Uncorrected Transcript of. Interviews. with. LOME ALLEN and SADIE LYON Undated. and. (W#*ed. by James Eddie McCoy, Jr. Transcribed by Wesley S.

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1 Uncorrected Transcript of Interviews with LOME ALLEN and SADIE LYON Undated and (W#*ed. by James Eddie McCoy, Jr. Transcribed by Wesley S. White The Southern Oral History Program The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Original transcription on deposit at The Southern Historical Collection Louis Round Wilson Library Citation of this interview should be as follows: "Southern Oral History Program in the Southern Historical Collection, Manuscripts Department, Wilson Library, The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill' Copyright 1998 The University of North Carolina

2 [START OF SIDE A] LOME ALLEN AND SADIE LYON NO DATE JAMES EDDIE McCOY: I'm visiting with the Lyons sisters, one is Mrs. Allen and they are going to bring me up on the date when they was walking to school, and what happened Mrs. Lyons, I been having a problem in this community trying this, to decide what school you went to, and in this area, you had a couple of schools that was white, and they converted them to blacks because you people had so far to go. But first, each on of y' all give me your name and your age, and your birthday, and then we going to talk about the church and what went on in your life, in the early part. LONIE ALLEN: My name is Lonie Allen, Lonie Lyon Allen, and I was born at the home, Lyons home, they call it Lyon Town, and I was born on December 22, 1932, and I went to Sharon school, we used to have to walk to school three and one half miles a day, going and coming. Lived in a home with my mother and father on a farm. SADIE LYON: My name is Sadie Lyons, I was born 1920, December the 29 th. I was born in the Lyon family, and I started to school, I went to Sharon School. EM: How old are you? LA: Sixty-six. EM: You sixty six. What age were you when you went to Sharon School, had you missed some years by moving. LA: Yes, I didn't start until I was nine. EM: Nine? Oh well, we'll talk about the church now, and then we'll get back to you about, why don't you start first, tell me about the church because y'all had so many ministers and everything, that I'm mixed up. Give me a little, a little interview about y'all, your religion society, about church, which one you started out in. SL: The first church I started was White, WhiteRock, and I think I was twelve years old when I joined. And then from there, I went to Holding LA: What year? SL: , and then Church of God in Christ. EM: Ok, you still in there?

3 ALLEN, LONIE and LYON, SADIE 2 SL: Yeah. EM: Okay, did you work, you always worked in the church? SL: Yeah. EM: Always helped everybody? SL: Yeah. In the church. EM: You usher and everything? SL: Yeah. EM: They was there when you needed them, and you enjoyed it? SL: Yes, enjoyed it. EM: Ok, you. LA: And I used to, I converted at White Rock Baptist church when I was twelve years old, and I stayed there in White Rock church until 1952, and I became into the Holdness church, uh, became, when I got saved, sanctified, and baptized...() with the Holy Ghost, then I left White Rock, and we became a member of the Church of God in Christ. And I been a member there ever since I lived, stay in North Carolina about five years, and then I moved away to New Jersey, and by not being able to finish my schooling, back then, we only went to seventh grade for finishing grammar school, so by not finishing uh, High School, not finishing grammar school to go to high school, I went on to New Jersey, and when I got there, I went back and got my... EM: GED? LA: GED from eight grade. EM: Mrs. Allen, which one on your side that was a member of White Rock, your father or your mother? LA: Neither one. They both was a member of St. James Baptist church, and my father is yet a member of the St. James Baptist church. EM: Where is that at? LA: That's in Person County.

4 ALLEN, LONIE and LYON, SADIE 3 EM: Could you walk there from here. SL: Uh huh. LA: Yes. We used to walk there, my momma and daddy went to church on third Sunday's, third Saturday's and third Sunday's. And daddy went to church until his health got kind of bad. And he goes now, once and a while, but very seldom. But my mother became saved and sanctified, and she belonged to the holy church. Church of God in Christ. The name of that church is Holy Temple, Church of God in Christ, up in Berea right now. And she yet a member of the Church of God in Christ, Holy church. EM: Is both of your parents from Granville County, or one from Person County? LA: One from Person County one from Granville County. EM: Ok, now the one from Person county, is that the reason they went to St. James Holy Church? LA: St. James Baptist Church. I don't know, but my mother went to St. James, and my father always went to St. James. I don't know EM: So he supported her? LA: They both was members of St. James, I don't know how it come about, and but we used to go with them to their church on, third, second and third Sunday, the third Saturday and third Sunday, and uh, for many years, and then we go to White Rock on second Saturdays and second Sundays. EM: I want you to explain this to kids and people who are going to be listening to the tape, you need to let your nieces and nephews know, that the reason you went to school on Saturdays, what I was taught by the church, that's when y'all took care of all your meetings and different things. LA: Yeah, we took care of business, that was Saturdays, the third Saturday was the business day that we took care of all the business of the church, on the third Saturday. EM: Because people was off, and they could come and too bad. and at night, it's too far, and LA: Right, and, but see, we used to go town, go with our neighbors to their church, we had a neighbor, Mrs. Rose Smith, Rose Smith, she went to...( ) New Hope Baptist church in Granville County, and we used to go with her, on, to her church on first Sundays, and

5 ALLEN, LONIE and LYON, SADIE 4 then we had a uncle that belonged to Goshen church, in Goshen, and we would go with him, we would go to his church on the fourth Sunday. So we was in church every Sunday, but since we become in the Holy Church, now we go to church three or four times a week, during the night, and every Sunday. EM: That's modern time now. LA: But that was the difference in the Holiness and the Baptist, but now the Baptist go to church more through the week than they used to, because they began to do Bible study and extra prayer meeting. We used to have prayer meetings in the home, we used to go from home to home, for prayer meeting. EM: What nights was that? Or did you have a special night? LA: They had prayer meeting, I think on Wednesday nights. And Friday nights before we came into the Holiness. EM: And each homeowner say we coming to my house tonight, you rotate them? LA: Yeah, you went to different homes. EM: That was nice. LA: During the weeks. EM: And y'all would serve a little something? LA: No, we didn't serve anything, we would just go in there and pray, and sing, and testify. EM: about an hour? Or until you finish? LA: Yeah. EM: Ok. Mrs. Allen, I want you to tell, Mrs. Lyons, I want you to tell me, did you go to church, all three of the churches? SL: Yeah, yeah, we all went the same. I went to church, with the same church she went to. On the second Saturday, and the second Sunday at White Rock. Then I would go with my momma to St. James on third Saturday, and then we go on Sunday. And then we go, you know, to the uh, prayer meeting, I would go with, you know the neighbors, where I had prayer meeting, was go to this house, then we go the next house, then we go to the next house.

6 ALLEN, LOME and LYON, SADIE 5 EM: How old you say you is? SL: I'm sixty six. EM: Okay. Do you think that was good, because it gave y'all something to do? Spiritual through the week? SL: Yeah. EM: Ok, tell me what you think about it. Did you look forward, you didn't have no thought... SL: Yeah, we look forward for that night, on Wednesday and Friday for to go to service. But you know I didn't go all the time... EM: I understand, I understand. SL: But we went all, you know, when they would let us go. My mom would let us go. LA: And when we was children, we didn't go to parties and dances and movies and things like that, we went to church and we went to visit our cousins, uncles and relatives like that, and we would play around the house, and play ball and things, but we did go in the service that was available, and oh, the revival come, we could go to all the revivals. EM: You could each one of them? LA: We could go to the revivals, and you know, they would let us go to revivals, but they did not let us go to movies and dances and parties and things. EM: What did you do on Sunday's after you come from church? LA: Oh, we played ball. EM: With your relatives or? LA: Yeah, with or sisters and brothers, and mean with our sisters, I didn't have any brothers then because my brothers was born way, way after I was gone. EM: How many kids, how many sisters and brothers you got? LA: I have twelve sisters and two brothers, I did have three brothers, I just lost one of my brothers about a month ago.

7 ALLEN, LONIE and LYON, SADIE 6 EM: Is the girls older than the boys? LA: Yeah, well, she had eight girls before she had a boy. EM: Tell me, Mrs. Lyons, which, how many of y'all went to uh, Sharon School. That's what I'm here to talk about. Just the number, you can say. How many you think? SL: Well, see I was gone, I don't know how many EM: Okay. SL: You see, I don't know that. EM: Okay, what we'll do is, I'll get back to that later. Tell me something about, you don't have to do that, just tell me something about the school. What, how many years did you go, Mrs. Allen. To Sharon School? LA: I went all of my school term there, because I got married two years after I was out of school, and I got married in EM: Uh huh. Most schools went to sixth and seventh grade LA: And I stared school at six years old, and I went to uh, I finished the seventh grade. EM: And you, all your schooling was at Sharon? LA: At Sharon, until I went to New Jersey, and did the eighth grade. EM: Name the teachers that was in them schools. LA: Oh, we had one teacher, Mrs. Irene To well. EM: Irene To well. Was she from Granville County or Vance County? LA: She from Granville County. EM: Where did she live? LA: Lived in Oxford. EM: Who would she board with, through the week?

8 ALLEN, LOME and LYON, SADIE 7 LA: I think she went to... EM: Uhhuh. LA: No, I don't know; she stayed with... SL: Sadie Field. LA: She stayed in the Sadie Field home. EM: Mrs. Lyons, we weren't going to let her get away with that, we knew that that lady, we knew that. LA: for one year, when I went to Lee Jeffers EM: Who? LA: I went to Lee Jeffers school. EM: Where was that at? LA: That was in, I guess that's in Person County, I'm not really sure, I guess it's in Person County. Lee Jeffers school, it used to be a Lee Jeffers school. I went there for one year. EM: Okay. Now, tell me a teacher that you heard was there before you got there. Before, what's the teacher you was under? LA: I don't know another teacher that was there before I got there, do you know any other teacher that was there before I got there, do you know any other EM: Mrs. Lyon, who did you have? SL: Mrs. Littlejohn, and that teacher what she said... EM: Who did you have? LA: I had Irene Towell. So she had Littlejohn, and Irene Towell. EM: Ok, so Littlejohn was before Towell? LA: Uhhuh.

9 ALLEN, LONIE and LYON, SADIE 8 EM: Ok. LA: And then, the teacher who I used to, uh, Lylo Tee, used to be the first, there was a teacher down there... EM: Who? LA: Lylo Tee Grain. EM: It could be substitutes. LA: Yeah. SL: No, there was a teacher there, she used to teach there. EM: Lylo who? LA: Lylo Tee. EM: Tee? LA: Tee. EM: Ok. Was she from Granville County or from Person County, who did she stay with? LA: I don't know she stayed at home I reckon. SL: she stayed... EM: What was that last name? LA: A Green. EM: Lylo Green? SL: Uhhuh. EM: Ok. Uh, how many miles do you think it was, both y'all walking the same place... SL: about a half mile, they told us.

10 ALLEN, LONIE and LYON, SADIE 9 EM: () half miles? LA: That's what they say. because we was like a mile from the road, SL: We stayed way over back in yonder. LA: We was a mile from the road, and we walked all the way to the school. Now, you count it, can you estimate that? EM: I think about four miles, one way. LA: About four miles, okay... EM: What time would you get up going to school? LA: () but we had to be in school by school time. EM: Okay, now, were you SL: It took in nine o'clock I believe. EM: Probably was because they didn't want it to Were your parents share croppers or what kind of farming?... LA: Share croppers. EM: Who's farm was y'all farming on? LA: Well, it was our farm, it was my father's farm for a long time, it was the Lyon's farm from our time, but then they lost it some how, didn't pay the taxes. EM: And who took it from them? LA: Henry Tharp. Old man Henry Tharp. EM: He took everything everybody had up here didn't he. He made your father put it up for collateral and didn't want him to pay him back, and made him sign some papers owing him some more money, I know that's what happened to it. Now, SL: We don't know that's what happened, because my uncle... EM: Was that his father's farm?

11 ALLEN, LOME and LYON, SADIE 10 LA: Yes. EM: Did you ever see your... LA: We never saw, I never saw my grandfather, I saw my grandmother. EM: What did they say about your grandfather? LA: I don't know too much about my grandfather. I know he was a builder, he was building on a house that we lived in, and he died before he finished it. EM: Did he build all, some of these barns and different things around these churches? LA: I don't, that I don't know, nobody never told me. I have a aunt that's still living, she may could tell you more about it () I know one thing, we as, my father's children all was born in the same house, except three right. Two. EM: Who was the midwife? LA: She had different midwifes. I think she had Mrs. Jeanie Tharp for some of the children, then she had Mrs. Flossie Harris. EM: Who else? LA: And I don't know who else. SL: Then the doctor. Dr. Toney... LA: And Dr. Toney...I think she only had the doctor maybe once or twice. EM: I like to know who the midwives are. I like that. LA: Mrs. Jeanie Tharp. EM: And she didn't have to be y'alls...just name any of them you heard of, because... LA: Mrs. Jeanie Tharp, and I know Mr. Flossie Harris, late Flossie Harris, well, both of them are late now, and... SL: And I don't know who, I can't recall the woman when you and Jill was born. EM: Yeah, we'll get that later. Where did you get your books from?

12 ALLEN, LOME and LYON, SADIE 11 LA: I don't know where they got the books from. I can't remember, I'm a mother of fourteen children, now you know, now much can I remember. EM: If you got that many children I'm interviewing you a thousand times. LA: I can't remember all them things, I've gone through too much. EM: You don't remember where the books and stuff come from? SL: No, I know they was at the school. EM: Ok. LA: But we had used books, and they had other people name in it, so we think we had the books from the white school. EM: Mrs. Lyons, when you went to that school, what y'all went, six months, or nine months? SL: We went went... EM: Was you still living, did your father still own the land while y'all was going to school? SL: Uhhuh. EM: This transfer after y'all had left school? SL: Yes. EM: That's what I mean. Okay, so Mrs. Lyons, what do you think that you was in between Berea School and Sharon? SL: Yeah. EM: And one was just as close as the other one, or you had better teachers up here than you had over in Berea, what did you heard, or what happened? SL: Well, we didn't know about the better teacher none, we just, all we know momma sent us to Sharon School. EM: What I want you to tell me now, name the kids that went to Sharon School, other than y'all. Some of the children that went along with you.

13 ALLEN, LONIE and LYON, SADIE 12 LA: Oh, Uncle Ben's children and all them? EM: Yeah, name the names. LA: Oh, Alice and Mary Lee, Ben Williams, EM: Is this, is this one man's children you naming? LA: Right. EM: Okay name his name. LA: Alice. EM: Alice, what was his, the father, Alice father? LA: Uh huh, and Mary Lee, and Anna Lee Tharp, and Ben William Tharp, see now. EM: You can go to another family if you know somebody, Mrs. Lyons. SL: Leon, Elizabeth... EM: Talk a little louder. SL: Elizabeth, and Carnell, and little Neil and Sula. EM: What are their last names? SL: Lyon. EM: All these are Lyons? Okay. Wait a minute now. Let's get to this. The Lyons had a school by themselves. Is what y'all telling me. That ain't fair, [laughing] You can't help that, did you. LA: No, it was enough of us to have school by ourselves, I just don't know the year that they cut Sharon School out, see, I had, I got married in 1950,1 was gone... EM: And school was still going on... LA: That's right, I can't think when they cut the, when they closed the school, because see, I never got a chance to ride a bus to school anymore when I stayed with my aunt.

14 ALLEN, LONIE and LYON, SADIE 13 EM: Now, y'all tell me if somebody went to school that wasn't a Lyon, [laughing] LA: Well, see, now the family that I call, their mother was a Lyon, but she married a father, and all of them that she called, their father was a Lyon the mother was something else, but they were ()? EM: Can y'all think of something, a child that came from that way? LA: Yes. Uh, Johnny Tharp, uh, and his children were named. One's Aletha Tharp, Thelma and oh gee, Johnny, Jimmy Lee. EM: That's ok, name somebody else. LA: Uh... SL: Can't you name of the...( ) LA: Oh, yeah, Enin Harris, Ed Harris, James Harris, EM: Are they your cousins too? LA: No, they weren't no kin. These folks weren't no kin, where I'm calling. SL: The one's in the family EM: Ok, that's ok. LA: I can't, I can't call all of her children. Ed and Lucille, you didn't even call Moses, Moses Lyon. EM: Moses Lyon, his kids went there too? LA: No, Moses Lyon was a kid, he was my first cousin. EM: Ok. I'm Eddie McCoy, and Mrs. Allen and Mrs. Lyons, they got to go to church, and I promised them 15 minutes, and I will get with them again. And uh, I appreciate them staying with me for fifteen minutes, and I'll get back, but I just needed this history, so they wouldn't get away from me. Thank You. [TAPE CUTS OFF]

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