.. ORALDUH N KAT./DKT.SUT. 0A20. This witness appears to be a formidable witness* in. the sense that his notes read intelligibly and he has

Transcription

1 .. ORALDUH N KAT./DKT.SUT. 0A20. This witness appears to be a formidable witness* in the sense that his notes read intelligibly and he has recorded a number of statements at meetings which either directly or by implication contain calls for violence, etc. It is apparent, however, that the witness only records a fract on of what is said at meetings (This may account for the fact that his recording reads s> well and so intelligibly). It is ass also clear that the witness takes It upon himself to record what he considers important *»nd to omit that which he does not think is important. lie has admitted in x-examinati m- (a). That he cannot remember and his notes do not indicate what language was used at meetings and whether the speeches were interpreted* (b). That when a speech is nade in Xosa he translates it himself into En lish. (c). That he records less than half of what is said - that he leaves out whole sentences ai does not indicate in his notes when he does so. He leaves out complicated sentences. (p.4409, (V.23) and p (V.23). (d). That Xoaa language contains rcany fl ures of speeoh that are idiomatic, and taat when a speaker so uses such a figure of speech he writes dten exactly vhat is said instead of giving it its true meaning. (P. 4411, V.23). He % s also that Xosa language contains some complicated and obscure "thoughjta and expreeelone" (P V.23). He/...

2 He leoves out sentences or expressions vhich he does not understand. (p V.23). 3ee J. Jack, (p. 4304, V.25). when he complains Jhat one cannot adequately translate from Xosa into English. (e). That he is not an expert in translating from Xosa into English, (p. 4413» V.?3). (f). That portions of his notes do not make sense. ( p. 4413, V.23). This witness testifies to 16 meetings - all of them in the rastern ^ape - Korsten - k striking feature of his evidence is the number of speeches that he has recorded which contain direot or implied reference to the need for or the expectation of violence, - and the remarkably few quotations to be founf in his notes in which the use of violenc is repudiated. 1 do not think 'hat this criticism can be answered by suggesting that the speakers in the Hast Cape are perhaps more hot-headed and given to the advocacy of the use of violence as the witness 3ogoni has also reported the Eastern Cape - both at Korsten and Veeplaas - and he readily concedes that speeches there consistently advocated a non-violent struggle. This peculiar feature in the witness's evidence is perhaps accounted for by, and is consistent i th v the fact hat he quite obviously records only that which he thinks important - see Ex. G. 550 and Bx and that therefore as a police officer he is on the lookout for material that is incriminating so far as the speakers are concerned, and oes not record that which might help any of the speakers in their defence if they were to be prosecuted. It might be necessary to x-examine along thes<- lines. I/...

3 - 3 - I think immediate stops should be taken to consult with a Xosa linguist and ascertain from him whether some of the more violent speeches recorded by the witness and evidently made in the Xosa language, are not capable of other and more innocuous interpretations. ;N 9t 341* Lasted 3 hrs, recorded on 2i pages of doublespaced type. (3ee x. G. 5*9). ee x-examin tion on pp to 4415 (V.23) t re "starting a fire". 34? ; Jjasted 2i hrs, recorded on 1 page of singlespaced type. Witness evidently selects what he considers of importance, and leaves out matter which to him seems unimportant. 3ee "Nothing of importance". "The C.Q.P. is not based on bloodshed". This sentence is inserted without it appearing that anytning led up to it. (Cross-examine on this). fleeting No. 343: "The reason why we have not caused the blood to flow ie because God has not wish* d It yet but the day is coming when ee shall fight with our bare hands", (p. 4404, V.23) Thys, (H.A.). Meeting lasted 2{ hrs, recorded in 33 lines. i\uoh must have been omitted. Perhaps the words, "if we are assaulted or attacked". rtgettag No f?44» "If what ha ened in '52 at,ew Brighton happens It wu; not \}c- oqy fault - we aye fiolyy* t?

4 - 4 - fight for our country". (p. 4405, V.23). Matibula. keeting lasted 2} hrs, recorded in 62 lines, fleeting So. 345: "' e don«t fifiht with reyolvgrg, byt we juttf kj,34 thfib vlth KiQTiQB (referring to the ugtoe) M M 1 am not afraid to dig" (p. 4407, V.23). Nat. Female. aeeting la ted hrs, recorded in 55 lines The speaker may have said, "We just kill them with kieries if they attack us" The witness, it appears, would condede that he may have omitted such words. lieqtiqfl No, One J. K.oya states "Should the Europeans resort to violence against us we will hit back", (p. 4302, V.25). Meeting flo. 398* A ep eech at this meeting is quoyed by Firow, (see Coaker's memo, p. 48 A 57 for comments thereon). The speech is on p (V.25). See x-examination of witness when he states he gave evidence against Mayekiso (113) that he was given a test at the trial in regard to his ability in reporting speeches, and that "ayekiso was acquitted* Meeting flo. 399: Statement re "non-violence" was made at this meeting, See p«4808, (V.25). Meeting 400 & 401: The theme is repeatedly expressed at these We

5 -5- two meetings that the Afrloans expect to be attacked by the Europeans armed with guns and other weapons but that although they want to live in peace in Africa they will not give up their struggle for freedom but will retaliate and figftt back if they are so attacked - See pp. 4812, 4813A, 4814, V.25. unless the Crown puts in these two meetings or refers to them at the trial it would be as well if no reference is made thereto by the defence in x>exauination iu f etliif fro, 40?: Per Kdiinba (119), "I ai poal to the oppressed Leo^Ie to believe in communism system. The Coisaunist Govt, ia doing what the people said" (p. 4315, V.25). "Let us ovc forward to freedom, tat demand 9UT country fry forge aitf yolupt to fr a V iffftnw^ons are given to volunteers t«kill. they -;uet kill", (p. 4816, V.25). In the absence of instructions 'rom l.dimba, I am not ftble to suggest any line of x-exaafcation in regard to the above extract froa his speech. Reference was made thereto by Adv. iirow at P.K. (See Coaker(s memo, p. 41). I believe the word "kill" means something different in Xosa. For an sample of scrappy reporting, where the witness just picks out sentences and strings them together without the onehaving any relation to the next, see p (V.25). vanga*s speech (25) 6/...

6 - 6 - iee^ln^ 405- A speech by Resha (63) at p. 4320, was referred to by liro*. (Zee Goaker's me;ao, p, 56), 3ee also the x-exaaiinati m of the witness earlier at pp. 4411,2 A3, (V.23) in regar to his translation of Xosa figures of speech and his understanding thereof, Reaha is rej orted to have said At this meeting, 2 iqy to.."start ftrgb" - yhfteysr'starts a m! iiti not 11 burnt"» This? contains a speech by ftkalipi $116) in which he alleges that he had been to Court to listen to the case against ftdimba and that at the trial Ndimba was alleged to have said things that he, the speaker - had n ver heard him say at meetings. Instructions should be obtained in regard to this trial in order: (a) to ascertain ±he result thereof, (b) who the witnesses were, (c) the nature of the charge, as it is perhaps possible that material might be forthcoming on which Gazo can be x-excunined. See also Meeting Ho. 398* Instructions should also be obtained in regard to the trial of liter Mayekiso at wiiieh Gazo gave evidence* At this meeting also, the Chairman Mkalipi (116) later made some statements which can only mean that bloodshed is anticipated before liberation is obtained - See p» 4822, (V.25) and that it is expected that blood will flow after the C.O.f. iiurprisingly Pirow made no reference to this speech

7 - 7 - at the P.;., which probably goes further than moat speeches relied upon by him. instruct! one must be obtained in order to enable Counsel to x-examine thereon. Kg^nfi 407: At this meeting J, Jack (104) is reported as saving "The day is still coding hen the Africans will fight the Dutch ceople by any means they choose!; but see the theme expressed in speech by next speaker, ) p.4823, (V.25). x Instructions are a^ain required. Contains a call for non-violence by Vanga (1251 p (V.25). RE HQH- VIOLENCE. BTC. J. JACK (104). "The Conpreca of the People is not ba. ed on i'iatibqla bloodshed". Sx. a (Ji.A. "Our organisation does not stand for Africans only as it is said but for d.1 races in this country. Unless the world is free and eople can be free nobody can be happy. I want everybody to know we do not fight, but the Afrikana (want) to take ver the Govt. (p.4808, V.25). KKALIPI (116). "When we demand equal rights, we are called Co. isunists. 3wart and his C.I.D.are liars". p. 4351, (V.25). V<iMAt (125). M We are not chasing the 3 ropeans away...we

8 - 8 - we don*t believe in bloodshed, we want to live in peace with te Europeans...Why not leave the Dutch people alone. Tou should leave their work. You should not go to work. (p V.25h MSMM* (H.A. "We want peace we don't believe in bloodshed... We are going to fight in this country and overseas if neceaeary. The Africans oust form Trade Unions and the A.N.C. can do nothing unless united." (Ex ). aumi' "We must not worry about the Dutch people. They have no brains, they beliove in force...*. Ex. G. *ki 632.

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