UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT WORK ETHICS AND NEW ISLAMIC DISCOURSE: THE CASE OF NEWLY EMERGING TURKISH BUSINESS CLASS EVENT TYPE EVENT TITLE SPEAKER(S)

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1 UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT WORK ETHICS AND NEW ISLAMIC DISCOURSE: THE CASE OF NEWLY EMERGING TURKISH BUSINESS CLASS Good evening everybody. Tonight I m going to be telling you about the newly emerging Turkish business class and their activities, especially how their religious beliefs influence their business activities and work ethics. UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT EVENT TYPE SEMINAR EVENT TITLE WORK ETHICS AND NEW ISLAMIC DISCOURSE: THE CASE OF NEWLY EMERGING TURKISH BUSINESS CLASS SPEAKER(S) SELCUK UYGUR, PHD CANDIDATE, BRUNEL UNIVERSITY, LONDON DATE & VENUE 18 DECEMBER 2008 DIALOGUE SOCIETY, LONDON 1 I would like to start with how did this question emerge and why we regard this question as a phenomenon. For a long time, in East Turkey, especially in the 1980s, the private business sector was represented by mostly Istanbul-based and Ankara-based business studies. Anatolian people were not so interested in doing business in a rational and modern way for a long time, but after the 1980s everything had been changed and it started on people, some academics and spiritualists attention, and they have started to investigate what are the dynamics behind this newly emerging business class. And at the same time, some Anatolian cities known by their religious sectors and conservative leanings, appeared with strong work ethic and enterprise culture. For example, Kayseri, Gaziantep, and Konya are some of those. I would just like to introduce a couple of cities to you who do not know about them. For example, Konya and Kayseri, they are both known by their religious and conservative leanings. Here on the picture on the lefthand side is the founder of the famous Sufi order Mevlana Jelaluddin Rumi. But at the same time, besides being religious and conservative, these cities are also highly developed and industrialized in terms of business. Here showed on the left, on the bottom, is Turkey s largest organized industrial zone in Konya. And you can also, encounter modern shopping malls in both cities. And these cities basically captured scholars or academics attention and they started to investigate what are the dynamics behind this economic success of these conservative cities. And I have basically divided this literature into two parts. In the first group, I call this group as Weberian reading of this phenomenon. Basically, as it comes to the relation between economy and religion, Max Weber is the first person who comes to mind. According to Weberian reading, this reading emphasizes the relationship between religion and economic activities, and the transformative potential of Islam. So, Max Weber s protestant ethic thesis is very well-known in this literature and some of the characteristics of protestant work ethics are hard work; frugality and productivity; negative attitude to leisure activities; pride in work; honesty; internal focus of control, which means if something goes wrong in business, one should blame himself or herself first, not other people; and high level of need for achievement. According Furnham, if some of these characteristics exist in a group, we can call that group showing high level of protestant work ethic. And from Turkey, an academic, Muhammad Aslam from Izzet Baysal University, he used some of these protestant work ethics case and he applied these skills into three different nations--the Muslim Turkish managers, Catholic Irish managers, and Protestant British managers. Interestingly, he found that Muslim Turkish managers have higher protestant work ethics than its Catholic and

2 Protestant counterparts, and he explained his results as it can be explained by the minimisation of the Ottoman despotism through democratic reforms and transformation of traditional Sufism which I find in entrepreneurial ideology.. 2 And not only this study, this phenomenon also started some foreign researchers attention as well. European Stability Initiative, a nongovernment organisation, sent a couple of researchers to Anatolia and especially they have visited Kayseri and they were just trying to understand what are the dynamics behind the economic boom in Kayseri and since they applied Kayseri s economic boom, their religious values, and they have published an interesting report which I am holding in my hand now. The title of the report is quite interesting, titled Islamic Calvinists: Change and Conservatism in Central Anatolia. I just would like to share short quotations from the reports. They say, No visitors to Kayseri could pay to notice that this is both a deeply religious society and one where change and modernisation are eagerly embraced. There s a large new mosque in the centre of the university and an even larger one in the industrial zone where many of the workers pray on Fridays. Every company sets aside rooms for prayer. Most or all the businessmen have been to Mecca on the Hadj. There are very few restaurants in the city which serve alcohol. Islamic charity is a deeplyrooted Islamic tradition and many of the city s educational and cultural establishments were funded with private donations and charities, and the report concludes that it is hard to say whether the rise of 'Islamic Calvinism' among Kayseri's entrepreneurs is a cause of their commercial success (as per Max Weber) or whether increasing prosperity has led to embrace interpretations of Islam that emphasised its compatibility with the modern world. Either way, it appears that a new generation in Central Anatolia has made its own peace with modernity, and it sounds quite logical actually. And lastly, another academic from Ankara University, Sennur Ozdemir, applied in that interview with members of Musiad. Musiad is the Businessman Association in Turkey which is also known by its religious leanings; some people call them Muslim Business Association. And according to her, it is an attempt towards creating an indigenous Muslim ethic compatible within the system of the modern world. And we are also seeing some similar characteristics in terms of work ethics, they are called Islamic work ethics, according to an Arabic scholar of academic. But as you might see, the Islamic work ethic values are also showing some similarities with Protestant work ethic values especially in terms of honesty, hard work, and importantly on fair distribution of wealth in society, dedication to work as a virtue, encouraging humans to acquire skills and technology, and life itself as a meaning. Going back to the previous slides, we can see lots of the similarities between the Islamic work ethic and the protestant work ethic. So therefore, I argue that maybe it would be more accurate to talk about work ethic because of the work ethic itself rather than placing a

3 name of a religion in front of the concept of work ethic because they show similarities. 3 As I said, at the beginning I have divided this lecture into two groups. In the second group, we are facing a Marxist approach to this phenomenon and basically material relations are the main determinant of the emergence of the Islamic capital according to this leaning. For example, five groups, he has written several books about Islamic capital and Islamic economy and (indiscernible_08:40) from Akdeniz University, as well. According to them, the rise of pious business people is the result of shifting from a state-oriented economy to a free-market economy after 1980s, and of the liberal policies of that area. Basically, according to these authors, emergence of religious or pious business people has nothing to do with religion. Simply, they met with money after the 1980s with their policies, and after meeting with money, they have changed their lifestyle and affected the way of living, as well. But this argument really also argues that the newly emerging business class might be a possible threat for secular or laic structure of state. Actually, I find this last argument a little bit superficial because it is ignoring the transformative potential of Islam. But to some extent, I find both readings, Marxist reading and Weberian reading, true to some extent, and in my study, I am using both of the readings. But you might obviously wonder what happened in the 1980s in Turkey. I will just briefly summarise what happened in the 1980s. Until the 1980s, Turkish economy was mostly based on state-oriented economy. And there was almost no private business sector, especially in terms of small and medium-sized (SME), and the number of SMEs were very low. But after the 1980s, Turkey met a free-market economy and society experienced a fast urbanisation and industrialisation process. The private business sector was encouraged and a famous political figure, Turgut Ozal, appeared with his liberal ideas. Maybe most of you know about his famous three freedoms -- freedom for entrepreneurship, freedom for thought, and freedom for conscience. And obviously, in this time period, religious rooms also benefited from his various liberal policies. This is basically what happened in the 1980s. As I said, I am not ignoring Max Weber s protestant ethic thesis but I am particularly using a distinct interpretation of Max Weber s protestant ethic thesis, and that is an interpretation made by another German sociologist, Wilhem Hennis. And according to Hennis, Max Weber s central question is not about a causal relationship between Protestant and Catholicism. Rather, his central point is manner of one s life or conduct of one s life. I just like would like to share three quotations from Hennis s Weber reading. The sphere which Weber stressed was that of the vocation of acquisitive activity. The puritans/protestants have brought great internal tensions between vocation, life, and ethics into characteristic equilibrium. For them there was no on the one hand and on the other theory and practice. They rather conducted lives totally, harnessed, consciously,

4 methodically, at one with their God and themselves, presupposing the corresponding Lebensfuhrung. (Lebensfuhrung is a German word which means a conduct or manner of one s life). 4 So, in this respect, I am also I mentioned about transformation process in Turkey. I am also using a German sociologist Anthony Giddens s Theory of Structuration. According to this theory, the structure now on religion is produced and reproduced through social practices of the actors. In our case, I believe the Muslim Turkish, the business people in our case. And the structure shapes the actors again and it is the process of duality. So, he criticized the classic function of his theory and structure of his theory, they are mentioning about the one-way relationship between individuals and structure, but rather it even suggests that that influence is not one-way influence, it s a kind of duality and they reproduce each other through the social practices. I am going to explain religious transformation versus (indiscernible_13:18) in the next section. In this respect, I have also conducted semi-structured interviews with business people from Turkey, both from religious side and secular side. And I d like to share some of the findings--actually, I have not finished my analysis but this can be regarded as preliminary results of my study. These are some quotations from the various religious business people about work ethic and when I asked them about how do their religious beliefs affect their business, one of the men responded, Of course, it affects (referring to his religious beliefs). I have a reputation. I cannot cheat in trading as a person who does daily praying. In business, we give priority to be honest. As you see, they honestly have more responsibilities and sort of puritan values are frequently mentioned in that quote. Another man said, Muslims must have a balanced approach. This concept of balance is frequently mentioned, as well. It is referring to balance between this world and hereafter. Working hard, maybe harder than others, like 8 hours, may be 18 hours, but she or he should not forget the hereafter. The main criterion here is no laziness. The third quotation is a bit interesting. His first reaction was, Of course, religion has no place in business. He says that religion has no place in business but controls the trade and industry. I mean, for example, the sample you showed to your customer, and the actual good must be the same, both humanity and religion stated. I mean, it is the same in Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Our prophet tells us that people know about flow of the goods. I am not going to go further about the work ethic. I will just show you other examples from other groups, the secular business people. Work ethic value seems also embraced by those people as well. For example, whenever I asked them about how their beliefs affect their business activities, secular manages to respond, I mean, I take religion a matter of conscience. He continues, if I sell one in a worth of good for ten. This makes me morally uncomfortable. And they are also mentioning the

5 importance of quasi-puritan values such as education, hard work, and in short meritocracy. 5 But in Turkish context, secularising is not understood as atheism or anything beyond religion. So, Islam or religion is not thought to be excluded from excluded from secularist people s lives. So we can see some very similar responses. For example, the third person I asked about his beliefs, and effects of his beliefs. He responded, Everyday, I open my shops in the name of Allah, and I pray to Allah, O, Lord grant me Halal earning. Halal is the religiously allowed way of making money or religiously allowed things. But the rest of the answer is interesting because the notion of Halal in this group, in the secular group is quite different. He says, For me, Halal earning is the money you earn without cheating people. But as for religious or pious people, sometimes even receiving bank interest would be Haram as well. Haram means opposite of Halal. So, the notion of Halal/Haram is different among these groups. But our phenomenon is Islamic capital and religious business people and I asked them about them how they think about Islamic economy system and Islamic banking specifically, because in the past the religious people or pious people were mostly hostile against capitalist or free-market system, and they were not doing economic activities in the modern way. But today, I think their attitudes and their behaviours toward free-market have been changed. For example, the first two examples are quite interesting. They say, referring to the Islamic system, it does not seem to be convincing. And another one says, For me, Islamic economy means free-market. But at the same time, aside from free-market, they also add some moral values to the free-market as well. But this third explanation is interesting. It is criticizing some aspects of Islamic banking. I asked them whether they are always using Islamic banks which have been the banks for that. I should say, most of the moments, all of them are using ordinary banking systems as well. They are not using Islamic banking. The man replies, Interest-free banks don t give cash money. You should either buy something from them or trade with them. If you are in need of cash money, you should go to a bank and get a loan, but in Islamic banking there is no such thing. Interest is regarded as Haram, prohibited, the opposite of Halal, according to our religion. Now you have to do this. I mean, according to our belief, in some unavoidable situations, Haram turns into Halal. This is interesting. Even if you are not happy with this, you have to do it. Okay, interest is prohibited. I couldn t pay my electricity bill on time. This is interest charging. Now look, it s the rule of trading. Which one is right? Closing the factory down or down or getting some bank loan and surviving? He says, According to my small ring, I would say trusting the factory is more important.

6 6 Sometimes they are approaching the unavoidable situations in a very pragmatic really. And as I said, the notion of Halal is something in the religious group, in the last example, the man says, The morality level of my children is related to whether my money is Halal. We do get bank loan if we need to pay our debts but we never receive interest from saving accounts with a bank. If you get interests from the bank, it is like mud from a dirty soil. But I would like to go further about this near-islamic discourse and how this new Islamic discourse is (inaudible). For a long time, Turkey was experiencing the lack of reformist or progressive Islamic thinkers, but in recent years, especially from the inducted republican era, we are facing some progressive Islamic thinkers such as Nursi and this first quotation is from one of his books, and Nursi one of the most influential religious figure in Turkey. He says, The lights of the power of conscience are the religious science whereas the lights of the Buddhism are modern science. The truths are the blend of the two. When they are separated, the former causes dogmatism, and the later causes deception and suspicion. At the same time, we are seeing that some Sufi terms have been reinterpreted over the years. At the early years of Turkish republic, most of Sufi institutions and medreses schools and tekia houses were closed down by a (indiscernible_21:41) and he was quite right about his decision because most of those medreses schools and tekia houses were filling the idea of other worldly pessimism or other worldly absenteeism and laziness. So based on this inspiration, he closed down all these institutions. But the famous economic history professor, (indiscernible_22:04), claims that Sufi concepts are separate from their original meanings to the laziness. Actually, they do not refer any laziness and he gives us some examples. For example, in the Sufi literature, some concept such as dunya (worldliness) or zuhd (ascetism) or tajrid (isolation). They are pretty humane but they were misunderstood for a long time. According to (indiscernible_22:35), Sufi is considered as nothing else than forgetting to worship to God. And he frequently mentions some sayings of Prophet Mohammed. The world is something that keeps you busy from the memories of God. And other one is Work for this world as if you will never die and work for the other world as if you will die tomorrow. Let me share beginner s opinions and teach optimism with you. He says, Sooner or later Turkish businessmen will not fall behind with realizing, farewell to the yesterday s fatherly and peaceful world which did not like numbers and counting, (indiscernible_23:20) bookkeeping, if they want to place and keep themselves within this changing world. And similarly, another contemporary figure is Fethullah Gulen and his movement also referring to the new interpretation of the Sufi concept, calling it Gulen zuhd and tajrid and Gulen isolation, doesn t necessarily mean that one should really work activity and he puts great emphasis on Muslim individuals not isolated from the world. In some sense we can claim that follows are accepting western civilisation as the Sufi foundation for the filial life while considering the Islamic civilization fitted for spiritual life.

7 7 After this brief introduction to new Islamic discourse, I will continue sharing some quotations with you about Islamic transition in Turkey. I asked those close people especially the religious business people about some old understanding about religion and business, and there were some sayings regarding business. In views, they say Muslims should not be rich. You have to be contented with what you have. And here is what they advise. He says, No. Knowledge is the opposite. The ideal Muslim must be rich, and I think it is true. I do not say that those ideas were wrong. Maybe they were as a kind of protecting people from moral repudiation, maybe possibly keeping people closer to Allah. Muslim would be rich, but the important thing is assimilate or internalise it. In the past, some people think of doing business after they do Hadj. There was such an obsession. I always find it strange. It was such an obsession. I always find it strange. Suppose I am 25 years old and just back from Hajj, do I have to quit trading? Why? If one who internalises Islam does honest business, measures accurately in trading, you cannot get rid of your inner suspects about quitting business. There is no such thing. You must be Muslim and do business as well and you will reflect it to your business. He is also one of the members of Religious Businessman Association. And there s another one. He replies, and I asked him, How does your religious belief affect your business? And his first reaction was, No, I never mix up my religious beliefs with my business practices. For example, I do my daily praying with not making it evident to other people. Personally, I feel uncomfortable with the people who put forward his belief with his business. Therefore, I m against doing business with putting religious factors in the front line of the business life. We saw what happened to religious holdings companies in Konya. Here, I like to open a break and explain what happened with religious holding companies in Konya. I think it was 10 or 15 years ago. It was a big scandal. Some of the religious business people appeared and they needed some new ideas. They wanted to set up new business, a very big business, but they needed some money. And the idea was, we can collect money from religious people and they mostly travelled to European countries, especially Germany, and visited Turk immigrants who are working there and they collected--they may come together in a mosque, especially pious religious Turkish, they preached and they promised, and they had promises about very high level of turnover in their business they are planning to invest. And actually they obtained a lot of money and went back to Turkey and they set up for a business. At the end, most of them, they couldn t keep their promises and most of them are bankrupted and that scandal was known in Turkey as a religious holding company scandal and this man say that he saw what happened to the religious holding companies in Konya. In this course, rather than preaching or telling about Islam, they are mostly referring living the message of the Islam. He continues saying, For us the message impression which is shaped by our principles and principles and attitudes, and other people are very important. This is one of the most reliable features of trading, namely an honest person, producing goodquality products, and delivering it on time with equal price to other companies. And this is how this man understands what a Muslim businessman should be.

8 But of course, we have experienced some bad example, as in the Konya example. 8 Before I finish, I would like to share a short video clip with you. It is an introduction film of Turkey s largest pious business institution. The interesting point, you will see in the video as well, they are putting strong emphasis on secular promises of business work rather than religious work. Let s take a look at the video Yeah, to sum up, we are seeing that work ethic values are quite embraced by both cultures, the Muslim pious and the secularist people.. However, the secularist notion of a lot of earning does not signify a religious sentiment. But my argument here is, I am not claiming any causal relation for that, I am not saying that religion or Islam makes people more honest or more reliable or more responsible, I m not saying that. But what I m saying is, this new understanding of Islam is facilitating to do business in a modern and rational way. It s kind of providing them some sort of moral energy. So, pious business people, you think they are not existing on the Islamic book, Islamic economy, or Islamic business model. For them, freemarket economy needs moral values (inaudible). But we are still seeing some reservations regarding the two things interest and investing money to some products which are prohibited by their religion. For example, they do not invest their money in alcohol or in gambling industries for example without the exceptions. As I said, the influence of religion should not be valued as a simple cause of relation. Rather, religion seems facilitating to do business, providing some sort of moral energy. Especially after 1980s, pious business people have been involved in business in a more rational and modern way through their business practices in the (indiscernible_30:45) protective. The structure of the religion has been produced and reproduced by actors pertaining to existing moral concepts such as existing Sufi concepts, let s say. And arguably, this can be regarded as secularisation of Islam with social practices. But in here, I am not using this term secularisation as the Turk s understanding of (indiscernible_31:11). The translation of (indiscernible_31:14), in English, the being worthiness of Islam through such practices. So, this is the end of my presentation. Thank you for listening.