18 the person responsible for your transfer from this elite. 25 I have not spoken directly to General Westmoreland, except,

Transcription

1 s8 House - cross (In open court 2 THE COURT: Seat the jury, please. 3 (Jury present) 4 THE COURT: You may proceed, Mr. Dorsen. 5 CROSS EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. DORSEN: 7 Q. Colonel House, when you spoke to Mr. Ad ams did 8 you tell him t hat you considereo the estimates division to 9 be -- branch to be an elite branch? 10 A. would you repeat the question. 11 Q. When you spoke to Mr. Adams in 1981 did you tell 12 him that you considered the estimates branch to be an elite 13 branch? 14 A. I can't recall, sir, whether I told him exactly 15 that, but I'm I very well might have because it was 16 considered an elite branch. 17 Q. Did you tell Mr. Adams whether you considered 18 the person responsible for your transfer from this elite 19 branch to be Lieutenant Colonel Daniel Graham? 20 A. I believe, sir, that I probably did, because 21 that is what I believe. 22 Q. Did you tell Mr. Adams whether or not yo u had 23 e ver spoken to General Westmoreland in your life? 24 A. I mayor may not have, sir, but to my knowledg e 25 I have not spoken directly to General Westmoreland, except, SOUTHERN DISTRICT RE POR TER\ U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y

2 bs8 House - cross perhaps, here, where we just said hello in the hall, but 2 while I was in Vietnam, I do not recall an instance where I 3 talked to him personally. However, I was at many briefings 4 where General Westmoreland was present. 5 Q. Did Mr. Adams ask you about those briefings in 6 detail? 7 A. He asked me, sir, in detail about briefings that 8 were held in the Tank, which I was privy to, or from the 9 time that I arrived in-country in August until I was 10 transferred to Phu Bai in mid-february, and that I pro~ably 11 did mention to him, because I was privy to those daily 12 briefings and did go to the daily briefings, that at times 13 General Westmoreland was there almost all the time General 14 Davidson was there~ and almost al1 ' the time Colonel Graham 15 was there. 16 Q. Did you tell Mr. Adams that you did not believe 17 that General Westmoreland took a particular interest in supervising intelligence matters? A. I don't believe that I would have ever used those words to Mr. Adams. Q. Did you state the substance of those words? A. To my knowledge, I would not say those in substance, though that would project, sir, that conclusion. Q.,Did you tell Mr. Adams that Lieutenant Colonel Goche thought highly of Lieutenant Colonel Graham? SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTER,). U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N. Y _1020

3 bs8 House - cross A. would you repeat that question, please. 2 Q. Yes. Did you tell Mr. Adams whether Lieutenant 3 Colonel Goche thought highly of Lieutenant Colonel Graham? 4 A. I don't know that I would have mentioned in 5 substance that to Mr. Adams because I do not recall of an 6 instance when Colonel Goche confided in me as to his 7 personal position on Colonel Graham. 8 Q. Didn't you tell Mr. Adams, Colonel House, that 9 Colonel Graham was Lieutenant Colonel Goche's idol? 10 A. I mayor may not have used, sir, exactly those 11 words. I feel sure that I did mention to Mr. Adams that 12 Colonel Graham only surrounded himself with "yes people" 13 people who would certainly not tell him anything that he 14 didn't want to hear, and in that context, I may very weil 15 have used substantially those words. 16 Q. Did you know a Captain John Stewart d uring that 17 period? 18 A. The name is familiar but I'm sorry I do not 19 recall. 20 Q. Do you recall telling Mr. Adams that John 21 Stewart was brilliant? 22 A. I do not recall using those words describing a 23 John Stewart. 24 Q. Would you describe John Stewart as a " yes man"? 25 to Colonel Graham in your conversations with Mr. Adams? SOUTHERN D ISTR ICT REPORTERS. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y

4 bs8 House - cross ~. Since I'm drawing a complete blank as to who 2 John Stewart is, I mayor may not have used those words in 3 describing him, sir. 4 Q. I'd like to s~ow you exhibit 109, page 14, and 5 look at that document, and you are free to look at the 6 whole thing, and I ask you whether that refreshes your 7 recollection as to whether you told Mr. ~dams that John 8 Stewart was brilliant? 9 Does that refresh your recollection as to 10 whether you told Mr. ~dams in 1981 that John Stewart was 11 brilliant? I would direct your attention to the top of 12 page 14? 13 ~. I'm getting there. 14 MR. BOtES: Could we approach the bench for a 15 moment? 16 THE COURT: Yes. 17 (~t the sidebar) 18 MR. BOIES: I apologize for requesting the 19 conference. I had thought reading this that where you saw 20 the name Fay Hewlitt on page 13 that this was reporting an 21 interview with that person. Mr. ~dams tells me that that 22 is not so, so I apologize for taking the court's t i me. 23 (Open court) 24 THE COURT: What is the question that you want 25 the witness to answer? SOUTHERN DISTR ICT REPORTER S. U.S. COURTHO USE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y. _

5 bs8 House - cross MR. DORSEN: Whether it refreshes his 2 recollection as to whether he told Sam Adams that John 3 Stewart was brilliant. 4 A. I'm sorry. In all honesty, it does not refresh 5 my memory at all. 6 Q. Have you ever seen exhibit 109 before today? 7 A. I have seen some pages of 109 since I've arrived 8 here to testify. I had not seen it prior to that time. 9 Q. Who showed it to you, 109? 10 A. The attorney. 11 Q. Attorney for CBS? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Now, did you tell Mr. Adams whether you believed 14 that General Creighton Abrams was responsible for anything? 15 A. I really do not.recall whether I mentioned what 16 General Abrams was responsible for. I very well could have. 17 General Abrams was the commander of MACV Forward when I wa s 18 transferred to phu Bai on the 15 of February, and I worked 19 very closely with General Abrams while he was commander of 20 MACV Forward. 21 Q. Did you think -- sorry. 22 THE COURT: What is the word you're saying, MACV 23 THE WITNESS: MACV Forward, FOR WAR D. It 24 was the initial title for the group that went to Phu Bai. 25 Later it became Provisional Corps Vietnam and then SOUTHERN D ISTR ICT REPO RTER'), U.S. COURTHO US E FOLEY SQUA RE. N EW YORK. N.Y. _

6 bs8 House - cross immediately after I left it then became the 24 Corps, sir. 2 It went through those stages. 3 Q. You were talking about General Abrams, Colonel 4 House. 5 A. Yes. To my knowledge, I had no contact with 6 General Abrams prior to on or about the 15 of February. 7 Q. Would it be accurate to say that your experience 8 with General Abrams from on or a~out 15 February 1968 was 9 favorable? 10 A. I would say it was outstandingly favorable. If 11 I could elaborate on that, I would like to say something 12 about General Abrams. 13 Q. Please do. 14 A. General Abrams had, I thought, a lot of insight 15 as to what the war from the Tet offensive -- during the Tet 16 offensive, what it was all about. Quite often, General 17 Abrams would come to the shop that I was responsibl e for 18 and ask me persona l ly what I and the analysts that I was 19 responsible for felt about different situations. 20 The Battle of Hue was going on at the time. We 21 had a lot of good intelligence coming in. There was a lot 22 of pressure on General Abrams and I felt that General 23 Abrams was extremely sensitive to intelligence conclusions 24 and estimates that we were arriving at and did an 2S outstanding job in directing forces in the I Corps area SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. N EW YORK. N.Y. _

7 bs8 House - cross while I was with him. 2 Q. Did you form an opinion, Colonel House, of 3 General Abram's integrity? 4 MR. BOIES: Objection, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: I guess I'll have to ask you to come 6 up. 7 (At sidebar) 8 THE COURT: Yes. 9 MR. BOIES: I think it is not only outside of 10 the scope of the direct examination and I am not sure 11 within the witness' compete nce, but I don't think it's 12 relevant to anything. 13 General Abrams has not been a witness whose 14 credibility has been attacked. 15 On other circumstances where we have tried to 16 introduce e v idence of somebody's integrity, plaintiff has 17 successfully objected, except under certain specific 18 limitations-- 19 THE COURT: Remind me, who was that and when? 20 My perception was that an awful lot of that evidence had 21 come in. 22 MR. BOIES: Yes, a lot has come in; for examp l e, 23 after somebody's credibility was attacked, somebody who h ad 24 been a witness and whose credibility had been attacked, 25 like Allen, it came in. SOUTHERN D ISTRICT REPO RTER ';;, U.S. COURTHOUSE FO LEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y. _

8 8 House - cross The court may recall that we discussed the 2 question of Mr. Zigman's credibility. 3 THE COURT: I think that what may abbreviate 4 this is -- maybe Mr. Dorsen can answer your first point as 5 to whether it's beyond the scope of the direct examination. 6 I don't think there would be a problem as to 7 you're asking whether he spoke to Adams about the 8 credibility of General Abrams. 9 MR. DORSEN: I can start with that and see where 10 it takes us. 11 THE COURT: I think Mr. Boies is probably 12 correct that it is beyond the scope of his direct. 13 MR. DORSEN: I believe he testified and used the 14 term MACV command, and General Abrams was the number two 15 person in the military chain of command 16 THE COURT: He used the word MACV command in 17 what context, dishonesty? 18 MR. DORSEN: Yes. 19 MR. BOIES: For one thing, the experience about 20 which he is now testifying is experience that began on 21 February 2 or thereafter. 22 I don't think there's any foundation that this 23 witness had any experience with General Abrams prior to the 24 Tet offensive. 25 MR. DORSEN: It goes to this witness' SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPO RTER S. V. S. COURTHOUSE FO LEY SQUARE, NEW YORK. N.Y. _

9 bs8 House - cross credibility, your Honor. This witness has made charges at 2 least verbally to Mr. Adams as to General Westmoreland. He 3 thinks highly of General Abrams. 4 It casts serious doubt on his credibility that 5 he is bypassing the number two man who was intimately 6 involved with all of these events and singling out General 7 Westmoreland. 8 MR. BOIES: His experience with Abrams comes 9 after the period in controversy. 10 MR. DORSEN: But before the conversation with 11 Mr. Adams. 12 MR. BOIES: Yes, but I'm saying, his experience 13 that he was relating to Mr. Adams, and about which I 14 questioned him, was an experience which relates to a per i od 15 prior to the Tet offensive. 16 MR. DORSEN: I don't think you can 17 compartmentalize peoples integrity. 18 MR. BURT: Not before the destruction of bhe 19 data base. 20 MR. BOIES: That has been unavailing to me 21 recently as I tried to introduce evidence most recently 22 from Mr. Olsen about the period following the Tet offensi ve. 23 MR. DORSEN: Mr. Boies made -- the witness made 24 charges about the MACV command, and I think it also goes to 25 his credibility. SOUTH ERN DISTR ICT REPORTER S. U. S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQ UARE. NEW YORK. N.Y. _ 791.J020

10 s8 House - cross THE COURT: You're saying that the witness made 2 charges, or at least testified to his -- you're saying it 3 shows bias because the witness has testified that he told 4 Adams that certain selected persons, Graham, Westmoreland 5 and I forget whether he named other ones, were responsible 6 for what he couched as dishonest reporting, and you're 7 saying that the persons who were in charge at MACV during 8 that relevant period included, as the Deputy Commanding 9 General, Abrams, and he did not include Abrams in his list. 10 You're saying that his not including Abrams in 11 his list when Abrams was the Deputy COMUSMACV is evidence 12 of bias since he didn't have a basis for distinguishing who 13 was doing what that he wasn't privy to. 14 You are saying that he selected certain people 15 that he wanted to name and left off people he dinn't want 16 to name when he was not privy to what was going on a t the 17 highest levels? 18 MR. DORSEN: That is correct, your Honor. 19 THE COURT: How do you answer that? 20 MR. BOIES: If I could, meaning no disrespect, 21 that is what I th ink the court has from time to time cal"led 22 a creative argument. 23 THE COURT: Mr. Boies, Mr. Dorsen can be 24 creative too. Your implication is that when I have used 25 the word "creative argument" it was as a preface to an SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK, N.Y

11 ::ls8 House - cross adverse ruling? 2 MR. BOIES: Yes, your Honor. 3 My first problem with the argument is that his 4 experience with General Abrams comes at MACV Forward not at 5 the MACV command headquarters. 6 His problem with what was happening with the 7 estimates was a problem at MACV command headquarters. His 8 experience with General Abrams is, I think, only experience 9 that dealt at the 50-called MACV Forward only relating to 10 the way General Abrams dealt with the Tet offensive. 11 I don't think that there's any inconsiste ncy 12 between holding those two views. 13 If what the plaintiff wants to establish that 14 this witne ss has a high regard for General Abrams, he has 15 alre ady e s tabl ished that he's had a high regard for General 16 Abrams. 17 I simply don't think that this witness' post-tet 18 evaluation of General Abram's integrity is properly either 19 within the scope or within any relevant issue. 20 MR. DORSEN: I have made my argument, your Honor. 21 THE COURT: I think his very point is that he 22 didn't have pre-tet experi e nce with any of these people as 23 to what they were doing in the command circles, but when he 24 named persons who he labeled as dishonest to Adams, he 25 included some and didn't include others, and Mr. Dorsen is SO UTHERN D ISTRICT RE PORT ERIi. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLE Y SQUARE. NEW YORK. N. Y. _

12 bs8 House - cross saying this is evidence that he is biased against the ones 2 that he has named. 3 I think that it was a creative argument and I 4 will overrule the objection. 5 (Open court) 6 Q. Colonel House, do you remember the question? 7 A. Would you repeat the question. 8 Q. Did you have an opinion of General Abram's 9 integrity? 10 MR. BOIES: May we hav e a time frame, your 11 Honor? 12 Q. Did you form an opinion of General Abram's 13 integrity prior to the time you spoke to Mr. Adams? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What was that? 16 MR. BOIES: May we have a time frame when he 17 formed the opinion? 18 THE COURT: You may examine. The objection is 19 overruled, unless you want to ask it. 20 A. From the time that I first met General Abrams, 21 which was sometime around the 15 of February, until he 22 departe d the command, a nd I absolutely do not know what 23 date that is, I found him to have the highest integrity and 24 it was a honor to work under his command. 25 I know it might take some time, but I'd like to SOUTHERN DiSTRICT REPORTER S. u.s. COURTHOUS E FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y

13 )s8 House - cross give an example, a specific example of how General Abrams 2 used intelligence information -- 3 Q. Colonel House, I think it is beyond the scope of 4 my questioning? 5 A. All right. 6 Q. You knew, did you not, that General Abrams was 7 General Westmoreland's deputy in August, September, October, 8 November, December of 1967? 9 A. Do I know that now, sir, or did I know it then? 10 Q. Did you know it then? 11 A. No, I did not. 12 Q. Did you know it in 1981 when you spoke to Mr. 13 Adams? 14 A. To my knowledge, I did not know it then. 15 Q. Did you know what -- did you have an 16 understanding as of 1981 what General Abram's position was 17 in MACV prior to February 15, 1968? 18 A. NO, I did. not. 19 Q. Did you notice how many stars General Abrams had 20 on his shoulders? 21 THE COURT: When? 22 Q. As of February 15, A. Two, three or four stars on each shoulder, which 24 is a lot of stars. 25 Q. Now, I would like to direct your attention to SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y. _

14 bs8 House - cross the report you wrote for Lieutenant Colonel Goche. Were 2 any of the other Corps analysts transferred or fired? 3 A. Not to my knowledge. 4 Q. Did you read any of their reports? 5 A. No, I did not. 6 Q. Colonel House, isn't it true that frequently 7 special intelligence provides information that is 8 inconsistent with collateral intelligence? For example, on 9 the movement of an enemy unit. I direct your attention to 10 the period A. I would have to say that there are times that 12 there are movements of enemy units that are not reflected 13 in the special intelligence information, but seldom is 14 there special intelligence informatio~ o~tained which does 15 not reflect the movement. 16 Q. So would it be accurate to state that there are 17 times when collateral intelligence would indicate that an 18 enemy unit was one place and more up-to-date special 19 intelligence would indicate that it was somewhere else? 20 MR. BOIES: I object to the form of the 21 question., your Honor THE COURT: MR. BOIES:,THE COUR'T: What aspect? On vagueness, your Honor. If you understand it you may answer. 25 A. I am sure that there have been and will be SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE, NEW YORK. N,Y

15 )s8 House - cross instances where that situation could exist. 2 Q. NoW, Colonel House, it was true, was it not,.in that if an enemy unit was just across the border in 4 South Vietnam and not included in the MACV Order of Battle, 5 it was nevertheless identified in official reports, is that 6 a correct statement? 7 A. What comes to my memory is the exact opposite of 8 what you just described. For example, in the Battle ofkhe 9 Sanh, which was prior to Tet, and approximately in the 10 August-September time frame, as I recall, -- no, it was 11 after that -- I don't recall the month, but it was prior to 12 Tet -- Khe Sanh was not very far from the Demilitarized 13 Zone that separates North and South Vietnam. 14 There were units present there that we could not, 15 to my recollection, insert into the I Corps order of battle 16 because we were told they were so close to North Vietnam 17 that within a matter of hours they could return there and 18 rea~ly did not pose a threat to the forces in South Vietnam. 19 There was an example. I do not recall the 20 magnitude of the example, but we did have evidence of new 21 troops, new units actually in South Vietnam that we were 22 unable to place in the I corps order of battle summary. 23 Q. The question I asked was a little different, 24 Colonel House. The question was, if the unit was near the 25 border and was not included in I Corps, isn't it a fact SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y. _

16 bs8 House - cross that it would have been included in other reports of MACV 2 in Saigon and in other reports of MACV sent to the I Corps 3 area? 4 MR. BOIES: Objection, your Honor. 5 THE COURT: What grounds? 6 MR. BOIES: Form and foundation. 7 THE COURT: As to foundation, you may answer to 8 the extent that you have knowledge of the answer to the 9 question, and if you don't have knowledge you may say so. 10 As to the form, you included two parts of the 11 question at the end; you said included in other reports and 12 something about something that was sent elsewhere. 13 I suggest you break that apart. 14 Q. Colonel House, wasn't it the case that if a unit 15 near the Khe Sanh -- near Khe Sanh and near the border 16 THE COURT: Let me stop you a second. 17 Are you saying near the border but outside the 18 border? 19 MR. DORSEN: I'm saying near the border. 20 THE COURT: Near the border whether inside or 21 outs ide? 22 MR. DORSEN: Yes, your Honor. 23 THE COURT: All right. 24 Q. That a unit near the border would be included 25 either in the! I Corps order of battle summary or in a North SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, U,S, COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK, N.Y. _

17 bs8 House - cross Vietnam or Demilitarized Zone order of battle summary? 2 THE COURT: If you know. 3 A. I am very uncomfortable with answering that 4 question because I really do not recall, sir. 5 Q. Are you saying that you do not recall whether if 6 a unit is across the border in the Demilitarized Zone or 7 North Vietnam, whether it would be included in'any report 8 of MACV? 9 MR. BOIES: Objection, your Honor. 10 THE COURT: Overruled. 11 A. What I am saying, sir, is that I think you're 12 asking a black an'd white question, and I am not sure that 13 there is a qualified yes or no unqualified answer to your 14 question. 15 Q. Wasn't it the case in 1967, Colonel House, that 16 the commanders in the field had all the intelligence that 17 the Tank had on enemy units in their area? 18 A. I think that, sir, that question is much, much 19 too broad. There are a lot of commanders in the field and 20 not all commanders are privy to all of the information that 21 was available into the Tank. 22 Q. Let me narrow the question. 23 A. And, furthe.rmore, you couldn't -- a lot of 24 commanders in the field would not have the facilities to 25 secure all of the information that was available into the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTER'. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y

18 bs8 House - cross Tank. 2 O. Let me narrow the question for you, Colonel 3 House. Wasn't it the case that at least some of the 4 commanders in I Corps would have had whatever intelligence 5 was available in the Tank in Saigon? 6 A. Since I was not a commander 7 MR. BOIES: I object to the form of the 8 question, your Honor. 9 THE COURT: I'm sorry? 10 MR. BOIES: I object to the form of the 11 question., your Honor. 12 THE COURT: You may answer to the extent that 13 you're aware, to the extent that you know the answer to the 14 question. 15 A. I think the answer to your question is that 16 there were probably some commanders in the field that 17 probably might have had all the information available to 18 them as they did in Saigon in the Tank. 19 O. Colonel House, when you discussed the Tet 20 offensive with Mr. Adams, and I am changing the subject, 21 did you tell Mr. Adams that the populous did not in fact 22 rise up as had b~en predicted by the documents that you 23 discussed with Mr. Adams? 24. A. I did discuss that topic with Mr. Adams. What I 25 told Mr. Adams was that we had several high-level captured SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y

19 bs8 House - cross documents which, when translated, in effect said that the 2 reason for the next offensive would be to lead the populous 3 to rise up and throw out the foreigners, Americans, the 4 Koreans, and that as I personally observed the Tet 5 offensive as it was being played out around Saigon, from 6 the end of January until I departed Saigon for Phu Bai on 7 or about the 15 of February, I felt that the enemy had made 8 a strategic blunder because we had good solid SI 9 information which showed the deployment of North Vietnamese 10 regular forces around Saigon. 11 The enemy in this document stated that it would 12 be the South Vietnamese, the Vietcong, the South Vietnamese 13 who were fighting as Vietcong in the South, that would lead 14 the populous to do this. 15 I am not sure whether this is part of that 16 document or documents or whether any next remarks are 17 conclusions that we had. So I'll have to qualify it in 18 that respect. But the next step was that if the North 19 Vietnamese, for example, were engaged in combat around 20 Saigon, in a major role, then the South Vietnamese would 21 not rise up and do what they wanted them to do. 22 The mistake that I observed personally was that 23 the enemy, because they did not commit their reserves of 24 North Vietnamese regular forces that were around Saigon 25 made a tactical mistake -- thank God. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, U,S, COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE, NEW YORK, N,Y, Q

20 bs8 House - cross Colonel House, didn't you tell Mr. Adams that 2 the enemy's biggest mistake was in believing that there 3 would be a popular uprising? 4 A. I mayor may not have, sir, said exactly those 5 words, but in substance I would have said that. 6 Q. Now, you were in IV Corps, is that correct, as 7 an analyst, or responsible for IV Corps, in the fall of ? 9 A. I believe I have stated, sir, that I was 10 responsible for that one month period in the estimates 11 branch for IV Corps, but when I was transferred to ClCV, I 12 was responsible, sir, for the I Corps order of battle. 13 Q. Did you tell. Mr. Adams that ClCV's product was 14 quite dated and that CICV was sort of a historical file? 15 A. I mayor may not, sir, have used exactly those 16 words. 17 Q. Did you use the substance of those words to Mr. 18 Adams? 19 A. I mayor may not in substance have said 20 something like that, sir. 21 o. Could you look at exhibit 109, page 15, and I 22 ask you if that refreshes your recollection as to whether 23 you told Mr. Adams that CICV's information was quite dated 24 and that CICV was sort of a historical file. 25 A. Of course, you would have to ask Mr. ~dams SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE, NEW YORK. N.Y. _ 791_1020

21 bs8 House - cross exactly wbla,t he meant in his notes. 2 Q. But I'm asking you, Colonel House, what you told 3 Mr. Adams. 4 A. Probably what I was saying to Mr. ~dams that 5 might have had him include these remarks in his notes had 6 to do with the location of enemy forces, because, in all 7 probability, 'the location of enemy forces was more updated 8 using the SI information that was available to us than 9 special dockets, or any other data that might take time to 10 translate and produce. 11 Q. Did you tell Mr. Adams that the special 12 intelligence was the most up-to-date intelligence available 13 on the enemy? 14 A. I don't tbink I would have ever said exactly 15 that, because when you said "information on the enemy" sir, 16 that covers a very, very broad spectrum. 17 If you would like to be more specific, I would 18 be glad to address your point on that. 19 MR. DORSEN: No further questions. 20 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 21 BY MR. BOIES: 22 Q. Colonel House, did you have access to 51 or 23 special intelligence THE COURT: One moment, please. 25 Q. Colonel House, did you have access to 51 or SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, U,S, COURTHOUSE FOLEY SqUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y,

22 x.!r Q sj;;ijx;; t ",~-. bss House - redirect 9731 < 1 SpeCi,.,JHhll\l'.lligence throughout the period of time that you 2 were'.1-ln. Vietnam, the fall of I did. 4 MR. BOIES: No more questions, your Honor. 5 MR. DORSEN: No questions, your Honor. 6 THE COURT: Members of the jury, that brings us 7 to the close for the day and for the week. I am about to S excuse you until next Tuesday morning. Monday is a holiday. 9 We will resume at 10:00 O'clock next Tuesday morning. 10 I want to remind you, and this becomes 11 particularly critical as we get closer and closer to the 12 time when the case will be submitted to you for your 13 deliberations and your verdict. 14 You are absolutely barred from discussing the 15 case with anyone. It is most important that no person have 16 any opportunity to ~nfluence your judgment in ~ny fashion 17 by discussing this case with you. 18 So, as I have told you again and again, it would 19 be a most serious breach of your responsibilities for you 20 to discuss this case at all with anyone. 21 Secondly, I want to remind you, as I have said 22 several times in the past, that while I have not forbidden 23 you from looking at the press or being aware of the press 24 on the case, it is not something ~hat I encourage you to do 25 and it is something that, as we grow close to the time of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y. _

23 bs8 HOuse - redirect your deliberations, becomes more.and more of a potential 2 problem. 3 It is desirable that you avoid looking at the 4. press, seeing what the press has to say about this case. 5 But what is most important is that if you do, you 6 absolutely guard yourselves from being influenced in any 7 way by what you may see, hear, read in the press. 8 You are the ones who have the ringside seat to 9 all of the evidence in the case. When someone writes in 10 the press, if they are commenting on this case, it is very 11 likely that whoever is doing the commenting has his point 12 of view and is eager to persuade anyone who reads it to 13 adhere to that perso~'s point of view, and you must 14 absolutely guard yourselves from being influenced in any 15 way by any such materials. 16 I strongly re~ommend to you, particularly now as 17 we get close to the end of the case, that if you are 18 curious to say to see what's in the press, I recommend to 19 you that you clip it or have somebody else clip it and put 20 it aside to read after you have completed your 21 deliberations, because that way you will most effectively 22 guard yourselves against being influenced by other peoples' 23 commentaries. 24 All right. I wish you a pleasant weekend and 25 holiday and look forward to seeing you Tuesday morning at SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE, NEW YORK, N.Y

24 'bs8 House - redirect &r&ya,i l :'c1!'hc:::k when we will resume the trial. 2 (Adjourned to 10:00 a.m., February 19, 1985.) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS. U.S. COURTHOUSE FOLEY SQUARE. NEW YORK. N.Y

25 SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPOR TER '\. US COURTHOUSE FOLEY SOIJARF NFW ynrn" N v _ 701 In.,n NITNESS INDEX 9734 Name Direct Cross Redirect Recross Gains B. Hawkins (Resumed) Norman R. House EXHIBIT INDEX Exhibit 213-C 1839 Identification In Evidence