Witness. Patrick Sarsfield (P.S.) O'Hegarty, Highfield House, Highfield Road, Rathgar, Dublin. Identity. Member of Supreme Council of I.R.B. Subject.

Transcription

1 RONN COSANTA. BUREAU OF MLTARY HSTORY, STATEMENT BY WTNESS DOCUMENT NO. W.S. 840 Witness Patrick Sarsfield (P.S.) O'Hegarty, Highfield House, Highfield Road, Rathgar, Dubl. dentity. Member Supreme Council.R.B. Subject. rishmen London Civil Service Sn Fe period, Conditions, any, Stipulated by Witness Nil File No. S.49 Form B.S.M.2

2 DOCUMENT B RSHMEN N THE LONDON CVL SERVCE N THE SNN FÉN PEROD 22ND APRL This document is hwritg author, Mr. Patrick Sarsfield O'Hegarty, is signed by himself.

3 Motime London cool Louise same his Peard so much more Satery Garlic rel London sion - league, Fei, Turt L Movement or was done & was by, dependent support for, ce limerick, but some lowly account re ma, madly way be terest. when went London moved arrived 1902 wise future found guy for first time enre till or counties, There are no chapes from a about missed wise English county organization was all else. desmond was everybody Everybody he, much same meal concent that hold very tryelbe has not no cork, clear, no kg, nor but that tip, hilod, cleaps from Belfast were just saure Derry arenbs dides re were amy bery, any but clo remember rish, valf beg strall The more varied owns where an ulsternan unwake me, Sarachill, " crock is form. heary," one that has et expharried small postion not 9 London, comm. come remember et at, but y ever all good, not say may sow. one re Arthur mr thgs happen, esr go because cosg trela for Mort chafer louants - y ends, amteard subbg clue & Talyears, falad jugot antyellke. knew were mann erril clears, postion as som Learned Drver Clemtes, Curtnus & Excia Oppiers, kept som. from avery us. a members what en ten big "me major esterhuant" - don't know wheeler deactivation behd he major marion stablestment

4 still bolds alive 75% were Post Office Sorters, on were plan centre way "digged" conversant proximity Hat is conversant employment, were city employed contral letter wm centre parish Office at mount Pleasant, as varg deste more who her employed District Office Mount Pleasant how buld me. had no experce word conditions n but fice, was were gan my l sometimes dispult that a number f sopng fice was anti lost, as wade brg as dficult & Poniths les loys, never than move pleasant loy referee But or mount marry, far that, outside that, we condition s we omens were holevable enough. an perennial expennce, my A Louise was wells favourable clear Lentary's Officer Jannic Major estableishement, horn 27 day warvg days holiday 7 found what on colleague ce London supplementary number was case a leran year by superiors exputa an rishman be unnaval not be cround male soon by used atives 7 what from solay or day coosre on days were be alwort well amy liberty was a very guick wortee, a en uldon not nork occupuied me were wan re warren day's by so was some nabit all: found

5 we an how a e cund late, half covg may p out terest like it. was dodgg felt time Trennany 12 remember The Sarl a lay S.A.A, League centre Ereml swa chorads, Lenetary churman few a br, so that holden fit 1 bed behan se before 2, ready ledlor pit t mc fice before but time was dream at supposed it has artnealy were dream untie fit 11 did med baum else was ever a, not really noty late, currn Owic were end at me, Suzzically, at as can may be, a seyord, he smeld

6 cute actule Sim Fer, Signed before his a city about call Robert me playg force argug by as was admitted me authortg, 9 corner, Signed. was he was afraid were have be n bed as ded. was Sir Smith, Babgn [He Henry out ex Colonel was thy, Swann] Pority had kept a contue satl not had wods that declaration leary half, me Lev, while was dulnation arber why exhercix He said me, no srummed sue half it who so was ashg derlyal, lunie somebody what snytis was wolied deslayat ony hela what could be extg government depended on a model cuie lewant a long as was ce Leonard. added what 6 has brown mc

7 Government did not Lolic press ackern any prudence miss Babgn Smith when be but me wells. t should followg but be remaed his jaward an undertably him, as alhust dirmal. He was me was will me home a me but onle me geat cluarhe a that no noher at all wye hyhed but wet he could not do what. Fally, be taken, said him would come not him food an give would not say undertablly, be dimed what be rybt not conte what son untile aga it what had no devie Would tabe it mac under an because, He seye it was said "Ell tabe not an un undertablly" about said " don't sive it on sood" not ended it. what is wabullian but it effect, suppose we was not fact, phione just elepped out angement be hen it aughed be came not. But evlarge how tall Franly did not want be noted soeped, havg we members unless be had a job, lovg we any - ae what c polite job no my this holded partlarg l me ver been ten - what eves not it from a chambers. detrituib We was is signed not late, when can fally 1945 ulg pearnel not last over jean London, it was condult reard. t boro a "Serious lay Offence" read nik Furth's on h, Bobgn what but anor reged sayg him undertatg, what had anor date 1910 last one neade sayg conplanet was where no action was Tob, Like more how read or don't know how cause file, be unders oppoted portmorn Queenswn 1913, 7 it be what wer had wendone been a new lenebery, what somehow conduel was is not gannward ten Proudhon has recommended. But at any

8 mate Queenswn without ivnbent September 1913 got was re when Great Loss brown out August 1914 on money Saturday August 8a went cork, on when alned 7.30 a found is onle me underlake at ones howgray duty a an amstant at sunways ger will Swrensbury, phone me message my onle, but he was we call. did wastg onle so, he said he wanted conf wiss what was report ane, orlu him fulfen this was c genne ned, be around me & ge, was aged go, left cork g me had luth Tom & havenport night tra, Clarke, what vached Strensbury said Tom Monday. still was double but what it was not c more Genne 'd rege repers him lunnes an had not wen begun. But confg ten got critisn Head Clark Suwayer's Shreensbury what was rema hee end sylad Owic we capitrout evan. went don London at just opperhulty san Mc Owic be said me what was ficer had fire him 24 hours me out rel otterw felt y ame ad "near ault me you spike rel, not r was need nortblrutes gemae called that Owic how because staff bg up, He it could not be said he would l me bach helped. n me was ms wer about 0 had (" year") be conut will what. The home, above 7 also said, said that war fice but some mad done So never it some was January affallg thgs" 1915 was transport formally Welshford Molygolive, use was years special were, under police surveillance unable more out over Wilbert

9 special permimer from who Suwayers, had have a ireabes noh so what could me onle police loca above policeman about some foulsteted Post Office [A mor ld me n 1917 was allowed house this] fortnight post him 1918 allowed was aga was at home where, earl August, home. Commons carried a vrolut sort dierty oath at allejeams all servants, we know impose an by me judjoy debate until we be pat through, formally visited, what could not take as o alt callycae stables breach port faith that no position aunsay alleysanes was called when enhere leurie t was was at house lucy just now, & have cagally citle cusph. did was a my just, but wate be me onle spped summers he, it. But y beb on mols. My very decaulty a wolfe unprchter was date 13 August 1914 was August days afterwards, were we tho pro- ro amovement My keare annane dye te p me up last it a walke with 1920, cleaf day me not bro said me " believe am an shop portmoretn Queenn 1913/14," who was me Hegarty 26 He he me c warraet what admitted. he said, is dere for was was an old vernion years this, was ufied held was wm bee bay up durg rel why orten us was at by first n, we him broke, so were was apt movy so unbelievable. Post But Office always souylet was it On what clean Political soual leargs. Proccedgs endence att Dubl lenetery power Norway, is P.O. before hardge Commir, was illuwentry as me thod epproved, But what aged perented

10 impartiality by applied her was come freeman body Post Office Surveyors' Estatablisle people London knew will re wm wrong thgs done but y Surveyors re powerlen agast freeman, conduction more days PO Surveyor was a Feudal lord PO systern, n this distered All held was founed re be was all people, more powerful mor promothos was be Sautray nivessel we freeman Surveyors nor maid maud bias, opnnion, was prun e freeman it was polital relijion jobbgbion, a pastiven had y not aga prombte ceremdday ann freeman aleled, gut were but done, number, but was strith cimited by went furter remember was evatable could be proper job we was promoted Or rerued occores up before explaed all wm London Establislements Br - y was come me te case y did not live was expanied m But y were uvatle do anythg. PO were r Golan, vadetly We surveyors, powerful, y pennsted that was best man, althays because be rar better sunlield, even Sunday London come not ever ride mann. But at ay rats, ban easter hed probahide maud cheef colleagues London, Ps O Hegarty 22 Apl 53

11 rishmen London Civil Service Sn Fé Period. So much work all Sections - G.A.A., Gaelic League, Sn fé,.r.b. - rish rel Movement London was done by, arid was dependent on support from, Civil Servants, mostly lowly mor, that some account m may be terest. When went London 1902 mixed around with or rishmen found myself for first time contact with chaps from or counties. There was no county organization or club, everybody mixed with everybody else. Everybody discovered, o, that we were all very much same that cement that held us ger was not Cork, nor Clare, nor Kerry, nor Tipperary, but rel, that chaps from Belfast Derry were just same. The various accents didn't bor anybody, any more than y really do rish, but remember beg struck once when an Ulsterman remarked me, sarcastically, " back is heavy", had have it explaed me. Only a small fraction rish London, course, was movement at all, but y were all good, not say very good. Over re eir two thgs happened, eir you became conscious rel or you forgot rel alger. Most chaps knew were mor Civil Servants - boy clerks, assistant clerks, Post Office Sortg Clerks Telegraphists, so on. Second Division Clerks, Cusms Excise Officers, so on, kept away from us, as beg members what was n " major establishment" don't know wher distction between major mor establishments still holds. About 75% m were Post Office Sorters, y "digged" convenient proximity ir place employment, that is, convenient

12 (2) centre city for those employed Central Letter Office or Central Parcel Office at Mount Pleasant, various districts for those who were employed District Offices. Mount Pleasant ok bulk, m. had no experience workg conditions se fices, but gared that y were hard sometimes dficult that a number supervisg ficers were anti-rish, made thgs as dficult as possible for rish boys. But Mount Pleasant was never referred or than as Mount Misery, gared that, outside that, conditions or fices were lerable enough. My own personal experience London Civil Service was wholly favourable. As a Supplementary Clerk P.O. Secretary's Office was a member famous Major establishment, with a seven-hour day 27 workg days' holiday year. And found that my colleagues my superiors expected an rishman be unusual not be bound by rules regulations. soon found that so long as did my day's work well could take almost any liberty. was a very quick worker, it was seldom that my day's work occupied me more than three hours all; so that soon formed habit comg late, takg an hour a half for lunch dodgg out whenever felt like it. was for a long ti Treasurer G.A.A., member Gaelic League Choisde, Secretary Central Executive Sn Fé, Chairman a Branch, so that seldom got bed - between se readg - before 1 or 2, seldom got Office before or The le was supposed be drawn at 1O.4, but it was actually never drawn until got. t did not really need

13 (3) be, because nobody else was ever late. The book ficer would look at me, quizzically, at as case may be, as signed, he would say "Well, Hegarty, suppose may now draw le". And it was not uncommon for Prcipal Clerk, L.T.Horne, come speak me about a case, fd me out, leave a message, never ask me, when saw him, where was. got on well with everybody, everybody liked me, anythg outrageous that did was simply regarded as what might be expected from an rishman. was, fortunate my colleagues Telephone Branch Secretary's Office, especially two Chiefs, A.M.J. Ogilvie, afterwards Sir Andrew Second Secretary, L.T.Horne, Prcipal Clerk, afterwards Assistant Secretary. But know that or rishmen or fices were also treated with much dulgence - though hardly with as much as got later on, as must now record. n 1909, Secretary Department sent for me one day, with a bombshell. He had before him a copy Sn Fé, with a signed article by me argug, about physical force with Robert Lynd. admitted authorship, authorship, course, was n ld that he was afraid would have be dismissed. (He was Sir Henry Babgn Smith, an ex-colonial-governor). asked him why, potg out that had kept, would contue scrupulously keep, declaration secrecy that had made on enterg Service, which was only declaration asked me. He said no Government could keep it service somebody who was so actively disloyal, replied that was disloyal only English Government rel that could be entirely depended on be a model Civil Servant as long as was a Civil Servant. added that had broken law asked

14 (4) be brought court suggested that had not, re should be no persecution opion. He said fally that he would recommend my dismissal unless gave him an undertakg not repeat fence, he gave me till followg week thk it over. Before n somethg happened which gave me some more ammunition. A Civil Servant Board Education, who was a Socialist, made a public speech South London which he attacked Monarchy no uncerta terms advocated a Republic for Engl, by force need be The Home Secretary, questioned House, said that Government did not propose take any action. And produced this Babgn Smith when he sent for me followg week. t shook him, but he remaed his dem for an undertakg as alternative dismissal. He ld me that both Mr. Home Mr. Ogilvie had given me highest character urged that no notice at all be taken, but that he could not do that. Fally, said him that could not give him such an undertakg, went on say that had no desire be dismissed that he might take it that would not write that sort article aga under my own name. He seized on this said "'ll take that as an undertakg", which said " don't give it as such." And that ended it. suppose that was Machiavellian its effect, but it was not fact, phrase just slipped out argument he had accepted it before could enlarge on it. But frankly did not want be sacked, havg noted how little use any member was unless he had a job, havg noted particularly that a political job - only thg which would have been open me - three out four cases led a deterioration character. There was a sequel this later. When was

15 (5) fally retirg 1945 my personal file was sent over from London, it was my Conduct Record. t bore a long "Serious Offence" record red k Babgn Smith's own h, sayg that had given required undertakg, anor dated 1910 sayg that The rish Office had made anor complat, on which no action was taken. With se two Records on my file, don't know how came be appoted Postmaster Queenswn 1913, unless it be that re had meantime been a new Secretary, that somehow my conduct record was not examed when promotion was recommended. But at any rate got Queenswn without cident September, 1913, was re when Great War broke out August, On morng Saturday, August 8th, went up Cork, on my return about 7.30 found a wire orderg me undertake at once temporary duty as an Assistant Surveyor at Shrewsbury, ger with a phone message rg Mr. Ogilvie, that he was waitg fice for my call. did so, he said he wanted confirm wire that was report at once. asked him wher this was a genue need, he assured me yes, n agreed go. left Cork by night tra, had breakfast with Tom Clarke, reached Shrewsbury on Monday. said Tom that still had doubts but that it were not a genue move 'd resign return. This busess confg with an area had not n begun. But after got Shrewsbury Head Clerk Surveyor's Office let it out that was rema Engl till end war. went down London at first opportunity saw Mr. Ogilvie he said me that War Office had given him 24 hours get me out rel orwise y would arrest me "throw you Spike sl",

16 (6) that re was genue need North Wales or areas because staff beg called up, that it could not be helped. He said he would send me back when war was over. (" about a year"), had be content with that. Mr. Home, whom also saw, said that War Office had "gone mad done some appallg thgs. So re it was. n January, 1915, was formally transferred Welshpool Montgomeryshire, spent rest War years re, under police surveillance unable move out area without special permission from Surveyor, who had have a week's notice so that he could advise police. ( A local policeman whom facilitated about some Post Office matter ld me this). n 1917 was allowed home for a fortnight for first time 1918 was aga allowed home. was at home when, early August, House Commons carried a resolution directg Government impose an oath allegiance on all Civil. Servants, judgg by debate that it would be put through, formally resigned, statg that could not take an oath allegiance accusg Government a breach faith that no political allegiance was called for when entered Service. t was lucky was at home just n, for was legally liable conscription. They did, fact, issue a summons here, but wrote Mr. Ogilvie he spped it. But y behaved very decently on whole. My resignation was dated 13th August, 1914, was accepted a couple days afterwards. They worked out pro-rata amount annual leave due me paid me up last day it. And, 1919 or 1920, a chap walked rish Book Shop said me " believe you are Mr. Hegarty who was Postmaster Queenswn 1913/14",

17 (7) which admitted. He hed me a warrant for 26. This, he said, is due you for that year.on an old revision which was held up durg War has now been released, y asked us try fd you. was at time broke, never was money so apt so unbelievable. But Post Office always sought keep its proceedgs clear political or social leangs. On that pot evidence A.H.Norway, Dubl Secretary P.O., before Hardge Commission, is very illumatg as regards method approach. But what prevented impartiality beg applied here was local Freemason body Post Office Surveyor's Establishments. The people London knew well re were wrong thgs done but y were powerless agast combation Surveyors Freemasons. n those days P.O. Surveyor was a Feudal Lord P.O. system. n his district - all rel was governed by three districts - he was all powerful, more powerful matter promotions than Secretary here himself. And Surveyors Freemasons worked h h. The bias, my opion, was primarily a Freemason jobbg bias, it was political religious only a secondary fashion. They had now aga promote a non-freemason ability, get work done, but number such was strictly limited by that facr. f a Freemason was available could be propped up job he was promoted. On several occasions between explaed all this London Establishments Branch - y used come me with cases y did not like used expound m. But y were unable do anythg. The Surveyors P.O. system were n credibly powerful, y persisted

18 (8) that X was best man, although Y seemed be rar better qualied, even Secretary London would not override m. But, at any rate, have nothg but gratitude wards my Chiefs colleagues London, (sd.) P. S. O'Hegarty, 22nd April, 1953.