Interview with Delores Mary Aaron

Transcription

1 Interview with Delores Mary Aaron June 30, 1994 Transcript of an Interview about Life in the Jim Crow South New Orleans (La.) Interviewer: Michele Mitchell ID: btvct07060 Interview Number: 806 PREFERRED CITATION Interview with Delores Mary Aaron (btvct07060), interviewed by Michele Mitchell, New Orleans (La.), June 30, 1994, Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South Digital Collection, John Hope Franklin Research Center, Duke University Libraries. Behind the Veil: Documenting African-American Life in the Jim Crow South An oral history project to record and preserve the living memory of African American life during the age of legal segregation in the American South, from the 1890s to the 1950s. ORIGINAL PROJECT Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University ( ) COLLECTION LOCATION & RESEARCH ASSISTANCE John Hope Franklin Research Center for African and African American History and Culture at the Rare Book, Manuscript and Special Collections Library

2 Center for Documentary Studies at Duke University Behind the Veil: Documenting African American Life in the Jim Crow South Interview with Dolores Mary Aaron New Orleans, LA June 30, 1994 Interviewed by Michele Mitchell Unedited Transcript by Greta Ai-Yu Niu

3 It's Thursday June and this is an interview with Mrs. Dolores Aaron and could you spell your last name please? A-a-r-o-n And your first name is? Dolores with an O Dolores [pause] Dolores with an O means pain and sorrow but I don't have time to be sick [chuckle] Did your mother name you Dolores with that in mind? I can imagine yes because it was an argument between she and her sister my aunt wanted Gloria, and my mother wanted Dolores and Dolores fifty-one years ago I suppose seventy some years ago rather was a very popular name at the time she went out yes and um you were born in 1924? 1924 January I'm a Capricorn January Fourteenth 1924 on a cold Monday morning Mama says ice was hanging from the tree it was just that cold and yet she said you so warm were you born at home? Dolores Aaron 1

4 I was born at home at that time there were midwives and I was born with a Mrs. Tillman... Mrs. Tillman? Mrs. Tillman was the midwife who delivered me at 1936 Annette Street either 19 or 1836 Annette Street a n n? a n n e t t e Annette Street here in New Orleans and uh could you tell me a little bit about we're going to jump a little bit from when you were a little baby could you tell me a little bit about the neighborhood where you grew up what you remember about it? well Annette Street address I know I had to have moved when I was about 4 years old and then we moved to a portion of what you call the Treme Street and we lived in that neighborhood for quite a number of years uh it was uh, near the railroad track near where the present Lafitte housing project is now, now at that time the Lafitte project wasn't there but when we lived there uh, there was uh a fighting ring where all of the major fights were held over on St. Louis Street I can... really? Dolores Aaron 2

5 ...remember we could look we could sit in our back window and I suppose it was cheating but we could see the ring so we didn't have to buy a seat to go in and see the fights at the arena which was around the corner that was just a nice memory of my childhood,... And of course we lived near the churches the churches were the methodist church Grace Methodist Church where I had where I was christened and uh we attended that church, and, I went to McDonogh Thirty-seventh School, [Wicker?] School you know how you move up from one school to the other I went to Wicker and then somebody got the bright idea in the administration that all the children that lived on a certain side of the town had to go to Craig School and at the time it happened my mother and all everybody was just very upset but that was the turning point in my life going to Joseph A. Craig's School which is truly in the heart of the Treme in the heart of Treme? Treme t r e m e that's that's in New Orleans that's black New Orleans that's where the auditorium is, uh mm-hmm... the Theater of Performing Arts those places are directly in the Treme around the corner from Joseph A. Craig School, there was a Mary Coghill c o g h i l l, a very strong principal she was she was the most and when I say the turning point in Dolores Aaron 3

6 my life it's because that's when I really was able to feel that we had that there was nothing better than your teachers really oh we had the best teachers I would always say we had the most caring teachers in that building Miss Coghill was a rough principal on on on discipline and the teachers were highly disciplined too so that caused us to have good teachers and uh, so when I left say fifth grade moved on to sixth grade and on up to high school, the foundation was there and I feel very strongly that I got it at that school, and I've had an opportunity to work with children from Craig School since I've been grown and I I never pass up an opportunity to tell them say I went to school here [chuckle] what was it like walking you said it was in the heart of the Treme what was it like walking back and forth uh from your house to school what sort of things did you walk by? restaurants... mm-hmm... nightclubs that that you knew better to even peep into [chuckle] Dolores Aaron 4

7 uh yes there were places for instance there was a place which was well known in New Orleans called The Snowflake it was on uh on Orleans Street right where we are now you know we're in that area at this moment mm-hmm we're in that area this where we're talkin' about is less than six blocks from where we are now The Snowflake was on Orleans? The Snowflake was on Orleans there were other other restaurants their names I can't remember but I do know that the young children understood that these were places for adults and I think that in later years this street became what you might call a strip for nightclubs and music and all of that, uh, but no problems with people everybody had such a high regard for children when they went to school uh there were, times when people were making statements about young men, the fact that they thought young men were what they call smoking weed or mooties that's what they called it at that time... mooties? I think it's m-o-o-t-i-e-s mooties I I don't know I've never tried to spell it before but that's the way it sounds anyway it had the same meaning some kind of a drug uh the people who hung on the corners were very respectful of the children it's the strangest thing and the kind of fear that you have today you just didn't have it Dolores Aaron 5

8 because those people who didn't do what was right, while seemingly highly respective respectful rather of the people who did right oh watch out watch your mouth man 'cause that's a lady and I can remember that I haven't heard that for so long because whatever they think now they seem to say it but I do so you ask what happened when I left there I went when I left Craig School I went to Wicker that's the Pan Am building that's the Pan Am Building is is where the New Orleans Recreation Department is now the same spot I went to junior high school there So Wicker is a junior high Wicker was a junior high school and again we had George Long and Thelma [Collier?] who was a secretary just fine people and everybody was happy because you they knew that if you attended certain schools there were certain people you were going to sort of rub against to get something so Mr. Long was a uh, I suppose an organization man I would I would venture to say he might have been a mason he might have been something like that I don't know but whatever he was it was it was supposedly important, so he was your principal and he was an important figure but can you see Michele why children in that day always had a feeling that they were going to be somebody because they were always coming along and working along with people whom their parents told them who this person is and what the person represents and and you know, we didn't use the words mentor I don't know what these words like mentor and all of that have come from but I'm positive that's what they meant because I don't ever remember Dolores Aaron 6

9 anyone using the term role model when I was uh, I don't know if we took that for granted you know, or what, but anyways the same significance so you can understand what I mean and we just had people to look up to and we were encouraged to look up to and of course all parents it seemed to me and I'm positive I'm wrong but all parents put emphasis on education I don't remember being friendly with any child whose parent didn't talk to me about school and how important it was to finish school, church and school is all I heard, mm-hmm... as a child, take a break here? we can yeah let's take a break [tape pause] ( ) short you were telling me about um education in your neighborhood and you said that church and school were all that I heard, what sort of people lived in your neighborhood was it just different you know people with different occupations? it was a variety variety? Dolores Aaron 7

10 it was a variety for instance it was not necessarily what you'd call not even run down it was just a different variety of people you had people at the highest strata all the way to I think the neighborhoods were not so pronounced at that time they were also white folks that lived in that neighborhood and that's another thing I wanted to share with you that during my young years it was very common to have white folk living next door to you, uh, who would speak to you be very polite with you would walk to school with you and continue on to their school, 'cause, all of us knew the schools were segregated but yet when I think about the children like the Longeaus who lived up the street from here the Longeaus uh, walked to school they walked me to from Conti and and Prayer which is close to (B ) what was the name of the first street? Conti c-o-n-t-i and Prayer 'cause they had their mother had a grocery store and the grocery store was right next to us, well it was time to go to school we'd go to school we'd walk to school together, uh we would stop on Bienville Street because that's where McDonogh 37 was, and that's where Wicker was Wicker was on one block you know two blocks and here was 37 so we walked to school together and they would walk to Cleveland Street they would have to cross Canal Street and go to Cleveland Street that school has since become a a black school but when they were there it was a white school we uh when we came home we compared with those children who were in the same grade I remember we used to compete with each other really? Dolores Aaron 8

11 oh yes we used to compete we used to brag on on what we knew 'cause that's what we did we used to play school, and it was a good interchange you know now that I'm grown I'm positive that they learned some things and and we learned some things from each other we we watched the radio together at night, you know, you sit, outside we could sit outside and at that time and weren't locking doors and all that so their front door would be open and if there were black kids on the block whose parents didn't have a radio then all of us congregated on the Longeaus' steps and we would sit and there would be no light in the in the living room of the Longeaus, all you could see would be the front of the tv light and we would sit and actually listen, to the radio and the man would say something like that's right that's exactly right and somebody in the group would say that's Alexander's Ragtime Band and the man on the radio would say that's right just as if he heard you... [laugh]... as if he was answering you and we would just get so excited I remember how we used to do that, we used to compare lessons we compared books and that's how we knew that they got new books I never remember one of the Longeau children displaying a book at the beginning of the year 'cause you always showed your books when you first when you when you go to school you showed your book 'cause you want to know what book you're in, and and that that competitive spirit came from our parents and I realize it, and also our Sunday school teachers because our Sunday school teachers were always, always preparing us to do a Dolores Aaron 9

12 better job and always using white people as the standard please white folk have always been the standard and this was not necessarily always the best thing to do, but that's what black people did and that's what I meant when I said to you that I believe, that many middle class black folk just, sort of condescending and just made us feel like if we can just do what they do then we're okay, but we're not to expect them to accept us, but at least be able to do much of what they can do and I don't know if any of the let's say regular people ever got the impression like the like the young activists that we were every going to make it, I I don't know that I can just say that, the young activists in my opinion they moved us, and I I call Martin Luther King young you know we were born a day apart but so many different ages [chuckle] you see he was born on I think the fifteenth of January you see and I feel extra good about that I almost feel like I had something to do with his being born on that day [chuckle]... [laugh]...isn't that silly? but, but it it was easy to follow that kind of youth and uh, I think it was, the whole country if anyone moved white folk I think Martin Luther King did I think he moved white folk more than anybody else and I believe the reason he was able to move them is because he did not bring with him the fear of black people that the average black person brings to white folk see Martin Luther King talked about peace, and he didn't just talk it Michele, he demonstrated how you could do things peacefully and even though he was mowed down let's say, he was mowed down he didn't mow anybody down it reminds me when I went to work in Dolores Aaron 10

13 the city government and the people said well you know Mrs. Aaron this is uh, you know this is uh, politics you know you're going to have to be like the rest of the politicians I said I came here and I found these people here, I'm going to do my job and I will leave them here and I promise you I will not get into the politics of it and I did it I think it's because I was determined that I could do it and he was determined he was so determined to be non-violent, and there are people who criticize him for it I highly respect him for it just to show that he could do what he did without being violent the only thing that happened is that we didn't follow through with him to the extent that we could have I truly believe that if we had tried it, harder, we would've managed it but instead we've decided to do turn around doing and that's being more violent and escalating the violence god the man must be turning over in his grave, he must be turning over in his grave because we had pretty good demonstrations, would you believe that my husband, stayed in the same room as Martin Luther King less than thirteen days before he was in that room and was killed? really at the Lorraine? My husband was working for Falstaff Brewery at the time, and that is the room that was rented to him in fact it was he and one other gentleman who has since died a very nice salesman and they cooked, they brought food and a little burner and whatever they needed and they cooked on that porch thirteen days before Martin Luther King died. It's really it's really something now you know he's too young to be my mentor, but I sure admire him [chuckle] I really do I admire oh it Dolores Aaron 11

14 was like I liked Kennedy, and I like Martin Luther King as as up and coming young men who in my opinion really had something to do with some of the good things that happened to black folk I just believe that strongly, I really do, and it was, it was just something but none of those people seem to stay around huh no they don't they just can't stay around, go ahead my dear um, I think that some of the stuff you were telling me over lunch about education about, the teachers that you had and I wanted to know, in addition to your regular course work in addition to taking history and other things, did they teach you any things that would sort of instill race pride how would they do that with the curriculum? well you had some teachers who really, well some of them were really racist too some of them really hated black white folk I mean honest to goodness some of the black teachers oh yeah and they didn't hide it and sometimes it made some problems for them at school because you remember that uh, before I left the school system we began to integrate so some of that began to happen but the teachers who taught me, were moving through a time when schools were not at all integrated there was no intention of but they helped us to understand sort of like what you're going to need to be able to make it, one was to be, open, and not revengeful or angry, I Dolores Aaron 12

15 remember Walter Barker b a r k e r Walter J. Barker was a teacher of music and Michele I don't know if you all have had the advantage we had but music was an integral part of education and when they're talking about keeping children from being violent if you that to me to me that was one of the ways are you familiar with the Twice 55 book? no, what's that? Twice 55 is a, a little brown and tan book it's sort of a like a light tan and it has dark brown writing inside it's called Twice 55 now for the love of whatever I don't know what that means but, there were just a large selection of songs in that book the songs had such words in it that for the most part they were very soothing they they were very meaningful they told a story you know like when you sing lift every voice and sing now if you if you can't get something out of lift every voice and sing by the time that you're about twelve years old and everybody you know knows it at least the first voice you don't know black folk who don't know that song, well in my time we knew all three verses you follow me? mm-hmm but it was because the words were saying what we needed it's just like, your appreciation for slavery, and I always saying that's where I get the expression they had more sense accidently the slaves than some of us have on purpose, because the kind of things they suffered helped them to be better people, it made them stronger for instance they had a they had a dependence on a right kinds of things Dolores Aaron 13

16 where these people depend on getting back at somebody they depended upon God to bring them through and I I just feel he must have done it because we're not still there we're not still there ( ) ( ) do you feel about slavery? exactly what it was about, how it came about, the kinds of things we saw for instance by the time we saw the movie 'Roots' I felt good about having seen it because I remember having heard the kinds of things from Walter Parker from Eleanor Parker Bell I can remember Mrs. Bell I can remember Mr. Parker as I shared with you before just taking the book and putting the book down and put the book down let me give you some history let me talk with you about your black people in whom you can be more than proud you know the kinds of things and of course Mr. Parker was a big man, a big black loud man he could put emphasis on it I had teachers like Mr. Parker all the way through the university, uh Mr. Bouisse Mr. Bouisse it's spelled b o u i s s e he was a teacher at Xavier University Mr. Bouisse was a very very fair skinned, soft spoken black man with rosy cheeks, his wife said you know you loved my husband I said I did well he would read poems to us, in college, and we would sit and we would listen and we would interpret and it would be almost invariably we were interpreting the way an African girl or boy, showed reverence, to their parents, to their sisters and brothers that we the kind of things that you take for granted you know and he was always bringing us something from from now and I'm talking about and I'm talking about between 1943 and 194 what 47 so I'm a young girl I'm only seventy Dolores Aaron 14

17 [chuckle] but I can remember my teachers I had Miss Tillman now Miss Tillman Ernestine Tillman was the daughter of the midwife I told you brought me into the world her mother brought me into the world and I found she became a teacher of mine in when I was in grammar school, and all of the plays we were in for instance Mama was at church with Miss Tillman and all of these people and it was a book I don't know what ever became of it the name of the book was Oh You Ought to See the United States in Washington now why that book was written and all of those that was across the book but Miss Tillman and my mother her name was Ernestine she became Mrs. Bosoni later on Miss Tillman would read from that book, some of the kinds of poems that my mother would select from it there were plays and all of that and we did the plays of slavery, we wore the the white sort of like cheesecloth we wore we did the dances and talking about dance my extracurricular the reason I love to dance is because my teachers taught me you see you had a major festival in all public school years ago ( ) problems with the children we don't do what we used to do you see children used to be kept so busy, they didn't have time to get in trouble think about that we were always in a play, and every evening you were either in a play in school to help to bring up your cultural side or you were in a play at church as my mother would say okay now you got to go to pracrice we used to say as little children Ma got to go to pracrice [chuckle] but anyway we were always practicin' for something, we were always for instance if I can talk I learn how to talk in the church I was talking to Reverend Nathaniel Williams and he called me because he wanted to know if I knew someone and I said oh it's so good to hear your voice! and he says yes and Dolores Aaron 15

18 it's good to hear yours because my mother used to brag on you being one of our pupils she used to be the wife of the minister, and she was always thinking of something we could do so we just kept busy, and when we wanted a baby one time we used one of the Longeau grandchildren a white baby for the baby at the church and I'm talking about I know it had to be we couldn't imagine that baby being black I guess, so we borrowed one of the grandchildren or one of they let her do it and she sittin' there in the manger a little white girl sittin' up there in the church with a white baby I can remember as if it were yesterday [chuckle] [chuckle] I guess the right person asked you see... mm-hmm... if the baby could be a part of it took pictures and everything did you also do um Negro literature or oh yes oh yes what kind of things did you learn? well let me share this with you we learned quite quite a bit and one of the reasons I guess we learned it but you know we even did the what do you call it the um, what is it a dialect? uh-huh Dolores Aaron 16

19 we were able to to do the dialect Gertrude Poree was the one who who worked with us Poree? Gertrude P o? P o r e e, Gertrude Poree would would work with us and help us to to pick up on how to pronounce the words using the dialect of the of the uh, of the blacks uh of course at that time we called ourselves Negroes, see what I'm talking about we didn't call ourselves Afro Americans or we've had so many names haven't we? yes we have but that just puts us out in front don't you think? I think that's an advantage too to be called so much even even derogatorily we're referred to as sometimes as niggers, and uh, my mother would always explain to us what a nigger was and she was some sort of a something of a on a boat now you know what they throw out, so that when you're on the ferry, and they throw this this piece of something and I thought it was anchor you know, and she says I says yes mother she says well that's a nigger if my mother says that was a nigger well that was a nigger but Mama said was an instrument it, it was not us she told you that? Dolores Aaron 17

20 my mother when you were really little? she told us that when we were little because I realize now my mother did not want us to feel negatively about ourselves, my mother wanted us to know that when white folks said nigger they didn't know what they were talking about, and we were not to buy what they said because they did not know what they were talking about so, as I grew up, the word nigger didn't bother me, for the simple reason that I knew what they didn't know I knew what a nigger was it was just something to connect [chuckle] oh. you were talking about Miss Poree what she did, yeah, she taught us uh uh, she gave us an opportunity I'm trying to remember some of some of the kinds of things that uh that we had to learn for instance like some black person would have wrote and I don't know who it was now but uh we would have to recite like uh, something on work I can remember uh, how, I forget the words now, of all the ( ) there's work to be done something like that, but anyway everybody had to recite it, but if for some reason in in in all the black literature there was always a message, and for some reason you may not remember the words but you could always remember the message, I think that's one of the reasons we have come to where we are is because we got the most important part of it was that we did participate in the literature we did help to write some of it, we do have journalists who maybe now are not as uh well known Dolores Aaron 18

21 as others for instance like men like Ralph Bunch did alot of writing that's one of the reasons he was discovered uh, and we had that high appreciation for him and when he became an an ambassador during our time you know when he was an ambassador oh that was just that was the that was the last word, we liked Adam Clayton Powell, because we realized what he was really doing uh, in fact when I was in New York last week and I'm looking at the buildings that Adam Clayton Powell and you think about all of the negatives about him but you know what? there has not been another person like Adam Clayton Powell to really work for the people in New York, there's never been another one like him, because he was a fighter he was a fighter and we haven't got another one yet, but people like that who did who did what we consider some of the best and some of our teachers were writers uh, in fact I wish while you're here you can meet uh, if he's still living, he's still living, I'm trying to remember, if I can put my hands on him he just brought me some old books say six eight weeks ago Champ Clark would you, if you can meet Champ Clark Champ loves to write, and, there's, and Benny Jefferson, I can share some of their books of poems with you, what a gain, every poem, offering a black person, a message, and much of it was, to stay in there to hang in there you can do it, you are somebody and that was even before we started using terms like that we were always uh, made to feel that we were, that we were extra special. Do you feel like that? mm-hmm that it's just nice to be what you are... Dolores Aaron 19

22 mm-hmm... like I even like the idea that they looking for for what's his name's hair? what's his name? OJ Simpson oh yeah I like that 'cause if they find his hair they're not going to find hair like it, his coarse hair you know, I doubt if they'll find anybody's hair exactly like his is, that's part of us, that makes us different. And in terms of like walking to school, did you have to walk a long way and? Yes dear, if you don't I don't know if you know New Orleans but let's just say when I lived in the French Quarter now when did you move to the French Quarter? was about I suppose eleven or twelve years old, we moved to the French Quarter Mama rented a fourteen room house and then she, she sublet the house, that is if you wanted one room you could have one room if you wanted a furnished room you could have a furnished room you wanted an empty room or if you wanted three rooms and three rooms together, and that is how my mother managed to send us to school because by that time my mother and father were separated my father was sending us small amounts of money and sometimes nothing, uh, he was in Mississippi where he wanted to you know he was, back home, and uh, in Carthage right? in Carthage in Carthage Mississippi and so my mother lived with us out there and uh, I went to Craig School then that's when I was going to Craig School and I left Dolores Aaron 20

23 Craig and I was able to go to, Wicker, now about the blocks. Burgundy Street Burgundy see I lived at Toulouse t o u l o u s e 926 that's right at right at uh Burgundy Street that's strictly French Quarter... oh yes!... all right now that's the heart of the French Quarter, before we leave we'll pass there because we're very close I want you to see this fourteen room house, three three stories high with two swimming pools in the back yard and I'm talking now... you had two swimming pools then? at that time there were two swimming pools in the back yard but remember, there was a wading pool, and there was a swimming pool and there was a patio, this was rented as a result of renting where white folk had lived because these people were living good even during that time things were not say up to par maybe but they were living so much better than we, but anyway I can remember how my mother, more than doubled my mother paid twenty-eight dollars a month for a fourteen room house, and she rented it to the extent she just she probably tripled what she was paying in order to make it good for my sister and myself, and she would buy clothes, from across the street the Volunteers of America, the man, was friendly with my mother, and he would call her when he came in with a very nice batch of good clothing that he had gotten as he said from the sedate ladies who were the Jews or whatever up on Saint Charles Avenue so if I look nice to Dolores Aaron 21

24 you today it's because I always looked nice because my mother would take those clothes and she would redo them because she sewed beautifully, and she would make them for my sister and myself, we were always highly regarded as very neat, well-dressed little girls, and our shoes were hand-me-downs because my mother would buy shoes and everything from over there, but of course nobody knew it at school you don't go to school and tell everybody I got my clothes from the Volunteers of America... [chuckle] you follow me? [chuckle] but we we I think we learned to dress nicely as a result of my mother's ability to send us out looking good and she did that now how did your mother get um, how did get ahold of the house I mean? now my daddy at that time, was working, at the um, at Cross Company, Cross Department Store at Canal Street and, he just became friends with Mr. Highman and people like that people who knew him, and liked him, so, when he talked about what his plans were, it was Mr. Highman who spoke to a Mr. Doll, d o l l, and they, the two of them decided to send my mother to rent get the house, so my mother got the house, said Charlie don't go send your wife and that's what Charlie did but Highman wanted him to have it he felt strongly he was this person who worked for him he wanted him to have it so that's how my mother told me that's how we got the house, my daddy actually made the contact and all she had to do was go through it and she went through it and got it Dolores Aaron 22

25 and got it She got it. She got it and... what did your mother look like at that time? good looking woman my mother was a very pretty woman, very pretty woman, Creole, type person uh... Creole type or Creole? she I wouldn't say I don't want to say my mother was a Creole... okay [laugh] because I really don't my mother, my mother, well her mother her mother was French, and uh my grandfather I understand, was a very very handsome black man, his name was uh, William Harrison and they were from across the river, my grandmother, who was Alice Har- Alice [Bibileau?] as Billips or something like that she has one of these anyways she was from out of town, and uh, my grandfather ran into alot of difficulty because she was a French girl, and uh, he took her from there and didn't marry her for awhile until, uh, years later he married her in Algiers because at that time it was not easy for blacks and whites to marry, but he did eventually marry her like, I'll show you my bible when we get home... yes Dolores Aaron 23

26 ...uh, got a nice tree, but anyway Bibilet that's what my grandmother was Bibilet? Bibilet, she was a, an Alice Bibilet, and her mother, her grandmother who for some reason I understand was an Englishman her grandmother, was a Thompson and my mother married a Thompson isn't that strange? Hmm isn't that something? Mitchell-hmm! my great-grandmother was a Thompson, and my mother married a Thompson. [chuckle] who was very black of course, but anyway, uh, we've done a little checking because it's just interesting where your where your roots are uh, but so, Mama rented the place, we went to school, we walked, from the nine-hundred block of Toulouse Street to the thirty-eight hundred block of Canal Street which is a great distance then, we had to walk uh, ten blocks... mmm so, I would think forty-some blocks back and forth every day, and the only time you got car fare which was seven cents, at that time it was seven cents, the only Dolores Aaron 24

27 way you got car fare was when you were ill, and my sister, who always had problems with her menstrual period, got the car fare, you know how you, you remember that mm-hmm oh yeah! [laugh] she she got the car fare because she always had the cramps, and Mama would give her seven cents and if she really really felt bad, then she could come home with the seven cents, um, we used to stop on Canal Street with all of the kids and find what they call brokers, brokers, brokers were not people who [laugh] who were in the brokerage business we were we would buy the broken potato chips, you see when the potato chips, they would make them and you could stand there and watch them being made in the window, and for everything that was broken you'd just go with a nickel or a dime and... brokers...and you'd buy the brokers and and you share them with everybody who was walking home and everyone every day didn't have money for brokers but whoever had it, they shared it with everyone else and we'd walk them forty some blocks like nothing, I want you to know that I lived, I moved from Toulouse Street to 1026 Burgundy and I'll show you that on the way home, now, that's where Mr. Bill met me at least that's when when I met him at Xavier, uh, at 1026 Burgundy Street, an entirely white neighborhood, I would venture to say, that within six to eight blocks we were the only blacks there, so I lived around nothing but white Dolores Aaron 25

28 folks from from about say about fifteen to twenty-something I was maybe fourteen fifteen years old I was always in a neighborhood, my mother was comfortable... how so? well she was comfortable because people accepted her my mother wanted to be accepted so she could do the best for us, and uh, my, I lived there when my sister had her baby with nobody in the house but the two of us, now that was an exciting day we'll talk about that another time, the baby decided to come... and it came and it came, but my sister had been working with the midwife so she told her what to do and I just did what needed to be done and, got some people to help me by calling to call for the doctor and the nurse, but the baby was there, so I can say that at sixteen years old I helped to deliver a baby, that was, if I had to talk about any experience in my life that was maybe unique, it was, and she treated me well, it was a little girl and she named my niece after me that's sweet yeah yeah yeah she's Dolores like me oh that's sweet Dolores Aaron 26

29 and incidentally she's a broker now, she is a broker [laugh] how about that? [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] she is she is a broker, that's right it wasn't uncomfortable living in a neighborhood with all mostly whites I mean did alot of black people, go into the French Quarter at all? Black people went to the French Quarter there were people here who were even in business because you realize you had that the French Quarter closer to Canal Street was like a red light district I mean there was actually that kind of, of carrying on for instance where we could not even pass on certain streets we would have to walk on Rampart Street my mother saw to it that we walked on Rampart Street because um, up straight up Burgundy Street was just the red light district the ladies were out there hustling and calling calling men into the doors and that kind of thing, uh but there were no black people doing that at the time, all of these women were white and if they weren't white they were passing for white, but they used to put extra powder on their faces anyway they tell me, just to be sure they appeared white I guess because that the men wanted to make sure they were white women uh, even the lady who lived across the street from us when we lived on Toulouse Street she was one of the ladies of the evening oh she was? Dolores Aaron 27

30 she was a lady of the evening oh yeah yeah, but you learned alot uh in that kind of environment if everything is subtle you you're being told what's going on, you you know that you're not going to be a part of it, but that part of my life helped both my sister and myself, I feel that if there had been black folk around there and it's possible I don't know it they were the same kind of people you don't know, but we probably would have been a product of our environment but we didn't play with anyone in the neighborhood, we didn't, I went back to that's why I'm still friends with my my my closest friends are the people who lived in the Treme over on Iberville Street you know out this way all this is my neighborhood, so what do we do? we went to for instance I would leave there to come to church I used to go to Grace Church right up the street here so I was with Era Era Parker, I was with Victor how are you doing I tell you that girl sure is good to you mmm [chuckle] [chuckle] Victor?: everybody says that [laugh] everybody says [end of side A] tape 1: side B...people didn't find her out ( ) happened? I don't know if people even cared remember that was not it was something people really cared about Dolores Aaron 28

31 mm-hmm you see when you live in an area like the French Quarter the French Quarter is made up mostly of businesses and business people so people are more inclined to deal with what their businesses are about, they're not it's not uh, such a stable neighborhood for instance in the French Quarter we didn't visit anyone, because people didn't visit, people who were right next door to you polite, short conversation for instance I can remember and again all of this helped me to become like what I am, feeling good about myself because all I heard when I was a girl especially about my sister who was who was a beautiful girl oh those Thompson girls Mrs. Thompson has the loveliest children well we heard that so much and as Mama would say, just so you think just so it is, so we just felt, people used to say my sister was proper, would say she was proper uh, because she was, ( ) you know, she lived and died like that but I don't think it helps because, I I always say that for instance like that not getting into difficulty as a girl and uh maybe I ought to turn this off [chuckle] [tape pause] just like that but really uh... yeah um...see you didn't you didn't have that, it was not a neighborly situation, okay Dolores Aaron 29

32 most of the people in the French Quarter were uh are there because of some people that they have on the corner if their business wasn't on this corner it was somewhere out there the laundry business the the whatever in most instances, was the white folk most of the residents there were white and they were not uh, mingling with black people anyways so you never had you never had to have problems and it really didn't bother us, it didn't bother us at all now when we lived at 1026 Burgundy there was a lady who lived immediately next door, but she too, was a light skinned woman passing, so, once you found out that, that this was occurring you, you didn't move into it, it was because if you live in a glass house you don't throw stones mm-hmm okay? so, you just took that for granted, you you didn't make any accusations you didn't discuss it with anyone because you so busy trying to keep your own business quiet then why would you talk about the lady next door? Okay? mm-hmm so it was just something that was understood, and, and you learned early, that it was not it was not because when Joyce came to talk with me in my office when she came to my office she said you know we admire you so much because they had been knowing she said I've been keeping up with you for years she said but you haven't forgotten your people, she went into social work and her mother was was just the same way so you know and look what I did, I became what you might Dolores Aaron 30

33 call the almost the savior for the bad kid I haven't shared that with you yet but that was my life's work to work with children that other people did not want to work with that's all I've been doing all my life so I think I think, I am in a position to help young people understand you can be born in poverty, born in it but you don't have to remain in poverty, and something you have to have people who can give that kind of example, somebody who, has always lived in neighborhoods where they couldn't even go to the corner let's say uh, with white kids say unless you were on your way to school but you couldn't do anything too overt, but yet you manage to get along and incidentally I'm one person who has no difficulty in getting along with white folks I have a tendency sometimes to put them in their place mm-hmm but what was it somebody told me this Mrs. Aaron, you just say anything won't you? you just tell it like it is and I've always done that, but I was my mother's child, my mother was that way, a very good teacher, a very fine Sunday school teacher, and I mimicked her, in many ways and I worked with young people my mother worked with young people, I can remember how all the girls came and when they had to write a a welcome address, and my mother was the person to whom they came to help them to formulate the words and they would stand in front of my mother and recite, but can you see how all of that helped my sister and myself? oh yes! Dolores Aaron 31

34 that helps us we thought that this is what you did, so when my sister got the lead at school, nobody was surprised that Bernita got the lead! you understand? she was well-spoken, she was attractive... mm-hmm she was a good looking gal, my sister had pretty legs, my sister had the prettiest ankles, you know I don't know if all women have pretty ankles but my sister had pretty ankles my sister's hands, were just, beautiful, just beautiful and I tell you her lips look like, look like uh, well actually like a heart you know you have a heart for for a Valentine my brother-in-law adored her you said that your sister would have car fare like something like seven cents when she didn't feel well, did you your sister or your mother go on public transportation alot? always my mother had an old Essex an old? Essex e s s e x that's an old car oh! Mama had an old you see my mother was an insurance agent okay Dolores Aaron 32

35 she became an insurance agent for um, um, one of the, one of the insurance companies in New Orleans and so Mama used to travel in the Essex well we would get up early early in the morning as a treat to get a ride, and we would go to the bakery and we would buy hot bread and we would have the butter in the car, and cheese and whatever and we would eat in the car to us that was a treat, to go early when the bakery they have the light on in the bakery when the bread is coming out of the oven and Mama would put us in the car at 5 o'clock in the morning we'd go get and we would go and get bread those were the kinds of things we did with my mother, if my sister went out with a young man, uh, for instance like they would have an uh, let's just say, a celebrity was in town, and and uh, my mother would permit her to go, but my mother would drive she and her boyfriend and we would not come home, we would have, whatever like a late supper in the car, or else we'd go out some place and buy something and we'd come back and sit right outside the place wherever it was and wait for my sister, it's strange, but that's what my mother did my mother used to go to the dances with her and I can see my mother at the PTA dance and and my mother would have me by her side well I was well too young you know to dance and all but my sister and my mother would be saying to us... Male voice: ( ) all right dear always good to see you son Male voice: take care ma'am Dolores Aaron 33

36 my mother would tell her she dancing with the boy she said but you know Bernita was very quiet glum she just and my mother wanted her well my mother, was supposed to be the prettiest girl in Paradise, wherever that is that's where she was from Paradise? is that in Louisiana? that's Paradise Louisiana and, that is where my grandmother my grandmother was a girl in Paradise, and my mother see my mother was the oldest child, and my mother said she would say she was the prettiest girl in Paradise she wasn't in Paradise when she said that she's mimicking what her mother's her mother's life because her mother was supposed to be the prettiest girl in Paradise so that's what my mother she used to go to the dances here, and my mother could go to the [Autocrat?] over on, what street is that Saint Bernard Avenue, the black kids the black girls, boys would go to the Autocrat but only if they were light skinned... oh your mother went to the Autocrat so my mother could go but my aunts, my aunt uh my aunt Celina her sister Leona couldn't go because they had brown skin... mm-hmm... but my mother would go but my aunt was a sweetheart that's the one who loved me so and was so good to me but I didn't care just I didn't care just she might have Dolores Aaron 34

37 gone she said but she brought us everything back she said they used to dance for oranges and fruit at the Autocrat?! at the Autocrat she said they would have the competition but I loved to dance too you see but my mother loved to dance, and my father was a good dancer that's how they met, that's how they met, uh, and of course, mother ( ) anyway he was too so he ran into a little difficultly familywise there but uh, she loved him he gave her uh she said I've never seen a ruby other than red but my mother said well he gave me a red ruby ring I said a red ruby ring mother? yes and she would tell you about that red ruby ring and it seems that my daddy really impressed her when he gave her that ring and asked her to marry him and and she did that was about so your parents married around the end of the war? yeah yeah, mm-hmm yeah and he was a part of that war my daddy was oh he was a veteran? mm-hmm, and she you know how the women are when they in love with a man nobody looks like he looks in his uniform, well you saw my husband's picture you got that yess Dolores Aaron 35

38 was he pretty? he was beautiful! and I met him in that uniform honey! [chuckle] [laugh] he was so pretty in that uniform and that's why that picture is there that picture's there because I always want to remember when I met him, on a Saturday evening, but anyway my mother my mother did well my sister became a nurse and, then later, became a teacher, would you believe that? my sister my sister became a nurse and then she became a teacher. Well she was so creative, she could draw, she played piano well taught herself, my mother bought the piano for us to to busy ourselves with 'cause when we lived in the French Quarter I told you we didn't go outside we certainly did have alot of fun inside my mother loved to sing and I loved to sing my sister then you had all of the roomers Miss Lucille and Inez and and and some of the other people Mr. Henry Picket, he stayed with us until we buried him my husband and I buried him he was the last of my mother's roomers, after my mother died I didn't give it up I simply continued to to take care of the people and he was the last one to die, I just put a new headstone on his on his grave about a month ago but he was the last he lived longer than all of them all of the people who rented from my mother, he was the one who lived the longest and he was good to me when my mother was ill he hung in with us and my husband certainly appreciated it really did yeah but the thing I don't you started to tell me about your mother's car the Essex and... oh Dolores Aaron 36

39 ... I'm not sure about public transportation oh you asked me did we walk yeah... we only took public transportation the only time we got in the car was I told you early in the morning when she took us on little trips but we didn't go to school in the car but you didn't I mean like you didn't get on the street cars? but we had to that's what I'm saying we had to we got we had to get on the streetcars but most of the time we didn't get on the streetcars we walked, that's what I want you to understand yes we only got on the streetcar if it was absolutely necessary, otherwise we walked and that is what gets me with the children today do you realize that, all over the country we bus children well we were not bussed, we walked I know that's hard for you to understand but we walked yes but did you have any bad experiences when you did get on the streetcar? No! No! we just well I call it a bad experience you couldn't sit on the streetcar and sit with the white folk you had to sit in the back I I consider that that a bad experience but remember this if there's something that's as natural as that was, Dolores Aaron 37