Podcast Episode 4. {Music}

Transcription

1 Page 1 {Music} Host: Welcome to PMR, Paleo Magazine Radio, where we bring you Paleo nutrition, exercise, and lifestyle perspectives from both the experts and the everyday. PMR is brought to you by Paleo Magazine, the first and only print magazine dedicated to the Paleo lifestyle, and is hosted by Tony Federico. {Music} Hello, everyone, and thank you for tuning in to PMR. My name is Tony Federico and I m your host on this journey of modern-day primal living. This is our fourth episode, and I m excited to be talking to my friends, Keith and Michelle Norris. They re the organizers of PaleoFX, an ancestral health symposium centered around the idea of bringing theory to practice. We ll be talking about last year s event, as well as what they have planned for PaleoFX13, which will be held this March in the wonderfully weird city of Austin, Texas. In the second half of the show I m going to be speaking with Brenda and Chad Walding, two physical therapists who hope to find some ancestral momentum of their own by attending PaleoFX12. {Music} Keith and Michelle, welcome to the show.

2 Page 2 Michelle Norris: Hi. Thank you for having us. Keith Norris: Hey, yes. Great to be on the show, Tony. Absolutely. Absolutely. It s great to be talking to both of you. Now, the last time we had a chance to hang out was at the Ancestral Health Symposium in Boston, and I just wanted to take a second to kind of get some insight from you as far as what it was like going to an event, and having planned an event sort of, what was the experience like on both sides of the fence? Michelle Norris: A vacation {laughter}. Keith Norris: {Laughter}. Michelle Norris: Totally different. It s nice to not have to be running around like a chicken with your head cut off at an event that you it s a little bit surreal. Of course, we were sitting in the crowd when they had the problem with Robb s presentation. You know, it was a little bit of a gut check. You know, we were, like, oh, my God. You know, got to do something. And then it was like, oh, wait a minute. No, we don t. It s not our baby. {Laughter}. So, it was kind of interesting. So So, you almost wanted to jump in and help. Michelle Norris: No, it was initial thing of feeling like it actually was our problem to take care of. And then it was like, oh, no, wait. We don t have to worry about it. It s their deal. So, it was just that initial thought process. Because, having been on that other side and, you know, we re really good friends with Aaron Blaisdell, so we ve spent a lot of time talking to him and going through all of

3 Page 3 that, and those feelings. And unfortunately, Aaron didn t get to come to PaleoFX. We re hoping he gets to come to PaleoFX13. So, he doesn t know what it s like to be in the crowd, and not having had to do that {laughter}. So, it ll be nice for him if he gets to come to PaleoFX13 and not have to do any of the work, and all of that. So Now, I want to talk about PaleoFX. But before we get there, I wanted to find out a little bit about your own story. How you came into this Paleo way of life, and at what point did you decide, hey, we re going to put on an event? We want to take what we ve gained, and give an opportunity for people to come together, and talk and learn, and to do all that kind of cool stuff? Keith Norris: Well, I can tell you, Tony, having been either an athlete or trained athletes my entire life, I ve been involved in athletics since playing Pop Warner football as a child and, you know, being at the age where you had to hold the football up and down, because it wouldn t fit in your arms otherwise. And this Paleo way of eating, even though it wasn t called Paleo at the time that was just the generally accepted baseline diet of what an athlete would eat. So, I rolled with that for a long period of time. And I started probably 2005-ish, some time around in there, reading some of Art De Vany s work, and really started to look at the health aspects of the Paleo diet. And that s really what led me down this path. So, it went from being a more of a performance issue; you know, and as I got older and a little bit more concerned about my health, then it turned into less of performance issue and more of a health-related issue. So, that s kind of what led me into this path. And what about you, Michelle?

4 Page 4 Michelle Norris: Well, for me, I became Paleo by default. {Laughter}. Michelle Norris: And actually, Keith went was Paleo sooner than he actually remembers. So, I m really good about remembering stuff. I actually became Paleo in 2005; he was Paleo in So, he was Paleo for a year. My specialty as a chef was Italian, prior to becoming Paleo. So, for a good year I made homemade pasta and pizza, and he was not touching any of it. Really? Michelle Norris: Yes. He was not eating any of it, which he had always, you know, scarfed down previously. And I had all of these issues: stomach pains after I ate; the whole you know, just everything. IBS. You name it; I had it. And so, he kept saying very subtly Keith s not one of those that beats you over the head with anything. So, he was very careful. When I would say, gosh, my stomach hurts, he d say, I really think you have this celiac thing. I think you ought to get it checked out. And he would say it here and there, not pushy, not anything; but he would just keep saying it. And finally, after about a year, I was making pizza and pasta for the kids, because that was their favorite. And he didn t eat it again. And I said, are you seriously never going to have my pizza or pasta again? And he said, no. And then he said, I really, seriously think you have this celiac thing. I really think you need to get it checked out. So, I did. And the testing for celiac, of course, has changed quite a bit. But I came up negative for it. The doctor was telling me, well, you know, what we can do is, do a biopsy of your colon to check for

5 Page 5 it and everything, if you really feel like you have it. As he s telling me this, he s falling asleep. (inaudible) So, I tend to believe that he had some issues with Low energy Michelle Norris: Yes. And I thought, why is the next step always this invasive surgery? Why not just you know, how about I not eat that, and see how I do there, instead? It would seem a little simpler to go that route. Michelle Norris: Right. That s what I did. And, like I said, I became Paleo by default. I wasn t happy about it. I was pretty irritated that this was what I had to do, to be healthy and to not have stomachaches when I ate. And so, I didn t come to Paleo in a happy way. And I wasn t happy that, okay, well, I m healthy now, and so, let me find out everything I can find out about Paleo; I didn t do that. I wasn t one of those people. I was writing for other people on a website and doing cooking blogs and that type of thing. And I usually stayed mainstream. I didn t switch over and go, hey, everybody needs to do this, because they ll get healthy. It took a while for me to finally get there. So, that s kind of my story {laughter}. And obviously you did come around, and you guys kind of did that in a big way, because you re integral to last year s PaleoFX event happening. So, tell me a little bit about how you decided to take your lifestyle and turn that into an event. Keith Norris: We went to the initial Ancestral Health Society convention that was held in Los Angeles, and we loved it. We loved how that event was put on. We loved

6 Page 6 the very academic nature of the program. But on the plane ride back from Los Angeles to Austin we were talking about how great the event was; but we kept talking about, now, how are we going to distill this information and put it in front of the people that we work with, day in and day out? Because there s no way they re going to grasp all of this. There laid the seeds for PaleoFX: okay, so, let s take this academic knowledge and a great wealth of knowledge, too; but somehow, let s distill this down so the average person can grasp it and actually put it to use in their lives. And so, that laid the groundwork, and then we were off and running on that journey. And from what I understand, it was a pretty quick process. It s not like you deliberated for a huge amount of time. You decided you were going to do it, and you guys were rolling pretty quickly. Michelle Norris: Yes. It was very quick. We had initially decided what we wanted to do was do a smaller version of PaleoFX. We were convinced to go bigger, and we did, and Go big or go home, as they say. Michelle Norris: Yes. We had wanted to do a bigger event at a later time. But we were told, no, no; do it right away. You need to do it. So, we did. We moved forward with PaleoFX. We re not sorry about that decision. It s been a lot of work but it s been a lot of reward. I think that we ve brought a lot of new voices to the forefront, and that s probably one of the biggest things that Keith and I are proudest of, and probably one of the biggest pushes that we plan on having PaleoFX be a foundation for, is being able to find those new voices that need to be heard and that people want to hear. So, I think that s a big thing for us.

7 Page 7 And as somebody who attended both PaleoFX and the Ancestral Health Symposium, I can definitely tell that you really did take the idea of putting a practical slant on everything, very seriously. Because I really could feel that. Everything was kind of built around usable knowledge. And like Keith was saying earlier, it s important to have the theoretical basis of understanding, you know, these principles, and scientifically what s actually going on. Why is it working? Why is this a valid hypothesis? But then, ultimately, you have to, as you said, distill it down into some useful pieces. So, I wanted to talk a little bit about what you distilled down from your experience of PaleoFX12, and what you re going to then do for the upcoming event, PaleoFX13. Keith Norris: One of the big pushes for Paleo, and this is something we ve discussed quite a bit, is that all of the individual benefits of Paleo the looking better, feeling better, performing better all of those are fantastic, and all of those are attainable on an individual level. One direction we want to push Paleo, is into a sustainability direction. In other words, there may come a point at a certain time in the not too distant future, where we may know exactly what to eat and exactly what to do; but the problem will be, not being able to get our hands on that stuff. And our And we re seeing that problem with seafood stocks declining, and various things of that nature. So, that s a real concern. Keith Norris: Yes. It s a real concern, when you look at the demographics of how small family farms are beginning to evaporate. And that s just going to accelerate in the near future as the current farmers if you look at the demographics, there s an overwhelming percentage of these people who are at the retirement age, 65 or above. And there s an overwhelming percentage of these people

8 Page 8 who have either no heirs to pass this farmland on to, or no heirs who are interested in going into farming at all. Which leads, you know, the only entity to, you know, accept that influx is just going to be Big Ag. So, part of our push is going to be towards the sustainability side and towards trying to generate interest in local farming, local ranching, and these issues. And that s going to be a huge push for PaleoFX this year. And that s interesting. Do you guys see some of this bringing some attention to things like helping school lunch programs? You know, I know some schools have actually started to grow gardens and things like that, to get fresh produce, but there s various issues and, you know, bureaucratic red tape and things like that, that can complicate that. Do you see the Paleo movement being able to help and kind of influence, maybe not necessarily getting the world to be quote-unquote Paleo, but moving at least a step forward in a direction of, you know, eating more real food and less processed, less refined, and less junk food? Michelle Norris: Absolutely. That is probably one of the biggest pushes for us, is trying to gain that common ground with other food movements. Say, vegans, vegetarians for them to try to take that bipartisan {laughter} you know, cross the party lines, across the aisles, and say, you know, we need to start coming together and realizing that we have far more in common than we have not in common; that we want some of the same things. We want that animal husbandry, respect for animals. We want a lot of the same things: that people need to have a lot less processed foods; that we need to have better foods, and we need to have real foods. We need to have a respect for the land. All of those things need to be brought together, and realize that we need to work together so that we can kind of overtake the Big Ag, and kind of realize

9 Page 9 that that is not what s sustainable. That is not what is in the best interests of not just people in general, but this country and this economy. It s just not. I think for PaleoFX, for Keith and I, what we want to see this becoming and we feel like the movement itself to make the movement relevant, is to see the movement take an activist role and take a role of sustainability, and to not just health and wellness, but more sustainability. That we need to partner with you know, though we don t see eye to eye about eating animals, we do see eye to eye about respect for them. So, we need to take that common ground as much as we can, and start trying to partner with some of these movements, so that we can start making the moves towards getting rid of some of this Big Ag and factory farming. Keith Norris: We would love to see Paleo just become a natural consequence of smart and sustainable agricultural practices. That s ultimately what we would like to see. Uh-huh [affirmative]. Absolutely. And I m really glad that you brought up that point, because I do agree. And I think that, although it s kind of fun to sort of poke fun at vegans, vegetarians you know, obviously it s kind of like an easy target when you re in the Paleo community and, you know, flashing bacon and things like that in their face. But I do that we have more in common. We re both intentional about what we re eating. We re both considering the impacts on a societal level, on an economic level. So, I really do think that there s more to be gained from looking at that common ground, and looking to common ground, and trying to further what really everybody s hoping to do, which is to have a healthier future for our kids and for generations to come.

10 Page 10 Keith Norris: Absolutely. {Crosstalk} Michelle Norris: Right. Well, Keith and Michelle, it s been a real pleasure. Thank you so much for talking with me today. Michelle Norris: Oh, thank you for having us. We appreciate it. Keith Norris: Thank you very much for having us on, Tony. If you d like to attend PaleoFX13, be sure to visit therealpaleofx.com. After the break, we ll be talking with PaleoFX12 attendees, Brenda and Chad Walding. I m Tony Federico and you re listening to PMR. Be right back. {Music} Welcome back to Paleo Magazine Radio. Brenda and Chad, thank you for coming on the show. Brenda Walding: Thanks for having us. Chad Walding: Thanks for having us, Tony. It s good to be here. So, we met at last year s PaleoFX, and you guys told me your story, and I thought it was very interesting. So, rather than me tell it, I just wanted to give

11 Page 11 you both an opportunity to kind of describe to our audience how you ended up at PaleoFX and what you re looking to get out of going to that event. Chad Walding: I guess I ll go first. You know, we had started living this lifestyle about five years ago. Around that time, my wife got very sick. She started breaking out in chronic rashes; lost a lot of weight. Things didn t really make much sense to us. We went to conventional doctors, took a lot of steroids and drugs and whatnot; and things kind of went away, and then they would come back and they would get a lot worse. Around that same time, we started hearing things about, like, Weston Price, and started getting into CrossFit. Learned about Robb Wolf. And we were just kind of blown away that there were people living in a certain way in the past who, I guess, were more aligned with nature, who did not have all these diseases that we have today. So, we kind of just restructured everything in terms of the way we ate. It didn t happen at one point. We kind of started making changes over time. But, slowly but surely, my wife was able to heal herself. And we just got very, very passionate about food and this whole movement. And we found out about the PaleoFX symposium last year, and it was a nobrainer for us to go to it. We live in Austin, so it was like, we have to go. It s right here. And it was all the people that we had learned from, you know, listening to podcasts and reading books guys like Robb Wolf, and Mark Sisson; Chris Kresser; Nora Gedgaudas. And it just kind of goes on and on and on. So, for us it was just a good way to be more a part of that movement, and continue to learn from those people, and then also meet them at the same time. So, it was a great experience.

12 Page 12 Your professional background kind of makes this a little bit different than I guess you could say for the average person. It s not like you were illiterate in terms of health and wellness and science, and things of that nature. Could you talk a little bit about what your day job is? Chad Walding: Yes. So, we re both doctors of physical therapy. We started out treating mostly the spine, like neck pain and back pain, and outpatient therapy. And that s kind of what we were doing for the first three or four years of our career. And then we moved to working in home health. So, that was a huge wake-up call, because we were going to people s homes to treat them these were people who could not get out of their own homes because they were so sick, or just didn t have the strength to get out of their home, basically. And these are people with cancer, Alzheimer s, you know, diabetes, multiple sclerosis, Parkinson s. You know. So, the interesting thing about that was, we were able to go into their homes and then see the environment that they were living in, seeing the foods they were eating, the toxins they were surrounding themselves with, and how that was contributing to their problem. But they didn t quite see that and understand that, because they were still operating under, I guess you could say, an old mindset, that still to this day, most people in our culture are still operating under that mindset. But it was an interesting thing for us. Because we d drive around all day listening to podcasts all day, for four hours a day, about nothing but health about how to eat. You know, where disease comes from, and how that the food that we re eating, the toxins in our food, the chemicals, the toxic fats how it s so problematic and contributing to these problems. And then we would go directly into those homes and see those people with those problems.

13 Page 13 So, it was just a huge wake-up call. And we felt very motivated to continue to learn, but also share that with other people as many people as we could, really. So, we started sharing it with our patients when it was appropriate, with our family and our friends. And from the whole PaleoFX thing, the thing that we really took away from it was to be more proactive about that, and we started a blog. And we ve had a lot of fun with it. It s blown up. It s been better than we ever imagined it would be. And it s just great to see that more people are trying it out and learning about this through things like social media, and then seeing for themselves what real food can do for them. And I think the more testimonials that we can get from people, and getting them to buy in and live this lifestyle, I think there s just great potential for change in the whole healthcare system, and then just the health of our nation really. Now, I want to go back a second, because you were telling me about some of the health problems that your wife was having. And if Brenda, if you could describe a little bit, what was your lifestyle like then? What kind of things were you eating? What kind of things were you doing? What was the transformation that you experienced? Brenda Walding: Yes. Basically, I pretty much grew up thinking I could eat whatever I wanted. I was a collegiate athlete in college playing soccer at TCU. Pretty much had been eating fast food. I didn t eat much vegetables. I basically, dinner for me was a sandwich or cereal, and I would eat out a lot. And I could always eat whatever I wanted because I was thin and I was fit and seemingly incredibly healthy, until, you know, like you said, four, five years ago, when everything sort of just kind of came crumbling down. I became sick. Started getting rashes, like you said. Started on my legs, and just started traveling all

14 Page 14 over, and eventually wound up on my entire body. And it actually didn t really go away for a few years. Wow. Brenda Walding: So, there was also other health issues. It ended up being a severe leaky gut issue. I don t know if many people have heard of that, but basically, the things I was eating, my stressful lifestyle, potentially medication (inaudible) can cause your gut to leak and make your body incredibly toxic. So, basically, my immune system was going haywire. And I not only had rashes all over; I became very ill. Actually had to go on disability for a short time, because I couldn t get out of bed. That kind of thing. So, I went from collegiate athlete to, I can t make it around the block {laughter}. So And you re somebody who s tasked with helping other people to get well. Brenda Walding: Right. Right. So, I was trying to work, you know, covering up my skin in the summer with long sleeves and pants, and trying to help others in my profession as a physical therapist. And I m quite a researcher. And so, when this started happening, and I went to about twelve, at least, different doctors initially was going through the conventional medicine route taking drugs, steroids, antiviral medications, antibiotics, et cetera and realized pretty soon that they were going to kill me, giving me all these medications. And just started researching, researching, researching. And what I came across was you know, it kind of dawned on me, although I don t know what s going on with me right now, I do have control over what I put in my body. And growing up, all the way through my college career, I never once thought of how food, what I put into my body, could affect my

15 Page 15 health. I mean, I know that sounds crazy, but I always thought of food as, well, I can eat whatever I want because I m thin. And I think a lot of women do that. And there s thin women who just think of, well, I ll just have a Snickers and then I ll go run it off. And so, I never really Yes. Thinking of food as calories, but not really extending that to any qualitative sort of assessment of what it is. Brenda Walding: Right. I mean, if you think about it, food that s the basic building blocks of our body. Our body is constantly renewing, repairing, and it requires certain key components to be healthy and to continue growing and repairing. So, I never once thought about my body and my health in terms of that. And so, I started researching; you know, started to figure out, okay, well, what are we designed to eat? What should I eat to heal my body? And there are, of course, so many different ideas, and diets, quote-unquote, out there. And what just made sense was, like Chad mentioned earlier, is just looking back at our ancestors and looking at some of the work of Dr. Price and others. There were civilizations that were largely unaffected by immune system issues or diseases of civilization diabetes, whatnot. So, I was inspired by reading a lot of this work, and just really going back to the basics, and started, you know, this paleolithic-type primal approach incorporating nourishing foods like bone broths and fermented foods. And just really started to get into that. And so, I started to change. I basically went from fast food, sugar all the time, to having to get off. And I also did take food sensitivity tests and, you know, was sensitive to everything. A lot of times with leaky gut you become sensitive to all kinds of foods; environmental stuff. So, basically, went from

16 Page 16 eating a lot of junk and not eating a lot of vegetables, and not caring about the quality of my food, to really transforming rather quickly. And I kind of viewed it as a life-or-death situation for me. So, I ve been focusing on food as medicine for the past five years, and I continue to heal, and continue to be pretty strict on that. So And so, you were able to address some of those health concerns? You experienced some relief, I guess? Brenda Walding: When I started to change the way I ate, I did feel better. But I was so sick and my body was so toxic, that food alone did not help. But it was absolutely foundational for me to improve my health. I did work with a few alternative healthcare practitioners, and then really had to go into my lifestyle, my job, my stress levels; and also, you know, being a collegiate athlete, I was 110% all the time, training, training, training, and I had to dial that down, and really got into yoga and working on sleeping eight to nine hours a night. And things like emotional stress, and trying to deal with all facets of well-being, and really trying to dial all of those things in; also working, like I said, with an alternative medicine practitioner. And so, I see diet as an absolutely foundational for me healing, although it did take many different things on my part to heal completely. So and I m still on that path {laughter}. Yes, absolutely. And congratulations. It takes courage Brenda Walding: Thank you. to change and to have faith in trying something new. And I do think it s a really important point that, yes, diet s very important; but there s a lot more to it, that go beyond just what we re eating, but how we re living, our stress

17 Page 17 levels, our sleep levels. In this past year so, you went to PaleoFX, you attended the event, you got to see people like Robb Wolf and Mark Sisson, and all the various bloggers, in person. Was there anything at the event that really sort of impacted you maybe more than something else? Was there anything that was maybe more memorable or maybe had an impact over the following year? Chad Walding: I think for us personally, the big thing that we got from it was just a huge inspiration. And that really started with that first opening talk with Jack Kruse. I mean, literally, if you go back and look at the video, he s, like, looking right at us. And he told this story about, like, starfish; and I don t know what happened, but the moral of the story was, like, you ve got to get out there and share other with other people about what you know, because what you know can help them. And we had known for quite some time with, you know, the story that Brenda just told you, and kind of what we re seeing with our current health system model, that we have something we have some knowledge that we have to share with people. So, it really motivated us to do that, basically. Because we had felt like we were kind of living a life with no fulfillment. You know, we were kind of living and working in a system that kind of failed to get to the root of the problem. And we wanted to be as much of a part of exposing that root of the problem as we can, and helping more people realize that and experience that. So, the big takeaway from us was the inspiration, for sure. And I think that was a bit of the intention of the whole thing, was about gaining momentum with this whole movement, and doing more and helping it expand, basically.

18 Page 18 And one thing just wanted to find out is, there s two schools of thought. One is, you need an alternative to, like you said, the medical establishment, and to having a symptom-focused way of treating people; or, you work with that system and you try to change it from within. In your experience, where do you kind of fall in terms of that? Do you feel like there are opportunities perhaps for you to work with the system? Or, do you think we really need a valid alternative? Chad Walding: That s a good question. I personally believe that medical doctors have the opportunity to start learning about nutrition. And I think this whole Paleo Physicians Network is just an awesome idea, and a great way to get people learning about that. Like, if you look at that first intervention, when someone s sick and they go to the doctor and we saw this all the time with our just simple things like neck pain and back pain, right? So, like, as physical therapists, we understand that neck pain and back pain typically comes from poor posture and kind of living in this flexion-based society. Right? We re, like, always sitting, always bending forward. So, our bodies get molded in that position. And we re not designed to be there. We re designed to be upright. So, people would go to their medical doctor with pain, and then they may get prescribed a pain medication. You know. But the problem is not, they re, like, pain-medication-deficient. The problem is the way they re moving. And in the same way, someone can go to their doctor with, you know, some sort of symptom, whether it be a cold or the flu or whatever. And there could be something going on there with how they re eating. Maybe it s grains. Maybe it s conventional dairy. Maybe it s too much sugar. But if that issue is not addressed from the get-go, then the root of the problem can get bigger and

19 Page 19 bigger and bigger and bigger. And then, one little antibiotic becomes another antibiotic, and it kind of goes down this sort of rabbit hole. But I think where we can improve upon, is that first intervention in saying, hey, we ll give you a pill; that s fine. But we want you to know that a lot of the things that you re doing in terms of your lifestyle could be problematic. And I think getting there means educating more healthcare practitioners about this. I think healthcare practitioners need to get healthy and set an example for their patients. And then putting that platform out there, so people can start to understand where these things are coming from, as opposed to, it s all genetics and there s nothing I can do about it. And I think that s the worst mindset that we can have, and that s the current mindset that we have right now. It means you have no control over anything, and that s just not the case at all. You have a lot of control over everything; but you don t know that unless you start doing something different, or else nothing is going to change. But I don t like the idea of separating. I don t like the idea of, you know, here s conventional medicine and here s alternative medicine. There s them and there s us, and there s no cooperation in there. Because I think that just creates more separation, and that s not where we need to go. I think we just need to start educating. I d love to see a real whole food nutritional class given to healthcare practitioners, and ask them to try it out. Because I think if they did, they would realize some things. And if you see a lot of the vocal medical doctors out there that have tried this out, they re very, very vocal about it with their patients, and they re some of the speakers within this whole Paleo kind of scene. And it s just so good to see. It was so good to see some of these doctors talk at the PaleoFX symposium. So, I believe that

20 Page 20 there s opportunity to collaborate together and not create separation. That s what, me personally, I d like to see. And within your peer group you know, fellow physical therapists have you discussed these concepts with any of them? Do you attend conferences? What s the receptiveness within your particular profession? Brenda Walding: Unfortunately, we re the way that things are set up in the home health industry is that we basically are independent contractors and we work for ourselves. We don t really get a whole lot of time spent with colleagues in this particular setting. But, fortunately, we spend more time at conferences like PaleoFX, and, you know, nutritional conferences, and learning. We also have continuing education, where we re able to go to conferences. However, in the past couple of years we ve just been doing a lot of online study. So, we haven t had a whole lot recently of collaboration or communication with a lot of our peers. But I think that it s in the future, you know, as far as going to conferences and things like that, that we ll definitely be able to share, you know, when appropriate. But, as of right now, we haven t had a whole lot of connections with our peers in terms of physical therapists. Right now, currently, we re kind of slowing down our physical therapy and kind of moving towards wanting to coach, train, do some nutritional consulting, lifestyle coaching, and teaching and coaching, and I m also became a certified Taoflow instructor. So, it s a fusion of yoga and qigong. And so, we have really been inspired this past year to kind of go outside of this physical therapy box and learn about other things. So, we ve kind of been focusing on that.

21 Page 21 That s really cool, and that sounds awesome. We re coming to the end here as far as our time is concerned. But I wanted to thank you both for talking with me today. And hopefully, since you do live in Austin, I ll be seeing you at PaleoFX13, because it s right around the corner. Literally, for you, it s right around the corner. For me Brenda Walding: {Laughter}. a little bit of a flight. But it s been a real pleasure, and again, I hope to see you and to learn more about how you continue to grow and implement Paleo in your careers. {Music} Brenda Walding: All right. Thanks, Tony. Chad Walding: Thank you, Tony. That concludes this episode of Paleo Magazine Radio. I m Tony Federico, and on behalf of everyone at PMR, thank you for listening. Host: If you would like to share your story on PMR, please visit our Facebook page at facebook.com/paleomagazine. For full transcripts of the show as well as exclusive online content, go to our webpage, paleomagonline.com. You can also talk to us on Twitter at #pmradio. {Music} THE END