OMEGA REAL ESTATE, LLC, IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO PERMIT A DISTANCE OF LESS THAN 200 FEET OF THE NEAREST PORTION OF A DWELLING

Transcription

1 1 STATE OF OHIO COUNTY OF TRUMBULL LORDSTOWN VILLAGE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS PUBLIC HEARING MONDAY, MAY 13, 2013, AT 5:30 P.M. IN RE: CASE NO OMEGA REAL ESTATE, LLC, IS REQUESTING A VARIANCE TO PERMIT A DISTANCE OF LESS THAN 200 FEET OF THE NEAREST PORTION OF A DWELLING FROM THE KEEPING, SHELTERING, HARBORING, RAISING, BREEDING, TRAINING, FEEDING, CARING OF, TO INCLUDE PASTURING, GRAZING, ROAMING OR OTHER USEFUL PURPOSE OF ANY ANIMAL WHICH IS SITUATED IN AN R 1 ZONING DISTRICT, WHICH IS LOCATED AT 6174 HIGHLAND AVENUE, LORDSTOWN, OHIO. APPEARANCES: Lordstown Village Board of Zoning Appeals Arno Hill, Mayor John McCarthy, Council Member Richard Rook Paul Dutton, Solicitor Denise L. Dugan, Assistant Planning & Zoning Administrator On behalf of Appellant: Joseph Dorma, Omega Real Estate, LLC PLACE: Lordstown Administration Building 1455 Salt Springs Rd. Lordstown, Ohio REPORTER: Sharon K. Vigorito (330)

2 2 PROCEEDINGS Lordstown Village Board of Zoning Appeals Meeting (WHEREAS, the Lordstown Village Board of Zoning Appeals meeting commenced on Monday, May 13, 2013, at 5:30 p.m. and proceedings were as follows:) MR. ROOK: I'd like to welcome you all to the Lordstown Village Board of Zoning Appeals meeting. I'd like to start out with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag, please. (Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.) MR. ROOK: Denise, you want to take the roll call, please. MRS. DUGAN: Yes, sir. Mayor Hill? MR. HILL: Present. MRS. DUGAN: Jeff Croyle? (NO RESPONSE ABSENT.) Mr. McCarthy? MR. MCCARTHY: Present. MRS. DUGAN: Mr. Rook? MR. ROOK: Present. MRS. DUGAN: MRS. DUGAN: Mr. Tura? (NO RESPONSE ABSENT.) Paul Dutton? Present. Dave Harrison? (NO RESPONSE ABSENT.) And I'm Denise Dugan. MR. ROOK: Can I have a motion from one of the Board members to excuse those that are absent? MR. HILL: So moved. MR. ROOK: Second? MR. MCCARTHY: Second. MR. ROOK: All in favor? THE BOARD: (VOTE: Aye. 3, AYE; 0, NAY; 0, ABSTAINED.) MR. ROOK: Motion to approve the agenda we have for this evening?

3 3 MR. MCCARTHY: So moved. MR. HILL: Second. MR. ROOK: All in favor? THE BOARD: (VOTE: Aye. 3, AYE; 0, NAY; 0, ABSTAINED.) MR. ROOK: Motion to approve the minutes from the January 11, 2013, meeting? MR. HILL: So moved. MR. MCCARTHY: Second. MR. ROOK: All in favor? THE BOARD: (VOTE: Aye. 3, AYE; 0, NAY; 0, ABSTAINED.) MR. ROOK: I'd like to read to you the Scope and Jurisdiction of the Board. It's as follows: (The Scope and Jurisdiction of the Board was read in its entirety by Chairman Rook.) Your statements at this public hearing are not the only basis for determination of this request. This Board represents not only the vocal group at a public hearing, but also those many citizens who do not attend or speak at hearings. The decision of the Board shall not become final until the expiration of five working days from the date of the Board's approval. The procedure for the public comment aspect of our hearing is as follows: All speakers will be sworn in. All speakers must step up to the microphone and state your name and address for the record. All persons speak in order one by one. No open discussions and no cross examination. The appellant makes the first statement. Those in favor speak first; those against speak next. Rebuttal by appellant is then permitted. The members of the Board then have the opportunity to ask for clarification and/or additional

4 4 information. There is a last call for new and additional information that has not been previously stated. Denise, would you like to read the case. MRS. DUGAN: Yes. Omega Real Estate is requesting a variance to permit a distance of less than 200 feet of the nearest portion of a dwelling from the keeping, sheltering, harboring, raising, breeding, training, feeding, caring of, to include pasturing, grazing, roaming or other useful purpose of any animal on property which is situated in an R 1 Zoning District, which is located at 6174 Highland Avenue, Lordstown, Ohio. The meeting was set for May 13, 2013, at 5:30 p.m. The appropriate deposit was paid. A legal ad was run in the Tribune Chronicle. And the abutting property owners were notified by certified mail. I believe I'm sorry. I don't know your name is here to represent Omega. Thank you. My name is Joseph MR. ROOK: We need to swear you in first. I'm sorry. (Mr. Joseph Dorma was sworn in by Chairman Rook.) MR. ROOK: Please state your name and address. Joseph Dorma, 1223 Gibson Street, Youngstown, Ohio. MR. ROOK: Go ahead. Thank you. I'm here to answer the request or make a statement for the request of the zoning variance on our property at 6174 Highland Avenue. We've made significant improvements since acquiring the property. I think the abutting property owners can attest to that. More recently, we just put a new barn on the property. We are herding cows there. We have six cows five cows right now for grazing purposes. We respectfully request that the setback variance of 200 feet be

5 5 viewed at so that we don't have to incur any additional expense in moving fence line on the property and so forth. We do have a responsibility to PCL Energy Resources, who have a gas well on the property. We have to give them access to the property for land maintenance. We also have, on the other side, Ohio Edison, which has rights to the land for servicing their utility lines. So that's basically what we're asking for. MR. ROOK: Question for you. Before the fences were installed, were you aware of the Zoning Ordinance? No, sir. We were not to be honest with you. That's something we probably should have researched a little more detailed. MR. HILL: I have a question. Are you the property owner? No. I represent John and Tina Thompson, who are the property owners. MR. HILL: And you are? Omega Real Estate. MR. HILL: I was on the Board when this 200 foot was put in. And the reason this was put in was because even though we are rural, we have a lot of people with long, deep lots who felt they had enough acreage to keep animals. In order to protect the neighbors, that's how they came up with the 200 foot. If there's 38 acres there, is there a hardship that they cannot keep these animals 200 foot away from the neighbor's dwelling? It's not from the neighbor's property line Right. MR. HILL: it's from the neighbor's dwelling. Right. MR. HILL: Is there a hardship there? Yes. We would have to install internal fencing to maintain the 200 feet.

6 6 MR. ROOK: When was the fence installed? Do you have a date? I believe it was August or September of last year. MR. HILL: According to our timeline, which was given to us by the Planning and Zoning Administrator, on September 12, 2012, property owner, Mrs. Thompson, called the Police Department in reference to a neighbor causing a problem with a new fence. After that it says, "It was in this time period when Mrs. Thompson was advised about our Zoning Code prohibiting the harboring of animals closer than 200 foot from a neighboring dwelling. Mrs. Thompson did state that she was aware of our Zoning Codes, and believe she further explained at that time that she raises Bull Mastiff dogs, and they would not be loose to run the property line. That's correct. MR. HILL: So she was aware of that at that time. What's changed since then? To be quite honest with you that was in September of last year? MR. HILL: September 12 MR. MCCARTHY: September 12th. I'm not aware of that, I'm sorry. I think some issues came up since that time regarding the fencing and the location of it. I'm not sure that she researched what the Ordinance read and how it read. As far as her matters with the police, I'm unaware of that. MR. MCCARTHY: My understanding was that the Zoning Administrator did question her about it. Asked her if she did know the Zoning Codes, and she said she was well aware of them. That's what she said. If that is true, she went right ahead and put the fence up for the cows anyway. Well, the cows have not been there that long. They've only been there about four months. And I can't

7 7 speak to what she knew in September. I'm not an attorney. I'm just an employee of the company. MR. MCCARTHY: But you're here representing Yes, sir MR. MCCARTHY: them today? MAYOR HILL: Yes, sir, I am. According to this we have the whole time frame here they applied for three zoning permits. One for a principle dwelling. You cannot have an accessory building, which can be a garage or a barn or shed or something like that, without a principle dwelling. The principle dwelling, has it been started yet? No. It's in the I believe they're going to start construction sometime in the latter part of June. MR. MCCARTHY: They received a permit on July 2, 2012, for the residence. Yes, that sounds about right. MR. MCCARTHY: I think since that time, they've built a barn? Yes, sir. MR. ROOK: You can't have an out building without a residence there on the property. Like I said, I believe that they plan to start construction fairly soon. My name is Paul Dutton. I'm the Solicitor for the Village. I'm not a member of the commission, but I do have a responsibility to advise the commission. I wanted to clarify the record because there is a record here. In the packet of material that was circulated, reference was made by Mayor Hill to three zoning permits. The first one, Zoning Permit No This is a permit issued on July 3, 2012, to erect it was issued to Tina Thompson to erect a single family dwelling, estimated

8 8 valuation $190,000 at 6174 Highland Avenue. The Zoning Ordinance requires that that construction commence within six months of the issuance of the permit. Otherwise, the permit, by its own terms, will expire. That doesn't mean that it cannot be reissued, but it means that the permit has expired. I understand that. This will be Village Exhibit 1. (Village Exhibit 1 was marked for identification.) On the same date, two additional zoning permits were issued. Number to Tina Thompson for a storage building at 6174 Highland Avenue, estimated value of $3,200. I believe you testified, or someone stated, that that storage building was constructed. Yes, sir. And that's called an accessory building. (Village Exhibit 2 was marked for identification.) The third document is the third permit that was issued on the same day, July 3, 2012, for a storage building/dog house. This is No , to be constructed at 6174 Highland Avenue, valuation $31,430. (Village Exhibit 3 was marked for identification.) The conundrum that those you are representing face is that you cannot have an accessory building if you don't have a principle residence, or at least under construction. The zoning certificate for the principle residence has expired. The applicant here, Omega Real Estate, is asking for a variance for a situation where there's a current zoning violation for which there's no authority to have the accessory buildings present without the principle building. So, procedurally, I cannot see how this Board can even entertain this application. What would need to be done would be to either remove the accessory buildings

9 9 and then you're dealing with pasture land or reapply for the zoning permit to commence the construction of the dwelling. Then the applicant can come back and ask for a variance under those circumstances. Okay. That's without getting into the merits. If you are going to get into the merits, someone needs to read Mr. Harrison's comments on the seven standards for granting the variance. But I don't even think you should go there. That's my advice to you. MR. ROOK: Where does that leave it for the cows that are pastured there now? Well, the cows cannot be within 200 feet of an inhabited dwelling, which means a residential structure. It can be within 200 feet of a garage, an out building. But if they are within 200 feet of an occupied home, they have to be relocated. And I realize we're dealing with livestock, which means you either remove the cows or you put up another fence so it is within 200 feet. I mean, it's not something that this Board can deal with. The cows would have to conform to the code. I realize we're dealing with animal livestock, but people are responsible. MR. ROOK: That would have to be done now, correct? Yes. There is a zoning violation MR. ROOK: Until construction starts on the house. Right. There is a zoning violation. If it isn't done, then there are fines and so forth. Can I ask two questions, please? One is as soon as the construction of the house commences, does that allow us to comply with the existing Ordinance? Well, you would then have standing to come in here and reapply for a variance. That doesn't mean You're going to get it

10 10 that they're going grant the variance. I'm just saying you don't have standing now because you're in violation of the current Zoning Ordinance. What's out there shouldn't be there. Question number two, then. How much time do we have to put a containment fence along the property lines? If they wish to grant that in other words, if you requested it, they would establish a time period. Normally, they're very reasonable. In fact, sometimes they're more than reasonable. Entering into summer here, I would imagine that whatever amount of time reasonable people would have to construct the fence. Certainly not six months. Probably less than a month. I'm just trying to find out some idea of approximately how much time we have before we start getting hit with fines and so forth. We want to avoid that at all costs. Right. Obviously, we're going to incur quite a bit of additional expense that we hadn't anticipated by putting an internal fence And the fence just has to be, in those areas, where you can measure 200 feet from the residence. MR. HILL: If you get to the corner of the residence house, you want to draw a straight line 200 foot, as long as they're 200 foot away. And that was put in to keep away the odor, the smell, the flies or anything like that. That was the reason that was put in. But putting up the fence, in and of itself, doesn't solve the whole problem. Because if you don't have a principle structure, a house I understand. you can't have an accessory building. So the next shoe to fall would be an order to remove the accessory

11 11 building. You've got livestock there that probably needs those accessory buildings. MR. MCCARTHY: Mr. Solicitor, would it be proper before we establish a timeline or something of that nature, that we hear from the residents or citizens that are against and for the variance? As a courtesy, yes. But I don't believe you're in a position to make a decision MR. MCCARTHY: Not on the variance but at least hear As a courtesy, you could hear what they have to say. MR. MCCARTHY: Mr. Chairman, I would like to hear them. But after his testimony, you need to make sure see if there's anyone else in favor of the variance even though it's premature. MR. ROOK: It's my understanding at this point you have intentions of starting construction on the house in the immediate future? I think sometime, perhaps, between the middle and end of June is the latest date I have. A lot depends on weather conditions, and the building industry is sort of fickle. They need to go down and get a new zoning certificate for another six months. That can be done within the next day or so. There's no problem there. The comment you made earlier, I just want to clarify as far as housing of dogs. I think something was read about it. MR. ROOK: That's what she told the Zoning Inspector. The truth of the matter is Mrs. Thompson raises Mastiffs. She raises them in her home in Poland. They're show dogs, primarily. I don't quite understand why she put that as part of the nomenclature, so to speak, or a description of what she was using the housing for. It's in the application in her handwriting.

12 12 Right. I understand. We may have to address that and make some corrections to it. Just for the record's sake, I just wanted to bring that up. The other comment that was made I think by some neighbors I'm not sure who we certainly have no intentions of putting hogs on the property, you know, and creating a cesspool of environmental problems out there. That's not part of this. What we have as far as cows right now is essentially the livestock. We will address the application for the new building permit. And I will get come clarification for the Board when they're going to start. I just don't have anything more specific. I'd like to leave with some idea, approximate amount of time we have to comply with that variance or should we wait until construction begins until we apply? MR. ROOK: How long do you think it will take to put the fence up? Well, there's an added dimension to this. Back on April 21st, there was a fire on the property of one of our neighbors. It fell some trees on fencing, which sent the fencing to the ground and created quite a bit of brush damage. The fence was damaged; trees were fallen; grazing grass was destroyed. We are waiting for our neighbor's adjuster to get in touch with us, hopefully sometime this week, to find out what the damages are and see what needs to be done. We know that there's several hundred feet of fencing that has to be replaced, existing fence that was damaged by the fire. As far as how much fencing we have to put in there, I will say this, I take your suggestion to heart in going to the nearest pin location of the property and measuring because we could conceivably have a lot of fencing outside that 200 feet minimum. We would have to look at locations where it infringes on that 200 feet to see how we have to reconstruct or reposition the fence to be in compliance. MR. HILL: According to the map I saw, you don't have that many

13 13 I believe there's probably three houses which I believe we have six neighbors. MR. ROOK: In one of the photos, Mr. Harrison had suggested that a secondary fence could be put in a relatively short length. He had made that suggestion already to Mrs. Thompson. We even have a picture right here. I have a photograph of that, as well. What I'm stating is we're going to have to resurvey the property to make sure that we put in a minimum number of feet of fence to be in compliance with the abutting property owners. MR. ROOK: If you put that fence in, then this whole procedure here goes away, right? You're no longer in violation. MR. HILL: As long as they put the house up. MR. ROOK: Right. The house has to come up in order you can come in here and talk to us. If you put the fence up, you no longer need that. My question then becomes, what happens to the cows between now and when you get the fence put up? We have a caretaker, I guess you could say, that comes out daily and checks on them. I'm looking at something here that we could do relatively quickly. I'm not talking about something that's going to take weeks and months. I'm saying we can move fairly quickly on getting the fence lines repositioned to comply with the Ordinance. I just can't give you two days, five days, a week. I'd have to MR. ROOK: If you came in and told me six months, it probably would be an issue. If you just told me it could be a month, maybe that's something we could discuss. I would say a month on the outside. Just so I have a clear understanding now, that's step number one for us is to reposition the fence line. Step number two is to reapply for a building permit on the construction. If I'm sorry. Go ahead.

14 14 MR. ROOK: I don't know if there's an order to those. Do the cows need to be removed because they're in violation now? The out buildings are also in violation because you don't have the house started. You need to apply for the house permit I would say immediately. Okay. MR. ROOK: Is that correct? Well, just look at the factual situation, you do not have a valid permit to construct the house. That's correct. They can't construct the house without the permit. Let's assume for the sake of speculation, we're not talking about the house. We're talking about cows, a fence and accessory buildings. If the house isn't there, the accessory buildings have to go. Understood. And whether the house is there, whether the accessory buildings are there, the cows have to be fenced within a distance of 200 feet. You could have open pasture land with cows, no accessory buildings, as long as they're within 200 feet from a residence. So, the cows, I think, are the first priority. That's the point I'm trying to make. We can come in tomorrow and apply and pay the fee for a building permit on the dwelling. To get this thing off dead center and be in compliance with where the cows are now we certainly don't want to move them. Why couldn't you do both at the same time? I don't see any reason why we can't to be quite honest with you. But, as you know, sometimes the littlest things fall through the biggest cracks. And I don't want to leave here tonight and go back and say this is what we should be doing and what we shouldn't be doing. I'd like to get the whole thing off

15 15 of dead center and get moving so everybody's happy. Well, they're going to meet in a month. Maybe what they might want to do is give you 30 days and meet back here in 30 days That would be fine. And if they're satisfied, move forward. If they're dissatisfied then I would just like our people to go out there and take exact measurements on where internal fencing or new fencing has to be reinstalled. Obviously, we know there's an expense in putting up fencing. It's considerable. We certainly don't want to be spending thousands of dollars putting up fencing needlessly. At the same time, we can apply for a building permit for the residence. I'm not saying those two can't go in tandem. The main issue seems to be the cows right now, and I'd like to get that addressed starting tomorrow. MR. HILL: As far as how much time we're going to give you, I can agree with Mr. McCarthy. I'd like to hear if residents want to come up and say give us their views. Then after that, if this Board would like to give you a time frame or whatever. But I would like to hear from the residents. MR. MCCARTHY: I'd like to hear that, also. And I can tell you, I don't know if you've seen that picture or not I have, sir. MR. MCCARTHY: If that was my house, you'd have to unscrew me out of the ground. Understood. MR. MCCARTHY: Because I would be very, very upset. That's why I'd like to hear from the residents. Because I'm sure that the sooner those cows are gone, the better. Or moved.

16 16 MR. MCCARTHY: Or moved. That's what I'm saying. I We have a right to keep the cows there as long as we're within the Ordinance. MR. MCCARTHY: Right. As long as you're within the Ordinance. That's kind of where I'm heading is how long would it take you to either get the cows back more than 200 feet and then you can apply with the housing and the out building, or haul them out of there or whatever. What kind of time frame would you like in order to comply with just getting the animals out of there? I really want to hear from the residents because I'm sure I'd like to hear from the residents, too, because, quite frankly, I'm not technically oriented to tell you how long it takes to put up "X" number of feet of fencing. I'm not sure what the lead time is on a contractor coming in and doing it. So, you know, I mean, it sounds simple enough, but I would hate to give you a timeline and then not fall within that time frame. I would like the opportunity to make a few calls and find out. MR. MCCARTHY: It would only take a day or so to come in and load them on a truck and put them somewhere else. Where do you put them? I know you could say that's not MR. MCCARTHY: That's not our problem. We don't want to move the cows, sir. MR. MCCARTHY: Okay. Understand. But we will adjust the fencing issue. I just can't tell you right now whether it's going to be a week, two weeks, ten days, three weeks. I just don't know. MR. ROOK: We may have some direction we'll hear from the residents. Okay. MR. ROOK: Anybody else in favor of it? (NO RESPONSE.) Let me ask,

17 17 who would plan to speak? Those that are planning to speak, we'd like to swear you in all at one time. So, if you'd stand, please. MR. HILL: Even if you don't think you're going to speak, if you might speak, you might want to get sworn in. (Those present wishing to speak were sworn in by Chairman Rook.) MR. ROOK: Thank you. Who would like to speak first? MR. HILL: Sir, you can take a seat. MR. ROOK: Please state your name and address if you would, please. MRS. SCHRADER: My name is Donna Schrader. I live across the street at 6471 Highland Avenue. I want to say some things, but I want to read it. First, I want to read you the letter I got from the Thompsons. My name wasn't even spelled right. This letter is dated June 1, "We recently purchased land on Highland Avenue that abuts your property. We will be building a house this summer and moving into it sometime in the fall. Additionally, we are turning cattle out. Consequently, we are fencing the property all in the boundaries set out in the survey completed in May," which was So, here's what I have to say. Back on June 4, 2012, a pickup with Michigan license plates pulling a trailer loaded with steel with two Latinos pulled into my driveway at 7:30 that evening at the farmhouse at They wanted to know where the building was going to be built that they had the supplies for. They had an address but couldn't find it so assumed it was my property. I told them it was not for me but to go next door to the house south because that was about where that address should be. They couldn't find the drive. They pulled down into my property down by my pond and had their vehicle and trailer on my property. I went down and informed them they could not park there. They found how to enter the property and from that time, say, 8:00 in the evening to the next morning, that building was up in the woods next

18 18 to me, which would be the smallest building. Now, isn't the procedure for this letter normally for Lordstown Village to send out a letter, not the property owner stating that cattle is going to be turned out? During the fence construction, my completely legal fence, along with many trees on my property, several feet in on my property that had held black Angus cows years ago were destroyed. The tree line was over 100 years old and had survived several owners between the properties, except now. I had to have my property surveyed. It was surveyed in 2011 through my husband's estate. Except for two surveyor stakes of mine, the rest of my survey stakes done at the end of 2011 were all taken down. The fence company put up orange tape wherever they wanted. This brings up another question. There is a state rule that says if a fence is put up by one property owner, the owner on the other side cannot use that fence to house farm animals. Now, since these people took down my fence granted it wasn't a good fence, but it was a legal fence does this rule still apply? From my understanding of the zoning laws, a fence for cattle needs to be more than 200 feet from houses. There is a home next to my farm that is enclosed on three sides with fencing closer than 200 feet to that home. I do know that our six properties three on one side of the road; three on the other side of the road are within that 200 feet. I have observed six cows on this property. Six cows graze the fence line. Are there any utilities on this property? Especially water for the animals. With no water, electric, gas or sewer on the property, how can you have cattle being property taken care of? There is a creek going through the property. According to the EPA, cattle cannot be around that creek. Is this creek the water supply for these cattle? It is my understanding, also, that this creek flows into the Mahoning River. Since Lordstown sewer line goes along

19 19 the front of the property and there are two buildings on it, should they be connected to the Lordstown sewer? I haven't seen a grinder pump installed. According to the letter I received, a home was to have been built last fall. Logically, wouldn't the utilities had been installed first? By the way, should there be a street number on this property? How far back from the road must that fence be? Across the street from this fence acreage, there are four homes that abut my farm. Here is what I do with these. There is a farmer that plows in the back of the home. He doesn't plow right up to the property line. He probably plows 10 to 14 feet, something like that, in. All four of those homes use that property of mine. They know that; I know that. They're taking care of it. There's no problem. That's how we do things. I do not know of another situation such as this one where so many property owners have voiced opinions about this property. There usually is no need to. I, for one, object to the variance to permit "to permit a distance of less than 200 feet of the nearest portion of a dwelling from keeping, sheltering, harboring, raising, breeding, training, feeding, caring of, to include, pasturing, grazing, roaming or any other useful purpose of any animal which is situated in an R 1 Zoning District." I'm aware there are two property owners that did receive letters who are working and wish they could have been here to express their opinions. If this variance is given, I feel there will be continued unrest in the future regarding this situation. The fence in the front along the road is the width of the ditch from the road. The home across the street are 200 feet from the fence. Does anybody know how long this code has been in affect? It must be a working code if it's been in affect for a while, so why change it now? Thank you for listening to me.

20 20 One more thing, this is the picture of what I used to have before the trees were taken down. That was a legal fence line. According to Ohio statutes, the legal fence line can be a tree line. That's what it looked like. It doesn't look like that now. MR. ROOK: Were those trees on your property? MRS. SCHRADER: Part of them were on mine; part of them were on theirs. And I understand they have the right to take it down. But that's what it used to be. Do you want to give your written statement to the stenographer? MRS. SCHRADER: It's not exactly what I said. It's not exactly what you said? MRS. SCHRADER: No. All right. MRS. SCHRADER: Thank you. MR. ROOK: Appreciate your comments. I don't know if we can address all of your questions, but we appreciate your comments. MRS. SCHRADER: I appreciate the fact of being able to say something finally. MR. ROOK: Would the next person like to speak? Name and address, please. MR. DENNO: My name is Jerry Denno. I live at 6259 Highland. I got the same letter she did and everybody else did. I'm a neighbor of Rick Biggs. I have an "L" shape and his fence comes around in an "L" shape to mine. So the two sides of my house I have pictures of the fence line and the cows. The cows are about 50 feet from my house right now and about 10 feet off my driveway, directly behind that's my house right there. That's my house. He came up to me and he said he was going to put the fence on the line, two feet off the line. I never knew about the cows. He said

21 21 he was putting the cows there, but I was under the assumption that was just to keep them from escaping his land. I assumed he was going to keep the cows someplace else considering he has 40 acres. I had to pay him $1,600 to move the fence where it's at right now. I had to pay this man $1,600 just so I wouldn't have gotten boxed in. The cows wouldn't have been two feet off my line. So, I definitely object. I don't know if he can move the fence where it's at now. It definitely needs to be moved in 200 feet from my house it's 50 feet from the side of the house and it's 178 feet from the back. MR. ROOK: I don't know if the fence itself is an issue MR. DENNO: Right. I understand that. MR. ROOK: The fence may stay and the animals may be moved MR. DENNO: Right. I understand that. MR. HILL: Or there may be an interior fence put in. MR. DENNO: Right. MR. HILL: As long as they're 200 foot from the house MR. DENNO: Absolutely. MR. HILL: because that was put in to stop the odors and flies and everything else. Like I said, we have several lots I'll call them spaghetti farm lots they're long and deep. You know, when we did have one person come up and say what about my house? I said, you could have livestock bunking with you for all we care, just respect your neighbors. MR. DENNO: Right. That's all I wanted. And I wish he would have been more honest with me about putting the cows right there. Otherwise, I would have looked into the zoning and I wouldn't have had to pay him the $1,600. He probably wouldn't have put two fences up to begin with. I can't see him boxing in two fences considering one is 178 feet and so he's going to put a fence behind another fence 22 feet away from each other? That's where that back fence

22 22 is going to be. If he moves that other fence inside the back fence, it's going to be 22 feet from the other fence if he puts it the 200 feet off the line. Like I said, if he would have been honest, I would have looked into the zoning. I assumed him being a businessman, he would have looked into something like that and not do all this and inconvenience everybody and me paying the money and stuff. I do have pictures of where I stand and what I look at every day. MR. ROOK: We drove by and we've seen it. MR. DENNO: MAYOR HILL: MR. DENNO: You guys already know. We've seen the picture, and I've driven by there. All right. That's all I have to say about it. Any questions? MR. ROOK: Thank you. MR. DENNO: Thank you. MR. ROOK: Next? MR. KING: My name is Douglas King. I live at 6300 Highland Avenue. I'm totally against it. He says five cows; he has six cows. He says four months that they've been there; they've been there since December. Property damage, he says when he put the fence up, they dealt with the people around there. He brushed hogged my property. He made a big joke about it. I called the cops. There is a police report. Everything this guy has been doing is behind the ball. You guys, he's not doing what he needs to do with permits. To me, the buildings can be took down and he can reapply for everything. That's the way I feel with this guy. It's not right what he's doing. It's not right how he's getting around everything. I'm sorry, but that's where I stand on it. MR. ROOK: We appreciate your comments. Next? MS. ARLOW: Kay Arlow, 6050 Highland. I live across the street from the property. I just want to verify or speak out on the fence.

23 23 It took a week or less to put it up because I was at that fence line every day in a golf cart watching the guys, watching them take down the brush, watching the mud on my sister's property on the farm property, what they did when they took out all the brush, and what it's done to the property now with the brush gone her brush, and how the water is trickling down into her pond and down into the drain in the front and everything. It's totally changed it. I guess that's all I want to say at this point. MR. ROOK: Thank you. Anyone else? MR. DENNO: I do have another question. Can I come up? I had a question. If he moves to the other fence on the side there, if he moves the other fence, and he builds another one inside there, is he legally allowed to keep a barbed wire and electric fence on the outside of there being that it's not containing the cattle anymore? Because I have a special needs son that plays right there every day. There's a basketball hoop right there. My driveway's right there. He rides his bike. And there's an electric fence. He can reach his hand right in there. There's no signs showing it. MR. DENNO: I don't know the answer. I was just wondering because, like I said, I thought there was a law that you had to only keep barbed wire and electric fence if it's containing the cattle. So if you put another fence inside that and it's no longer containing that cattle. MR. DENNO: We'll refer that to our Zoning Inspector. Okay. I was just wondering. And, as far as the hardship of him moving that fence for his cost, me and Rick Biggs had already paid him our money in case we moved or pass away. He has money up front to move the fence right to the line. He has the money; we paid him the money to build another one. Just to let you guys know. That's all. Thank you.

24 24 MR. ROOK: Anyone else? (NO RESPONSE.) I guess at this point, if you're looking to give some type of response to you on a time frame, come up with something reasonable. Don't want to leave it open ended. So these people have something, I guess we're looking for suggestions for a reasonable time frame. MR. MCCARTHY: I'd like to make a statement to some of the residents who came up and spoke. As far as property damage and that is concerned, that's for another venue. That isn't something we'd do here. That being said, I'll make a motion that we just as far as the cattle are concerned that they be in substantial compliance within 30 days from today's date. MR. ROOK: I'll second the motion. Roll call. Can I make a statement? Are you through with the procedural MR. ROOK: We're going to have a vote on it and finalize it. Do you want me to wait then? He can make a comment. I just want to say to the other property owners that I duly note the issues and the concerns and the complaints that they have. I am going to take them back to the owners. I will meet with them tomorrow. We want to be good neighbors here. We really do. You know, whatever we need to do to correct some situations that occur perhaps were out of our control. Mainly, people showing up with trailers to put up pole buildings and whatnot. You have our apologies. That's not our intent. That's not the way we do business. So I will take it back to the property owners and discuss it. My apologies. MR. ROOK: I do think a gesture of good will would be perhaps if there's something out there that causes issues an electric fence is no longer needed some consideration may be needed. Yes. And I understand the special needs

25 25 people. I understand the concerns there. That could be as simple as de electrifying that section of fence if we have to build an internal fence. As far as building a fence, I can tell you it will be at warp speed. It's something that's not going to drag out 30 days. Thank you. MR. ROOK: We have a motion and a second to give them 30 days, and they can report back to the Zoning Inspector when the fence is completed. MR. MCCARTHY: Just for the cattle only. The buildings and so forth are a separate issue. We understand there has to be a new permit applied for. MR. ROOK: It's been seconded. Can we have a vote, please. MRS. DUGAN: Yes. Mr. Hill? MR. HILL: Yes. MRS. DUGAN: Mr. McCarthy? MR. MCCARTHY: Yes. MRS. DUGAN: Mr. Rook? MR. ROOK: Yes. (VOTE: 3, AYE; 0, NAY; 0, ABSTAINED.) MR. ROOK: Any other comments or questions that anybody wants to throw out? Anything else we need to do? I think you need to instruct the Zoning Inspector that if an application to renew the certificate to start the house is not made within the same 30 day period, that he take affirmative steps to have the out buildings, the accessory buildings removed. MR. ROOK: That needs to be placed as a motion? I would do it as a motion because they are parallel issues. The testimony was that there would be an application and the house would be under construction forthwith. MR. MCCARTHY: I'll make that motion that the house will also be

26 26 in compliance with the permit within the time frame of removing the cows in 30 days. That's for the application, the permit? Right. If you're not 30 days from now, if there's no progress on the permit for the house, then you have a violation of those out buildings. I understand. I'm saying I can't you're talking about a permit within 30 days? Not building the house. MR. MCCARTHY: Just the permit. I understand. The permit gives you another six months. Yes, sir. I understand. MR. ROOK: And I'll second that motion. Do you want to go ahead on the roll call. MRS. DUGAN: Mr. McCarthy? MR. MCCARTHY: Yes. MRS. DUGAN: Mr. Rook? MR. ROOK: Yes. MRS. DUGAN: Mr. Hill? MR. HILL: Yes. (VOTE: 3, AYE; 0, NAY; 0, ABSTAINED.) MR. HILL: We want to be good neighbors, too. These are all going to be the new neighbors. The reason that zoning, you know, it's there to protect them and to protect the people coming in later. I can give you a hundred reasons why a lot of things didn't happen and very few why they did happen. MR. HILL: Can he make another comment? Public comments MR. KING: I was going to ask, when you guys did that, what were the fines they were looking at anyways on failing to comply with

27 27 the permit? I mean, because you're looking at, what? Almost 11 months? So six months for the permit and so it's five months for not having it and not doing anything with it? I mean, it's kind of laid back here. I mean, when it failed and the out building was already there, there should have been some type of fine going on is what I was asking. SOLICITOR DUTTON: At this point the clock starts running on a fine once there's a citation. The permit expired so there was and is a violation. Until the Zoning Inspector issues a citation, then the fine starts to run. It's so many dollars I can't say what it is, but, like, $100 a day until you remove the out building. But it's not retroactive because there was never a citation issued. MR. KING: So he can just get away with it, and they're just going to hand him a new permit? MAYOR HILL: If he gets a new permit but then he does not build in six months, after that MR. KING: He already did that once. That's what I'm trying to understand But we have a lot of people MR. KING: Now we're going to let it go ahead and let it go again, and we're not dealing with the violation that's already out there. That's what I'm trying to understand why we're not dealing with what is out there now. On the building MR. KING: You recognized it there are numerous instances where you obtain a zoning certificate to construct a home and for whatever reason, financing, you bump against the six month or you exceed the six months. So, the village, as in most communities, will reissue zoning permits to construct a residence. What should not have happened here was the accessory buildings should not have been

28 28 constructed before the principle residence. But there was no citations issued. There will be a citation issued within 30 days because of a second motion if they are not in compliance. MR. KING: So maybe we need to address that in the paperwork when anybody applies for that again so this doesn't happen again. On the issue of whether or not MR. KING: No. When you build a house What comes first, the chicken or the egg? MR. KING: Yes. The chicken should come first; namely, the residence, before you build an accessory building. MR. KING: I'm just trying to clarify so it doesn't happen again. MR. ROOK: I think in one of Dave Harrison's comments in some of the literature sent to us, they allowed the out buildings to be constructed because the housing permit was issued also. Same day. MR. ROOK: So they assumed that everything was going to go up at the same time. So they weren't worried, again, which went first or second. MR. KING: That should be clarified that they'd be in violation. I'm just trying to help you guys in the long run. MAYOR HILL: Basically, now, if he comes in in 29 days and gets the building permit I'm sure he's going to be in the next week or two I'm assuming. When he comes in for that, the six months starts. After that, if there's not a reason why they do not have that, then they're in violation and then once the citation is issued, then the courts will handle that. MR. ROOK: One of the things that this Board has set up is 30 days from tonight, if some of that has not taken place, Mr. Harrison will take action at that point. Any other public remarks? (NO RESPONSE.)

29 29 Motion to adjourn. MAYOR HILL: Second. MR. ROOK: All in favor? THE BOARD: (VOTE: Aye. 3, AYE; 0, NAY; 0, ABSTAINED.) MR. ROOK: Thank you. MR. HILL: Appreciate everybody coming this evening. (WHEREAS, THE PUBLIC MEETING BEFORE THE VILLAGE OF LORDSTOWN BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS ADJOURNED AT 6:25 P.M.)

30 30 STATE OF OHIO ) COUNTY OF TRUMBULL ) ) I, Sharon K. Vigorito, a Notary Public, within and for the State of Ohio, do certify that the foregoing meeting before the Lordstown Village Board of Zoning Appeals was written in the presence of witnesses and by me transcribed. I further certify that the foregoing is a true and accurate transcript to the best of my abilities. Sharon K. Vigorito, Notary Public My Commission Expires May 9, 2017