OFFICIAL MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION May 9, 2012

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1 OFFICIAL MINUTES PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION May 9, 2012 Members present: Clay Breaud, Marguerite Erwin, Mark Kearns and Robert Mire Members absent: Melvin Adams Also present: Errol Price, Zoning Administrator, Roland Soignet, Building Official, Ruby Maggio, Secretary, and Kathryn Adams, Secretary Mr. Breaud stated ok, we ve been provided a copy of the minutes for the April 11 th, 2012 meeting. I would entertain a motion to accept. Ms. Erwin stated I move to accept the minutes as mailed for the April 11 th meeting. Mr. Breaud stated moved by Ms. Erwin, seconded by Mr. Kearns. All in favor signify by saying aye. All members were in favor. Mr. Breaud stated motion carries. Thank you. The next item on the agenda under old business is: To consider a request by Errol J. Price Zoning Administrator to amend Article XIV Amendments, 2 nd paragraph with the addition of, When revisions or changes are proposed to zoning district boundaries, a door hanger shall be placed on all adjacent structures located within 100 of the proposed change or revision. prior to the last sentence in the paragraph. Mr. Breaud stated he s provided us on the next sheet the amendments the way it s written now, and what you are proposing to do is to add this door hanger. Mr. Price stated yes it would fall in right here. Mr. Breaud stated so about the second or third to last paragraph on the, the third paragraph of amendments he would insert that sentence. This is what we spoke about last month if you all recall. We had some residents that weren t aware that we were considering rezoning, adjacent people because the people in the zoning district had been notified. This is people within a hundred feet of the proposed rezoning, that they would hang door hangers. This is kind of a good faith effort you know it s something to try to aware the public of what is going on. Any comments on this? Anybody? Further from the administration? Errol? Roland, anymore comments? Mr. Price stated I have none. Mr. Breaud asked any public comments on that? I know some of you guys were here last meeting that wanted to be more notified. This is an option to do that. It would put a door hanger on some of you guys adjacent to it. Mr. Hebert you want to come give us your name and address for the record? Mr. Hebert stated Eddie Hebert, 727 Rosedown. Just for the sake of some clarification, which I don t quite understand, what is a door hanger? Mr. Kearns stated like a do not disturb. Mr. Hebert asked like a what? Mr. Kearns repeated like a do not disturb. Mr. Hebert stated oh ok. Ms. Erwin stated like politicians put on the door. Mr. Breaud stated and that would require a little labor on the City s part I guess. They would send a person out there and hang that on each individual s door. Mr. Price stated that s correct. What we plan on doing, we have some plastic, it s like a plastic bag with a hook that we can put on the door knob, and we actually would place the agenda and either highlight or have something showing what sections so they know exactly. Mr. Donnes stated Jeff Donnes, 218 Abigail. I m just curious, Errol for zoning and/or variances are we supposed to do a 250 or for 100 feet? Mr. Price stated there s actually nothing in the books right now. Mr. Donnes asked there s not? Mr. Price continued it s only in the subdivision development, it requires 100 feet. That s why I copied the same thing as the subdivision development. Mr. Breaud stated there s regulations in the subdivision regulations already. This would be adding it to the zoning. Mr. Donnes stated good thank you. Mr. Breaud asked any other comments from the public? If not I ll entertain a motion, moved by Mr. Kearns. You want to state that motion Mr. Kearns? Mr. Kearns stated I make a motion that we accept the revisions as presented by Errol Price, Zoning Administrator to insert when revisions and or changes are proposed to zoning district boundaries, a door hanger shall be placed on all adjacent structures located within 100 of the proposed change or revision. Mr. Breaud stated it s been moved by Mr. Kearns, seconded by Mr. Mire, any further discussion? If not, all in favor signify by saying aye. All members were in favor. Mr. Breaud stated motion carries, thank you. The next item under old business is: To consider a request by Errol J. Price, Zoning Administrator to re-zone property along E. 1 st Street beginning from the intersection of St. Charles Street and center line of E. 1 st Street heading east along E. 1 st St. 180 then going north to center of Bayou Lafourche, then going west to Canal Blvd, then going south to side property line of 107 Canal Boulevard, then going east to center line of Narrow St., then south to the rear property line of 206 E. 1 st Street, then going east to center line of Lagarde Street then going north 75 along center 1

2 line of Lagarde Street, then going east to center line of St. Charles Street, then going north 106 along the center line of St. Charles St. to E. 1 st Street from an R-2 Zoning District to a C- 2 Zoning District. Mr. Breaud stated and I m sure you all followed that. Mr. Kearns stated exactly. Mr. Breaud stated but there is a map. There is a map if those in the public don t have, want to see a better description. This is a little bit different than what was presented last month. We have included the batture property along LA 1, between the bayou and LA 1 and changed somewhat the half of the lots between LA 1 and 2 nd Street. If anyone is interested in seeing that map, we can show it to you. There was much discussion last month on this issue from what was presented the prior month. There was somewhat of a compromise I guess. There was some objections on both sides. So, tonight we are here to discuss it again and to come up with a recommendation back to the City Council. Comments? Ms. Erwin stated my comments are since the City is Mr. Breaud stated wait let s do this correct again. Give me a motion to discuss. Ms. Erwin stated so moved. Mr. Breaud stated moved by Ms. Erwin, seconded by Mr. Kearns. Ok, discussion. Ms. Erwin stated ok, the City is in negotiations or has already hired a planning, really just to go through the whole thing. I think that we should put this on hold and let the experts come back with a recommendation. Mr. Breaud stated ok. We have Ms. Erwin s option. Mr. Mire asked how long would that be on hold? Ms. Erwin stated it will be put on hold for over a year. Mr. Mire stated I think they are going to get South Central Planning to do that. Ms. Erwin stated no, it s not South Central Planning. Ryan s here. He can give us the details if he doesn t mind. Mr. Perque stated Ryan Perque, Administrative Assistant to the Mayor. It s actually a contract we signed with Center for Planning Excellence. They are a firm based out of Baton Rouge. They also brought in with the contract some attorneys that specialize in land development. It is about a month, I m sorry, a year long process, and we have our kick off meeting on May 30 th. So, we will begin the process this month as far as going into the entire zoning study. Mr. Mire asked it s going to be at least a year from now? Mr. Perque stated yes sir. Mr. Mire stated I m agreeable if everybody else is. Mr. Breaud stated well let s hear everybody s comments? Mr. Kearns you have comments? Mr. Kearns stated you know I think it s something that s been brought before us, and I think we should address it. We ll get the report back in a year assuming there s no hold up and then you still have to digest that report. Then you still have to make recommendations based on that report. I don t look for that to happen within a year s time. It s brought before us because people want a remedy one way, shape, form on this. I think we owe it to both sides. Mr. Breaud stated let me throw another option out here as a thought that I had. Now that we ve changed the boundaries of this area, it s a pretty large, I want to say it s about 5 or 7 acres. It s a pretty large area. If we wanted to rezone this something other than the C-2, you know I wouldn t consider and this is my opinion to be a spot zone. So, if we wanted to do something a little more restrictive than C-2, bring it into a C-1, possibly an R-4. That s another option that we could do which would make it more restrictive up against the adjacent property owners that have concerns right now. It s another kind of compromise in a way to go from a commercial district to something a little more restrictive back to the R-2 district that the adjacent property owners are, another option for discussion. Mr. Kearns? Mr. Kearns stated I received a phone call this afternoon from Tony Lafasso, expressing some interest in this. During the course of the conversation, we sort of talked about the possibility, not the possibility but the concept of a mixed use zone. In other words, not actually going to C-2, not actually going in R-4 because there are things in both of those zones they probably would not want to see in their neighborhood, but creating another category that would take from both of those zones and create a mixed use zone where you have an established R-2 and now you are going to bring in some commercial. I know we talk about Coastal Bank, and Burger King, and the old Danny and Clyde s are there, but we ve also included now the batture section so other things can happen in that. So, I would agree with you. Ms. Erwin stated well the R-4 is a mixed use. Mr. Kearns stated it is a mixed use, but there s also some things in an R-4 you may not want to see brought into an established R-2. Mr. Breaud stated my thoughts if we wanted to go in that direction, if we start going to creating mixed use districts well then we ought to wait until this consulting comes out and do their study of the whole town because this may affect other areas, and they may want to do this in other areas of the town. If we wanted to go in that direction, I would say we hold off. Now, it s nothing to say that we can t act on this tonight and change it a year from now again. So, any other comments by the commissioners? Administration has any comments on this? Mr. Price stated no really whatever this board decides would be fine. Mr. Breaud stated well let s get comments from the public because I know you all didn t come here for nothing. Ms. Goodrow stated my name Carrie Goodrow and I live at 304 East 2 nd directly across from this proposed change. I really thought long and hard about this and taking into consideration that you spoke to Mr. Lafasso, several years ago when all this issue came up with him and the property that he purchased on East 1 st Street, he was not allowed to do what he wanted to do because the neighborhood stood up against what his plan was, and I don t know all the particulars but it didn t pass. The neighborhood had a voice. I feel we have a voice. I don t want to walk out on my front porch and be greeted by dumpsters across the street. I don t want that. I m in a position right now where I m retired. If that becomes a neighborhood that is not desirable, sure I could move, but I would have to go into debt to do it as would a lot of people in my situation. You all stated at the February meeting that there s been some controversy. I know Mr. Price and I spoke after the meeting last month, and as far as when zoning laws were established. I thought it was the early 70s. You corrected me and said it was in the late 60s. In the February meeting you stated Mr. Breaud that you don t know how Burger King even came into existence because it was zoned an R-3 at the time. You know that administration has come and gone. We all have to live harmoniously in what has been built and what has been put there. I have no objection to that. I am asking you to please stop commercial encroachment in our neighborhood. Thank you. 2

3 Mr. Breaud stated thank you. Further comments? Mr. Hodnett stated Malcolm Hodnett, 322 East 2 nd Street. First of all, I agree with Marguerite s suggestion that it be tabled. You mentioned Lafasso. Does he own property in this area? Mr. Kearns stated he was speaking in terms of the creation of another zoning district. Mr. Hodnett stated ok, but we re the residents that live here. He has nothing to do with this area. I object to the fact that he is kind of saying well we should go ahead and rezone it. Well, he doesn t live in our neighborhood. Mr. Kearns replied no, no, no. Excuse me, if that s the impression I gave you, I gave you the wrong impression. What Mr. Lafasso is actually saying is, you know what, maybe C-2 is too wide open and maybe R-4 still contains things that may not be palatable to people in that neighborhood. Maybe the better idea is to come up with a new kind of district that would work because the same thing that happens in this proposed section won t be limited to this section. There are other sections of Thibodaux as we stated in other meetings that will fall into this same scenario. So, you can t impact one part of the city without impacting all parts of the city. Mr. Hodnett stated I disagree with that. Mr. Kearns stated that s certainly your right. Mr. Hodnett stated you need to point out on a map where other parts are affected the same way this is. I disagree with that. The other thing I want to point out is, let s look at the map. You ve got Copy Connection which is already there. You ve got the dentist office, which is already there. You ve got the lease space that Jello owns the building. That s the batture. The other additional piece of property was owned by Demitasse. They had originally bought that, and they were going to do a coffee shop, a drive up coffee shop there. Ok, so that s properties for sale. That s the only piece of property right now that is in question. Those three pieces of property that are on batture have already been spoken for. The buildings are already there and they are already occupied by business. The corner, now let s go back to the other side of LA 1. Capital One bank is already there; it s occupied. Burger King is there, and the Burger King, we ll go back, Burger King s the one who started all this. That s why I m not sure why you all feel like you have to rush into a decision because I don t see where there s any need to change anything. Burger King has been, Errol would explain how Burger King has been accommodated? Mr. Price stated well, they haven t been accommodated for everything. They couldn t enlarge. Mr. Hodnett stated but it s gone before the Board of Adjustments. Mr. Price stated no, it has not. Mr. Hodnett asked ok, so they are adding on to their cooler or no? Mr. Price stated no sir, they re not. Mr. Hodnett asked ok, but is that on pending for the Board of Adjustments? Mr. Price stated no sir, they are not going to the Board of Adjustments. Mr. Hodnett asked ok, so what is their option right now? What are they pursuing? Mr. Price stated they are just going to live with what they got, what the ordinance says. Mr. Hodnett stated ok. Ok, so Burger King is an occupied piece of property. Danny and Clyde s is being renovated right now as a convenient store. So, that s an occupied piece of property. You re cutting in half Skipper Holloway s property by the projected zone, and that is already a business in itself, and I don t see that going away anytime soon either. So, the only two pieces of, and the next piece of property is Palazzo s property, and that s being cut in half by the proposal. So, he has a limited amount of space that he would even be able to potentially turn into a business. So, the only 2 pieces of property that are in question is the back half of Palazzo s property, which is personally I don t see how he s going to be able to do very much once you cut that in half and the batture, which is next to the dentist office. Backing up, you re talking about being a C-2. I don t see why the Holiday Inn or Carmel Inn was ever zoned a C-2 to begin with. It didn t have to be. It could have been an R-3 based on the way the R-3 proposal, I mean the R-3 description was based because motels were allowed a conditional use in an R-3 back before it was revised. So, I guess my point is, I don t understand why, I think Marguerite s suggestion is a very valid suggestion. I think it should go back. Wait a year. Nobody in this room right now is in a hurry to see this rezoned, and I don t see what the rush is. I think waiting a year is not that painful especially if you are basing it on Mr. Palazzo s property. He hasn t done anything with that in 14 years. I think he can wait one more year to see how this all pans out, but I don t see the need, first to do anything. I don t see the need for it to be a C-2 and really you are adjacent to an R-4. I m not wild about R-4, and since you pointed out Clay that this is not spot zoning, then there would be really no reason to rezone this as an R-3 if that s what you insist on doing, but I think based on the people who are here, the residents, they are more than willing to wait a year and see how this all pans out. I wish you would consider tabling it, thank you. Mr. Breaud stated thank you for your comments. Further public comments? Any other comments from the public? Mr. Kearns asked would the city like to comment? Ms. Erwin stated I think you have someone. Mr. Breaud stated oh, Mr. Hebert. Mr. Hebert stated Eddie Hebert, 727 Rosedown Drive. I don t live in that neighborhood, but I m very much concerned about that neighborhood. Certainly I can understand where some of the citizens are opposed to having maybe commercial type businesses next to their home, but I m very active with the Garden Club and the Beautification Coalition. I ve very much concerned about the aesthetic beauty of the neighborhoods, any neighborhood that s in the city of Thibodaux. That particular neighborhood has some homes that are just abandoned. I m talking about this huge home that s behind Burger King. We don t dare go down that street; just don t dare go down the street when the judges are here because some of those homes are so poorly kept. That particular home looks like it s about to fall down. The Danos home, you know, is abandoned. It needs some upkeep, and there are some residential homes along that street too that the grass is real tall. They got junk all over the place. I mean we just don t dare take the judges down there. I think something needs to be done in that area. I m not saying that you have to make that decision tonight, but I think we need to think carefully about how we approach this. Maybe we need to rezone it like you re talking about; I m not quite sure, but I do know holding it off another year. Maybe the house will fall down by that time and then they will just flip it away or something. I don t know, but it definitely needs to be addressed. I mean we have to do something with that. Ms. Erwin asked are 3

4 you talking about the house directly behind Burger King? Mr. Hebert stated yes, the house Ms. Erwin stated ok, that one s not even considered to be rezoned. Mr. Hebert asked it was not even considered? Mr. Breaud stated but the other house has been vacant, which house is that? Ms. Erwin stated well I m assuming you re talking about this house right here. Mr. Hebert stated I didn t see that. Ok, I didn t see that. I didn t see that section. Ms. Erwin stated its not part of the Mr. Hebert stated ok, I didn t see this new, I had the old one. Thank you anyhow, that s all the comments I have. The board replied thank you. Mr. Breaud stated I guess my question I was going to ask you Errol, and he spoke about beautification. If any one of these business, the bank, the dentist office, Burger King s already doing their thing, but Copy Connection, if they wanted to beautify their place, or let s suppose we have a hurricane that comes and pretty much destroys their building, would they be allowed to make improvements to beautify what they ve got now under the zone that they are in? Mr. Price stated as long as they do it within 18 months, but they cannot enlarge it. Mr. Breaud asked they can only build back? Mr. Donnes asked are they a nonconforming structure in this zone today? Mr. Breaud and Ms. Erwin replied yes. Mr. Price replied correct. Mr. Donnes asked were they a non-conforming structure when they were built? Mr. Price stated we can t answer; don t know when they were built. Mr. Donnes stated that was one of my questions, and I get my Mr. Breaud stated to make, and let me expand a little bit on what you are saying, I mean, if we went a step further to make it a least restrictive district, they maybe able to conform. Mr. Price stated that is correct. Mr. Breaud stated go ahead Mr. Donnes. Mr. Donnes stated that was one of my questions. I m curious because Clay you ve been on this thing for 15 years, and Marguerite you ve been on here for 12 years. You see what goes on with, and I don t know if you all saw when the city hired the last group that came in for their study. Do you think that those guys know more about Thibodaux than you all? Mr. Breaud stated I m not going to answer that question. Mr. Donnes continued do you think those guys care more about Thibodaux than you guys sitting on the board? And wait, either way you all do it, I much prefer somebody locally taking care of what I m doing than somebody from out of town saying oh I think this because they don t know. Mr. Breaud stated well the approach the mayor s taking I think, and Ryan s here he can answer for him. He s hiring this firm to come make a recommendation. The mayor is going to establish a board that s going to study those regulations. Once they do that, then they are going to come back to this planning commission, then it s going to go to the City Council so it s not like they are going to slip something up that the people don t want. It s going to be multiple public hearings and all of this stuff, so it s just to get ideas from a firm that does that kind of business. I don t have any problem with them presenting something. It doesn t mean we have to agree to what they are presenting. Ms. Erwin stated I m hoping they do come back with some type of recommendation as Mark has said in several meetings that possibly there is a mixed use. Mr. Kearns stated yes, yes. Ms. Erwin stated ok, and that everyone can live, and we don t have that on... Mr. Donnes stated we really don t. Ms. Erwin continued we do not have, we have mixed use, but we don t have. Mr. Donnes stated we allowed Jake to come in and do his own zone. However they did, they manipulated it to a way that makes sense in today s market. Mr. Breaud stated the big different with that is is that it was created before anybody moved in or anybody bought a lot, so they knew what they were buying when they moved in. It s a little bit different when you have existing structures that are there now and you go change the zone from what exists now. It s a big difference. Mr. Donnes stated right, but I mean the idea of the mixed use is a new common term that we re all going to. That s something that we ought to look at. You know, C-2 is probably way out there. Ms. Erwin stated ok. Mr. Breaud replied thank you for your comments. Mr. Hodnett asked may I clarify, sir? Councilman Hebert says he doesn t drive down my street, and frankly I take that personally. Mr. Hebert replied I m sorry. Mr. Hodnett stated the 2 houses that he s referring to, one of them is Mr. Palazzo s property, oh boy! That s that one that s been sitting there for 14 years. He could have sold that property. That property could have been turned into residential 14 years ago, but they chose, the family chose not to do that because they wanted the big bucks because they thought they could turn it into commercial. They didn t bother to read the zoning ordinance. The other property is the old Larose property, and that s not even included in the zoning. I think we all as residents take pride in our property. We take pride in our street. So, I just wanted to clarify that, thank you. Mr. Breaud asked anymore comments from the public? If not, I see three options. Go ahead Ryan. Mr. Perque stated real quick in response to Mr. Donnes comments about the study that is being performed. If there was a land use specialist in town, we certainly would have used that firm. Unfortunately, there s not so that s why we chose to go with Center for Planning Excellence. It is a very in depth study. They are not going to ride around Thibodaux, think whatever they think is best, go put it on a piece of paper, present it to us and that s what is going to pass. It s very involved with our City Council, Planning and Zoning, Board of Adjustments, and at it s core, they have what they call a code committee, which is comprised of architects, engineers, land developers, and so on, and one of the members of that code is from your firm Mr. Donnes. So, I think we ll have good representation, and the public will be very involved in it as well. So, it will be a lot of feedback. They go back to their drawing boards. They jot some stuff down, come back to us. So, it s a lot of back and forth. It s not just something that they are going to, it won t be a hundred-page report that they slap on the desk and say do what you want with it. It s a lot more in depth than that. Mr. Breaud stated thank you. Mr. Hebert one more comment? Mr. Hebert stated first of, Eddie Hebert, first of all just to clarify something, I did not come here to criticize anybodies property, but there is some properties that are absolutely unsightly, and I just wanted to point that out to you. You know, maybe we don t want commercial things to come in, but sometimes the commercial things that come in look better than what was there. Like I said, I m certainly not here to criticize anybody s property, but if the shoe fits wear it. 4

5 That s all I can say, but nonetheless, thank you for listening to me. Mr. Breaud stated thank you. Ok, I see three options on the table for the commissioners right now. One of them would be to deny the request to rezone; one of them would be to go ahead and rezone it C-2 like it s purposed or the third option would be to rezone it something less than a C-2, and we can do that. It was advertised to go to C-2, but we can do that only because we are making it more restrictive than it was advertised. If we would be going the other way, we couldn t do it. Basically, I see that to be the three options so I would entertain a motion from somebody that wants to make a motion. Ms. Erwin stated I move to deny the request. Mr. Breaud stated it s been moved by Ms. Erwin to deny. Mr. Mire stated I ll second it. Mr. Breaud continued second by Mr. Mire. We will have a role call vote, Ruby. Ms. Maggio stated Melvin, I m sorry Clay. Mr. Breaud stated no. Ms. Maggio stated Marguerite. Ms. Erwin stated yes. Ms. Maggio stated Robert Mire. Mr. Mire stated yes. Ms. Maggio stated Mark Kearns. Mr. Kearns stated no. Mr. Breaud stated ok, motion fails because we don t have a majority. Do I have another motion? Anyone want to make another motion on this issue? Mr. Mire stated motion to table, but that s not going to solve the problem. Mr. Breaud stated if you table, what are you tabling, until next month and readdress it again next month, or table it permanently? We just voted on a table I guess. Ms. Erwin stated that s basically what you were doing. Mr. Breaud asked further direction? I think the point that Mr. Kearns was trying to make is that this has been on the table. He just felt like he wanted to take action on it I guess. Mr. Kearns stated one way or the other. I m still of the opinion, and I m just saying, I m still of the opinion that we need to create the mixed use zone. Mr. Breaud stated well if we did that, I mean your motion could be to delay action on this until the consultant does their thing, and creates, and I think Marguerite was almost there with her motion, and maybe she should have included in her motion that we wait until the consultant comes back with their recommendations. Similar to what her motion was, but just tacking on the reason for the wait I guess or no action at this time. Does somebody want to make that motion? Ms. Erwin stated Mr. Kearns you can make that motion, mine was just to deny. Mr. Kearns stated ok. I make the motion that we delay creating a mixed use zone until we get the city s report in. Mr. Breaud asked so you are also making a motion to delay any action of rezoning this property until a consultant comes in and studies the mixed use zone to see if that fits this situation? Mr. Kearns stated that s correct. Mr. Breaud asked is that basically your motion? Anybody want to second that motion? You all understand that motion? Ms. Erwin replied not really, but that s Mr. Breaud stated the motion s basically the same thing you had, Marguerite, but he s giving a reason I guess to delay action on it until the consultant does their study, which maybe a year, year and a half away before they come back with it. I ll second the motion. Ms. Erwin stated I mean this request, ok well good because that s the only way we can discuss it. Alright. Mr. Breaud stated I ll second that motion, so Marguerite can discuss it. Ms. Erwin stated I mean this request is to change the zoning from R-2 to C-2. So, we re just going to table it? Mr. Breaud stated he s not tabling it, he s delaying action. Ms. Erwin replied delaying action, so what is that going to do? Does that mean, Errol, they don t have to resubmit it. Mr. Price stated that s correct. If you re tabling it, you don t have to resubmit it. Ms. Erwin asked ok, that s the only thing that it changes? To denying it versus, so they don t have to resubmit it and it stays just like it is? Just want to make sure. Mr. Breaud stated it stays an R-2 zone until that time. Ms. Erwin stated no, that s not my question Clay. Errol understands. Mr. Price stated basically I mean you can table it indefinitely, but I can t answer you on whether there is a time period. Ms. Erwin stated yes is there a time period. Mr. Price continued but it s actually going to, it s just going to evaporate if you don t hear it in a certain period of time I m not sure the exact time period, but I think that s the way it happens. Ms. Erwin stated ok, thank you. Mr. Breaud stated this is our recommendation. Now, it can come back two months from now, and we can bring it back again, but our recommendation at this time is to go to the council and tell them not to change it right now until the study s complete, the consultant does his study, and comes back with a recommendation. That s Mr. Kearns motion. Mr. Kearns stated yeah, unless the council comes back to us and charges us with creating a mixed use zone. Mr. Breaud stated they can make any request they want of us, but we don t necessarily have to do it either. Mr. Kearns stated well, I m just saying, that s part of what could happen. Mr. Breaud stated ok, we have a motion and a second on the floor, any further discussion? If not, role call vote, Ruby. Ms. Erwin stated please restate the motion. I m sorry. Mr. Breaud stated well we need to understand the motion. Ms. Erwin stated yeah, I just want to make sure that we understand what we are voting on first. Mr. Breaud asked Mr. Kearns, you want to state it. Mr. Kearns replied if I understand the motion correctly, it is to delay action on creating a mixed use zone for this section of property until such time as the City comes back with a recommendation. Ms. Erwin repeated to delay action to create a mixed use Mr. Price stated I don t know why you have to make a motion for this to delay. Mr. Breaud stated I don t know if we want to say delay the mixed use, I say we want to delay action on this property until such time that we get the recommendation from the consultant to do it. Mr. Kearns stated right, correct. Ms. Erwin stated and that would be to table it. Mr. Breaud asked you got that motion, Ruby? The motion is to delay any action to rezone this property until the consultant for the city comes back to us with a recommendation of rezoning the property. Agreed, Mark? Mr. Kearns stated agreed. Mr. Breaud stated that was your motion; I second that motion. Everybody understand the motion? Roll call please, Ruby. Ms. Maggio stated Clay. Mr. Breaud stated yes. Ms. Maggio stated Marguerite. Ms. Erwin stated no. Ms. Maggio stated Robert. Mr. Mire stated yes. Ms. Maggio stated Mark. Mr. Kearns stated yes. Mr. Breaud stated ok, motion carries 3 to 1. So, that s the recommendation we re sending to the City Council. Alright, next item on the agenda on new business, item number 7 is: 5

6 To consider a request by Councilman Chip Badeaux to discuss and recommend revisions to Section Parking Space Dimensions pertaining to minimum design standards in laying out off-street parking by allowing a minimum of 8 ½ to a maximum of 10 stall width for each parking space required. Mr. Breaud stated in our zoning regulations, we have requirements on parking spaces is now 10 feet. We have in our package that sheet that identifies different parking angles, stalls widths, aisle widths, stall lengths, and curb to curb dimensions. Right now, our present ordinance is 10 foot wide parking spaces. You all have been in parking spaces, commercial parking spaces. Sometimes they are tight. Sometimes you can hardly get out the car without hitting the next car. So, I want you all to give this consideration. In driving here tonight, I decided I had a tape measure in my car so I said let me measure a few parking spaces over here. I stopped by the Western Sizzlin, they have 10 foot spacing. I stopped by Stage. They have a double line parking, but their spacing is 11 foot. The Dollar General has 9 ½ feet. Cane s has 10 feet. Quality Inn has 10 feet. CVS has 9 feet. Rouses has 10 feet. Anytime Fitness has 10 feet. Acadian Truck Stop has 9 ½ feet. Walgreens has 9 feet. City Hall has 10 feet. The DA s office across the street has 9 feet. I didn t find any 8 ½ feet. I didn t stop by Burger King, I apologize. It wasn t on my Mr. Clayton stated it s 10 feet. Mr. Breaud repeated its 10 feet, 10 feet. So, I want to give you all an idea. You know, if we re trying to address something, and we ll turn it over to Errol, are we trying to address an isolated area. Do we want to make this an ordinance of a minimum of 8 foot, and I m not sure why we would want to make a maximum of 10 foot because if someone wants to make it 12 feet wide, let them do so. Ms. Erwin stated right, right. That s my one thing. 8 ½ seems really tight. Mr. Kearns asked Mr. Chairman do we need a motion to discuss this? Mr. Breaud stated I m sorry, yeah. Do I have a motion to discuss this issue? Mr. Kearns stated I make a motion. Mr. Breaud stated moved by Mr. Kearns, second by Mr. Mire. Alright, discussion that we started already. Trying to follow the rules. Any comments? Everybody understand what the request is, and you all are familiar with parking spaces. I didn t try to select, I hit these at random because they were on my way in. I didn t try to go around town to try to find something 8 ½ feet wide. Errol, you want to give us some insight on what is the, has the city been having problems with this parking width. Mr. Price stated basically this was put on and requested by Councilman Chip Badeaux. As far as the inspection department and myself, I ll talk for myself then Roland can comment. Basically, the problem we run into is that the state standard is 9 by 18. I addressed this a few years back, and it was voted on to stay 10 by 20. Mr. Breaud asked what are you calling the state standards? Subdivision regulations, state highway? Mr. Price stated state highway my understanding is. Basically the information I am receiving is from, I don t recall right now, but what I m calling the state standard is basically when I m talking with engineers they are telling me this is the state standard, 9 by 18. I have not seen it in writing. We always went to with 10 by 20. I don t really have an issue with it. It s a little surprise to most of the contractors when they come into town to say that its 10 foot wide instead of 9. Roland if you want to comment. Mr. Soignet stated I like the 10 by 20. Where I live in Vacherie it s 9 by 18 and 9 is tight. 9 is really tight with full-sized vehicles 9 is tight. Mr. Breaud stated you know my carport under my house is 20 feet wide, and when my wife parks her car not down the center, I have trouble getting out when I come in. So, I painted a yellow line on there. Mr. Kearns jokingly stated but she always parks correctly. Mr. Breaud stated any more comments from the commission? Any public comments on this issue? Mr. Hodnett stated you get to see me twice today. Malcolm Hodnett, 322 East 2 nd Street. I m an architect by profession so whenever I do a parking lot, I m doing 10 by 20 spaces with 62 feet, if their 90 degree parking, I do 62 feet. I find with SUV s 10 feet, anything less than 10 feet is tight. Now, until gas gets to be 6 or 7 dollars a gallon, I think SUV s are going to be with us. Anything narrower than 10 feet, I just think that s too narrow. I also recommend that 62 feet be the minimum, with a 90 degree, and I know you are not considering that now, but that s how I arrive at it. I do a 20 foot space, 20 foot space, 22 foot drive. It seems to work better, and I can tell immediately when I m driving in a parking lot that s any difference in those dimensions, it s tough to get in and out. With suburbans and whatnot, it s hard to get in and out. Thanks. Mr. Breaud stated and our regulations are set up where there s got 62 feet from back curbing, existing regulations. I know people spend a lot of money on vehicles and they don t want to see that the guy next door opened their doors and hit your car and scratched it up so that s another consideration to be given. Any further public comments? Any more comments from the commissioner? Anybody want to make a motion? Mr. Kearns stated I make a motion we deny the request. Ms. Erwin stated second. Mr. Breaud stated moved by Mr. Kearns, second by Ms. Erwin, and let s clarify the motion. The motion is to deny the request and to leave the parking dimensions as originally stated in the subdivision regulations. Mr. Kearns stated correct, 10 by 20. Mr. Breaud stated and it s got different angle parking all set up, but 90 degree parking is there. Roll call vote please, Ruby. Ms. Maggio stated Clay. Mr. Breaud stated yes. Ms. Maggio stated Marguerite. Ms. Erwin stated yes. Ms. Maggio stated Robert. Mr. Mire stated yes. Ms. Maggio stated Mark. Mr. Kearns stated yes. Alright the next item under new business is: The City Council would like to amend Article IX of the Zoning Ordinance (Board of Adjustments: Establishment and Procedure) to include that all members of the Board of adjustments shall be landowners and qualified voters of the City of Thibodaux, in accordance with LA R.S. 33:4727. Mr. Breaud asked now this only pertains to the Board of Adjustments, this wouldn t pertain to this board? Mr. Price stated the information that I have according to the Council Administrator, that she s handling the part as far as the Planning and Zoning. I actually don t know the Louisiana law, if it requires it to come here or not or if the Council can make and ordinance, but she asked me just to put this one on, that she s handling Planning 6

7 and Zoning. Ms. Erwin stated well if this passes this motion, couldn t we just make a recommendation that it also be for Planning and Zoning. Mr. Breaud stated we can make that recommendation, but let s act on this and then provided it doesn t conflict with state law. Ms. Erwin asked do you know why? Mr. Breaud asked who are you asking? Ms. Erwin stated both. Mr. Kearns asked Mr. Chairman can we make a motion to discuss this? Mr. Breaud stated yes, you want to make a motion Mr. Kearns. Mr. Kearns stated before we start voting. Mr. Breaud stated before we start discussing it. Somebody want to make a motion to discuss? Moved by Mr. Kearns, second by Mr. Mire. Alright, we started discussion already. Marguerite, who were you trying to address your question to? Ms. Erwin stated either Councilman Hebert or Ryan as the Mayor s Assistant. Just wondered why it was coming just for the Board of Adjustments. Mr. Hebert stated I don t know that I have an answer for that. Ms. Erwin stated I know why its here, but I just thought you might happen to know that. Mr. Hebert stated I really don t. I m sorry; I just, I don t know why. I do know that there are some individuals that might live just outside of the city limits, you know, that have a profound interest in the city. They are good citizens even though they don t live in the city. So, you know if I could just offer that comment to you all. Ms. Erwin stated and I agree with that comment except that things that they vote on and recommendations that they make to the council, could you see, I mean I m just asking, would you want the council represented by somebody outside the city? Mr. Hebert stated no, not on the City Council, because it s the City Council. Mr. Kearns stated this is a city board. Mr. Hebert stated I know it s the city board. I realize that, but like I said I know there are some citizens that do not live in the city limits that are good citizens and have the interest of the city at heart. Ms. Erwin stated oh no doubt. Mr. Hebert continued I certainly don t see, I guess I m putting my foot in my mouth. Mr. Mire asked where s the boundary lines going to end? Ms. Erwin stated I just don t want them making rules. Mr. Hebert stated I cannot see where they could not serve. Sometime, it s a little difficult getting people to serve and they are citizens. Ms. Erwin stated oh, I m sure. I am sure. Mr. Hebert stated and there are people that live, so my neighbor lives right outside the city so that means that he doesn t have any interest. Mr. Kearns asked where would you pull the tape to? Like if you re within 10 feet of the sign, or 20 feet? Mr. Hebert stated well I guess that s a good point. I never thought about that. Mr. Mire stated we have to have a boundary line. Mr. Hebert stated I guess you do have to have some boundaries. I never thought about that. I m just thinking about all the good people that live right outside the city limits. Mr. Kearns stated we would all agree with that. Ms. Erwin jokingly stated annex them. Bring them in, annex them, more revenue. Mr. Hebert stated but I could understand. Mr. Breaud stated I may disagree with you all a little bit because I think if you are going to serve on any commission, board, or councilman, I think you ought to live in the city limits and you ought to be a qualified voter. I don t care how good you are outside. Mr. Kearns stated I agree. Ms. Erwin stated I don t think you have any disagreement with you. Mr. Breaud stated so I think what we go on the agenda is fine. My only question is why it s only applying to the Board of Adjustments and not the rest of the board, you know. Let me make one more comment for Mr. Hebert to hear. I ve been on this board like Jeff said I don t know it s been 15 or 20 years. Ms. Erwin stated you re 20. Mr. Breaud stated 20 years, alright. When I first got on this board, there wasn t much to it. We didn t have a written agenda. You know, we had a couple pieces of paper. It wasn t organized, you know, we got it together. We didn t have reliable people. We had million dollar developments that we had to postpone month to month because we couldn t get a quorum on the committee. As of late, I think we got a great board. We got perfect attendance by everybody showing up, and I m saying this because I know what s going on right now. There s some talk about replacing one of the board commissioners you know and the council has the right to do that. They have that right, but I wish they would consider because I ve been on the board and I m not going back to where we ve been. If I can t get reliable people, I m not going to come up here and waste my time and sit up here. You know, I want people that are interested in doing it and is going to be here to do it. We don t get paid a nickel to do this so our interest is here to do it. Ms. Marguerite s been on this thing 15 years now and she s been a reliable member. She s been instrumental in this sign ordinance because this is a very controversial issue and she took heart to that and has done a great job for it. So, I just wanted to make that comment. What s on the agenda tonight again, we don t have a problem with it, our only question is why it only applies to the Board of Adjustments and not this one. My feelings are if you are going to serve on one of these boards, live in the city and be a voter of the city. I know they got great people outside. Come move in the city if you want to give the city some direction. That s my comments. Any further comments? Anymore comments from the public? Mr. Hodnett stated Malcolm Hodnett 322 East 2 nd Street. I was on the Board of Adjustments for many years. We had some reliable people that showed up and came to our meetings as you have too. I think it s ludicrous to have anybody that s on a city board that doesn t live in the city limits. I think that s ridiculous, and I think if you are going to pass this ordinance, you should amend it so that it does include Planning and Zoning because just recently a Council member nominated someone for your board that didn t even live in the city limits, and they were shot down pretty quickly. So, I think the idea of having someone that s on the city board that doesn t live in the city limits is, that s not acceptable. Mr. Breaud stated well we can t make this amendment because it was advertised like this so we have to act on this, but as Marguerite said if she wants to make another recommendation after we pass this motion, or act on this motion I should say we can do that. Mr. Price stated I would like to make a comment a little bit. The reason that I understood that this board cannot vote because Board of Adjustments is part of zoning, so you all have the authority on passing or doing the recommendation for this ordinance, but you don t have the authority to do it to yourself. The city council is going to have to do it. Ms. Erwin stated that makes sense. Mr. Price continued that s why Jenny s telling me that she s going to handle Planning and Zoning, but this 7

8 Board has to do a recommendation to them as far as the Board of Adjustments. Mr. Breaud stated that s a good point. Mr. Kearns stated that clears it up; there you go. Mr. Breaud stated do I have a motion? Anybody want to make a motion? Mr. Mire stated I make a motion to accept as written. Ms. Erwin stated second. Mr. Breaud stated moved by Mr. Mire, second by Ms. Erwin. Roll call vote. Ms. Maggio stated Clay. Mr. Breaud stated yes. Ms. Maggio stated Marguerite. Ms. Erwin stated yes. Ms. Maggio stated Robert. Mr. Mire stated yes. Ms. Maggio stated Mark. Mr. Kearns stated yes. Mr. Breaud asked Marguerite do you want to make anymore recommendations? Ms. Erwin stated not anymore. Not after Errol cleared it up. Mr. Breaud asked any other matters brought before the commission, anything from the administration to report back to us? Anybody else got anything? If not, meeting adjourned. Thank you all for coming. 8

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