African cattle and wqs accused of stealing the Dutch people's. The children learn in school that the Hottentots were thieves.

Transcription

1 '-si are many of them not only in the Police. South Africa is drifting to a Police State. Ignorance of the Non-Europeans drove them to making the Bantu Education Act. The "big capitalists controlling the Police and instead of protecting us they are exploiting us. Last year in the Trades and labour Hall in Johannesburg the Police were expelled because they were uninvited. I needn't go into the significance of this day, but this is a day for the young people with determination to destroy imperialism. These people should know how bad these imperialists are. It shows how big fascists they are. There are more people than Police in South Africa. In the Western Areas twelve Constables around a small group of people removing them. We are against fascist moves that deprives the poople of their rights. The African Policemen are given gabardeen instead of khaki because they are bribed by the Government. God forbids that these people who bring these evils will be thrown out and the evils with them. We believe in the right of an individual. These people pose as our liberators and we know they have two colours. Colonialism has been branded in Central Africa. Before the White man came there people lead a life of their own, but today their benefactors, the White man drives them away. Today in Kenya, millions of Tax Payers pay for soldiers to take the lives of innocent people, that is crust of imperialism. Now Kenya is a country whose inhabitants are haunted by hunger and bullets through their defenders, the British imperialists, British imperialism. Yomo Kenyatta has been sentenced to imprisonment, perhaps because he married a white woman, because they think there is something in the White skin. People in Kenya are revolting ^gainst..." - I can't make that out - "... our own Afrrica. There is a system of education introduced, the root of all evil, by the Minister. The Minister will be in charge. History has been distorted all these years and we got the

2 truth from these distortions. The Hottentots had South African cattle and wqs accused of stealing the Dutch people's. The children learn in school that the Hottentots were thieves. But Jan van Riebeeck was the thief. Enough money in South Africa to improve our economic and social position hut these people are exploiting us. Today you hear a European has been convicted of assault when the Native was dead. Not giving visas to Africans because they will expose the Malans, Strijdoms, etc. overseas. We should stand together today and make a demand which is ours. Nevermind the sten guns, atomic bombs or Hydrogen bombs. Ladies and gentlemen it has been disused, courtesy. We people want freedom from the Group Areas Act, the Suppression of Communism Act, the Western Areas Removal Act. We oppose. - I left something out - "..for freedom. I remember in the I. C. U. who died, those people with such vigour and enthusiasm that they burned their passes. People went in and out of gaol during the defiance campaign. God sent people with such determination. The wages of evil is death. The day of Paul Kruger, the tyrant, he died suffering. The day of General Hertzog came and went. The day of General Smuts came and went. The day of Pr. Malan came and went. He is at Stellenbosch. Applause. The day of Strijdom will come and go, but people fighting for freedom will be forever." Who was the next speaker? The next speaker was Mannie Pillay. Detective Head Constable Truter took the notes. And then, after him? The speaker after that was Konyana. Omit the speech. Were there any other speakers? lo. EXHIBIT G You hand in your notes? EXHIBIT G And you also hand in a typed copy of the notes? -

3 NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. CROSS-EXAMINED 3Y MR. COAKER s Sergeant Swart, have you been to a number of such meetings, or was it an unusual duty for you? I have been to a number of meetings. Over what period? I should say a period of four to five years. You must have attended many dozens of meetings? Quite a number. I take it that you can't, apart from your notes, remember anything about the meetings in particular? No. Some things happened a long time ago. Your memory of what happened depends on which you have written down in your notes? That is correct. You can't for example remember whether particular speakers did or did not make use of interpreters? No. Of course it is quite impossible to take down every word a speaker says as you go along? I did not take down every word. I took down as much as I could. So it is impossible to take down every word? It is impossible. You can't write at that speed. And so it follows thai from your notes there are omissions. There are things that are said that are not written down? That is correct. correct. You wrote down as much as you could? That is As far as this particular meeting is concerned, have you any notes on the time which it began and the time which it ended? No, I didn't make any note of it and I can't remember. I suppose you can't even remember what time of the day it was. Whether it was an afternoon meeting, and evening meeting or a morning meeting? No. Meetings of this sort usually last for several hours? It all depends on how many speakers there are.

4 But it is not uncommon for them to last two or three hours? It is possible. It is not uncommon? Not uncommon. may have. So this meeting may have lasted three hours? It Anyway it is quite clear then that you don't contend that your notes contain a full reflection of the words used by the speakers. They contain as much as you were able to write down of what they said? That is correct. In some instances the sentences are inccmplete? Ye I suppose it is possible that in some instances you may have started on one sentence and written down, without any distinction another sentence as part of that sentence? As far as possible I left a space open wb(^re"lr~couldn' t follov^ or compl^te^a_sentence. As far as possible you did. But it may still have happened that you had a portion of one sentence and by the time your attention returned to what was being said, the speaker embarked on a new sentence? It may have happened. And that you may have written that down without indi ting any gap? It may have happened. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. NO RE-EXAMINATION. WILLEM BURGER TRUTER, duly sworn; ( ) EXAMINED BY THE P.P. : You have already given evidence? Is that correct? I have. Did you make notes at a meeting on the 27th February, 1955? I did. Did the last witness Sergeant Swart accompany you? Yes. Who commenced to make the notes? I took notes of one Mannie Pillay.

5 Who started to make the notes, can you say? Detective Sergeant Swart commenced to make notes. Do you know what meeting it was? It was - I cannot remember anymore. Where was it held? It was held in the Gandhi Library, Durban. You are now referring to Exhibit G. 452? I am. Whose speech did you take down at that meeting? One Mannie Pillay. He is also known as Y. S. M. Pillay. Is he one of the accused? Yes (145). Will you read what he said? "My subject has already been dealt with by.." - I have 'C.M.' here. It stands for 'Chairman'. - "... In spite of military might of ours. If mankind breath easier. It is because us exploited and other sections realise that until they play their part. The people have been able to change tone of Governments. Example is America. Supposed to be very mighty. The other is British. Ttey now speak different language. It is because of the people. They realise war is not in interest of any person. One sixth of the world got out of Capitalism. Second World War, China got out. Adventure of Third War. They will be chucked out. America poses it nose in Formosa. British say it is part of China. It is China's business. let work out themselves. In the same way we in South Africa must be able to have international picture. That is why all workers, youths must.." - I have omitted something here - ".. of solidarity. Sore point in international picture is Germany. We have a right as people to know what is going on in Germany. After second World War the Eastern Sector have been able to liberate themselves. In West they were dominated by,." - I have here 'A. E. B.'. It stands for 'America, England and France' - "... They have now decided to re-arm Germany. In France Government fell on account of rearmament issue.

6 People in Britain, Prance, Germany know that a third World War will play up havoc with people. We demand free election in Germany. We come to Kenya. It is the same imperialist adventure. Those are no more Mau Mau that we are. Poor Mau Mau's are being slaughtered because British Government cannot afford to lose Kenya. Defence strategy they cannot afford." That is all I have taken. Did you make any other notes in Exhibit G. 452? That's the only notes I took. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY THE P.P. : ( ). Did you make notes in respect of a meeting held on the 11th March, 1954? I did. Did you make the notes at the meeting? I did. You have the notes before you? I have. What meeting was it? It was a Stalin Memorial Committee Meeting. Where was it held? It was held in the Gandhi Library Hall, Durban. Did you make notes of the time when the meeting commenced? I did not. Can you say how many persons attended the meeting? No. Who was the Chairman? The Chairman was M» P. Naicker. Is he one of the accused? Yes. (140.) Will you read what he said? "Priends, first anniversary of Stalin. Pifth of passed away..." - I can't make this out - "... to Soviet Union for loss of great leader. Comrade Stalin has always to him for leadership. Throughout his life he strove for friendship, peace throughout. Lead his people. Three aspects this great leader and comrade of oppressed people. Most important took place before last War. I give you this because of his greatness. His one guiding

7 desire was for peace. Peace is possible between all nations. This is what Stalin always said. He believed that no racial oppression in any country. He tried to solve problems in Russia during Czar regime. Today Russia is an ideal state, leadership given by Stalin. We rededicate ourselves for the cause he stood for. It is vitally necessary for us to continue to say that we believe in great cause for what Stalin stood for. Halls were refused us because name of J. Stalin appeared on our leaflets. Friends, the second aspect is the calm genius of Stalin during the war. It was his genius which held the Nazi hordes. It was his genius which drove out Hitler and his hordes right to Berlin. After the war he stressed that of a lsting peace for all. People must live their full and happy life. He was the greatest of the great.." -I would like to explain here that the following day I wrote in certain things I remembered, in ink. It wasn't written in the same day. BY THE COURT : Your original notes were taken in pencil? Yes. The following day before I submitted my report to Headquarters I wrote in certain things I remembered all in ink. "... He was the greatest of the great anti-war monger That I wrote in the following day - "... The fact remains that a lasting peace came from Stalin. Even today America and England trade with Russia. Even W. Churchill now advocates trade with Russia because people will understand each other better. The meeting are to interest people in what he stood for. Although &ad his deeds will never die. There will always be meetings. I would like to call on you to assist against the oppression for peace, democracy and freedom in this country. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY P.P. : Who was the next speaker? The next speaker was Debi Singh. He is also one of the accused (149). He said "Comrades and Friends, I wish to

8 thank S. M. Committee.." - S. M. stands for 'Stalin Memorial Committee' - ".. to speak. I am proud to associate.." - I misled something - ".. first anniversary of J. Stalin. To contribute to a very great man. There have always been different groups of people who have different ideas. One 1 _ group willnnot associate with other groups of people. The Black people. We have for instance never met to.." - I have omitted a word - ".. death of Hitler or Mussolini. We also cannot glory applaud as such Chiang Kai Chek or Franco of Spain and needless to say Malan. We are here to record death of J. Stalin. If after his death he is known all over the world. He was the architect and leader of Socialist Russia. We do not meet to glory and associate because he was a communist. We as we meet here are not concerned with communism, but there are other reasons why we want to recall his passing. Stalin always sided with "the underdog, no matter his colour. Supported cause nf small nations. He condemned aggression. These are things which we respect. Example when Dutch exploited people of Indonesia, Stalin sided with weak and oppressed Indonesians. When British Empire tried oppress Egyptian people Stalin sided with Egyptian people. When came to workers being underpaid and denied education Stalin sided with oppressed workers. When question arose about oppressed people of this country, you found Stalin not sided with us the voteless, the voiceless. These are reasons that we say Stalin is great. Some other big men, such as Hitler, Mussolini, Chiang Kai Chek were powerful men but we don't.." - I have omitted something - "... for these men. They stand for domination. That is why we commemorate first death of Stalin. We are not interested in a communist state and his ideologies. You will find that there are certain great men like Nehru who paid very sincere tribute to Stalin. He is a great fighter against communism. The difference between Nehru and Malan is that Nehru is an

9 honest man. He may not agree with ideology of Stalin "but "because he sided with oppressed Nehru appreciated it. Before concluding I like to ask you that today the nation Stalin built played a very great role in affairs of world today. Specially as far as oppressed people are concerned. America with her dollars are trying to destroy independance of small country of world today. Russia is there to.." - I left something out - "... wicked designs of America. India, Kenya, Guana you will find. We must be thankful to Stalin for building up a state like this namely we are here to pay tribute to a really great statesman, J. Stalin." Who was the next speaker? I also made notes at the same meeting of Stephen Dhlamini. Is he one of the accused? He is one of the accused (128). Will you read? "G. and C. Comrades and gentlemen. History of Joseph Stalin. Before advent of pass laws. Immediately after Revolution Stalin era and people of Russia put their heads together. It was more or less like South Africa. Immediately he took over industry was distributed all over Russia. Another thing, food of people. Immediately Stalin provided food for people. He took land away from landlords and distributed it to people. South Africa rivers wasted in sea. In Russia they are diverted to people. Less fertile and also for electricity, agriculture. Time of Czar only looked to profit. Russia under Stalin always worked for peace. They insist on peace not bombs." The next speaker was Carrim Arnra. He is not one of the accused. EXHIBIT G Will you omit his speech. You hand in your notes FURTHER EXAMINATION BY P.P. : ( ) Did you make notes in respect of a meeting held on the 25th April, 1954? I did.

10 Did you make the notes at the meeting? I did. And you have your notes now "before you? I have. What meeting was it? It was a Natal Peace Council Meeting. Where was it held? It was held in the Bantu Social Centre, Durban. Can you say what time the meeting commenced? It was sometime during the afternoon. I cannot remember. Who was the Chairman at the meeting? The Chairman was D. A. Seedat. He is one of the accused. (146). Will you read what he sgid? "People must bring pressure on their Government that atom bombs must not be used. If we allow the Government who produce bombs not for people but for destruction, humanity will be destroyed. Things people have built centuries must then be destroyed. We say atomic must be used for industrial expansion. These things must be used to alleviate the misery under which millions live. Atomic energy is very useful. It can be used factories, ships. When we can use energy for useful purposes then it is not necessary for people to stave as people are. Who are these people threatening to use H.and A. bombs and who they want to use it against? The U. S. A. Government who exploded the H. bomb. Prominent person said these bombs must be used against Viernam and China. We don't read or hear of Russia or Chinese troops guarding other people or keeping other people down, and we don't hear of these countries I mention forming air bases in other countries, but we hear of American soldiers in India, England and Africa. We read of French soldiers killing people where fierce war.." - I have omitted something - "... We read of English soldiers killing people in Africa. These people who are experimenting with bombs. They want to use it against us, and those other countries. Thank God people are realising. Peace Movement.

11 In U. S. A..." - I am sorry. - "... Thank God people are realising Peace Movement in U. S. A. are lead "by Paul Robeson. In England you have Dean of Canterbury. In France Creig. Canada Reverend Andicott. Reverend Thompson leading Peace Movement in South Africa. Day by day people are realising, band together and ask their respective Governments that bombs must be banned because bombs are not differentiate between Black and White millions. We all can be destroyed, particularly the American Government if they carry on with bombs. When I was young I heard of gangsters and murderers in Chicago. But G. and M..." - That stands for 'gangsters and murderers' - ",,. rule America today. Take gun awayl We must do same thing from madman who ruling America. We must take away the bomb. We who want to live a full life and who want to see South Africa where there is no colour bar. It is our duty to wake up and demand as those thousands in Europe who know what war is. They have seen two wars. Our duty to arouse people in South Africa..." - I have 'B 1 and 'W' here - "... Black and White. Our duty to arouse people in South Africa, Black and White. There is place for everyone. We are all agreed Big Powers must thrash :ut difference round table. Some struggling against bad laws in South Africa. Some may not agree with us. Some may say we are not interested in politics. He may shop or ten storey building. There is place for everyone in Peace Movement. If bomb drops we all will be destroyed, whether we live in Durban or in Ladysmith. The people who produce do not even know the.." - I have omitted a word - "..of bomb. Namely it is important for us who struggle for our freedom in this country because these warmongers want to destroy our freedom. It is our duty to tell people the danger weapon. Nothing will prevent America to drop bomb in Kenya or everywhere people struggling for their freedom. The amount of money spent on one bomb can -L

12 can build school for every child in South Africa. We say to America who keeps fifteen millions negroes worse condition as we in South Africa. The negro people in Southern States are not allowed in buses, etc. Who are your friends? The Americans or Russians, Chinest or other who are not oppressing the people. We say those countries can live side by side, some round table and discuss the matter. We say where smoke there is fire. If people in Indo-China or people in Kenya they must have grievance or they will not be fighting. As we people. As people in Kenya are not allowed to buy land in Kenya. All land in this country belongs to European ruling class and you know how many grievances we have against the Government of this country. That is how people are treated in Kenya, Vietnam. The ruling started Mau Mau in Kenya. In this country Cheesa Cheesa. Same thing happen". That is how far I took these notes. And who continued with his notes with his speech? Detective Sergeant van Staden took notes there. He took notes from Miss Bean. She is not one the the accused. Will you omit her speech? And the next person from whom you took notes? The next speaker was again Seedat^ Read his speech? "One of the many meetings we will still hold. We hope speakers churchmen, leaders of political. We hope meeting in Town Hall, and culture and social organisations. That meeting we hope to pass a resolution calling on South African Government to ban H. and A. bombs and set up international commission to go to every country and inspect". He just then referred to a special edition of the Advance Newspaper. That is all. You hand in your notes EXHIBIT G. 455? Yes. Can you remember that you attended a meeting in the presence of a person called Mr. Marshall? Yes. Who is he? He is a shorthand expert at that time

13 attached to the High Court, Durban. Was that the only meeting you attended accompanied by Mr. Marshall? That was the only meeting. What did you do at the meeting? I pointed out and named the speakers on the platform. Do you remember whether you prepared the list of names of names as well of persons who attended the meeting? After the meeting we took names of all those present at the meeting. I also took some names. I do. Do you know the following persons? Mr. I. C. Meer? Is he one of the accused? He is one of the accused (134). Do you know Advocate Slovo? I do. He is one of the accused (72). Do you the person Professor Kuper? I do. He is not one of the accused. A person Mr. Hoogendyk? I do. He is one of the accused (130-). Pather Huddleston. Do you know him? I do. He is not one of the accused. BY THE COURT : In what connection were these names mentioned?... I still remember the meeting. It was a meeting to protest against the Western Areas Removal Scheme. not take notes. You didn't take any notes of the meeting? I did Where was the meeting held? In the Gandhi Memorial Hall, Durban. You can't say whether these were the persons you identified to Mr. Marshall? Mr. Marshall took shorthand notes of the speech. They are the speakers I identified. Do you remember that? I still remember that particular meeting.

14 CROSS-EXAMINED BY MR. COAKER : Mr. Truter the notes which you read out today, are all made in longhand? They are all made in longhand. You must have been to a great many meetings? I have been to quite a number. Over quite a number of years? Yes. In general, I take it that you remember nothing about the meetings concerned, except what appears in your notes? Yes. Except for certain incidents. You think you might be able to remember certain little incidents? That is what I understand you to say. You may be able to remember certain little incidents? Yes. But without your notes your couldn't say who spoke on a particular day? No. Nor could you say where a meeting was held on a particular day? No. Nor could you say what language was used by a particular speaker? As a rule they all speak English. But whwn a speaker didn't happen to follow that rule you can't be certain now, without looking at your notes whether he followed that rule or not? I am prepared to concede that. Nor can you remember today when at a particular meeting an interpreter was or was not used for a particular speaker? Not without referring to my notes. That is what I am putting to you. No without referring to your notes. It is impossible for you to keep up in longhand with what is being said by a speaker as he is talking? Yes. You cannot possibly hope to get down everything he says? It is impossible. It is even doubtful if yc-u can get down even half of what he says? Yes. Probably less than half of what he says of what you get down? I am prepared to concede that.

15 can? But of course you do your best to get down what you I do. I notice that sometimes you indicate in your notes that you left something out? I did. On other occasions you didn't even have time to indicate that you omitted something? Quite right. Does it ever happen, do you think, that when you are writing down part of a sentence, you hear part of the following sentence, and as it were run them together and write down as though they were one? Do you follow the question? Yes, I do. You think that might happen? The procedure I try and follow is to memorise something and put it down immediately. But of course I lose what is being said afterwards. ~You sometimes also lose the thread of what you are trying to memorise? Yes, I do. So I take it, that in general at these meetings, what the speaker says appears at the time to make sense? That is right. It doesn't often sound like complete nonsense? Yes. So if you ^were to find passages in your notes which don't seem to be intelligible, it would follow that you had not r got down what the speaker said? That is so. And it might be because you roll together two sentences and make them intcponey - That TsT'also possible. Mr. Truter, you went with Detective Head Constable Zietsman to a certain meeting on the 10th February, 1955? you any evidence about such a meeting? Yes. Do you remember any speakers at that meeting? without referring to my notes. I put it to you, we've had evidence about it from Mr. Zietsman, that a speech was there made by one Yes. Do you remember the meeting? Have Not H. E. Mall? I take it you don't?

16 - 3915o- I wouldn't like to say I do. I know Mall. Now we've had evidence that at that meeting, something like this was said by Mr. Mall "Anyone can tell you that we have never preached violence. known on violence. The views of the Congress are In order to pacify the Minister I again state that the Congresses are opposed to the use of violence. If the Police behave as well as the people behave, there will be no violence anywhere,.." and so on. "Have we ever advocated violence against the Whites. Cries of No, No, No. We do not prach hatred of the Whiteman. I hope this message will be conveyed to the Minister of Justice in the Cape Province, and we believe in peaceful co-existence in a truly democratic country". Now you in the course of your experience of meeting have often heard statements resembling that one made by ^ B B ^ M M ( ^ M M B M i M ^ ^ ^ m speakers, have you not? I have.. these meetings? It is characteristic of the sort of things said at Yes. And indeed, one migfrt almost go so far as to say that at virtually every meeting of the Indian Congress some such statement like that is made by one or more of the speakers? j Yes. That is your experience? NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. NO RE-EXAMINATION. It is my experience. (Accused Nos. 130, 131, 46 and 41 now returned to Court). MARTHINUS PETRUS VAN STADEN, duly sworn. EXAMINED BY THE P.P. j You are a detective Sergeant, South African Police, stationed where? Jan Smuts Airport. During April, 1954, were you stationed at Durban? Yes. Did you accompany Head Constable Truter to a meeting in Durban? That is correct.

17 What date? Can you say? I am afraid I don't remember the date. And do you still remember where it was held? Do you remember you made notes at that meeting? Yes. What notes did you make? I took these notes, from a speech made by a person called D. A. Seedat. Can you say whether he is one of the accused? Yes. (146). Your notes which you took, do they appear in Exhibit G. 455? Yes. And the rest of the notes were made by? By Detective Head Constable Truter. Did you make your notes at the same meeting? At the same meeting. You took down portion of Seedat (146)? Yes. Will you read what you took down? "I remember Swart saying when banned Communist Party, poison." Here I omitted several wo#ds. - "Lately they came out Chesa Chesa. They have motive behind. They themselves burn houses and say Chief Luthuli or his people are responsible. Our struggle for freedom and peace must go side by side. The one must link with the other and therefore it is important for us to speak of peace. Our movement will go further and further if we can stop~~the warmongers in the U. S. A. from making war. Only two or three days ago when wanted to fly troops from Prance to Indo-China, India objected, because India of two hundred years under the rule of British Imperialism knows what it is to be subjected to foreign powers. America never votes with India who always fights for rights and freedom of those oppressed. Those countries like Spain, Holland, also refrain from voting like this Government in South Africa. Therefore the Peace Council in this country says like the movement in other countries is our duty to fight for peace". At this stage

18 Detective Head Constable Truter continued taking down the P3 4 speech of the same speaker. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. NO RE-EXAMINATION. JOHN LOUIS COETZEE, duly sworn, (l ) EXAMINED BY THE P.P. : You are a Detective Sergeant South African Police, stationed at Pietermaritzburg? I am. On the 1st of May, 1956, where were you stationed? I was then stationed at Durban. Did you make notes in respect of a meeting held on the 1st May, 1956? I did. Did you make the notes at the meeting? I made the notes at the meeting? And you have the notes now before you? I have. On the 26th May, 1956, did you also make a statement in connection with the same meeting? I did. I have. And you have the statement also before you? ' In your statement, you refer to your statement, oan you say what meeting it was? No. Where was it held? It was held in the Gandhi Library, Queen Street, Durban. Can you say who the Chairman was at the meeting? Stephen Dhlamini. Is he one of the accused? Yes. (128). Did he address the meeting? He also addressed the meeting. Will you read what he said? Was he the first speaker? He was the first speaker. "May Day is a day to remember because it is an anti-imperialistic day. It is a day when all

19 workers rally together. I call upon Comrade Errol Shanley." Is he one of the accused? He is. (147). What did he sayd? "Fellow workers, this is May day. Perhaps you do not ralise the significance of May day. May day is the day of the International working class. Why is there such a day. It all started seventy years ago in the U. S. A. In those days in the foremost country of the capitalistic system the workers were working from fourteen to sixteen hours a day. They created the.." - I can't make out that word - "... classes of the U. S. A. There..." - The next word I cannot make out - "... when the workers Union called a conference and decided to work eight hours a day only." - Then he set out the history and significance of May Day. I did not complete the whole of his speech there. - "... Today, seventy years after the first May Day demonstration, mass meetings and demonstrations for peace and rights against fascism are taking place. The workers in those countries.." - I cannot make out the next two words - "... in Eastern Europe and the Soviet countries are marching and demonstrating to the workers in the capitalistic countries what workers' solidarity can do. Then there is the movement in the Colonial countries. It makes us think and realise that great things are taking place. When the Nationalist party came into power,... " - I can't make this out - "... was pretty bad. The only difference now is that the position is worse". Who was the next speaker? C. R. Singh. Is he one of the accused? No he is not one of the accused. Read what he said? I made a note here. "Made propaganda for C.O.P. - Congress of People and its value." Then he spoke about Peace. Then he said "There were two wars in recent times. The first war was organised by

20 capitallists, its international. Millions were killed and injured. The last one was worse than the first one. It was fascism marching through Europe... " - I cannot make out the next sentence - "... they want peace. The workers do not want to kill each other. They want peace." Is that the end of his speech? That is the end of C. R. Singh's speech. And the next speaker? The next speaker was Billy Nair. Is he one of the accused? He is (142). Read what he said? "I do not want to repeat what Comrade Shanley said. Whilst the whole world is marching forward to progress, South Africa is marching backwards. We will have to... " - I cannot make out the two words - "... Here in South Africa mass May Day rallies are being held. We must not feel that because our meeting is small we are neglected. To attack the working class the Strijdom Government has introduced the Industrial Conciliation Bill to make slaves of the workers. Comrades, the workers who have struggled and fought for better wages and conditions will now have their Unions torn asunder on racial lines. The strike weapon, the traditional weapon of the workers will also be taken away." He then continued to attack the Industrial Concilliation Bill and also appealed to workers to join the Congress of the People and support it. That was the end of his speech. You hand in your notes? I do. EXHIBIT G CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. SLOYO : Sergeant, have you any recollection as to when this meeting started? Yes, about 5.45 p.m. What time did it end? At about 6.50 p.m. Have you got any note of that anywhere? Yes, it

21 is in my notes. Were the speakers all speaking in English? Yes, they were. No interpretation? That is possible. Was there any interpretation? I said that is possible. There was, or there wasn't? You don't know? I don't know at the moment. Do you usually make a note of it when an interpreter is used? I invariably do. Is there any note to show you that an interpreter is used, was used? No, there are no notes. So no interpreter was used? Evidently not. Evidently not? Well, definitely not? I cannot say definitely not. I have no reference of an interpreter being used... Sergeant, you told us a minute ago, that when an interpreter is used, you invariably make a note of that? I do. I take it that it is just a matter of ordinary common sense that if you haven't got a note of it, that an interpreter wasn't used? Correct. So an interpreter was not used? Correct. We can assume that as being definite? Yes. Now, I take it that you got down very, very littl of what the speakers had to say? I got down very little. Very, very little? Very little. Are you proficient in the English language. It is your second language? It is my second language. If I put it to you that you could not have got down more than about - 10$ of what was said, would you agree with me or not? I don't know about the percentage. That

22 r is rather difficult for me to estimate. But I got down very little. I notice that in the case of the speaker Singh, for instance, he could have finished what you recorded here, if he had to just say it in about fifteen seconds, twenty seconds? That is possible. slowly? The same applies to most speakers? Quite. Are you a very slow recorder? Do you write very Very, yes. And I take it that you will agree with me, therefore, that it is impossible, even if you write very fast, to get down what a speaker has to say when his speech is npt being..? It is impossible. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. NO RE-EXAMINATION. MOONSAMY NAIDOO, duly sworn, EXAMINED BY THE P.P. : ( ) You are an Indian Detective Sergeant, South African Police, stationed at Durban? Yes. Did you make notes in respect of a meeting held on the 29th April, 1956? Yes. You made the notes at the meeting and you have them before you. Is that correct? Yes. What meeting was it? Merebank Branch of the Natal Indian Congress. Where was it held? At the Merebank Indian School, near Durban. About what time did the meeting commence? 2.50 p.m. Until when can you say? I can't say. Who was the Chairman at the meeting? R. G. Pillay. He is not one of the accused? No.

23 What did he say. Will you read what he said? He opened the meeting and said that the main reason for calling this meeting was to tell the local people the implications of the Group Areas Act on the various sections of the community. He said he was also aware that the Police Department was also represented at this meeting and hoped that the official would report hack the feelings of the Indian Community of Merehank in regards the implementation of the Act. He jc then introduced G. Hurhans as a guest speaker. Is he one of the accused? Yes. (131). Did he address the meeting? Yes. What did he say? He said "This is the first time I have dome to a meeting of this branch. I am glad to learn that the local Indian community are not co-operating with the City^Council's plan to expropriate land for Indian housing. I do not blame you people for your stand because of the previous experience our people had with the Council. The Government policy before and after it had come into power is to get the Indians out of the country. Because of its failure to repatriate they are now making it their duty to see that the Group Areas Act is enforced and eventually the Indian would find the country so uncomfortable that he would ultimately leave. The only way to fight the Group Areas Act is by non collaboration, that is when the Group Area proposal plans gre submitted to us. We must not demarcate areas but say that we want to be where we are and in doing so the Act would be unworkable. That is the policy of the South African Indian Congress and is the best policy. On the 5th of May, 1956, an All in Conference is being called at Bharat Hall and I like those present here to also ask others to be pressnt at the opening at 2.30 p.m. and listen to people who have studied the Act ^nd are aware of its implications. Mr. Leo Lovell will open the Conference.

24 At this stage Mr. N. T. Naicker, Secretary General of the N. I. C. was introduced. N. T. Naicker? Is he one of the accused? Yes.(141) Did he then address the meeting? Yes. Read what he said? The "banishment and "banning of the leaders of the N. I. C. and African National Congress indicates that the Nationalist Government is afraid of these organisations and are doing their utmost to suppress them. The thousands of delegates of various races that attended the Kliptown Congress of People Conference and the twentyfive thousand Europeans of the Transvaal who have already signed the Freedom Charter goes to show that we are not alone in this struggle for freedom. The ten million non-europeans of this country together with other European democratic organisations should stand "by the Freedom Charter drawn up at Kliptown. One should take note of countries of struggle in spite of their hopelessness of freedom. These things are happening in the country where very often reads of sten guns "being freely used on the voiceless people of this country. We demand nothing more than freedom in their country of birth. A call was made to nineteen organisations to participate in the Conference on Saturday, but so far only ten have responded." Do you know what position Hurbans occupied in the Natal Indian Congress? He was introduced as the Vice- President of the Natal Indian Congress. You hand in your notes EXHIBIT G. 457? Yes. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS. NO CROSS-EXAMINATIONS

25 COURT RESUMES 7/5/57; MR. CQAKER ADDRESSES COURT; Accused Absent: Position same as on 6/5/57? except that Accused No. 80 and 111 now back in Court. Accused No. 151, returned to Court. Accused No. 25 and Accused No. 81, granted leave of absence certificates to be handed in later. PAUL ZULU, duly 8worn, (Interps E. Mazwai, Zulu/English) EXAMINED BY P.P. (MR. VAN PER WALT) You are a native detective sergeant, S.A.Police, stationed at Durban? That is correct. Did you make notes in respect of a meeting held on 17th July, 1955,?-- I did. Did you make the notes at the meeting? Yes. And you have your notes before you? Yes. Was the meeting a meeting of the African National Congress? Yes. Where was it held? At Cato Manor, Durban. Can you say what time the meeting commenced? not make a note of that. I did Who was the chairman at the meeting? P. Khumalo. Was there also a secretary at the meeting? Yes. Who was it? Miss Nala. How many persons attended the meeting? 32 males and females. Who was the first speaker at the meeting? Rev. Mkize. Omit what he said. Who spoke after him? Mr. Khumalo. He was the chairman. Read what he said? "Members I am taken up by the prayer of Rev. Mkize who is with us in the struggle. He does not ask for money but offers himself to the nation. Now we are to allow delegates who attended the C.O.P. to report back. I hope you know the object of this meeting and I know you are eagerly waiting for the report of the meeting held in Kliptown, but first before this I must let you know that in that meeting in

26 Kliptown now I shall leave the report to Mr. Manana though he is late for the meeting," Who was the next speaker? Mr. Manana. Is he one of the Accused? Yes. (133.) Read what he said?-- "I agree to give you full report of what took place in Kliptown. and in Kliptown Dr. Conco was the chairman." Firstly our journey was good Do you know this person, Dr. Conco? Yes, I do. Is he one of the Accused? Yes. (127) Continue reading? "...The meeting began by reading messages from abroad and awards to three members of the African National Congress, (l) Luthuli, (2) Rev. Huddleston, (3) Dr. Dadoo. president. Presidential address from Mr. A. Luthuli as general In the meantime the Freedom Charter was being made and messages from various countries abroad were read wishing the meeting a success. before we have got our freedom. people from whom such messages came. I say we mustnot get tired on the way Mr. Manana read names of towns Now I must tell you of the Sunday meeting which went well from the morning till 2 p.m. and at about 3 p.m. police came as if they were to do something great to unarmed people. detectives, Police were about 300 or 400 with The police showed a warrant which they were also armed with and They searched every person who was there. Freedom Charter was never captured, I mean the original copy, but this did not deter us these fools otherwise mad people 0 There was no reason for the police to carry arms against unarmed people. The Why I say this is because the Minister of Justice himself approved of our meeting, but men under him went against this approval, but no one took care of them, because we don't mean trouble at all. This is the summary of all xhat took place there. I therefore take this as item 1. Item 2 is conv ^. nected with danger faces residents of this locality," Who was the next speaker? The next speaker was Khumalo v the chairman.

27 Read what he said? "Yes, we have no freedom in this country. Now take the construction of our houses here. It cause your children to have no respect to us as fathers and mothers. Corporation promised us good houses, but where are those houses? Where are the board members? How do Indians be always successful in all what they do? It is because they use their brains better and are united." Who was the next speaker? Mrs. H. Ostrich. Omit her speech. Who was the next speaker? Mrs.Nyembe Do you know the Christian name? Dorothy. Is she one of the Accused? Yes. (144.) Will you read what she said? I am glad to see Sons and Daughters of Africa in this gathering, but am not going to make any speech with regard to the meeting in Kliptown, but I am more concerned with our living in this locality. The Corporto ation has done this wrong/us. (l) Teach our children to be pickpockets. (2) Children to know that we visit our husband in the night. These houses are not suitable for married people. The area itself is congested. Something should be done to this." Who was the next speaker? Manana. He spoke previously; is that the same speaker? Yes. (133). "Let me talk about a special pass. This pass is in Section 10. It deals with men only and it is coming to our women. This section 10 forces any native to carry pass from the age of 16 years. Now, the new plan is that the corporation will ask all women to come for permission to remain in the urban areas and this pass will be valid for 12 months only. So to give the authorities a chance to get rid of African women. Now comes section 14, which will force you to leave the area within 72 hours. Therefore I say, every person who is a member of the African National Congress shall not suffer all such restrictions therefore you must this organisation and we shall fight this drastic issues. I say this fearlessly in the presence of police.

28 Those who have no tickets must take them now. I must now explain to you the reason why our organisation are weak. Is because you don't pay your subscriptions. You must all know that in December 1955 we shall go to Bloemfontein for another meeting. That will be on the 16th, 17th and 18th." The meeting closed at p.m. (Notes handed in G.458) FURTHER EXAMINATION BZ P.P. (17/7/55) You also made notes in respect of another meeting on the 17th July, 1955.? That is correct. Did you make your notes at the meeting? Yes. You have your notes before you? Yes. Was it a meeting of the African National Congress? Yes. Where was it held? Chesterville, a location near Durban. About what time did the meeting commence? 2.25 p.m. Until when? 5.10 p.m. About how many persons attended the meeting? 50 male and females. Who was the chairman? M.A. Bhengu. Who was the secretary at the meeting? P.F.J. Manana. Is he one of the Accused? Yes. (133) Who was the first speaker? Rev. Mkize opened the meet ing with a prayer. Who was the first speaker then? Bhengu, the chairman Read what he said? "First, I'll have to thank the Chesterville Branch for the help they rendered for delegates to the Congress of the People meeting. Today we are here to let them know what took place there. Now, Mr. Manana and I will read the Freedom Charter." Who was the next speaker? Manana.

29 The secretary? Yes. Read what he said? "Before this I would like all delegates to be short in making this report, either than the Freedom Charter." (Freedom charter in Zulu language road by M.A. Benghu.) Who was the next speaker? An unknown Basuto, Read what he said? "Greetings to you all and I stand to appreciate what has been done by the Congress of the People and had shown the spirit of unity of all races and to encourage our leaders to carry on. We Basutos, Zulus, Xosas and other races should come to a solution and rule this country with fairness. I must remind you of this proverb; United we stand, divided we fall." Who was the next speaker? D. Nyembe. Is she one of the Accused? Yes. Dorothy Nyembe.(144=) Read what she said? "Thanking this opportunity I must be proud to mention that we succeeded in formulating our 'J. dom Charter. There in the Transvaal everyone is Congress member. Police or no police, teachers, etc., etc. " Who was the next speaker? A. Nene. Read what he said? "This is the Freedom Charter. Nov/ we come back with it. You have heard it yourselves. I am sure you all need freedom, liberty, therefore it is no use to criticise the African National Congress because you are criticising yourself. In the Congress of the People meeting there were 102 Europeans. There were delegates from the other side of our Union border. On the second day police came but we were no+ cited because we meant what we are doingnow. I must also thank the founders of the African National Congress and others who supported the movement. Last not the least, I must say, Natal is still afraid and is still backward in all respects." Who was the next speaker? Mrs. H. Ostrich. Omit her speech. Who spoke after her? Mr. Khoza 0

30 Read what he said? "I like to talk amongst grownups like you because you are useless for the nation. You know, the Freedom Charter has been made. All what we want is in there, so we shall not be wrong in demanding such freedom. God would not have been a fool to create a nation just to see it being tortured forev r. Some people still ask: "What do the Chiefs say about this. Let me mention this. The chiefs are Government servants. They cannot agree with the African National Congress or the Congress of the People. Another thing, is our living in the area, in fact, there is no health at all but our houses are such we have to undress in the presence of our children. We get water from the lavatory. Is that justice? Time will come when we shall all enjoy the wealth of this country. I therefore wish everyone here to join the Congress. Here now we have two charters. One was made in 1910, the other in So we must work on this 1. 1 Who was the next speaker? Miss Khumalo. Read? "All went well in Kliptown. Freedom Charter was formed. People declared to have one spirit. There we were asked to give our grievances as well as Europeans. Some remarked on cattle limitation. The next day police came but this did not diminish our spirit of unity and determination." The next speaker? W.G. Champion. Read what he said? "Mr. Chairman, I am glad to have this opportunity to say a few words. It is a common thing that when a person grows old he is always blamed and criticised by the young people. I have said that I am not a leader. I was cnly sent by the Industrial Commercial Union authorities to come to Natal, so I did. Here I am. The time has now come when I am called a good boy or a European stooge. I appreciate to be out of platform at this time because you don't like a leader like myself who will face a European personally. You know there are three ways of talking with a European, to appeal, to go to court or use force.'"

31 Who was the next speaker? Rev. I.H. Mkize. Omit his speech. Who was the next speaker? P.S.J. Manana. "Read messages from various countries overseas and further saids "You have heard everything now it remains with you to keep the fire burning. In Kliptown police came and seized all documents found in the meeting, but I say they were on the wrong way because we were not armed and I deny that Mr. Swart gave the order to the police to raid the meeting. It wasjust police by themselves. All documents seized by the police are nothing. We have proper ones with us. We were no fools as we knew beforehand that there would be such. The Freedom Charter has been made therefore we must be ready to fight on. Some people say we are sharpening the Government against the people, The nation, well it is so, what then? This Government want us to say, yes baas, that's all and be removed from place to place. Po you accept that? Hold the iron though it is hot. There is no other way about it. If anyone can say we are made, I say he or she is mad. In Pecember we are going to attend a conference in Bloemfontein so we need help financially." The next speaker? Mr. Msoni. Omit his speech. Who was the next speaker? Manana. The same person? Yes. "Say, today I am a prisoner because I objected to section 10. That is the special pass which is a danger to the entire nation. In Cape Town I addressed a meeting of the Congress of Democrats. After which I was questioned and I refused to give them my particulars, except my name and address. I say to you if any member of the Force asks or demands your particulars, refuse to do so. You must prefer a charge. Police always ask you all sorts of nonsense. Don't do it. There is always Section 14 which forces you to get out of the urban areas." And then? Mr. Bhengu, the chairman; "I would like to know from you whether you do accept the Freedom Charter." Answer yes, unanimously. i

32 Was that from the audience? Yes. (Notes handed in G.459) FURTHER EXAMINATION BY P.P.: (10/8/55.) Did you make notes in respect of a meeting held on 10/8/55? Yes. You made the notes at the meeting? Yes. Was it a meeting of the African National Congress? Yes. Where was it held? Somtseu Location, Durban. About what time did the meeting commence? 8 p.m. Until when? Until 9.30 p.m. About how many persons attended the meeting? 30. Who was the chairman? G. Mei. Is he one of the Accused? Yes. (135.) Did the chairman address the meeting? Yes. Read what he said? The chairman opened the meeting and said: "I am very much sad to remind of late 0. Nkwanyana who struggled very much to bring you to what you are today and he stood firm to his last breath. I must remind you of one thing. Your forefathers did everything of their day, but now have things have changed to what it is now. But/you caught up with conditions. Now the Congress of the People has been formed for your common good. Now I would like to ask Mr. Nkwanya to speak." Did he then address the meeting? Yes. Read what he said? "I thank the opportunity given to me as your delegate to the Congress of the People and I must tell you of this that I have seen something worth to tell you about the Congress of the People. Our way to the Congress of the People conference was difficult. We were always stopped by the police on our journey for question, but we succeeded to reach Joburg. But I am afraid to say our meeting was raided by the police. All our documents were taken. Now I have nothing

33 to show you or say much about the meeting. About the meeting many things were said, particularly about farm labourers which is a sad story to tell. About 3 p.m. on Sunday of the meeting police stormed the meeting with sten guns and raided the meeting and we were deprived of our loudspeaker and one European lady spoke effectively regardless of the police. The police number was over 200 but the Freedom Charter was already inaugurated. I must tell you that Mr. Zondi is to be thanked for what he did by aiding me with funds for me to reach Johannesburg. Let me tell you this, that if we sit down and don't fight for our freedom we are not going anywhere. There the Europeans are also struggling for their future generations to come. So where are we now if we speak we are regarded as agitators, etc. Today the influx control is in its full force, but if so, how are we to maintain our living. Therefore let us talk with one voice today if you leave your work and go home for few months and when you return after 3 months you will not b accepted in Durban. Therefore I leave the Charter with the chairman to read it to you. My last word is: Zulus unite and fight for your rights. This is our father's country. Today we have no land, but where are we to stay." Who was the next speaker? Gi Mei, the chairman. (135) Read what he said? "I must say delegates in the Congress of the People were about 300,000 but the police came late after the Charter had been formed. I say if you are dissatisfied with your wages, etc., how can you say everything is right? If you are still a slave, how can you say you are free in your father's country. I must remind you of men working in mines and they earn only a month and the whole wealth of this country goes to a minority whites. Why? We only one-tenth of the wealth of this country." Then Mr. Mohale read the Freedom Charter from the New Age issue of that week. Mr. G. Mei interpreted. "So you have heard the Freedom Charter and now it

34 depends on you to move it forward to its success." Who was the next speaker? Memela. Read what he said? Fathers and brothers of Africa, I say I have love for my people. As to what I saw in Joburg, Kliptown. Everyone there was prepared for anything that would happen there, death or anything. Police stormed our meeting well armed to kill but we defied all that because we were sure that this country is ours and if we die for it is justified. Some of you say that we are sharpening the Europeans against the nation, but that is wrong. What are we going to tell your ancestors after death, or that you did nothing to regain such v --- ~ ' back. Wake and fight unitedly. You are being sold to sugar cane farmers and mines today. You carry reference books and mind you this refer is a policeman to send you home." And the next speaker? Unknown native. Read what he said? "Why is that this hall is not full today when there is a bioscope this hall is full. I think it is because we failed to organised ourselves to fill this hall. let all of us be delegates at work in sports and in our dormitories. The Government realises our struggle and is determined to destroy it. We must teach each other that any European is bad." The next speaker? Mei, the chairman. Read? "I say we must not apply hate. The Congress motto is all must share the wealth of this country." The next speaker? Mr. Zondi. Omit his speech.? Ghezi was the next speaker. Read what he said? "I would like to know about the Congress of the People and its object since this country believe in colour bar and segregation. And then who spoke? Mei, the chairman. "Indians in this country do not make laws but privileges are given them which automatically introduce barriers and segregation in many respects. Some of us still believe that apartheid is a good

35 thing but they will realise this after," The next speaker? Shezi, the same person. "Why to me it seems that Indians have more tendencies of segregation than the Government," The next speaker? Mei, the chairman. "Remember Indians are in two groups, Muslims and Hindus or so, but we all Africans support them in their businesses which are ruled by certain restrictions by the Government. Remember every law in this country is made to oppress us. I appeal to you to support your organisation. Give anything from a penny and so. Remember I have paid 10/- for circulars." (Notes handed in G.460) FURTHER EXAMINATION BY P.P.; (14/8/55.) Did you also make notes in respect of a meeting held on 14th August, 1955? Yes, I did. You made the notes at the meeting? Yes, I did. And you have your notes now? Yes. Was it a meeting? Of the African National Congress. What time did the meeting commence? a.m. Until when? 5 p.m. Where was the meeting held? I have not written that down here. Was it in Durban? It was. How many persons attended? 50 males and 28 females. Who was the chairman?-- P. Manana. Is he one of the Accused? Yes. (133) Who was the secretary at the meeting? S. Dlamini. Is he one of the Accused? Yes. (128) Who was the first speaker? Rev. Mkize prayed. Who was then the first speaker? S. Ramini, the secretary.

36 Read what happened? He explained to the meeting that the chairman failed to attend this meeting in time, reason unknown and you all know that this is a regional conference. Therefore I must announce this that it is a closed session of the conference until 3 p.m. chairman. Mr. Manana was elected acting What happened then? Item and 2 of the agenda was dealt with in close session. You were not present? No. When did they open the Session again? 3.45 p.m. Who was then addressing the meeting? Mr. Manana, the chairman. Read what he said? Manana expressed that it should be the work of all branches of the Congress to organise more members to join in with the Congress, so that when we go to Queenstown very soon we know that we have the backing of the najority. Who was the next speaker? G. Mei. Is he one of the Accused? Yes. (135.) Read what he said? "Mr. Chairman am glad am given this opportunity to say that perhaps some of you heard that the S.A. Railways Staff Association has been dissolved by the Government. I therefore wish to remark on the S.A.Police itself, we know very well that we have sons employed there as police, these sons are not allowed to voice their grievances, their pay is lower than any other section of the police. Police, particularly Africans do all sorts of things to their mothers, arresting, etc., but I say do not hate them. They are under a certain pressure to do so. In the Railways wages are cut down but there is no reason for that therefore I appeal to you to be determined and organise more members so to make our voice heard. Look wat happened in the United Tobacco Company. This firm is crumbling down just of a single boycott. Europeans say

37 that every African is equal to a nine years old European child, but I deny that. It is only an excuse for what they do to us. Let us forget racialism amongst us. Let us work together." Who was the next speaker? Unknown native. Omit his speech.? The next was Manana, the chairman. "I say this Cato Manor Beerhall will not cease to function unless you stand up and fight againt and what is more, apartheid has been introduced so why the corporation employ Europeans in such beerhalls. V/e are given permits to brew er therefore what is the necessity of the Corporation to put up beerhalls. I therefore suggest that all our women should storm the beerhall to get their husbands out of the beerhall." The next speaker? Mr. Memela. Omit his speech. The next speaker? Miss Roslina. Omit her speech.? Next was an unknown native. Omit his speech.? G. Mei was next. That is the same person who spoke previously? Yes. Read? "I stand to suggest this that all branches of the African National Congress should study the conditions in Cato Manor and protest to the corporation to take away European from amongst natives." The next speaker?-- J.A. Mhlongo. Omit his speech.?-- Next was B. Mkize. Her Christian name? Bertha. Is she one of the Accused? Yes. (136.) Read what she said? "I suggest that all women be called together to fight this out successfully." Miss B. Mkize's suggestion was carried unanimously as a resolution and it will be given a final decision on the 20th instant. Who was the next speaker? S. Dlamini. Is he the same person who spoke previously? Yes. "There will be a meeting on the 21stAugust, 1955 > at Somtsu Location where we shall further place our grievances."

38 Who was the next speaker? Dr. Conco. Is he one of the Accused? Yes. (127.) Read what he said? "I am glad to say this that if jou always meet like this we shall get something. Time to beg is waning away and it is now time to speak the truth. In fact, I have confidence in our women when they want anything they fight for but they should not leave their men behind." The next speaker? Manana. He also spoke previously? Yes. "Now I am to deal with passes, to our women. This has been going on for some time. Now the Government or the police comes to you and ask about your time in any town such as Durban etcetera and when you go to the pass office you are told to leave the town after few days and if you have no money the Government will give you a ticket to go home. But this will be done after you have served in gaol to cover the expense." The next speaker? G. Mei. He also spoke previously? Yes. "This is a very serious subject. I'll tell of a recent incident. A son of a teacher in Pretoria was given a bursary to go to America for study but when he went to the authorities to get a passport he was refused becasue he did not carry a pass. We should regard passes for women as a very serious matter. How can a woman be equalised to a man." The next speaker? Manana. Omit what he said. (Notes handed in G.461.) FURTHER EXAMINATION BY P.P.: (26/10/55.) Did you make notes in respect of a meeting held on 26th October, 1955? Yes, I did. Did you make your notes at the meeting? Yes. You have them now before you? Yes, I have. What meeting was it? African National Congress Womens

39 League. Where was it held? Durban, Do you know at which location? No, I have not written that down. What time did the meeting commence? a.m. Until when? 1.35 p.m. How many persons attended the meeting? 12 males and 400 women. Who was the chairlady? Mrs. Shandu. Did she address the meeting? Yes. Will you read what she said? The chairlady opened the meeting and said: "The object of this meeting is a sad one, so we decided to call this meeting so that you must all hear for yourselves. Today the Government wants us to carry passes, but the first one will be called privilege pass, then another one for identity. So I think this touches our hearts and does not agree with we women. This is your chance to voice out your views." Dlamini was the next speaker c "This is a very serious matter which demand our serious reaction. ITow we are to carry dom pass, which I think you all do not like. Few weeks back we had a meeting with the local authorities, but they denied that women will carry passes, but only a privilege pass. Eut even then we do not want that, because it will eventually lead to another pass." Who was the next speaker?-- Unknown native female. Omit her speech? The next was Mrs. Ngcobo. "I say I will not carry any pass, so I suggest that we all refuse to carry it." The next speaker? Unknown native female 0 Omit the speech. And then? Noyimtombi Dlamini. She spoke previously? Yes. Read what she said? stand to ask you whether you agree to carrying of passes?" Answer, No, unanimously.

40 And the next speaker? Victoria Goba. Omit what she said?- Rodah Nkwayama, was the next speaker. Who spoke after her? Flora Mdlalose. Omit what she said. Omit her speech, the next? H. Ostrich. Read what she said? "I stand to say do you like to carry dom pass." Unanimously, 'No.' Then said: "We are in a hard time. Few weeks we met one official of the local Government who tried to explain to us that this privilege pass is a good thing because you will more privileged than others, but I dare say this is only a plan by the two Governments to oppress us. How are we to carry this dom pass? What purpose does it serve. I say it means nothing but slavery. Now, the main thing that we must do is to collect money in order to defend ourselves from such an Act. Now the Committee will meet and decide how this money will be kept and used." The next speaker?-- Dorothy Nyembe. Is she one of the Accused? Yes. "To all daughters of Africa, I am grateful to be present to tell you this that these two Governments are one in this plan of passes for women. People from the age of 16 upwards everyone will have to carry passes. There is a feeble excuse that there will be a privileg pass which will help the resident. I say that is not true. This pass means deportation to you and it will start from women workers in towns. All the Europeans will ask for this pass and if you have no such there would be work for you. I say we would rather die than to carry it. What is more, we will be victims of the police force who will be authorised to demand such and failing to produce you will have to comply with his desires." The next speaker? Mrs. E. Mhlakwane. Omit her speech. The next speaker? Emely Kamabeng. Omit her speech. The next speaker? Florence Mkize.

41 What did she say? "Now I am convinced that the majority of you present here do not like passes. Therefore I appeal to you to join our Congress. The African National Congress, not the Bantu National Congress. I therefore advise you not to follow the latter Congress.'.' Next speaker? A. Nene. "I am thankful for the opportunity given me in this meeting, but I stand to say we of the A.N.C. are opposed to anything that is a paper or pass or any kind for both men and women. In fact, there will be no difference between your passes and ours. They say all races will carry same, but since we men carried the reference book, I have seen no Europeans, Coloured or Indians being demanded by police for any reference book. So That is why I say there will be a difference with regard to privilege pass. I say once a woman is married I see no need for having a privilege pass. I therefore greatly sympathise vith you. Moreoever this system is an indirect way for deporting your sons back to farms only. They know that you have no homes in farms but in towns, so they want to provide farmers with cheap labour." Who was the next speaker? P. Mngadi. Omit the speech. Was that the last speaker? Yes. (Notes handed in G.462.) FURTHER EXAMINATION BY P.P.; (16/11/55.) Did you make notes of a meeting held on 16th November, 1955? I did. Did you make your notes at the meeting? Yes. You have your notes now before you?-- Yes. What meeting was it? African National Congress Women's League. Where was it held? In Durban, but I did not specify where. What time did the meeting commence? a.m. Until when? p.m. How many persons attended the meeting? 50 women and

42 and 8 men. Who was the chairlady? E.L. Nala. Who was the first speaker? Dorothy Nyembe. Is she one of the Accused? Yes. (144.) Will you read what she said? "With regard to passes for women I do not think that it is necessary for any woman to carry such. The object of this pass is to lower us to nothing. Therefore I think it is wise that we should all go out and other women that they must not accept any pass. Our duty must be to discuss passes everyday until all women realise the danger. This pass brings shame to any woman. Our men accepted reference books as a good thing, but today they are crying because they can not go where they like. The corporation call this pass a privilege pass. This is a polite name for a reference book. What is more, police will take advantage over us, should any find you without a pass. This is why I say this pass is dangerous to us who must say with one voice that we don't want passes." The next speaker? E.L. Nala. Omit the speech?-- Bertha Mkize was the next speaker. Is she one of the Accused? Yes.(136.) Do you know what position she held in the African National Congress.? She was a member of the executive in Natal. She was an organiser. Read what she said? "Am glad to be amongst you this morning. I am sure you all don't want passes. Some people say why we object to passes now. These are my reasons, (l) If jou possess a pass you are knocking at the gaol door. I don't see the difference between one with a pass and one with no pass because they both suffer arrests by police. The other day we were called to hear Mr. Bouqin who said the privilege pass is good for many reasons, free brewing of beer, free medical attention, etc., but I say this is only a bluff but it will mean something else. So I think it wise that we should invite

43 Mr. Bourqin to tell us what is the decision. These passes mean deportation to most African women from towns. I appeal to you to tell all other women that on the 23rd instant we will have a big meeting at the beerhall, Cato Manor, where we shall give our decision as to what we will do next and also to arrange about those going to the Conference in Bloemfontein, where all women of the Union will meet to make their final decision. I think we should also try to free our men from carrying passes. Remember, we will choose two delegates with regard to carrying passes for women." Who was the next speaker? Zungu. Read? "I have nothing much to say in this meeting. I think women have acted like men, and men are like women today- Now remember Bamabata's war against tax. We had a relief for some time although he foughtit out single-handed, but if all were united things would have not been like this today." The next speaker? Unknown native female. Omit the speech. Next speaker? P.E. Manana. Is he one of the Accused? Yes. (133.) Read what he said?-"chairlady» This problem of passes does not mean that we must get out of town completely, but to select you out one by one, the object of this is to make business out of us by the Government. The Government knows that it is a difficult thing to remove people all at one time. So it is best to take them out one by one and to get money out of us. If the Government wants to use influx control why don't he stop people from taking trains to towns. Here we are with no other homes than here. Where must we go to. I don't see why you should accept this pass because with the Government it is an offence to eat, to stand, to sleep, to walk to possess a pass. To Work is also an offence. So wfmt must we do. Therefore be determined to stand firm against this pass system. Why women carry passes because we men look after them?" A - til

44 The next speaker? Amon Nene. Omit his speech and the next speaker? E.L. Nala, the chairlady. Asked the meeting whether they are in favour of passes or not, and it was unanimously objected. The next speaker? P. Manana. Is that the same person who spoke previously? Yes. Read what he said? "The Bantu Education introduced hy the Government meant our grave and the forms brought in by chil dren from schools meant voting for Dr. Verwoerd. In my form I scratched the word Bantu and put Universal Education, now I am waiting for the results from the school principal, so I ask you to do likewise and do not accept this kind of education. We want universal education." Who was the next speaker? Guster Euzwayo. "Education is a pillar of the nation but in this country we blacks are deprived of the real education and given education which is infer ior, so to serve the white people. A long time back education was the same for all, but European to avoid competition decided to give us an inferior one. This makt-s us to loose confidence in the Europeans. Now you can see by this. We are not allowed to brew beer as we like, because they want to run beer business themselves. The native education is gone and replaced by Bantu Education, which after ten years our nation will be finished. There is high delinquency amongst our children, so how much it will be with the B a ntu Education. Therefore we must find a plan. I think we must try to teach our children at home that will be no crime, we must stand up and protest against this education and see the native commissioner. Our men are hopeless, cannot fight this out without us. We are guilty if we overlook this. Therefore I hope we will stand up." Who was the next speaker? I.B. Matonsi. Omit the speech.? Henrietta Ostrich. Omit the speech? Luch Dlamini.

45 Omit her speech. Was she the last speaker? Yes. (Notes handed in G.463.) FURTHER EXAMINATION BY P.P.; (23/11/55.) Did you make notes of a meeting held on 23/11/55? I did. Did you make your notes at the meting?-- Yes. You have your notes before you? Yes. What meeting was it? African National Congress Women's League. Where was it held? Cato Manor, Durban. What time did the meeting commence? a.m. Until when? 2 p.m. How many persons attended the meeting? About 400 women and about 40 men. Who was the chairlady? Bertha Mkize. Is she one of the Accused? Yes. (136.) Who was the first speaker? Guster Kuzwayo. Read what he said? Openened the meeting and said; "Our main object is to discuss passes for women of which we are really opposed to have. Therefore we are here to make our final discussion as to what we must do from now." The next speaker? Bertha Mkize, the chairlady, said "I am sorry that we Africans always fail to keep time, but nevertheless we shall go on with our meeting. Here we are to discuss passes for women. As I have made to understand that we will have to carry two passes, one for the local government and one for the Central Government." Who was the next speaker? Gertrude Kweyama. Omit the speech. The next speaker? Bertha Mkize, the chairlady, said "G. Kweyama said something which is very great that there will be a lot of trouble betweeen women and the police. Another thing is this, that we must cling to our old custom."

46 Who was the next speaker? Unknown native female. "I have nothing more to say in this affair, but I must say this that we all know now that passes are a danger to us, therefore we must be all determined to refuse them or we die. Those who are in favour of such passes will soon know the lesson to carry a pass is just like putting a snake in your pocket." The next speaker? Bertha Mkize, the chairlady. Omit the speech?-- The next speaker was Stole, a native female. Omit the speech. The next one? Dorothy Nyembe. Is she one of the Accused? Yes. (144.) "I stand here to make a remark that the reason why there are no much women here today is because when we distribute our circulars most women do not read them and yet they don't want passes. The day will come when these passes will be very active against them. This meeting has been called for all women to make a great stand against passes." Who was the next speaker? Bertha Mkize, the chairlady. "I appeal to you to love your nation and learn to form a strong unity amongst you. I must tell this, most women domestic servants do no, like passes, but none of them are here. The reason being this, that at this time they are all very busy. It would have been better if this meeting was called to start at 2.30 p.m. to suit them." And who was the next speaker? Henrietta Ostrich. Omit the speech. The next speaker? Bertha Mkize, the chairlady. Omit the speech? Lucy Dlamini, the next speaker. "I hope you have understood everything now. In fact it is not to say we oppose passes because we are mad or drunk, but it is because this pass system is very unbecoming to us. I first had a pass in 1916 and it lot of your time giving evil instances of that pass, to be short, passes will encourage white women

47 to override us and it means oppression and gaol at the same time I therefore still warn you not to accept passes at any cost put your fears away. There must be no step back in this struggle if passes are to go." Who was the next speaker?-- Dabulamanzi Kuzwayo. Omit the speech.? Bertha Mkize, the chairlady next. Omit the speech. The next speaker? Ruth Shabane. "Now we have nothing much to say about local passes. Even with Dr. Verwoerd's pass, for I know we will not carry passes. It has been said that even the European women will carry passes That is not true. I say today we have no men or women in the eyes of Europeans, why? Therefore it is for us all to make him realise that there are still African women. We will not carry passes even if Mrs. Malan or Madam Jansen jarry them. This is our country. Why should we carry passes? We shall even march to Pretoria for that matter, but now we must make resolutions. " Who was the next speaker? P. Manana. Is he one of the Accused? Yes. (133.) Read what he said? "I shall speak on one thing which is a very sad thing against you. There is Section 29 which is provided for a person running business without a licence. Then there is Section 14. If unemployed you will be deported. Here in this area of Gato Manor we do little work or brew beer in order to make ends meet, but on top of that we are being arrested daily. The Government has said that we must leave towns. Now that we do not move passes are introduced. I therefore say do not accept passes, even if you seek domestic work. If any mistress, there is work, but have a pass you must say No, keep your work. These passes will cause a lot of miseries. You will be criminals etc., and your passes will be endorsed and your character exposed according to mistresses wish. So do not accept to carry passes."

48 Who was the next speaker? A. Nene. Omit the speech. Who spoke next? Guster Kuzwayo. Omit the speech. The next speaker? Bertha Mkize. Read :? She announced that on the 29/11/55 all women must meet at the City Hall Durban at 1 p.m. Was that the end of the meeting? Yes. (Notes handed in G.464.) FURTHER EXAMINATION BY P.P.: (15/2/56. ) Did you make notes at a meeting held on 15/2/56? Yes You have the notes now "before you? Yes. What meeting was it? African National Congress Women's League, Dabulamanzi Branch, Durban, Y/hat time did the meeting commence? 12.5 p.m. Until when? 2 p.m. How many persons attended the meeting? 4 men and 14 women. Who was the chairlady? Lucy Dhlamini. Who was the first speaker? Florence Mkize. Read what she said? Acted as speaker and said; "I know you have sacrificed your time to attend this meeting, where we are to deal with passes for women, of which I believe we all do not want but now I am much disappointed because we are very few, yet I say let us keep it up and don't despair at all. We still say we do not want passes. I believe even policemen themselves do not want their wives to carry passes or any demand to demand pass from his wife. anything that is called a pass for women." We do not want The next speaker? Luch Dlamini. Omit the speech? Dorothy Nyembe was the next speaker Is she one of the Accused? Yes. (144.) "I am glad to be present in this meeting just to ask for an excuse for some of our members who failed to attend because of their work With regard to this subject, I think you all know that we do not like passes. This has been proved by the dom pass. Our

49 men are carrying. They are being chased all over the country. Here we have educated people, nurses, teachers, preachers, but these people have never made an attempt to help in this struggle and yet it is theirs. I say any person who accepts passes will eventually be deported from this city, but those who refuse passes will remain in the city. With regard to young women I say they have no homes at all. No work for them in farms so what must they do. They are compelled by hunger to be in towns in order that they live. Now if these passes are introduced where will they go to. I appeal to you to talk passes to your friends and your neighbours that we do not want passes. On the 18/2/56 we will have a meeting at they.m.c.a," Who was the next speaker? Zulu. Omit the speech? Amon Nene was the next speaker. Read? "We hav^ spoken about passes often and again, but now I would like to tell you this, that if you want to fight passes, you will have to starve, jailed and finally be shot dead then you shall get your freedom. We of the African National Congress want freedom for all. We are tired of begging this Government who can't hear any word from us. So best is to join the Congress and form one strong body to free ourselves from such slavery. I say to you women, fight these passes out until you final success. Forget ahout going to any church, for churches are your graves. Churches should preach Congress and our freedom," The next speaker? Kumalo, a native male. Read? "I would like to touch on this pass affair. Yes, it is a sad matter because these passes need money. You cannot have it free. Where will you get that money from. I feel it is better to die than to carry such passes. Yes, I agree with one who said Churches are valueless. It is true. I see no use and instead it wants money from you and me. It is also true that we Africans are dead alive so what is the

50 use being afraid to die." Who was the next speaker? Unknown native female. Were there a few more speakers? Yes. (Notes handed in G.465.) FURTHER EXAMINATION BY P.P.; (18/2/56) Did you also make notes in respect of a meeting held on the 18th February, 1956?-- I did. Did you make yournotes at the meeting, and you have them before you? Yes. '/That meeting was it? African National Congress. Where was it held?-- Y.M.C.A., Beatrice Street, Durban. When did the meeting commcnce? 2.20 p.m. Until when? 5.15 p.m. How many persons attended the meeting? 42 males and 53 females. Who was the chairman?-- Bertha Mkize. Is she one of the Accused? Yes. (136.) Did she address the meeting? Yes, she opened the meeting. What did she sa? Opened the meeting and said: "I am glad that you have all attended this meeting early. This meeting is a new Thing called the African National Congress Women's Association. This association will deal with all matters affecting the Zulu nation, but first of all office bearers will be elected. Now I shall call upon the secretary to tell you the object of this association." Who was the next speaker? Guster Kuzwayo. Read what was said? "It has been felt that the African National Congress was carrying a lot of work so it has been decided to form an auxiliary movement such as this This association is in existence in Johannesburg, Orange Free State and other places. You must remember that people said

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