18:56 Interviewer- Why don t we start off the interview by you telling me what name you go

Transcription

1 Interview Narrator: Sister Joan Groschen, CSJ, Sister of St. Joseph Interviewed by: Bridget Barrett Location of interview: Sister Joan s apartment, Carondelet Village, St. Paul, MN Date: Nov. 5, :56 Interviewer- Why don t we start off the interview by you telling me what name you go by. 19:03 Sister Joan-Hello. My name is Sister Joan Groschen, Joan Katherine Groschen. I have been a sister for quite a long time. I was called Sister Leonie. And the funny thing about that is my father would never call me Leonie he always called me Joanie Leonie. [laughs] 19:34 Interviewer- So is that your baptismal name? 19:35 Sister Joan- Joan Katherine is my baptismal name. 19:38 Interviewer- So then did you change it when you joined the convent? 19:42 Sister Joan- Yes. Yes 1948 I got a new name and then I went back to my own name about 1965 or so. I like being back to my own name. It feels good. 20:00 Interviewer- So where were you born? 20:02 Sister Joan- I was born in St. Mary s hospital in Minneapolis. July 20, Sounds old now but I don't feel terribly old. So I guess it is okay. 20:19 Interviewer- Is that where you grew up then? 20:20 Sister Joan- I grew up in North Minneapolis. For a couple of years, maybe the first three or four years, I was in Northeast Minneapolis. All four of my grandparents lived in Northeast Minneapolis. But then we moved across the river to North Minneapolis and my dad had a job over there in a grocery store. So, we all worked there it was just a great place, Theisen s Market on Broadway. 20:55 Interviewer- Were you raised in a Catholic family? 21:01 Sister Joan- Home? Oh, yes. We were very catholic. We belonged to the Ascension Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 1

2 Parish. And whether we lived on Fourth Street or Fifth Street or Girard Avenue North we always belonged to Ascension. It was a great place to be from. 21:32 Interviewer- Are there any other Catholic Sisters or clergy in your family? 21:34 Sister Joan- No other sisters in my family. Is that what you asked me? 21:39 Interviewer- Mhm. 21:39 Sister Joan- Nope. We never had one that I know of. 21:46 Interviewer- How many siblings do you have? Or are you an only child? 21:50 Sister Joan- Oh, no. I m not the only one. My mom and dad lived in Northeast all their life. But when they had their first child it was a boy. A little boy and his name was Paul. He had Spina Bifida and Spina Bifida is bad and they didn t know what to do with it in those days. So he only lived for ten months. I tried to imagine how sad that was for my mom and dad. Of course they knew that he would not survive very long. But when he died at ten months, somehow I think it brought them closer together. I have a little theory that if they lose a child they either break apart or they get closer together. I m sure my mom and dad got closer together. They were wonderful parents. And so then came Joan, I was the oldest. Oh my, you can imagine how I was pampered and loved and everything. I had it all. Then about a year and a half later my sister Rita, then another year and a half my sister Carol. The three girls were pretty prominent in that household. Then it took five years before the boys started coming. We had three boys, Bill two years, Don two more years Ralph. The six of us is what we always thought of because we didn t know Paul, hadn't met him. I can t wait to get to heaven though; I want to meet him so much. That was our family, dad and mom were always around and working hard and taking good care. Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 2

3 24:05 Interviewer- That was a beautiful story. What is the name of the community you belong to? 24:11 Sister Joan- I am a Sister of St. Joseph of Carondelet, St. Paul Province. It s really no strange thing that if I was going to be a sister that would be the group I joined. I had those sisters teaching me kindergarten through high school. What a privilege! Ascension had a great big, great school so we all went there and loved it. Ascension was special because it not only had the great big school building for six, seven hundred kids. I m not sure how many were there. But there was another separate standing building. That building was called The Club. [Laughs] It had a swimming pool, it had a bowling alley, it had a first floor of club rooms, dance studio, and on the top floor was a gym. We played a lot of basketball and all sorts of things and we had good programs. It had a stage and so we were putting on plays and things like that. It was a great place to be from. By the way I am dyslexic and I didn t know the whole time I was in grade school. I thought I was pretty dumb because reading and math, and multiplication tables were just terrible. I had lots of fun with athletics and games and that kind of thing. Big, big swimmer I was in those days. But anyway, then for high school I went back to Northeast Minneapolis. My mom had gone to St. Anthony high school, taught by the Sisters of St. Joseph of Carondelet of the St. Paul providence. So here I was going to school right where my mom had and all three girls went to St. Anthony High school. We all graduated and did what we were supposed to do, I guess. And then after graduation I decided I wanted to be a Sister and so that is what I did. My dad helped me with it. I'm going to tell a little story When we went over to see about joining the Sisters my dad came in and he said, Well Sister, I want to look this place over and see if it's good enough for my daughter. And Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 3

4 she said to him, Well Mr. Groschen while you are looking us over we will look over your daughter and see if she is good enough for us. [Chuckles] Well, they became fast friends that very day. Dad always looked her up [chuckles] when he came on visiting Sunday. But anyway I think it is a rather good story because that is how he felt about it. He was a really good dad. 27:19 Interviewer- Where is your Mother house located? 27:21 Sister Joan- Right here in St. Paul near the college of St. Catherine. We started in France in The Bishop in St. Louis asked for some sisters so they sent five sisters in They came to New Orleans, then they came up the river to St. Louis and that is where the big deal was for a mother house. It was in the suburb called Carondelet and the joke about that is that Carondelet was named after a civil war general. So it wasn t all that holy or anything [chuckles] it was just a location. But anyway, our Sisters are still in St. Louis. Then in 1851, they came up the river and settled in St. Paul. In the first little log cabin they had children come to school and they were going to teach them to read. That worked good until the cholera epidemic struck. Then that little house, that little log cabin was just turned into a hospital. We still have St. Joseph's hospital and that is how it started. It was pretty challenging I would think, but we have been here ever since. Then little by little, in I believe, they came out here to start the college of St. Catherine. They had to walk about six blocks when they got off the trolley. The college is more than a hundred years old. I wouldn t have been able to go to college if I hadn t joined the Sisters. I was really happy about that. So I went to St. Catherine's and I got my degree. It look many years because we only went to school on Saturdays and summers. To think I Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 4

5 entered in 1948 and I got my bachelor s degree in It was a long process, to get that BA, (Laughs) but very worth it. 31:30 Interviewer- It was fine. I like that story. So in what ways does your vocation shape your way of being in the world? 31:40 Sister Joan- Well when you got to be a sister in those days, you were pretty locked up and in training. The novitiate was two years long. I remember my mom having a joke about that. I went over to St. Catherine s one day and I met a women, that we had been neighbors with back at Ascension parish, and I said, Mom! Guess who I met?! It was this lady that she knew and I knew and I said, She married John Sulcheor. Mom said, Oh, I thought you knew that. I said, No mom I didn t know that. Mom replies, I suppose that happened when you were all locked up and you didn t know nothing. (Laughing) Well anyway that was just her first opinion. 32:42 Interviewer- Yeah. 32:43 Sister Joan- Well you know when you want to be a sister you do what they tell you to do. It was a lot of school, it was a lot of prayer, and every day you went to Mass I was really happy with it. So happy with it that my next sister Rita who was a year and a half younger than I, one day said, That looks pretty good dad; maybe I should become a Sister. And he said, here I will help you. So he encouraged her to join us here at the novitiate and to see if she liked it. Well she lasted about six weeks I think, maybe six months, but anyway not very long and he said, Honey, I will be Johnny on the spot to pick you up if you don t like it. But I want you know that you tried it and you don t want to be a Sister or you do want to be a Sister." I found out later that one of his sisters every time something went wrong with her marriage, she would say to the family, I should Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 5

6 have been a Sister. Well he didn t want his daughter doing that. It was a nice experience for me to have her here for a little bit, but she always knew she didn t want to be a Sister. 34:12 Interviewer- Are there any experiences you feel you wouldn t have been able to have if you didn't become a Sister? 34:19 Sister Joan- Oh many, many, many. Yes! Going to college, getting my degree was a big one. Just the fact that you could go to mass every day that was pretty important to me at the time, still is. Let's see what else. I have gotten to do things that I never would have had a chance to do. I probably would have just gotten married and been a little mom, but I have been to Guatemala, I got to go down there twice. I joined another Priest and Sisters and we gave a retreat for the Sisters who work down there. (Pause in Interview) 37:43 Hannah- They are interesting stories though. 37:46 Sister Joan- Oh, thank you. Yeah. So I m kinda telling you what advantages I had or things that happened that were extra special. 38:06 Hannah- Ready? (Giggles) Three two one 38:15 Sister Joan- Going to Guatemala was a great experience I have not been out of the states, ever. Going down there with this little team of four of us to give a retreat for the Sisters who work down there, it was great. So I did see we had a parish down there, and it was a companion to one of the parishes up here. Father Greg Schaffer was in that parish but he was from this diocese. So it was like going to serve him and his people. We were down there for two weeks or so. That was 1980 and would you believe I got to go back in 1982 and we did it again. That was the only time I have been out of the United States but what a privilege. I was just so honored to be able to do that. It was a little over two weeks each Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 6

7 time. The other things that probably come to mind when I think of the privileges I had being a Sister, besides college and going there. I don t know just the advantages of being in service at perishes, getting to know so many wonderful people in all these different parishes. For a little while I taught grade school and grades three, four, five or six in any combination. Four and six, fifty kids in a class it was a little challenging at the time but I realized they were good kids. We got along fine so I did that for almost twenty years. Then I got the job of being a religious educator at a parish. I made the switch down in St. Paul Park. I taught for four years and then I became the parish coordinator for adult education and sacraments and kids and teens and everybody. I loved it there I was there for about nine years. I still keep in touch with some of those people, which is a very nice opportunity. Then I came to St. Luke's and by this time it was getting to be thirty years since I had joined the convent. I don't know how many sisters have ever done this, or how I had enough guts to do it but, I went to my sisters who are in charge, "You know I worked for 30 years and if you give me one year off I will come back and work for 30 more." And she said, Go. [Laughs] Wasn't that a wonderful answer, so I got a whole year off. For a couple months I did retreat work down in another city in Minnesota. Then I got to go to Maine and join two sisters out in the country. I milked a goat and I just went around and I had so much fun. I was there for most of the month of September and October. Then in November they said, well you can't be here anymore because we have to feed you out of our garden. So I had found another place. I went to Tennessee and I found the Sisters of Loreto. They had a big, big farm and it was their mother house. I got a little cottage in the woods and it was my cottage, two stories and I could sit in the balcony on the second story and swing my feet over the edge, it was great. There were Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 7

8 four other cottages so they were four of us out there and we would eat together on Sunday but for the rest of the time you just did our own thing. You could read or walk around in the woods or do anything. That was great. I did that from August till the following June. It was a really great year. I was so grateful and I kept my promise. It is now thirty four years since I came back. So when I said I worked for 30 years and I will come back and work for 30 more I did it and that makes me glad too. How blessed to be having such good health that I can make a joke out of that, it is pretty wonderful. 43:36 Interviewer- So what is your congregation's mission? 43:40 Sister Joan- When the Sisters of St Joseph talk about mission it's to spread the love of Jesus wherever we are able and to help people. Service is kinda like what we do you know, so if you're not a teacher you might be a nurse. You know some of us are social workers and lots of teachers, lots of teachers at college level, high school level, grade school. I think that love the dear neighbor without expectation is our call. Everyone is your neighbor so that is what I think of. 44:58 Interviewer- At what age did you become a novice? 45:01 Sister Joan- Eighteen. 45:02 Interviewer- Eighteen. What year was that? 45:04 Sister Joan September 1948 is when I join the community. And I've been here ever since. And they can't get rid of me. (Laugh) 45:18 Interviewer- Is there anything you like to share about your involvement in mission? 45:24 Sister Joan- My process of mission work? 45:26 Interviewer- Mhm. 45:27 Sister Joan- Well, what would I like to say? In the early days 1948 probably to 1970, you Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 8

9 know we were pretty much told, that we need a teacher at the school, go to St. James, go to Holy Spirit, go out to Graceville, go here, go there, wherever. They had an opening they wanted you to fill. Good and then 1970 there was quite a change and you could look for your own job, that's when I started. They assigned me to St. Paul Park where I taught 4th grade and that's when the opening started when I could do Religious Ed for the whole parish. And so that's where I made the switch it to the Religious Ed part. So I did that till I went out to the diocese of New Ulm. I worked with Bishop Lucker. Well, there is another piece I should remember to tell you. Anybody who knows Bishop Lucker knew that was great privilege, because he had this big building and we all live there. There were about four Priests and the Bishop and about seven, eight Sisters. And then we would go out from there to work all these ninety-six parishes out in the country way out towards the South Dakota border. We had great community you know, we had mass, and we had dinner. The bishop would cook food every once in a while, he was a great gardener. He was a holy man and I do so appreciate that I was able to do that. You know it was just a very special thing. So I started working there when I got back from my year off. That's where I went to work 1980 and I stay there for 6 years. So I was going around to all these little parishes say, Oh you can do it, come on, come on, come on. and meeting certain people that I got to know pretty well. That experience broadened me a lot because I was driving so many miles. I got to all these parishes but I know how to drive, I love to drive. It wasn't hard work it was just when you would come home... We had our offices and our living quarters all in this great big building. It was great, it was really great. 48:18 Interviewer- Did you take your final vows then? Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 9

10 48:23 Sister Joan- Those final vows came in For me they weren't such a big deal, you know. We did get a special retreat and we did some special things but, for the most part I had decided I was going to be a Sister so the first vows were to me just as important as final vows. 49:07 Interviewer- What vows did you take? 49:09 Sister Joan- In our community you take a vow of poverty, and you take a vow of chastity and a vow of obedience; poverty, obedience and chastity. I think often of the vow of poverty. I now live in this large beautiful building. We helped build this beautiful facility where I am living right now. We helped build it because the land was ours and somebody gave us a pretty big grant to go 50/50 with Presbyterian homes. So here I am with a vow of poverty and I am living in this wonderful apartment. Oh my gosh, this building is just... I wish everybody could see it because this building is just lovely and 150 of our sisters out of 200 live here. And the others will be coming little by little. Our leadership Sisters chose to do this because; we had 1,300 Sisters in Now we are down to 200 which is what's happening and I don't know what God has in mind. I mean how would I know. But what I do know is that our leadership Sisters asked how will we take care of our last Sisters and so we made this joint venture with Presbyterian homes and so now we are 50/50 with them which means any Sister who wants to live here has some priority over others and so here I am in this wonderful place saying "oh wow-y, but anyway God is good and I'll keep doing the best I can. I forgot to tell you one change that I made. After I finished religious education that was about 1996 when I wasn't going to do that anymore because my mom was getting old and so I said I would prefer to come back to the cities. So I would be near for her and then we started up a new ministry and it was called Sister Care It was a whole bunch of us Sisters from many different Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 10

11 communities it wasn't just Sisters of St Joseph although, we started it. And we would go out; we would do a couple people a day. Go to their house, clean their kitchen, give them a bath, do whatever they wanted to do actually and we called that Sister Care and I did that for 12 years. It was really great! All those old people just loved it when we came. Company, plus you get a little work done but Sisters Care had to close down in 2007 and that was a sadness for many of us because, we were just doing fine. We just couldn't get enough sisters to really fill the bill but what we had started did not die. It was great, a lady down at the park a couple miles down the road she said, you know we have a lot of services for the people in our neighborhood and West 7th neighborhood and we don't have housekeeping." She took our program just as it was in some of the Sisters actually went with her and she put it right down in her building and they started giving special care to the people they serve in their neighborhoods. Well, I didn't go down there with that change but that was just a show, it showed how good that program was and how wonderful it was for those people to get that extra care. So, since 2007 I have been kind of retired but that's okay I can find things to do around here. [Laughs] 54:03 Interviewer- What kind of things do you find to do? 54:05 Sister Joan- Here well these are all little bitty job but twice a month a couple of us go round and we can buy in Big Lots wholesale toilet paper, Kleenex, mouthwash [Giggles] toothpaste, toothbrush whatever kinds of things everybody needs, all the Sisters need. So twice a month we bring the cart around and go to these forty of our Sisters and they get what they need without having to go to the store. And actually it's a good deal because then we can buy wholesale. So I do that twice a month. And then if a Sister dies there are two of us that work together and clean the room of her possessions. She doesn't need Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 11

12 them anymore so we try to put them in a place where others can use them or we give them away or we send them. One place that I really like that we send our some of our extra things, the things that we don't need any more we send them to our school and our school is called Learning in Style. And our Sister started it and teach there but, the building itself is used for a school to teach immigrants who live right across the street in the big, big area of low income housing. They just walk across the street and come to classes and they bring their kids because we have a nursery or a child care center. Now we started to send things over there and all they have to do is go in the garage and take whatever they can use which is a great way to get rid of the things that we don't need anymore. So that all works out really good and so I help with that. And then when Sisters move, if you moved from an apartment that is bigger to an apartment that is really small then you can't get everything in so then we have to take some of the things that they can't use anymore. So then we either send them to Learning in Style for our people over there or maybe sort them out among the Sisters here. Maybe I've got something another sister could use so we just try to share, so I help with that. So those are a couple things. Oh, and then there is on call. On call is when, there is one telephone and whenever one of our Sisters need some special help, call that number and whoever has the phone gets to go and see what they need or what to do. Once in a while it's called take a Sister to the hospital but, more and more now we are catching on how to get to the hospital during the day and not at night. But, I have been asked to do that and so I do that, I don't know whatever there is something I can do I do it. And I have such good health, oh God thank you! How can you say thank you for wonderful health? Eighty five years old and I still Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 12

13 got really good health. So I say thank you by using it. [Laughs] That's a pretty good idea I think. 57:49 Interviewer- Are there any other ways that your vows have shaped your experience as a Sister? 57:59 Sister Joan- Well, I'm sure that it has. My vows are precious to me. It's a group of women who really try to be neighbor to each other and to love each other and to do what we can to make each other s lives as good as we can and we don't always measure up you know but it's pretty good. (Laughs) I know I just feel like we are so taken care of that it's a privilege, how did I know when I was eighteen that I was going to get such a good life. 59:33 Interviewer- How would you describe religious life to young women wanting to join the community? 59:38 Sister Joan- Oh well, now that is kind of challenging, we haven't had any women come for several years. One young woman tried it she took the two years of Novitiate and then she just said, you know I can't do this all alone, there are no other young Sisters. I have a theory and I'll just share it with you. If God wants the Sisters of St Joseph, St Paul to continue I think that there are some young woman that we work with. I'll explain that program it s called The St. Joseph Workers. I think that out of that group which is eight - ten women a year, has been going for about ten to twelve years. I think that it is perfectly possible that God might say, five or six of them, we started with six in France in But I think that if God wants it to go again I think there are women who are at the St. Joseph Worker program that stay with us for eleven months and they work with us. They work in our ministries they learn a lot about the Sisters. They come around and see who Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 13

14 we are and what we are up to and hear our history and hear our story and if that would create a desire in any one of them or six of them, I think that they might just say, well let's all just be Sisters of St. Joseph's now and, let's start the community again, and they would start it up. It would be totally different from what we had. We had a lot of silence, we had a lot of you don't go home now and you wear this big black habit, you know and it was different. But if another small group of women would start to be Sisters of St. Joseph I know that they would be encouraged, they would be helped by our younger Sisters, who are now able, they would learn even more about how and what our vows mean to us. I think it would work, I think that it's possible that might be. I'm just giving God a good hint how to start again. But I don't know really how they would do it but, I think it would work that way because; many of them really like our community. Now they just finished college, how they can do that with their college debt and still come and give us a whole year of service I don't know but, it amazes me. They're wonderful young woman and they get to know us pretty well. So you know, if that would be the way it was start up again I think they'd figure out what they meant by poverty, chastity, obedience. I just hope so but I don't know. 63:05 Interviewer- So why don't you tell me a little bit about your community. How is it organized and structure? 63:11 Sister Joan- It's organized, in the olden days a long time ago we used to have one main, Major Superior, Mother General, that kind of assistants thing. And then she would have two assistances and they would kind of visit us and wherever we were teaching, working or doing the hospital or whatever and they would be very knowledgeable Sisters. I think they had about a five-year term and I like that very much because I think it isn't one person gets in charge and Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 14

15 then she stays in charge forever no, it s five or six years. And then they would find another three people who would do that ministry and it was a real job for them and they would get to know the Sisters. Our community is organized in such a way that we now have three Sisters, one isn't Mother General anymore all three of them are. We call them our coordinating team. So they work together to do the jobs that need to be done. It's a pretty big job but one would be a special link to this college, one is the special link to this building, one is a special link to other things, and so that administration seems to work pretty well. And of course we have us, ordinary Sisters. We can go see them anytime we want or call them up to see what about this and what about that. And so besides that little team of three, we have committees: we have the car committee. They see that those Sisters need a car, want a car, we can use a car, get one. This is our little book and it's got all of us in here plus it's got all our consociates. We know each other and we are in touch with each other. And this book really helps us because it's got all the positions and all the jobs and all of everything and its brand new , we got it last week. It's very handy. 67:07 Interviewer- That's very handy. 67:08 Sister Joan- It's very handy, if you wanna call up somebody who doesn't live here, that's a help too. 67:16 Interviewer- So do you live with any other Sisters now? 67:19 Sister Joan- Well I have lived with many, many other sisters you know over the years. I love the St. Luke's, we had a big convent, we had about sixteen sisters living there. When I came to Carondelet Village here we had a double apartment and so I lived with another Sister. She was sickly and so after about a year had to go live in assisted living which are singles which meant that I didn't keep the double. I came to this apartment and I live in a single apartment, it is very nice. I have a bedroom and a closet, kitchen, its way spiffy for Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 15

16 somebody who's got a vow of poverty. I say yeah but I got a vow of obedience so they told me to go, so I went. (Laughs) 68:27 Interviewer- Does your community have a common schedule? 68:30 Sister Joan- You know we use to have a very strict schedule. That s a good question. It used to be prayer was at this time, mass was at that time, dinner was at this time. And the buildings that you folks have seen, the buildings, those four building there's a big chapel we call the provincial house on one side of it and Carondelet Center on the other side. And a little office building of two stories out in front of the chapel, those are still our buildings and our administration and most of the other things that we do. 69:23 Interviewer- Do you have a common schedule? 69:24 Sister Joan- Oh, a schedule. Well once you moved over here we can go and eat wherever you want. I always had someone cooking for me and now I can cook for myself. Well believe me I'm learning a lot. [Laughs] And so sometimes I like to eat by myself and cook enough for me. I can just fix squash and now I know how to pick squash. If you never did it before it's kind of fun. But again here at Carondelet Village we have food available in the Bistro, we have seven dining rooms; the Bistro is just a little restaurant. You pick up food and carry it away on a tray. We have a formal dining room and then we have a dining room for those in assisted living, we have a dining room for those in the care center. So the poor kitchen people they really do their work and then get ready for all these different places to serve food. So that getting to cook for myself is kind of fun. I'm enjoying it. 71:06 Interviewer- Oh, just your schedule. 71:08 Sister Joan- Yeah, so the schedule thing is very different. Some sisters choose to pray at Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 16

17 4:30 because they like to pray together. We call it an office book and there are two different places where that goes on at 4:30. There is another schedule that you eat with people in the Bistro at 11:30 or you eat with whoever you want to eat with. So it is a lot more flexible and free here. Unless you go visit somebody or call them up and say, hey let s do this, let s do that. You re pretty much on your own. I can do what I can/ want to do. The schedule is much less important than it used to be. 72:13 Interviewer- What did it use to be? 72:15 Sister Joan- Well, it used to be we got up at six and the bell rang, and then you went to prayer, and then you went to breakfast, and then you went to classes, and then you went... you know it was all programmed down. 73:15 Interviewer- How much flexibility did you have to choose where you live? 73:20 Sister Joan- Where I live? Well still it's kind of a respectful thing that I can ask to live here, I asked to live at the provincial house when we gave up our little rented house. We lived there for twelve years. I lived with four sisters you know just in the neighborhood. And when we decided it was time to give that home back to the owner and get it cleared out of our stuff. Well then, two of us came and lived at what we called the provincial house and two others went to live in a different apartment building in the neighborhood and that lasted about three years that we lived like that. And all the sudden this place was ready and so everybody who lived at the provincial house, everybody who lives in our care home for the elderly called Bethany, all of us came over here and we were invited to come. It wasn't like you go live there now, nothing like that. You are invited to go, and boy was it a wonderful place to come to. We had a choice and so yes, in a way we could Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 17

18 choose but another way we were helped a great deal to find the proper living space and to have what we needed. 75:18 Interviewer- Why don't you tell me a little bit about your educational journey? Did you go to Catholic schools? 75:23 Sister Joan- I did, Ascension, Saint Anthony, and then the College of Saint Catherine. But I got a Masters in Detroit, at the University of Detroit and that took about five years because you only went summers. That was my educational journey and of course we're so lucky we get little workshops here and there we get to do this and that. Those still go on and so I feel like I've been getting educated for my whole life. 76:11 Interviewer- What was your highest level of education? 76:13 Sister Joan- Well that MA, formal education that would have been when I got in Michigan but, if I hadn't become a Sister I probably wouldn't have gone to college at all because we didn't in my family. My mom had gone to college, would you believe, my mom went to the Mcphail School of Music. She was a piano teacher. We were so proud of her. But dad didn't get to finish high school because his dad was sick. You know it's just so different for different families and you don't all get to go to college, at least you didn't back in the 30's and 40's but, I did. Haha. 77:02 Interviewer- Could you take me through your ministries and positions? 77:11 Sister Joan- Oh what did I do in my ministry well, I got them written down. I started off being a 4th grade teacher and I did that at St. James, Holy Spirit, Nativity, Graceville, Hopkins and St. Paul Park about five or six, seven parishes that I taught in their schools. And then when I did the Director of Religious Education and for the whole parish. I did it at St. Paul Park, I did St Luke's. And that's what I had my year off and then I went to Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 18

19 work for Bishop Lucker so that ministry was the whole Diocese of New Ulm. After I finished that I came back here and for two years I was a director of novices. We had novices. [Laughs] Well anyway, I did that for two years and then I ran back out in the country at a place we had five perishes way out by the South Dakota border. And we work together, two Priests and three Sisters and we each lived in a parish in a town and we had our own rectory and our own church and our own everything but, we did everything together. And so I took care of that education out there and then when I finish that I came back to the cities because Mom was getting ninety four-ish and that's when I got into Sisters Care for twelve years and that was a great ministry! I really liked it, and since then I have little pieces of jobs but I like what I do around here, so it works. 79: 17 Interviewer- Are there any key turning point in your ministries? 79:21 Sister Joan- Big turning points? Well I think when I change from grade school teacher to coordinator Director of Religious Ed. That was kind of big but luckily I was in the same parish and I had learned the parish pretty well before I had made that change. And of course going to work for Bishop Lucker was a big deal and getting to live in his community and all of that that was a big turning point for me. I just got back from my year off and I had six years of ministry that was great. I went to work again in Religious Ed, and later I think I was out there in the country for six years too. When I came back to the cities and worked for Sisters Care, so it's been good. 80:27 Interviewer- What has been the most gratifying work that you've done? 80:31 Sister Joan- Oh, satisfying? Well, you know since I didn't think of myself as a very big scholar I certainly didn't think of myself as being a very big teacher. I think I have to say Sisters Care; working with the elderly people was really a favorite. They were so glad Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 19

20 to have you there and they were so happy to see you and we were happy to see them. So I think that might be my favorite work and that was twelve years. 81:17 Interviewer- Can you tell me about your community s prayer life and spirituality? 81:22 Sister Joan- Our prayer life, yes I can. For me the high point of everyday is daily Mass. And I get there almost every day. I have since I've joined, and somehow that always kinda fit in. And that to me was our privilege. But I really believe most Sisters pray for things like, oh God help me, that kind of thing, I don't know. I think I find this is very prayerful and I wonder if I'm prayerful enough to keep up some days, I guess God is probably okay with it. 83:11 Interviewer- In your opinion how did Vatican II change things for religious women in the US? 83:16 Sister Joan- Good question. Vatican II for me I would say that I didn't have a huge big effect on me, yes things changed in the parishes, yes things changed to a degree in our community. But in our community I think it made it less rigid, you know at least this is how I think about it. It wasn't if you miss your prayers you re a sinner and you're going to go to Hell or something like that, none of that. I think it made us realize that prayer is ongoing and Vatican II at least for me just made me want to pray and made me want to do those things. And so for me Vatican II wasn't very big deal that bangs down some doors or something like that. I don't know I just kind of flowed with it and whatever changes came along for me they seemed good changes and you're invited not demanded you know. You get here for prayer or else, you know that kind of thing, na. Vatican II at least I found that it made it more like, oh we could go to prayer now. 85:04 Interviewer- So I know you said that there aren't any young women joining the Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 20

21 community right now. If that changes what would be something you'd want to be passed down to them? 85:17 Sister Joan- Oh, good question. Okay, did you make up these questions? They're very good questions. What would I want passed down? Our Constitution, it's a little book that has what we do in it. And we've got a couple little books that kind of give the rationale that we use to be Sisters and it helps us to know how to do it. 86:02 Interviewer- Is there anything you would like to pass down to a younger generation of Sisters? 86:07 Sister Joan- No, I think the essence of our community is what I would want passed down. The essence of our community as I have said a little while ago, it's love God and neighbor without distinction, it's the encouragement to find Jesus. And some people love blessed Mother best and some people like Jesus. For me it's all about Jesus. Jesus is the one I want to get in touch with and yes I would want the young woman to learn our charism. Our charism is the whole thing about love each other and love of God and neighbor. Oh, I should have brought a book, I could have read it to you. And I'm giving the idea the desire that we stay together, and then we work together, we love each other, and we take care of each other, but all of that is because we want to be more pleasing to Jesus and Mary and God and Joseph and everybody. You know Joseph and Mary are not as important to me as Jesus and that's just kind of how it hit me. But yes I would want any young woman and I know they will be invited into our charism and into our documents that kind of explain how we see ourselves, it's marvelous, it's inspire as far as I'm concerned. And I'm also glad I got to be part of it. 88:06 Interviewer- I like that. So what did your habit look like? Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 21

22 88:15 Sister Joan- The habit. Oh my goodness, yes, well, I used say it was as good as a pair of jeans any day if I could have had the jeans underneath that would have been fine. Our habit was quite distinctive: a long black dress and kind of big sleeves. It had a piece that went around your waist and it came up like this and across. But then covering all that was a great big piece of white plastic and it wasn't my favorite thing in the world. About this big and it went around the back and it tied up here and so when you looked at me as a Sister you saw this big, big white thing and then I'd smile and it was sort of... And then we wore a band of that plastic around the head and then the veil went over that. A little veil to keep it all together. And a piece of cloth that went around here and a bigger veil that went on top of all of that so what we were dressed up pretty fancy. [Laughs] I was very happy to let go of the habit not that I minded wearing it, it was a privilege to wear it, but you know I made everybody know there's a Sister; be quiet there's a Sister, don't tell that joke here. You know that kind of thing. Well now not having a habit on you just get treated more normal. You know you're always treated so special because you see this big black habit on and it was okay. I didn't know any better, that's just how we did it but now that I don't wear the habit anymore. I also like that because you're just more part of the common women who love the church and do what they can do. Like we're doing now, you're doing something that will help if people need to know about us. No, the habit was okay but I'm not sorry that I don't wear anymore. Is that an okay answer? 90:47 Interviewer- Yeah. Were there any other influences that made you not want to wear it? 90:54 Sister Joan- I don't think so. I think people s reaction was the main thing that I noticed. And it was a lot to put on and a lot to take off and you kind of had to pin it up and get it out of the way so you didn't trip on it and all that, so it was more work. Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 22

23 91:15 Interviewer- Okay well is there anything else you'd like to share? 91:18 Sister Joan- I think we did wonderful. 91:21 Interviewer- Well it was nice talking to you too then. 91:22 Sister Joan- And it was so good of you to fix all those questions. It just kept me talking. (Laughs) God bless you both. 91:30 Interviewer- You too. Sister Joan Groschen (CSJ)/ Bridget Barrett St. Paul, MN 11/5/15 23