1 SUFFIELD TOWNSHIP BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS :00 P.M., JANUARY, PUBLIC HEARING IN RE: GREG AND JENNIFER SPICKARD Held at Suffield Township Fire Department Community Room Waterloo Road, Mogadore, Ohio Board members: Don Monroe, Chair Leo Weakland Dave Duma Vicki Vincent Pete Einloth Matt Loos, alternate Present: Mr. Bey, Secretary Jocelyn S. Lombardi, RPR, court reporter
2 P R O C E E D I N G S CHAIRMAN MONROE: Okay. Time to call the meeting to order. We're going to pledge allegiance first to the flag. We do that because there's two separate meetings here. One was our reorganizational meeting, which we normally don't have an audience. And the second is our meeting, which we have scheduled for this evening. So, we do that with each meeting. (The Pledge of Allegiance was conducted.) CHAIRMAN MONROE: My name is Don Monroe. I'll be chairing the meeting tonight. On the Board with me tonight is Leo Weakland, David Duma, Vicki Vincent, and David Einloth. And I want to remind the audience this is a legal proceeding. We have a stenographer here to take the minutes. So, whoever wants to speak, your name, your address first before you speak. And we're going to swear everybody in so that we don't have to do it one at a time or whatnot. So, at this point, let's have everybody in the audience sworn in. And that will handle that once and for all. (The audience was sworn by Notary Public Jocelyn S. Lombardi.)
3 CHAIRMAN MONROE: Thank you. The zoning inspector is going to read the appeal. MR. BEY: Zoning request was made by Greg and Jennifer Spickard of Marbury Circle, Northeast, Hartville, Ohio. Zoning request from the above applicant for the purpose of separating a property while leaving an existing barn on the vacant portion on the property located at 0 Waterloo Road. It's in an R- zoning district and has been denied because it would be in violation of the following special conditions as so stipulated in 0..K. of the Zoning Resolution, thus requiring a zoning variance subject to the approval of the Board of Zoning Appeals. Describing the violation, the plan's to put the original residence on its own.-acre plot, then have the barn on a, on a larger remaining portion with a new home. I signed this on the th of November,. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Okay. Before we continue the meeting, I want to have the Board and myself look over some of this information first. Because we've never looked at it yet. So, give us a few minute here. And then we'll continue the meeting. (A pause was taken.)
4 CHAIRMAN MONROE: Does the Board have any questions for our zoning inspector? Because we're looking at a lot of information here. If no questions from the Board to the zoning inspector, we're going to continue our meeting. We're going to turn the floor over to the applicant. We need your name and address. And then we need you to explain to the Board why we should approve your request. MR. SPICKARD: My name is Greg Spickard, S P I C K A R D. Address is Marbury Circle, Hartville, Ohio. And my intention is to restore the existing farmhouse and the barn into workable condition and also put up a single-family home on the big lot, which we call the "big lot," which will be acres, as well as keep the area open to farmers. Right now somebody is farming it. So, we'll keep that open to the farmer. Probably do a little bit of that ourselves hopefully in the future once we get things set up correctly. Just like to have this approved so we can move forward with our plans. As I mentioned, our intention is to keep the original barn in its
5 condition, period condition. I'm not planning to put metal siding on it. It's going to be wood siding. I got some stone masons that will be putting the stone back into its original condition, rather than using block and concrete. And then I also have some professionals that are able to fix the posts-and-beam barn back to its original condition as well. So there's, there's quite a bit of work for us to do. And this is just one step of that. And hopefully we'll get that approved tonight. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Okay. Let's have questions from the Board. Start with Leo. MR. WEAKLAND: The access road for future construction, where would that be roughly? MR. SPICKARD: That will be beside the existing house. There's a road there already for the existing house. So, we'll be using that road to get back to the property for the barn and things like that. I, I don't have any intention of selling the, the existing farmhouse property. I have a father-in-law that is, is going to need a place to stay soon. And I also have a son who's married, has a brand-new baby. So, there's a couple of options
6 there for us. The only purpose of splitting the lot is to meet the zoning requirements. So, we have no intention of doing anything with the farmhouse other than fixing it up to, to livable condition. MR. WEAKLAND: Okay. That's all I have. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Dave? MR. DUMA: Nothing yet. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Any more? MR. WEAKLAND: No. I'm done. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Nothing for you, Dave? MR. DUMA: Uhm-huhm. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Vicki, do you have any questions? MS. VINCENT: The farmhouse that you're going to fix up, the septic field -- MR. SPICKARD: Right. MS. VINCENT: -- do you have enough open land if that fails? MR. SPICKARD: Part of the requirement to get the lot split to one and a half acres is that you have a backup septic field. And we did have the septic -- or, we did have the soil tested in an area that could be used for a proposed septic, proposed backup system.
7 MS. VINCENT: Okay. Thank you. MR. BEY: They were approved already for the backup system looks like. MR. DUMA: For the current house or for -- MR. BEY: For the current. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Do you have any more questions, Vicki? MS. VINCENT: No. I may later. CHAIRMAN MONROE: David? MR. DUMA: Where do you plan on putting your new house at? MR. SPICKARD: To the, to the west of the barn. So -- I'm sorry. To the east of the barn, to the east. Yeah. Couldn't go very much west there. But it will be -- MR. DUMA: It's going to be fairly close to the barn? MR. SPICKARD: It will be close to the barn, yeah. MR. DUMA: Okay. And you don't plan on selling the other lot -- MR. SPICKARD: No. MR. DUMA: -- where the house is? MR. SPICKARD: Only -- again, the only purpose is that, to do that, is I hate to tear down
8 the old farmhouse. It's got good bones there. MR. DUMA: Right. MR. SPICKARD: So, I think it will be useful to, to have that fixed up for, either for family or as a -- later on down the road if somebody else buys the property from me, they could use this as a rental property. MR. DUMA: And you just want to build a new house on that property, have the barn. Can't have two houses on one parcel. MR. SPICKARD: That's correct. MR. DUMA: Okay. Is there any complaints on what you want to do? I mean I -- MS. KEENAN: Mine isn't a complaint. I live next door at 0 Waterloo. I think his -- MS. VINCENT: State your name. MS. KEENAN: I'm sorry. Linda Keenan, 0 Waterloo Road, Mogadore, Ohio. I live next door. I love that barn and that old farmhouse. So, I would hate to see anything happen to it. And I'm perfectly fine with him building a big house over in what is now a field. So, it's not going to bother anybody. MR. DUMA: Right. Okay. MS. KEENAN: It will actually add to the
9 area. But, it would be a disservice to tear that barn down. It would be a disservice to all of Suffield. MR. DUMA: Yeah. Which that's not your intention, to tear it down? MR. SPICKARD: No. No. MS. KEENAN: But I'm just saying if you can't split it or whatever -- MR. DUMA: I see. MS. KEENAN: -- you know. But the barn... I love the farmhouse and the barn. I enjoy just looking at them. So... And I really wouldn't see much of your new house. Because it, it would be over on the other side. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Have any more questions, David? MR. DUMA: Not at this point. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Okay. One more time around. Leo, any more questions? MR. WEAKLAND: No questions. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Dave? MR. DUMA: No, no questions. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Vicki?
10 MS. VINCENT: Is there anybody else in the audience that has comments? CHAIRMAN MONROE: We're not down to that yet. MS. VINCENT: We're not. Okay. Sorry. CHAIRMAN MONROE: It's your turn. It's your turn to ask questions. MS. VINCENT: Well, that was my question. No, I don't. MR. DUMA: I have a question about the house. Do you have plans for the house yet besides just a desire? Or is there -- MR. SPICKARD: I do have plans in place and am setting up with contractors right now. So, we plan to -- MR. DUMA: There's always drawings for the house; no permit yet? MR. SPICKARD: Right. That's correct. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Okay. Well, does nobody else have questions? MR. BEY: I have one comment. It looks like the Health Department approved their septic for the -- the remaining acreage but not for the split yet. The., that has not been approved. So, the existing farmhouse is. The secondary has
11 not been approved yet, just the -acre one. MR. DUMA: So, the new house has approved septic? MR. BEY: But not the secondary on the existing yet. Probably waiting on the lot split. MR. DUMA: Does it need a new septic? MR. SPICKARD: No. No. MR. BEY: Anytime you request a separation of the property, the existing property has to have -- show a secondary system. And you have to have the room and layout done for it. MR. DUMA: And has that -- MR. BEY: No. They haven't done it for the existing property yet, just the new, just what the new house is going to be on the acres plus. MR. DUMA: Okay. One more question. You're not going to have an easement on that parcel to go back to that -- to the barn? I mean that -- let's say if you would sell that house -- MR. SPICKARD: Right. MR. DUMA: -- how are you going to get to the barn? MR. SPICKARD: Well, there would have to be a permanent driveway put in or installed.
12 MR. DUMA: On your -- MR. SPICKARD: On the acres. MR. DUMA: I mean just so it doesn't come down the road -- MR. SPICKARD: Oh, sure. Yeah. I thought of that myself. So, yeah. CHAIRMAN MONROE: I got two or three questions here. MR. BEY: Please. CHAIRMAN MONROE: One is to you. MR. BEY: Sure. CHAIRMAN MONROE: In, in this request, can we actually give it a legitimate approval before the septic system has been approved? MR. BEY: Our only approval -- the Health Department takes care of the septic system. We just can't issue a permit or sign the Mylar until after all that's done. But they can't go to Mylar and they can't go to get the approval from the Health Department and Regional Planning until this is done. So, what that means is this is Step A, saying that we're going to allow them to split the property with the barn by itself on an empty property without a primary residence. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Right.
13 MR. BEY: That's Step. CHAIRMAN MONROE: All right. Back to my original question. Then I got about three. The accessory building -- MR. BEY: Uhm-huhm. CHAIRMAN MONROE: -- part of our book on which the request was denied, because of the existing barn without a primary home, No., it does say that no accessory building is permitted on vacant lots -- MR. BEY: Correct. CHAIRMAN MONROE: -- which is what we usually go by. MR. BEY: Correct. CHAIRMAN MONROE: But if you go down to No., it says agricultural use of land is exempt from accessory building regulations. MR. BEY: But that's not what we're doing here. He's not, he's not a farmer farming the land, building a, building a, a stall-barn for livestock. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Okay. And that answers my question there. Second question would be -- MR. BEY: If he were, he would have to provide a CAUV number and prove legitimate income from the property.
14 CHAIRMAN MONROE: All right. That brings me to another part of the book. Page has to do with nonconforming buildings -- MR. BEY: Uhm-huhm. CHAIRMAN MONROE: -- or structures. And sometimes when we get into this, we're only given a few minutes here to look at it. And sometimes it's confusing. But this reads in our zoning book in Section 0., Page, "Where a lawful structure and/or building exists at the effective date of the adoption of this Resolution or amendment thereto that could not otherwise be built under the terms of this Resolution, said building or structure may continue to be used or occupied by a use permitted in the district so long as it remains otherwise lawful and does not constitute a public nuisance subject to the following provisions," which has to do with maintenance and everything. It seems to me like in this particular thing -- now, we, we don't allow the accessory building to be built on vacant property. MR. BEY: Correct. CHAIRMAN MONROE: But this building is an existing building that's been there for a long time.
15 To me, that falls under the nonconforming section. MR. BEY: It's conforming at the moment because it's on, it's on a legal lot. CHAIRMAN MONROE: I know. MR. BEY: He is changing the use of that lot. CHAIRMAN MONROE: If it's slit, separated, then it becomes nonconforming. MR. BEY: But that's the problem. Even Regional Planning is citing it the same way. You're creating the nonconforming. You can't create nonconforming, period. MR. CALCEI: I have a question. Tom Calcei, Meander Way. If the acres is being farmed currently, it's generating income as a farm. It's leased. If the landowner has a lease or is not a farmer, it's still generating income. Wouldn't it then fall under the agricultural? MR. BEY: Until he decides to build a house on it and do a lot split. MR. CALCIE: Okay. MR. BEY: This is straight from Regional Planning. I'll read it to you if you want. MR. CALCEI: So, in other words, that acres essentially becomes a residential lot --
16 MR. BEY: Correct. MR. CALCEI: -- because it's putting a house on it? MR. BEY: Correct. Then because he's also the new owner, he's not the farmer, he, he might be collecting leases right now, but that's it. MR. DUMA: Can it still be agricultural and not -- MR. CALCEI: I thought everything over five acres was considered exempt -- MR. BEY: No. MR. CALCEI: -- for agricultural use. MR. BEY: The only thing, only thing for five acres is it creates you from not having to follow certain of the rules, like building sizes and things like that. MR. CALCEI: Okay. What is the ten acres? MR. DUMA: Ten acres, if it's less than ten, then you have to prove that your income is over hundred. MR. CALCEI: Okay. MR. DUMA: So, you know, like if you had three acres and you had greenhouses, you know, as long as you're producing more than hundred dollars --
17 MR. CALCEI: File an exception? MR. DUMA: Yes. Yes. MR. BEY: You still have to apply for a CAUV and have a CAUV number. MR. DUMA: Correct. Which that parcel is already -- I'm assuming that they would already have it in the CAUV. I mean they would be crazy not to. MR. CALCEI: Right. MR. BEY: Have you applied for that yet? MR. SPICKARD: I just got the letter this week to do it. But -- MR. BEY: So, you don't yet. MR. SPICKARD: -- prior to buying it earlier this year -- MR. DUMA: You just bought that property; correct? MRS. SPICKARD: Yes. MR. SPICKARD: I bought it in January of. MR. DUMA: Okay. Okay. MR. SPICKARD: So, the previous owner was already approved, filed for the CAUV, which my understanding was it transferred over to, to us. MR. DUMA: Okay. You have to refile that as the owner.
18 MR. SPICKARD: I did. They sent me -- MR. DUMA: Yeah. MR. SPICKARD: -- a letter to do that. So, I'm assuming you have to refile. MR. DUMA: You'll have to do it, yep. MR. SPICKARD: I know they look at backtaxes. MR. DUMA: Yeah. Three years backtaxes. MR. SPICKARD: I saw the backtax number there. MR. PRETTYMAN: I'm James Prettyman. I live at Waterloo Road, Suffield. My wife and I owned this property, and we sold it to Greg. We had the CAUV and David Cruise had farmed it. David Cruise went out of the picture and Mason Kisamore took over. Mason's been farming it ever since. And then he's dealing with Greg now. MR. BEY: It's regardless. Because the problem is you can't have the building on the property. It's a nonconforming use. You can't create a nonconforming use. According to Regional Planning, the barn will not meet zoning. And when we see them, they would have to sign a form acknowledging that the barn would become a nonconforming structure. They're not concerned
19 about the lot size of the split and the back being thin. They say, quoting them, "We have screwy lots all over the place." So, that they're not worried about. But per that, we just can't have the barn on its own property. MR. DUMA: Even the new lot comes out as a decent lot too. Because it's squared off in the back. And it's actually -- MR. BEY: Yeah. They don't like the fact that it's walking. MR. DUMA: That it's what? MR. BEY: Walking, stepping. MR. DUMA: Like a flag pole. MR. BEY: It becomes a flag pole. But they say they'll still approve it. MR. DUMA: That's not that big of an issue. MR. BEY: Then it goes through the other stuff that you don't care about, the minor subdivision with the survey drawing and all the other stuff. MR. DUMA: You're saying even though it's agricultural, because it's his now, it doesn't qualify? MR. BEY: It's because you're doing the lot split. And the barn is not being used as
20 agricultural use. MR. DUMA: So, he has to put a cow in there or something. MR. BEY: You can call it what you'd like. But this is still where we're at. MR. DUMA: I agree. MR. BEY: We can step around it every which way but Tuesday. But it is what it is. MR. SPICKARD: I think it's good to have the discussion, though. Because it may come up again. So... And I questioned Adam pretty much basically on the same issue I guess. And he give me the same answer. So, that's why we're here today. MR. DUMA: When we split it, once the house is built, everything is up to code, conforming; correct? MR. BEY: What's that? MR. DUMA: If we approve the -- MS. VINCENT: The split. MR. DUMA: -- split or variance -- MR. BEY: Then they can go to the next step to finish their Health Department stuff, then go to Regional Planning. And then Regional Planning and myself, we'll sign off on the Mylar which makes it a legal lot, which they, they can start getting
21 permits. MR. DUMA: And once the house is on -- MS. VINCENT: They wouldn't try to overrule us? MR. BEY: Regional Planning? No. Regional Planning is waiting for this. If we say that -- if we say "no" tonight, they say "no." MR. DUMA: But what I'm saying is, once the house is built, it's a normal lot like any other house would be? MR. BEY: Correct. MR. DUMA: Okay. But it could still be an agricultural lot? MR. BEY: Correct. You can make any lot agricultural. Like Andy. He's got a. --.,.-acre horse farm. MR. CALCEI: It's at least., with a sign somewhere. MR. BEY: Anything can be under it, as long as it's doing what they say they would do. But that's not what -- that's not even our jurisdiction. MR. DUMA: Yeah. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Under the R-, one of the permitted uses is agricultural building and uses. Now, I, I guess the point here is -- and I think the
22 whole Board is struggling with this -- this seems to be a reasonable request. How can we -- As the zoning inspector, what's the answer here? Because -- MR. BEY: You guys can approve it. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Yeah. Because I went out and looked at the property myself. And it looks like a totally reasonable request, even though what you're saying is probably true. I don't know. MR. BEY: The only reason he's here is because the Ohio Revised Code, the county, and us all say the same thing: You can't have an, you can't have an accessory building on it without a primary residence. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Okay. Let me ask you this question then. It might have already been asked. Once -- if we approve that -- MR. BEY: Yeah. CHAIRMAN MONROE: -- and the property is split and he builds a house on there -- MR. BEY: Yeah. CHAIRMAN MONROE: -- with the barn -- MR. BEY: Sure. CHAIRMAN MONROE: -- existing, then it becomes a, a legitimate --
23 MR. BEY: Yeah. CHAIRMAN MONROE: -- piece of property? MR. BEY: All he's doing is asking you so he can move forward with his permits. If, if you want me to go completely -- you want my opinion, I would do the same thing he's doing, period. I wouldn't want the barn on my property too. MR. CALCEI: Mr. Monroe, we had a similar situation with Mr. Gault who was further along the process. But when he got kicked out of his property over in Springfield, he had to get his car collection out. So, he had to build his pole building first. And because of his situation, we -- the Board approved that. CHAIRMAN MONROE: I know. MR. CALCEI: So, it's kind of a similar situation, where the circumstance kind of puts you in a position to -- CHAIRMAN MONROE: We always say each circumstance is on its own. MR. CALCEI: Yeah. MR. BEY: Uhm-huhm. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Just because we do it for one person doesn't mean we necessarily do it for another. But the -- because of the circumstances.
24 But... MR. DUMA: I make a motion -- No one has any other questions? CHAIRMAN MONROE: Well, let me see what we need to do here. Do we have any questions from the audience first before we continue on? MR. DUMA: What's that? MS. VINCENT: He asked if anyone in the audience would like to ask a question. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Okay. Do I hear a motion from the Board? MR. DUMA: So, the new lot is approved for septic; right? MR. BEY: The is. The farmhouse is not yet. MR. DUMA: I make a motion to approve wanting to split the lot, have the existing barn on the whatever acreage it is, acres. MR. BEY: We can write "lot split as requested." CHAIRMAN MONROE: Do I hear a second? MR. EINLOTH: I'll second that. MR. BEY: Give me one second. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Will you read the motion? MR. BEY: Give me one second.
25 CHAIRMAN MONROE: We will. When you have the time. MR. BEY: Motion was made by Mr. Duma to approve the lot split as requested with the existing barn being located on the new lot, seconded by Mr. Einloth. All in favor of the motion? Mr. Weakland? MR. WEAKLAND: Yes. MR. BEY: Ms. Vincent? MS. VINCENT: Yes. MR. BEY: Mr. Duma? MR. DUMA: Yes. MR. BEY: Mr. Einloth? MR. EINLOTH: Yep. MR. BEY: Mr. Monroe? CHAIRMAN MONROE: Yes. MR. BEY: Motion carries. So you guys, that's -- you guys have that. Lori will get you guys a letter out. That way you can -- because Regional Planning is going to ask for it. MR. SPICKARD: Okay. MR. BEY: Now, the survey, though -- I did check with them -- we will have to have dimensions of the barn from the property line on the survey.
26 MR. SPICKARD: Okay. MR. BEY: You know what I mean? MR. SPICKARD: On the Mylar? MR. BEY: Yes. Because you won't be able to sign it without. Because the biggest reason is twofold: One, we, per zoning, we have certain dimensions that it has to be away from the property lines. MR. SPICKARD: Right. MR. BEY: Sixty feet from the front, from the side. You guys are 0 and. So, you're fine. But they want to see them. MR. SPICKARD: Okay. MR. BEY: Any further discussion? None. Yes. MR. PRETTYMAN: How come you can't have a barn on a vacant lot, you know, like acres? Why can't you just have a barn there? MR. BEY: The real reason? Because we have people living in skid sheds right now. MR. PRETTYMAN: Oh, okay. MR. BEY: There is one on Mishler Road, if you'd like to see it, down by Pontius. MR. CALCEI: Somebody can put up a pole building and put an apartment in the corner and then
27 live there. So, that's, that's why we don't do that. MR. BEY: It's not even a rule that we came up with. CHAIRMAN MONROE: And at the same time, I think as a Board we try to look at the positive things for our neighbors, try to help you out the best we can, if it's possible. And in cases like this, we, we go against the norm. Because the norm is not to go for an accessory building, which is a barn or any, any kind of a building, without the primary residence. But common sense a lot of times tells us, "Look. This is not a bad idea." And we're going to go with it. And that's the way it is. MR. BEY: You need a motion to adjourn. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Okay. Do I hear a motion to adjourn? MS. VINCENT: I move that we adjourn. CHAIRMAN MONROE: Okay. This meeting is adjourned. MR. DUMA: I'll second that. MR. BEY: All in favor, "aye"? (The Board responded with "aye.") (The hearing concluded at : p.m.)
28 C E R T I F I C A T E STATE OF OHIO COUNTY OF STARK I, Jocelyn S. Lombardi, RPR, Notary Public in and for the State of Ohio, do hereby certify that the January,, hearing was to the best of my ability reduced to machine shorthand, afterwards transcribed under my direction by means of computer, and that to the best of my ability the foregoing is a true and correct transcript of the hearing. I further certify that this hearing was taken at the time and place in the foregoing caption specified. I further certify that I am not a relative or employee of an attorney of any of the parties in the above-captioned action and that I am not under a contract as defined in Ohio Civil Rule (D). IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand at Hartville, Ohio, on January 0,. /s/ Jocelyn S. Lombardi, RPR, Notary Public I was commissioned as Jocelyn S. Harhay. My Commission expires: June,.