- F rd JANUARY Mrs. NANA WEINBERG

Transcription

1 - F 1 23 rd JANUARY 1964 Mrs. NANA WEINBERG I live at 85 Houghton Drive, Johannesburg. I know accused No. 3. I know him from Clermont. He was an engineer. I knew him as Denis Goldberg. He visited me at my house in JHB during 1962 around June last year. He stayed with me. In June 1963 he asked to be allowed to receive business letters at our address. I gave permission. Term of request did not extend beyond request. Letters often came to our address not for us. Letters came for No. 3 under name Williams. I did not speak to him about it. He took letters addressed to Williams. I discussed matter with husband. I was going to tell him not to use address. I don t know if I did. I knew his political affiliations. He visited us after letters stopped coming MR. D.G. WILLIAMS My name appears in JHB Directory as D. Williams 26 Ashford Rd. Parkwood is address given. I have postal address at Box 104 JHB for close on six years. Apparently form for P.O. Box in Saxonwold in my name and address was not signed by me. I did not grant anyone permission to apply for box in my name. I have stayed at address for 9 years. I am only D. Williams at that address. I don t know accused No. 3. He has never stayed at address while I was there LENNOX SMOLLAN I am director at Fred C. Smollan Box and Board Sales (Pty) Ltd 6 th floor Balmoral House, JHB. We handle sales for boxes and shooks Ltd shooks are component parts of box packed in bundles. I recognize Mr. Kantor. I also recognize accused No.

2 - F 2 3. I think I recognize bottom photo on D. 3. I first met this man on 12 th June 1963 when he came into my office. He had a beard and glasses then. He gave name of D. Williams said we could contact him at 85 Houghton Drive. He gave quantity of box shooks he required. Quantities large I asked him co- (where from) what to be packed. Have to know what is to be packed because of strength of box. Told Co. was being formed. Site had not been decided on. Q. Boxes not urgently required? A. He siad urgent. I said must have address to quote... Payment by bank endorsed cheque can contact him c/o 85 Houghton Drive usual enquiry no co. and no factory. I wrote to ppals and asked if interested I then wrote to 85 Houghton Drive. We tried to work out order 96,000 pieces of 16 xx 9 x ¼, 48,000 pieces of same size, 96,000 pieces of batons 2 x2 x½ 96,000-8½x5¼x½, 96,000 of same size ie 8½x5¼x½. I have been in business since I asked whether monthly requirement I forget answer but one order urgently required large order. Were pieces to spare lids and batons. Batons I could not work out what they would be used for. I see piece of wood on Exh. 7 Baton could be used for that purpose. Extra pieces could be used for Exh. 7. Reads from Travallyn 48,000 anti-personel Mines 16x9x6 corresponds with measurements given 5 lbs of amonia sealed in plastic bag (boxes would easily carry 5 lbs of powder + batteries)

3 - F 3 Copper contacts 2x2 (96,000) could be used for this. Boxes can be made from shooks cut etc Requirements 96,000 etc. Correspond with order sought to be placed with us. Document is T. 11 read out. T. 12 is letter I wrote to Williams (enquiry about deliveries). Handwriting on bottom is not mine don t recognize. T. 13 is letter saying can t manage J.C. LANKENAU I am employed by James Barwell of Alberton. I know Milbourne. Two firms are not associated but M. is a shareholder. Mf. grey iron castings and... I can identify accused No. 3 he is Williams points to D. 3. as well. He had a beard at time wanted castings for colleague could not disclose what was being manufactured I thought experimental I made drawing prepared quotation. Subsequently prepared sample for police Exh. 13. I wanted to know purpose because we make different grades of material. He specifically asked for cast iron. He wanted 210,000. It is a medium sized order (we are largest firm in S. Hemisphere) delivery not discussed we would require time to make trial castings I gained impression he did not want to disclose object quite common as far as we are concerned. He could not give address travelling around country if ready in 3 days he would collect or phone. I had quotation read. Quote 30c. wieght 2. lbs. Williams did not call again or phone. During adjournment I was shown T. 11 this object could have been used as a stick grenade. This corresponds

4 - F 4 with paragrph. 5 of T. 11. I don t know Titan machine but core blower may be the same. XAC. Objects could be used for many other purposes in ordinary engineering BENNET NBUYO NASHIGANA (not mentioned as an agent) I was member of ANC. Q. When did you join? A Q. In area in which you lived? Q. That is West Bank Location E. London? Q. Did you pay subscription? Q. What was it? A. 25c. per year. Q. Did you rise to any position? A. Yes I was secretary of West Bank Branch. Q. Do you recognize any of accused start with No. 1? A. I recognize him. Q. Who is he? A. Rolihlahla Mandela. Q. Meaning of. Q. No. 2? A. Walter Sisulu. Q. No. 3? A. I dont Know No. 3.

5 - F 5 Q. No. 4? A. Govan. Q. Know his full name? A. Mbeki Q. No. 5? A. He has goggles on I cant see it looks like Raymond Mhlaba. No. 5. I dont know. Q. No. 6? A. I don t know. Q. No. 7? A. That is Raymond Mhlaba. Q. Miss No. 8 go to No. 9? A. I don t know the rest. Q. Until 1960 the ANC was not banned/ A. That is so. Q. I want to start from there in 1960 a state of emergency was proclaimed Q. Did ANC cease operations from time it was banned? A. No. Q. What did it do? A. It went underground I went underground as well I was contact at West Bank with Regional Committee of East London and my branch. Q. By what name was RC known? A. Regional High Command. Q. Who was chairman for ANC for East London? A. George Kamone (not mentioned as an agent) Q. Who was head of Regional High Command? A. A young man Johnson Ngabele also known as Khandoti. Q. Did you in E.L. have any contact with Port E.? A. It was under committee of P.E.

6 - F 6 Q. What committee was that? A. Two people from P.E. come to E.L. Q. Who were they? A. Govan Mbeki (No. 4) and Vuyisile Mini (sometimes with) Q. Anyone else? A. Sometimes with Raymond. Q. What was position of No. 4 in ANC? A. He was in charge when given instructions by R.H.C. there was a contact between RHC and us he would give us whatever message to give i.e. that members of N.H.C. are here. Q. He was contact between P.E. and E.L.? Q. Alos convey messages from N.H.C.? A. Yes sometimes personally sometimes letter. Q. Where were headquarters of NHC? A. JHB. Q. What were Minis political affiliations? A. He is member of ANC Q. Do you know Zolo? His full name is Zolo Q.. he is also member of ANC Raymond M. also member of ANC. Q. When ANC banned did you get any instructions as to documents in your possession? A. Yes Mini and Zolo came from P.E. Q. What were instructions? A. Organisation had been banned all documents must be burned all money to be returned to them.

7 - F 7 Q. Did you carry out instructions? Q. Was ANC to operate underground according to any plan? Q. What was name of plan? A. Mandela plan. Q. Were you told about it? Q. By whom? A. Mini. Q. What was Mandela Plan? A. We had to work according to system we worked according to that system. We will start Mandela plan. Before organisation banned we were working on it. it had 10 members. When banned brought down to 7 it was committee in charge. Q. Any difference as to method of appointment? A. It was changed. Q. What was it before how selected? A. Elected at meeting. Q. 7 were they elected? A. They were appointed. Q. By whom? A. Mini and Qirni (Zolo) Q. What was name of committee? A. R.H.C. for East London. Q. How did Mandela plan work? A. Because many locations in E.L. 7 members each one of them must organise 7 other members in a particular location that would be his members.

8 - F 8 I organise for W. Bank. Q. What is name (i.e. Comm. of 7)? A. NHC of West Bank. Q. How did plan work? A. I was contact between my committee and Regional Command. I was to appoint my own Secr. my own vol. in chief my own treasurer Q. What were functions of Vol. in chief? A. He had to organise volunteers secondly if any duty to be performed he had to inform volunteers thirdly if any messages i.e. I would send him if I had to send message to RC Q. How did Mandela Plan work? A. 6 people then subscribed to me 20c. per month each this money I would hand over to R. contact he would forward it to P.E. We had booklet with receipts but did not write persons name. Locations were zoned A. Block in the case of receipt of money from Zone A the receipt would show: Received from Zone A No. 1 zone. Q. Did Mandela plan have further sub-divisions? A. Yes one group of 7 one is required to organise his own 7 his people to pay 20c. to him then through usual channels. People he appointed NOT to know my six people. Should only know me as contact. Those who organised their 6 and so on. Q. Member of HC of your location where they known to rank and file? A. No.

9 - F 9 Q. How was contact made? A. I am only person they are required to know. Q. Were rules of secrecy observed? A. We tried to carry them out. Q. What were rules for each member of HC? A. Keep quiet even if in trouble with police --- must be prepared to die rather than give information. We the leaders were preaching that and also expected to behave in same way. Rank and file. Q. Do you know any leaders who ran away? A. Yes Mark Masize from E.L. he is at Dar-es-Salaam a member of ANC -? Gobasi he is also at Dar-es-Salaam Q. Any more NB headquarters from JHB who were preaching from rank and file to die? A. I know O. Tambo who fled in 1960 member of ANC Joe Mathews ran away from Durban before emergency Duma Nokwe ran away afterwards he was Gen/Secr. Robert Resha also ran away after emergency Tennyson Makiwane another Makiwane some others from JHB that I am not certain of Q. Any European leaders ran away? A. Yes I saw in papers Joe Slovo he used to defend us in E.L.. Others I don t know personally but I saw in papers. Goldreich, Hodgson, Wolpe with Goldreich, Patrick Duncan (know him personally) - some Indians Abe Segal editor of Africa South

10 - F 10 Q. Any other rules that HC had to observe? A. Yes oath i.e. I, senior contact man if I gave junior any instructions he must carry it out and not challenge directive just as I must not do it. Q. Was that terms of oath? Q. Any other terms? A. If Vol. in chief called you whatever time it may be you must go with him - had to carry out his instructions. Q. Any other rule? A. Monies not to be kept by branch must be sent to RHC contact he would arrange to send it to P.E. Q. HC got its instructions from P.E. who in turn got it from NHC in JHN? Q. Did E.L. ever get directives from NHC in JHB? A. Not that I can remember. Q. Who were members of JHB HC who operated in your area? A. I only got information that somebody had been there I did not know myself. Q. Did you personally know who were from NHC in your area? A. None in E.L. when Mbeki, or Mini, or Mhlaba when they spoke at meetings Mgabele would inform us that member of HC are present. COURT: Was this at meeting?

11 - F 11 A. If any members of NHC visiting that part he would go to Mgabela then Mgabela he would come to us and say so and so etc are members of NHC and are here. Mbabela would inform us of meeting he would fetch us to meeting place Chief Volunteer would accompany him we would then see men like No. 4 and No. 7 Q. Mgabela would mention people by name? Q. When called to such meetings did either 4 or 7 give instructions? A. On many occasions they addressed us NOT me alone in regard to the organisation. All 3 originated from P.E. we were working under them. COURT: Are you confusing NHC with P.E. High Command? A. Mgabela always spoke about them as members of NHC from Port Elizabeth Q. WHere is location of NHC? A. National Executive before banning was in JHB because Sec/Gen was here conferences automatically in JHB under new plan, people I was told about that were members of NHC I knew them as people under whom we were working at P.E. Q. When you refer to NHC, did you mean NHC at P.E. or NHC at JHB? A. That is correct when he spoke about NHC he was speaking about people in P.E. YUTAR: April 1962 meeting.

12 - F 12 Q. How often did meetings take place? A. When they were present. Q. Yes. A. they came whenever they wanted. Q. Can you recall first meeting? A. The one in April 1962? Q. How do you know April? A. Day they arrived is Sunday I was at Sports Ground on Saturday I was told tomorrow that is why. Q. Why April? A. I am certain. Q. Who attended meeting? A. No. 4 Mini were there from P.E. Q. Where did it take place? A. East Eziphuns Location at house of Tinkie Albert? Q. What happened there? A. We were locked (?) there meeting was addressed. Q. What was directed at meeting? A. Some dissatisfaction about way were doing work in E.L. Q. What was dissatisfaction? A. Had not worked up a large number of people subscriptions did not come soon enough. People had to be sent into country to organise them. Q. How and for what purposes? A. Peasants to be organised and brought into movement to become freedom fighters and be taught about freedom struggle.

13 - F 13 Q. In what way was teaching to be used? What did they have to do? A. We were to know that Govt. of country was our enemy and laws were like chains about our neck because we were not consulted about anything even with new legislation which had to do with us. Q. What did Freedom fighters have to do? A. People had to spread information to all people outside and organise them to see they would become members of organisation. Q. What did they have to do with Govt? A. Defy them. Q. Anything else? A. Policy first to defy Govt in many ways i.e. at our location if anybody we suspected to be squealer we had to watch that person and mention him to RHC if there arrived an instruction about property of Govt to be destroyed we must destroy it but in my area such a thing did not happen. Idea in main was to cripple the Govt. Q. In what way? A. Economically. Q. And what else? A. Militantly. Q. Squealer had to be reported through contact? Q. Do you know of any squealers? A. Not in my location. Q. Were there squealers in other locations? A. YES

14 - F 14 Q. Were they watched? Q. With what result? A. One was shot. Q. Only one? A. Two I have heard of. Q. Is that one who is at deaths door A. He is still off his mind no paralysed shot in spine. Q. 3 shootings how many in all? A. That I know of only 3. Q. How did you hear? A. Mark Masiso told me he was chief secretary of RHC in E. London. Q. How did he come to tell you? A. When he came to see me. Q. Was he telling you in gossip or a report? A. Just talking. Q. Was it reported to RHC? A. Should have reported I don t know I was only contact if Masise knew then RHC must know. (objection to Ev. Court says will hear all objections at end) Q. How was Govt to be crippled militantly? A. Volunteers in our charge known as Madelakula )people who despise death) Q. Was it abbreviated at any stage? A. Not to my knowledge. They were the soldiers. Q. What did they have to do?

15 - F 15 A. Carry out instructions. Q. What sort of instructions? A. From what I know, distribution of leaflets, I was to receive them and hand over to volunteer in chief and he in turn to hand to volunteers then they would do distribution. Q. What did leaflets advocate? A. Last one was on 26 th June we distributed them on 23 rd a Sunday observant to June 26 th Freedom Day. Q. What else did they have to do? A. Not from my own knowledge, but what I heard from Masise, it was their job to kill people who were to be done away with. Q. Economincally, how was Govt to be crippled? A. For instance there were many articles of Govt that we were not supposed to buy Q. Any acts of sabotage in E.L. area? A. Only people killed as far as I know nothing burned. Q. Any further decisions in April 1962? A. Just work to be carried out. Q. Do you know workers who left country? A. For instance one person in my area I advised him to keep on with employment he was doing organisational work I told him not to leave job, but to go out on weekend. Q. I mean people who left country? COURT: People who were sent out. A. Yes 2 people convicted. Arrested in Rhodesia Papa Mbatyathi and Malgit Ntbebe.

16 - F 16 COURT: Did you know these people? A. Malgit was my volunteer in chief. Q. And the other one? A I knew. Q. Do you know how they came to leave? A. Masise arranged their going away Q. What was Masise s capacity? A. Chief Secretary of RHC. Q. How did you know? A. He told me. Q. Only two? A. Two from my area I heard afterwards they were arrested. I don t know others by name. Q. Were they also sent away? A. Yes from what I heard from Masise. Q. Where were they going to? A. Ethiopia, Tanganyika Algeria for military training to fight for freedom fight the Govt. Q. Anything else to do? A. Come back here. Q. ANything else? A. From what I heard from Masise just before he left, after they had been trained and came back, they would train others to fight for same purpose. (ADJOURNMENT) 2.P.M. Q. I reached stage of Ethiopia etc. Q. To come back and teach others to fight for freedom? A. Correct.

17 - F 17 Q. Did people have to do anything else? A. To train others to commit acts of sabotage in order to cripple Govt. Q. Were they to commit sabotage too? A. Where necessary. Q. Any particular types of target? A. I know for fact Govt. dwellings viz power stations, police stations, railway stations etc and all places from my own knowledge that can easily become targets. I visited a sub-station last year 1963 during April. I went with Mark Masise. Q. What happened there? A. When we got there our intention was to take him to pass water topic changed when he saw a sub-station. He wanted to know what it was. I said sub-station. He said easy to blow up. I agreed said no lights he agreed I said where dynamite. He said don t you know. I said I would contact person who knew a Bantu who worked Roads Dept of E.L. Div. Council (buse) He was not sober could not discuss anything constructive made appointment did not keep met following Thursday said must expect a message. Saturday, Sitho (asst. to Vol in chief) Galelikile came told me that he had instructions from RHC to fetch me. Went along to Non-European Golf course met Mark Masise there M. said he had spoken to Buse voiced issue to Regional Conduct Regional Conduct said

18 - F 18 expert from P.E. would come. Q. Who was expert? A. Did not enquire cant give name. Sub-station was not blown up expert on dynamite was in trouble with police and could not reach E.L. also M. himself had trouble with police and had to go into hiding. From hiding he crossed border of Republic presently in Dar-es-Salaam. M. reported two shooting not present when decision taken Knew from Regional High Contact man people in way or stumbling blocks must be eliminated Mark Masise told me of shooting of paralysed man Jacques Dukada also known as Selulo. Dukada was a young business man taught young Bantus to type in political field we termed him an informer. He was one of our culprits. Q. Was he shot at? Mark did not say who did shooting. Mark also reported Inkie Hoy affair young Bantu girl died after petrol bomb thrown into dwelling (item 129) petrol bomb in her home Duncan Village don t know name of street. Young Bantu girl was injured (not seriously) Other one died. No shooting on that occasion I don t think somebody came out otherwise would have been shooting.

19 - F 19 No report from Masise on item 51 read out in press. Matoh is deputy ambassador of Chief Kaiser Emigrant Thembuland. He was active organiser prior to banning of ANC. When arrests made before banning he ran to press and said he had nothing to do with politics. When Transkei was to get self rule heard run over he wanted to be Ambassador of Matanzina then told press he was to contest seat of ambassador. We decided he was an informer and a sell out. Q. What was done to him? A. I was told Petrol bomb thrown in his room and did not properly materialise. I am not sure of his address. Duncan Village (item 413) RHC in E.L. RHC in P.E. Q. Any authority over these two RCH s A. Yes I must speak of person I took Mbeki to be authority over P.E. and also E.L. brought directives although some were sent by post. No. 4 s directives I took him as contact between NHC in Tvl and P.E. and E.L. I took him to be contact man. Q. Why did you take this to be case? A. Whenever before he came to E.L. it was duty of RHC contact man in E.L. to order volunteer in chief to go round sub-contact

20 - F 20 man to make then know certain high ranking officer to visit E.L. sometimes for subscriptions sometimes money for entertainment and food usually explained to me I siad who He said Mbeki a NHC man. Q. Mbeki and Mhlaba came from P.E.? Q. Were they there in 1962 and 1964? A. I am not certain of period when I was told that Mhlaba was no longer in P.E. Mbeki also not there for some time. (as this stage Court gives witness statutory warning) WITNESS: I was not forced to give evidence I gave it willingly

21 - F 21 REGINALD MDUBI (not mentioned as an agent) given statutory warning Q. Do you live in Duncan Village? Q. Do you know ANC? A. I do. Q. Did you join organisation? Q. When? A Q. Until when did you remain a membmer? A. Until Q. What then did you resign? A. I resigned. Q. Did you hear of ban by Govt? Q. After that did you again have any connection with this body? Q. Did you join again? Q. Of own accord or were you approached? A. Somebody spoke to me Mgabela he was member before banning. Q. What happened to organisation when banned did it cease to carry on? A. It carried on. Q. When Mgabela approached you when was it? A Q. Did you agree to join again? A. Yes I joined again Knew how activities of ANC were governed before banning.

22 - F 22 Q. Did Mgabela tell you of any difference after banning? Q. How to be run now? A. Mandela plan. Q. After you decided to join were committees formed? Q. Did you become a member of committee? Q. What was your committee called? A. Regional committee. Q. For which area? A. East London a few were chosen for whole area not I I was on Regional Committee for Border Q. How many on that committee? A. 9 we were 9. Q. Chairman or chief man who was he? A. Sparks. Q. Next office bearer? A. Secretary was Masise his Xhosa name was Tuli Masise Q. Others who were they? A. Dwaba myself Q. Mgabela was he on committee? A. Yes he was contact between us and P.E. the National Committee in P.E. Q. Anybody else? A. Mkosano, Tshwete, Mniki I think I have give all Q? Bongco?

23 - F 23 A. I know him he was chief volunteer. Q. What were duties of C.V.? A. To look after volunteers. Q. What did they volunteer for? A. They were members of organisation. They were not told to do anything in particular. Q. Mgabele and Boncgo were they fully fledged members of committee? Q. How did committee come into being? A. Taken from cells. Q. Appointed or elected? A. Appointed by Mgabele. Q. Where did other volunteers come from? A. From the cells. Q. When was Regional Committee established? A. I was appointed in June 1962 I don t know when it was formed. Q. Did RC receive instructions from another body? A. We received instructions what to do from National executive in P.E. Q. HOW did you get instructions? A. Letters were written. Q. To whom? A. Mgabela on receipt he would take it to his secretary two would read it tear it up then tell us. Q. Why tear up? A. Not to be found if person caught. Q. After you were appointed to RC was anything done with the volunteers how they came into existence?

24 - F 24 A. Each cell had a volunteer that particular volunteer had to organise other volunteer. Q. Was there ever gathering of volunteers? A. Yes about Q. Where did it take place? A. Golf course. Q. At what time of day? A. Morning. Q. What happened here? A. Volunteers had to sign a form to sign that they would obey superiors whenever a volunteer required he must be there. Q. Do you know what would happen to volunteer who refused to obey orders? A. He would be punished not said in what manner. Mgabela addressed volunteers then was the taking of an oath had to close first and say Amandla-Nga-Wethu (strength is ours) Q. Volunteers had to obey superiors? Q. Did RC have superiors? A. Yes as ordinary member Mgabela and Bongco were my superiors I was ordinary member of Regional Committee they could give me orders I had to carry out what they said not allowed to question them Q. After this meeting did you take active part in activities of ANC? Q. WHAT did you do (much prompting)

25 - F 25 A. I made bombs we were taught by Bongco in a house in location petrol bombs. Q. Where you told what bombs were to be used for? A. They were going to use them. Q. Who? A. Bongco and volunteers. Q. Why were they to use them? A. Against people who were not along with this organisation. Q. By this organisation you mean what? A. ANC Q. Any other targets besides people? A. No not said. Q. How many bombs did you prepare on that occasion? A. On three occasions first we made 6. Q. When was first occasion? A. November 1962 we made 6. Q. What happened to them? A. We took them with us. Q. Where did you go to? A. Outside the location when outside B. divided up volunteers some went to teacher called Dyana he is now secretary of School Board. They were to burn his house. Q. Why? A. Because he became an Adv. Board member. Also, children at East London (his home town ) he did not assist them to become teachers when they qualified. Q. Were you against the fact that he became a member of Adv. Board? A. Yes I was against it too.

26 - F 26 Q. Why? A. The ANC was against member who joined the Advisory Board. - Another batch was setn out that night they were to go to Tongdi At time of case of Tani Tshume it appeared he was to give evidence for State Tshume was member of ANC Q. Any other batches sent out? A. Only those two on first occasion. Q. Were attacks made? A. At Djanis place it was unsuccessful I don t know why (item 102) Q. At Tanyeni s place? A. It worked a studio couch was damaged inside the house (item 103) Q. Did you make bombs again? A. Yes December me and Bongco. Q. How many? A. Four as far as I can recollect B. sent out young ment to do firing Old man Hoyi he lived in Duncan Village he does not get along with us, firstly he was Ambassador of chief Archie Sanwile (he is a Cistei Cheif) he said we would not get freedom in 25 yrs (Hoyi said that) he said we were too raw meaning uncivilised, they were to brun down his place. They also had a revolver. Q. To do what? A. If he had come out he would have been shot. Q. Any other target for that night? A. Only one.

27 - F 27 The place was burned two children were burned one died (item 129) On 3 rd occasion B. and D. made 3 bombs going to be sent to Tongeni (same as first attack) all 3 for him men were sent out they were not used when they arrived there there was a policeman. Q. Apart from these three occasions do you know of any other victims of your organisation? Q. Tell us? A. J.J. MATOTI Q. Anybody else? A. Dukada that is all. I heard about it from B. Q. Was that a report to committee? A. No. B. told me about this privately. Q. Who decided on people to be attacked? A. Chief Volunteer had to do it. Q. Once he decided would he put it before Reg. Committee? A. No. Q. Victims not discussed at Reg. Com. at all? A. No. Q. Why did you go with? A. He fetched me. Q. Was there ever a report back to RC? A. No. Q. Did you engage in any other activities to further the aims of organisation propoganda financial matters? A. We paid subscriptions.

28 - F 28 Q. Did you ever have leaflets? Q. What did you do with them? A. Distributed them in locations We were told to make maps a letter came from the National I did not see the letter We were told by Mgabela we were told to take maps of situation of all police stations in Border area also forests don t know what intended for maps were prepared I saw them police took them. 10.A.M. 24 th JANUARY 1964 Q. You gave evidence yesterday and mentioned Mgabela? Q. Do you know his address? A. 427 Beaker St Q. You also mentioned circulars? Q. Did you ever see any circulars? Q. Did you see on circular where it came from? A. It came from the Reef. Q. Which part? A. I do not know I did not see the envelope. (Berrange explains that he will not be able to complete XAC. Judge says can always apply to recall if necessary) (X A C) Q. Have you been arrested?

29 - F 29 A. No. Q. When did you make statement? A. At the police. Q. When? A. When they were arresting people. Q. When was this? A. I have forgotten month last year. Q. More or less when? A. I think it was May. Q. You joined ANC in 1952? Q. Remained member until when? A Q. Joined again in 1961? A. Yes Q. Did you believe in aims and objects of ANC? A. I did not know what aims were? Q. You did not know policy? A. I knew policy. Q. Did you believe in it? Q. What then were aims? A. Policy was non-violence. Q. In ANC was National Executive Committee (not in the Cape) A. They had a contact there. Q. But top committee was Nat. Executive? Q. In Cape, at P.El. there was an Ad Hoc Committee which took place of Prov. Executive?

30 - F 30 Q. Then Regional Executive under Ad Hoc? Q. Probably 9 of them one in E.Cape W.Cape, Albany, Border (on which you were) Midlands Kimberley plus Transkei & Cestei is that correct? Q. ANC for many years had volunteers? Q. Did you read about Treason Trial? A. I read about it in newspapers. Q. Volunteers mentioned in that trial. A. I don t remember that. Q. Under Regional Executive was Branch Executive? Q. Branch Committee chose volunteers & Regional Committee would draw on them? A. Not under new system. Q. Well, where did Regional Committee gets its volunteers? A. One cell has a volunteer and that volunteer organises volunteers in that cell. Q. At Branch level? Q. Then RC draws volunteers from there? Q. Chief Volunteer on RC has no contact with Ad Hoc Committee? A. He had. Q. Volunteer or contact man? A. C.V. gets his instructions from the contact. Q. Yes and contact man has liason with committee above him?

31 - F 31 Q. So C.V. of branch has no contact with Region? A. C.V. contacts everyone from Regional Committee right down. Q. The Chief Volunteer of which take for example the RC the contact between RC and Ad Hoc is contact man an NOT C.V.? Q. Similarly branch executive under RC, then contact man has contact between two, NOT the C.V.? A. Contact that connects RC to Branch, is everything. Q. That is NOT C.V. COURT: WITNESS: Is C.V. and contact man the same? There are two people. Q. If contact between Region and Branch, contact would be through contact man? Q. Not C.V. who is different person? Q. If RC is to get instructions from Ad Hoc those will come through contact man? Q. Who was contact man on your RC? A. Mgabela. Q. He is person who would and did bring instructions to RC? Q. You have told us how this happened letters conveyed to secretary two read letters tear up and report to RC their contents?

32 - F 32 Q. You attended meetings of border RC? Q. You knew what was happening on RC? A. Like what? Q. You knew work you were on committee yourself? A. What sort of work? Q. Work of your organisation? Q. You took part in discussions? Q. What sort of thing was discussed on RC? A. Whenever received a letter would discuss contents Q. You got instructions in regard to activities i.e. leaflets? Q. What sort of activities did you discuss on RC? A. First was in connection wity stay at home circular Q. For what day? A. They call it Freedom Day 26 th June. Q. What other activities did you discuss on RC? A. I cant remember there are a lot. Q. Tell us some? A. One matter was to make a map of police stations. Q. What else? A. Of bushes. Q. What other activities on R.E. leaflets. COURT: HE has already mentioned leaflets. Q. What else? A. I cant remember Q. Cant remember any others? A. No.

33 - F 33 Q. Did you discuss slogans? A. No. Q. Did you discuss strikes? A. No. Q. Did you discuss boycotting certain shops? Q. COURT: What boycotts exactly? A. Such as stores. Q. Private stores? A. Yes African who holds store must no accompany us Q. Any other activities? A. I cant remember Q. Organisational set up was that there was G R.E. on which there was a contact man and Chief Volunteer? Q. Was Chief V. on R.E or not? A. He was a member of committee. Q. C.V. could not give instructions to carry out activity such as slogans, leaflets etc without authority from RC. A. Matters such as slogans on wall? Q. General political activity A. None of these things discussed at Committee I mean slogans. Q. I mean political activity on RC take leaflets or other political activities before C.V. could give instructions it had to be discussed on RE and he had to get instructions from RE? A. May I make it plain as far as pamphlets there were discussed at Committee.

34 - F 34 Q. Discussed political activities at RC? Q. Political activity generally? Q. So far C.V. concerned, he was not allowed to give instructions fir RC acitivity, unless first discussed on RE and he was authorised by them? A. That is quite so. COURT: Could contact man get instruction from Ad Hoc and pass it on to C.V. without consulting executive A. C.V. and contact man never brought sabotage to the R. Committee A.M. (ADJOURNMENT) Q% At adjournment you sat next to previous witness BEnnett? A. There was a policeman between us. Q. I asked you to be separated because Bennett was talking to you A. I was talking to policeman not Bennett. Q. Volunteers to defy? Q. To court imprisonement by defying unjust laws? Q. Kept up within framework of ANC from then on? Q. To become volunteer had to fill in application form? Q., That was practice that usually took place?

35

36 - F 35 Q. Do you know what was on application form? A. He had to respect man above. Q. That was code not form there were 3 docs. appl. form oath and code? A. I never saw that. Q. Appl form contained personal details? A. I did not see one. Q. Even though old member of ANC? A. I am. Q. Do you know what code was? A. What sort of code? Q. Volunteer took oath after appn? A. I have never seen appn. Q. He had to take oath? A. I saw one for oath. Q. What was that? A. He is volunteer and must respect one above Q. But you said that was another form viz golf course in 1963, each v. had to sign form saying he would obey those above must be on hand. A. Yes? Q. Then asked did they also take oath you sakd they would close fist etc. Q. Do you know terms of oath? A. None other than that. Q. Just Mandela -? Q. Did they not say I will be loyal to code of ANC and carry out duties and then say Amandla?

37 - F 36 A. That is so. Q. Had you forgotten oath I will be loyal etc Q. I will be loyal to code of ANC is in oath? Q. Code was to observe personal cleanliness? A. Don t remember. Q. To be temperate i.e. not to get drunk do you remember that? A. That was common thing. Q. Also contained section that V. must be truthful do you remember? Q. He must be honest? Q. Section with discipline to carry out instructions of higher officer, even if not happy as long as within framework of ANC policy? Q. May not have been in code, but if V. had objections, he could raise objections which would be gone into first with Board of V. if not satisfaction, could refer to Ex Comm..? A. When was code made Q.. COURT: From time of first volunteers, I assume Did you know volunteer could lodge objection? A. Yes before the banning. Q. After banning that part was left out? Q. Was section dealing eith discipline?

38 - F 37 Q. To carry out instructions of higher officer even if not happy as long as within framework of ANC policy? PUTS Accompany shops meant that we must not patronise shops Q. You have told us that ANC policy was one of non violence? Q. You have also said sabotage violence not discussed on Regional Committee? Q. You did acts because told by Bongco, and had to do what told by him? A% That is correct. RE EXAMINATION Q. Distinguish between ANC before banning and after banning did you have committee before banning? Q. Volunteers before banning? Q. What happened to these committees when ANC banned? A. Our branch was dissolved. Q. And volunteers? A. Nothing spoken. Q. After banning you served on RC? Q. Were you elected or appointed? A. I was appointed.

39 - F 38 Q. One night in bush was volunteer ceremony (in G. Course) Q. What year was that? A Q. What time was that? A. Before noon. Q. What time of the year? A. June. Q. Made bombs and handed over to men? Q. Who were men handed to? A. Volunteers. Q. You said before banning a volunteer could lodge objection but not after Q. He had to carry out instructions from higher officials as long as within policy of ANC? Q. Was that before or after or both? A. Both. Q. Before banning was there violence? A. No. Q. After banning? A. There was sabotage occurring. Q. Did you query that? A. No. Q. That conflicted with policy of non violence (objection by Berrange) Q. You committed sabotage after banning? Q. In conflict with policy?

40 - F 39 Q. Did you not query that? A. With whom? COURT At committee level? A. Anything connected with sabotage never went to committee Q. After acts committed was it raised on RC? A. No. Q. Why? A. No I don t know it was never discussed. COURT: Knew about people being sent out the Republic for training? A. Was it me that said so? Q. You had no knowledge about this. A. No. Q. Never discussed at your committee? A. No.

41 - F 40 DET.SGT. DONALD JOHN CARD D/Sgt in SAP stationed at E.L. I was serving on criminal staff and dealt with political matters mobs in Pondoland and E.L. and ANC matters. I assisted investigations in E.L. and P.E. Q. Did ANC continue to function after 1960? A. It continued I know of numerous pamphlets. Q. What was nature? A. Anti-Govt. or directed against members anti ANC or representatives of Bantu Chiefs or members not interested in ANC. Q. How do you know ANC? A. A number of pamphlets printed that issued by ANC and African Action Council. Slogans in June July 63 slogans anti-govt also regarding ANC spies and persons who assisted boo Deal with acts of sabotage in annexure B. Q. First item 41 puts details from annexure. A. Home of Matobi who was ANC member Chairman up to 1956 resigned became Matanzimas MP. I am a Xhosa linguist. I investigated act petrol bomb thrown through window damaged clothes injured leg. Q. Have you arrested anybody yet? A. We have arrested Khondoti (alias Mgabela) No. 9 Q. I want to deal with Dukada. A. He is or was a police informer at present a shell lying in Frere Hospital expected to die any moment. Mnzindwale Mandla has been arrested No. 18. Q. Item 51: reads details. A. I visited place after incident two petrol bombs

42 - F 41 lots of paraffin damage caused to furniture 2 bombs thrown 2 panes broken nobody arrested. Q. Item 101: reads details (Tonyenk) A. Petrol bomb was thrown through window - damage to couch and window Ambassador witness in Tani Tshume trial. A pamphlet was issued against him denouncing him as a witness. He is a journalist expressed his views in Daily Despatch and pro-govt. Bantu newspaper. Arrested for incidents are: Not sure of Q. Item 102_ (committed same night) Dyani A. He is chairman of Bantu school Board pro-govt member. Matters were on same night but reported at different times. In case of Dyani a petrol bomb thrown onto verandah no damage caused. Arrested: Washington Bongco (No. 1) Johnson Khondoli (No. 9) Fezile Mlandu (No. 14) Zola Mjo (No. 23) Shadow Mdemke (No. 21) Zita Mabona (No. 11) These people are all members of ANC. Q. Item 129_ (Hayi) A. Hayi is an old man lives in Kwina St he was at that stage an elected member of Rarabe tribe not appointed yet outspoken personality wrote in Daily Despatch pro- Govt. in way that he said no African could control country for 100 yrs. I was at house within 15 mnts of bomb room burned 2 bombs 2 young females removed to hospital 1 died 4 days later one was 11 one was 14 (one who died). Also what looked like bullet mark on wall small hole cartridge case handed over to me later

43 - F 42 A Bongco (1) Khondoti (9) Mlandu (14) Mjo (23) Mkungwana (26) Ralana (40) All members of ANC Q. Alleged shootings? A. I received a report of shooting at Matoti I saw where bullet struck iron. Constable Mhlanga I got report went to home of Dixon I investigated shooting he not injured. Mary Neer an ex member of ANC - friend of Mtobi I received report I picked up 2 bullet heads in her room saw shots in direction of bed no injury. Constable Mcobi he had to report for duty I found him in hsopital bullet wound below left shoulder I went to spot indicated to me picked up bullet and cartridge case. Arrests: Mtati Atwell Msanli (not on list) Mhlanga no arrest Mary Neer Zola Njo Mcobi Mandla Zola Njo Msanli is also a member of ANC. Item 162: - secind bomb at Tonyeni s house I found bomb exploded outside one hit wall no damage arrests: Honde Nga (26) Fizil Mlandu (14) Bongco (1) Ralawa (40) Bernard Nkanganth (35) All members of ANC Item 170: - I investigated matter found 2 poles one completely cut other almost fallen H.T. Powerlines had fallen. As a result supply of electricity cut off to 4 towns (4 hospitals)

44 - F 42 3 convicted: Andrew Masondo (17) 12 yrs Tamsanga Dick (2) 8 yrs Gloria Mkuniqi (22) 8 yrs) All members of the ANC. I took possession of maps found in room of Stephen Tswete (49) hidden between wooden partitions and corrugated iron planks nailed down he is on RC of ANC in E.L. There are 3 maps originals with AG of Grahamstown. Hands in as first map is rough sketch showing towns in Border area include small places with police stations and roads leading to them. 00/2:- is map of p/sts and Defence Force area in border also roads no distances indicated also goal some so small I dont know them. oo/3:- appears to be P/sts but seems more concerned with roads main roads dark subsidiary roads light. Port Elizabeth Acts: No. 68: constables house I investigated a few minutes after incident 4 bottles thrown. No. 86:- telephone wires 7 telephone wires cut with a pair of pliers I investigated (main line G/Town and E.L.) No. 88 telephone wires not sure I went to a number of them at one 24 wires cut with pliers several local residents in N/Brighton No. 92:- 2 wires cut obviously with wire cutter or pliers serves small area. No. 93:- cut chain holding points line deviated main line deviations small offloading in shape of half moon train would have

45 - F 43 been thrown to deviation if fast probably overturned. No. 94:- Wires cut on main connection line out of action for Item 98:- I think 6 wires (no 12) near school cutters or pliers used. No. 99:- Poles wooden poles cut off with saw local line out of action. Sgt Du Preez can give names of arrested persons. Q. Any recruits sent out of E.L. to your knowledge? A. I know of three person who were arrested. Q. Fritz: (i) Malgit (37 of agents) (ii) Papa Mbhatyl (not mentioned) (iii) Sodice comes from E.L. (not on list) No. 18 Makalina I know of him comes from Alice area. 38:- Mzuzu comes from Cathcart A. a member of Youth League and ANC. Q. I am dealing with period A. Fritz is in period. No. 5: - a member of ANC West Bank cell 6: - not any part. cell 7: - brother of 6 no part. cell ANC 8: - also ANC member 10: - is wife of No. 9 dont know if she is member of ANC 12: - is member of ANC 13: - is ANC no particular cell 14 & 15: - both members of ANC 16: - He was a member of Regional Committee later on ordinary member 18: - Chairman of Mekini cell, Duncan Vill. 19: - member of ANC 20: - also member of ANC Stanly Nzo both ANC members Cyril Nzo 28: - member of Tsolo cell 29: - secretary of West Bank cell 30: - member of ANC 31: - member of Zipunza cell 32: - (ADJOURNMENT)

46 - F 44 2.p.m Member ANC Zipunzana cell member of African students association also recognized as a wing of ANC member of ANC member of West Bank cell went out of country and arrested in Rhodesia West Bank cell of ANV African students association. Also ANC ASA was at that stage recognised as a wing of the ANC previously RC later ordinary member of ANC West Bank cell of ANC West Bank cell spelling name is wrong Sihawu is correct Zipunzana cell Tsolo cell of ANC West Bank cell of ANC Formerly on Reg. committee ANC and them an ordinary member EMMY SEBONE Q. Are you employed by Mr. Dunn? Q. In Berea JHB? Q. Before who were you employed by? A. I worked for Mrs. Kriel. Q. When did you start with Mrs. Kriel? A. January of last year. Q. Where was she living? A. Norwood. Q. Did she move? A. Yes to Mountain View 10 Terrace Rd. Mrs. K. was married two children whole family moved they moved at end of March.

47 - F 45 - Q. How many houses on these premises? A. A main house and a cottage. K s moved to main house. Q. Was anybody in cottage then? A. No. Q. Did people eventually come after you were there? Q. How long after you were there? A. Cant remember how long, Q. Who occupied cottage? A. Boss Don Q. Was he first one? Q. Do you know surname? A. I only know him as Don Williams he is accd. 3. Q. Did you ever go into cottage to do anything? A. No. Q. Do you know if Don had means of transport? A. I saw a sort of van as far as I knew it was his, cannot say if it is his. I saw him one day get out of it and walk into cottage. It was parked in street. Only saw it on one occasion. I have no knowledge of makes of car it was a light colour I did not take part. notice. Q. How long did he stay there? A. Cant say did not take part. notice. On one other occasion I saw person on stoep. I dont know who this person is. Q. Do you know Eva? Q. From where?

48 - F 46 A. We worked together at M/View she came on 1 st day of April shortly after we moved Q. Were you there when police came? A. No I was again back with Mrs. Dunn Q. Did premises have quite a big yard. A. A big yard? Q. Can you remember anything out of common happened there one day? A. One day at about 5.p.m. I saw woman crying with the man it was Mr. and Mrs. Kriel both of them were crying. Q. When they arrived there? A. I was in kitchen both crying. Q. Do you know day? A. No. Q. Do you know month? A. I cannot say may have been July. Q. What happened? A. They went to cottage brought our cardboard boxes and threw them in dust bin. Q. What did they do? A. They threw them away Q. Where? A. Where you pass house on main side where peels thrown off at own house. Q. Is it rubbish heap? A. Not ashes like potato peels etc thrown away Q. How many cartons? A. No I cant say sun was already down and I could not see very clearly

49 - F 47 Q. Did they carry cartons singly or both one carton? A. I saw mr. Kreel carrying one cardboard box that is what I saw. I had never gone to cottage it was first time I had seen carton dont know what sort of cardboard box it was perhaps my attention was more on their crying. Q. Did they dump contents or thrown carton away. A. I don t know if there was any contents I just saw carton. Q. Did they come back with carton? A. No. Q. What happened further? A. I did not see what happened further except I saw fire Q. Where they took the carton? I dont know the key before the Court (cottage key found at Rivonia) Q. Apart from fire was anything else done there or not? A. No. Q. On following day did you go to spot? A. Yes when I went to throw out rubbish. Q. Did you notice anything unusual there? A. I noticed where fire had been it was wet previous evening it was dark and I did not go there there was nothing to indicate to us why wet or what happened I did not see anything else I saw no ash there. WITNESS: Unless you look particularly you would not notice things Q. Had ground been disturbed at all apart from wet? A. I dont think I noticed anything besides wet. Q. Did you hear noises on previous evening when they carried things to dump? A. No.

50 - F 48 WITNESS: COURT: I saw a typewriter in the big house I dont know what happened to it.. Was it still there at time of dump? A. I dont know I did not notice. Q. Did No. 3 visit Kreels in the main house? A. He did visit. Q. Did they visit him? A. Yes they went to cottage as well. (Evidence of police will be that place had been freshly dug up and ANC and communist documents found there : viz about the Kreels)

51 - F 49 JOHN TSHINGANA He is warned as an accomplice. Q. Look at dock can you recognize any of them? A. There are some I recognise. Q. No. 1. A. No I do not Q. No. 2? A. I don t know. Q. No. 3? A. No. Q. No. 4? A. I know No. 4. Q. Who is he? A. Govan Mbeki. Q. No. 5? A. I don t know him Q. No. 6? A. I don t know Q. No. 7? A. I know as Raymond Mhlaba. Q. You are a taxi driver? A. Yes Q. A registered taxi not pirate taxi? Q. Driving own car? Q. Operating in P.E. and New Brighton?

52 - F 50 Q. Do you know ANC? Q. Did you ever belong to it? Q. When did you join? A Q. Did you assume any particular position? A. I was a volunteer. Q. Of which zone? A. Zone O Q. What were your duties as a volunteer? A. I was using my car. Q. For what purpose? A. If I had to cart people to meeting I would use my car. Q. You were like transport officer for ANC? Q. Who gave you instructions? A. Mostly Govan. Q. What were his instructions generally? A. He came in morning go fetch luggage at Court Chambers. Q. What instructions did he give what did you have to do? A. He used to come to me and tell me to do this. Q. What was this? A. Come at 7 in morning go to Court chambers to fetch goods. Q. How often did you use taxi to take people to meetings? A. Not very many times

53 - F 51 Q. Who did you convey on those occasions? A. Caleb Mayekiso, Mbayo Ncongobi, Mcunbube, Raymond Mhlaba, Govan Mbeki Vuyisile Mini, Mkaba, - those are people I remember. Q. Did you attend any meetings yourself? A. Not inside meetings. Q. Not inside meetings? A. No I usent to go in. COURT: Where were meetings held? A. New Brighton, Lundine, Vryplaas. Q. Was it hall, tent, private house or open air? A. In private house. Q. Do you know Silas Ntongana? Q. Who is he? A. He lived in New Brighton. Q. What can you tell us about him? A. I went to fetch goods at Court Chambers with him. Q. DO you know Joseph Jack? Q. What can you tell us about him? A. He was in car Q. How often did you convey him in a car? A. I made a mistake he came to us when we went to fetch goods at Rink St. COURT: What was name of place where Joseph Jack went with? A. I am not certain of places Can you fix me up as far as Silas is concerned.