TRANSCRIPT February 25, 2018 WHI-1403 Knowing the Love of Christ

Transcription

1 TRANSCRIPT February 25, 2018 WHI-1403 Knowing the Love of Christ 00:00:02 Michael Horton: We're familiar with people pitting emotion against intellect. So, you have the eggheads who just want to take the doctrine and the emotional folks who say I just want to feel it. I don t need to know it. Paul just blows all that to bits. It is filled with emotion but it's cognitive at the same time, that you may have strength to comprehend with all the saints, what is the breadth and length and height and depth and to know the love of Christ. 00:00:37 Narrator: Five centuries ago in taverns and public houses across Europe, the masses would gather for discussion and debate over the latest ideas sweeping the land. From one such meeting place, a small Cambridge inn called The White Horse, the Reformation came to the English-speaking world. Carrying on the tradition, welcome to the White Horse Inn. 00:01:02 Michael Horton: Hello and welcome to another edition of the White Horse Inn. With us in the studio, we have Adriel Sanchez, Pastor of North Park Presbyterian Church in the San Diego and Steve Parks is Professor of Theology at Concordia University in Irvine, California, and Neil Edlin, Pastor of Saint Mary Magdalene's Anglican Church in Orange, California. I'm Mike Horton, I impersonate a professor at Westminster Seminary, California. Great to have you guys back again on the White Horse Inn. We were ending last program with Paul's wonderful climax of his argument that really the church is the revelation of the mystery of God, particularly the uniting of Jew and gentile into one body with Christ as the head. And that s why Paul says we don t lose heart even in my suffering. Look, I'm in jail for Pete's sake writing to you. Don t lose heart. If Christ's suffering was the means of him trouncing Satan, our suffering is part of that. Our suffering can only tear down the remnants of Satan's kingdom. And so now in chapter three, he turns in verse 14 to say, " For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named, that according to the riches of his glory he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit in your inner being, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith." First of all, I mean, I got to say, one of the things that leaps out here is as in many passages in Paul is Trinitarian. I mean, you have Christ dwelling in our hearts through faith. You have him saying, "I bow my knees before the Father," so that he may grant you to be strengthened with power through his Spirit, so that Christ may dwell in your hears through faith. So, we bow to the Father, in the Son, by the Spirit. That s what's wonderful about preaching this gospel, that with him, we can all fall on our knees in praise of the Father for this glorious plan that he has fulfilled in his Son and now is completing by his Holy Spirit. Why does he say, "From whom every family in heaven and on earth is named?" 00:03:36 Steve Parks: Well, I think you get the idea here. Sometimes, people suggest that God is father like people on earth sometimes are fathers, when in reality the exact opposite of that is true. People on earth are said to be like God. God is not like them. In other words, it's God who's given the precedence, it's God who is the archetypical Father. He is the one who is the head of all creation and then you have human beings who are sometimes said to be like him when they head up their own families, when they head up their communities, when they head up

2 their own nations and so forth. And so, I think there's the idea that human beings can sometimes reflect certain communicable attributes or aspects of God and be a father similar in ways that he is a father, though, of course, not identical to. 00:04:23 Michael Horton: So let's move to verse 17 then, "So that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God." 00:04:48 Neil Edlin: These are more those unsearchable riches. The love of Christ surpasses knowledge, meaning, the love is just incomprehensible to us. The breadth and length and height and depth of God's love for us in Christ, so it goes in all directions and then that we may be filled with all the fullness of God. 00:05:05 Michael Horton: I'm reminded of Romans 8:29 through 35 where Paul says, "What then can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ? Neither height nor depth nor things present 00:05:21 Neil Edlin: nor things to come nor angels, rulers or principalities. 00:05:23 Michael Horton: Nothing in all of heaven or earth will ever be able to separate me from the love of God that is in Jesus Christ. 00:05:30 Adriel Sanchez: And how important it is for us to grasp that. It's one thing to say, yeah, we know that God loves us, but it seems like what the Apostle Paul is doing here he's longing for the people to whom he's writing to have the illumination that we spoke about in a previous episode, the genuine understanding of something that ultimately is beyond our fully being able to grasp it, but to know the love of Christ and he's praying to that end. 00:05:57 Michael Horton: We're familiar with people pitting emotion against intellect. So, you have the eggheads who just want to take the doctrine and then the emotional folks who say I just want to feel it. I don t need to know it. 00:06:14 Neil Edlin: Head knowledge versus heart knowledge. 00:06:17 Michael Horton: Yeah, we don t need no education. And Paul just blows all that to bits because it is filled with emotion. It is filled with praise even to the point where I fall down on my knees before the Father. It's filled with gratitude, grounded, rooted and grounded in love but it's cognitive at the same time, that you may have strength to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height. That s what we're doing when people say, well, going through all these doctrines. Well, actually what we should be doing, I hope, is trying to comprehend with all the saints, present and those who have gone before us, what is the breadth and length and height and depth and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge. We're not saying that we can comprehend it in the sense of being able to know the truth as God knows it. All we're saying is, hey, let's come scuba dive into this so that we may be filled with all the fullness of God. Folks, this isn't just about knowing more facts, it's about being filled with all the

3 fullness of God. I love the line from J. Gresham Machen, the New Testament Professor at Princeton who kind of led the charge against liberalism. He observed that liberals of his day were, "Constantly talking about applied Christianity without having any Christianity to apply." You can't apply these great doctrines of the faith without comprehending with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth and to know the love of Christ that surpasses knowledge. 00:08:16 Neil Edlin: And Paul knows that this is incomprehensible to us in the ultimate sense. But he's saying pursue it. You have to pursue it anyway. He's praying for the church. He wants it to grow and increase. Christ's love is incomprehensible. 00:08:29 Michael Horton: Just because you can't touch the bottom of the lake doesn t mean you shouldn t swim in it. Then verse 20, Ephesians 3:20, "Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us. Now to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, forever and ever. Amen." I picture there's still -- I mean, this is all still part of it, on his knees collapsing before the Father in tears in doxology and saying, now, to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all that we ask or think. Wow, far more abundantly. There's this thing in Paul throughout his letters, lavishly, which he lavished upon us the grace, the riches he lavished upon us in Christ Jesus. It's not that he gave us a few riches. It's not that there are a couple of things that he did that you really need. And if you improve on it, you can really get somewhere. He lavishes. He gives us more than we need. 00:09:44 Neil Edlin: Right. This is not just your dad giving you a few quarters to go down and play in the arcade. This is the ultimate father giving you all that's his through his Son. 00:09:54 Steve Parks: Part of that here, he says, "To him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations." So, the idea here is that one of the things that he lavishes upon us is that he sees to it that the church continues to exist throughout all generations. So, in the United States especially, we're surrounded by all kinds of cults and sects and other groups that suggest that the church stopped existing after the apostles died and then sprang up again usually in the 19 th century. But the Apostle Paul says here that the church glorifies God throughout all generations. Why is that? Because again, it has its foundation laid in Christ himself and Christ himself builds it and Christ himself preserves it throughout all generations. 00:10:38 Michael Horton: Yeah, such a great point. And again, even the glory. God shows his glory in the church. That s amazing, a church full of us. Isn't it amazing to think of yourself as a living stone in a building, a living organic and growing building? 00:11:01 Steve Parks: Especially when you know yourself and you know some of those other stones. I mean, when you look at scripture itself and you see how the church is sometimes described. Think about the church at Corinth, for example, where they're struggling with division and they're struggling with questions of church discipline and they're struggling with celebration of the sacraments. I mean, they're a complete and utter mess. They don t look like anything that you would hold up as a prize for victory, at least from a human perspective. And yet, when you

4 view the church from God's perspective, you see that it's presented without spot or wrinkle or any such thing. Why? Because of the shed blood of the Savior. 00:11:34 Adriel Sanchez: I mean, the argument that Paul uses when he's writing to the Corinthians is, don t you guys know you're the temple of God? How can you be participating in some of the things that you're participating in? Another thing is I look at these prayers for people who are looking for -- how do I pray? What can I pray confidently? I love the confidence that Paul shows in Ephesians 3:20. God is able to do way more than we ask or even think as he's praying for his people to be filled with the love of God. And these are the types of prayers that we ought to be praying because they're in line with God's will and we can be confident as we pray in this way, that God would sanctify us and fill us with the knowledge of Christ, that God is able to do far more than we ask or think. This is a prayer that he wants to answer. 00:12:15 Michael Horton: Yeah. He doesn t just want to answer our puny little prayers. He wants to add a cherry on top. He wants to just lavish chocolate and just keep pouring it on. 00:12:29 Neil Edlin: He gives the spirit to assist us in our prayers anyway, right? So, the prayers were already kind of being corrected and reformed to be asking really what we really need. 00:12:38 Michael Horton: Yeah, so it's truly abundant. To him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations forever and ever. Amen. From there, we turn chapter 4 and remember, there are no chapter headings. All of this is just one letter. And so, he's just continuing with his thought here. I, therefore, a prisoner for Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and gentleness, with patience bearing with one another in love. Paul just constantly does this. He just rings out all of the treasure into a pail for us to enjoy. He says this is what -- he's chosen us in Christ. He's redeemed us by Christ. He's given us his Holy Spirit as a deposit. While we were dead, he made us alive in Christ. He's accomplished all this. He has taken from the two peoples, Jew and gentile, and made them one people in Jesus Christ. He has done all of this. He has accomplished all of this. I, therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you. I therefore urge you on the basis of these mercies to walk in a manner worthy of that amazing calling to which you have been called with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love. Whoever thinks theology isn't practical doesn t know what they're talking about. 00:14:15 Neil Edlin: This whole second half seems to be shift now to the imperative. The rest of the letter, therefore, in light of all that I've said to you in the first three chapters, let these things dwell in your richly, walk in a manner worthy, act like I'm telling you, you are. 00:14:32 Michael Horton: Yeah, it's a real danger for us in our theology generally. I think this is a danger with our traditions, to go through all of Paul's epistles and once the doctrinal stuff is over, we yawn and go home. So, we stop at, now to the one who is able to far more abundantly than all we ask or think according to the power at work within us. To him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations forever and ever. Amen. Now, let's go to Colossians. Then the tendency on the other side in other circles is to start -- and I don t mean literally in their preaching, but start in their thinking about the faith, to start with, I therefore urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called with all humility and gen-

5 tleness, patience, bearing with one another in love. So that s my life verse. I'm going to put that upon my refrigerator. No. What Paul wants us to do is read it like a letter, an actual letter with a flow of argument; with that, therefore, being there for a reason. Therefore, in view of all of this, I, Paul, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in this manner. 00:15:48 Adriel Sanchez: I think it's fitting that he begins with humility, too, because coming right off of chapter 2 and everything he had been saying in the previous chapters, the idea of us being dead, of not contributing anything. I mean, it just makes perfect sense. It's like if you really grasp this, if you truly understand this, well, the very first thing in terms of your calling is humility, because this isn't something that we've done or created. We didn t build this church. This is something I'm giving to you. 00:16:14 Michael Horton: Such an important point. Edmund Clowney said on several occasions Calvinists are the only people on earth who can be proud of the fact that we know we're totally depraved. 00:16:28 Adriel Sanchez: It's true. 00:16:29 Michael Horton: Your point taken. I mean, seriously, if you know that he did the electing, he did the choosing while we were dead in trespasses and sins, he raised us together with Christ. By grace, you ve been saved. Really, if you know all these truths, good grief, humility is the first fruit of the Spirit you think would be produced. 00:16:51 Steve Parks: If it isn't, then you likely don t understand any of the things that you're claiming that you do. 00:16:56 Michael Horton: Yeah, so go back to the A, B, Cs, let's go back to the first part of Paul's letter in order to really -- you didn t quite get it yet. 00:17:03 Neil Edlin: You get the first half where it's saying, so to speak, in this letter where it is gospel. It's all the message of what Christ has done and then you get into this other part where now it's walking in humility, gentleness, patience. And people, are they going to get turned off with the doctrine? But then they kind of hear this stuff and that seems to not be what they're practically looking for either. They're looking for some third category, which is a frustration when you preach. 00:17:29 Steve Parks: Give me some rules to follow. 00:17:32 Michael Horton: How can I be humble? Well, okay, let's go back to everything that I just said. Why gentleness and patience bearing with one another in love? Why does that follow from what he's just said? 00:17:46 Adriel Sanchez: I think part of it just has to do with the people to whom he's writing. Obviously, you have this Gentile inclusion, you have tension within the church. I mean, these are some of the fruits that this church, these people really, really need to exhibit to one another. When you find yourself in the church with people who are different than you are, eating hotdogs

6 or ham sandwiches or whatever, with other sinners, it's not just Jew, Gentile, it's just with other sinners. If you're in proximity with them as we ought to be as Christians who are attending to means of grace, we quickly find that we need to exercise forgiveness and kindness and patience. And I think this is really important because a lot of people, they go to a church, they are there for a while then the moment there's tension or a disagreement, they say, well, this is not the place for me. Paul actually anticipates that we're going to be experiencing these things in our churches because we're in communion with other sinners that God has brought together and part of demonstrating that we've understood everything that has come prior to this, the glory of the gospel, what God has done in uniting us, is that we're able persist with each other and continue serving alongside of each other and serving each other as well despite the fact that we have differences. 00:18:58 Michael Horton: Yeah, it might not be ham, but in our circles, it is, if we were raised in churches where a badge of your righteousness was that you didn t drink or smoke, then in our traditions, the badge of righteousness is that you do. And so, you can imagine if you think of analogies like that that are relevant for us in most of our churches today, you can really see how with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love. So, there are people who think that having a glass of wine or beer with your meal, people who think that is worldly, that s a sign of your being. Well, explain yourself. Teach people. You don t walk into a Baptist church with a keg and say, hey, the Reformed people are here. 00:20:04 Steve Parks: I've been doing it wrong. 00:20:07 Michael Horton: By the same token, you can't walk into a Lutheran event in the basement without there being a keg. And so, if you come from the Baptist church to that, bear with each other with gentleness and humility and patience. We got to understand each other and the main thing here is love. Look, if you ve been loved like this, how can you be stingy with your love of your fellow brothers and sisters? 00:20:36 Steve Parks: Yeah. I mean, really all you have to do is look at your Facebook feed depending on the time of the year. If it's October, you get Christians that are going to tell other Christians they're demon-possessed because their daughter wants to dress like Elsa from Frozen on October 31 st or you get people who say, well, if you celebrate Christmas, then clearly you don t have the spirit of God, things of this nature. 00:20:58 Michael Horton: Home schooling versus public school or Christian school. 00:21:02 Steve Parks: We missed the mark, I think, in many cases. 00:21:04 Michael Horton: It reminds me of the foot washing scene in the upper room in John 13 where Jesus says to the 12, "Do you understand what I have done to you?" He's washed their feet, clearly here anticipating, it's a parable of what he will do on the cross in his death. Do you understand what I have done to you? I love that, have done to you. You call me teacher and Lord and you're right, for so I am. If then, I, your Lord and teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example that you should do as I have done to you. Truly, truly I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do

7 them. So what he's saying here is, again, the imperative is grounded in the indicative. If I have washed your feet, then go wash one another's feet. And isn't that what Paul is saying here? If you ve been loved like this, go love somebody else like this. 00:22:15 Steve Parks: Freely, you have received, freely give is essentially what we're getting here, just in another way. When you have been shown the amazing love of God in Christ Jesus, when you have been given freely everything in him, how can you then not want to share with others? How can you not want to freely love others? How can you not want to give to others who are in need? If you don t, once again, just like we said earlier, then you don t really understand what was done for you and you need to revisit that issue so that you can get things in order. 00:22:48 Steve Parks: That s a really important point because I found that there are a lot of people that you can talk to that assume they understand it because they ve heard it over and over again. So when you try to give them that truth, they just say oh whatever. They're not interested in listening. But remembering the fact that we may not truly get it all the time, we actually do need to be reminded of this great truth, even us, Mike. 00:23:11 Michael Horton: wow. I mean, I knew the Lutherans didn t. 00:23:15 Adriel Sanchez: That s right. But it's one of those things that people, their hearts can grow hard to it because they ve heard it over and over again and they should be hearing it over and over again. But we've got to challenge them there and say, have we truly grasped this? Are we becoming more humble as a result of having been served and having been loved? If not, then what are we missing? 00:23:34 Michael Horton: Are we bearing with one another in love when we have such big disagreements between denominations and traditions? Even here around the table, we have huge differences and our forbearers have come to fisticuffs over it. They're not insignificant issues but even though we disagree while retaining our convictions, do we bear with one another in love? That s a question that we all need to constantly ask ourselves. 00:24:08 Neil Edlin: At times you see it, too, and I think in the church, I'm guessing the three of you have as well, where someone will come to you and say I m having a problem with this person or this issue and they want to find out how they can get beyond it. It's really great to be able to actually share that instead of them being angry and stewing in it. They're trying to live this out to some degree and it's really a heartwarming experience to have. 00:24:30 Michael Horton: That s a great point. And he says, bearing with one another, eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one spirit just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and father of all who is overall and through and in all. Unless we're willing really seriously to unchurch and excommunicate everybody who isn't in our denomination or doesn t affirm our confession, this includes people of various stripes with whom we wouldn t have table and pulpit fellowship necessarily, but somehow pertains to all of us to be eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace because there's one body and one Spirit. There aren t a bunch of churches. At the end of the day, there is one church, I believe, in one holy catholic and apos-

8 tolic church, one Holy Spirit, there aren t many spirits. So, we all have our own contexts and our own sins and our own blinders but it's the same Holy Spirit we're baptized with. We're reading the same texts that he inspired, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all us. Shouldn t that make some difference in how we think of our divisions? 00:26:12 Steve Parks: I think it should. What we sometimes do is we come to see our own confessional documents and we come to see the writers of those confessional documents and those who champion them in such a positive light and perhaps rightly so, at least from the Lutheran perspective. But what we sometimes, I think, miss is that those guys sometimes had some polemics that were a little bit off. They sometimes said things that were not just unkind, but that were just flatly untrue about other Christians. So, that kind of thing doesn t help, right? It just broadens the gap. It doesn t foster understanding and it doesn t get us any closer to what Paul is speaking about here. So, even within traditions that are heirs of the reformation, we have a long way to go, I think, on this. Now that's not to minimize our differences. We have some important ones, but we don t need to add falsities into the mix to make up difficulties that aren t there. We have enough to deal with those that are there. 00:27:07 Michael Horton: Exactly. And that s why, for instance, one baptism. Isn't this, at the end of the day, the greatest affirmation of ecumenical unity of the unity of the body of Christ, is that we acknowledge each other's baptism? I mean, we even -- I think around the table, we acknowledge Roman Catholic baptism; we do not re-baptize Roman Catholics. We acknowledge Baptists' baptism when a Baptist comes to our church and joins our church. We don t re-baptize them. Now, we have to be re-baptized in a Baptist church if we want to join that church and a Roman church and an Orthodox church. And I think that basically what you're saying at that point is these people aren t Christians. And so, that s a very serious step to take to say that I don t acknowledge your baptism. So, at the very least, I can say to Lutheran, Anglican, Baptist, Roman Catholic believers, Eastern Orthodox believers, those who are trusting in Christ, even though I disagree strongly with their doctrine. I can say at least we share in one baptism, let's start there. 00:28:23 Adriel Sanchez: I think that there's also an important theological point to make with regard to the unity that the Apostle Paul is talking about here because he doesn t say creating this unity, but maintaining the unity that God has already given to you and the fact that true unity is not something that we can conjure from below or create here through whatever clever strategizing or being nice to each other. But it's something that s already ours through baptism and the work of God's Spirit. We have to recognize that and walk in that, in line with. This is something that s seen all over the place in Scripture. I think of Psalm 1:33, "Behold how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity. It is like the precious oil on the head running down on the beard of Aaron." It's like that anointing oil from God coming down from above on the priest, on Aaron. That s what unity is. It's this gift that God gives to the church. Our job is to recognize it and to live in it as Christians. 00:29:18 Michael Horton: And the Holy Spirit is that anointing. 00:29:19 Adriel Sanchez: That s right.

9 00:29:21 Steve Parks: That s so beautifully said, Adriel, the idea that true unity is a gift of God rooted and grounded in truth. And this is the difference between true God-given unity versus false ecumenism that we see around us, where as you said, people try to conjure up or create a unity that isn't real and therefore isn't lasting. 00:29:43 Michael Horton: Yeah. You have on the liberal side if we -- the line from the world council of churches, Doctrine divides. Service unites. But then, on the -- 00:29:54 Steve Parks: That s kind of a theological statement. 00:29:56 Michael Horton: Exactly. In a lot of evangelical circles, it's doctrine divides but prayer unites or getting together in a stadium and having an evangelistic crusade together unites. But really what Paul saying here is, no, that s getting you off the hook too easily. We're talking about actually the church as an institution here, a visible institution in history, they have one Lord, one faith, one baptism; not one prayer meeting, not one evangelistic service, not one service project, but that they have one gospel, that by one Spirit unites them to Christ through one baptism to God the Father, one Father who is over all. That is what we're talking about here, Paul says. That church, that real concrete holy Catholic and Apostolic church that I founded is based on this gospel proclaiming Christ's death and resurrection for sinners. 00:31:14 Neil Edlin: Talking about the dividing nature of doctrine, I'm not sure if people really always understand what they mean by that because sometimes division becomes the best way to weed out heresy, problems, confusion within the church. Jesus says in Luke 12, "Do you think that I have come to give peace on the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. From now on, in one house would be five divided three against two, two against three." 00:31:38 Michael Horton: So there has to be division in order for there to be unity. And that s what a lot of people don t want to -- just want the unity without the division, but to have genuine unity, it has to be built around something or someone. And here, he says, it is. It's built around Christ, the gospel, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. So, at a bare minimum, that is the unity that we need, not a fake unity, but that real unity, that true unity that is not just an inner unity of all who say they ve had the same experience. It's the objective unity of the same gospel with the same baptism. This means water baptism. This does not mean one Spirit-baptism. One visible actual water baptism along with one actual faith, set of doctrines that we believe, one Lord, one hope that belongs to your call, one body, one actual concrete visible body that yes, is distinguished from the invisible church that is known to God alone, but nevertheless is actually made visible and concrete by the means of grace, by word and sacrament. With that in mind, folks, we'll take a break there and come back in the next program to pick at verse 7 and to reflect hopefully on the fact that the unity of the church is an absolutely essential part of this mystery at the end of the age that Paul is proclaiming. In a very real sense, the church is part of the gospel, not what the church does, but the fact that in these last days, God the Father, in Christ, has broken down the wall between Jew and Gentile and made them one in Jesus Christ. Now, to him who is able to do far more abundantly than all we ask or think, according to the power at work within us, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations forever. Amen. We look forward to being

10 with you to do that again next time on the White Horse Inn as we continue or series on Ephesians. 00:34:08 Narrator: The White Horse Inn is a listener supported broadcast. For more information about this program, visit us online at whitehorseinn.org. If you sign up as an Innkeeper, Architect or Reformer, not only will you get a complimentary subscription to our magazine Modern Reformation, but you'll also get longer editions of every White Horse Inn broadcast. To find out how to join one of these support programs, click on the support tab of our website, whitehorseinn.org. You can also give us a call at That's We'll see you next time at the White Horse Inn.