Christ in Prophecy Creation 12: Mike Riddle on Theistic Evolution

Transcription

1 Christ in Prophecy Creation 12: Mike Riddle on Theistic Evolution 2018 Lamb & Lion Ministries. All Rights Reserved. For a video of this show, please visit Opening Dr. Reagan: Can the Genesis story of Creation be trusted to mean what it says, or is it simply an allegory? Was the earth created in six days, or was it six billion years? Were Adam and Eve real people, or are they simply symbols? Is evolution a scientific fact or a mythical fantasy? And does it really make any difference whether this world and life are the result of special creation or evolution? Stay tuned for an expert's response to these questions. Part 1 Dr. Reagan: Greetings in the name of Jesus, our Blessed Hope, and welcome to Christ in Prophecy. My colleague, Nathan Jones, and I have a very special guest in the studio with us today. He is Mike Riddle, who is a very gifted and spiritually anointed teacher of Creationism. Mike, welcome to Christ in Prophecy, Brother. Mike Riddle: Thank you, Dr. Reagan. It's a pleasure to be here. Dr. Reagan: Always good to have you. Nathan Jones: Good to have you here, Mike. Mike Riddle: Nathan, thank you. Nathan Jones: I hear you have a very unique ministry. Can you tell us a little about it? Mike Riddle: Yes, we have a ministry called Creation Training Initiative. Nathan Jones: Ok. Mike Riddle: We started it in about And our purpose is based on 2 Timothy 2:2, makes it easy to understand just put Timothy in there. Where Paul is talking to Timothy he says, "Timothy now that I have trained you, you go out and do what I just did; you go out and train others how to teach also." Nathan Jones: Amen. Mike Riddle: And that's what we do in our ministry. We have training courses that train people how to speak and teach on biblical creation, and apologetics and how to defend their faith. Dr. Reagan: And I have attended that course twice and it is a week long, and it is absolutely fabulous. And it is all hands on. I mean people are given assignments. They get up they make presentations. They have to make defenses of the faith. It is an incredible course. Mike Riddle: And the only entertainment you get in that course is at night when you're dreaming. 1

2 Nathan Jones: Very practical though. Dr. Reagan: One thing I notice though is whenever the students make a mistake or whatever they're on the floor doing push-ups. Mike Riddle: Right, we do have a push-up box in the back of the room. That is just the Marine Corp thing. Nathan Jones: Can't take the Marine out of the man. Mike Riddle: No, you can't. Dr. Reagan: Well, Brother, I am anxious to jump right into this because we got a lot of material to cover so let's do that. And I want to start out with one of the questions that I pose at the beginning of the program about a website that is related to an organization called BioLogos. And on that site and I quote directly they have this statement right on their homepage, "BioLogos," which is a Christian organization now, "invites the church and the world to see the harmony between science and biblical faith, as we present an evolutionary understanding of God's creation." What is BioLogos and what is your response to this? Mike Riddle: Well, BioLogos was founded in 2006, so they are a relatively new organization now. But their main mission, as you just read there, is to train Christians specifically pastors, and Christian school teachers how to teach evolution from the pulpit and in the Christian schools. That is their main mission to do just exactly that. They hold conferences. And they actually pay, help pay for teachers and pastors to come to their sometimes week, or two week long classes. Dr. Reagan: So, they got a lot of money. Mike Riddle: They've got a lot of money. They are into the multi-millions of dollars in grants from organizations to teach evolutionism. Now, you mentioned they're a Christian organization. Dr. Reagan: Yes. Mike Riddle: That's Christian in name, because I think when we dig very deep we'll find out that they really don't believe a lot of things about the Bible. The Bible is not their authority. Nathan Jones: Would they consider themselves Old Earth Creationists? Mike Riddle: Absolutely. Billions and billions of years. Because that is what evolution is, that is the holy grail of evolution. Nathan Jones: So when we say Old Earth Creation we're then saying to create everything today God used evolution over billions of years to get us where we're at. Mike Riddle: No, no they don't even go there. Nathan Jones: They don't go there, ok. Mike Riddle: They're even worse than that. They don't even say God created necessarily, evolution happened from cosmological evolution, the origin of the universe, stars, galaxies. God didn't do that. He may put the first matter there, but then they even believe in biological evolution from ameba to man. They believe that man evolved from a lesser type creature, like an ape like creature all the way. So, they're 100% evolutionists. 2

3 Nathan Jones: Is it a deist like philosophy where God wound up the universe and then left? Mike Riddle: That is pretty much it. Pretty much it. God started it and then the big bang, and everything else is straight evolution. Dr. Reagan: Let me read you a statement about the president of this organization. He said, and I quote, "It is a travesty that young people who began the journey of following Jesus are told that they have to believe something which a little science education makes clear cannot possibly be the case." Mike Riddle: Well, here's a major problem with BioLogos also. There are a lot of majors problems they equate science and evolution. They use the word science all the time, meaning evolutionism. And evolution is not science it's a philosophy. So, that is one of the things they get these children, and they make Christians feel bad that they're not believing in science. And at time we all believe in science. Creationists do believe in science, we believe in the observable science. But they are saying evolution when they're saying science. Dr. Reagan: And you know one of the fundamental principles of science is observation, and testing. Who can do that with the creation? We only have one witness and that is God Himself. Mike Riddle: Right. But when you turn to evolution no one saw the Big Bang. No one saw a star--no one's ever seen a star or galaxy formed. No one has ever seen the origin of life by naturalistic processes. No one has seen one creature evolve into another. No one has seen billions of years create a big canyon. So what have we observed in evolutionism? Dr. Reagan: Well, Darwin said that in his writings-- Nathan Jones: Bird beaks, right? Dr. Reagan: --let's just be patient because the fossil record will ultimately prove it. Mike Riddle: Oh, we own the fossil record. Nathan Jones: Yes. Mike Riddle: The creationists own the fossils. Dr. Reagan: There are no transitions. Mike Riddle: No, when you go down to the bottom layers. Can I use some technical terms here? Dr. Reagan: Yeah. Mike Riddle: Pre-Cambrian and Cambrian layers. If you can't remember that I just say bottom layers. Dr. Reagan: The bottom layers. Mike Riddle: What we find down there are fossils of single cells, then fossils of very complex creatures with zero transitions in the middle there. Zero. Even the evolutionists recognize this. In other words we own the fossil record right there. Dr. Reagan: Yeah. 3

4 Nathan Jones: Well, how did they interpret then Genesis? I mean do they look at the Bible as just a book of poetry and then they allegorize it? Or do they even consider the Creation account? Mike Riddle: Number one BioLogos puts their understanding of the scientific evidence above scripture. In other words they use science, their understanding of science, not real science but their understanding of science. Then map in scripture to support their understanding of the scientific evidence or evolutionism. So in order to do that they allegorize all of the first several chapters of Genesis, meaning they are not real history. That's going to present a major problem with the rest of the Bible. Nathan Jones: Yeah, it is the foundation that the rest of the Bible stands on. Mike Riddle: Right, because the first three chapters is the reason the rest of the Bible had to take place. Nathan Jones: Is that why Satan always attacks Genesis because if you can kill Genesis then the faith in the rest of the Bible goes away? Mike Riddle: Wouldn't it be nice if our seminaries knew that? Wouldn't that be great? Nathan Jones: My seminary taught me that. Mike Riddle: Well, a lot of our professors out there don't seem to know that. Nathan Jones: Yeah. Dr. Reagan: Well, the Bible says that death came as a result of the sin of Adam and Eve. Mike Riddle: Yes. Dr. Reagan: What do they say? Mike Riddle: No, no, that's not true at all, we are misinterpreting the Bible right there. That's what they tell us. Dr. Reagan: Well, it says it point blank. Nathan Jones: Yeah. Mike Riddle: I know. And Genesis is not poetry. It's not an allegory. When you study the Hebrew language it's written in the narrative form, it is meant to be taken as historical fact, but they ignore that. In other words BioLogos uses a very bad hermeneutics. Nathan Jones: Well, what do they take from Christianity at all then? I mean it sounds like they've ejected it all. Mike Riddle: It's like any of the major cults. And this goes right back to the Garden of Eden, what Satan did. What they do is mix a little truth with false doctrines to make is sound inviting. And that is what BioLogos has done. They bring in God. You go to the website and it sounds pretty good. They believe in the resurrection. They believe Jesus died on the cross and resurrected, they believe that. But you go back and look what they don't believe they don't have an answer for why Jesus had to go to the cross. In other words you were just talking Dr. Reagan 4

5 that when do they deal with death? Where did death come from? Death is a natural process that occurred over billions of years of evolution. Dr. Reagan: But that is a direct violation of Scripture. Mike Riddle: It is. It's a--destroys the entire foundation of the Gospel. Dr. Reagan: You know I was looking up here Exodus 20 where the Ten Commandments are given and when it gets to the Sabbath Day it says, "Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God, you shall not do any work." And it goes on to say, "For in six days the Lord made the heavens, and the earth and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day." And that is not poetry. Mike Riddle: No, it is not. But, we are misinterpreting that. That's one of their-- Nathan Jones: How would they interpret it then? Because you'd have to do some handstands right to get that interpretation? Mike Riddle: Yes. And that is what they're doing. But see what they do again they focus on children to get the children to say to their parents, "What do you believe about evolution?" Then they work on the parents. See, they are infiltrating into the Christian schools by training teachers, getting with the youth, they hold youth conferences. And again they have so much money they can help pay for people to come to their conferences. Nathan Jones: Where does all this money derive from? Mike Riddle: One of the big ones is the Templeton Foundation. Dr. Reagan: Oh, yeah. Mike Riddle: They got a nine million dollar grant. Dr. Reagan: Say no more. Mike Riddle: Yes. And then they continue to get grants. So, when you go to their classes you don't have to pay a whole lot. Nathan Jones: Oh, makes it easy. Dr. Reagan: What difference does it make whether you interpret Genesis literally or symbolically? Mike Riddle: Wonderful question because we get that from a lot of people in churches today. It doesn't make a difference. It is a secondary doctrine. Well-- Nathan Jones: Secondary? Mike Riddle: Yes, and that is the kind of excuse. My reply to that is, "What's the difference between a primary and secondary doctrine?" Most people can't tell you that. But here's the difference it makes. Let's start with the Gospel. We are familiar with John 3:16, "For God sent His only begotten Son." I like to start there. But what about John 3:17? "For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but the world through Him might be saved." That word saved is critical to understand, to understand the Gospel. Why do we need to be saved? What do we need to be saved from? That takes us back to Genesis chapter 1 and starts off, "In 5

6 the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." He's the Creator. He sets the rules and standards for how we are to live. Then it says His creation was perfect. This is where we differ from BioLogos completely. It says that it was very good. Now, does that mean perfect? Well, Deuteronomy 32 verse 4 says, "The works of God are perfect." Creation is the works of God. So, God called His creation perfect. Not billions of years of death and decay. Then God gave us one rule, Adam and Eve one rule. See God is talking to a literal Adam and Eve. BioLogos does not believe in a literal Adam and Eve, which destroys the Gospel. Nathan Jones: Yeah. Dr. Reagan: You know to me if you cannot believe what Genesis says about Creation, why should you believe what the New Testament says about the resurrection? Mike Riddle: Exactly. And here's the contradiction-- Dr. Reagan: Or what it says about the Second Coming of Jesus. Mike Riddle: Yes. See they will call people who believe in the six day of creation, we are not understanding, we are misinterpreting the Bible. But, the atheists will do the same thing to BioLogos. BioLogos says they believe in the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, but an atheist will come back and say that can't happen. Why? Because scientifically you can't be dead for three days and come back to life. BioLogos is inconsistent. They believe in what they call science, they interpret everything based on their understanding of science. But then they go right back and say the resurrection must of happened, but it doesn't agree with what they know about science. Dr. Reagan: W.A. Criswell who was the pastor of First Baptist Church of Dallas for 50 used to refer to people like that as having leopard theology. He said, "They only believe that the Bible is inspired in spots, and they know what spots." Mike Riddle: Yes. Yes. So, there is a serious problem. And there are some warnings in scripture. I'd like to read a couple warnings here. I want to make sure I get the scriptures right. In Isaiah 5:20 there is a scripture that I think talks right to the members of BioLogos. Isaiah 5:20 it says, Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter." BioLogos is using something called evolution to interpret God's Word. They are using something evil that goes against the nature of God, and calling that light. Dr. Reagan: And to me evolution is one of the greatest fantasies that man has ever created. It is like standing in front of Mount Rushmore and saying, "Wow, isn't it amazing what can happen accidently as the result of erosion." It's just crazy. Nathan Jones: Well, wasn't Darwin's initial theory was that the single cell was a simple organism. Mike Riddle: Yes. Nathan Jones: Yet, they find out that the single cell is a massive complex, structures. Mitochondria for energy, and it has a permeability of the skin layer, and stuff like that. And Darwin at that time didn't have the ability to analyze the cell, right? 6

7 Mike Riddle: No, he didn't. And what's great today is we have an organization out there called the Institute for Creation Research, they are doing amazing research right now on the cell, and the DNA. And the more we find out about that the more we find about how great our God is. Not evolution. Dr. Reagan: Well, let's pause for a moment and we'll come back and discuss that. Part 2 Nathan Jones: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our discussion with Mike Riddle about creation versus evolution. Mike is the founder and director of a creationist ministry called, The Creation Training Initiative. Mike I took my kids once to the Perot Museum. And on the wall there is this picture of this volcano exploding and two australopithecine; an Adam and Eve type character looking in terror that they might be wiped out. And it seems not just the evolutionists but the creationists are now depicting Adam and Eve as some sort of cave man or monkey man. Is that true? Was he developed like us? Or was he more primitive? Mike Riddle: Well, the Bible clearly teaches that God created Adam and Eve fully grown, fully mature. But what is happening now is in our seminaries, there are Christian seminaries some are now teaching Adam and Eve are not real people. And this again is where BioLogos has a big influence and other ministries have a big influence. In other words it's not academically right today to believe the Bible, is what's happening. And our seminaries just simply aren't doing their job anymore. They are being academic, but they bought into the world too much. And yes, Adam and Eve were fully 100% human. But when you look at Christianity today there they are starting to train our children that that's not true. In other words you send our youth off now to our Christian universities, and Christian seminaries and they are going to come out of there, a lot of them not believing the Bible anymore. Nathan Jones: Well a lot of museums too you see where they have dinosaur models, you know they move, they roar and all that, but now they are starting go glue feathers all over them. Mike Riddle: Oh, yes. We own dinosaurs. I like to tell you. Nathan Jones: We do. Mike Riddle: We should never lose the dinosaur discussion. Guess what they found in dinosaurs? Soft tissue. With red blood cells protein. Dr. Reagan: How do they explain this? Mike Riddle: Oh, there is some unknown process that preserves soft tissue for 65 million years. Nathan Jones: Oh, come on. Dr. Reagan: That is interesting. Mike Riddle: That's their claim. Nathan Jones: When a fossils a rock? 7

8 Mike Riddle: Yes. And the fact that we are finding DNA in there which has a half-life of about 521 years. And we are finding carbon 14 in almost all the dinosaur bones now. That completely refutes the evolution story of millions of years, and the whole geological column. Dr. Reagan: Well, you just raised another issue. And that is a very important one, and that is DNA. When DNA was discovered I thought, well, this will surely be the end of evolution. How can they believe that DNA evolved? It is like saying that a software program evolved. Now how do they handle it? Mike Riddle: Here's the answer: over billions of years, millions of years, anything can happen. Now, when they say millions of years, I train students how to do this, millions of years what they're really saying is: We don't have the observable evidence, just believe us. Dr. Reagan: Just believe us. Mike Riddle: It's not science. Dr. Reagan: Their god is time. Mike Riddle: Yes. Dr. Reagan: If you just have enough time, enough monkeys, sitting at enough type writers six billion years they will write Shakespeare. Mike Riddle: And that's what they teach. That is not science. But yet they own the educational system. Here's the problem whoever owns the education system owns the next generation, and this is where the churches have fallen down. Nathan Jones: Mike, I used to do a lot of programming, when you were talking about DNA, DNA is the programming of mankind. We haven't fully mapped it out, it is beyond us it seems at this point. But when I did coding if you even put a period or a comma in the wrong place in the code the program shuts down, it stops, it doesn't know what to do. And if evolution had required to build DNA over millions of years slowly the organism would have shut down, stopped, never lived. And so how do they get past the simple fact that if DNA is such complex programming, with I believe proves a Creator, how to get the fact the you can't have junk DNA to create a creature that lives. Mike Riddle: You mention something junk DNA, there is no such thing as junk DNA anymore, they've done away with that. They were teaching that for quite a few years. Now the projects have been finished and there is no such thing as junk DNA. And how do they get around this thing? Again throw more time at it. Nathan Jones: Throw more time. Always the answer throw time, always the answer. Mike Riddle: And keep teaching the next generation evolution happened. Evolution happened. And they start believing it. And the other part is they do not allow on this subject critical thinking and analysis of evolution; that is disallowed in the school system. Dr. Reagan: You know back in the 20's when the Scopes Trial was going on the evolutionists said, "We just want equal time. Just give us equal time." Now it's we want all the time. We are the scientists, creationism is just faith. But evolution is as much faith as anything I've ever run across. 8

9 Mike Riddle: It's all faith; and it is a false faith. Dr. Reagan: And it's another religion. It really is a religious concept, it is not a scientific concept. Nathan Jones: People choose to believe it, it's not that the evidence leads them there, right? Mike Riddle: Yeah, they choose to believe it, and they are forced to believe it in the school system or lose their grade. And that is what is happening in our universities. Dr. Reagan: So, basically we've turned our school system over to humanists. Mike Riddle: That's right. Dr. Reagan: Who are teaching a humanistic philosophy which really is a religion. And they are teaching basically there is no God, there is no moral code that we are responsible to. And of course this is what they cling to because even the evolutionists will say point blank if there is a God then we are responsible to somebody and we don't want to be responsible to anyone. Mike Riddle: That's right. And we have organizations out there under the name of Christianity teaching just that and training our next generation to believe in evolution. You can have harmony--they can call it harmony between science and the Bible. Well as a creationist I do believe science will always, true science will always agree with God's Word. But what they're saying is evolutionism; when they say science they are really meaning evolutionism. But they get us for not believing in science. See that is a logical fallacy right there, and they use these things all the time, mischaracterizing. Nathan Jones: Well the Bible is full of science, right? Mike Riddle: Oh, it has never been wrong scientifically and it has a lot in there. Dr. Reagan: That is one of the things I love about your course is you teach kids, and people, I mean you have all kinds of people there are grown people, all kinds, not just kids. But you teach them how to think logically, and how to defend things logically, not only biblically but logically. Mike Riddle: Right, we want them to have a reason for why they believe what they believe, not just say the Bible says it. God never told us to go do that. He gave us three pounds up here, some people like to use one side, some people like to use the others. I always like to say some people just don't use it. But we are to be thinking Christians. Nathan Jones: Yes, Bereans. Mike Riddle: And we do believe in good science. We don't have to make excuses for the scientific laws, we accept the scientific laws. It is the evolutionists that are constantly trying to get around the scientific evidence. Dr. Reagan: Well, how do you deal with the assertion that well, we have dating mechanisms and these dating mechanisms show billions of years. Mike Riddle: Well, I had a professor ask me that during a Q&A time at a secular university. And I saw the students sitting up there. So, I thought I am going to try a tactic. I said, "Sir, if you would mind telling us all about the assumptions used in radiometric dating, then I'll tell you how it operates and everything." He would not do it. 9

10 Dr. Reagan: Yeah. Mike Riddle: Because he didn't tell his students about the assumptions. Dr. Reagan: Yeah. Mike Riddle: The assumptions destroy the dating method. Nathan Jones: Don't they take like if they date something and they wildly, radically different dating they will always take the oldest one? I mean I've heard of like animals that have been dated and the foot is millions of years old, and the leg is thousands of years old. I mean they even get different radiometric dating. Mike Riddle: We can take one rock sample, date it five different methods, get five different ages, vastly different ages. Nathan Jones: And they'll always take the oldest. Mike Riddle: And whenever we know when a rock sample was formed we never get the correct age. So, why would we trust it when we don't know when it was formed? Dr. Reagan: You know one of our trustees is a renowned scientist. In fact he was selected as Most Outstanding Young Scientist in America when he was about 35 years old, research scientist. Graduate of Stanford. He has a Ph.D. is astrophysics. And during his Ph.D. oral exams at Stanford they discovered he was a believer and they were shocked. And they said, "Why didn't you let us know this when you?" He said, "I became a believer while I was in your program." They were even more shocked. They said, "How could you?" He said, "Through the study of geology." He said, "In my study of geology I said how can this be? And I looked at various possibilities and I finally concluded the only way you can explain the geological record is a worldwide flood." Mike Riddle: Dr.--I'm glad you mentioned that Dr. Reagan, there are many scientists today, the Institute for Creation Research, Answers in Genesis, Creation Ministries International. Dr. Reagan: Real scientists. Mike Riddle: Real scientist, most of them got their degrees from secular universities. Why don't the Christians follow these scientist versus the ones that have compromised God's Word? Dr. Reagan: And speaking of the Flood. I don't know if all of them do, but many of them that deny that Genesis record as being literal, also deny a worldwide flood. Mike Riddle: Yes, BioLogos denies a worldwide flood. The whole ministry called Reasons to Believe, of Hugh Ross denies the worldwide flood. Dr. Reagan: I saw a cartoon recently that showed the Flood with just a big wall of water. Mike Riddle: Yes. Nathan Jones: Only one little area, right? Dr. Reagan: But it didn't go beyond the Middle East. Mike Riddle: Right. 10

11 Nathan Jones: So, just the Middle East is what they're saying is where the Flood was. Mike Riddle: Right, the Middle East area. And the Bible clearly says it covered the highest hills and mountains by 15 cubits. Dr. Reagan: Plus there is evidence all over the world of the Flood. So, how do they deal with that? I mean do they just say it's not true? Mike Riddle: They just say it's not true, and everything is evolution. Nathan Jones: What's at the top of Mount Everest? Mike Riddle: Seashells. Nathan Jones: Seashells. Mike Riddle: And guess what they don't have legs, which means they didn't walk up there. Dr. Reagan: Well, it is just so disconcerting. What you're really getting down to here is the fact that we all have the same evidence, but it is the way you interpret that evidence. Mike Riddle: Right. And we own the science. And if the Christians would just come and listen to this. If our university professors would drop their pride and go back to the Bible. The big bang never happened because the Bible says God spoke and it all happened, that is not a big bang. Our best scientists in the world cannot even create one single small biological protein, not even one so don't even talk the rest of the cell. We have seen large canyons form rapidly. Dr. Reagan: Absolutely. I mean with the--what was it? Nathan Jones: Mount St. Helens eruption. Dr. Reagan: The eruption of Mount St. Helens. Mike Riddle: And we know dinosaurs-- Dr. Reagan: We had a Grand Canyon overnight. Mike Riddle: Right. And we know dinosaurs have only been dead a few thousand years; the scientific evidence is overwhelming. Why can't people trust the real science versus the intimidation from groups like BioLogos who do not believe the same God that we believe? Nathan Jones: I think you nailed it intimidation. I mean it is group think. If you are the only lone kid. My daughter she is the only lone kid in her class who is saying, "Hey, wait a minute that doesn't make sense." Now the teacher is sympathetic towards Christians but the rest of the class is "We'll your stupid you should be believing in this." They have to conform or they are ostracized. Mike Riddle: Well, what we need then, I like to use these words we need pastors today with courage, honor, and commitment to God's Word. Nathan Jones: Amen. Mike Riddle: And that is not happening. They either don't know the full Gospel. They don't believe the full Gospel. And they're willing to just compromise on the Word. 11

12 Nathan Jones: And I think they often do not understand that when you spiritualize the book of Genesis the impact that has upon everything else. Mike Riddle: Yes, right. We need to retrain many pastors, or we need to get in and talk to them. But unfortunately they don't want to listen to this. They think BioLogos and other ministries have it all figured out with the science and they're not even willing to investigate it. If they just listen and trust God's Word for a change, and not worry about somebody in their congregation may not like them, and might leave and they tithe. Stop worrying about what people think about you, and start worrying about what God thinks about you. Dr. Reagan: Believe God's Word. Mike Riddle: Yes. Part 3 Dr. Reagan: Welcome back to Christ in Prophecy and our interview with Mike Riddle about creation versus evolution. Mike, tell our viewers how they can get in touch with your ministry. Mike Riddle: Well, they can go to our website called: creationtraining.org, or they can us at info@creationtraining.org. Dr. Reagan: And what about your website tell us about it. Mike Riddle: Well, if they go to our website one of the things they are going to see is we offer actual training courses, one day training courses up to a five day training course and we come to your location to do the one day training courses. And also Dr. Reagan we have many 30 minute videos they can watch for free on our website. Dr. Reagan: Ah, great. Mike Riddle: Over 80 different videos on all the topics. Dr. Reagan: And they're great because I've watched them. Mike Riddle: Well, thank you for that. Dr. Reagan: Well, folks that is our program for this week. I want to thank you very much for being with us. Mike Riddle: Thank you, Dr. Reagan. Dr. Reagan: It's just been a real blessing, always a blessing to have you with us. And folks, I hope it's been a blessing to you, I know it has been. Hope you'll be back with us next week. Until then this is Dave Reagan speaking for Lamb & Lion Ministries saying, "Look up, be watchful, for our redemption is drawing near." End of Program 12