Case 7:10-cr Document 132 Filed in TXSD on 04/29/11 Page 1 of 66

Transcription

1 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of UNITED STTES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF TEXS McLLEN DIVISION UNITED STTES OF MERIC, ) CSE NO: :0-MJ-- ) Plaintiff, ) CRIMINL ) vs. ) Mcllen, Texas ) MNUEL TIJERIN-HERRER, ) Monday, May 0, 0 ) Defendant. ) (: a.m. to 0: a.m.) PRELIMINRY EXMINTION / DETENTION HERING BEFORE THE HONORBLE PETER E. ORMSBY, UNITED STTES MGISTRTE JUDGE ppearances: Interpreter: Court Recorder: Transcribed By: See next page Woody Lewis Karen Lopez Exceptional Reporting Services, Inc. P.O. Box Corpus Christi, Texas 0- - Proceedings recorded by electronic sound recording; transcript produced by transcription service. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

2 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of PPERNCES FOR: United States: Manuel Tijerina- Herrera: KRISTIN REESE, ES. ssistant United States ttorney 0 W. Business Hwy. Suite 00 Mcllen, Texas 0 OSCR VEG, ES. Law Offices of Oscar Vega 0 W. Polk venue Pharr, Texas EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

3 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of INDEX PLINTIFF'S WITNESS DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS KEVIN BROWN 0/ DEFENDNT'S WITNESS JUNIT INES CNO DEFENDNT'S EXHIBIT RECEIVED RGUMENT BY MR. VEG COURT'S RULING(S) / FINDING(S) / EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

4 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Direct / By Ms. Reese 0 Mcllen, Texas; Monday, May 0, 0; : a.m. (Interpreter utilized for translation) (Call to Order) THE COURT: Number M-0-, United States versus Manuel Tijerina-Herrera. MS. REESE: The Government's present and ready. MR. VEG: Good morning, Judge. We're present and ready. THE COURT: Good morning. THE DEFENDNT: Good morning, your Honor. THE COURT: Good morning, sir. Okay. Mr. Vega, Mr. Tijerina wishes to proceed with the probable cause hearing? MR. VEG: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Very well. I'm sorry. You can have a seat with your attorney. MS. REESE: The Government calls Kevin Brown -- gent Kevin Brown. THE COURT: Okay. KEVIN BROWN, GOVERNMENT'S WITNESS, SWORN DIRECT EXMINTION BY MS. REESE: Special gent, please state your name for the record? Kevin Brown. nd with whom are you employed? EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

5 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Direct / By Ms. Reese Bureau of lcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. nd what is your position? Special gent. nd for how long have you been a special agent with TF? One year. nd are you familiar with the case against Defendant Manuel Tijerina-Herrera? 0 Yes, ma'am. nd is Mr. Tijerina in the courtroom today? Yes, he is. Could you please identify the Defendant by stating maybe an article of clothing he's wearing? Yeah. He's sitting right over there wearing a gray T- shirt with black writing. MS. REESE: Let the record reflect the special agent has identified the Defendant. THE COURT: Okay. Yes, it will. BY MS. REESE: nd Mr. Tijerina is here on a firearms offense; is that correct? Yes, ma'am. nd so what is the evidence against Mr. Tijerina related to this firearms offense? I received information that a Mr. Jesse Gonzalez may be purchasing firearms for someone other than himself. Myself and EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

6 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Direct / By Ms. Reese other TF agents conducted surveillance. He was observed with several other men transferring a rifle box from his vehicle into Mr. Tijerina's truck. Mr. Gonzalez was later interviewed. He stated that he was given money by Mr. Tijerina to purchase the gun, and he was also given additional money for doing so. Mr. Tijerina was also surveilled after the gun was moved from Mr. Gonzalez's vehicle to his vehicle. nd agents observed him driving back to his residence in Mcllen. nd -- Let me stop you there. When you're talking about 0 Mr. Tijerina's vehicle, he was observed as the driver of that vehicle, correct? Yes, ma'am. nd when the gun was transferred into his truck, he was observed at that transaction as well. Yes, ma'am. I don't mean to say transaction as far as money was exchanged at that point, but just that the gun was transferred from one vehicle to the other. nd where was -- where did this transfer occur? In the parking lot of Klub Infinity in Mcllen. nd who is the owner of Klub Infinity or the operator? The owner I believe is Mr. Tijerina's wife, and from what I understand he's the operator. Okay. nd so at this point, TF agents are watching Mr. Tijerina drive the vehicle that has the gun at this point. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

7 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Direct / By Ms. Reese Yes, ma'am. What happened next? He was observed along with two other males carrying the 0 firearm that Mr. Gonzalez had bought, what appeared to be one additional firearm box and also what appeared to be a canister of ammunition from the vehicle inside of his residence. Later, I guess when Mr. Gonzalez was interviewed and stated what he did about Mr. Tijerina paying him to purchase the gun, agents approached Mr. Tijerina in his yard and, you know, told him why they were there. nd a federal search warrant was obtained and served that same evening. nd the gun that Mr. Gonzalez had purchased was found inside Mr. Tijerina's home. nd how many -- I guess when you executed the search warrant, did Mr. Tijerina give a statement regarding the number of guns he possessed in the home? He did. He stated to gent rnwan (phonetic) that he had two guns and only two guns inside of his residence. nd when the search warrant was executed, how many firearms were found in the home? Nine were found. Were any of them registered to Mr. Tijerina? Not that I know. nd so it was -- you observed Mr. Gonzalez transfer one firearm to Mr. Tijerina. Did he give a statement as to how many firearms he provided to Mr. Tijerina? EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

8 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Direct / By Ms. Reese Yes. He said this was the third firearm in the last days. nd did you talk to anyone else who supposedly provided Mr. Tijerina with firearms? I have not personally done so, but multiple TF investigations have involved Mr. Tijerina over the last several years. nd I'm still in the process of reviewing reports, but at least five that I know of additional individuals have stated that they have purchased firearms for Mr. Tijerina in the past. 0 nd when you executed the search warrant -- and you, I mean, TF, I don't just mean you individually -- what sort of documentation -- personal documentation was found regarding Mr. Tijerina? We found two separate birth certificates. nd for what countries were they? Were they both for the same country? One was for the United States. One was for Mexico. nd the one for the United States, where did that indicate Mr. Tijerina had been born? lamo, Texas. nd when did it indicate he had been born? In, October the st. nd for the Mexican birth certificate, where did that indicate he was born? Reynosa, Mexico, October st,. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

9 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Direct / By Ms. Reese nd did you find any sort of additional information, legal status to be here kind of documentation? 0 Yes. There was a resident alien card. nd the resident alien card used what birth date?, which was on the Mexico birth certificate. nd did you find a driver's license? Yes, we did. nd that indicated what year of birth?, which reflect the United States birth certificate. When you executed the search warrant, did Mr. Tijerina give a statement regarding the United States birth certificate? Yes. He said that it had been purchased at a carnival. Did you have a chance to look at the birth certificate? I did. I know that you're not an expert, but did it appear to be one that you purchase at a carnival? No, ma'am, it did not. dditionally, I believe -- did you talk to anyone who had purchased guns for Mr. Tijerina or any females who had purchased guns for him? I have not, but I've read reports of interviews from 0 of two females that purchased guns for Mr. Tijerina. Did he have any other sort of business relationship with those females? Yes, ma'am. Both the females stated that they had been EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

10 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page 0 of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega 0 paid $00 for having sex with Mr. Tijerina. MS. REESE: I have nothing further for this witness at this time. I'm passing the witness. THE COURT: Mr. Vega. CROSS EXMINTION BY MR. VEG: Mr. Brown, my name is Oscar Vega, and I represent Mr. Manuel Tijerina. I spoke to you a few days ago; is that correct? 0 Yes, sir. Okay. nd when I called you, you were interviewing two young gentlemen at Mr. Tijerina's club? Yes, sir. ll right. nd after I hung up with you, you told one of the young men that I called and said that he was transporting firearms; is that correct? No, sir. re you sure? Yes, sir. You know it's a felony to lie to a federal judge? Yes. Yes, sir. MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor, relevance. THE COURT: Okay. I mean, it's really argumentative, so I'm going to sustain. // EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

11 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega BY MR. VEG: Did you bring the birth certificate, sir? photocopy, sir. Can you show it to us please? MS. REESE: Your Honor, at this point I would object. 0 I believe that goes to discovery. It's -- THE COURT: Well, since he was asked about it on direct, if he has it I'll go ahead and allow that. Then -- MS. REESE: Should I offer them to the case manager or -- THE COURT: Whatever. You can -- is it just photocopies? MS. REESE: They're photocopies of the United States -- THE COURT: Okay. MS. REESE: -- and the Mexican. THE COURT: Okay. That's fine. You can just hand them to counsel, and we'll see what to do from there. BY MR. VEG: Okay. This birth certificate, did you go check and see if it was registered in the county? Not yet, sir. You've had over a week. Why haven't you done that? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor, argumentative. THE COURT: Okay. That's sustained. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

12 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega BY MR. VEG: Does it have a number -- birth certificate number on the birth certificate? Not that I see it, sir. Okay. MR. VEG: nd, your Honor, may I approach the witness? BY MR. VEG: THE COURT: Yes, sir. 0 Is this the same document you've been talking about, sir? Yes, sir. MR. VEG: Your Honor, can we label it Defense Exhibit and have it admitted into evidence? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor. I don't believe that proper foundation has been laid. THE COURT: Okay. Well, we'll admit it just solely for purposes of the probable cause and detention hearings. That doesn't mean it would be admissible as evidence under the Federal Rules of Evidence but just as something that was used in connection with the hearing. (Defendant's Exhibit Number was received in evidence) BY MR. VEG: So you don't see a number where it's been registered, right? No, sir. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

13 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega Okay. nd he did tell you he purchased it a carnival, correct? He did not tell me directly, but he did tell one of our agents that. nd that's because you don't understand Spanish, right? Yes, sir. You actually had another agent there talking to him, correct? He speaks English fairly well, so I just wasn't present at 0 the time. But I did talk to him in English for extended period of time myself. ll right. Before -- you're saying that the gun was transferred to my client's vehicle and he took it home. That's one date; is that correct? Yes, sir. nd actually, the rest was later, several days later? No, sir. It was all the same day. It was the same day? Yes, sir. ll right. Now, after you talked to these young gentlemen, I believe it was on Friday, you discovered that it was not Mr. Tijerina who was present at the -- at his vehicle when the gun was transferred to his vehicle, right? No, I was not told that. You were not told that? EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

14 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega I was not. Okay. Do you have a recording of that transaction? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor. It goes to 0 discovery, not relevant to probable cause. THE COURT: recording of what, Mr. Vega? MR. VEG: video recording, your Honor, of the gentleman putting the gun in the truck. THE COURT: Oh, okay. MR. VEG: It goes to the weight of the evidence, your Honor -- THE COURT: Right. You can -- MR. VEG: -- if he does. THE COURT: You can answer if you're -- if you know. THE WITNESS: There is no video recording. BY MR. VEG: ll right. nd he did tell you that he had several weapons in the home; is that correct? He stated that he had two weapons. Okay. nd the other weapons were -- what kind of weapons were they? There were multiple rifles and handguns, and I believe that's all. Okay. nd I believe you left several weapons at his home after you left his residence, right? Not to my knowledge. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

15 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega BY MR. VEG: MS. REESE: Objection, relevance. THE COURT: Okay. He's answered already so -- nd there was nothing illegal about these weapons? No, sir. Okay. He actually told you that there was a weapon that didn't belong to him in his house, and he pointed to the gun case; is that correct? 0 Yes, sir. Okay. nd he told you that he was going to charge Mr. Gonzalez several hundred dollars to put a scope on that weapon; is that right? Yes, sir. Okay. Now, do you -- have interviewed any witnesses that Mr. Gonzalez has told you about that overheard him tell these individuals that he was putting a -- he was getting a scope put on his rifle? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor. gain, goes to discovery. THE COURT: Okay. I'm going to go ahead and allow that. BY MR. VEG: Have you interviewed any witnesses to that effect? Can you repeat the question please, sir? Okay. Have you interviewed any witnesses that overheard EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

16 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega Mr. Gonzalez tell these individuals that he was going to get a scope put on his rifle by Mr. Tijerina? No, sir. Before the day of his arrest, Mr. Gonzalez -- they arrested Mr. Gonzalez, Mr. Brown, do you know -- did you know anything about Mr. Gonzalez? 0 I had received information the day before the transaction. Do you know anything about his truth or veracity? No, sir. nything about his reputation in the community? No, sir. Okay. Did you do a background investigation on Mr. Gonzalez of how many times he's been arrested? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor, relevance. THE COURT: Okay. t this point, I'm not sure this really goes to the probable cause issue here, Mr. Vega, so I'm going to sustain that on background. MR. VEG: Judge, it just goes to the weight of the evidence. We have an individual who's claiming that my client did something, and I just want to know if the agent actually, you know, talked to individuals, see if this young man is capable of telling the truth or not. THE COURT: You're talking about Mr. Gonzalez. MR. VEG: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. Well, I am going to go ahead and EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

17 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega sustain that particular one. But you can go ahead. BY MR. VEG: MR. VEG: Okay. Did you check the weapon for any fingerprints? No, sir. MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor. MR. VEG: That was a no? THE COURT: Okay. THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. 0 BY MR. VEG: nd prior to -- was that pril 0th, sir, the day of the arrest? Yes, sir. Prior to that, you had not done -- you personally had not done an investigation on my client? That's correct. Okay. So you're taking Mr. Gonzalez's word that there was a conveyance of a firearm for money so he could -- so he could actually own the weapon without him having actually to sign for it, right? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor, misstatement of the evidence and argumentative. THE COURT: Could you -- Mr. Vega, I think you ought to rephrase that because -- MR. VEG: Okay. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

18 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega THE COURT: -- the question you just asked is one I think he's already answered. If there's other questions you want to ask related to that, you can, but I think that is something he's already testified to. MR. VEG: Yes, your Honor. BY MR. VEG: Sir, you've already had an opportunity to check all the 0 weapons in my client's house. Was there anything illegal about any of them? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor, asked and answered. THE COURT: Okay. That specific one was already asked, Mr. Vega. He answered that no. MR. VEG: Okay. THE WITNESS: If I may state, there was also an object attached to one of the weapons, which possibly may be illegal in and of itself. It appears to be a silencer, and that has been sent to the lab for testing. BY MR. VEG: Okay. nd that was a suppressor; is that correct? It's been sent to the tab -- to the lab for -- ll right. -- determination. But we understand that that is a suppressor which suppresses the flash -- a flash suppressor, right? EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

19 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega Multiple TF agents have told me that they believe it to be a silencer, and the final determination is up to the lab. Okay. You have not checked that out over a week? I -- You haven't fired a weapon? No. I don't fire the evidence weapons. I send them to a lab, so they test it. 0 Okay. They're certified to do so. nd we know -- and he told you where he got that from, right? Yes, he did. Okay. nd you understand that several days before that his wife had actually called the Mcllen Police Department on the individual that was leasing her property. MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor, relevance. MR. VEG: Well, he mentioned the weapon -- THE COURT: Well -- MR. VEG: -- your Honor, so -- THE COURT: I'm going to allow him to answer if he knows since he's mentioned that. You can -- THE WITNESS: I was not aware of that. nd to my knowledge, Mrs. Cano did not state that to any of us. // // EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

20 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega BY MR. VEG: Other than the hearsay, Mr. Brown, that you've mentioned 0 about other investigations, do you have any evidence, any documents with you today to reflect that? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor. It goes to discovery, not relevant to probable cause. MR. VEG: They mentioned it, your Honor. They're the ones who brought it up. THE COURT: Right. Well, the answer I think is pretty clear, I mean, from the testimony already. You don't have -- you've just testified that you read reports as far as these other investigation and that's all you've done at this point; is that correct? THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MR. VEG: Your Honor, I don't have any further questions for gent Brown. MS. REESE: Nothing further, your Honor. THE COURT: I did want to ask a couple things. nd Special gent Brown, as far as this Mr. Gonzalez had indicated that this was the third time that he had bought a firearm for Mr. Tijerina, did he say -- and this time, the firearm that he purchased was a. rifle, which is a semiautomatic rifle, like an M- type of rifle; is that correct? EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

21 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: nd did he say what type of firearms he purchased for Mr. Tijerina on the other two occasions? THE WITNESS: Yes. He purchased on pril th and pril st, both occasions were also rifles. One was a similar Bushmaster rifle. The other was a Sig Sauer rifle. THE COURT: Were they both. caliber semiautomatic rifles of different brands; is that -- THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: nd so I take it that those other two rifles that Mr. Gonzalez claimed to have purchased for Mr. Tijerina, they were not found at Mr. Tijerina's house when the search warrant was completed; is that correct? THE WITNESS: That is correct. THE COURT: nd so as far as Mr. Gonzalez is concerned, did -- was it you or one of the other agents that observed him to go to this Klub Infinity with the rifle case I guess at that point you could see? THE WITNESS: Myself and several other agents. THE COURT: nd did you personally see Mr. Tijerina there leaving the club with a rifle case or was that somebody else? THE WITNESS: I did, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. nd when you later interviewed Mr. Gonzalez, I assume that he was not aware when you first EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

22 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 interviewed him that you had been following him around or -- THE WITNESS: He was not aware that we had followed him to Klub Infinity, but by the time we approached him at his house, he was aware that we had been following him at that point. THE COURT: Okay. nd was -- were the statements he made, were those consistent with the other information you all had received as far as from the federally licensed firearm dealer and your own observations of what he had done, Mr. Gonzalez, as far as his activities? THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: You mentioned these other individuals, these reports that you looked at from these five other individuals who also said that Mr. Tijerina had purchased -- or that they had purchased firearms from Mr. Tijerina. nd do you recall the types of firearms that those other individuals claimed to have purchased on behalf of Mr. Tijerina? THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. They were similar rifles. THE COURT: Were they -- I mean, were they all the same. caliber semiautomatic rifles or were there different types or -- THE WITNESS: I don't recall. I know some of them were. THE COURT: nd as far as the significance of that EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

23 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 particular rifle, is there any significance to that in terms of -- well, one obvious thing that we have here in this area is obviously a lot of violence going on across the border in Mexico. There's been a lot in the news and a lot of cases here in Federal Court about firearms going from the United States into Mexico. s far as this. caliber semiautomatic rifle, is that -- is there anything significant about that in terms of that type of situation? THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. It falls under the category of weapon of choice because it's very common to be trafficked into Mexico. THE COURT: nd it's an assault-type of a rifle that's -- THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: nd I guess from other cases, I have heard that groups like the Zetas and others, that's one of their preferred firearms. Is that your experience and training as well that that's the case? THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: nd -- but as far as this point, these other individuals you're talking about, you say that those are some other investigation that somebody else has done. In terms of the situation here, you mentioned the nine guns that were found in his home. Were any of the other -- so one of them was the one that Mr. Gonzalez had purchased. Were there any other EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

24 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 of those same type of rifles in his home, the. caliber type of rifle? Do you know? THE WITNESS: Yes. There was one that had been converted. The lower half of the firearm was a. caliber, but the upper half had been removed and converted to a larger caliber. THE COURT: I don't understand what that means. I guess I'm not that familiar with firearms. So it started as a. semiautomatic rifle. THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: nd they did something to it so that the caliber was higher so it took bigger rounds or something or -- THE WITNESS: Larger rounds -- larger rifle rounds. THE COURT: nd was it still semiautomatic or -- THE WITNESS: It was, your Honor. THE COURT: s far as the other -- so there's one -- one of the nine was that one. nd the other ones you mentioned were rifles, and there were some also handguns as well or no? THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Were there -- there's some testimony about something about a scope or maybe Mr. Vega was just asking you about a scope. Was there any -- during the search, were there any scopes, riflescopes that were found there at Mr. Tijerina's residence? THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

25 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 THE COURT: nd they were -- were they already mounted on other rifles or were they separate or what? THE WITNESS: To my knowledge, there were several that were mounted on other rifles, and there were also a -- there was a shoebox found with just a guess approximately five additional riflescopes. THE COURT: nd as far those particular scopes, was there anything about -- significant about the type of scopes that they were or -- THE WITNESS: From what I've been told, they're expensive and of good technology. THE COURT: Okay. nd I thought I understood your testimony when you were on direct and you were saying that when you all observed Mr. Tijerina and several other individuals leave the club that they had the one rifle box that was -- or case -- was it a box or a case? THE WITNESS: It was a black plastic case. THE COURT: Okay. So they had the one that was consistent with the one that Mr. Gonzalez had purchased. nd did you indicate that he -- they also had appeared to have a second rifle case as well at that time? THE WITNESS: We did not see that transferred from car to car, but when the black case in question was carried into the house there was what appeared to be another rifle box carried into the house as well. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

26 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega 0 THE COURT: Okay. Was it -- so I'm just a little confused. So the rifle Mr. Gonzalez purchased, was that in like a plastic case, like a, you know, actual case? THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: nd the other would -- the other thing you saw, was that a box, like a cardboard box that you might have bought a firearm in, or was it also a second case it seemed? THE WITNESS: I was not present at the time that was transferred but -- THE COURT: Okay. THE WITNESS: -- my understanding is that it was more of like a box not a plastic case. THE COURT: Okay. nd as far as these. semiautomatic rifles, I mean, to your knowledge or experience and training, are those typically used in hunting? THE WITNESS: No, sir. THE COURT: Okay. That's all the questions I have. Was there anything else, Mr. Vega? MR. VEG: Yes, your Honor. You mentioned something I kind of -- I forgot to ask. FURTHER CROSS EXMINTION BY MR. VEG: Mr. Brown, actually, when you started talking to my client, you were asking him whether he had been in Fort Worth EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

27 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega or not; is that correct? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor, relevance. MR. VEG: Your Honor, it goes to -- you said he was going to Mexico, this individual, if I could just elaborate, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. You can go ahead. Right. Go ahead. BY MR. VEG: 0 While you -- did you ask him if he had been to Fort Worth? Yes, sir. Okay. nd that's because Mr. Gonzalez was telling you that my client was transporting these weapons to Fort Worth to sell? Not from his own knowledge. He had stated that Mr. Tijerina had told him previously that all the guns that he was purchasing for him and other people were purchasing for him he was transporting to Fort Worth, Texas to sell. Okay. This is what Mr. Gonzalez is telling you, right? He said that's what Mr. Tijerina had stated. Okay. But that's what Mr. Gonzalez is telling you. Yes, sir. Okay. nd he has no other witnesses to this, right? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor. THE COURT: Right. That's sustained. There's no point in that. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

28 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega BY MR. VEG: know. Has anybody else told you that? MS. REESE: Objection, your Honor. THE COURT: Yeah. I mean, you can answer that if you THE WITNESS: No one else has told me that 0 personally. THE COURT: So Mr. Gonzalez said that Mr. Tijerina said that. So in other words, that was Mr. Tijerina's explanation to Mr. Gonzalez about why he was purchasing all these guns; is that right? THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. BY MR. VEG: Okay. Sir, and the large-caliber rifle that you saw, that was to -- my client told you that was to hunt bear, correct? He did not tell me that personally. I am not aware if he told someone else that. Okay. There were several agents there? Yes, sir. nd did he have a conversation to you about how much hunting he does? Not to me directly, but he did to gent Flores. Okay. nd he told him that he was -- they were getting a lease together, a hunting lease, with another gentleman? EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

29 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Brown - Cross / By Mr. Vega I believe he stated that. Okay. nd they talked about the hunting trip that he had made for bear and other large animals? I recall him talking about hunting trips, but I'm not sure 0 about the bear. MR. VEG: That's it, your Honor. MS. REESE: Nothing further, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you, sir. (Witness excused) THE COURT: Okay. nd, Mr. Vega, on the issue of probable cause, did you wish to make any argument on that at this time? MR. VEG: No, Judge. But I want to call Ms. Tijerina, your Honor. THE COURT: For the purposes of the bond determination or for probable cause? MR. VEG: For probable cause, Judge. THE COURT: Okay. MS. REESE: Your Honor, at this point, we would object. I believe that to the extent that Ms. Tijerina would give some sort of additional explanation, it would go to a defense that would be relevant at trial but not relevant to probable cause. I would submit to you the Government has established probable cause and there's no need to -- for additional testimony. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

30 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page 0 of 0 0 THE COURT: Right. MR. VEG: Judge, he was able to elaborate and talk about things that I can't even defend now. THE COURT: Right. Well, the Defendant -- MR. VEG: He told the Court about several weapons. THE COURT: The Defendant does have the right to call witnesses at a probable cause hearing. I mean, it's not done very often, but the Defendant has the right to do that. So we'll go ahead. nd then if there's specific objections to the actual testimony, then that could be addressed if there are any. So you can go ahead. MR. VEG: Yes, your Honor. nd also, can we -- at the same time, can I elaborate as to bond also? Or do you want us to stop and start again or -- THE COURT: Well, I mean, we might as well combine and just -- yeah. If you're going to have a witness that's also going to be relevant to the bond issue, we might as well address all of it at the same time so -- MR. VEG: Yes, your Honor. Your Honor, I'm going to call Ms. Tijerina to the stand. THE COURT: Okay. MR. VEG: She goes by Nancy Cano, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. MR. VEG: Even though -- and I'll explain once I get her on the stand. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

31 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Cano - Direct / By Mr. Vega THE COURT: Go on. Ma'am, if you would please raise your right hand. Okay. JUNIT INES CNO, DEFENDNT'S WITNESS, SWORN BY MR. VEG: THE COURT: Okay. Please have a seat. DIRECT EXMINTION 0 name? Ms. Tijerina, you -- could you please give us your legal Juanita Ines Cano. Okay. You go by Nancy? By Nancy. Okay. That's because your dad wanted to call you Juanita and -- My mother wanted to call me Nancy, so she continued to call me Nancy. Even though your dad got the birth -- that name on the birth certificate? Nancy is not on the birth certificate. Just -- It's Juanita -- Just Juanita. -- Ines Cano. Okay. THE INTERPRETER: Your Honor, if you could beg the witness to get closer, I can hardly hear her. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

32 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Cano - Direct / By Mr. Vega THE COURT: Right. If you could pull -- thank you, ma'am. BY MR. VEG: Ma'am, you -- as you heard gent Brown testify today, you were not -- he did not mention you as being anywhere at the club or at home during the time of arrest. Were you present? I was present -- 0 Okay. -- at my home. Okay. The day of the arrest, who drove Mr. Tijerina back from the club? I did. Okay. Mr. Brown didn't mention that. Why did you drive him back from the club? home. Because my husband was feeling sick, so I drove him back Okay. nd he made it sound like you got -- he got home with the weapons and they were there. Is that what happened that day? When we got home they went into my home, and the weapons were in my home. Okay. So they weren't -- he made it sound like they came home that day with the weapons, and that's when the agents came in. That's not correct. No, sir. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

33 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Cano - Direct / By Mr. Vega Okay. You actually -- did you go to the club and go pick up your husband because he wasn't feeling fine; is that what you said? I was at the club, and he told me if I could drive him home because he was feeling sick. you. nd when you get home, you notice that someone's following When I get home, we were driving up, parking, and I noticed several vehicles parking behind us. 0 Okay. nd as the agents approached the home, did they ask for permission to enter? No, not to me personally. Okay. To your husband? To my husband. Okay. nd did he show them all the weapons that he had? He pointed out where he had some weapons behind the sofa. Did they ask you if you had a weapon? No, sir. Okay. Did you tell them that you had one? I told Mr. Flores that I had a personal weapon. Okay. That's gent Bobby Flores? I believe his first name is Bobby, but Mr. Flores I know. Yes. Okay. nd you had just -- the reason that you have a weapon now is because -- or that you have it close to is because of what happened a few days prior; is that correct? EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

34 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Cano - Direct / By Mr. Vega Yes. I have a rental home right besides my home. Okay. nd there was a big drug case there. Okay. nd there was firearms too. nd you called the police department on that. I called Mcllen PD. nd you're the one who initiated the call, and they discovered the weapons and the drugs. 0 Yes, sir. Okay. nd you also told them that you had another rental home to the same gentleman. They went to that home and also found drugs and weapons. Yes, sir. MS. REESE: Your Honor, I would object to relevance. MR. VEG: I'm getting to it, your Honor. I'll be quick. THE COURT: Okay. She's already answered though, so go ahead. BY MR. VEG: MR. VEG: Yes, sir. Okay. Now, one of the weapons that they found at your house, can you tell us where that one came from? One of the weapons that I know when we arrived to the home was behind the sofa, and one of them was in the kitchen -- EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

35 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Cano - Direct / By Mr. Vega Okay. -- where the dishes go. Okay. nd that one came from where? The one that was in the dishes? Yes, ma'am. It was in the rental home that my husband had pulled out from there. Okay. nd that's after they had -- the police had done 0 all their inventory and cleaned up all the drugs and weapons. Evidently whoever you -- can you tell us who you hired to clean the house? Yes. I had a lady to help me to clean out the house -- Okay. -- of course, after me calling several times that I wanted to lease the home. So they told me to go ahead and get it ready to lease the home. Okay. nd all these things that she cleaned up, she put them in a bag? We put them in bags. So she put them in bags and they were taken out to the garage. nd that's where your husband claims he got one of the weapons? Yes. He was after some green big bags that were there, like, they were very sturdy bags used for hunting. So he kept on asking for those green bags, that he wanted the bags. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

36 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Cano - Direct / By Mr. Vega nd that was abandoned property that your renter left behind. That they had left and also, well, that Mcllen PD and their other departments that were there going through the home left. Okay. nd he told the gent Bobby Flores where he got the weapon, right? Yes, sir. nd -- 0 Okay. -- he also explained to him that the bags with the clothes were still in the garage -- Okay. -- that he had pulled out from that home. ll right. He told them that he fired that weapon and it was not a suppressor at all. Yes, sir. Okay. Now, you know that your husband likes to hunt, right? Yes. For -- we've been married for years, and he's always been a hunter. Okay. nd he has several weapons. He has several weapons. That he uses to go hunting. That he uses to go hunting, yes, sir. Okay. nd the only one that he told the agents was not EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

37 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Cano - Direct / By Mr. Vega his was the one in the black case. He told them there was one that was not his, and he told them that it belonged to a gentleman named Jesse. Okay. nd that weapon had been -- do you know when it got to your house? 0 No, sir. Okay. Did you ever see your husband open the case? No, sir. Did he tell you anything about the weapon? No, sir. Do you know what your husband was going to do with that weapon? He is getting several -- there are several people getting together for, like, hunting guides. nd he had been going for the past -- as of that day of the incident, that Friday, about two, three weeks more or less they were getting together. They were even making a contract for a ranch in Hargill or -- I can't pronounce the place there. But they were also doing, like, fishing guides and hunting guides. They wanted to start getting a business like that. Okay. But the individual that owns that weapon wanted to go hunting at this place? My husband mentioned that he wanted to go hunting, and he was going to charge him $,000 to go hunting. Okay. nd did he mention anything about putting a scope EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

38 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Cano - Direct / By Mr. Vega on that weapon? My husband mentioned that he was going to put a scope, and he was going to charge him $00 to put a scope. Okay. nd do you know if Jesse told that to anybody else about putting a scope on a weapon? 0 There is one gentleman in particular. Okay. Yes, sir. Is there -- could be more? No, sir, not that I know of. Okay. nd does that include your son also? My son and a friend of his overheard, but they were not in, like, in the conversation with this gentleman, Jesse. Okay. nd I guess from what you know of the case, it was not your husband who went to the truck and put that weapon in the truck, right? No, sir. It was my son, his friend, Victor, and Jesse. ll right. Your son -- I mean, your husband works at the club during the day? Yes. He does the maintenance in the pool. Okay. But he does acknowledge that he was going to do something with the weapon, put a scope on it, right? Who? Your husband. Yes, sir. EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

39 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of Cano - Direct / By Mr. Vega He's not trying to hide that at all. No. He told Mr. Flores that day -- that evening -- Okay. -- that that was the purpose of the rifle. Yes. Now, ma'am, concerning bond, here in the courtroom today we have three of Mr. Tijerina's sisters; is that correct? 0 Yes, sir. ll right. nd one of them is an attorney in Mexico? Yes, sir. Okay. nd but we do have one that lives here in the United States that can act as a cosuretor? Yes, sir. Okay. nd you have also two rental properties that you weren't able to use as a bond; is that correct? One of them they were going to use as bond. The second one they were not going to be able to use because it was under both my husband and my name. Okay. But if you can, you would convey all your properties to the Court so -- even your home -- so your husband could remain out on bond; is that correct? Yes, sir. ll right. nd we also turned over to the Court several letters concerning your husband's medical history. Yes, sir. Can you tell us concerning his heart and the anxiety EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

40 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page 0 of Cano - Direct / By Mr. Vega 0 problems how much work your husband has had done on him? Yes, sir. He's had six strokes and two heart attacks. Okay. nd he's been on medication for the past four years. Okay. Does he have a stint? He has a stint in his heart, yes, sir. Okay. nd this is something that he has to do every day, he has to check his blood for his diabetes? 0 Blood pressure and diabetes. Blood pressure. Okay. nd plus take his heart medication. Heart medication, high blood pressure, cholesterol, anxiety, the diabetes. nd the day of his arrest, in fact, you had to go drive him home because he wasn't feeling well. Yes. He had been working in the pool, and the sun, you know, just made him feel sick. So I drove him home. MR. VEG: Okay. I'll pass the witness, Judge. THE COURT: Okay. MS. REESE: Nothing for this witness. We'd ask for a ruling, your Honor. THE COURT: Okay. nd, ma'am, I did want to ask you a few things. I understand that you all have some property that you were willing to perhaps place as security in connection with a possible bond -- EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

41 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: -- in your husband's case. nd the information that was obtained by the Pretrial Services officer reflects that I guess you all have -- well, between you and your husband you have several different rental homes; is that correct? I guess one is owned by both of you, and then you also have a lot that's owned by both of you; is that correct? THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: nd just starting with those, I guess those are both on East Laurel venue. When did you obtain those properties on East Laurel, do you recall? THE WITNESS: The properties themselves were obtained I would say about six years ago. They were first properties, and then we built two homes on two properties, which is East Laurel and East Laurel. THE COURT: and, okay. So on both of those lots or properties you all built houses on there or -- THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Okay. nd they're being rented now, is that -- THE WITNESS: One of them is my home. THE COURT: Okay. THE WITNESS: nd the second one is -- actually, that's the home that had that problem that I called in Mcllen PD. So they allowed me to go ahead and rent the home about EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

42 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 three weeks ago. So I put up the rent sign already. THE COURT: Okay. nd so those properties, do you all -- you don't owe anything, you don't have any loans on those properties? THE WITNESS: No, sir. THE COURT: So your home you own outright as well as the Laurel property that has a home on it also, and you own those outright; is that correct? THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: nd so when you bought those, that was several years back I guess; is that -- THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: Okay. nd do you remember about when you put the buildings on those or the homes on these? THE WITNESS: It was I would say about four years ago, sir. THE COURT: Okay. nd so were you -- as far as did you have contractors do that for you I guess that you all made arrangements with? THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: nd were you able to pay them in cash or pay them outright or did you have a loan that you've been able to pay off or how did you arrange that? THE WITNESS: We used one of the properties to build like collateral. ctually, they first started one, and then EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

43 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 the second one we both used like collateral with the construction with the builder. nd the builder didn't go through finishing building the homes. We had problems that he was, like, stealing money. So we had to individually start it -- myself, I started to hire people. His own people that was working on the construction -- THE COURT: Right. THE WITNESS: -- stayed there to finish the homes, and I was paying them as they were finishing. THE COURT: Okay. nd then so that's two. nd then is there -- there is also a lot at East Laurel as well, is that correct, that's just -- THE WITNESS: That is correct, sir. THE COURT: -- an empty lot right now? Okay. nd you all own that outright also. You don't have any loans on that or anything? THE WITNESS: No, sir. The three properties were purchased, and they were financed through the bank. When we finished paying them, we started building. THE COURT: Okay. nd then the other two rental homes I guess on North Second and North Sixth, those are I guess the ones that are in your name; is that correct? THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: nd as far as those, how long have you owned those two homes? EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

44 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 THE WITNESS: The on Sixth Street, I've owned that one for -- my son is -- for about years, years. THE COURT: Okay. nd as far as the other one on -- is it North Second and a Half Street? Is that the name of the street? THE WITNESS: North Second and a Half Street. THE COURT: That's an interesting one. s far -- how long have you owned that one? THE WITNESS: That one I've owned for two years I believe. THE COURT: Okay. nd so you purchased that just by yourself or in your own name a couple years ago? THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: nd on either of those, is there any kind of a loan or anything like that, or do you all own -- or do you own those outright or -- THE WITNESS: 0 there's a lien right now. THE COURT: Okay. That's the Sixth Street one. THE WITNESS: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: nd but the other one that you bought I guess -- THE WITNESS: That does not have a lien. THE COURT: -- two years ago, there's no lien on that. nd then also, I'm just trying to understand. From the information from Pretrial Services, I guess I'm getting a EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

45 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 little confused because there is some discussion here about Klub Infinity. Do you all own that or do you run that or how does that work? THE WITNESS: No. We are in the process of buying the property. THE COURT: Is that the same thing as Los Palmas or -- THE WITNESS: Las Palmas, yes, sir. THE COURT: Okay. So -- THE WITNESS: It's in foreclosure right now. THE COURT: Okay. So Klub Infinity and Las Palmas are the same -- THE WITNESS: Yes, sir. THE COURT: -- business. Okay. That's what I was confused about. nd then you also -- do you have another business as well that -- THE WITNESS: Yes, I do, Exotic Hair Studio. It's a hair salon. THE COURT: nd how long have you had that business? THE WITNESS: For two years. THE COURT: nd as far as that business, do you actually work there or do you have somebody else that manages that for you or -- THE WITNESS: I worked the first year of the business, and after that we -- I started getting involved in EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

46 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 Las Palmas, Klub Infinity. THE COURT: Okay. Okay. nd is -- the home that you all live in, that's solely in your name; is that correct, the -- THE WITNESS: The, I don't remember if it -- the property was both our names. THE COURT: Okay. Is there any reason it would be solely in your name if you all are both living there or -- THE WITNESS: Well, it was the property. When -- the property was originally ours, and then we sold it to get some money to start building the first home, which is. nd then the gentleman puts up a sign that he's selling the property, so then I was interested in the property again. So I started negotiating with the gentleman to sell back the property. THE COURT: Okay. Ma'am, I normally -- I mean, I should apologize in advance for even asking these questions. Normally, these are your personal affairs, of course. nd the only reason any of this is coming out here or that I've asked about it is that I understand that you all have suggested using some of this property as security for a bond, and so that's the only reason that I'm asking about these things. But just in general, you all have, you know, accumulated a lot of properties that have a lot of value with very little liability or liens or anything like that. I'm just wondering, I mean, how you were able to get to the point where EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC

47 Case :0-cr-000 Document Filed in TXSD on 0// Page of 0 you could generate that much income to be able to purchase all these different properties. I'm just trying to figure out from the information from Pretrial Services. I know your husband has done -- I guess he was doing some kind of import-export work or selling security systems. Maybe that was related to that. But how was it you were able to start purchasing these things? I mean, most people aren't able to accumulate this kind of, you know, property that has this kind of value. THE WITNESS: The first one, which is the one on Sixth Street, that one we had a lawsuit and we got some money paid there on that house. So after paying a mortgage for years, we paid the remaining balance on that home. nd then that money that was left we used to start building the first home on, and then that was the time of the sale of the properties. The properties, we didn't have any liens on the properties because we had been financing the properties. I would say about four or five years they were financed through the bank. nd the home on Two and a Half, that home, I got it for -- the lady was losing her property for taxes, so I got that home for 0,000. I used Sixth Street to borrow or have a lien on Sixth Street to pay some of the money on Two and a Half. THE COURT: nd then -- okay. But since then you've EXCEPTIONL REPORTING SERVICES, INC