TV Program. The Betrayer (Judas)

Transcription

1 TV Program CURRENT EPISODE The Betrayer (Judas) PRODUCTION #: 1134 SPEAKER: Shawn Boonstra GUEST: Richard Stenbakken Let me ask you a question. I ll bet you ve wondered about the past. And if you could step into some sort of time machine and go back to the ancient past, where would you go? Which of the people in the pages of the Bible would you most like to meet? In spite of what some people in the backwoods of conspiracy theory might tell you, the theory of time travel is really just that. A theory. We can t really do it, as much as we d like to. But today for just a moment we are going to assume that we can, because my guest is retired army colonel and chaplain Richard Stenbakken, who also happens to be a dedicated preacher and has an unusual gift for portraying characters from the pages of the Bible. And today, he is going to help us meet one of the most notorious of Bible characters the man that nobody names their children after, out of all the disciples. You know there is just one who fits that category: The disciple Judas. And today, through the tool of careful Bible study, we ll get the opportunity to talk to Judas right here on It Is Written. Judas, I m so glad that you ve made time to come on the It Is Written program. It s a delight to have you with us. JUDAS: You should be honored that I m here. SHAWN BOONSTRA: Judas, a lot of people I know would like to talk to you. You may not realize it, but in all the time that has passed, you ve built quite a name for yourself. Everybody knows about you. The stories have gone on for centuries. And let me share one with you, because I know that a lot of people have questions. I have questions. Listen to this from the Bible. It says (John 12:1-2): Then six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was who had been dead, whom He raised from the dead. There they made Him a supper; and Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those who sat at the table with Him. You probably remember this part. JUDAS: Of course, of course. SB: Mary took a pound of very costly oil of spikenard. Do you recall this? JUDAS: Yes. SB: She anointed the feet of Jesus, wiped His feet with her hair, and the house was filled with the fragrance of the oil. And then one of His disciples here you are Judas Iscariot, Simon s son, who would betray Him, said, Why was this fragrant oil not sold for 300 denarii and given to the poor? This he said not that he cared for the poor, but because he was a thief. JUDAS: Whoa, whoa, whoa, a thief! SB: Well, that is what it says. JUDAS: Who wrote that stuff about calling me a thief? SB: Well, this is in John s Gospel. JUDAS: John? John who? John the, what, the beloved? SB: Yes. John the beloved, that s right.

2 JUDAS: Yeah, well, beloved calling me a thief. That is some beloved thing to do, calling somebody a thief. SB: Judas, you know, today I m JUDAS: You are honored. SB: Well, that is maybe not the word I was JUDAS: Yeah, that is the correct word. SB: Honored? JUDAS: Well, you should be. You see, they should have been honored to have me as part of the group. That bunch of Galileans, they knew nothing. They needed me, don t you understand? They needed me. SB: I really don t understand. You are saying they needed you. And if you say that, then what you are really saying is that Jesus needed you? JUDAS: Yes, that is exactly true. Don t you understand? You ve read this Book, right? SB: Yeah. JUDAS: Where did all the other disciples come from geographically? SB: Well, they are from Galilee. Galileans. JUDAS: Galileans. Okay. You know what Galileans are noted for? They have such soft hearts and they have softer heads. They just don t get it. You see, what did Jesus did He call all of them? SB: He called all of them. JUDAS: Yes, yes. He had to go after them. I came to Him. SB: Right, you volunteered. JUDAS: Well, of course. SB: As a disciple JUDAS: I saw what they couldn t see, because Galileans are stupid. SB: Just a minute. Just a minute, you seem to be saying that you saw something that nobody else could see. You saw something in Jesus. Is that what you are saying? You saw something that no one else, none of these Galileans, saw. Judas, what is it that brought you to Jesus? How did you end up there? JUDAS: Well, look at my name. Take my name. Judas what? SB: Judas Iscariot. JUDAS: Iscariot! I m not some carrot Ish Cariot. The land of Cariot. SB: Ish Cariot. JUDAS: Do you know where Cariot is? SB: Well, I haven t checked the map in a while JUDAS: Well, you must be Galilean, too. It is way down in southern Judea, you see? Judeans are known for their ability. I saw in Jesus that He had authority. He had power. He had charisma. He had potential. He could be the deliverer, Shawn, the deliverer from the rotten Romans. He had the ability to do it. SB: And how was that going to happen, in your opinion? Jesus task is to root out the Romans, right, in your JUDAS: Absolutely, and sit on the throne of David. SB: Well, then, how is Jesus going to do that? JUDAS: That was the question. How could He do it with these Galileans? SB: Uh-huh. JUDAS: Tell me, who are some of these Galileans? You seem to know who they are.

3 SB: Well, there is Peter. Peter has actually been on the program with us. JUDAS: Peter. Okay. Yes, Peter. Oh yeah, Peter. Are you going to build anything on Peter? This impetuous individual, who thinks after he s done something, if he thinks at all, you know. Oh, let me walk on the water And he lives up to his name. What s his name mean? SB: Uh, Peter? Stone. JUDAS: Yeah, and that is how he walked on the water. Down. You are going to build a kingdom with people who think like that? No way. SB: There are a lot of disciples. Andrew. JUDAS: Oh, sure, Andrew. What did he ever write? SB: Well, um JUDAS: What is recorded about him? SB: We don t have anything left. JUDAS: Yeah, you don t have anything, because he didn t do anything. He was so quiet. I mean, he s hanging around in the crowd. He is hanging around with little kids. Little kids! I mean, little kids don t have value if you are going to build a kingdom. They are just kids! SB: Ah, Judas. I don t know. I mean, I have children, and you know full well, Jesus saw it differently than that. JUDAS: Well, you tolerate children but you go for power. Don t you understand? That is why they needed me. Some of the other disciples, who were they? SB: Matthew. There is a kinship there, isn t there? JUDAS: Oh yeah, Matthew. Well, sure, look. Uh-huh. Who carried the moneybag? Me. SB: Right, right. JUDAS: What did Matthew do before he became a disciple? SB: Matthew? Tax collector. JUDAS: Tax collector. Do you know how tax collectors got to be tax collectors? SB: Well, I m afraid you are going to have to enlighten me a little bit on that. JUDAS: Yeah, well, I ll tell you how they got it. They sold out to the Romans. The Romans said to raise so much tax and they bid on that. And then when they would charge you tax, if you owed, whatever, 10 shekels of tax a year, they would charge you 20 shekels and they would keep the difference. Don t you see? Matthew was a turncoat. He is the traitor. SB: So they must have been really popular with the people, the tax collectors JUDAS: They were very unpopular and they were very untrustworthy. That is why they gave me the money. You couldn t trust Matthew. Besides, he was too distracted. Who else? SB: Uh, Thomas. JUDAS: Oh, there is a winner. Well, I don t know. Maybe. Perhaps. I m not sure. Can you see him being a statesman? I mean, Jesus needed power people. People like me. SB: People who are big. JUDAS: Absolutely. SB: James and John. JUDAS: James and John. Sons of SB: Thunder. JUDAS: Thunder. Well, some thunder they were. Nothing. SB: So you are saying they needed you.

4 JUDAS: Absolutely, they needed me. SB: And what did you have to contribute to Jesus and the disciples? JUDAS: You know what my name means? SB: Judas? JUDAS: Judah. SB: Judah. JUDAS: Judah, Judas, means the gift of God. Yes, I am God s gift to that group. They needed me. They needed somebody with a plan. I always have a plan. SB: A plan. Now, listen, you are talking about a plan. You are talking about your importance. I have spent a lot of time studying Jesus, and I ve looked at what He did. I ve looked at what He said, Judas, and as I look at it, He didn t come to follow others, He came to be in charge. I mean He is not looking for leaders he is looking for followers when He comes to the human race. So you don t get it, either. JUDAS: His priorities were scrambled. Think of the situation He had. There was this account of this rich young ruler, remember that? SB: Oh, I love this story! This is one of my all-time favorites. What could you possibly object to in what Jesus did with the rich young ruler? This is a great story. JUDAS: Okay, lets unpack it. SB: Okay. JUDAS: Okay. What are the three words? SB: Rich. Young. Ruler. JUDAS: Okay. Now rich and young, what does that mean? That means he didn t earn that money, he inherited it. SB: Well, I ve never thought of it like that, I guess that is probably true. JUDAS: Well, that is your Galilean part SB: (laughs) JUDAS: So he is rich and he is young. He needs somebody to help him manage his money. Right? SB: Okay. JUDAS: That would be me. I know how to make things happen. He is rich, he is young and what else? SB: He is a ruler. JUDAS: He is a he is a synagogue ruler. He is an important person. Right? SB: Yeah, okay. JUDAS: And he comes to Jesus, and what does he ask? SB: All right. He asks, What must I do to inherit eternal life? JUDAS: You see? Inherit. He wants to inherit, again, eternal life. And so what does Jesus tell him to do? SB: Go and sell what you have. JUDAS: Okay, that is fine up to that point, and then do what with it? SB: Well, give the proceeds to the poor. JUDAS: To the poor, oh, to the poor, please. That is why they are poor! They don t know how to handle money. Give it to me. I ll handle the money. SB: And what good is that going to do, Judas? What are you going to do for everybody with the money in your hand? I guess I m having trouble comprehending your plan. I look at what happened, I look at where your plan led.

5 You know, as a matter of fact, as you and I get to know each other a little bit, and as I read about your role among the disciples, I ve got to say, out of everybody there, you seem to have a pretty high opinion of yourself. JUDAS: As well I should. I mean, somebody had to be in charge. Like I told you, these other people, they are losers. They can t be in charge. Take the other ruler. Remember his name? Jairus. SB: Jairus, right. JUDAS: Okay, what is the problem there? SB: He has a sick daughter. Oh, this is another story I love. I have two little girls and when I read this story, I mean, it grabs my heart. He has a little girl who is sick. I d do anything for my sick girls. JUDAS: Of course, what father wouldn t do anything for their sick child? So Jairus, the ruler in Capernaum, okay, Capernaum is a big city and a big important place, Jairus is in charge of the Capernaum synagogue. He is somebody and he came to Jesus and he said, Please come and heal my daughter. Jesus could do it. We all knew that. SB: Right. JUDAS: And so Jesus said, Yes. He d go. And then what happened? SB: Well, um, if I recall the story correctly, there is a crowd. JUDAS: Yeah, a shoulder-to-shoulder crowd. And we are moving through the crowd and Jesus stops and says, Who touched me? I mean in a crowd? Who touched me? Everybody is touching you. SB: Yeah, yeah. JUDAS: And then what happened? SB: Well, um, everybody stops, and it turns out there is a woman there who touched Jesus. JUDAS: Yes, she touched Jesus because she was unclean, impure SB: Unclean. You mean she JUDAS: She d been bleeding for 12 years. SB: So she s not supposed to be in the crowd. JUDAS: Not at all. SB: Okay. JUDAS: And she says, I touched you. And Jesus stopped and she tells the whole story of 12 years of her sickness, while Jairus is standing there waiting. You know, here is an important man and Jesus is spending time with this nobody woman! I mean, don t you understand? SB: I understand the story. What I don t understand is how you look at this story. Isn t Jesus for the nobodies? Isn t Jesus for those people who have nobody else? JUDAS: Of course He is. That is why He needed me. You see, He didn t realize His own strength, His own power. He is spending time let me ask you SB: Ummm JUDAS: There is a wedding. And somebody asked the man, How was the wedding? What is he going to say? They got there, they got married, and that is it. SB: Yeah, it is, uh JUDAS: You ask a woman, what do you get? SB: Oh, a couple of hours (laughs). JUDAS: Yeah, well, see, that is what happened to Jesus. I don t mind paying attention, but you ve got to pay attention to the big people. You ve got to pay attention to the people who count. The people who can make a difference. The people who can put you on the throne.

6 can make a difference. The people who can put you on the throne. SB: Judas, He paid attention to both. JUDAS: Well, you see, that was the problem. He didn t pay enough attention to the important people. He needed me to be in charge, to set it up so that He would become the ruler. SB: You know, as I study Jesus, couldn t you see it? He feeds 5,000 people. He knows what he is doing. If you can take a little gift and feed 5,000 people, that is somebody who knows what they are doing. How can you question that kind of JUDAS: And what did He do when He got through feeding the 5,000? SB: Well, if I recall the story correctly, He went to pray. JUDAS: I think prayer is fine. But you see, as we are feeding the 5,000 people, I m helping. By the way, lets get it straight. You didn t feed 5,000 people. SB: No, I sure didn t. JUDAS: Okay, I did, so don t put me down, all right? I was part of the miracle. And as I gave people this food, you know what I told them? Make Him king. Make Him king. Make Him king! How do you think that got through the whole crowd? SB: Well, they sure seemed to think that later. JUDAS: It wasn t Peter who did it. It wasn t Thomas who did it. I was the one who got that chant started. SB: Judas, you have frustration, you have anger with Jesus. I can hear it in what you are saying. Is this why you betrayed Jesus? JUDAS: I didn t betray Him. SB: Well, listen, that is what the disciples say. I ve read their accounts. You betrayed Jesus. JUDAS: Aw, they misused the word. I didn t betray Him. SB: You sold Him out. JUDAS: I didn t look, I got 30 pieces of silver. SB: Yeah. Thirty of them. You sold Him out, man. JUDAS: No, no, no. SB: You betrayed Jesus. JUDAS: No, it was a finder s fee, okay? SB: Uh-huh. JUDAS: You see, Jesus needed me, and the disciples needed me. The high priest needed me. SB: You went to the authorities. JUDAS: Of course. SB: Judas, what do you mean Of course? You went to the authorities. This is Jesus. JUDAS: They wanted you weren t there, okay? You weren t there! SB: No, I sure wasn t. JUDAS: At Nazareth when they wanted to throw Him over the edge of the cliff, He walked right through the crowd. He released Himself. He would do that again. You see, I just had to set it up so that He would be in a position where He would declare who I knew He was, the powerful person who could throw the Romans out. But He wasn t going to do it. SB: You are saying that you actually went to the authorities for Jesus own good. JUDAS: Of course. Look, it is a sweet deal.

7 Look, I said, I ll tell you where He is and you pay me the silver. And then you see what I said? I said, Hold Him fast. Hold Him fast, because when He released Himself, then I could say, Hey, don t look at me, I told you to hold Him fast. You didn t do it. It is your problem, it is not mine. SB: You are trying to force the kingdom. JUDAS: I m trying to help it happen. I m a patriot. I am a believer. I want Him SB: You are ignoring the fact that Jesus might have a plan and you are running it with your own. JUDAS: Okay. You tell me. Tell me that you ve never said, Jesus, I have a plan. Bless my plan. Have you ever said that? SB: If I m honest, and I have to be honest, yeah. Yeah, I m probably JUDAS: Well, then you are just as much Judas as I am. SB: You know what? I probably have to admit that. Yeah. JUDAS: Then you are no different. Then you are no different than I am. No one else is either. You see, I have a plan and my plan could have worked. SB: How can you miss what is going on, Judas, what you did? Thirty pieces of silver, it is the price of a slave. It sounds to me that like selling Jesus out. I don t know how you can see it any other way. JUDAS: You know what it says on the coin? SB: I don t know what it says on the coin. JUDAS: What it says on the coin is Tyre. That s the shekel of Tyre. It says sanctuary and asylum on it. SB: You are right. JUDAS: And see, the people needed a sanctuary, the people needed an asylum, and the people needed deliverance. So the coin says it. I m going to help usher it in. And when He sits on the throne, who is going to be at the right hand, getting the credit for having Him there? Me. SB: Ah, Judas. You know, now that I see it, I mean, 30 of pieces of silver, it says sanctuary and asylum. Yeah, you know, in spite of you, we got sanctuary and asylum in Jesus Christ. JUDAS: What do you mean, in spite of me? SB: Well, you call it a finder s fee. You call this a finder s fee. But it s not that simple, Judas. You took the crowd to Jesus. You brought them to Jesus. You led that charge to arrest Him. JUDAS: What is your job? SB: I m a minister. I m a preacher. JUDAS: What do you do? SB: I speak the Word. JUDAS: And you bring people SB: I bring people to Jesus. JUDAS: Uh-huh. So that s what I was doing. So why are we different? SB: Oh, Judas JUDAS: I brought people to Jesus. I tried to set it up so He would be king. SB: You brought people to Jesus to crucify Him. You brought people to Jesus to kill Him. JUDAS: You don t understand it. You just don t get it. You never will get it. SB: You left them! You left the Passover and to go get Jesus enemies. JUDAS: What did Jesus tell me? He said, What you do, do what? SB: Quickly.

8 JUDAS: Uh-huh. See, I thought He understood what was going on. He said, Go do it quickly. And when I met Him, when I met Him there, how did He address me? Huh? How did He address me? Did He say enemy? What did He say? What did He call me? SB: Uh, friend. JUDAS: Friend. Okay. SB: Right. JUDAS: So who are you to judge me? SB: You led the crowd to Jesus. How could you do it? And you know full well you were wrong. It didn t play out the way you said it was going to. JUDAS: I know it didn t play out the way I said it was supposed to. All He had to do was follow my plan. Was that so hard? SB: You said, Look, they can hold Him fast. Hold Him fast. It didn t happen that way. Jesus didn t release Himself. JUDAS: I know. I was there! SB: Well, then you know what happened. They took Him away. I know what your theory is; I ve heard what you ve said. He is going to act like He did at the edge of the cliff. He is going to release Himself. He ll set up a kingdom. But you know, that is not the way it played out. JUDAS: I know. I was there. Look, I took the money. I took it back and said, Here, take it. Take it. I betrayed innocent blood. I tried to make it right, don t you understand? SB: Judas, I don t think you do understand. I don t think you see it at all. You are still looking at your plan, and they had a plan. The leaders had a plan. Judas, they were going to crucify Him. JUDAS: I know that! I ve got to get out of here. I ve got to get some air. Nobody believes me. SB: There goes one of the saddest stories you are going to find anywhere in the Bible. A man who was so sure he had it right, and now his name has become synonymous with betrayal, with two-facedness and frankly, evil. And as you study the story of the Bible really carefully, it seems that his number one problem was that he was too interested in leading the pack to ever do any real listening. And really, if we are honest, that is a uniquely human problem. We seem to be really good at charting our course through life by using the lens of self. Some people might tell you that it is natural, that millions of years of natural selection has made us self-interested so that we can fight the brutal battle for survival. But you know, the Bible tells a completely different story. It tells us that at one point in that not-so-distant past, we deliberately moved our focus off of God and onto self. We actually made a choice: to give up a worldview that gave us perfect satisfaction and happiness, to adopt one that is made us miserable ever since. Now instead of finding God s plan for our lives today, taking advantage of the perspective that sees us like we really are, we lay our own plans down and we ask God to bless them. And really, that is the root of Judas problem. He set his own course. He made his own plans and then he expected God to bless them. And before we are too hard on Judas, we have to take an honest look at ourselves. If we are really honest, we have to admit that we often do the same thing. Often when we pray we say, God, here is my plan, please bless it. And that is kind of taking the same tack in life that Judas took. So maybe you and I need to learn to pray a little differently. Maybe we should learn to pray like this: Lord, here is my life. I can t see things clearly, and I always make a mess out of my life. So, Lord, you make the plans. Give me the wisdom and grace to follow you. Listen, I guarantee you, if you begin to pray like that you are going to find that it really is a much better way to get through life. Maybe you ve tried figuring out your own way through life, you ve charted your own course, you ve made your own plans and it didn t end all that well. Today, would you like to invite God into your life? Would you like to ask Him to chart your course? Take His hand and walk through the rest of your life with somebody who really knows what you ought to be doing. I d like to invite you to pray with me. PRAYER: Father in heaven, today we have thought about somebody who gave it all away. They charted their own

9 Father in heaven, today we have thought about somebody who gave it all away. They charted their own course, they took matters into their own hands, and they were able, when their eyes were on self, to bring themselves to the point that they could betray Jesus Himself. Lord, we don t want to end up like that. It is our prayer today that you would take our hearts and mold them, that we would listen to your voice and let you chart the course for our lives. Lord, today we want to make a covenant that our lives belong to you. We want to follow Jesus. We want to be His followers. We want to let Him lead, and we ask for His gracious intervention in our lives today. In the name of Jesus Christ, Amen. Thirty pieces of silver is the price of a slave. There comes a point in life where we are going to have to decide what is most important. You are going to have to make that decision. Jesus said you can t serve money and serve God at the same time. So, really, you are going to have to choose. Is it going to be money? Is it going to be God? One of them leads to destruction. You saw the path today that it took Judas on. This one leads to everlasting life. That is my challenge to you this week. Scriptures Used in The Betrayer (Judas) Then six days before the Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was who had been dead, whom He raised from the dead. There they made Him a supper; and Martha served, but Lazarus was one of those who sat at the table with Him. John 12:1-2 Keywords: judas Richard Stenbakken Shawn Boonstra It Is Written Box O Thousand Oaks, CA USA Tel: (805) Fax: (805) Copyright 2010, It Is Written International Television. All rights reserved. Webmaster