Eva Deutschkron: Oral History Transcript

Transcription

1 Name: Eva Lauffer Deutschkron ( ) Birth Place: Posen, Germany (now Poznan, Poland) Arrived in Wisconsin: 1948, Madison Project Name: Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Eva Deutschkron Biography: Eva Lauffer Deutschkron was born in Posen, Germany (now Poznan, Poland), on November 12, Her widowed mother moved the family to Berlin. Young Eva was generally shielded from the growing Nazi terror until Kristallnacht. She witnessed the November 9-10, 1938, rioting that launched widespread violence against the Jewish community. Eva s family attempted to immigrate to the U.S. Delays in the U.S. Consulate in Berlin prevented the family from leaving. In October 1942, Nazi officials captured Eva s sister and the parents of her husband, Martin. Eva s parents were also eventually abducted and murdered. At 24, Eva and her husband were assigned to forced labor at the Siemens Munitions Factory. They eluded Nazi attention until January That is when Eva and her husband went into hiding. Helped by a number of Gentiles, the Deutschkrons survived the war by hiding underground in Berlin, the seat of the Third Reich. They experienced many harrowing events not only close calls with the Gestapo but also bombing from Allied warplanes. After the war, with the help of American soldiers, they re-established contact with relatives in the U.S. In May 1946, they emigrated from Germany, shortly after the birth of their son. Settling for a time in New York City, the Deutschkrons moved to Madison, Wisconsin, in November A daughter was born in From humble beginnings in a rented store, they established Martin's, Inc., a tailoring and retail clothing business with several locations around the city. Eva died in Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 1 of 133

2 Audio Summary: Below are the highlights of each tape. It is not a complete list of all topics discussed. Tape 1, Side 1 Family background and childhood The Jewish community in Kopenick, Germany German anti-semitism in the mid 1930s Difficulties finding work due to prejudice Tape 1, Side 2 Terror raids by the police Kristallnacht Attempts to escape Germany in the late 1930s Eva's courtship and marriage Tape 2, Side 1 Unsuccessful attempts to emigrate in the late 1930s Increasing anti-semitism Family moves to Berlin Doing forced labor, Tape 2, Side 2 Eluding the Gestapo in Berlin Deutschkrons go into hiding Life underground in the heart of the Third Reich Helpers and sympathizers Tape 3, Side 1 Life in Berlin, Accounts of near capture Bombing raids force repeated moves around suburbs Eva clarifies the sequence of hiding places around Berlin Tape 3, Side 2 Chaos in Berlin as war ends, 1945 Deutschkrons move to Borkheide Encounters with liberating Russians and Americans Deutschkrons return to a devastated Berlin after the war Tape 4, Side 1 Eva reviews her 1930s experiences again Attacks by SS and private citizens Nazi persecution and forced labor, Eva's outlook on life during these persecutions Tape 4, Side 2 Immigration to the U.S., 1948 Establishing a clothing business in Madison Early stores and business associates The Madison Jewish community Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 2 of 133

3 Tape 5, Side 1 Business ventures in Madison Eva returns to discussion of years underground Mental and physical toll of hiding People who assisted them while hiding Tape 5, Side 2 Cousin Erich Deutschkron Postwar years in Berlin, Pregnancy in postwar Berlin Difficulties immigrating to the U.S. Tape 6, Side 1 Help from Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society Intense interrogation by U.S. officials Difficult sea voyage First impressions of New York and Wisconsin Tape 6, Side 2 Family and work life in New York Move to Madison, November 1948 Kindness and prejudice in Madison Madison's Jewish community in the 1940s and 1950s Tape 7, Side 1 Family s business and social life in Madison American politics and culture Parenting, children's marriages Americans ignorance of and reactions to the Holocaust About the Interview Process: Tape 7, Side 2 Trips to Berlin in 1955 and 1978 Trip to Israel, 1970 Attitudes toward American politics and culture Anti-Semitism in the U.S. The interview was conducted by Jean Loeb Lettofsky during two sessions at the Deutschkron home on September 3 and 5, These sessions lasted three and four hours respectively. Eva requested that the names of individuals associated with her life in hiding not be publicized for a fifteen-year period. The names were deleted from the tapes and from the transcripts. The interview does not proceed in strict chronological order. Eva frequently admits confusion about specific dates and times. Nevertheless, her interview is rich with details about surviving within the very heart of the Nazi political machine. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 3 of 133

4 Audio and Transcript Details: Interview Dates Sep 3, 1980; Sep 5, 1980 Pictures: Interview Location Deutschkron home, Madison, Wisconsin Interviewer Archivist Jean Loeb Lettofsky Original Sound Recording Format 7 qty. 60-minute audio cassette tapes Length of Interviews 2 interviews, total approximately 7 hours Transcript Length 133 pages Rights and Permissions Any document may be printed or downloaded to a computer or portable device at no cost for nonprofit educational use by teachers, students and researchers. Nothing may be reproduced in any format for commercial purposes without prior permission. WHI Image ID WHI Image ID WHI Image ID WHI Image ID WHI Image ID WHI Image ID WHI Image ID WHI Image ID WHI Image ID Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 4 of 133

5 Transcript The following transcript is from the collections of the Archives. It is an unedited, firsthand account of the Nazi persecution of the Jews before and during World War II. Portions of this interview may not be suitable for younger or more sensitive audiences. It is unlawful to republish this text without written permission from the, except for nonprofit educational use. Key SL Sara Leuchter, archivist ED Eva Deutschkron, Holocaust survivor TAPE 1, SIDE 1 I'd like to start with your family background. Would you tell me your date and place of birth and the names of your parents and grandparents? I don't know all the dates offhand, but I give you as many as I can. I was born actually in Posen [Vilne? 0:50]. My father died shortly before I was born. My mother moved to Berlin when I was an infant, where I grew up then, and remarried a few years later. When were you born? I was born November 12, 1918, and we lived in the suburb of Berlin where I had a very sheltered childhood until the age of fifteen when Hitler came into power and things became unsettled. Before we get to that let s back up. What were the names of your parents, your natural father and then your stepfather? My natural father was Emanuel Lauffer. My mother was Hedwig, born Hollaender. My stepfather was Richard Hirschhahn. Where were they all born? My natural parents were born in Samter. And my mother was born in Samter, and natural father was born in, as far as I know, in Breslau. And Hirschhahn? [I] was born in Hanover and [I] grew up there. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 5 of 133

6 Do you know anything about your grandparents in terms of dates? No, dates I really don't remember offhand, but they all were out of the area from Samter. Do you remember their names? Doris Hollaender. I don't remember my grandfather's name offhand either. My natural grandparents, I didn't really know them. I met once my grandmother. She was a very small woman, but that's all I remember of her. Do you have any other recollections at all of either the natural grandparents or the parents of the second husband? Of my grandmother I have a very strong recollection my mother's mother because she moved with us to Berlin to assist my mother, at the time with two small children, and as a widow. She was a widow then, of course. And she was a very strong woman in every way and influenced my life quite a bit. In what ways? That she was a very disciplined woman and was never afraid to tackle anything and I admired her a great deal. And this was Doris Doris Hollaender, born Rothholz. Do you happen to remember, I know this is really picking your brain, any more of the names of the grandparents? Some place was the name Schmidt in between there. I don t remember. It has been so far removed from me. I should have had some papers there; their names were in, but In the preliminary interview you mentioned a Helen Beier. That was my grandmother, my father's mother. Okay, could you tell me something about the relationship with your parents? Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 6 of 133

7 I recognize my stepfather as my real father since I didn't know any different, and he was a very kind, very loving man. My real father couldn't have been any better than he ever was to us. In fact, we were never adopted and at the age of 1934, I must have been fifteen, sixteen my brother left for America and before he left I asked him if we should be adopted. My brother was by this time nineteen. I was fifteen, he was nineteen. He said, "Our mother didn't feel it necessary to do until now; I don't think we should change matters now." Which, unfortunately, later turned out to be very sad for us, because my parents could have come out on non-quota if we would have been adopted. 1 But who could know that? This way, my mother probably could have gone but she wouldn't leave my father behind, so everybody stayed behind and got killed this way. Which we, of course, didn't know either. Could we just talk a bit about your parents' occupations? My mother who originally wanted to become a schoolteacher, but she was a child of my grandmother was widowed very young too, and my grandmother didn't have the money for the education for her. So she said the girls have to learn a trade and my mother learned how to sew and this helped her later in her ladies' clothing business. My father, I understood, was originally a window trimmer and he too, of course, worked then with my mother in the business, which they had until shortly after the Crystal Night. 2 Now this was Hirschhahn? That was Hirschhahn. My real father was artistic too because I remember having seen some oil painting that he had done that got destroyed later through Hitler, but I know his background must have had something to do with art. Could you tell me the names of your siblings? 1 United States immigration law limited immigration from any given county to a quota assigned to that country, but the immediate family members of United States citizens were not counted toward the quota. Thus, if they had formalized their relationship to their stepfather, they could have facilitated his entry into the United States. 2 Mrs. Deutschkron uses the direct English translation of the German Kristallnacht, which refers to the events of November 9 and10, Mass arrests of 10,000 Jews coincided with coordinated attacks on Jews and their homes, businesses, and synagogues across Germany and Austria. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 7 of 133

8 My brother, his name is Heinz and he's four years older than I am, and my sister was a child out of the second marriage and she was nine years younger. And what was her name? Her name was Ruth. My daughter's named after her. And when and where were they born? My brother was born in Posen like I was, and my sister was born in Berlin. And do you remember their birth years at least? Yes. My brother was born December 8, 1914, and my sister was born May 23, What special recollections do you have of them? My brother lives in New York and we are in very close contact. From the early years? From the early years, brother and sister rivalry. He being the oldest one and the only boy of course was very much idolized. My sister was the love of both of us children, of the whole family, and she was taken much too early from us. We all adored her. But we had a wonderful childhood with her. She was a child that had developed asthma. Since we lived in the Köpenick, which was the outskirts of Berlin, there was a lot of water. The doctor at this time you didn't know as much about allergies as you know today. It was told that water, the humidity was causing the allergies and she should be away from this and she was put into a boarding school in the other side of Berlin, on the west side of Berlin, and would only come home on weekends. As I was so much older, and was a little later when dating my husband, he would pick her often up and bring her home, then he would take her back. We enjoyed it, it was a very close family life. Were there any other family members in your town or nearby area? I had a cousin living nearby in Köpenick. It was a relative of my natural father and the families were very close. My cousin herself died a natural death while her husband was killed in concentration Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 8 of 133

9 camp and their only child was sent on a children's transport to England and he's living in England and has a family there and we have seen each other. Did you have any family and/or close friends in the United States prior to the war? Yes, my brother immigrated to America in I myself, or my husband do you want to know? Your husband, too My husband's brother immigrated to the United States in My brother-in-law had immigrated to New York and they lived with his wife and baby there. My own brother was in the military. He had enlisted in the military to go to Germany as a spy. He wanted to see if he can see his family. Since he had looked Jewish, of course, he couldn't get into espionage, and was put into the military government, and he was stationed in Stuttgart. Which, my mother had once had we got card from the Red Cross after the war had broken out and she said, "He's in the military, he's a soldier! I read it in between the lines." And we never could talk her out of it that he is in the military service. And she was right. So he was never able to establish contact? He never did. In fact, after the war he contacted the Red Cross and they told him that everybody's dead. There are no survivors. We, of course, had nothing in writing but we remembered I have an uncle who's a scientist, and he was sent in 1934 by the Rockefeller Institute to Russia to lecture and other European countries, but they would not let him go into Germany. So he went on his own expense into Germany to see his family and took my brother along to America. I remember that he was sent by the Rockefeller Institute. I was so impressed by that. And this turned out to be a blessing actually because this was the way we found my brother again. I wrote in When the war was over we contacted American soldiers and we gave them letters and addressed them to Dr. Alexander Hollaender, Rockefeller Institute, Washington, DC. Of course many years had passed that we had contact with my uncle, and we didn't know where he was. We didn't of course know what became of him but at the Rockefeller Institute they knew that he was in Oak Ridge [Tennessee] with the Atomic Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 9 of 133

10 Energy [Commission]. So they forwarded the letters to him to Oak Ridge and he in turn forwarded the letter to Stuttgart where my brother was stationed. My brother contacted us and by that time I was married and lived in Berlin. I really jumped quite a bit here. We can get to that in a little while. I'd like to go back to Berlin and Köpenick. Could you describe your community and immediate surroundings? We had a very nice small Jewish community. We had our own synagogue. My father was one of the here you call it vice-presidents in the community, in the congregation. In fact, he had grown up together with the rabbi. The rabbi was from Hanover too. Who was the rabbi? Rabbi Frank. In fact, Rabbi Swarsensky 3 knows him. So we had a very strong Jewish upbringing. In Europe you have religious training in the public schools where the rabbi comes in and teaches. While the other children are taught their religion, you get taught your religion. So this was a way my background was formed. We lived in this community until the Crystal Night and then things got destroyed. I'd like to back up a little bit. Could you tell me a little bit description of your home? We lived above the store. We had lived on the first floor with the family, a maid my parents had a full-time maid; the wash woman came in. This was, I guess, kind of the background of a larger household. We had a first floor apartment. It was another apartment and the third floor apartment my grandmother lived. There was a room for my brother; there was a room for the maid. Was the building your family's? No, it was not my parents building. It was rented. And our life was around the business actually. My mother was active in the business but at the same time took care of the family and our grandmother was very much part of our daily life. 3 Rabbi Manfred Swarsensky, a leader of the Madison Jewish community, was also interviewed for the Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust oral history documentation project. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 10 of 133

11 You settled in Köpenick in 1922? About 1922 we settled in Köpenick and we stayed there until after the Crystal Night. You started talking about your education and that you were quite an observant family. Could you tell me a little bit more about the religious life in your family, synagogue attendance, the traditions and rituals in the home? Synagogue attendance was every Friday night of course, and Saturday morning, and every holiday was kept, a kosher household. Daily synagogue attendance? I don't recall. Not for us children. For the father? My father, it's very possible that he went almost daily. But I know there were many meetings, or the people that were active in the congregation were all friends. They were together and they were all one big family actually. There was a beautiful little synagogue. Just beautiful. Could you tell me a bit about it? Was a traditional service, women upstairs, men downstairs and children on the side and the shammes 4 and the rabbi and I think we had a cantor if I'm not mistaken. I think on high holidays we had a cantor. I remember so vividly, when we had our religious service, our rabbi would always give us a prune. That was a highlight of our religious training! [laughs] And one day I came and said, "Could I have one for my girlfriend, too?" and he got such a kick out of it that just meant so much, to come and ask for the girlfriend, too. Children have the funniest reactions. Our life was very much centered, was actually very Jewish. There was no mingling or very little assimilation I would say. No, I would say very little of it. You said that in school you had your religious instruction while the Christians had theirs? 4 Yiddish for the caretaker of a synagogue. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 11 of 133

12 Yes, and I think there was one afternoon a week yet besides of it. I somehow remember Wednesday afternoon we had to go to temple. And Rabbi Frank taught that? Yes. And he came into the schools also? Yes. How many years did you have that? All through my school years, until Untersekunda. 5 What age? Fifteen, sixteen. It was twice a week in school and I think once in the synagogue. Were any members of your family nonreligious? No. Everybody was observing. You were starting to talk about the Untersekunda. Could you tell me about your education. In Germany you go to grade school until the age of ten. Then, if your family can afford it you are sent to the Gymnasium, 6 which there you start learning foreign languages and actually begin your higher education, or your better education. It's more private actually because you have to pay tuition in the schools. I went through Untersekunda into Übersekunde, 7 when I got the whooping cough. My little sister had gotten the whooping cough and I contacted from her and was three months very sick with it. I had hated school by this time because I was singled out as a Jewish child. I had very much interest in art and crafts and that was selective in Gymnasium. As a Jewish child, I was not permitted to take part in any selective programs. Even so my parents had paid the tuition just the same as anybody else, I still wasn't permitted to. It made me very unhappy because here the people that 5 The sixth year of German secondary school. 6 German secondary school. 7 The seventh year of German secondary school. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 12 of 133

13 wanted it had all the opportunities while I didn't have them, and I was after my parents to let me quit school and let me learn something. What year was that? That was about 1934, it must have been. My parents had different plans for my education, but then I went back after I had the whooping cough and just was so terrible unhappy, and I had shown artistic abilities, so my mother took some of my drawings that I had done at home to show one of the suppliers where they had bought lady's clothing, and he said, Your daughter is showing some talent here. If you want me to I give her a chance in my Atelier." 8 My mother said it would be good for me then to learn a trade. And so he hired his first apprentice in this. We made only samples. Twelve machines there, seamstresses had only made samples for their wholesale house, dress samples, for the mannequins. He gave me the chance and my mother enrolled me in art school where I learned designing. Where? In Berlin. In the center of Berlin. I had to ride the trolley car for an hour to get to work. And this was 1935? The end of 1935 it must have been. Was this after you finished at the Atelier or during that time? No, then I started at the Atelier about For three years I learned the tailoring trade there, and I went in the evening to school at the same time and learned the designing. Also, in Europe when you are an apprentice, you have to go to school too. I think a couple times a week you have to go. I don't even recall too much of it anymore. And that you did during the day? That you do during the day. It's a trade school where you learn some more things. I don't know, for part of it I was excused because I was in Gymnasium, and I think I had more education than the 8 German for a fashion designer's workshop. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 13 of 133

14 children that went only to grade school and went through school only to fourteen years of age. Because I don't remember too much of that trade school. I know it was required, but I don't remember too much of it and I think for part of it I did go. Because this is supposed to supplement the education, I guess, and I didn't need that. So I went through my three year apprenticeship and at the end of it you are supposed to pass an exam that you have successfully fulfilled this apprenticeship. And I remember I made a dress for it with all little scallops and an awful lot of work on it and when the time came to apply for it, the application came back: "Jews are not permitted." So, our women in the Atelier were very disappointed because somehow they seem to have thought I did a good job, and in their own way passed me, and they felt very bad for me. And since the boss seemed to have been satisfied with me, he hired at the same time the daughter of some other employee there and gave her also an apprenticeship and she was nothing but a disappointment to everybody. But she passed. Not Jewish. Not Jewish. While of course I wasn't allowed to. But even so, then later on I worked for a short time as a seamstress in another place. This place was sold then to I forgot even the word. In a Jewish place the government put in somebody to administer the place because, like the political party, Jews are not capable of administering their business anymore. Things were made difficult for me then when this man came in. So I quit working there and I got another job where I worked for a while as a seamstress then, until 1939, I was put into forced labor by Hitler. Let me stop the tape here. END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1 Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 14 of 133

15 TAPE 1, SIDE 2 I'd like to back up a little bit and ask you about the places you worked and the places where you studied your trade. Even in the Gymnasium before that, you mentioned, of course, anti-semitism. Did this anti-semitism follow you? To some extent, yes. When I think back of school, I became very close friends with a girl whose father was a Democratic senator. In 1934 we were walking on the street, if small groups were marching around the streets, and they carried a flag, you had to greet the flag with a traditional Hitler greeting. And of course neither my girlfriend Emily, whose father was by that time in concentration camp, was willing to greet the flag which brought so much unhappiness into our house, and neither was I. So we both quick turned around and looked in a store window when, through our greatest shock, we were slapped in the face because we did not greet the flag. Somebody ran up over to us and slapped us in the face. So after this, whenever we were on the street and groups with flags would march, we saw them from farther away we would run into a hallway to hide. Because we absolutely refused to greet the flag. What did you do when you were slapped in the face? Cried. Of course you couldn't fight back I assume? No, there was no fighting back. You just stood there stunned and started crying and learned your lesson. Of course, when people disobeyed, they marched them off to concentration camp. I remember once incident very vividly. Their group was marching with like the policemen framed them, but it was actually SS men, and the men in the middle were all holding their hands in a peak on top of their head. They were marching them through the streets this way in order to show the others, "We mean business." Now this was already when? Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 15 of 133

16 That was after So, they knew how to keep you in line by showing you enough discipline that they enforced. I had other girlfriends which didn't want to be seen with me anymore because they were Hitler Jugend, 9 while my mother had arranged or my father had arranged to see that I joined a Zionist group in Berlin. Because by this time, things had become so difficult for me with my girlfriends, with social life, that they felt it was very necessary. The Werkleute, 10 I joined and would go every week into Berlin for meetings. We would go out on hikes together. This one girlfriend that I had grown up with said to me one day, "I can't see you anymore. I'm in the Hitler Jugend now and they don't permit me to see a Jewish girlfriend. They would throw me out and you wouldn't want me to be thrown out." And I was very unhappy. She said, "You got your Zionist group. You don't need me anymore." So, there went my best girlfriend, and then I became later close friends with this girl whose father was in concentration camp. And after the war I still had my heart a little bit on this first girlfriend, Elsa I think it was her name, and I looked her up after the war. I couldn't stand it. She had married a teacher of hers who was an SS man and he was taken away from her. She had a child with him. And she asked me then, was very happy to see me, says, "Oh, Eva you have to help me get my husband back." And I said, "Dear Elsa, I'm very sorry, but I remember some things, how your feelings were, and there's nothing I can do for you." And I never saw her again. I'd like to go back to the Zionist youth. Did your family belong to any other cultural or political clubs? Except to B'nai B'rith, they belonged. I remember the lodge very vividly. I did know of ORT 11 from Germany. I did know very much of Hadassah. 12 I'd heard very much of Hadassah in Berlin. Was the family involved in these at all? Apparently they were, because why would I know of the organizations? But I don't remember too much of it. 9 German for Hitler Youth. 10 A German Zionist youth organization. 11 An international Jewish vocational training organization, Organization for Rehabilitation through Training. 12 An international women's Zionist organization. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 16 of 133

17 But you yourself were involved in the Werkleute? Yes. Did you have any ideological teachings or was it just social? No, we had many. What did they teach? Actually, as a whole we learned the Jewish background Martin Buber, and Leo Baeck, and about Israel, and we learned Hebrew, and we were trying to prepare to go to Israel. The Werkleute is the Labor Zionists, isn't it? Yes. There's a kibbutz by the Werkleute in Israel. Oh, which one is that? I have it written down but I don't know the name offhand. I had lost contact other people later on. So several of your friends, I assume, went to Israel? Went to Israel, yes. And of course we all got dispersed into various countries in the world and some got killed. It all ended actually for me in 1939 when I married my husband who was not active in any of the organizations. So, of course, this stopped it all. Since many things were curtailed for you because of your religion, were you able at any time to participate in cultural activities? No. In the schools or in the trades? No, not at all. Not under Hitler, no. Now I'd like to ask you something about your and your family's identification with the community. What languages did you speak at home? German. Only high German. To what group did you feel you owed more allegiance? Did you feel more German or more Jewish? Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 17 of 133

18 When I think back of it, my father who was my stepfather actually but I called him my father all the way through and I always felt he was my real father because he's the only one I knew he had fought in the first world war and was wounded. He had always said when things with Hitler became a little more rough, "I've bled for Germany. Germany won't let me down." Of course, he had quite a shock later on when Germany very nicely let him down. First it was told then they would go to Theresianstadt 13 where things are so much better for the people. Of course, he didn't end up in Theresienstadt. I don't think he ever made even Auschwitz, because they were in a very infamous transport that never landed anyplace. I don't know if you have heard of this transport, it was October 28, 1942, when the Jewish community people no, my sister landed in this transport October 28, My parents were taken too, but had sent back. My parents were not taken away then until the very end of the war. That transport my little sister was kept in then and my husband's parents and it landed no place. We can come back to that. Now, we've talked about some incidents of anti-semitism and you mentioned to me that there many attacks on Jews, in the preliminary interview. Were you referring to the things that you mentioned to me in the pre-interview? No, there are some other incidents. For instance, I mentioned my parents had this ladies' clothing store. In 1938, in November, my mother had a visa to go to America to visit my brother, who at this time had just graduated the University of Wisconsin here in Madison. It was about November 10 that she was leaving for America, and on November 8 we heard the people that lived in between our apartments calling out to the people that lived in the attic of the building, "Tonight at this and this hour (I forgot), we pick up Hirschhahn, Frank," and there was another, I forget the name. At this moment, it slipped my mind. Mentioned numerous names of the Jewish community that were all on the board of directors. And I ran in and told my parents what I had heard and we all quick grabbed whatever we 13 A concentration camp which the Nazi government, for propaganda purposes, portrayed as a model community, rather than the center for forced labor and extermination which it was. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 18 of 133

19 could grab and grabbed the small suitcase for my mother to leave for America, and went to aunt in Neukölln, another part of Berlin, to hide us. And sure enough, during that night they picked up we called yet all the other Jews what we heard, that something is going on during the night. Some disappeared like we did, and others didn't want to believe it and stayed. They were picked up during the night and taken to concentration camp. While that was the Crystal Night. All the windows were broken. You remember that mugs were thrown and stones up into our apartment into the windows and everything was in shatters. My mother must have left just a few days later than the tenth [of November] yet because I remember that my father broke completely down when he had heard that I had gotten into a streetcar and the streetcar drove by at our building, and I wanted to go in and get some more things for my mother to take on her trip. My husband who was at this time I don't know, was he my boyfriend or were we engaged already, I don't recall but anyway he had called up at my aunts and they had told him that I was taking the trolley car to Köpenick to just see what really went on there. When my husband heard that, he grabbed the cab with his brother and went out to Köpenick to see that no harm would happen to me. They got out of the cab and told the driver to wait and went to the apartment and rang the doorbell. That scared the living daylights out of me because I was in there. I don't know if I let them in. I don't think I opened the door for them. I didn't know it was them. I grabbed the small suitcase with more things for my mother to take and got back into another trolley car unnoticed and went back to where my parents were. My husband my boyfriend at that time came then there too and they were happy no harm had happened to me and I told them that everything was in shatters. Then my mother had to leave and my father was completely broken down. He was incapable of making any decisions or anything. His wife had left for America and here everything was in shatters. We stayed for a few days there. And then, through an old employee who knew then where we were, we were notified that we have to fix everything at our expense up again. It was our fault that it was. No insurance would pay it, nobody would, it's we have to do it. So, I was only eighteen years old and I had to go out, make all the arrangements, take care of it all, and clean it all Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 19 of 133

20 up. I don't even remember who helped me. I'm sure I wasn't doing it all by myself. My parents had a quite nice clothing store, quite nice sized one, and we opened up again. Then after three, four days my father came along out too, and we got things going for a short time. My mother wrote then that she had heard in America that things would be getting worse and so on, and wrote me a long letter of what to do. We should try to sell the business and break up the household and she would see that she gets affidavits for us and we should all come to America. I was not engaged yet, that's right, because I was afraid I wouldn't get my Martin. So if my mother didn t come back (phone rings) I'd like to back up a little bit and talk more about the reactions among the family and the reactions you perceived among the community to the growing anti-semitic attacks in Germany, as early as 1922 when Walther Rathenau 14 was assassinated? 1922 or 1932? I wouldn't know anything about that. Do you have any information from the family on that? No. Although you were young then too, do you have any recollection of Rosh Hashanah 1931 when the Jews returning from Kurfürstendamm synagogue were attacked? No, we were in the suburb of Berlin then. I had very little contact with the it was actually a completely separate community. And that had no repercussions at all? Not on me personally, no. My parents probably, yes. But we were very sheltered from these things and tried to protect the children not to upset them. "Things will get better." Until 1933 we really knew very little what was happening. 14 A German Jewish industrialist, writer, and government official who was assassinated in 1922 by right-wing German nationalists. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 20 of 133

21 So you knew nothing of the murder of the Jewish physician Dr. Philippstahl, or the suicide of Rudolf S. Mosse after his mistreatment in prison, or the book burnings? With the book burnings we started to realize. What kinds of things were talked about at that time in the Jewish community? That it was very frightening and that "things are not looking good. But Hitler cannot last. He will not make it and Hindenburg will not get that involved with him," and all these things. Until Hitler was all of a sudden there. What did people say when he was appointed chancellor? I've very little recollection except great fright. And still hope, I assume. Oh, very much hope. And of course my father feeling he was a German soldier he felt kind of a little bit maybe smug. "There are some that come from other countries that will feel it but we won't because we are Germans and we are so interwoven." The Germans felt very strong, I think, for Germany at this time. Even being in Berlin, right in the center of the government and decisions? Yes, I think so. Yes, I think the community felt very secure. Now this is, again, March 1933, what did you and what the community know of the telegram which the Vorstand 15 of the Gemeinde, 16 under orders from Goehring, sent to the American Jewish Committee to the effect that there were untrue reports about atrocities and boycotts? I personally knew nothing of these things. The only thing that I remember at this time is that my brother was a Feilring. It was a political democratic party and that he was politically active, which we did not know. That was 1933 he was supposed to make the [inaudible: equivalent to high school diploma], and my brother is, let me say so myself, a brilliant man. And he was flunked because he 15 German for governing board. 16 The Nazi-recognized congregation of Jews in Germany. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 21 of 133

22 had written a paper about Hitler on top of it yet all. My parents of course thought, "Oh, he did wrong. He should go another year and he will make the [inaudible]. It will all be fine." There was luckily a very friendly teacher who came privately to my parents and said, "Don't let Heinz do it again. He will not pass it." At this time my uncle had come through or was planning on coming through and my parents, even they were told "Take admission to the [inaudible] and send them out. This will be recognized in America." Luckily, he was booked on an American ship and somebody got wind of it that he was leaving Germany and my father had brought him to Bremen, I think the ship left from and had seen him off on the ship. As my father was standing on the shore and my brother was on the American ship, the Gestapo came to arrest my brother. They couldn't get him. He was on American ground already. My father came back of course when we found out that he never told us that he was politically active. You found that out afterwards? We found that out afterwards. So was the Feilring mostly composed of Jews? No, I think it was not Jewish. It was anti-hitler? Yes. We talked about it not long ago. He had these metal knuckles in his pocket to protect himself. So he knew what he was doing, but he thought that there was still a chance to subdue Hitler and the people that were supporting Hitler, which of course there was none. And luckily he made it out. Since your father was active in the Vorstand, do you remember anything about the Gemeinde leadership and it's openness or lack thereof in sharing information about official contacts with the government? These things were not talked to children about. You don't remember hearing anything? No. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 22 of 133

23 Do you have any impression whether the Vorstand tried to appease the people or tell them that their fears were indeed well-founded? I don't have any recollection of that either. And do you have any recollection of the role of the rabbis? Very strong, the rabbi was very strong for our family. In terms of appeasing the people or telling them it will pass? No, I don't think. When I became aware of it, I was about fourteen, fifteen at the time. In Europe of course you are much longer a child than in this country, and my parents were very protective of us to shelter us a lot. So very little was talked to us, and children don't know any of these things what go on in the inner family. I really am very little aware of it. I only really am aware of that night before the Crystal Night, as if life began for me. Really a rude awakening, I probably had at that time, and the few incidents I had with my girlfriends. The rabbis played a strong role, but he too disappeared. When did he disappear? He went to France then. I don't remember at what time, but the community just dissolved all of a sudden. All around Kristallnacht? All around the Crystal Night. Everybody went in different directions. As things got worse, how did the community react? What specifically did people do? Tried to get out. Tried to get into, wherever they could get into which country. Of course, America was looked at as a haven of it all, the most wonderful country in the world. We had many opportunities to go to Argentina, to Dominican Republic, but these countries, all South American countries, were all looked down at, or China, because life was too hard there. But it turns out, I think these people all came out very well in these countries, and if we would have known, not so many would have had to die. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 23 of 133

24 How did people react to the Nuremberg Laws, 17 or again were you too young to be aware? Too young to be aware. And see, then in 1939 when I got married, we were fighting for our life, for survival to get out of the country, for survival actually only, and very little I personally bothered with what went on in the world, because I had to worry from day to day what will be tomorrow. We had tried to get out. We had tried to get to America, we had tried to see if we can't get smuggled out of Germany. And one time we came very close to it, and I think luckily we did not went the last step then, because Martin was supposed to be a wounded man, and I was supposed to be dressed up as his nurse, and we wanted to go over the border to Switzerland this way. We didn't do it. We got cold feet the last minute, and I don't think we would have made it. When was that? Was that in 1939? That must have been 1939, 1940, because we were married already. Before we go on, let me stop the tape here. END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2 17 Laws passed in September, 1935, barring marriage or reproduction between Jews and Gentiles, and creating a secondclass level of citizenship for Jews. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 24 of 133

25 TAPE 2, SIDE 1 Just a couple more incidents I'd like to mention to see if indeed you did have a reaction to some of them. Such as the announcement of the passports with the "J," and the "Sarah" and "Israel." 18 What kind of reaction did you have to those? Very upset. Very disturbed about it. Didn't it come about 1939? Yes. Because I remember, I was married already, and had to wear the Jewish star and add the name "Sarah" for the women and Israel for the men. By this time we were in total tumult inside ourselves. I feel today still that the despair, just, "What next?" Vague helplessness. Did people actually take the time to sit down and talk about things? Was there any time for rational thought? Very little. You were so involved in your every day survival and the news and the badgering of the Jews was done so furiously that you just didn't know what was next. I mean, your liberties were taken, your food was shortened to a point where you came near starvation, and it was just a steady battle. From one thing to another. What about the people who insisted, probably more than your father, that "it will be okay, it will be okay." Did you have any contact with those? No, my parents actually got their here you would say their wings clipped or their courage broken when my little sister was taken away. This was the end of their strength, and what is worse for parents than to have a fifteen-year-old child taken away from them, that really has not lived, and never given them any problems? The wind gets knocked out of your sails. She was a darling of everybody. We were married by this time. My husband loved her dearly and we all tried to spoil her without knowing what would the future hold. If it wasn't one thing, it was another thing. My parents were fixing 18 The Nazi government decreed that Jews' passports bear the letter "J," for Jud (Jew) on Oct. 5, Men were required to add the name "Israel" to their names, women to add "Sarah" to theirs on Aug. 17, Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 25 of 133

26 uniforms, it was forced labor, and because they were doing this, they were taken away from my sister when they took her. The same was for us, because I was doing forced labor in the factory. I was making ammunition. We were not supposed to be taken until the very last minute. Anybody that was of use to them, they kept till the last minute, and made life more and more difficult, as difficult as they could. But we were of used to them yet. And the ones, like my sister, by this time, the children were not permitted in the public schools. There were parochial schools for the Jewish children. She had to ride a long way, ride trolley car, to go to this parochial school. 19 And the school was a school, I think you could only go to the age of fourteen. Then the law came out and she was already fifteen by this time and she had asthma so we got her into the Jewish community to become a children's nurse in the Jewish nursery school. Of course, these people they are first evacuated. They were first taken into concentration camp. So because, here we had taken her out of the school to protect her and see that she learns something and here they were the first ones to be taken because they were useless. Who needed to take care of Jewish children? That's how she got so early into concentration camp. When was that? October What happened to the your parents and your husband's parents? My parents were picked up at the same time as her and they were sent home because my parents were doing forced labor which consisted of fixing military uniforms, doing tailoring on them, and this was needed. So they were sent home after they were already in the synagogue which was made into a receiving camp and they had to leave their child behind. My in-laws were picked up at the same time and they were kept there. In the synagogue? In the synagogue. But that was the transport that never arrived, because they had taken all the people from the Jewish community that worked for the Jewish community and my father-in-law wasn't 19 A law passed Nov. 15, 1938, expelled Jews from public schools. Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 26 of 133

27 working for the Jewish community. I don't know how he got into this transport. He was at this time doing forced labor on streets, doing street work, construction work or whatever. If they didn't have enough people to fill up the train or what it was, I don't know, and we had know a Gestapo man. When my parents came back, I remember we gave this Gestapo man 500 marks to see if he carry my sister out, smuggle her. He didn't bring her. He was happy with the money and we never saw her again. What happened then, your husband's parents went with that transport? They went with that transport and we never heard or saw them again. And I understand that your parents tried to go to Cuba? That was before we got married. My brother was here in Madison. When my mother was here in America, she realized at this time that I wouldn't leave without my husband, and approached Fannie and Herman Mack. My brother knew Sam Beers, who was a minister. Sam Beers, in turn, knew Reverend Swan. My brother met Reverend Swan then, together with my mother, and he promised my mother that he would see that we he gets an affidavit for my now husband and me. That came out of when he contacted Fannie and Herman Mack, which my mother hadn't met. My mother had left already America by that time. They gave affidavit for us, and in order to have the affidavit made out, I had to be married so it would be made out in one name. So we got consent from my parents and we got married in May, 1939, to be in America three months later which three months never came. After my brother had affidavit for my parents, I don't recall how the affidavit was because my brother had no money. Somebody had to guarantee their affidavit. I know my mother could and my sister could come in non-quota, but not my father, since he wasn't adopted. There must have be somebody in between this affidavit yet to guarantee, but my brother would know at this moment I don't recall how the affidavit for my parents really went. But they should have been able to make America at this time because your registration number was up, but something went wrong in Berlin there. This was May 1939? May Oral Histories: Wisconsin Survivors of the Holocaust Page 27 of 133