MS RUTH ABSALOM (called) Examined by MR DINGEMANS

Transcription

1 Tuesday September , am: Ruth Absalom, Dr Malcolm Warner, Louise Holmes, Paul Chapman, PC Andrew Franklin, PC Martyn Sawyer, Sergeant Geoffrey Webb MS RUTH ABSALOM (called) Examined by MR DINGEMANS LORD HUTTON: Good morning ladies and gentlemen. Mr Dingemans, I understand Ms Absalom is going to give evidence on the video link. Good morning Ms Absalom. Thank you very much for agreeing to give evidence to this Inquiry. I will ask Mr Dingemans, the senior counsel, to take you through your evidence. MR DINGEMANS: Ms Absalom, can you hear me? Q. Where are you at the moment? A. Where am I? Sorry. Q. You are in Oxford, are you? What village do you live in? A. Southmoor. Q. Did you know Dr Kelly? Q. How long had you known him for? A. Well, from the time he came into the village, I suppose. I do not know how long that was, but a good many years - - several years. Q. What were you doing on 17th July? Do you remember the 17th July? A. Is that the day I met David? Q. Yes. A. Just walking the dog. Q. And how far is your house from Dr Kelly's house? A. The width of a road, a main road. I do not know how many yards. Q. How many minutes walk? A. A couple. Q. A couple of minutes walk. Q. On 17th July, what time did you walk your dog? A. Well, I usually go about 3 but I went earlier that day, I suppose about quarter past 2. Q. Quarter past 2? Q. Did you see anyone while you were walking the dog? A. Not until I met Dr Kelly. Q. And when did you meet Dr Kelly? What time was that? A. Round about 3 o'clock. I could not tell you for sure, I did not bother to look at my watch but I was taking the dog for a walk and -- Q. Where did you meet him? A. The top of Harris's Lane, which is in Longworth, the next village. It is about -- roughly about a mile from my home. Q. How far from his home is that? A. Well, he is only a matter of yards across the road from me. Q. So about just under a mile from his home; is that right? Q. How was he dressed? A. Normally. I did not take that much notice. Q. Do you remember whether he was wearing a jacket or...? A. Well, he had obviously got a jacket on but whether it was a suit or an odd jacket and odd trousers I have no idea. We just stopped, said hello, had a chat about nothing in particular --

2 Q. What did you say to him? A. He said, "Hello Ruth" and I said, "Oh hello David, how are things?" He said, "Not too bad". We stood there for a few minutes then Buster, my dog, was pulling on the lead, he wanted to get going. I said, "I will have to go, David". He said, "See you again then, Ruth" and that was it, we parted. Q. How did he seem to you? A. Just his normal self, no different to any other time when I have met him. Q. Did you see whether he was carrying anything? A. No, I do not think he was. Q. And do you remember how long you spoke to him for? A. Five minutes at the most. Q. And did you see what direction he left in? A. Well, he was going for his walk. I suppose he went to my right, along the road towards Kingston Bagpuize I suppose in the end, if he had gone round that way, but obviously he was going down to the fields down the road or down to the fields down the back. Q. Was that the last time you saw Dr Kelly? Q. And is there anything else surrounding the circumstances of Dr Kelly's death that you can help his Lordship with? A. None whatsoever. I am sorry, I wish I could, but that is all I can tell you. I met him at the top of the road there and we had a few minutes' chat and then Buster was pulling his lead and David said, well, he said, "I must get going" and that was it. We parted and he said, "Cheerio Ruth", I said "Bye David". That was it. LORD HUTTON: Thanks very much indeed for giving your evidence. That is very helpful. A. All right. LORD HUTTON: Now would you like me to rise? MR DINGEMANS: Just for a few minutes, my Lord am: Short Break am: DR MALCOLM WARNER (called) Examined by MR KNOX LORD HUTTON: Yes Mr Knox. MR KNOX: Dr Warner, can you tell the Inquiry your full name? A. I am Dr Malcolm Warner. Q. Your occupation? A. I am a family doctor. Q. And I understand that Dr Kelly was a patient of yours. A. That is right. Q. For how long had he been your patient? A. For 25 years. Q. Were you aware of Dr Kelly having any other doctor in that period? A. I should imagine that as part of the Civil Service he had medicals within the Civil Service, yes. Q. Apart from that? A. That is right, yes. Q. In that time, as far as you are aware did Dr Kelly ever come into you showing signs of depression? Q. When did you last have to prescribe medication to Dr Kelly? A. It was many years ago; and I have not seen him as a patient for four years. Q. I think your notes suggest 1994 was when you last prescribed medication. A. Right. Q. Did you ever have to prescribe Coproxamol to Dr Kelly? Q. When was the last time you yourself saw Dr Kelly? A

3 Q. Was that for anything serious? A. A minor complaint. Q. Were you aware of any serious condition from which Dr Kelly suffered? Q. We know that an MoD health check was done on 8th July. This I understand was sent to you; is that right? A. That is right. Q. Did it say anything significant? Q. Are you aware of anything else which might be of significance which may have contributed to Dr Kelly's death? Q. Is there anything else you would like to tell this Inquiry? A. I do not think so, no. LORD HUTTON: Very well. Thank you very much indeed, Dr Warner. MR KNOX: My Lord, the next witness is Ms Holmes, please. LORD HUTTON: Yes. Thank you. MS LOUISE HOLMES (called) Examined by MR KNOX Q. Ms Holmes, could you tell the Inquiry your full name? A. It is Louise Holmes. Q. And your occupation? A. I am a hearing dog trainer. Q. Sorry? A. I am a hearing dog trainer. Q. For how long have you done that? A. The past two years. Q. And who are you employed by to do that job? A. I am employed by the charity Hearing Dogs for Deaf People. Q. How much experience do you have of foot searches for missing persons? A. I have been a member of my local search and rescue team for nearly two years now. Q. On Friday 18th July did you go to Abingdon police station? A. I did, yes. Q. At what sort of time did you go? A. I arrived there around quarter past/half past 7. Q. When you got there, what were you told? A. I was given a briefing, the name of the person that we were looking for, a description of what he was wearing when he was last seen and I was given an area to go and search. Q. And who gave you this briefing? A. It was done by a police officer and SEBEVs Control manager, Neil Knight. Q. Were you given a photograph of the person you were looking for? A. Yes, we were given a photograph and an A4 piece of paper with the name and a description of the missing person on it. Q. Were you told anything about the person you were looking for, in particular? A. Nothing other than what we were told. We were not given any other details. It was made -- it was mentioned it would probably become clearer during the day that it was somebody who was fairly important, but other than that we were not -- I had no idea of who he was. Q. And you were given the name, Dr Kelly; is that right? Q. And were you in fact aware of Dr Kelly, who he was, before this or had you read about it in the press? A. Not until after the search when somebody said: who is this guy? And then I went: oh yes. Q. Who was assisting you when you went on this search? A. I had Paul Chapman with me and then my search dog, because I was out searching with my dog.

4 Q. Your search dog was called Brock, I understand? A. Brock, yes. Q. What sort of a dog was he? A. He is a border collie crossed with an Australian shepherd. Q. You were at the police station initially, then where do you drive to? A. We drove to the start of our search area, which was at the bottom of Common Lane in Longworth. Q. That is where you had been told to go by the police initially? Q. You parked and got out of the car? A. We parked the car at the bottom of the search area and then started our search from where we had parked. Q. About what time did you arrive at the search area? A. It was about 8 o'clock. Q. And what type of search was it that you were going to do? Could you describe the method you were going to have to adopt for this search? A. Well, I was working with the search dog, so it was a search with the dog and we did it purely as an air scent exercise, so the dog is trained to pick up on particles of human scent and then follow them to their source. Q. Who was on this search? A. Me, the dog and Paul. Q. No-one else had joined you? Q. And where did you initially go, after you got out of the car? Can you remember? A. We walked up the track that runs north, I am told, on my map of Common Lane up towards the River Thames. Q. Can you describe, generally, how the search went initially? Where did you go? A. We were given the track to search north up to the River Thames as our boundary and the area of wood to the left of the track. So we did the bottom half of the track, the south boundary of the woods before we were forced to turn back because of a bashed wire fence. So we then searched through the bottom half of the woods which the fence ran all the way through. We then came back out on to the track, continued up the track to the -- to where our boundary was, came back down the track and did the north perimeter of the wood, and then went into the wood from the north. Q. Did you at any point go along the River Thames? A. We went up to where we -- where our boundary of our search area was on the Thames and spoke to some people there who were just moored on a boat on the Thames. Q. What did you say to them? A. Well, Brock had found them because he obviously is just trained to pick up on human scent, so he went off and indicated on them and so I had a game with him as a reward. They just said: what are you doing? We said we were assisting the police in the search for a missing male person and if they saw anything to contact the police. Q. Did they say they already had seen anything? A. They said they had seen the helicopter up the previous night but they had not seen anybody or anything other than that. Q. Did you eventually manage to get into the wooded area? Q. Can you remember roughly what point that was? Was that from the north or the south? A. We did the north boundary of the wood. The wind was blowing south to north and Brock was scenting in towards the woods. So we came around and came in from the east side of the wood. Q. Then are you still with Mr Chapman at that point? A. Yes, Paul was with me. Q. What happened once you got into the wood? A. We went into the woods a little way and Brock started to pick up -- he gets quite excited when he gets on to something. And he went off at a quicker pace so I quickened to try to keep up with him, and I just carried on following him and letting him work the area and followed on until he went so that he was nearly almost completely out of my vision, but I could see his tail wagging and he went into the bottom of a tree and then came running back

5 at me barking to indicate that he had found something. Q. How far into the wood, roughly, was this from the point that you had actually mentioned to get in, a mile or less than that? A. No, probably only about 200 metres. Q. Before Brock had found this person, had you noticed anything unusual in the woods? Was there anything in particular you had spotted? Q. Had Brock identified anything before that? A. Nothing, no. Q. When Brock comes running back towards you, what do you then do? A. He is trained that when he comes back when he has found something he will come back and bark at me, and then I just say: show me. He is trained he will turn round and go back and lead me straight back into what it is that he has found. But he came back and he was barking, so I just said: good boy, where is it? He just sort of laid down and looked at me, at which point I thought: oh okay, he has found something but there is something obviously not quite the same as a normal search or a normal training exercise. So I just went from the direction of which he had come until I got first visual on the body. Q. So in other words you walked ahead in that case? Q. Presumably Brock followed along afterwards? A. He did not actually, he stayed sitting where he was. Q. What did you see? A. I could see a body slumped against the bottom of a tree, so I turned around and shouted to Paul to ring Control and tell them that we had found something and then went closer to just see whether there was any first aid that I needed to administer. Q. And how close up to the body did you go? A. Within sort of a few feet of the body. Q. And did you notice anything about the position of the body? A. He was at the base of the tree with almost his head and his shoulders just slumped back against the tree. Q. And what about his legs and arms? Where were they? A. His legs were straight in front of him. His right arm was to the side of him. His left arm had a lot of blood on it and was bent back in a funny position. Q. Did you see any blood anywhere else? A. Just on the left arm and the left side. Q. Could you tell whether or not this was the person you had been asked to look for? A. Yes, the person matched the description that we had been given. Q. And could you tell whether he was alive or dead? A. As far as I -- I was happy in my own mind that he was dead and that there was nothing that I could do to help him. Q. What about Mr Chapman, he was obviously with you at this point, I take it? A. He was further back than I was. Q. He was further back when you first saw the body? A. Yes, and he stayed there to ring Control while I went to check whether there was... Q. How long did you spend looking at the body before you went back? A. Probably only a couple of minutes, if even that. Just enough to check for any signs of life, make myself happy that there was none and that there was nothing I could do; and then I went to go and reward my dog for his find. Q. I take it you did not actually go up to the body itself and feel the pulse? A. I did not touch it, no. Q. And when you went back to Mr Chapman, which path did you take? A. I walked as best as I could back out the path I walked in. Q. I take it from that there was a specific path you had walked in; was it actually a track? A. No, there were no tracks in the wooded area we were searching, no definite tracks anyway.

6 Q. Were there any tracks, as it were, around the wooded area you were able to see, where the body was, or had the person obviously walked in through the woods? A. Not that I remember seeing, but... Q. When you got back to Mr Chapman, what happened next? A. Paul had tried to ring Control but had been unable to get to them on the number we had for Control so we decided to ring through to ask to speak to Abingdon off a 999 call. So Paul rang the 999 and said we had some information relating to that search, and somebody from Abingdon rang us back and we arranged to walk back to the car to meet the police officer to take them and show them where the body was. Q. When you say someone from Abingdon, would that be Abingdon hospital? A. Abingdon police station. Q. And what did you then do? A. We walked back towards the car. On the way to the car we met three police officers and Paul took them back to show them where the body was, and I went back to the car. Q. Did you meet the police officers in the woods or after you got out of the woods? A. No, on the track, just between the woods and the car. Q. What did you tell the police officers? A. They identified to us who they were. We said who we were and we were involved in the search and we had found the body, and they went with Paul to see. Q. So in other words, Paul Chapman goes back with the police to show them where the body is? Q. What did you do? A. I went back to the car to sort the dog out and then when I got to the car further police officers and personnel came up to the car to take over, take over the scene. Q. Did you then go back to the scene at all? Q. So you presumably drove back? A. Yes, I was around about my car and car area for a while; and then I was taken back to Abingdon police station to give a statement. Q. Did you have to wear any special clothes or special shoes or anything? A. I just wore my normal walking shoes, trousers. Q. Did you hand in any of your clothes or shoes? A. A print was taken of my shoes but they did not retain my shoes, they just took a copy of the soles. Q. The print was taken by the police, I take it? Q. Is there anything else you would like to tell this Inquiry about the circumstances of Dr Kelly's death or indeed the circumstances in which you found his body? A. No, I do not think so. LORD HUTTON: Thank you very much indeed, Ms Holmes. Thank you. Mr Dingemans, I understand that Mr Chapman is going to give evidence. Would he like to give evidence from where he is sitting? MR DINGEMANS: I think Mr Chapman wants to go into the witness box, my Lord, but he has broken his leg so it will take a bit of time to get there. LORD HUTTON: Very well, I will just rise am: Short Break am: MR PAUL CHAPMAN (called) Examined by MR DINGEMANS. LORD HUTTON: Yes. MR DINGEMANS: Can you tell his Lordship your full name. A. Paul Philip Sam Chapman. Q. What is your occupation? A. I work for Prudential in Reading.

7 Q. Do you take part in any other voluntary activities? A. Yes, I am a member of the Scouts Association and a search controller and team leader for SEBEV Search and Rescue. Q. We can see you have a broken leg; did that have anything to do with what you are about to give evidence about? A. No, none whatsoever. I dislocated my knee falling down some stairs. Q. Were you called to assist in the search for Dr Kelly? A. I was. Q. When did you get that call? A. I got an initial page soon after 5 o'clock on the 18th. Q. In the morning or evening? A. In the morning. And then a further text message to indicate we had a call out. Q. What did you do as a result of those messages? A. I replied to the text message to say I was available for the search and could attend at any time that day. Q. What did you do? Did you attend anywhere? Once the call out went live I got my kit together and attended Abingdon police station, where the RV point was. Q. What does your kit consist of? A. Carried in there is standard walking equipment, walking boots, waterproofs, torch and an initial supply of food and water for 24 hours. Q. Have you received training for these tasks? Q. What form does the training take? A. It is a weekend course called a basic search technicians course run by SEBEVs, which is one of the leading training establishments in the country for search and rescue, one of only three. Then ongoing training on a weekly basis through the group. Q. So where did you go for your briefing? A. Abingdon police station. Q. How many other people were at the briefing? A. There were a couple of police officers, my search manager, Neil Knight and Louise Holmes. Q. Who gave the briefing itself? A. The search manager, Neil Knight gave me details of our search. Q. What were you told? A. I was told the missing person's name, we were given a photo of him, description of what he was wearing. Q. The name you were given? A. David Kelly. Q. What were you told he was wearing? A. As far as I remember it was a jacket, a shirt and trousers. I cannot remember the -- the colours were written on the sheet, the descriptions. Q. After the briefing, where did you go? A. We were tasked initially with a search area of Harrowdown Hill and the pathway running alongside it to the river. Q. Who were you searching with? A. I was searching with Lou Holmes and her dog Brock. Q. How long did it take to get from Abingdon to the search area? A. 10 or 15 minutes. Q. You drove? A. No, Lou drove. Q. Where did you park up? A. At the southern end of the path of our search area, just north of Longworth. Q. When you arrived was anyone else in the area? Q. Passed any cars on the way?

8 A. A few in the village on the way. Q. Did you see any other search teams around? Q. Did you hear a helicopter or anything? A. No, there was no helicopter at all. Q. Where did you go on your search? A. Initial search was we progressed north up the path, Brock ahead of us searching and us searching, checking the ditches either side and the pathway, until we reached the southern perimeter of Harrowdown Hill wood. We then entered the field by the wood, did a search of the southern perimeter of the wood until we reached a barrier, the barbed wire fence halfway round the other side. Q. Did you climb over the fence? A. No, we decided not to. We decided to retrace our steps round the wood back to the main path so we knew on the map where we were and what areas we had covered. Q. While you were searching up to the barrier, had you seen anyone at this stage? Q. Or heard anything? A. No, nothing at all. Q. You hit the barrier then retrace your steps. A. We retraced our steps and entered the southern side of the wood and had a look through the inside of the wood, where it was slightly more open. Q. Could you see anything? A. Could not see anything. There was the barbed wire fence running the whole way through the woods, so that formed our natural barrier within the wood. Q. How large was the wood? A. 50 to 100 metres across, roughly. Q. Did you walk into the wood? A. We did, yes. Q. Up to the barbed wire in the wood? A. Up to the barbed wire, yes. Q. Where was the dog at this stage? A. The dog was ranging from 5, 10, 15 metres ahead of us, running in and out of the bushes and the areas. We were just following that. There were no paths or anything so we were having to climb across trees and go round all the bushes and things. Q. Did you come across anything? A. Nothing in the southern area, no. Q. Having searched the southern area of the wood, what did you do then? A. We returned to the main path, consulted with each other, looked at the map and decided we would do the rest of the pathway down to the river and get that eliminated, and then come back and do the rest of the wood. Q. Did you do the rest of the pathway down to the river? A. Yes, we walked all the way down the pathway, which came out to a gate just by the River Thames. Q. Did you see anyone on that search? A. Not until we reached the river and we met the people on the boat. Q. How many people were on the boat? A. Either three or four, I cannot remember. Q. Did you speak to them? A. Yes, we did. Q. What did you say to them? A. They enquired what we were doing. We explained a search team assisting the police, looking for a missing person, and gave them a rough description of his age and said if they saw anything could they contact the police. Q. Had they seen anything? A. They had heard the helicopter and seen some police officers at some point previously.

9 Q. Right. What, police officers on an earlier part of the search? Q. But they had not seen Dr Kelly at all? Q. After you had gone down to the river, spoken to them, where do you go next? A. We retraced our steps back up the pathway until we reached the wood, came off the pathway and did the northern perimeter of the wood until we came to the other side of the barbed wire fence. Q. You went back into the wood itself? A. Initially no, we did the outside of the wood. Q. Looking into the wood? A. Looking into the wood. But it was quite dense undergrowth so a lot of places you could not actually get in through the perimeter there, but we were checking the wood. Q. When you could get through a gap did you get into the wood itself? A. We did not enter the wood there until we returned back to the main path. Q. Where was the dog at this stage? A. The dog was running around, like I say, just ahead of us. We were keeping back so we do not affect its scent and smell. Q. How long did it take to do the northern part of the wood? A. A guess, about 10 or 15 minutes. Q. Did anything happen while you were doing the northern part of the wood? A. Nothing. Did not find anything. There were no indications from the dog either. Q. Where do you go after that? A. Once we reached the barbed wire fence we retraced our steps to the main path, again walking down the side of the wood where it is much more open. We then entered the wood after another 10 or 15 metres, and walked into the wood from there. Q. What part of the wood are you now looking at? A. We are in the northern sector of the wood. Q. Right. And does anything happen here? A. After about five minutes the dog indicates a find and Louise -- Q. Where were you? Were you on the outside of the wood? A. I was in the wood about five metres behind Louise. Q. What happened to the dog? A. The dog was ahead, I could hardly see the dog at that point. I was just following up the hill and Louise then said - - indicated -- said he had found something and she went forward to investigate, whereas I waited there. Q. So you did not move at this stage? A. No, I waited there, as we are trained to do in case it is a scenes of crime or anything, so we do not contaminate it. Q. To avoid trampling down? A. Yes, in case there is evidence or anything like that. Q. Louise went up and looked. She came back? A. She came back towards me. Q. What did she say? A. Yes, she told me we had found the missing person and at that point I tried to contact our Control to let them know. Q. Did you get through to Control? A. We did not on the mobiles, no, because the mobiles were all to answerphone. Q. So how did you contact anyone? A. I then rang 999 and asked to be put through to Abingdon police station. They could not transfer me so I asked them to get someone at Abingdon police station to call me urgently. Q. On your mobile? A. On my mobile, yes. Q. Did they call back?

10 A. They called back within a couple of minutes, yes. Q. Do you remember who you spoke to? A. I do not. He just said it was a sergeant at Abingdon police station. Q. What did you report to him? A. I reported who I was, a member of the search team, and we had found the missing person, could they please then speak to the search manager and the search police officers there and get them to give me a ring. Q. Did they? A. Yes, they did. They called me back straight after that. Q. What arrangements did you make? A. At that point we were walking back down the path towards the car and they said: keep going there and we will send some police officers out to meet you there, back at your car, Louise's car. Q. Were you standing still in the wood all this time? A. Initially, yes, but then we began walking out of the wood back to the path because we realised that we would have to go and meet the officers, and it was about a 10 minute walk back to the car down the path so we thought it is easiest to get going. Q. Did you see what Brock the dog had found? Q. And what was that? A. The body of a gentleman sitting up against a tree. Q. And can you recall what he was wearing? A. All I could see from the distance I got was he was wearing a dark jacket and light coloured shirt. Q. And how close did you get to the body? A. I probably reached about 15 to 20 metres from it. Q. Could you see anything at all? A. He was sitting with his back up against a tree and there was an obvious injury to his left arm. Q. An obvious injury to his left arm. What was that injury? A. In as far as it was all covered in blood. Q. Right. After you had seen that, where did you go next? A. We retraced our steps back down to the main path and then walked back south along the path to where the car was parked. Q. Did the police attend? A. Yes, they did. Q. And did you help them when they had arrived? As we were going down the path we met three police officers coming the other way that were from CID. We identified ourselves to them. They were not actually aware that (a) the body had been found or we were out searching this area. They I think had just come out on their own initiative to look at the area. I informed them we had found the body and they asked me to take them back to indicate where it was. Q. So these were not the people you had arranged to meet, as it were? A. No, because this was only 2 or 3 minutes after I had made the phone call. Q. How did you know they were police officers? A. Because they showed me their Thames Valley Police identification. Q. Do you recall their names? A. Only one of them was DC Coe. Q. Did you show them the body? We walked back up the hill with the three of them and then they decided as they got a bit closer to the edge of the wood that I needed only to take one of the officers in, so I took DC Coe in to show him where the body was. Q. What were you wearing at the time? A. I was wearing my standard search kit, walking boots, outdoor trousers, our uniform polo shirts. Q. Did you need to give anything to the police? A. All they did was take a copy of the soles of my boots. Q. Right. After that, what happened?

11 A. Once we had shown them where the body was, we returned to the car. More police officers had arrived there. We waited around a while until we were released from the scene, where we went back with one of the police officers to Abingdon police station where we made our statements. Q. You made your statement and then go off to work? A. It was mid afternoon by the time we had finished there. I actually had a day off as I was going away to cub camp for the weekend. Q. Do you know of anything else surrounding the circumstances of Dr Kelly's death that you can assist his Lordship with? A. No, I do not. LORD HUTTON: Thank you very much indeed, Mr Chapman. Just take your time, please, to leave and do not rush at all. Thank you very much. POLICE CONSTABLE DEAN ANDREW FRANKLIN (called) Examined by MR DINGEMANS Q. Could you tell his Lordship your full name? A. My name is Dean Andrew Franklin. Q. And your occupation? A. I am a police constable with the police support team, Thames Valley Police. Q. Where are you based? A. We are based at the Royal Lodge in Windsor Great Park. Q. Were you on duty on 18th July? A. I was called on duty from my home address. Q. What time did you get a call? A hours. Q. And do you live near Windsor then? A. I live in Windsor. Q. Where were you called to? A. To Abingdon police station. Q. How long did it take to get there? A. Just over an hour. Q. When you arrived, who else was there? A. I met with my sergeant, Paul Woods, who took us into a briefing; and there was several other officers there. Q. How many officers were there? A. I could not tell you exactly. Q. But roughly? A. 8 to 10. Q. You were given a briefing by your sergeant? Q. What was the nature of the briefing? A. The nature of the briefing was initially a missing person search, to look for Dr David Kelly. Q. You were given some details of Dr Kelly? A. Yes, we were given a photograph with his details on it, what he was supposed to be wearing, and then Sergeant Woods and I discussed the search parameters and whereabouts we would start the search. Q. And what was the nature of that discussion? A. With all missing person inquiries we look, initially, to beauty spots, areas that are frequented by the missing person, and that is where we would start our search. Q. Had you got any information about what areas he frequented then? A. I was passed that information by Sergeant Woods. Q. What were you told by Sergeant Woods? A. The search would begin at Harrowdown Hill, which was apparently an area frequented by Dr Kelly on his regular walking route. Q. And having had this discussion with Sergeant Woods, where do you go then?

12 A. We were actually at the police station. I was just deploying my team -- Q. How many are in your team? A. I was given a search team leader, which is PC Sawyer, and 6 other officers, when we received a call that a body had been found at Harrowdown Hill. Q. Do you know how many other people were out searching at this time? A. I believe it was only the two volunteers out searching at that time. The parameters for our search and the logistics of calling our teams in does take a bit of time. So PC Sawyer and I were going to be the first team out on the ground. Q. We have heard evidence about a helicopter out searching the night before. Had you heard about that? Q. After you get that information, where did you go? A. PC Sawyer and I attended Harrowdown Hill and went to the scene. We were unsure initially whereabouts we were going, but we passed Paul from the South East Berks Volunteers and he directed us to two uniformed police officers and DC Coe. Q. The South East Berks Volunteers, what are they? A. They are SEBEVs. South East Berks Volunteers. They are an organisation we use regularly for missing person searches. Q. To help? A. To help us. They are a highly professional and motivated organisation. Q. You mentioned DC Coe. Was he part of your search team? Q. What he was he doing? A. He was at the scene. I had no idea what he was doing there or why he was there. He was just at the scene when PC Sawyer and I arrived. Q. Who was in charge of the scene at this time? A. DC Coe was until I turned up and then I took charge of the scene. Q. Did you get taken into the wood? A. DC Coe took us into the woods, PC Sawyer and myself, to the area where the body was. Q. And what did you see there? A. We walked between 50 and 70 metres into the wood up a slight gradient, and in a clearing at the base of a tree was the body of a white male. Q. Do you recall what was being worn? A. I believe he had a blue jacket on, a white coloured shirt and blue denim jeans. Q. And what was his position? A. He was lying on his back with his right hand to his side and his left hand was sort of inverted with the palm facing down (Indicates), facing up on his back. Q. Did you see any signs of injury on the body? A. There was a fair amount of blood to the left wrist area and on the left hand, and a fair amount of blood sort of puddled around. Q. On the ground? A. On the ground, yes. Q. Did you see whether or not there was a watch or anything on the body? A. If I may refer to my notes? Q. Yes, of course. LORD HUTTON: Yes. A. The wrist watch was lying away from the body, next to a knife. The wrist watch was just to the left of the left arm, with the knife next to it, and also there was an open bottle of water at the scene. Q. An open bottle of water? A. Yes, the wrist watch was off the wrist. Q. What, mineral water? A. A bottle of, yes, mineral water, a plastic bottle.

13 Q. How large was that bottle, a big bottle or a small one? A. A small one. Q. And what did the knife look like? A. The blade was open. It was some sort of lock knife. I cannot be that precise. I believe it had a curved -- slight curve to the blade. The blade was maybe 3 to 4 inches long. Q. Was there anything on the blade? A. Blood. Q. Was there anything else beside the bottle of water, the blade and the wrist watch? Q. And did you form any opinion about whether or not there was a sign of life? A. We had two paramedics who were following closely behind us, but my initial thought was the body we had found was that of a dead man. Q. Did you recognise the body? A. I believed it was Dr David Kelly. Q. From the descriptions? A. From the descriptions and the photograph we had. Q. Having located the body, what did you do as a result of that? A. The paramedics came to the scene to pronounce life extinct, which they did. Q. Did you see them do that? A. Yes, we did. Q. When you first saw the body, were there any pads on the chest? A. No, the shirt was done up when we got there. My colleague -- if I may explain. We take photographs of these sort of scenes all the time as a matter of course because we knew the paramedics would be disturbing the clothing and possibly disturbing the scene. Q. You took the photographs? A. PC Sawyer. Q. Before the body was disturbed? Q. That showed the shirt buttoned up? Q. Copies of those photographs have been supplied to the Inquiry? A. I believe PC Sawyer supplied them, yes. Q. For fairly obvious reasons those are not being published. A. Absolutely, yes. Q. They show the shirt buttoned up, do they? A. The shirt was buttoned up. I believe PC Sawyer took photographs during and after the procedure the paramedics go through. Q. What did you see the paramedics do? A. The shirt was unbuttoned, they placed four sticky pads, I believe it is four, on to the body, the chest, and attached it to a medical machine -- sorry, I have no idea what it is. And they pronounced life extinct at hours that morning. LORD HUTTON: May I just ask you: how long were you at the scene before the paramedics arrived? A. Less than two minutes. LORD HUTTON: Less than two minutes. I see. Thank you. MR DINGEMANS: After the paramedics have declared formally life extinct, where did they go? A. We all left the scene. We left the wooded area to a natural break in the woods, a path which is where PC Sawyer and I went. I believe the two paramedics left the scene all together. I am not 100 per cent sure of at because PC Sawyer and I went back in. Q. You went back in? A. To establish what we call a common approach path and to mark it off where the area we had walked in. Q. What is a common approach path?

14 A. A common approach path would be, in this instance, a taped area. We taped it off either side so any person visiting the scene, the only place they would walk would be up the common approach path. Q. Why do you do that? A. Sterility of the scene and to preserve any evidence that may be either side. Q. And having set out this common approach path, what did you do? A. The common approach path was established and we then taped off the area around the body, again for the same reasons. We then left the scene and went back down to collect our vehicle -- we had walked about three quarters of a mile up to the scene -- to take our vehicle back up to await senior CID officers and scenes of crime. Q. So you drive your vehicle back up? Q. And do you see what happens when the senior officers arrive? A. We were asked by the senior scenes of crime officer to search the common approach path; PC Sawyer and myself were. Q. What does that involve? A. A full search would involve hands and knees going through every piece of undergrowth and twig. I stated at the time that perhaps that was not prudent because there were only two of us, so we did a check rather than a full search of a common approach path. This would be for any obvious dropped articles. Q. And was the other area searched? A. Which area, sir? Q. Which is not on the common approach path. A. Not initially. You mean either side of the common approach path? Q. Yes. Q. Do you know if that was ever searched? A. It was searched. At hours the same day I had a request from DCI Young to fingertip search the common approach path and either side. I decided as a police search adviser to do 10 metres either side of the common approach path at that time. Q. So did you do a fingertip search of the common approach path? A. At hours, yes. Not initially. The initial check was done by PC Sawyer and I. Q. That is the initial check? Q. Later on you are asked to do a fingertip search? A full search team come in to do that. Q. What do you wear when you do that type of search? A. We were dressed forensically, white paper suits, hoods up, masks, gloves, rubber gloves, and covering for our feet. Q. When you first went into the wood is that what you were wearing? A. No, we were dressed in summer search kit: black polo shirt, black trousers and our work boots. Q. What, your initial search was carried out in the summer dress, was it? A. In the summer search uniform. We had no forensic kit with us at the time. Q. When the forensic kit arrives and you start doing the fingertip search, do you start on the common approach path? A. I actually, as police search adviser, do not do the search; that was run by PC Sawyer. Q. You watched them all doing it for you? A. Some of the time. As police search adviser I have to liaise with the senior officers about the policies for the search and what we hope to get out of it, so I was backwards and forwards. Q. What were you hoping to get out of this search? A. We have to speak to the DCI initially and he wanted us to look for -- if again I may refer to my notes -- medicine or pill bottles, pills, pill foils or any receptacle or bag that may contain medicines. Q. You are doing a search for that. Are you also looking for anything else? The police search teams I work with would pick up anything that would be dropped by a human or out of the

15 ordinary. Those are the items that were just specified to us, but as a search team we tend to look for anything that should not be there. Q. And having searched the common approach path, either side of the body was searched; is that right? A. The common approach path was about 70 metres long. We searched 10 metres either side. Then we had a request to search 10 metres around the glade, if you like, the opening in the woodland where the body was. Q. Do you know whether anything was located as a result of these fingertip searches? A. Nothing. Q. Do you know whether there were any signs of a struggle seen as a result of these fingertip searches? A. No, there was no sign of an obvious struggle. Q. What time did you finish the searches that day? A. The search of the common approach path and the area 10 metres around the top of the body was concluded at hours that day, but then we were given another task by the detective chief inspector. Q. What was that other task? A. The task was once the body had been removed for us to fingertip search the area inside the tape where the body was. Q. Did you do that? A. I changed search teams. PC Sawyer and I remained on site, as police search adviser and team leader, but I changed the search teams over and a new search team came in, again dressed forensically, to do that. Q. They carried out a fingertip search of that area? A. They started at hours and finished at hours. Q. Did they find anything? A. Nothing. Q. No sign of a struggle? Q. No other medicine bottles or anything? Q. And do you recall what was retrieved from the scene? A. That would have been retrieved by the scenes of crime officers. The actual scene where the body was was dealt with by them first, hence the reason we had to wait until nearly 7.30 in the evening to search the site. They would have retrieved the knife, the wrist watch and searched the body. That is not down to me and my team. Q. They would have retrieved the knife, the wrist watch, the bottle of water and the bottle of tablets we are going to hear about? A. Yes, I do not know about the bottle of tablets. Q. And is there anything else surrounding the circumstances of Dr Kelly's death that you can assist his Lordship with? A. Not with this initial part, sir, no. LORD HUTTON: Constable Franklin, after you and your colleague had found the body you then went back and other police officers arrived on the scene, is that right? A. Are we talking initially, my Lord? LORD HUTTON: Yes. A. Initially it was just PC Sawyer and myself that went into the scene, but, yes, the whole search team would come up to a rendezvous point and be deployed by me from there. LORD HUTTON: How soon did you return with the search team to the scene? A. PC Sawyer and I left the scene and we returned with the vehicle minutes later. The search team did not attend until...(pause) About half past 12, I believe sir. The search itself did not start until 1 o'clock in the afternoon. LORD HUTTON: I see, yes. You return with Constable Sawyer just within a matter of minutes. LORD HUTTON: Thank you very much indeed. A. My Lord, thank you. LORD HUTTON: Thank you. MR KNOX: My Lord, the next witness is Mr Sawyer.

16 POLICE CONSTABLE MARTYN SAWYER (called) Examined by MR KNOX Q. Mr Sawyer, what is your full name? A. Jonathan Martyn Sawyer. Q. Your occupation? A. I am a police constable with the Thames Valley Police, stationed on the police search team the same as PC Franklin. Q. Which station? A. That would be from the Royal Lodge in Windsor Great Park. Q. What are your qualifications? A. I am a qualified EOD searcher, which is explosive ordnance searcher. We have to be licensed by the Home Office and we retrain on a periodic basis. We also train to search major crime scenes, murder scenes and any major event. We search events like Royal Ascot, which we call a defensive search, to make sure there are no explosive devices left. We also do offensive searches or crime scene searches, as the Dr David Kelly search. Q. I understand you are a search team leader? A. I am a search team leader, which means I have done a further course which enables me to actually run a search. Police Constable Franklin, being the police search adviser, will liaise with the senior investigating officer. They will decide on the parameters of the search, what they want searched. It is then turned over to me to organise the logistics of it, to plan the search, do the cordons, to set the searchers going and supervise them while they are searching. Q. You were on duty on the morning of 18th July? Q. What happened when you first turned up? A. I was called out, I believe, about 6 o'clock in the morning to attend Abingdon police station for 8, where I was informed by PC Franklin we had a high risk missing person. We had a missing person who was identified to me as Dr Kelly. Q. Just pause there for a moment. A high risk missing person, meaning what? A. "High risk" means that there is a possibility that because of the length of time they have been missing there is a possibility that he might have done himself harm. Q. So Police Constable Franklin tells you that. Then what happens? A. Then we are in the briefing that Police Constable Franklin has already described. We are just about to leave to perform our first searches, which would have been in the village and the surrounding areas of the route he was thought to have taken, when information came in that a body had been found. I then left with Police Constable Franklin to attend the scene. Q. Can you remember what time it was that that information came in? A. It would have been about 9 o'clock, I believe. Q. So you then leave with Police Constable Franklin? Q. And anyone else? A. We had three other officers in the back who we took from the search team to act as the cordons, because obviously we do not want members of the public or members of the press approaching the scene until it has been obviously searched and declared sterile. Q. And where did you then go? A. We then went to the track that leads up to Harrowdown Hill, I do not know the name of the track, but when we arrived we saw a vehicle parked which belonged to Louise. We started walking up the track. We also had with us two paramedics who had arrived, which we took up with us to make sure that the person we were going to see did not require any medical assistance. Q. Those two paramedics had obviously arrived separately from you? A. They had arrived more or less at the same time we did. So the five of us went up because we were with Sergeant Alan Dadd as well. Q. Where did you stop the cars?

17 A. Stopped the cars -- I believe it at is the top, I have not seen the map but I believe it is at the top of Common Lane. Then we turned left and right up to the track which leads up to Harrowdown Hill. Q. You go along the track, where do you then go to? A. We met Paul from SEBEV walking down the hill. Q. Paul Chapman? A. He told us basically the body was further up in the woods. We continued walking up the hill, where I saw DC Coe and two uniformed officers. I said, you know: whereabouts is the body? He pointed the path he had taken. I asked him if he had approached the body. He said he had. I asked him to point out where he had entered the woods and PC Franklin and myself entered the woods at the same point, taking with us a dozen or 15 aluminium poles we use when we are moving towards a scene to establish a common approach path. Q. Were the paramedics with you at the time? Q. The other three officers? A. They remained down on the path. Q. So it is you, PC Franklin and two paramedics, then the other three officers you have met; is that right? Q. You go down further into the woods, is that right? A. The three officers -- DC Coe and the two uniformed officers -- stayed on the path which leads through the woods. We branched off to the left about 50 or 70 metres up into the woods, where the body was. Q. So it is just the four of you; is that right? A. Just the four of us went up there. Q. Did you see anything on the way? Did you notice anything on the way? A. No, no. As we walked through the woods we were leaving our aluminium poles, which have a fluorescent marker on the top, so we could establish the route we had taken into the woods. As we crested the slight rise, I saw the body lying at the base of a tree. I then said to PC Franklin and the paramedics to stop while I got my digital camera because I wanted to take a record of the scene before it was -- before we actually approached it at all. So I took a number of pictures as we approached the body, and of the body and the surrounding area; and then the paramedics asked if they could do their job, to which we said: yes. They tried to -- they used the paddles of the electrocardiogram machine to try to see if there was a sign of life through Dr Kelly's shirt. They were unable to do so and said: could they undo the shirt? I said: yes. I asked them to wait for a second. I took another two more reference pictures. They then undid the shirt, put the electrodes on and got a graph from the machine which showed there were no signs of life. I then -- they disconnected their equipment from the machine, leaving the electrodes in place; I asked them to do that. I then took a further reference shot to show the electrodes in place. Q. Before the paramedics approached Dr Kelly's body, can you remember what position it was in? A. Lying on its back with its head at the base of a tree, a large tree. The head was tilted to the left. The right arm was by the side. The left arm was palm down. There was a large amount of blood on the back of the left arm. There was a watch and a curved knife by that wrist. Q. And you say a curved knife. Was it open? Was it a pen knife? A. It was open. I have seen gardening pruning knives which look identical. I would have called it a pruning knife. Q. Did you see a bottle of water? A. I did, by Dr Kelly's head. There was an open bottle of Evian, 500 ml or 300 ml bottle, with the cap by the side of it, by his head. Q. Was it upright? A. It was leaning slightly. It had been propped but it was upright. There was still some water in it. Q. What injuries did you see on the body itself? A. I could not see any actual injuries because the injuries, I believe, were hidden by the wrist being turned down. But there was a large amount of blood there, and also from the mouth, the corner of -- the right-hand corner of the mouth to the ear there was a dark stain where I took it that Dr Kelly had vomited and it had run down the side of his face. Q. What about on his face, were there any marks or stains on his clothes? A. His jeans -- he was wearing jeans, they were pulled up slightly, exposing the lower half of his leg or his ankle. It