You were writing about the oppressed people and whether they could count on the Liberal Party as an 10

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1 (N. MANDELA) industries, certain monopolies. I have never known that to be the policy of the Liberal Party. Was the A.N.C. in June 1953 already completely wedded to the idea of the economic reforms you have just mentioned now? Look, this article was not written "by 5 the African National Congress, it was written by me. I wasn't expressing the point of view of the African National Congress. I was expressing my ideas. You were writing about the oppressed people and whether they could count on the Liberal Party as an 10 ally? Yes. Would these sentiments of yours have been inconsistent with Congress viewpoint? I don't think they were inconsistent, but all I know, the African National Congress may have expressed a different point of view. As 15 a matter of fact, the National President of the African National Congress did not see eye to eye with me on this question, he had his own view of the importance of the Liberal Party as far as the struggle was concerned, his view was altggether differjnt from mine, and that is just 20 but natural. I was expressing my own point of view as I assessed the Liberal Party on the basis of the experiences which I personally had had and on the basis of literature which was available. He was in contact with a different type of liberal, perhaps the most liberal-liberal, and 2 5 because of the experiences he had had with those liberals he had a different view as to their importance. In - at all events, one thing is clear. When you used the t~rm 'revolutionary democracy" here, you meant something more than a system having universal 30 franchise? Ṭ h~n I used the term revolutionary democracy

2 (N. MANDELA) I used it in the sense of a democracy which embraces all the people of South Africa in contradistinction to the meaning attached to the word democracy by Dr. Malan. Correct me if I am wrong, I thought your answer a few moments ago was that apart from political 5 rights, it implied economic reforms, nationalisation? In the sense of the Freedom Charter, yes. Inrepeat my question to you, it is clear, is it not, that in using this term you implied mora than simply universal franchise? Listen, I used the term 10 in the sense of the demands set out in the Freeom Charter. That to me, the realisation of those demands, is a revolutionary democracy. Now let us look a little further in this article, you say "Rather than attempt the costly, dubious 15 and dangerous task of crushing the non-european mass movement by force, they would seek to divert it with fine words and promises and to divide it by giving concessions and bribes to a privileged minority", and you have in parentheses "to suitably qualified voters perhaps", and you go 20 on, "It becomes clear "therefore that the high sounding principles enunciated by the Liberal Party, though apparently democratic and progressive in form, are essentially reactionary in content. They stand not for the freedom of the people, but for the adoption of more subtle systems 25 of oppression and exploitation." Is it your view today still that the Liberal Party stands for subtle systems of oppression and exploitation? Well, since I wrote this article quite a lot has happened which has brought the Liberal Party quite close to us. 30 Certainly as far as franchise is concerned?

3 (N. MANDELA) Yes. And insofar as they aondemn discrimination, they have come closer. BY MR. JUSTICE RUMPFF J How is this relevant? This question about whether the Literal Party is still in the same position 5 today, how are we interested in that? BY MR. HOEXTER s To this extent, My Lord, it may be the view of the witness that the attitude of that party on questions of ecnnomic reforms is still the same. 10 BY MR. JUSTICE RUMPFF : How are we interested in the Liberal Party's constitution or objects today? BY MR. HOEXTER i As Your Lordship pleases, I won't pursue thatl5 matter further. One further question on this page, I am reading from line 21, "They.." - that is the Liberal Party - stands for the retention of the cheap labour system and of the subordinate colonial status of the non-european masses, together with the Nationalist government whose 20 class interests are identical with theirs." What interests had you in mind when you wrote this, "class interests that were identical" as far as the Nationalist Government and the Liberal Party is concerned? The Liberal Party BY MR. JUSTICE I.UMPFF s Didn't he say that he personally was in favour of a classless society? BY MR. HO-SCTER : As Your Lordship pleases. Now I want to 30 refer to two further documents found in your possession and

4 (N. MANDELA) ask you for your comment very briefly, please. The first one is N.R.M. 76. My Lords, portions of this exhibit were read in at page 6992, the portion I wish to refer to has not been read into the record, it is a matter of a single paragraph only. Would you look please at N.R.M. 76, on 5 page 29 o" this booklet. I want to ask you whether jm your personal opinion - this book is On Lenin, Speeches and Articles by J. Stalin. Would you look at the foot of page 29, there is an article entitled Confidence in the Masses, It says, "Theoreticians and leaders of parties 10 who know the history of nations, who have studied the history of revolutions from beginning to end are sometimes afflicted with an unpleasant disease. This disease is known as 'fear of the masses', lack of confidence in the creative ability of the masses. Sometimes on this ground 15 leaders adopt a certain aristocratic pose towards the masses who although not versed in the history of revolutions are destined to break up the old and build the new. The fear that the elements may br-ak forth, that the masses may break up too much, the desire to play the role of 20 nurses, to try to teach the masses from books but who refuse to learn from the masses, such is the basis of this sort of aristocratic attitude". Now in your personal opinion, would that type of disease be the one from which the Liberal Party suffered at the time when you 25 wrote this article? As far as I am concerned, the Liberal Party on the basis of what they had said to us, and on the basis of their official documents, feared mass action, and that is the question I arrived at, not becauseof any theoretical knowledge, but because of my 30 experience. It may coincide with the views of

5 (N. MANDELA) theoreticians on the matter, it is irrelevant to me. I won't put the other document to you, it is in a similar vein. Next I wish to consider "briefly some of the passages in your article No Easy Walk to Freedom. My Lord, this is Exhibit A. 309, which was read into the record from page 945 to page 962. Now I refer to page 1(b) of the document before you, Mr. Mandela, the paragraph in which you assess the political significance of the Defiance Campaign, and you dealt with this in chief. I want you briefly again to explain to the Court what you meant when you said that the Defiance Campaign was extremely dangerous to the stability and security of the state, I didn't follow your explanation clearly? My Lord, as I indicated in my evidence in chief, the Defiance Campaign was planned in three stages, the final stage being one of mass action. If the stage had come to fruition then a state of affairs would have been created which would have made it difficult for the government to administer some of its laws, for example the pass laws, the rehabilitation scheme. Either the government would have to repeal those laws, or the voter& would say that in the interests of the country they must remove this government and replace it with another government. The fact that the overwhelming majority of the citizens of the country have to be compelled to br^ak laws in order to highlight their grievances is something that is against the welfare of the state, and if we had succeeded therefore in reaching the third stage, and either forcing the government to remove these laws or the government falling down because the voters vote it out of power, then the present state, built as it is on a structure of racial

6 (N. MANDELA) inequality, the exploitation of the non-european people by the Whites would disappear, and a new state based on the entire absence of the colour bar and on equality between all citizens of the country would emerge, and that is what I had in mind. 5 I agree with you that an organised state of general lawlessness throughout the whole country on a mass scale would be extremely dangerous to the stability and security of the state, but in writing this article, you were writing on what had in fact been accomplished in 10 the Defiance Campaign, not so? No, I was writing on what had been accomplished and what would have been accomplished had these measures not been brought about by the government. Just look at your sentence. "It was an effec-1 tive way ot getting the masses to function politically, a powerful method of voicing our indignation against the reactionary policies of the government, it was one of the best wgcys of exerting pressure on the government and extremely dangerous to the stability and security of the 20 state. It inspired and aroused our people from a conquered and servile community of yes-men to a militant and uncome promising hand of comrades in arms". Now, Mandela, isn't it obvious that you were there discussing the actual achievements of the Defiance Campaign, without speculating 25 on what further dangers might have arisen if the Defiance Campaign had b^en conducted further or on a higher level? What you are doing, you are confining yourself merely to this sentence. But in reading this sentence in relation to the whole article - I say for example later 30 in the article that had the government not suppressed

7 (N MANDELA) the Defiance Campaign, it would have imposed its policies on the country, clearly showing that I visualised the Defiance Campaign reaching a certain climax in which we would "be in a position of either getting the government to capitulate or the government being thrown out by the voters. Now you are reading this sentence not in context. If you read it in that context you see that the interpretation, the explanation which I am making is most reasonable. Is it also a reasonable explanation, a reasonable interpretation that on your view as far as the 10 Defiance Campaign went before it was suppressed it constituted a danger to the stato? Well, potentially, it did, although it was suppressed of course, that was in the stage where defying was by selection, but potentially it was a threat to the stability of the state. 15 I refer next to the portion you have just referred to at the foot of that page, on page 949 of the record. You say, "Today we meet under totally different conditions. By the end of July last year the campaign had reached a stage where it had to be suppressed by the 20 government or it would impose its own policies on the country." Now you say that refers to the further stage of mass action? Yes. And I take it the object was that the Congress movement we ld impose its policies on the whole 25 country? Yes, in the light in which I have explained it. That is it would bring the government to its knees through an organised campaign of lawlessness? In the light in which I explained it. What further explanation...? In the 30 light of the government either giving in on its own

8 ft"* (N. MANDELA) volition or "being forced by the voters to give in or to give way. Then if you would turn please to page 3 of this article, at the top of the page - My Lords, I am now reading at page 951 of the record, line 21. Having con- 5 sidered the counter-measures taken by the government, you say % "These developments require the evolution of new forms of political struggle which will make it reasonable for us to strive for action on a higher level than the Defiance Campaign. The government, alarmed at the indomi- l 1 table upsurge of national consciousness is doing everything in its power to crush our movement by removing genuine representatives of the people from the organisations," Now there apparently you had in mind action on a higher level still than the mass action stage which was never 15 achieved in the Defiance Campaign? Yes. And what sort of action was that? Stay! at home. I didn't have anything in mind, but - I didn't have anything particular in mind, but I was having in mind better organised forms of political actionl 20 Whatever they might be? Whatever they might be, in the light of the policy of the organisation, non-violence. Then next I refer to page 4 of this article, the foot of the page, the last paragraph, and in the 25 record My Lords, it is page 955, line 13. Having considered various legislative measures in this country, you say i "The cumulative effect of all these measures is to prop up and perpetuate the artificial and decaying policy of the supremacy of the White men. The attitude 30 o the government to us is that let us beat them down with

9 (N. MANDELA) guns and batons and trample them under our feet. We must be ready to drown the whole country in blood, if only there is the slightest chance of preserving White supremacy." Was your intention here to convey what has been said in another article to which reference was made last week, that in your view the ruling classes wer^ preparing a massacre? Yes. Look, in 1950 eighteen people had been killed and a number of people injured without any justification (?) at all. In 1952 in.oast London from nine to twelve people killed* In Port Elizabeth, in 1952, seven Africans were killed. We made investigations in\o these disturbances, and our finding was that there was no justification whatsoever for the police shooting. It became clear to us that the attitude of the government as far as Africans are. concerned let us beat them down, let us drown the country in blood. During the same period we read press reports of meetings, European meetings, being broken up by other Europeans, we wer_ informed according to press reports that these were the supporters of the Nationalist Party, where people were beaten up. Well, in such cases th~ government vould merely take down the name of the person who intended to brvj k up the meeting, certainly no violence. But when it comes to Africans, the most indiscriminate shooting takes place, and I stand by that statement. I continue reading. You say there is nothing to explode the herrenvolk idea, this is at the top of page 5, and then you say "In Malaya and Indo- Ghina British and French imperialism are beigg shaken to thuir foundations by powerful and revolutionary national liberation movements. In Africa there are

10 (N. MANDELA) approximately a hundred and ninety million Africans as against four million Europeans. The entire continent is seething with discontent and already there are powerful revolutionary eruptions in the Gold Coast, Nigeria, Tunisia, Kenya, the Rhodesias and South Africa." Then 5 you say, "The oppressed people and the oppressors are at loggerheads. The day of reckoning "between the forces of freedom and those of reaction is not very far off. I have not the slightest doubt that when that day comes truth and justice will prevail." Your reference there to the 10 day of reckoning, what did you mean by that? Well, My Lord, I have already explained this, that I meant to convey a day of a more sharpened opposition. A day of a clash? Well, its the same tiling, 15 The day of a physical clash? No, no, A day of a clash in the sense that we will insist on our demandsand if the government is wedded to its policy of racial discrimination, then of course either they must capitulate or they must make way. That is the day of the 20 clash. What I am putting to you is that the second alternative, the making way, on a proper reading of this whole article, may involve physicial and violent clash? Well, I don't think it is on a proper reading of the 25 article. On a proper reading of the article there is no suggestion of a physical clash at all. I talk about the Defiance Campaign, the Defiance Campaign was no physical clash. We are now considering the struggle on a 30 higher level? Yes.

11 (N. MANDELA) The Defiance Campaign is a matter of history. You are looking to the future. You said on the one hand the ruling classes, absolutely ruthless and ready to drown the country in blood. We, on the oth r hand, that is the liberatory movement, will continue the struggle, and then you refer all over the world to various revolutionary national liberation movements, from the countries you mention, it is clear that in some of them there has not been violence. It is clear from some of the other references that there has been violence. And then you say the day of reckoning is at hand, and when it comes, truth and justice will prevail. Now I want to put to you that as against that background, you put it yourself, it means one of two things, either the ruling power, the ruling clique will concede the demands, or else they must make way. And I am suggesting to you that the whole tenor of this article, the language used in it implies that if they have to make way, it may be a physical clash between the forces of oppression and the oppressed people? I deny that most emphatically. I refer to revolutionary eruptions in South Africa for example. Th.re was no violence in South Africa. I am referring to the Defiance Campaign, and there is no justification whatsoever for reading into this the meaning of physical violence. BY MR. JUSTICE BEKKJR t What were the powerful revolutionary eruptions you had in mind when you referred to the Gold Coast? The Gold Coast was a serious political struggle for changes. There was nev.t any violence there at all, Nigeria? No violence in any shape or form in Nigeria.

12 (N. MANDELA) In Tunisia? In Kenya? Rhodesia? In Tunisia there was violence. Th-re was, My Lord. No violence in Rhodesia. BY MR. HOJXT-JR : In Malaya? There was violence. BY MR. JUSTICE I^KKER s That is not included in that sentence. BY MR. HOJXT^R s Not in that sentence, My Lord, it is in the one immediately before that? What I wish to convey there, My Lord, was that in these countries there is a determined and militant movement for political changes, nothing more than that. Let us read a little further. The next paragraph, page 956 of the record, line 5. You refer to the intensification of oppression to check the national liberation movement, and you say that the racial policies of the government the conscience of all men, and then you continue 2 "The feelings of the oppressed people have never been more bitter. If tho ruling circles seek to maintain their position by such inhuman methods, then a clash between the forces of freedom and thoso of reaction is certain. The grave plight of the people compells them to resist to thj death the stinking policies of the gangsters that rale our country." My impression is that this passage was put to the witness Luthuli, and that he said that the plain meaning of the language here as he read it, he understood the word "clash"' as implying a physical clash. Do you agree with that reading or do you tthink it is a wrong reading? No, most definitely not. I explain it in exactly the same sense in which I

13 (N. MANDELA) explain the previous paragraph. What does "clash" mean here? As I say, clash means a sharpened opposition, a sharpened antagonism. BY MR. JUSTICE EEKKER : Co Id it he more sharpened than this sentence 5 implies? Feelings of the oppressed people have never been more bitter. There is still a further degree? Of being bitter? Yes? You see, you prefaced that sentence that the feelings of the oppressed people have never been 10 more bitter. If the ruling sircles seek to maintain their position by such inhuman methods, then a clash between these forces is certain? Depending on the issues, My Lord, they might feel more strongly about some matters, for example about the massacre in Sharpville, and they feel much more 15 bitter than th^y felt about the laws which they set out to defy,' The point I was making was not to suggest any physical clash. It was to show that a more sharpened opposition must be expected in the light of the policies being pursued by the government, but in the light of our 20 policy of non-violence. What sort of political clash did you visualise may follow on this situation, where the feelings of the oppressed people have never been more bitter? What kind of political clash, as opposed to physical clash? 25 Well, exactly the type of clash like the Defiance Campaign. The Defiance Campaign itself was a clash, politically. The African people... Was it because the government stepped in and legislated? Wqs there a political clash in the 30 Defiance Campaign, having regard to the fact that the

14 (N. MANDSLA) government then intervened by legislation. Where was the clash? No. The clash, My Lord, was the very launching of the Defiance Campaign against the laws, that was the clash. Now, in the course of that struggle a lot of things took place. They - the Defiance Campaign became stronger 5 and more people came in, andthe government in order to suppress by way of retaliation in this clash, brought about these laws. Now th.ru was a clash, I can understand a clash in the Defiance Campaign a clash between the oppressed 10 people and the laws as such. Was that a clash between the oppressed people and th, government? Well, in the sense that the laws, My Lord, were made by the government, to that extent it was a clash. -s.nd the minute there was that clash the 15 government then legislation, and that brought an end to the clash? You see, we may be playing with words, I don't know, but I am trying to understand this particular paragraph here, because hero you refer to a clash between the forces of freedom and those of reaction..md if I under- 20 stand you correctly, you sought to convey you say a political clash, not a physical clash? Yes. Well, My Lord, in spite of the fact that the government suppressed the Defiance Campaign, we were not going to stop there, as subsequent events have shown. We have continued. We 25 merely paused because a situation had now arisen which we never fully contemplated when we originally launched the Defiance Campaign. We had spread propaganda throughout the country, warning the people that you were likely to go to gaol for a month, for two months. We had never 30 visualised such drastic penalties, and *hen the government

15 (N. MANDELA) introduced this legislation, of course we couldn't go on, as if nothing had happened. Then you had to capitulate? We had to capitul&te. But obviously, we were not going to stop there. We found ways and means of overcoming these difficulties 5 and clashes, more clashes still took place between ourselves and the government. BY MB. HO JXTJR s Is your answer then that in fact the clash which you foreshadowed in this paragraph took place, and 10 not only that clash but a series of clashes took place after the writing of this article? A clash had taken place, more clashes followed, and there will still be, I am sure, there will still be many clashes. What clashes have taken place subsequent to 15 the writing of this article? There have been political campaigns which had been launched. ^nd on your interpretation, looking at the pr vious paragraph, would it be fair to say that each and every one of these clashes was also a day of reckoning? 20 In the sense that it brings us nearer to a day of recknning. ^ day of reckoning is a day when the government would be unable to resist the pressure which we exert. A day of reckoning is a day when accounts are settled? That might be a way of settling accounts. 25 It is the day when the government would not be able to resist the pressure which we are exerting, when the government would have to capitulate, when the government would have to be changed by the voters. Assuming for a moment that clash is what you 30 say it means, a sharpening of political opposition, do you

16 (N. MANDELA) understand by clash in that sentence a situation which could very easily lead to a rebellion, an armed revolt or a revolution? My Lords, as I have had occasion to say on a number of occasions already in my evidence, violence is not part of our policy. In fact we specifi- 5 cally condemn it. My Lords, we don't regard that either as an ordinary i ethodof political struggle or as a higher form, for v^ry obvious reasons. We believe that by resorting to violence, even assuming we were to achieve our demands sooner than through the policy of non-violence 10 that the African National Jongress, notwithstanding that, would never resort to violence, because we feel that a state brought about after a lot of suffering would create such passions of animosity that it would take a long time to eradicate that. We would rather take a longer time 15 and then show that the changes which we intend bringing about will be solidly based in the sense that all racial groups will support it. Mandela, you said on many occasions that you understanding of Congress policy was that Congress would 20 not initiate violence. "hit I am trying to explore with you at the moment is not whether Congress would initiate violence, but the mere likelihood of violence being initiated by whomsoever? Well, we can't rule out the possibility of violence. In fact, violence has been 25 used already by the government. But as far as we are concerned, we say it won't come from our side. BY MR. JUSTIC.J BEKKER : Do you mean that you visualised that what you were going to do may result in violence in this sense, 30 that the government may initiate violence and if the

17 1605$. (N. MANDELA) government should do so, then the government was to "blame for the violence? Yes. The "blame for violence could not be placed on you at all? That is so, My Lord. But of course, My Lord, that is not what I had in mind, that is a 5 separate matter altogether. Did you visualise for instance say mass action, that viclence may result? If you embark on mass action, the question of violence was always present in your mind? /e always had that in mind. As I 10 indicated to Your Lordship last week, the reasons for these elaborate precautions in regard to the Defiance Campaign were influenced by the possibility which we feared that the government might try to suppress the campaign in its initial stages by using violence and we 15 then took precautions to ensure that the government should not be furnished with this opportunity. Violence can really cover a multitude of sins, "/hat type of violence did you have in mind? Shooting people, beating t'lem up. That is the type of 20 violence which we contemplated. That might flow from the actions you embarked upon, but because the government had initiated it, you were exonerated, you were not to blame for it? No, we would n t be blamed at all, because we would take pre- 25 cautions - in fact, we would try to remove even the opportunity of the government using violence in the sense in which I have explained it, we would try and avoid that. As I said that was the very aim of the Defiance Campaign, to deprive the government of the opportunity to use violence, but we did contemplate it, becquse in the past it has happened, Africans have been shot.

18 16058 (N. MANDELA) BY MR. JUSTICE EUMPFF : I think the question really is this... ( inaudible)? My Lord, I don't tiink it is possible to fore- 5 see with any degree of certainty as to what is likely to happen, but the natural thing for the Congress to do would be to take precautions to ensure that there should be no violence on its part, and also that the government should not be furnished with the opportunity of provoking 10 violence. The whole idea of the stay at home, as I said last week, was influenced by the fact that we wanted to avoid the possibility of violence, either from the African people or from the government, because as I pointed out. My Lord, the normal thing when you strike 15 is to have pickets, to prevent people from working. But our own method is to say the people must stay in their homes, and we discourage the id.a of people congregating on the day of the stay at home,-and as far as we are concerned we believe that that method of organising a strike by 20 staying at home, eliminates t a very large extent the possibility of violence, either from Africans ar from the government. Now we can't do more than that. I don't think My Lord that it is possible to speculate whether having taken those precautions, there may not still be 25 incidents, AS far as we are concerned, -e try to the best of our ability to eliminate that possibility. And I think we are very likely to succeed. BY MR. HOEXT.oR % You refer in these paragraphs to two things, 30

19 (Is. MANDELA) thecfey of reckoning and the resultant victory for truth and justice, and also to the clash, if the ruling circles seek to maintain their position Toy such inhuman methods, there will be a clash. What I want to know from you is whether you contend that subsequent to the writing of this article there was either such aclash and such a day of reckoning as you have described in these paragraphs? Well, My Lords, I have explained my conception of what I m.-.ant by the day of reckoning, and as far as the question whether there havebeen clafcs..,. Confine yourself for the moment to the day of reckoning. In the light of this whole article, do you say that the day of reckoning did in fact arrive? No, not yet. A day of reckoning will be the day when the government either capitulates or when it will be removed by the voters. Andnow emming to the clash, you say that there have been clashes? There have been campaigns, we had political campaigns directed against the policy of the government the and you go on to say the grave plight of the people compells them to resist to the death the stinking policies of the gangsters who rule our country? Yes. That seems to imply that death is the price to be paid andis worthwhile? Yes. I mean, in the sense that a person struggling in accordance with our policy of non-violence may be shot by the government. That has happened. In other words, the clash wheth r or not the violence.omes from thj oppressed people, the clash

20 (N. MANDELA) you mention here {jay well bs? a physical clash, a physical violent clash? In the sense in which I have explained it. I hav. said that we ourselves intend conducting our struggle in a peaceful, disciplined and non-violent manner. In fact, we have don- so in the past. But notwithstanding that the government have shot and killed people. Will you turn please to the next page in this article, page 6. I refer to the concluding paragraph on page 6, in which you say "The decision to defy the unjust laws enabled Congress to develop considerably wider contacts between itself and the masses and the urge to join Congress grew day by day. But ue to the fact that the local branches did not exercise proper control and supervision, the admission of new members was not carried out satisfactorily. No examination was made of their past history and political characteristics. As a result of this there were many shady characters, political clowns, place seekers, saboteurs, agents provocateur, informers and ev^n police tcr infiltrated into the ranks of Congress." Did this unhappy infiltration cover the Defiance Campaign itself? I think I referred to the fact that the ire were people like policemen who infiltrated into the a.n.c. during the Defiance Campaign and I mention a case specifically. We are against that type of thing, simply because we don't want the af'airs of our organisation to be carried to other groups, to other people. It does not mean to say that we are doing anything sinister. I believe that th N tionalist Party would never like the oth^r parties to s-nd informers to join the Nationali t Party. What I really want to explore here is

21 (N. MANDELA) whether the screening of candidates for the Defiance Campaign was really effective? Yes, it was very effective, because it was directed not against informers. Really, the 'LfianceCampaign was directed on ascertaining whether the volunteers believed in nonviolence, because we did investigate the official background of a person. But a person can tell lies and say listen, I have been a member ofcongress for so many years, and we have no means of verifying that. You say no careful examination was made of thir past histories and political characteristics? Y.s, although in tructioas were issued and although as far as the defiance was concerned these precautions were taker} as far as the ordinary rank and file people joining Congress, these precautions were not taken. At least not to the extent which we wanted. Turn now please to page 7, page 960 of the record, My Lord, line 20. Yousay, "'Here in South Africa as in many parts of the world a revolution is maturing. It is the profound desire, determination and urge of the overwmming majority of the country to destroy forever the shacklis of oppression which cond mn them to servitude and slavery. The overthrow of oppression has be...n sancti >aed by humanity and is the higher aspiration of every free man." earlier this morning you explained to us what was in your mind when you wrote the article Searchlight on the Liberal Party, when you used the term "revolutionary democracy", tohen you use the term "revolution" Lrc, do. s it again imply not merely the granting of political rights, but economic reorganisation within the state as well? No, in this sense it merely means My Lord, that there is a serious

22 (N. MANDELA) political struggle in South Africa. BY Mi. JUSIICJ Kennedy : What the witness said on the 4th of August was the word revolution in this sense meant a /YyOtvsfw^5^ of profound changes. B": MR. HO JXT.-.E s A little further on that page, the n-xt paragraph, you refer to'kotane, Marks, Bopape, Tloome and I have bam "banned from attendin 0 gath rings and we cannot join and counsel with you on serious problems facing our country." Then some two lines furt&^r on you say "We are exiled from our own people because we have u icompromisingly resisted the efforts of imperialist America and her satellites to drag the world into the rule of violence and brutal force, into the rule of njpalm, hydrogen and cobalt bombs, wh^r-c millions of people will be wiped out to satisfy the criminal and greedy appetites of the imperial powers. We have been gagged because we have emph atically and openly condemned the criminal attacks by the imperialists against the people of Malaya, Vietnam, Indonesia, Tunisia, Tanganyika, and called upon our people to identify themselves unreservedly with th- cause of world peace and fight agai ist the war policies of America and her satellites. 'e have bem shadowed, hounded and trailed because We fearlessly voiced our horror and indignation at the slaughter of the people of Korea and Kenya." Then yougo on to the position in Kenya. Now here presumably you wer_ putting forth the views of the A.N.C. as well? ell, the A.N.C. has certainly condemned colonialism and to that extent I was. Vvhat satellites of :he United States of

23 (N. MANDELA) America did you here have in mind? Britain, France, England, Holland. Apart from criticising colonialism, here again you 0et the clearest possible expression of th~ view that America is bent on plunging the world into a furth r war? Well, there may bo that view, but as far as we are concerned, America from our own experience is a.country that is busy lining up aggressive military blocs, I don't want to interrupt you, but I want to make clear that I am not investigating the merits, the rights or wrongs of this particular view. I just want to make sure that this is, as far as you are concerned, the Congress view? Condemnation of America.,.,, Propagation of the idea that America is bent on plunging the world into a further world war? We b-lieve that, we believe that most strongly. You have already commented in chief on the penultimate paragraph of your article where you say "There is no easy walk to freedom anywhere. Many of us have to pass through th- valleyofthe shadow of death again and again before We reach the mountain tops of our desire-s". Do you agree with me that the ordinary meaning of the lords you employ, that that conveys the impression that the people in the libjration movement are likely to be exposed to the danger of death? Yes, in the sense in which I have explained it. In the sense wheth r or not they initiate vi lence, th^ ruling clique will...? They may be shot. My Lord, I might explain on this question of American

24 (N. MANDELA) imperialism, I say that is the view of the A.N.C. Now the view of th.- A.N.C. is based on experiences which it has had. It is not based on anything else. For example, now that America is condemning South Africa for her policy, the attitude of the A.N.C. to that extent has changed. This pamphlet No Easy Walk to Freedom was approved by the A.N.C. Transvaal, not so, and was put forth by them really in lieu of an Annual Report - a Presidential Address. Who was on the Executive of the A.N.C., Transvaal at the time? COURT ADJOURNS-.

25 (N. MANDELA) COURT RESUMES. NELSON ROLIIiLAHLA MANDELA, under former oath; CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MB, HO lixt^r CONTINUED ; Mr. Mandela, at the time you wrote No Easy Walk to Freedom, could you tell us please who the members were on the - first of all on the Transvaal Executive of the African National Congress? It was 5 Mr. A.P. Motsabi who was the Secretary* Mr. S. P. Moretsele, who was the Treasurer; And other members of the Executive were Mr. Tloome, G, Sibande, Mr. Flag Boshile, Mr, Andrew Kunene (?), Mr, Felo (?), Mr. Leslie Masina, Mr, Peters (?), - I can't remember now 10 the other names, There ware eleven of us. And the Executive of the Youth League at this stage, can you remember? Of the Transvaal or the National? Both? Actually, what I want is the p&ople 15 who were responsible fojsfeproducing No Easy Walk to Freedom?» I don't know as far as the Youth League is concerned, but Mr. Resha as far - he was the President of the A.N.C.Y.L. in the Transvaal, I can't remember now who the other officials were, 20 Can you remember who was on the National Executive? Of the names that you have mentioned, people who were on the Transvaal Executive at this time who were also on the National Executive? Mr. Moretsele, subsequently he became a member of the National Executive,25 and Mr. Masina, I don't know if he was on the National executive at the time, but I know he subsequently became a member of the National Executive; Mr. Resha

26 (NL MANDELA) subsequently became a member of the Executive, but I think as from I can't think of any others. I want to put to you a few questions on Exhibit N.R.M. 37, you will recall this is the document entitled Political Organisation with which you dealt in 5 examination in chief. I think the evidence was to the effect that there were two copies of this document found in your possession. In any case, you explained to us I think in examination in chief that this was one of a series of documents produced by the Transvaal African National 10 Congress and in answer to His Lordship Mr. Justice B,kker you said the purpose of these lectures was the political education of the members of the African National Congress? That is so. My Lord, this is the same as B. 25. My Lord, 15 this was read into the trial record at page 1175 to You have the original before you. Would you turn please, on the second page, to the third paragraph headed Strike Action* on page 3 S I beg your pardon. This paragraph is divided into sub-paragraphs, and sub-paragraph (iv) says 20 "Strike action representing direct clash between working class and ruling class for mastery can and often does lead to rebellion, revolution and armed clashes, since ruling class will resort to violence if thinks its rule is threatened." Then it goes on, "Such a situation for 25 example was seen in the African Miners' Strike of r he whole apparatus of the state, its police force, the Native Affairs Department, the press and the radio ranged itself on the side of the bosses, trying to make the strike out to be an armed rebellion of the workers. No considera- 30 tion of laws or justice prevented the government from

27 (N. MANDELA) using the most "brutal measures to smash the strike." Then the article proceeds 'The workers, faced with such an attack, often find their peaceful strike transformed into a minor war, a civil war in spite of themselves. This was the situation on ;he Rand in 1922, when European 5 workers, headed by the miners organised a general strike. Armed force was used against them by the government. The strikers in turn organised armed detachments to defend themselves and prevent the smashing of the strike. The strike turned into a civil war in which the government 10 came out victorious, because the White workers refused to work with the Black for the demands of the non-european for liberation." Now you say you cannot remember who the author of this particular lecture was? - I can't. Lo you agree with me that the passage I 15 have just read to you rather suggests the likelihood of an armed clash and the use of force not merely by the ruling classes, but the use of force also by the workers after the ruling classes have employed force first, I put this to you because my impression in examination 20 in chief was that you dismissed this paragraph as being of historical interest only. You uaid it was historically correct, but it had no further significance? BY MR. JUSTICE BARKER s Well, I think you did add that as far as 25 the A.N.C. was conc rned, they made it their business... BY MR. HO EXT.,R s Yes, they took precautions, My Lord? You have read three paragraphs, I don't know which one you want me to comment on now. 30 If you read the three together, I am putting

28 (N.MANDELA) to you it educates the reader "by saying to him, (a) there is likely to be a physical clash, (b) that the use of violence will not be confined to one side only, because although the workers may be averse to using force in the first place,.it often happens that despite themselves 5 they arc compelled to use force in retaliation because the state, the apparatus of state uses force first, This in turns compells the workers to organise armed forces or armed detachments. Now, do you agree with me that this paragraph does suggest those two things to the reader?10 Yes, I agree, My Lords, except with this qualification of course, that he describes here certain incidents which have taken place and in regard to both paragraphs I don't agree with them at all. He is wrong in the first place in explaining these incidents themselves, the 1946 strike 15 for example. Now, it is not true to suggest that the I,, workers in any way resorted to violence, AS far as I know what happened there is that about seventy-five thousand miners stopped work, and then they were beaten and forced down the mines by the police. There was no violence 20 whatsoever employed by the miners, and about twenty one miners were killed. There was no violence at all from the miners. But he suggests here that there was. No, he says - I think he says that "trying to make the strike out to be an armed rebellion of the 25 workers"j he doesn't say that in fact it was. It may have been of course, I don't know? He says in the previous paragraph that a strike may and often does lead to rebellion, revolution and armed clashes, and he says such //as the situation in the miners' strike, 30 which suggests that it amounted to a rebellion or

29 (N. MANDELA) revolution. No, that it led to an armed clash? There was no armed clash at all. The miners were just "beaten. Is it wrong to describe that as a clash? It is a qu stion of use, terminology. And then of course 5 the Rand Strike in 1922, I don't agree also with the sequence of events here r Here, what ha pened, is that the strikers themselves, even before the government did anything, the strikers themselves started seizing certain areas,- disarming the police, follow their own counsel, 10 - this is the 1922 strike as I know it. They did these things.. And, naturally, I don't justify the government at all, it then took troops to the Rand* drafted constables and special constables to suppress what now amounted to rebellion. Now, our policy is calculated to prevent that 15 type of thing. all. We don't think in terms of violence at Don't you find it highly curious that this lecture omits to mention these precautions to a reader? Look, these lectures were put out as a basis for discus- 20 sion. There was no attempt to say accept this interpretation of these events and hothing else. They are merely used as a basis for discussion, to stimulate political discussion in the movement. BY MR. JUoTIO-J BARKER ; 25 Well, you see I think you said in evidence in chief that this lecl^re was issued in , the object of which was to provide political education for members of the African N tional Congress? Y^s. If that was the object, as Counsel suggests 30 to you, would this not havj b^en a golden opportunity to

30 (N. MANDELA) point out that the "basic policy of the African National Congress is non-violence? The policy of the African National Congress has "been explained on numerous occasions, and it is also assumed that the people who are going to lecture on these notes are not going to confine 5 themselves to the sentences which appear her.. That man is going to ezpiundi-as he understands the policy. Tell me, to what extent did you know - let me put it this way. Did you have any hand in the preparation of this lecture? Yes I did - well, not in this 10 particular one, I had... Before that lecture went out, did you read it? Yes, I did. And seeing that you disagree with this, what may be termed history, you also disagreed with another 15 passage, I think it appears at page 1176, where you quarrelled with the insertion of the word "only", dealing with the history of passive resistance, where it stated that passive resistance proves tlafc it is only an effective weapon when it is used to build up the movement and to 20 prepare the people for other forms. Now you said the word "only" there...? That is so, My lord. Why didn't you correct these things before they wgnt out? No, My Lord. I assume - I can't remember now v^ry c&early, but I assume that in the 25 course of my own lecturing on them, as far as the members of the Executive are concerned, I must have made a criticism of the questions I didn't agree with in the lecture. Just tell me how you personally set about 30 using this lecture for the political education of the

31 (IT. MANDELA) members of the Congress? I used the lectures merely as a "basis, as a guide. But if I came across... No, leave that aside for the moment. You got this lecture. You read the lecture, and you then addressed a meeting of members of the A.N.C.? Of the 5 Executive. Did you lecture them on this? Yes, I did. Did you lecture the members of the Executive? Of the Executive of the Transvaal, Using this as the basis? Yes. 10 Did you ever seek to correct these passages which didn't me^t with your approval? As I say, My Lord, I can't remember distinctly, but I assume that I must have done so, because my approach to these lectures, to all these lectures which had been circulated, is that in the 15 first place they don*t lay down any policy, they merely form a basis for a lecture educating your audience on the contents of the lectures, for example passive resistance. I would then... I understand that, but the only thing that 20 is exercising my mind is this, you see you say you may have corrected whatever was incorrect, you were thinking when you lectured these people. But now as far as oth^r people were concerned also lecturing people, they may not have agreed with you on this, they may have proceeded 25 on this basis as it appears here? That is so, My Lord, but... I was wondering whether you didn't think it perhaps worthwhile to correct in the lectures what you didn't agre with? Your Lordship will remember that in my explanation as to how these lectures were conducted, I

32 (N. MANDELA) I explained that, if I remember correctly, firstly we conducted these lectures amongst the members of the Transvaal Executive. Then we divided the Transvaal into eleven areas, each one supervised by one member of the Executive, Now he would then lecture to representatives of branches in that particular zone,,.. Using this lecture? Yes. Now, and they in turn would do so in their respective areas. Now, I assume, My Lord, I can't remember it as a fact, that when I addressed the members of the Provincial Executive when I came across any particular statement with which I didnot agree, I then said to them that I don'tagree with this, because my interpretation of events is so and so and my assessment of this political method of action is so and so» '/ho wore the otter lecturers on the - to Executive Committee? It was only me as far as the Transvaal executive was concerned, it was only me. And then they in turn lectured to th«s various zones to which they w^re allocated. They may have agreed with you, th^y may not have agreed with you? They may have agreed with me, they may not have agreed with me, My Lord. The difficulty, My Lord, about correcting a thing likj this is simply this, that here a person expresses opinions, and the object of starting political discussions in a political movement, is to get people to be clear to discuss any matters of controversy, any matturs of interest in the movement and through discussion to form a view and sometimes ev~n though you don't agree, you may not agr-je with a particular formulation, but you may like for the purpose

33 (N. MANDELA) of your gwn guidance yourself to have a discussion on the point, in the' movement, and you may therefore allow something which gometimes goes far "beyond official policy, you may allow that type of thing to circulate amongst members and to have a discussion on it. 5 BY MR. HOJXTER : Mr. Mandela, you are not suggesting that this lecture goes beyond official policy do you? Well, insofar as it suggests that force and violence is something that may be resorted to by a politicalorganisation, it goes beyond the policy of the A.N.C. Let us analyse that. It predicts readily the use of force by the ruling classes as soon as the ruling class thinks its rule is threatened. Now that is 1C clearly part of Congress policy? Yes, in fact - that 15 the authorities may ito^ force, oh yes. What is against Congress policy? The fact that we ourselves may by way of retaliation resort to violence, that goes far beyond our policy. Is it inconsistent with it? Absolutely 20 inconsistent. BY MR. JPSTICil EUMFFF s Merely as a statem nt of what may happen normally and generally, apart from the question of particular policy, it seems to me that the document 25 under the heading Strike Action, that paragraph, I don't know what page that is - pc,age 3, analyses the situation of a particular type of strike, and in doing so it informs the reader, again apart from policy of a particular organisation, it informs the reader of 30 what may happen, and then it says, as I see it, as I

34 (N. MANDELA) see it, as I read it here, it says in the very first line of the paragraph Strike Action, "Strike action is essentially a weapon of industrial, shop and farm workers against bosses for better wages and conditions, but it can be turned into a weapon of political struggle against 5 the ruling class." And then it talks about the introduction of political demands, etc. Then it quotes Finland, Belgium, and then it says, "Such a strike carried on would not be just a demonstration, but would initiate a struggle with the workers on one side and the employers and the 10 government on the other". That is when you have now political demands. Political demands made by the workers, who are without certain political rights and who claim those rights. Then in sub-paragraph (iv), it says "Strike action, representing direct clash between working class 15 and ruling class for mastery,," now pausing there, I take it that is the strike action in which political rights are claimed, not merely the better wages, and here you have a clash between the working class and the ruling class for mastery, "can and often does lead to rebellion, 20 revolution and armed clashes, sine^ the ruling class will resort to violence if it thinks its rule is threatened." Then it quotes the example of the 1946 strike which you criticised. Then a little lower down after completing the paragraph from the 1946 strike, it says "The workers, faced with such an attack, often find th eir peaceful strike transformed in a minor war, a civil war despite themselves", so that the author says that strikes may be used to acquire political rights, and it is a strike which thecworkers initiate in a peaceful manner, but in view of the fact that this is now a

35 (N. MAND3LA) political struggle, you may find that the ruling class will resist the strike by force, and that in such a situation, the author says, you may find that the workers, faced v-ith an attack "by the employers often find their peaceful strike transformed into a minor war 5 in spite of themselves. Now that is a diagnosis of a situation that may arise? Yes. I say again apart from policy. Now apart from the policy of the Congress alliance, what is your view in regard to your struggle and the analysis set out 10 here, apart from policy? In other words, assume the A.N.C. and the Congress alliance had no such policy, express policy of non-violence, would this prognostication be justifiable? I assume also, My lord, that the author here had in mind strikes, not stays at home. 15 No, strikes? Now insofar as he basas his conclusions on these two incidents, the miners strike and the Rand strike, of course his conclusions are altogether wrong. I am not talking aboutthose two particular 20 occasions. I am talking on the author's general statements, his diagnoses of the particular difficulties that may occur. "Then you have a political strike and you meet opposition by the ruling class, apart from the examples, assume they are wrong, assume the-se particular 25 examples, the two which are quoted are wrong, generally speaking, would thtt be a correct diagnoses? I don't know, Ky lord. I don'tknow at all, because the whole thing hjre to be is lighly academic, academic ^ - it certainly has no relation whatsoever to our own 30 v conditions here. But as a matter of theory...

36 1'J. (N. MANDELA) Apart from the question of the policy of the Congress alliance, do you not have a political struggle - I am now on what the evidence so far s~ems to indicate - do you not here have the organisation to acquire political rights for that part of the population 5 of South Africa who have no political rights? My Lord, let me put it this way. I have made no study about the use of a strike weapon as such, I have made no exhaustive study as far as that is concerned. It may be that it is very likely that that happens, it may be. As far as I am 10 concerned, I merely limit myself, My Lords, to the form of strikes which we have adopted in this country, after we have carefully analysed our own conditions, the dangers that are likely to arise when we employ a strike weapon and decided deliberately that with the conditions pre- 15 vailing here, it is better for us to have stay at homes, because stay at homes will avoid all dangers that are likely to arise, like violence. But from the point of view of having been able to undertake an exhaustive study of what is strike is likely to develop into, that 20 type of investigation I have not made. Has the Congress alliance in the period under consideration indicated, to your knowledge, in any particular speech by any leader or in any particular document, published either directly by members of the 25- alliance or in any paper supporting the alliance, expressed the warning or the indication that the Congress alliance is not in favour of a strike but in favour of a stay at home, because of the fact that it would tend to reduce the possibility of violence 30 occurring? My Lord, I don't remember whether there

37 (N. MANDELA) is any document of that nature before the Court, but I remember quite definitely during the time when I was active in Congress, in relation to a stay at home the point being made that the advantage of people staying in their houses and not picketing is the fact that we 5 minimise altogether the possibility of violence. That point has been emphatically made. BY MR. HOJXTER ; The documents have also stressed the forms of struggle should be flexible, that one cannot in advance 10 settle finally and for all times the form of the struggle, and that the essence of political leadership is to devine correctly at a n y given point what steps must be taken to go on to the next stage and so on to the final go4l% In fact, this very exhibit before you stresses that 15 point that to be rigid and unbending on method is to court disaster? There I agree with you, but in relation - Congress said it is in relation to the methods which are set out in the Irogrigune of Action. At times conditions may argue in favour of the employment of civil disobedience,20 at other times the conditions may argue in favour of a stay at home. V,e can't be rigid and say that our only method of action is civil disobedience. And on other occasions the circumstances may point to the necessity for a nation wide strike for 25 political demands, for example a demand effecting the very existence of the government, that it may call for a change of government? in favour of a strike? You mean then we might decide Yes? Yes, that is not ruled out. That 30 is specifically referred to in the Programme of Action,

38 (N. MANDELA) strike action is referred to. From the point of view of our implementing the Programme of Action, we have rather emphasised the stay at home. To sum up the position Mr. Mandela, it comes to this, that whatever Congress policy or the viewpoint 5 of Congress may be as to viol-nee and non-violence, and whether or not this prediction of the use of force consequent upon the use of a strike is correct or not, a reader reading this official publication of the African National Congress would gather the impression that if 10 strike action were used, to further the political struggle, violence was quite likely to result? My Lord, I don't think that members of the public are eager to read violence where there is no violence. I think the members of the public read this lecture, and they would in the 15 first place read it in the light of their own understanding, for example, of what happened during the miners strike. We have a lot of people who actually participated in the miners strike. We have a lot of people who know what happened in the Rand strike, and we hav-, a lot of people 20 who understand the policy of the Congress, to whom it has been explained. And, if my memory is correct, and in this I must explain that I am relying purely on the possibility that I might have done so, those persons who were in charge of these lectures, to whom I lectured 25 myself, naturally go to their students with the view which I expressed and whici they themselves held on these events, the miners' strike and the Rand strike, and I don't think that anybody really under thosecircumstances would get the impression that here violence was being 30 advocated.

39 (N. MANDSLA) BY MR. JUSTICE BSKKXR : Was the education only confined to Congress members...? Yes, this is only for Congress members. When it went to branches, didn't the branch members use this to educate the masses? No, this is only for Congress members. Why was it to be confined to Congress members only? Because our task is to highten political understanding amongst the members of Congress. ^re you correct there? Because I have in mind, I think in the evidence of Luthuli, that the Congress movement thought it necessary to educate the masses, the African masses? Well, the question of educating the African masses is part of our programme, but of course it doesn't mean to say My Lord that we... That is why I ask you, if it was part of the programme to educate the masses, why was this document to be confined to Congress members only? Why was it not to be used to educate the masses politically? Let me explain, My Lord, as to the question of educatin. the masses, that is quite an involved and difficult affair. You educate the masses, for instance, through a campaign. We do say that during the Defiance Campaign the amount of education that was given to the masses of the people was equal for example to a period of education which could have lasted for two years, within that short time, they learnt what they could have learnt in ordinary times within two years. The very fact of drawing members of the public into a political campaign and saying to them that we are attacking these laws because it brings these disabilities to us, that atone is education of the masses.

40 (N. MANDELA) I don't think that when we talk of educating the masses we are talking in terms of a lecture. I understand that, "but I don't quite appreciate why this couldn't be used to educate them? My Lord, certainly as far as the Transvaal is concerned, these 5 lectures were intended purely for the members of the African National Congress. It is but natural, My Lord, because when you educate... Yes, yes, I follow that. Was ther^ anything said that this should be limited to Congress members? 10 No, My Lord. Could a person, a Congress member who has had the benefit of this lecture, he could go abroad and make useof this information to educate the masses? That is true, My Lord, thac is the position. There was 15 no prohibition placed on members of the Congress from themselves teaching members of the public. But, as far as our machinery is concerned, it was concerned primarily with placing these lectures - making them available to members of Congress. But if a person May I ask you, to educate that particular member of Congress, to render him fit in turn to educate the masses? Yes, that is so, Ky Lord, that is so. It may very well have happened that some members of Congress in the branches may have discussed these lectures n25 with people who are not members by way of getting them interested in what is going on in the African National Congress. That mi 0 ht well have happened. But primarily as far as we were concerned... You see, what worries me is this, if the 30 idea was to educate a Congress member to enable him in turn

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