BOYD STEWART AUSTRALIAN HISTORY TIJTORIAL ESSAY TUTOR: M. HENRY WED: 7-9PM JOHN SOBB'S LIFE IN RETAIL.

Transcription

1 BOYD STEWART AUSTRALIAN HISTORY TIJTORIAL ESSAY TUTOR: M. HENRY WED: 7-9PM JOHN SOBB'S LIFE IN RETAIL.

2 Page 1. During his forty-six years in retail Jhn Sobb has had to verome many hallenges. He has witnessed many hanges in the retail industry. Sobb's Fur:aiture was one of the last remaining family retail houses until they deided to lse on the 3Bth June, John Sobb was born in Marrikville on the 18th Otober, His father started the business originally in June of 1937, at 357 Hunter Street. John joined his father in 1938 along with his unle Leo who rune up from Sydney to help his brother in the business. During the post depression and pre seond world war period, retail was a very personalised business. Sobb's Furniture displayed this personal touh by holding a family pini at Speers Point Park in They also held a talent quest through radio station 2HD. The seond world war started a short time after this and life was very tough. John was at war for a period of three years ( ). Leo also went to war from John's father was left to struggle on in the business for this perid. Dur:ing the seond world war there were no stoks available as the prodution of furniture was prohibited beause they needed the materials for the munition fatories. When John and his unle returned from the war they rejoined John's father in the business. The prblem of lak of stok lasted for a further ten years. It was a gradual thing that took a long time to retify itself. The seond world war was a big struggle for John Sobb and Sobb's Furniture. There have been many hanges in t he retail industry sine John Sobb started. In the late thirties "thol:lsands of people would ome down from Cessnok and Maitland, partiularly Cessnok, Kurri Kurri and Neath." This is something that does not our today, beause of the growth. of Cessnok and Maitland retail wise. This was just one evident hange in retail that John witnessed. Retail was very stagnant up until the sixties. The advent of disount houses was a major hange in the 196's. i "The first major one to hit Newastle would have been Sydney Wide". 2 This brought a very different way of retailing to Newastle. uthe bigger retail ompanies were buying a whole lot better than the smaller retailers" 3 "This was unfair ompetition, 11 it was very hard to exist. 4 ~ To try and ompete with this unfair ompetition the Sobb's had to be very astute in their business.

3 Page 2 This hange is another example that onfronted John Sobb in his life in retail. To overome this problem Sobb's Furniture had to join a buying group whih was alled "Furniture Trade Buyers Co-Op". s This meant that they ould buy better and ompete with the disount houses. The group onsisted of.ne hundred privately owned stres. This type of buying still goes on today with groups suh as Sportsene and Mensland in operation to help the small man ompete with the big boys. The emergene of shopping entres oiniding with the more frequent use of motor vehi les has hanged retail. The publi had means :>f transport to these shopping entres, and this dragged people away from the ity entre and made it hard for peeple like John Sobb to survive. Due to this John's belief is that "if David Jones happened to lose in the ity~ the rest of the ity would be in big trouble". 6 " as they are the draward. Sobbs Furniture losed its doors on the 3th June, Many were sorry to see them go beause they gave good personalised servie. "People realise that it won't be long before personal servie is a thing of the past". r During John Sobb's forty-six year assoiation with retail in Newastle he endured many hanges. He overame these hanges to run a very suessful business in a very trying field.

4 FOOTNOTES 1. Transript of Interview. P 1 2. Ibid p4 3. Ibid 4. Ibid 5. Ibid 6. I bid 7. The Newastle Herald Wednesday, April 25, 1984, p 1.

5 BIBLIOGRAPHY The Newastle Herald Wednesday, April 25, 1984.

6 SUMMARY. John Sobb was born in Marrikville, Sydney on the He spent most of his hildhood in Marrikville. His father deided to move to Newastle to start a furniture retail business in June of The shop then was situated at 357 Hunter Street. John Sobb's Unle Leo ame up from Sydney with his brother t o help him. In 1938 Sobb's Furniture held two advertising, soial events whih were extrem.ely popular. The first one was a publi pini at Speers Point Park and the seond was a talent quest whih was run in onjuntion with 2HD Radio. The war was a tragedy that the Sobb family had to overome. Leo went to war from 194 until 1946 and John went from 1942 until The war made it very tough for John's father to survive in business as they had extreme trouble getting stok. When Leo and John returned from war they had to help Mr. Sobb Snr. rebuild the business. They really ame bak from war to fae another adversity. It took about ten years before stok levels returned to an aeptable level. During his forty six years in retail John witnessed many hanges. In the early days when train loads of people would flok down from the Coalfields to shop in Newastle whih doesn ' t happen now. The advent of the disount houses in the 1 96 's T h es& h~uses made it very hard to ompete and the only way you ould was to be very astute in your business. Also the large shopping entres made it hard for the little shops to survive. Sobb's Furniture losed its doors on the 3th June, They were very appreiative of the people of Newastle and had a very happy assoiation with retail.

7 PAGE 1 TRANSCRIPT Were you born in New Lanbton? No I was born in Marrikville, Sydney on the I was shooled in Marrikville up to the age or up to the year When dad deided to ome to Newastle I ompleted a further six months shooling at Marist brothers. Did you spend most of your hildhood in Sydney? Most of my hildhood. Only the last six months of my shooldays were spent in Newastle. When you moved to Newastle was that when your fatther deided to open the business? My father deided to ome to Newastle and open the business whih was at 357 Hunter Street and that was in June His brother ame up and worked for him then. He started with him as an employee, his brother Leo and I finished shool in February Dad wanted me to arry on and go to ollege but I didn't wa n t to do that. I don't know what set me on the thought of retailing but all I wanted to do was get into the shop. In February 1938 he more or less said ok if you deide you are not going to oll ege, well you an ome in and give it a go and see how you go. So really thats what happened. So I started in Then his brother went into the army in early 194, it would have been 4 or maybe l ate 4 perhaps. I went into the army in May The first twelve or eighteen months after the war had started stoks were reasonably plentiful. But wi~in a further twelve months it was pratially impossible to get any stoks. Alot of people were alled up for different kinds of duties, into munition fatories and so forth and alot of other people we nt into servies. I was away form the period of may 1942 until Otober After I left the shop, stokwise things were very bad. dad moved aross the road into a very small shop with one other fellow on the staff and just battled on with what ever stok they ould get until the war finished. I ame bak i n Otober 1945, my unle Leo ame bak in January There was a property two doors away from where dad was operating from. It was a muh larger shop whih was 4 Hunter Street. That beame available for sale and dad purhased that property after onsulting Jak and myself as to whether we felt that we would give it a go and see how we went for stok beause we didn't have and idea what the situationwas going to be like. After the war was over, did it make it very tough? Very very hard for any retailer. It wasn't hard to sell anything it was hard to get the stok to sell. We deided yes okay, we would give it a go. we Didn't have any idea how we would go and we started there immediately after the war. It was just Jak, Leo I'm sorry he was alled jak whih is onfusing beause it ma k e two Jaks. So Leo myself and my dad. we kiked off with the i dea of just

8 PAGE 2 A seeing how we would operate wise and that would have depeded on how long we would of stayed there, really that virtue!ly what ~t amounted to. What was Hunter Street, What did it look like then ompared to now? Hunter Street in those days one partiular thing I an remember was, one week was onsidered steel works pay and the following week was the miner's pay and always on the miners pay day you ould rest asure that there would be train loads of people that would ome down from Cessnok and Maitland partiulary Cessnok, Kurri and Neath, all those plaes. On every seond Saturday morning hundreds or thousands of people would ome down from the oalfiels to shop in Newastle, that was very very noti!able! that is something of ourse that you don't see today at all. that ~as a very notiable thing that every seond Saturday morning, I an remember one train used to get in at the Civi Station about twenty past eight and you would see people getting of the train and straight into the shops every Saturday over the years that just died out with the growth of Maitland shopping and so forth and I guess Cessnok beame larger shopping wise. When you originally went, started off when you left shool did you envisage to be in business? :J As far as selling was onerned I loved it.i had no idea what the future held for me I was too young I guess to have even thought about that. Then the war started whih made the whole situation ompletely different to what it is today. I think in those days people, they just were 1 nto sure where they were going. I mean the war ame and if you went into the army either voluntary of if you were alled up irrespetive you were in there. It was very hard to even onsider what the future held. What about when you ame bak from the war? When I ame bak from the war I still had only one thing in mind and that was retail. Hoping that we would get suffiient stoks to arry on one of us would make a trip to Sydney every week. Every week we would be down alling on, sometimes staying two and three days alling on manufaturer's pleading with manufaturer~s. You know we might of had thirty manufaturer s that we would all on in a period of two days. Most manufaturer~s in those days didn't even want o"t see you beause they didn't need any people alling on them to sell their merhandise. They ould ring up one store like the major stores and they ould take their omplete output. It was very very hard to go to Sydney and you would ome bak and you might have been luky enough to get two bedroom suites, one lounge suite and one dining room suite. Stok was so diffiult so it made your business week to week depending on how luky you were to how muh stok that you got.

9 PAGE 3 When did it star to retify itself? It took about, I don't know whether the tape was on when I mentioned to you regarding lounge furniture how they were barred during the war years, they were not allowed to be made. Why was that? Again shortage of materials and most of the people had been aught up in munition works. Most of t he fatories were onverted into materials that were used for the war. This is why so many things were not allowed to be manufatured during that time. I suppose the first, from 1946 that was when we moved into 4 Hunter Street, early 46. The first three or four years would have been very very diffiult stok wise and then it just seemed to ease from year to year. I just ouldn't put a year on it when everything just beame plentiful!. Possibly round, round about by the late SO's things started to get bak to normal as far as stoks were onerned. We employed a happy after having been there for about six months we were getting suffient stok to make things via~e. We put a fellow on for a week, we wanted a bit o f polishing done. He was a bit of a jak of all trades fellow and we put him on for a week and he stayed with us for about thirty years. That was a shop now where th G.I.O building stands. Do you know the G.I.O. building? Yes. Thats where we were there and we stayed there. Dad I should say purhased the pro~erty down at 615 Hunter Street whih would have been around the alte SO's when he purhased the property that Hustlers were renting that, in those days you ouldn't get tenany out. But eventually Hustlers moved out, we had to wait eight years I think it was. We got notifiation that they were moving out. Then we modernised the shop and sold the existing property where we were. Dad needed that money for the purhase, not for the purhase of the other one. well her more or less, he probably borrowed money to bu~ the other one and then to the mortage or whatever. It had renovations, it had a omplete ~new shop front on it. Then we traded right up until Saturday morning. We ~sed the old shop at 4 Hunter Streetand we opened the new one on the f oll owing Monday morning. We traded right up until the Saturday; we didn't have muh to move. We ordered new stok for that new shop,we ended up with reasonable stok that had to be moved down from 4 down to Hunter Street was down where, between the water board and the Gas Company, we probably went there in When you were saying aboutthe miners and everyone oming down from Maitland and so forth. When did that type of thing start to slow down? Atually that really I think happened going bak from memory, that was more pre war. When we first started and the early years of the war. Immediately after the war, I'm not too sure about that. That was more or less ,39.4 up until the time that I went away. So we ame bak and we traded there. We ended with a staff of about eighteen in all at the west end when we more or less finished.

10 PAGE 4 What other hanges did you witness in your thirty odd years of trading in the ity entre itself? Well retailing was muh the same just up until the time that, there wasn't a g r eat deal of hange in retailing. Exept until the advent of what we now all disount houses. They were never atually heard of. The first major one to hit Newastle would have been Sydney Wide. They are no longer in existene but they were the first ones tp ome to Newastle. They opened atually diretly opposite where we were at 615 Hunter Street. There was a loal. Pesh~ar. John Peshtar, he may have even been before Sydney Wide. He wasn't in a big way like Sydney Wide were. They were of ourse followed by Norman Ross and that bought really a very different way of retailing, the way that they retailed. Then you got the stage where by as stoks beame very plentif ull and manufaturers were having problems disposing their stoks. It was like having the boot on the other foot. Like twenty years say ten years prior to that when stok was very hard to get they didn't want to see the retailers ans was say a omplete reverse say in the following ten years. Then the bigger retail ompanies were buying a whole lot better than the smaller retailers. More or less the smaller retailers were subsidising the big boys. Whih really you know is not fair ompetition. Very muh the same as the major food stores today with the little orner shops. Most of the little orner shops have gone out of business. If you were not astute in your business with retailing, partiularly in the furniture game, the eletrial game as well it was very hard to exist really. When you say astute. Do you mean give very good servie? Well servie, there is no substitute for servie, there is no sub stitute for quality and I think the main things one had to know. Number one, you had to buy right. If you ouldn't buy right you an't sell right, so you are not being ompetitive, I mean if you are going to buy on a bad market you an't sell your produt to give you suffiient margin to keep your business operating. So it was amatter of say furniture lines would have been easier then white goods. When I say white goods I mean white goods not blak goods beause it got to a matter of ifone of the big major ompanies were buying Kelvinators at a prie and the smaller man found it hard to ompete. With furniture you had more of an opportunity of getting exlusive lines and things like that. Different materials and dif fernt designs and things like that whih made it a little bit easier to get a reasonable margin. But it was very very diffiult to ompete with the big operators unless you worked that way. You had to be very astute with your buying. Did that ome in during the 196's? Yes that star ted in the sixties. The disount house retailing started in the sixties. We were then, what happened with general retailing would have happened in all fields. We were ontated by a person from Sydney who was having the same problems as all retailers. He was a privately owned furniture store. He wasn't~but he was buying for a small group that had been formed alled Furniture Co Op Trading or Furniture Trade Buyers Co Op. They had arrived at the idea the

11 PAGE 5 only way the small ould ompete suessfully against the bigger operator was to form a o op of privately owned stores or seleted privately owned stores. We were given the opportunity of beoming a member of this o op. Whih we did and that helped us and that helped us to know to a great extent beause we employed a buyer in Sydney. As years went on the show got better. We would be having buying meeting in Sydney three to four times a year. Our group ended up with over 1 stores, privately owned stores whih gave us a very very big buying power. Did you stay in that group until you losed? Yes we stayed in that group until we finished. The group is still operating, it is now alled Furniture One, they have hanged the name but it is still operating. Those Stores ame from plaes like Griffith, Aranda, Canberra, Nowra, Bega,Tamworth, Bourke everywhere all over the state, That was the one way it gave the smaller man opportunity of ompeting against the big shows beause we would get alot of lines made exlusively. Alot of the big manufaturers didn't want to supply Sydney Wide or Norman Ross. The larger aounts the very very big show they threatened that they would stop buying from them if th~supplied these disount houses. What happened there was the trade praties bill was bought in and Sydney Wide took a ouple of the maufaturers on and won the ase. Whih meant it was restriting of trade so they had to supply them, they~re fored to supply them. Then they used the exuse that they really did not want to b~ 1-they were f righ tene d of losing the big aounts. That was the exuse, that we have no hoie we have got t~ I mean restrit of trade. The bill has been passed and we have got to supply. These hanges that have happened and the way retail is today. Do you think they are for the better or would you like to see it the way it used to be in the old days? Well I think really sine the self servie type of operations ame in. I've got to start that again. Apart from the retailing hange the buyers have hanged. The attitude of the buyer has hanged ompletely. Going bak twenty years ago if somebody ame into say a furniture store and they wanted to look at a dining room suite.they would be approahed usually in a heerfull manner by a salesman "Can I help you madam? Would you like some help?" They say "Yes I would like to have a look at a dining room suite please". They were seeking the advie of the person that was there who should of known the produt if he was worth his wages he should have known all about it. He should have been able to give the lient alot of advie. That really was the way I was brought up in selling. With the disount house type of operation the hange ame that if people wanted to buy something they would walk into one shop and start with the white goods where they wanted to buv a Kelvinator, they would go into one of the disount houses and get the prie there and then go around to the others and hek it out. So when they were approahed in other shops they would say, 'No thanks just l ooking'. They were not seeking any help and that beame more prevalent as years went on.

12 PAGE 6 It's stronger that way now I feel than ever it has been. People think they know all about the produt. I think also alot of people in the retail stores don't know the produts they are selling. Perhaps thats one of the reasons looking at it now. But the younger people as they have grown up in the last twenty years, they have got the idea that we know what we want, we don't want to get any information from him. I think they miss out on alot of things Not so muh perhaps with a refrigerator but alot in the furniture game where there is alot of things that people don't know about that an be explained to them if they are prepared to listen. I don't know whether w~ have been indotrinated with the self servie thing I most ertainly don't like the self servie. You would like to see it the way it used to be? Well I think it was muh more pleasant, I think for everybody. The attitudes of the buyer you know have hanged so muh. Whether they think the salesman is going to tie them up or something I don't know and be a real high pressure type of salesman that ould be I don't know. But we an only speak of our own wav we never ever believed in that type of operation at all. We always wanted to be able to talk to people to expla~n to people but ertainly not to high pressure at all. With the ity entre the way ir is now, with people saying in ten years time its going to turn into offies with no shops. What do you think about that? I don't think that will happen. They said the same thing in Sydney when the shopping omplexs first started in Sydney. They said there would be nothing in the ity, no retailing left in the ity. We have more or less followed the pattern of Sydney over the years. Whether I'm right or wrong I don't know but going along the pattern of Sydney I'd sav there will always be retailing in the ity. The urrent ounil are trying to do everything about mono-rails and so forth, you know reating interest bak in the ity and something has got to be done. Do you think the things they are oming up with are or will be an advantage to retail? I ouldn't answer that~! wouldn't know that Boyd. My own belief would be if D.J's happened to lose in the ity the ity would be in big trouble beause I think they are the draward. I know D.J's in the ity and the Newastle entral business entre would be in hea~ of trouble. Thats just my own viewpoint on it.

13 PAGE 7 I was doing a bit of bakground reading, there is a paper advertisement when you losed down and it said about you having publi pinis and things. When did they our? That oured it would have been 1938 something like that. It was apubli pini that we put on at Speers Point Park. It was advertised extensively and there were photos in the Newastle Herald whih are somewhere. I'll have to try and line them up if I an. We had buses, double deker buses, taxis I just an't remember how many taxis there were and buses to transport peopl~ Other people would have gone by bus, in those days. I ' m not quite sure how they w-uld of got to Speers Point. There were raes orgainised, sprint raes for different age groups, ash pries were given for it. It was a very big day. Just a soial event? It was just an advertisng event, it was very popular. It was advertised through 2Hd. We had a talent quest also with 2Hd, that was a separate show. It went on for some months. Did you only have one pini? Yes only the one, the war ame after that. Everything hanged from there on. ' But the advent of the motor ar has hanged retailing so muh. Going bak twenty five years very few families would have had two motor ars. Thats why the shopping entres are there beause of the motor ar. Is this beause they had aess to the entres? They wouldn't be there if it wasn't for the motor ar. I suppose in this day and age it would be very diffiult for me to name six people and that are in good health that don't own a motor ar. In 1965, sixty, sixty five it wo uldn't have been any trouble to name sixty. I w-uld have to stop and think if I was to name six people that are fit and in good health that don't own a ar. Can you name any? No. So it really did ange things. When did you lose your operation in Hunter Street? Well we deided we would lose. We losed on the 3th June, We started the losing down sale, it would have been the day after Anza Day 84, thats right. We had big stoks, very big stoks in the end. We were leasing a store in Steel Street we had leased until Otober. So we were omitted to pay rent until Otober. We thought that if we didn't lear all of our stok by the time April 26 to 3th June. Thats when we deided we were

14 PAGE 8 going to lose down Hunter Street. We would have moved the stok to Steel Street and had four months that we ould have traded from around there to dispose the balane of the stok. As it turned out we didn't need that. Good luk, good management all it what you like. We would have had something_ in the fainity, something around three hundred thousand dollars in stok when we started the sale. When we finished we had one thousand dollars of stok, so we didn't have to work after, as far selling the stok we didn't. All together it was a very happy assoiation, my assoiation with retailing. I thoroughly enjoyed it, I love retailing, I love selling. If the hours had of remained reasonable I would have still been there. It said in the paper artile that a lot of people were sorry to see people like yourself and Makies go. Thats the personal touh that has gone out of it. So many people, Makies privately owned stores in Newastle, family owned stores were Makies, ourselves, that would have been it I guess. Miky Light many years ago, although G.B. 's bought him out many years prior to that. But I think when big publi ompanies ome and take over the shows it's not the same. Makies had a big personal following the same as we did, we arried a similar type of merhandise. We weren't in the very heap end and not right at the top end but from the middle to the top braket. Makies had a very similar type of stok. A tuall_h. they were in the same buying group as we were. We were the twos tores but we were seleted initially to go into the buying group. Leo my unle and myself who had been working together sine 1938 exept for the period we were in the fores. We had disussed the situation in respet to the extra hours, Thursday night shopping ame in and then to go with the disount houses in later years. Some of them were illegaly opening all day Saturday and Sunday and publi holidays. So we ould see eventually this was going to be the norm. That it was going to be seven days a week shopping. We ouldn't see muh future in that as we were getting older. We felt that we didn't want to just live for work we wanted to work to live. We have worked hard and have had a very suessful business and very appreiative of the support we have had in Newastle over the years. We think that we.~ gave good servie. We have had a lot, a lot of satisfied lients. I guess they weren't all satisfied, we must of had some but they were very muh a very very small perentage. We did our utmost to keep everybody happy. If we had any omplaints we always made sure they were fixed up. As I said earlier had the hours been reasonable perhaps we may have stayed a bit longer. We had a good innings, we felt the time had ome to spend a bit more time with our families and enjoy the rest of our life that we have.

15 UNI VJmSJTY OF NEWCASTLE OPEN FOUNDATION COURSE j 98C\ 1 1~-~----~ - give niy permission to... fijyo... (l.(!_~'f?t[ I tu use this interview, or part uf Lhis interview, for researh,pubrit:aliun and/~ling {delele one of Lhese if require<.!) and [or opies. lo be lodged in the... \2.:J. ~.Y~3>..!~L.~f.. :... f.f~.l.j. I.. ~ ;;? \ for the use of olher bona fide researhers. Signed i ::!:.... ~..... Dale Interviewer... t f.....

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