THE WITNESS, warned ART CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, THE LAW OF FORMULA RITE.

Transcription

1 THE WITNESS, warned ART CODE OF CRIMINAL PROCEDURE, THE LAW OF FORMULA RITE. GENERAL ': Patrick Diya Lumumba, born in (inc.) In the Democratic Republic of Congo 5 May Prosecutor can examine. We acknowledge that... President. (Roughly translated by Google Translate) Yes, it was called his method? It has been defined has no ongoing cases, no, there was storage. Defined, yes, yes. He is assisted by his lawyer. We acknowledge that except the last hearing he attended all the hearings, including preliminary hearings Mr. President and Civil Party of course. It is recognized that she witnessed... She has attended all the hearings, I think maybe some... Yes, almost all. Yes except for a few, in fact. He attended almost the entire debate which until today was held with the possible exception of a hearing. Being Civil Party Mr. President I wish you would give this place also. I pray. Contents [ hide ] 1 Prosecution - Dr. Mignini 2 Defence - MR. Pacelli 3 Defence - MR. Maori 4 Defence - MR. Ghirga 5 Defense - AVV. Dalla Vedova

2 Prosecutor - Dr. Mignini Look, you knew Meredith Kercher? Here, on what occasion did you meet her, when? I met my former bar, because... when Amanda came to look for work, the first time they came, they were a group of girls that there was Meredith Kercher. And what time was this? I think... I do not remember, could be the last days of September, beginning of October, I do not remember. She was the owner of Pub 'Le Chic', right? Yes, I was the owner yes. Listen, and then those who presented Meredith? I met her through Amanda. By Amanda. And he never took her home? He never came out with Meredith? Never. Amanda has presented it to him because she knew, had known before Amanda before she met Meredith? I did not understand the question. That is, she told me that Meredith, Amanda presented it to him. But that means she knew Amanda before, prior to the incident? Sure. Of course yes. Why, she came to work in his pub, right?

3 Yes, I can almost say that I have known both in the sense that Amanda has come to look, she came to work. Right now they were in a group, but yet another time Amanda brought because there was a dinner inside the premises, and on this occasion she presented it to me. Listen, and how long Amanda has worked in the pub? About 1 month, one day more one day less, yes. And his work schedule which he was? She worked, came to her, to the pub every day? At the beginning, I can say, the first few days, type the first ten days came almost, almost every night, say three. So first, the first ten days we are... we are at the beginning of September, he said? End of September beginning of October, let's say the beginning of October, was almost every day and then... What time was it? Depends, usually the time was kind of depended days, no, because if the days of the weekend, you could be a little late because customers arrive a little 'later in the week and you could be a bit' before, because Customers are typically are students and are a bit 'before. Then, or nine, or by... 21? By 21, or 22. Around that time. She said that the first ten days or so, came every day? Then what was the rather... Then it changed this? Yes yes yes, then changed to say, were coming up Tuesday and Thursday, we established so the two of us. Then Tuesday and Thursday? And on Thursday yes. And what time was it? In this final state, no, on Tuesday - he said - and Thursday. At what time?

4 He was always so... The 22 or so at about the 21:30 hour there, especially 22, say. "Above all, the 22". It happened that... not that he could not come or that there was no need for his presence before. Apart from the incident of November 1, before this date there was a day when... she was not... it was not necessary for her to come and she warned her? No. It never happened. It never happened. No first, before we say, it happened, it happened kind episode that almost, kind of change the time to give the flyers, for it was also the advertising, and the first time as... Where this? It happened, but as I had the first time her phone number and then I talked to him through an Algerian friend who had brought him to me, who had introduced him to me. Who was this man? His name IUVA. So, I sent a message or called IUVA IUVA and said: "IUVA say Amanda this, this, this, this" so and then... And he informed? And she informed her yes. Listen, and she held that job, Amanda? Practically at the beginning when we agreed it was that she had to work more in local, do maid, and then a little 'advertising. And when I realized that I was good at the waitress, she was beginning to make more leaflets, advertising, and maid. There were other employees of the pub? Who was there? There was a Bulgarian girl, there was this guy...

5 He was called? Bistra, there was this guy named Algerian IUVA, there was a Polish girl named Magda, and... And were they, too, had the same time of Amanda? No no no, no, for example, the Bulgarian girl, was, she was more professional, so it was more, she... More often? As? More, he came every day? Not every day because even student, student say, that she was more like a maid base, because it was the most professional of all. But they were, then they were more often than Amanda, if I understand correctly? Yes, yes. Look, his relationship with Amanda as they were? My relationship, I know I had good relationship. It was always like this? That relationship between us as a person, or relationship as I employer? Both the one and the other. As a person, honestly, what I know, we've always had a good relationship, but what you as an employee after his way to work, I had to repeat the same things he had to do. Had some... He scolded occasionally? Had some... Have you had disagreements? No no no no. Did you happen to speak up, for example? No no no never, no no never, because even when it happens like this, after customers have gone and did not clean the table, I did a little 'thing... something that you should not do, I said, as if all this. I talked to all the staff together to say: you have to be careful, when customers leave, you have to fix. But to say to you directly, so, I never did.

6 And relations with Amanda Meredith, as they were? IS... She has knowledge or? No no. He does not know. I do not know, I knew they were friends, just friends. What, what, what corresponded to Amanda for his work? What gave her the money? 5 euro per hour as all pay in the center. Listen, and complained of this, the payment of these dues her? Not me, because I do, I know other owners of the premises, I know you pay well, I think that I, at least, because other, other owners when people do not work do not pay, but I always pay, I paid more. But you know, if she was complaining to someone?... With this, the Algerian who took her... IUVA? IUVA yes, in an episode so he said: "ah, look at that Amanda is not happy" and IUVA said that he recommended, he said "Amanda looks that no one can pay here like Patrick, Patrick always pays, others make problems "and I said to IUVA" if another time, she tells you that it is better not to recommend, it is better to let it go because, for me... When did this happen? I do not remember but I think it could be... maybe ten days, only one week before the end of October, but I do not remember very well, it was only an episode so. I understand. And listen, Raffaele Sollecito knows?

7 When did you meet him? I have always seen to establishment, when he came to look for Amanda. She remembers when she began to see the local? I do not remember, I think it can be ten days before the end of the month, one day before or one day less but I do not remember. How many times has seen in the pub along with Amanda? I do not remember but I think I can remember three times, I remember three times. Since when? From the first time I saw him, I remember three times. "Three times". So, it is roughly ten days? I think so, but I'm not sure. I understand. Look, Rudy Guede Erman knows? No. No one has ever seen? No ever seen, is a bit 'too much because once a local I... You came? No no I do not know if it's him, once I served in local young African, it came as there were people and bought a drink, and as it was the first time I saw this face, and I asked this person, where you are. And he told me that it was the US His parents were South African, was a conversation of five seconds, but it seems to me that it could be him but I did not... I did not know for sure. But when she saw the pictures... She then saw photos of Rudy, no?

8 The he recognized? No, no, no, because according to this, when I saw these pictures, in this way, that I began to think, but this is the one guy I saw but not so sure it's him. Look, that night when he came this guy was black? Yes yes yes yes. That evening there was Amanda? I do not know. I do not know if it was a night that Amanda was working I do not know, I do not remember. Look, on the evening of Wednesday, October 31, His pub was open? Do you remember who came to you? Who was there? Who was there? People... That night, the night of Halloween. Halloween yes. No, but there were so many people who, for example, those who work with me or... Here, Amanda was there? Yes Yes Yes Yes I saw, I saw Amanda. And then when he's gone I do not know. What time saw her? I really do not remember. I do not... I can not locate it well because I remember, the Bulgarian girl working, and asked me, he said "I saw Amanda and is looking for", and then I was upstairs, I went down and I asked: "Do you want a drink," I remember well, he wanted a glass of red wine, and I had served the wine, and then I was there, because it came some two SIAE, as well, and I was talking to these people then not after... no... I have not seen.

9 But her, but Amanda was alone? I, when I saw in there but I did not know if it came with someone or not. You mentioned, however, spoke with Amanda? Yes, sure, sure. She remembers how she was dressed? I do not remember. I remember just a little 'trick seemed, seemed a trick like a cat, so. "As a cat"? Yes, yes. Listen, and roughly the time does not remember? It was late afternoon, it was evening? No, it was in the evening, it was evening. "It was in the evening." To say it was after... could be so after 22. "After 22" so it was late evening? It seems to me, yes, it had to be after 22 yes. Did you see her with the speaker that night? No, no... it's a bit 'hard for me, I do not remember if. And now that he has lost sight of, what time did you leave? I can say, or? It's a little 'difficult, but I can assure you that since midnight and a bit' and I think that was gone. Then she saw her hand, after 22? After 22 yes. Look, we get to the afternoon of the first, the day after. Yes, Thursday yes. That afternoon she, when she goes to the pub that afternoon?

10 I arrived at the pub, really I do not remember, to be more or less, like 5:30 or 6, as well / / 18. Anyway before I go on, on the evening of October 31, there were many people said? Was... There were many people from the beginning of the evening practice, or? No no no, people are gradually why I say, well, when I say: I saw Amanda, may be around 22 because I remembered until 21.30, I could imagine those who were there, there were not so many people. I understand. She went on the afternoon of 1 goes into the pub at around / / 18 yes. It was the time when, the time at which she was usually at the Pub, right? Yes, yes. Here, tonight, Amanda was to come? Why was it Thursday? Then Tuesday and Thursday? And on Thursday yes. So the night before Amanda was on duty? No, it was Tuesday. But it was that night so had to come first? Here, Amanda was that night?

11 No. It did not come. It explain how, what happened? What happened is that often, the day of Sunday working alone, because they are always a few customers for the costs, because otherwise you pay the staff and there are so many people, and should not, when I, when I was at the local, I realized there, because even if it's Thursday, but is November 1, the Day of the Dead, and then I thought that leaving Amanda to come up to the room and then see if there are customers tell her of go back, for me, I thought it will be, no, kind, on my part. Then I thought: maybe she could get her to do and agreed to send a text message, and I write a text message to her. Sent, in that now this? It could be perhaps around eight and a quarter / eight twenty, so. Look, she sent him with his cell phone? With my cell phone does. The user what is? The one he had at the time? 338/ Yes. Here, in his cell he was not found traces of this SMS. Why, can you explain? No, I think that just for the only reason why the phone that I have it, if I send an SMS to a person, and this is... when I try to send an SMS message to another person, I find myself in front of the SMS I sent before. So, I have to send clear, to find it so I did not have to send an SMS to anyone. So you after sending the SMS, the canceled? No no no not that I... When I sent another SMS... Ah, well, that is, she has sent more SMS that night? And so you have deleted this here? That before, yes.

12 The one before. Was an option the phone, as it was? Yes yes the phone is so, if I send an SMS to her and after I have to send another SMS to someone else, when I want to write another SMS I have to erase what I sent her to send another SMS. That is, and what he wrote in the SMS? I write: "Hello Amanda, today is like a Sunday, there will be so many people, you do not come tonight come on Tuesday." In Italian? In Italian, yes. And Amanda answered? When did he say? Could be maybe ten minutes later, a quarter of an hour later, I do not remember. Then around 2 00:30 about? Yes yes, / 20:35, I do not remember. As Amanda said? But something said, "Sure, see you later" or perhaps "see you later" something like that. In Italian? In Italian yes, yes and good evening. It can show the witness if this is the message screen. I do not know if it is produced, I think, this is the screen... Yes, yes it is produced. And then what happened? Here, "see you later" "see you later" no?

13 That is, you had a date? As... No no no but we had the appointment. Why he said, replied that? I do not know, but I thought, maybe people with native English "see you later" could be translated as "see you later" I thought so, but... Yes, that was... Off microphone. Yes yes go ahead. Yes, I thought so, that could be something like that, but anyway... And that "something like" that means? Which means "something so" that is an expression in English? As an expression to say "see you later" as see you later, and then for me it was not so important to understand, my co... My main thing was that she should not come, I do not have to spend money not at all, no customer. Look, she had met Amanda, in the evening? I do not know, you had met after dinner, there were never appointments between her and Amanda? No. "No". Then what happened? Go ahead with... So she comes home, what time he came home that night? That night? I think... I'm coming... I do not remember but I think I got home, more or less, to the one forty-five / two, the two later I was already at home. Here, then what? I found that the... that my partner was sleeping and baby woke up and I was a little with the baby and then we went to sleep. When he learned of the crime?

14 Late Friday, to maybe six / six thirty, half past six / seven so the Pub. "At the Pub". Friday so 2? November 2. He got to talk to Amanda? On the phone, yes. Here, tonight? Friday, yes yes. "By Friday". I just knew I had to call to check if the news was true or not. And where did he find her? She told her where he was? Yes, because it came two American friends, an African-American, Exsidas, and an Italian-American, Catrin, and they came and entered the pub, they told me: "Patrick you heard she died her friend Amanda, the English, who lived with her, "and I've asked them," but that seems a bit 'Indian' as well. And they said: "Yes." I said: "But who told you that, right?" they said, "we heard." I thought maybe a legend so underground. I said, "you have asked Amanda if... You called Amanda to find out if it's true?" and they said: "we have no phone number of Amanda" and I said: "I have it I Call" and I took the phone and I called Amanda. What about now? I do not remember, could be perhaps 19 or 18:30, I do not remember. And Amanda said that, exactly? I phoned and I said "Amanda is true that your friend, the English one, is dead? She told me:" it is true "and she immediately said:" I can not talk now because I'm with the police "and then said "Oh, okay, sorry," and before I close the phone she asked me: "How did you know?", and I said: "We are here, Exsidas and Catrin, are two of them that I l 'they said. "And then I hung up.

15 But she spoke in Italian with Amanda? That evening, I say, you have spoken in Italian? Yes yes yes with the phone in Italian, yes. Look, you then saw or spoke again with Amanda and Raffaele with? No, Raffaele not, why Raffaele did not talk. Amanda, Amanda. Amanda I saw Monday at the University for foreigners. Here on Monday that it would be the fifth? Here, at what time you saw? It could be around 13 and a quarter, 13 and a half, but I do not remember. I remember that the output of the 13 students already, so I was there because I was expecting, the University for foreigners because I did Coordinator of Italian and foreign students and, therefore, the director of University phoned me in the morning, because wanted a student with native English, to talk to the BBC, and that the University for foreigners was afraid... because it's about a student who could speak ill of university for foreigners, and so I went there, I tried to contact some students, who did not want to part, because there who did not want to meet journalists, some people did not agree, because as the day before the University had refused to put the poster of mourning inside, and many were not happy, but we were there I saw Amanda pass and I had called. She called her? Yes Yes Yes. And what you said? No when I saw it, she crossed the road, went to meet the traffic light, and then I took him in front of Palazzo Gallenga University for foreigners, and then I said, "how are you", to tell after... all this as you are.and she complains... but a bit 'of the Police to say, said that "it was a long, long, long time with the Police, is really very tiring, tired" and I tried a little' to do Lawyer Police, saying "look what is normal for the police... is not magic, it is normal that there are these questions, and I think that to understand, no 'and so. And then after a while I talked to her, the responsibility for printing University for foreigners was a few meters away and makes me a sign to say: "But Patrick, this student with native English we find it or not?" and at this time I said: "Amanda like it, you

16 feel you talk to the press on behalf of the University for Foreigners, because they want students with native English speakers" and she said "I and my roommates've agreed that we should not talk to anybody. We should not call anyone "and she hugs me and tells me:" Patrick you're a good person, you helped me a lot, but you can call me whenever you want. " And then after I said "I have to go to my friend, I'm tired" and then she left. Look, but she asked about the death of Meredith? How did she die? No no no no. He does not asked him? No, because when I said "how are you?" I expected at this time and maybe this will tell me this, but I realized I did not want to talk, and my nature to understand that when a person does not want to talk about something I leave to lose. Look, then you have not spoken to... She has not spoken with Amanda. No no. Then it was... what happened? The day after. The next day I woke up, I do not remember if it was... but it was still a little dark outside, the baby woke up, my son, at that time he was a year and a half, and I took it, we went with him in the kitchen, I prepared milk, I gave him milk, and then I heard, someone knocked on the door and the sound was that the person was, really was behind the door, I thought maybe he could close, something well, because I put cartoon baby, and when one knocked the natural instinct, I turned down the volume right away, although it was a bit 'down and knocked a second time. I... I went to close the door and asked "who is it?", And I heard the voice of a woman, who said: "open the door" is like I have a security system on my door that opens a bit 'in half, I opened it, I saw very distinctive Police, who said: "Police, police, open the door" and as my son, every time someone knocks on the door, he is already, My son was there and I tried to say, "and there is a baby, wait a minute", but there was so much agitation: "open open", and I opened the door, but they were the police... they handcuffed me and then took me to the police station. She has been subjected, then, then, to stop? Here, it was... As has been treated by the police? It was manhandled? It was beaten? No, I was beaten but the situation was tough. In that sense, that is? Explain, it is clear it was a catch, so she was... No, because for example when I already did and the police took me so in front of a child, they handcuffed me. And they have not even told why. I tried to ask "but what happens, why?" I said, "You know what you

17 did." Even my partner, tried to ask them: "What, what...? What did he do?" they said, and they, "I know how I did it," I have found accounts (inc.) I am, are tropical but virtually without taking even a sweater, no, I was there, I was like that for, for a long time at the police station, I was cold, I tried to say that I'm cold if I can have a sweater, no one gave it to me. Look, it was still, I repeat, was beaten, beaten? Nobody beat me, but this situation so that even one... was not... yes, beaten anyone beat me but it was hard, the situation really was not, it was not good, yes. Look, you can tell me if Amanda was afraid of her? He had never shown fear of her? No, but... No, but I do not see why. There had been, there had been quarrels, confrontations, in recent times? Over... So, you described this meeting in this... but I say... There is opposition to this question has already been made previously, exactly the same situation if there had been clashes with Amanda, is a repeat. Not if... but Amanda was afraid of... that's another question, Lawyer, I wonder if it appears that Amanda was afraid of her. Honestly for me, I do not see why, because I had a good relationship with her. She is not short this. I do not know, yes, because it already even before university for foreigners hugged me, I think you can not hug a person who is afraid, at least I will not be able to do so. I have no other questions. Yes, please, defense. Lawyer Pacelli. Defence - MR. Pacelli Listen, Patrick, he has basically responded to almost all the questions in order to what had been the specification of PM it was to be made. But I would like you to answer two questions. Look, the fact that Amanda has referred to as the murderess of poor Meredith led the consequences? No, but I think... Off microphone. No, please take a little 'quiet please, President.

18 Yes, yes, please, please, Lawyer. Yes yes it is right, of course, please Lawyer. The question is this, Patrick responds, responds. No no I we have now, there I'm 39 years old, yes, and I've spent all my life, is not that... I am first arrested that I may have stolen a jam in the supermarket, but I do not happen at all, only to blow it I am accused I killed a person, and I raped a person and, therefore, that in itself is what... and then I come home, and I find myself in a section of isolation for three days, they can not talk to anyone, not I can take a shower, to me I came idea in mind because my father was a political, my, my father was taken and to this day we have no news, we can not prove if he is dead, we can not prove if my father is alive, and so... I have had this feeling that I could no longer hug my son, like what has happened, until now I hope that situation ends to me, because I so far if at night I have to go check if the child is still there, if my door is still closed and then. Look, I'd like just a moment that we reflect on this question. How old was she when she was kidnapped your father? I there I was about nine / ten years as well. She did see his father again? Anymore. So she does not know if his father is still alive or (inc.)? No, we do not know. Her when he found himself under arrest what he thought? He recovered, re-opened this wound? No, I really do, I hope that this situation will pass me, because so far it has not gone at all, I realize, sometimes, I think it is over but... sometimes when my friends invite me to dinner at home of them, the last time I think of it, I'm not going. Look, she is being treated for many months, Dr. Albrigo? She wakes us up to date even at night? What evidence, why? Why do I get the feeling that maybe I wake up in the morning and my son is gone, somebody took him away, I get this feeling.

19 And so it has the feeling of not see him again? Listen, one last question, she had the time of his arrest, ran the pub right? He also tried to reactivate the Pub, after his release and after the release from seizure of the premises? Yes yes yes, I've tried. And how did it end this affair, from the standpoint of economic and financial? It all fell apart because, when the premises were seized for, for three months, what practically on the paper three months, but a local after you reopen an office which is not that close to three months later, is, and opens office. But there were everything went wrong, and then take all of these things is not that the state says, "All right, for three months, you've been kidnapped, you do not have to pay the contributions, you do not have to pay anything" you had to pay all these things. And when I did not have anything in hand, to say that economically, when a company has no more, no more, no savings, no nothing to continue to fund the business, the business collapses. And then there's also the prejudices of the people, if there are many clubs because I have to go to one that has been... He was arrested? He was under investigation for murder, it is safer to go to another part. I put myself in the shoes of the customer, perhaps even in their place I will do the same thing. Look at the time, in November, his family who had composed, Patrick? We were three people. His partner and son? Yes yes we were three people. Currently, and it is the last question President, is unemployed? How does he live? I lost everything, no... I enjoy spending time writing music. Thank you, Mr. President, I have no further questions. Defence - MR. Maori

20 Lumumba, her first, responding to the public prosecutor said that he saw Raffaele Sollecito around three times. Yes, what I remember, yes, yes. Here, in that occasion you saw? The first time, it seems to me, he was accompanied by two or three other guys, I remember why were seated, when and as you enter there is a table which is diagonal with the counter. He saw always within his Pub? Yes yes yes yes yes... they were there. Then? Ah, wants to know... other times it was always in the pub, yes. And what was he doing? That other time, some other time has arrived and then later, a few minutes so kind Amanda told me: "Ah Patrick today, as there are so many customers, I can go," and I said "yes" and then went Street. And another time there was two guys from South America who were always there to local, one asked me to Amanda and I said: "I know that He loves..." asked me to say, "but who is with the maid, the American. "and I remembered that she often spoke of a boy who was in the United States. I said "ah, but you know that guy United States" and then I saw that, Latin American talking with Amanda and then also with Raffaele. And then after he came, he said: "Ah, but together with the Italian, they told me." And how he behaved? As a regular customer? I Raffaele, gave me the impression of a person who comes from a family, a good family, and I am one, and too many... We in Congo is said: "the money in your pocket do not speak" and then when I speak: "good family" I mean to say a good education, gave me the impression of a person with good manners. Can you explain what he was doing to believe, her, Raffaele Sollecito a person of good manners? Yes, because it enters, greets, and then is not agitated, he smiles and then is quiet, so, and then gets up and walks away, because we know in Pubs not, how they behave. So it's a person who was different than the other... Patrons of the pub.

21 Then he got good education. Yes, what to me seemed. Sure. Let's go back then, again, the question of the Public Prosecutor. The prosecutor told her, asked her if she was ill-treated at the time of his arrest. Yes, he asked me yes. And she responded in a certain way, can repeat it? I told no one beat me, but the station was not fun. Responded the President, it is a question already placed. Yes, maybe... There are aspects. I would like to point out to the gentleman Lumumba, could not remember very well that in the course of an interview, made after... There is opposition, Mr. President interviews are not acts of investigation, there is an opposition prior to this point of view it is not possible parametrarsi, journalists write what they want... Lawyer we intended, sorry Lawyer... (Inc. for overlapping voice.) There is opposition to this type of question, President. Sorry, we avoid her voice maybe one above the other. Sorry... There are the minutes. The wording of the question which mail is not admissible because it invites the witness to repeat what has already been said, so it is quite... If there is demand that wants to highlight aspects were not displayed properly. The rephrase otherwise. Please, Lawyer. Remember, Mr. Lumumba, to have had a meeting with the broadcaster, it seems to me, English or American, English, and in the course of this meeting, then after that was televised, she claimed to have been beaten by the police.

22 Mr. President there is opposition. There is also opposition by the PM. Sorry, one at a time. Before the PM Is not that... you can not make the complaints on the basis of interviews. I have not made any objection. Excuse me, excuse me please, Lawyer, however, asked the question we hear the opposition and then we will determine about. Please Lawyer. Attorney Maori patron Sollecito is cross-examination Mr. President. Exactly. Given this discussion questions in cross-examination, which should focus on the questions posed correctly, I mean, by the public prosecutor, however, should also be subject to verbal and specific situations.now, with regard to questions of journalists' sources, it seems to me that it has no relief. The fact that dozens of newspapers, I do because, then, I guess there will be other types of disputes need to, maybe in that sense I would avoid it, take action, many times, saying, changing, expanding, correlating with cutting, sewing of interpretation can not be the subject of questions in dispute, because this is not provided by the Code. On the question of defense of the lawyer Raffaele Sollecito it is noted that in cross-examination you can also ask leading questions, that the behavior that the witness would suffer was already under review and, therefore, in cross-examination may be asked questions about, not I think that the real question of a dispute statements as if the statements that she... So, she recalls having made statements to the press, in the media? Yes, but not as the press had written. Here, she recalls, the lawyer said that she would have said they had no reports of threats... Mistreatment. Here mistreatment. Here, what do you remember of reporting? No, I said that the situation was not, was not, it was funny because at one point, they removed my clothes, I was naked. That is, excuse me, "I have taken off the clothes" before she said it was short, light dress, called for a sweater and he has not been given. Of course yes.

23 That is, take off your clothes would be a different thing. How did it go? That is, she had light clothing since it was submitted to the firm. He asked a sweater and he has not been given, or the clothes that had been taken off him? Yes, at some point, yes, for a while 'two, two or three agents, I do not remember, were with me in a room, they told me to take off your clothes, I was a little'... I was naked for a bit 'of time, looking at the wall, and the window was open. I said this, but I did not say that they beat me, because no one beat me. I pray. I have not spoken to beat I said mistreatment. So she said yes to my question. He responded as he responded, Lawyer. Let us not make the translation or comment. He responded how he responded. Yes please. Yes, we are the answers that the witness... Off microphone. (Inc. By superimposing voice). Sorry, sorry. But please avoid translations or comments, the answers that the witness gives, there will be time for the responses to be made subject to assessment in the discussion, but to the state we are in what the witness says. Sure. A last question. When the police arrived at his home, and has taken, and explained well to the request of the Public Ministry, they were asked, the police and those who came to stop it, why which she was brought to the police station? No. Thank you. There are questions, please Lawyer. Defence - MR. Ghirga LG: One question, defense of Amanda Knox. You mentioned contributions, it represented his troubled period of the reopening, she paid the contributions on the compensation for Amanda or girls? Says three months is a long, run, you have to pay the contributions. This word contributions that meant? He said contributions.

24 Yes yes he referred. LG: It is only because there has been talk of giving me... No to Amanda not, because Amanda had started, it was not... LG: Amanda not. Let finish. It was not in compliance. Please continue as well. No, I mean... I speak for all of the contributions that a local pay various fees, but not for Amanda because Amanda had an employment contract, had just begun. LG: In fact, then it will be a matter of allegation by the defender, but if I ask her economic situation say the November 1, 2007, the management was active? He had a positive balance? Business, quotes, going well? Here, if you want to... then. They will attach much everything but... Yes, please. LG: As he spoke of the damage, I have to ask all the little things, as was his job? The Pub until 1 November 2007, as he was going? No, no, but I think that... Mr. President, we on our local is the inside, it's like someone who has a kiosk on the beach and you ask how it was in January or February, and during the winter no one goes on the beach and, therefore, it is automatically the same as us. Us having a room opposite of the summer, so are places where customers come in cold weather, before beginning to warm, but the business was fine gradually grew. Maybe you can give indications of income, perhaps gain, on average monthly that she could get? This I can not say now, knows the accountant. LG: Okay, thanks. I pray. Defence - MR. Dalla Vedova Look, Lumumba, wanted some clarification on the morning of November 6, she told...

25 She said that they came to his house... November 6? Tuesday. 6 November But on November 6, Tuesday, that is in the morning when I have taken. Exactly yes, 6 November Yes, yes. She said that she was home, and it was dark, and was feeding her son. It was still dark outside yes, yes, yes. So more or less what time it was? Actually I do not remember but... The four, five? Maybe you are, but really, honestly do not remember well, the only thing I remember that I did not open the door right away, because I saw outside, it was still dark, we were up at dawn so something. Look, how many people came that morning to his house? Do you remember? I really do not remember, were many. But ten? Perhaps, also, yes. Maybe. Look, someone introduced himself as the head of this group? No. So she did not know who was the coordinator of this group? No. Look, but this, these people, these ten what they said: "we are all of the Police"? He said "Police, open", both other, and when I opened the door I was in handcuffs, yes.

26 But who said this, she said she was a woman? The first voice that said: "Open open" was a woman in that group but that there are women and men. This person is qualified, she opened the door? In addition to show her... He said, but he said "Police", yes. And they showed also... Badge yes yes. I understand. Look, they told her that she could have a lawyer? When we were at the police station and... I do not remember well, really, when it seems to me that one of them asked me, "You have a lawyer?", I said, "but I never done nothing, I have a lawyer "and that's it. Look, she has never had an experience like this? I want to say has a criminal record in Italy? No no no. It does not have a criminal record? No no no. So she had the idea to have a lawyer at that time? I asked her? No I do not... I thought they were... I thought first of all, except that I could not understand why they took me there, and at one point I asked a few of them "but are you sure that the person that you am I? "and I had a little 'the belief, perhaps you are wrong, maybe they wanted to look for Patrick, and I like being one that everyone knew Patrick, I thought they came to me, and then think before seeking a Lawyer, can I board convinced that I did something wrong, so I have not done anything, I was thinking all the time that I have taken the place of someone else. And at what time the said they could have the lawyer on the morning of 6, was the morning or the afternoon? I think it was afternoon, I think. She in this time has always been where? The police station? Always in the same room?

27 No, we changed, we went to take a room, take digital fingerprints and so on, and I was almost there one place and then after we were a bit 'and then walked back there. He's got to call his wife to calm her, to tell her something? I saw her... Off microphone. PROSECUTOR - But how significant is, I did not understand is in custody. }} Sorry, sorry. Can I still President? Maybe we do the opposition, sorry, but we possibly avoid an objection to the application but to terminate the same. I'm waiting to see what is the opposition, otherwise I ask the President to go ahead. How does he call his wife, that is in custody, that are questions unrelated to the story. So there is opposition in this... Off microphone. Can I continue? Yes, but here it is the opposition is accepted. She had a cell phone? I only had a phone that I used, yes. It was taken? Yes. I was also taken to an old one that we had there that I did not use the most, was blocked. But where? When he was at home or to the police station was taken, the cell phone? At home. Immediately? Yes, yes.

28 Other items were taken from his home on that occasion? When really, later came an agent, asked me what I wanted, I asked him a sweater, and he brought me a sweater, that was mine, and there I realized that, all my things were... But it was a little 'difficult to know what they took, I only saw me he said: "How many phones do you have?" and I said "I have one that I use is here, and there was another", the old one, I did not use the most, was on the bedside table.are the same, the only things that I could see and take but then after I do not know, after I realized that when they brought me a list, before going into huts and there I saw that there were a lot of my things They had been taken. When then went to the huts? When it was translated in prison? The same evening. "The same evening." You have got to talk to the Embassy, with its Embassy? Yes, yes. There is no opposition here. Maybe, sorry, we can ask the question, sorry Lawyer the only thing that allows the code, that is, if she had the chance to experience, they told her: you can warn people, family or someone, here. What I asked. No no no no I have not felt the Embassy... She was told "look that she may feel" if you remember, here. Yes, yes, yes, someone asked me, an agent asked me: "you have someone who wants you to know that you are arrested?" And she? I said: "I have taken my family before, they know" yes. Excuse me please, please Lawyer. Look, and after many days, instead withdrew the arrest warrant? After? After how many days you have been set free? Remember? I think 14.

29 Exactly what happened? His lawyer has made an instance or was a decision of the Authority? He can explain. If she knows it. Off microphone. Sorry, you know how... Off microphone. Excuse me, please also to reconstruct the process... Honestly... Sorry, sorry as it is constituted Civil Party also to rebuild this story, which is a requirement of the instance by setting up advanced and assumed, therefore please. So, you know how it went then? How many days was it... It is in short, how many days she was in a state of deprivation of liberty, and then days. It was an instance of, then? A determination of office if she knows? A measure... Honestly I have not got it right. If she did request to be... Because I know that I was the lawyer who... But he does not know these aspects of a procedural nature. I paid for everything, yes but... Please Lawyer, will result from the acts. Look, in the period after his release into the wild, she was called again by the prosecution? Pardon Attorney, repeats the question, I did not... In the period after his release, when he returned to freedom she was called again by investigators?

30 Can it be more specific, on what occasion? And how many times... No no no no... but... I had to go to the prosecutor, so we went to the prosecutor. How many times? Once. Once. Yes, yes. I understand. Look, returning instead to the relationship between the victim Meredith and Amanda, she said she knew that they were living together and were friends? She also knew the other girls in the house? No. And the guys who lived downstairs, knew them? No. And then, this, this friendship between Amanda and Meredith, she has been able to evaluate because frequented his restaurant or other... Meredith came twice, but they are presented with friends and then... If someone says to me, we are friends, I acknowledge. Sure. Look, instead she said that she had met Rudy Guede. No. And this maybe... She Excuse Rudy Guede... It seems to me that he had said before. Yes, he said something but not in these precise terms. She knew Rudy Guede? No no no way that recognizes people as well, I do not know, I do not know. He gave a very dubious exposure, the point does not know if it was Rudy Guede, could be but could not be, that I seemed to have caught in his statements.

31 Yes, yes yes. I for now I'm done, thank you, President. Yes. The parties requesting the examination of the witness can not... if there are further questions? If I may make an application to closing, I pray. (?): You, Patrick, has petitioned for just satisfaction as he has been paid? Because, as he took the Ordinance of the Court of Appeals of Perugia as a result of its application for... Ah, yes eight thousand euro. How much? Eight thousand euro. Thank you, Mr. President, I have no further questions. So there are no other questions, the witness is dismissed. He can sit.