Rose asks: I've always wondered if there is a popular area or areas where people feel the most dinosaurs are!

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1 Paleontologists Mary Schweitzer, David Fastovsky, Jerry Harris, Jessie Atterholt and Stephen Brusatte answer questions for a dinosaur paleontologist from North Seattle College s GEOL 106 students about LOGISTICS: Shannon asks: How do you navigate the bureaucracy surrounding the demands of the people/groups/institutions that fund your expeditions while still maintaining your sense of adventure and excitement? Dr. Mary Schweitzer: Well, I don t really HAVE expeditions anymore. My stuff is much more lab based. I love to go out in the field, but for many reasons don t do as much of it as I would like. One of those reasons is that my institution tends to frown on me losing students, which I would do if I led a group by myself. I am notoriously directionally challenged. But, your question does pertain to what I do as well. The kind of paleo I do is very expensive, time consuming, tedious, and controversial. The people who give money like to see high profile publications and a lot of notoriety/attention, things that make me very uncomfortable. Writing grant proposals, writing up the papers with sufficient detail and caution, and dealing with reviewers while trying to teach, develop classes, mentor students and do public outreach, not to mention constantly worrying about money for the projects we do DOES get to me sometimes, and can be quite discouraging and/or exhausting. But, when I give a talk and see that light in a young person s eyes, when I teach and see the light bulb over the head of a student turn on, when I see through the microscope things that not only no one else has seen, but no one ever thought they WOULD see, or when I really let myself think about how amazing dinosaurs were and how they fit in their world, the amazing adaptations they had.it is hard NOT to get excited. It all depends on focus. And that is true of all things in life, I guess. Ultimately it boils down to what you CHOOSE to focus on. So when I am discouraged, I just think about.dinosaur feathers. Or physiology, or why sauropods got so big and I am hooked again. Michelle asks: Once you have found the fossils, what is the excavation site like? How many people are usually there to help? Are there a lot of volunteers helping? Are there different shifts for people to work? How many hours days do you typically work at the site? Dr. David Fastovsky: Once you have found the fossils, what is the excavation site like? It's usually got a few people around; bones semi-exposed; the ones that people are working on are exposed; the others temporarily covered. There will be burlap and plaster around, as well as toilet paper and various glues and hardeners. Tools as well - "Marsh" picks and hammers, as well as dental needles, larger needles, and brushes. The people working on the exposed fossils will often be lying or seated at their little part of the specimen, doing what has to be done. Part of the skill is to expose enough of the fossil to work on it, but not so much that it ends up getting damaged during the jacketing process. How many people are usually there to help? Varies, depending upon the size of the excavation. Are there a lot of volunteers helping? Depends if the paleontologist invited any. Are there different shifts for people to work? Not in my experience; we generally all go out together, work the day, and return in the evening. How many hours/days do you typically work at the site? Do you mean per day? This depends upon how quickly you want to get the fossil out. But most people I know get up early, have a good breakfast, work hard, take a bit of time off for lunch, and then work until just short of sundown. If you're camping, you may need to get in a bit earlier, so that you can prepare food while there is still a bit of sunlight. 1

2 Dr. Jerry Harris: Usually digs for museums have lots of volunteers; digs run by universities have some, but usually are more student-driven. I used to work at the Denver Museum of Natural History (now the Denver Museum of Nature and Science), which had (literally) THE model for a volunteer education and workforce program in its paleontology lab, and the volunteers were absolutely crucial to getting any work done either in the field or the lab. We educated them enough such that we could even send them into the field alone to assess the validity and quality of reports coming in about discoveries by people in the Denver area. Depending on the scope of a dig, there might be anywhere from a couple of volunteers to over a dozen, far more than there are actual scientists or employees! Many volunteers come stay for the duration of a dig; others come just for a few days, depending on their own schedules and availabilities. Most digs go on during the late spring-early autumn seasons, and fieldwork generally goes on as long as there's daylight to work in (with breaks here and there, and for lunch), followed by food, beer, and fun around a campfire (assuming no hotels are involved). :) (Dr.) Jessie Atterholt: What an excavation site is like after we find the fossils varies hugely, depending on the size of the fossil, how many fossils there are, and whether or not they are actually buried. Actually many fossil sites do not require digs as we think of them, but are in fact where specimens occur on the surface of the ground where you can just pick them up with minimal or no digging. Of course, if you have a large mammoth or dinosaur skeleton, then you have a more traditional excavation set-up, usually with 5-20 people helping to dig out the specimens, collect sediment samples and other geological information, look for other fossils in the area, and create plaster cradles as necessary to support the big fossils during transportation. I ve been to other sites, like in China, where many bird fossils are found in between flat layers of rock that formed from fine-grained sediments accumulating at the bottom of a still lake. At this site, a group of about people would all sit together, picking up smallish pieces of flat rocks and splitting them with hammers and chisels to look for bird fossils inside. Overall, you may have as few as two or three to as many as twenty or more people working at a site. Whether or not the people are volunteers depends a lot on how hard the site is to get to, and the politics involved in working there. For instance, I grew up doing volunteer paleontology in Anza-Borrego Desert State Park in southern California. There, almost the entire field team is made up of paleontologists! In contrast, I ve also done fieldwork in China with just my professional colleagues. A lot of the time field work occurs in deserts and badlands, so you can t work too long. In my experience, everyone goes out together in the morning and works until mid to late afternoon, maybe about seven hours or so? Then you all head back to camp or the hotel together. Most of the time there s not really a sense of urgency at a site, so people all work together during the daytime rather than having multiple shifts and working around the clock. Rose asks: I've always wondered if there is a popular area or areas where people feel the most dinosaurs are! What is your favorite continent to travel to look for bones or the best one, in your opinion, to find dinosaurs? Dr. Mary Schweitzer: Montana is good! Besides, it is home. Other places: China, Argentina, Canada, and North Dakota. Seattle? Not so much.. Dr. David Fastosky: I've always wondered if there is a popular area or areas where people feel the most dinosaurs are! Sure, dinosaurs are most likely to be found in sedimentary rocks of the right age (~ Ma), that contain terrestrial sediments. So anyplace that preserves rocks which meet those criteria is a good bet for looking for dinosaur fossils. But, since dinosaurs were distributed globally, I don't know if we can really make the argument that there are more preserved in one place than in another. What is your favorite continent to travel to look for bones or the best one, in your opinion, to find dinosaurs? Wherever they can be found! 2

3 Dr. Jerry Harris: The best places are always the ones that have Mesozoic-aged sedimentary rocks exposed at the surface, and ideally without a lot of ground cover (plants, houses, etc.). Some of the most productive places are in western North America, western Argentina, and northern China and into Mongolia, but dinosaurs are known from every single continent and from a huge (and growing) list of countries. Even places you wouldn't necessarily expect dinosaurs to come from, like southern England, eastern Brazil, or northern Alaska have productive dinosaur fossil localities! I haven't been all that many places--china and Argentina, really, plus a number of places all over the western U.S.--so I couldn't say anything about what's the "best" place...it depends on what you're looking for and what kinds of cultural boundaries you're willing to step over! :) ADVENTURE: Monica asks: Does it ever get to be too much? I picture the whole excavation process being a real lengthy process. To endure hot days usually out in the middle of nowhere which could mean extended periods away from family, does it ever get to be too much? To have an overwhelming feeling or need to get back home. Dr. Mary Schweitzer: Well, I don t do it much anymore, because I am old. Sleeping on the ground is not as easy as it used to be. But, when I DID go out in the field, the longest I stayed was about 2 weeks, and that was only when I was overseas. For me, family comes first. So yeah, being away was hard, and I wasn t willing to give up family time. That is why my research took the lab-based direction it did. But, when I did go out, I got kinda tired of no showers. And the occasional tarantula in my shoes. Or rattlesnake in the outhouse. But, you get used to anything I supposel Tim K asks: Have you ever been chased out of a dig by a wild animal before? If so then what was it? Also I have another question, which is what is the most picturesque and beautiful dig site you've ever been on? What made it so pretty? Dr. David Fastovsky: Have you ever been chased out of a dig by a wild animal before? If so then what was it? Not a wild one. But I have been run off of land many times by bulls. I think a bison once expressed some disapproval at my presence. Also I have another question, which is what is the most picturesque and beautiful dig site you've ever been on? What made it so pretty? Kind of a toss-up between AZ-NM and Mongolia. When the sun sets in these deserts, the red cliffs glow bright orangered; it's stunning. Although there is this locality in Baja California which has fabulous outcrops to the east and the glittering Pacific Ocean to the west; looks like a resort! Dr. Jerry Harris: Never been chased off by wild animals, personally. I'm sure people have been, but I don't know any stories offhand. I do know some people that have worked in the Canadian Arctic, and everyone on the team had to be trained how to use a rifle because polar bears were common in the area. No one could go off alone--always in pairs or larger numbers of people. As for the most beautiful site, well, I've worked in a couple of places with vistas of tall, exotic mountains to look at all the time-- the Qilian Mountains in China and the southern Andes in Argentina. As a geologist, I find that really attractive! But I've also worked around the western U.S. in places with gorgeous sunsets, rolling thunderstorms, and such that I also find beautiful. Probably the least attractive site I've worked was a roadcut beside a highway in the middle of Texas--flat, boring, and unattractive. (Dr.) Jessie Atterholt: Though it makes for a boring answer, I m happy to say I ve never been chased out of a dig by a wild animal! Regarding your second question, I think I honestly have to say that every dig 3

4 site I ve worked at has been equally beautiful. I absolutely adore remote desert areas (I grew up in the desert of southern California), so I have a great appreciation for areas with big open blue skies, gorgeous mountain ranges in the distance, and beautiful geological formations where the fossils are. This description pretty much applies to most places I ve done fieldwork, from Anza Borrego in southern California to the rural farming town of Changma in Gansu Province, China. That said, speaking generally, I think Utah has my favorite places to hike and view geology. Tim H asks: I'm wanting to know what confrontations or problems you have had to resolve while you were uncovering and removing dinosaur fossils from what would be considered "sacred ground." Also, maybe a case where the local people or tribesmen thought the fossils themselves were to be sacred. Dr. David Fastovsky: I'm wanting to know what confrontations or problems you have had to resolve while you were uncovering and removing dinosaur fossils from what would be considered "sacred ground." If somebody tells me that he/she doesn't want me on the land, I don't go there. Period. It's not negotiable in my view. Others may see it differently. But I wouldn't get out to a locality without making sure that all the lights were green before I arrived. Also, maybe a case where the local people or tribesmen thought the fossils themselves were to be sacred. Well, in a sense, we do too! But we all have to agree on how the fossils will be treated, or nothing happens in my world, at least. Dr. Jerry Harris: Personally, I have not had any such experiences, though I know several colleagues that have. Some have successfully negotiated the cultural boundaries deftly, even involving the locals in the excavation processes, and maybe even taking on new students from local tribes. I don't have any details, however. As an example, the University of Texas at Austin has been doing some work on the Navajo Nation in Arizona, and the Navajos believe (as I am told) that the remains of the dead, human or not, should remain buried. How they managed to negotiate the ability to work there I have no idea, but they're pulling out some fantastic fossils of Early Jurassic dinosaurs. So it's obviously possible...i suspect that a lot of diplomacy, patience, negotiation, and compensation are involved. TRAINING: Deanna asks: If you could identify the most helpful part of your educational training (college) for this profession, what would it be. Likewise, what would you say was the least beneficial part of going to school for these digs? Dr. Mary Schweitzer: For digs, geology. For what I do, biology, chemistry, evolution, histology and molecular biology. Least beneficial? I don t know, I pretty much learn SOMETHING I can use from everything. I think the single most important part of my education was reading everything I could get my hands on, even in tangential areas. And, being curious, and finding connections. I work on dinosaurs but some of my best ideas came from a talk on Alzheimer s disease I attended. MOTIVATION: Sunny asks: What inspired you to become who you are today and motivates you to go out on finds when there are so many steps and processes to go through? Have you ever regretted going out on a dig? Is paleontology your true passion? I know that s more than one question but they seem intertwined to me. I think what has propelled my interest in class thus far is the detailed examination of anatomy. Dr. David Fastovsky: What inspired you to become who you are today and motivates you to go out on finds when there are so many steps and processes to go through? Because it's really awesome once 4

5 you get out there and start doing it. Have you ever regretted going out on a dig? Not that I can remember. Is paleontology your true passion? I have several things that I do, that really mean a lot to me. Earth history/natural sciences is certainly one of them. I know that s more than one question but they seem intertwined to me. I think what has propelled my interest in class thus far is the detailed examination of anatomy. Well - there's lots of that in paleo; but there's lots of that in other fields as well. (Dr.) Jessie Atterholt: Almost every paleontologist I know, including myself, was originally inspired to pursue a career in this field when they fell in love with fossils and extinct animals like dinosaurs as a kid. When I was about seven, this happened to me when my family was traveling the western U.S. and we stopped at many national parks and museums with fossil displays. I was enraptured by the skeletons and bones, and decided the study of them would be my career. So that s what inspired me to be a paleontologist. As for what motivates me to go out in the field in spite of occasional difficulties, I love that I get to travel to amazing places and see some of the most beautiful country on Earth. And, of course, the exhilaration of discovery when you find something is wonderful! I d say that the pleasure of the experience definitely outweighs the complications. As for the second part of your question is paleontology my true passion? Actually, I ve had to think about this one! It s interesting to me that you say study of anatomy has inspired your interest in your paleontology class, because I think that the study of anatomy and morphology are probably my greatest passion, as well. To be a good paleontologist, you of course have to know skeletal anatomy, but you also need to understand how soft tissue is placed in and around the skeleton. I ve done many dissections in my studies, and to me that s the most fun I ve had as a scientist. I m now learning to plastinate specimens to make teaching anatomy even more engaging and fun (it s the method they used to make the Body Worlds and Bodies exhibits). While I love paleontology, studying and teaching anatomy is probably my greatest passion. Kelsey asks: This might be an unconventional question, but what kind of discovery would be a paleontologist's "jackpot"? Is there some kind of missing link or Holy Grail of paleontology that everyone secretly hopes to find? Dr. Mary Schweitzer: Well, I can only answer for dinosaur paleontology. One missing link was a dinosaur with feathers but now we have dozens of them. One might be a juvenile T.rex. But we have those too. In my area, probably DNA sequence data, enough to do a phylogenetic study. We have protein sequences, and we have cells that show staining as if there is DNA there, but to be useable, there has to be sequence. We are still waiting on that one. Christofer asks: What are the stories and information behind your favorite fossil, whether it be one you discovered or not? What sets this one apart from the rest? Dr. David Fastovsky: What are the stories and information behind your favorite fossil, whether it be one you discovered or not? I don't really have a favorite dinosaur or fossil. I like them all, but for different reasons. Some are beautifully - exquisitely - preserved. Some are really important for particular scientific questions that we might have asked, and so are intellectually very satisfying. Some have come from localities that are very special; beautiful, or fun to collect, or... DISCOVERY: Jenn asks: I hope my question doesn't sound too informal, but is a true wonder of mine. As we have read in our textbook, some famous paleontologists were said to have a "smell" for finding the fossils and 5

6 locations. I would want to know if any others feel like they have this feeling of "luck", or just a "know" of where to look? Do you rely solely on scientific information and other sources as a rule for prospecting new finds, or do you ever feel like you get a "feeling" that leads you to the right spot? Do you have any stories of an amazing find that you felt was very lucky? Dr. Mary Schweitzer: My mentor, Jack Horner, is one of those, but I don t have that in the sense you mention. But I am blessed with a way oversensitive nose. Often how the fossils smell guides some of my questions and research. Kim asks: From your professional and personal opinion, do you believe that we have a chance to discover a new dinosaur species. If we did uncover a new bone structure of a fossilized dinosaur what are the steps taken to name the new species and who decides what to call the new-found dinosaur? Dr. Mary Schweitzer: I think we haven t even begun to find all the dinosaur stuff there is to find. The number of newly discovered organisms has grown exponentially. We have about 3 times the number of dinosaurs in the last 20 years as we had in the previous 2 centuries (roughly). If that trend continues, a lot of dinosaurs are out there waiting to be found. Dr. Stephen Brusatte: Absolutely! The pace of new dinosaur discoveries is insane these days. About 50 new species are being described each year, so that means that once a week (on average) somebody around the world is finding a totally new type of dinosaur. The majority of these are not found by distinguished professors, but by young researchers, students, and in many cases amateurs, farmers, and even construction workers. That is one of the great things about paleontology: you don't need reams of advanced training or fancy degrees to find new fossils, only patience and a keen eye, and of course, a little bit of luck. If you are fortunate enough to find a new dinosaur, the first thing you need to do is get it out of the ground carefully and back to a lab so it can be meticulously cleaned and conserved. Then you would want to start comparing it to other dinosaurs to see what general type of dinosaur you have. The literature and textbooks can be very useful for this. Once you basically know what kind of dinosaur you have (say, you know it is a theropod), then you'll need to do more careful comparisons to see if it is a new species or a bone of something that is already known. Visiting museum collections and observing a lot of real fossils is essential for this, or if you can't do that because of funding or logistics, then you may want to get in touch with an expert on those dinosaurs or a museum curator, who can send photos and notes and help with comparisons. If you determine that you have something new, then you get to name it! You would do that by writing a scientific journal article describing and illustrating the new fossil, and explaining what makes it distinct from all other known dinosaurs. You could name it basically whatever you want. But just don't name it after yourself--that's not allowed!!! Kory asks: I love dinosaurs, but the skeptical side of me always gets the best of me, so here goes: What makes you so sure the bones you're piecing together are correct? For instance, why does tyrannosaurus rex have such small forearms? What makes these arms practical on such a gigantic beast? What makes you so sure you're not attaching the wrong arms to t-rex and maybe they're all buried in a hodgepodge of different dinosaurs? Maybe he was killed by another dinosaur and his real arms were dragged elsewhere? Dr. Mary Schweitzer: Well with Trex that is easy. I believe at last count we now have about 27 T.rex specimens, many fragmentary, but enough to see body trends. And we have at least 2 with arms. And from what we can tell, Trex seems to be a loner. The skeletons are usually found with no other dinosaurs around. The first Trex ever found with an arm was one I worked on for my dissertation. That dinosaur was almost completely articulated, and not found with other dinosaurs, so we are as certain as 6

7 we can be that was its arm, not someone else s. But more to the point, many T.rex relatives, like Albertosaurus, also have tiny arms relative to their bodies, but not so exaggerated as in Trex. There are many features that unite this group of animals, and small arms is one of them. In that lineage, we can see a trend toward smaller arms and bigger heads. So phylogenetics an understanding of evolutionary relationships, is very informative for those sorts of questions. As to what they used them for, we don t really know, but there are a lot of ideas floating around. Kathryn asks: I've enjoyed learning about the changes and strides we've made in the understanding of our planet and the life that came before us. What is one thing that completely surprised you when you started working in the paleontology field? Dr. Mary Schweitzer: That there is a LOT more politics than I thought. And that funding is harder to get than I thought. And, that not everyone wants to know the truth, if it ends up conflicting with their pet theories. I was pretty naïve starting out. Jacob asks: I do like the idea of evolution because it allows us to explain more or less rationally the origin of humans. My question is this: According to you, is the idea stating that man was created by God false? If men are the products of evolution, can you explain me based on the theory of evolution how come that we have different races? Is it also related to the evolution? Dr. Mary Schweitzer: According to me, not at all. God is a good friend of mine! God says that he did certain things. He never told us how. I don t see a conflict. The theory of evolution states that natural selection processes act on a trait that confers some kind of advantage. So, looking at humans, most theories of human evolution suggest humans originated in Africa. Africa has a lot of sun. That is ok if you are an ape, with hair. But if you lose hair (another discussion) then, sun because a problem, one that is counteracted by dark skin. So, probably in the pre-human lines, they were all dark skinned. As some groups of humans moved out of Africa, dark skin became a problem. You need sun to make Vitamin D. So, in those groups of humans that moved north where the sun was not so strong and days were shorter, they produced less melanin and skin in those people groups became lighter. Lei asks: Is there any evidence to tell us which kind of dinosaur was the first to appear on Earth? If yes, what is the evidence? And do the existing discovery tell us what kind of organisms evolved to be dinosaur? Dr. Tom Braziunas: Hi Lei. No one else tackled this good question so let me say a couple words. A very recent published discovery in 2013 by scientists at the Burke Museum and elsewhere indicated that the dinosaur lineage might go back farther than 228 million years and much closer to the beginning of the Triassic. The bones of two specimens of a Nyasasaurus suggest that this creature may be the earliest dinosaur we have found. The vertebrae and humerus were found in sedimentary rocks in Tanzania that date back to 243 million years. It is an archosaur but how it fits into the dinosaur family tree is hard to say right now. With only a few bones to go on, paleontologists cannot place it for sure in either of the two main groups of dinosaurs (Ornithischia or Saurischia). It might belong to a separate group altogether. When you get far enough back in time to have a creature contemporaneous with the common ancestor of all dinosaurs, these relationships can be confusing but also pretty exciting! Chaun asks: This may be a strange question, funny even; but I randomly wondered about it so here goes. When in the field, finding bones is there a smell? I have been wondering about the possibility that some are different colors, of course sizes, weight and etc. 7

8 Dr. Mary Schweitzer: See above for smell. Color is influenced by the chemistry of the environment in which it is buried. 8