Global Access Conference 2015 Panel Discussion Disability & the Emerging Contours of Global Christianity Moderator: Ben Rhodes

Transcription

1 Panel Discussion Moderator: Ben Rhodes Panelists: Jubin Varghese, Allen Yeh, Natalie Beazer

2 Joni: Ben Rhodes: Hi, I'm Joni Eareckson Tada and you're listening to a resource from the Global Access Association, sponsored by Joni and Friends. Learn, connect and share at Global Access, where disabilities and possibilities meet. So, if you're looking for the panel on Disability and Emerging Contours of Global Christianity, you are in the right place. And if you're looking for somewhere else, then you should go out and take a right. Or walk straight across. And you'll find the other panels. We won't judge you as you walk out, I promise. Thanks for taking time out of your afternoon to join us in what we hope will be an interesting and lively conversation about some of the changing contours of global Christianity. Let me spend just a minute or two framing the discussion and then I'll have our panelists introduce themselves and then we'll get started. Most of you in this room probably are well aware that Christianity is certainly not confined to North America. In the last couple of decades, people in the West have becoming increasingly aware of the fact that the center of gravity of Christianity is not currently, and certainly will not be in the future, in North America or in what we sometimes call 'the West' - Europe and Canada and the United States of America. Christianity is exploding all over the world, oftentimes in places where there's significant persecution, or at least cultural hostility. One of the fascinating things that we want to talk about here is - what is that shift in the center of gravity, so that Christianity is now more vibrant, in some ways, in the global south, or the majority world, or two-thirds world, or developing nations- whatever term you choose to describe that. Christianity is more vibrant and active in some interesting ways, outside of North America, which is a change for us from those who live in North America. And that has impact in all sorts of ways. Since we're here at a conference about people with disabilities, we're going to focus on what that has to do for disability ministry and the inclusion of people with disabilities in the Church. But before we turn to that conversation, I'd love to introduce our panelists. So, I'm going to turn to my left and if you guys could take a minute to introduce yourselves to our audience. Natalie Beazer: Well, good afternoon. My name is Natalie Beazer. Originally, I'm from Antigua, which is a small island in the Caribbean, but I now currently reside in Minnesota. Go Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 1 of 20

3 figure. The coldest place in the world. So I've been in Minnesota for the past 12 years. I currently work as the Director of Disability Resources and Services at Bethel University and I serve the entire Bethel community for people with disabilities - not just students, but employees as well. Bethel has about 6,500 students in all, and four different schools. But, in addition to doing what I do at Bethel, I'm also the proud parent of two boys that are on the Autism spectrum. My eldest son who is 18 has just transitioned into high school - sorry, into higher education. I'm currently doing my doctorate. So, I just completed my critical lit review and in the process now of doing my dissertation, which is really focusing on transitions for students on the Autism spectrum. From transitioning from high school to college, but not just that, but what happens after college? Particularly because the data has been showing that about 85 percent of students on the spectrum here in the U.S., they are unemployed or under-employed. So, that has been my focus, but I've also been doing a lot of work in the Caribbean, really working with families about just addressing the needs of their children on the spectrum and what that means. And getting access to education. So, I'm very glad to be here. Natalie: Jubin Varghese: Allen Yeh: Thanks, Natalie. Said a mouthful. Sorry. Jubin. Hi, I'm Jubin and I'm from India. I work with an organization called the Emmanuel Hospital Association. We're a group of about 22 rural mission hospitals. Of the different things that the organization is involved, they're also involved in the disability ministry, and we've been walking alongside families for the last about 13 years. And I'm involved with the program. Thanks, Jubin. Allen. My name is Allen Yeh. I'm a professor of Missions and Inter-cultural Studies at Biola University. I'm the academic of the group, I suppose. They're practitioners and they have wonderful field experience. So, I teach Missions Theology, Missions History and I hope to bring some of those insights into this panel. Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 2 of 20

4 Thanks, Allen. So, a question to start us with- and feel free to answer, whoever wants to go first. We'd love to have a conversation, and we'll have some time for questions. So, if you think of one as we are talking, write it down and we'll have a chance to ask that at the end. So, I sketched a little bit some of the change in the understanding of global Christianity. There's a shift in gravity. The vibrancy and activity seems to be happening oftentimes outside North America, which is not to say that Christianity is dead, but just that some of the center of gravity and activity is happening elsewhere. So, my question is, What does that mean, when we think about disability ministry? We ve heard lots of stories about people who are involved disability ministry around the globe, but what does this shift in the center of gravity for global Christianity mean for disability ministry in general? From your perspective, or from a crosscultural sense, as you see fit. Natalie: Natalie: I would like to start, if that's okay. Please. A couple of things really come to mind. For one, I think the impact of technology basically levels the playing field for people with disabilities, particularly in developing countries. I think mostly about- maybe those who are non-verbal or things like thathave access now, to hear about the gospel, they know about what Facebook is like, a lot of social media stuff. But the social media is giving them an opportunity to connect with others. Connect with people who are like them, who are from different parts of the world. That is an amazing opportunity that we can spread the gospel that way. So, it's not a matter of what you look like, what you sound like, it's really a matter of sharing the gospel and sharing your life and your story. So, that's why I think that with how Christianity is really evolving, it's not a matter of walking many distances to go see a preacher to lay hands on you. It's about sharing the love of Christ and sharing it with those that are willing to hear. Allen: Yeah, with this shift of the center of gravity of Christianity to the two-thirds world, namely Africa, Asia, Latin America, one of the things that has really changed is the de-coupling of Christianity from power and wealth. I think for so long when Christianity was ensconced in the West that it was synonymous with power and wealth. Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 3 of 20

5 If you look at the Bible, that's not how the early church was, right? The early church was a persecuted minority that suffered a lot, and in some sense the fact that the majority of the Christians now live in some of the poorest parts of the world There are pros and cons to this, just as there are pros and cons to Christians holding onto most of the wealth. If we have most of the wealth, we can send out missionaries all over the world, et cetera. But with Christianity being centered in some of the poorest places on earth, I think we're seeing a restoration of the authentic fabric of early Christianity, right? When Christianity was for the meek, the humble, the poor, those who hunger and thirst... I think there is something really great about seeing that kind of authenticity and listening to the voices of those who suffer, but suffer in Christ's name. Jesus Himself humbled Himself and became nothing and because of that He was exalted to the highest place. Often with poverty, disability a lot of times those two things go hand-in-hand. Especially in the West, if we have too readily available answers such as secular medicine to address these things, sometimes, I think, Well, where is the role of faith in terms of addressing the disabled? I actually think there's signs of hopefulness in seeing Christianity now having it's center of gravity in the two-thirds world. Especially with ramifications with the disabled. Actually, there was a conversation happening yesterday here in the same room and we were talking about suffering. Somebody was sitting on the table here and she ended up saying about how in most other parts of the world - now, I don't know America very well, but other than what's on television - but what she had to say was about how suffering is so much a part of the culture, she's talking about Kenya I think... But suffering is so much a part of the culture that you don't think twice about it. You're not, 'Oh, this person is suffering.' It's just, it is. So perhaps, like you were saying, it's a good thing to be reminded that suffering is a refining process for all of us, and not to be surprised by suffering really. It comes along with the I don't know if you call it negative- I guess I can call it negative because I'm probably going to talk about my culture here. But what happens is in the church in India, for example, or any places where you can see it happen, is what's in the culture sort of comes into the church. So, while suffering is an accepted fact, there is a resigned acceptance to suffering. The entire concept of it's your fate and fate can be, you call [inaudible], which is what the Hindus would call. Or you say, 'inshallah,' as the Muslims would call it. But it just basically means, it's fatalism, there's nothing you can do about it. The same Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 4 of 20

6 thing then comes into the Church and similar conversation then happens in the churches, too. Oh, what can we do? There's nothing that can be done. So, when we talk about Christianity in the majority world, as you call it, I think what we need to recognize is most of us who've come from other faiths, I mean have come to the faith from whatever else we believed in. We also bring our baggages in. I'm just going to talk about a lot of things, I don't have... I mean, simply because there's that one phrase in which we in India have been talking about quite about is, One ring to rule them all, yeah? We talk about how as Indians we don't really know who we are, because you can be a South Indian, North Indian, you can have your different castes, you can be speaking different languages. You have different identities, but in all of it, or through all of it, there's that one identity that supersedes, that rules all over all the types, our identity in Christ. But, while we talk about it, we may not necessarily practice it in the Church. While the Western world or Western definition of Christianity is there, our part of the world, the way we define Christianity is also determined by our backgrounds as well. So, we bring that baggage in when we sit at the table and talk with each other. Natalie: Can I add to that too? One of the other things that I have been wrestling with is what of those pieces of our heritage or our backgrounds or our religion do we still acknowledge that there is God and there is Christ? In my journey of education there have been periods of time, where I question, why do I believe this? And why do Muslims believe this? And why do Hindus believe this? And what it really boils down to is, it just helps me to appreciate my faith journey, my walk in Christ. The reason why I do that is because I am from that context: that suffering is okay, particularly if you're a Christian. You're suffering as Christ suffered, so you shouldn't expect much. I think that that is the mindset that a lot of Christians, particularly they see people with disabilities carrying, that is their cross they have to carry for Christ. Or that is the suffering that they need to do. So this, although it is something that they read about, it's something that is practiced as well. This new transformation is saying, Wait a minute. That's not necessarily true. We re learning from each other and also learning from the Western world as well. If I could pick up that, oftentimes... It's my privilege to help oversee our international education and training at Joni and Friends and I've had a chance to spend some time in different contexts talking about people with disabilities. Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 5 of 20

7 One of the interesting things to me is that every place I've been, in what we'd call the majority of the developing world, one of the most significant challenges that people with disabilities present to the church- oftentimes because of the surrounding culture- is this idea that's prevalent and quite popular, prosperity theology. That what we mean when we talk about the gospel is: God wants you to be materially and physically blessed. You want to be wealthy. You want to have good health. You want to have good family. There's this kind of material tinge or understanding of blessing. Clearly, that's present in the Old Testament, but it's sometimes hard to square that kind of popular or superficial understanding of prosperity or health and wealth gospel with much of the New Testament, or arguably with the Old Testament as well. So, let me summarize that, and then put the question to each of the panelists. In my experience- and I'd love to hear if you guys have similar- oftentimes people with disabilities present a significant challenge to that understanding of the gospel as, God wants to bless you materially. Well, we look at a person with a disability and we think, I don't understand how God's blessing you. I mean that seems to present a challenge. Have you had similar experiences? Or is that just from me? Okay. I'll go. Definitely similar experiences, because it's difficult to explain away disability using prosperity gospel, so to speak, for sure. I think it's also because the opposite of that is, if God only blesses and there's no suffering, then if you have a disability then you have sinned and it's the consequence of sin. That's the usual explanation of how it's given. There is no other way to explain disability otherwise in the way the system exists. Most of them would then be, other than the fact that you feel guilty that you have a child with a disability, because you have sinned or your husband sinned or whatever. The other thing is also the shame associated with having a disability. Because then the child is a visible proof of your sin and to live with that in the community, that's much more difficult. So then the Church... When someone with the disability comes to the church, the pastor need not really know how to engage with the family. The engagement would begin with praying for healing, and when healing does not happen, it means you don't have enough faith, which is why healing is not happening. Then they'll call in Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 6 of 20

8 the bigger preacher, somebody who has a healing ministry, to come and pray for you. It's just that cycle of it, and it means if there's not healing, it means there's something wrong with you, which is why the healing hasn't happened. Allen: I think in the early Church, you look at some of the marks of the church in Acts chapter 2 and- along with prayer, fellowship, meetings together regularly, sharing everything in common, the Word- there s also signs and wonders and when we look at that sometimes there's different schools of thought with regard to that. Some people are very opposed, other people think that those should still be very much expressed, even to the point where if those are not expressed, then you're not really of the Spirit. I am, by no means, a cessationist. I do believe God still works in miracles and healings and those types of things, prophesy and tongues, today. But, I also look at the trajectory of the book of Acts, and if you look by the end of Acts, the signs and wonders pretty much fade. I think part of the reason for that is similar to what we see in the gospels, which is that when people are just drawn to Jesus because of his miracles, after a while, Jesus says, 'You pretty much only come to me because of these things.' And he's like, 'I see straight through that.' And after a while he's like, 'No more sign will be given you except for the sign of Jonah,' which is his death and resurrection. So, signs and wonders are good and I think those are helpful as an entree into the faith, but if we stick those then we remain with milk and not meat. I think that, people who rely on those things only, to the exclusion of all others and that's their primary entree, then they're not growing and maturing truly in the faith. So, I see this as a biblical example both in the gospel and in the book of Acts. So, certainly God can work in miracles but I think what we're talking about in the earlier question is learning to live with suffering is actually much more Christ-like, I think. I heard a Kenyan one time say, he said, 'The difference between Americans and Africans is that Americans try to solve every problem. And Africans we just learn to live with them.' I think that Paul even said he has a thorn in his side and he asked for it to be taken away but it would not be. And we don't know what that is, but nonetheless, there was something that reminded him daily of his weakness and I think that is a good thing. Natalie: One of the things that I think a lot about is what this prosperity really means. We Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 7 of 20

9 have this concept that prosperity means having wealth and having big houses, big cars. But there are many people who are prosperous living on low-income or many, many people with disabilities who have so much faith... Even with that little video we saw today... I mean, it just blew me away of the amount of joy that can come from that person. So we have in our mind what prosperity is, what joy is, what having it all is all about, and sometimes it takes people with disabilities to show us, who may be people considered to be 'normal', what true faith and true prosperity is because it's through that suffering that you learn to appreciate the blessings that you have. As being a parent of two boys on the Autism spectrum, it's been a tough journey, but I say every day, if I hadn't gone through that journey that I wouldn't have learned to appreciate the beauties of my boys and I wouldn't be able to do the work that I do for students at my university. So, it's not so much about our view of what prosperity is, it's an opportunity to learn. So one of the things that I do a lot with my students is that they come with this downcast, I am less than a person because I have a disability, because that's what they hear. And growing up in a developing country, the disabilities are more visual, you can see them, but here in the U.S., predominantly in the schools that I work with, they're hidden. There is still that struggle and internally, these students they do struggle and think that I'm less than. We talk about, you're not less than, you're just different and there are so many beauties and things that you are able to accomplish. So, instead of identifying all the things I can't do, what are the things you're great at? So those are the things that we teach. That's the area of prosperity. Those that are great artists or whatever that is. And that's the true prosperity to me and so that's the message that needs to be displayed more as opposed to the things that are superficial that can be here today and gone tomorrow. Pick up on one comment that you made just right there, Natalie, that I think illustrates one of the tensions. Which is so often... So all of us, we inhabit our own culture and it's often, we inhabit multiple cultures, and there's no form of Christianity that is absent of any culture. We all bring different perspectives and different contexts and there's value and sometimes not so good to all those understandings. Oftentimes, as we're talking about this changing center of gravity in global Christianity, people talk about- Well, the West still has a contribution to make, but Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 8 of 20

10 maybe it's in terms of theology or education or this great resource of cognitive understanding of Christianity. There's also a risk that we might import certain cultural understandings that we've inherited. So I think about what you just said, in developing countries oftentimes you can see people with disabilities much more obviously but here, we've kind of privatized that. We have medicalized it in a way that we'd prefer not to see it. So, is there... How do we talk about that risk if there's still a role for the West to be playing whether it's theological, education, or some other aspect because the West isn't sending as many missionaries anymore. South Korea is sending more than come out of North America, for a long time. So it's no longer the sending center of gravity but maybe there's a role to play in terms of knowledge. How do we avoid bringing all of our cultural conceptions, particularly when it comes to disability, so we're actually in a position of learning from our brothers and sisters in that developing world? Does that make sense as a question? Natalie: Yeah, and I would love to answer that because one of the things that I realize all of the time... It's actually a question I asked Joni when she came to visit us at Bethel... Is because sometimes there was this concept that because a people are coming from America to a developing country that they bring the resources, yes, they bring staff and manpower, yes, but then they go and it's a matter of building capacity of the people that are there. So, it's not coming and bringing all the customs and the rituals or whatever, but they need to incorporate what the people know as their truth, their belief system, what does that mean, what does that look like? Because education in Antigua for people with disabilities is going to look a whole lot different to that same sort of education in the U.S. So, does that it mean that this way in the Caribbean is the wrong way? Of course not. It's just a matter of utilizing what you have. And so, when that message is being brought, the education that you teach those people who are living there and are fighting in their trenches and working with these families, that you empower them and empower those people with disabilities to be the ones that are spreading the news. It's not people coming from the West and saying, This is the gospel, or whatever. It's empowering those who are in those countries to do that. So, what does that look like? Is that education for those who are going to be Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 9 of 20

11 teachers? Is that financial support? What does that look like? So empowering others that are in that country. I guess I want to start by saying that it's all about relationship-building really. It's about... It doesn't matter which part of the world you're from, when two people sit together across a table, you're talking about - where you are from, what do you do - and so what happens is automatically questions come as to why do you do that or... Why do you say that or... Is that true for your country? Those kind of conversations help reveal a lot more than walking in with an assumption saying, 'Oh this country's culture probably states it this way.' So, if you're talking about what can the West, for example, bring across to the rest of the world or the other way around or whatever, I think it starts with just sitting across the table and getting to know one another. Realizing where we come from so, basically also means... I think the most important word that comes across as being vulnerable. Because when you're sitting across the table not necessarily, saying, 'Okay, I have this expertise I'm bringing to you or I have these resources I'm bringing to you.' But when you're sitting across a table saying, 'Let's have a conversation.' You're being vulnerable to a place where the person sitting across might turn around and say, 'That doesn't make any sense. Why do you guys do it this way?' You know, and to be ready to face the same question the other way around... I mean there are so many times people come to India, for example, and say, 'Why do you guys drive this way? You know, how come more of you aren't dying by the way your drive?' You know, that sort of thing. And we're like, 'It makes perfect sense to us.' You know, so people honk, they blow their horn and you're like, 'That's so rude. Why do they do that?' I'm like, 'Oh no, that's just saying hello to somebody. You know, like your friend drives by you're going beep-beep-beep, saying "Hi, I'm here!"' And it's just great when you have conversations like that because suddenly you're in the same place of vulnerability. And I think that's a great place to be at when we are looking at walking together. Then whatever comes after that, whatever comes from that, there will be a greater sensitivity. We often talk about in our organization and say, 'If you are ministering, if you are in a place of being involved in lives of others. If both your lives aren't transformed as a result of that relationship, something's wrong.' If we are at a table and having this conversation, if both of us walk away from the table saying, 'I've been blessed because of having been there,' I think that's worth it. Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 10 of 20

12 I guess those conversations of vulnerability, where we talk about here's what we bring to the table, here's what you bring to the table, how can we work together with it. So it could be resources... Okay, quickly, just one more example. This happened quite recently. So last year we had a conference in India and after that we had the Beyond Suffering curriculum that Ben did with us, yeah? So as part of the curriculum, one of the things we talk about is first steps of inclusion. If I were to ask generally, the crowd... Are you guys happy to answer questions if I ask you? Okay. So, if somebody were to ask you if you wanted to include people in your church, what would you do? What would be the first things you would do? Raise a hand and somebody will get you on mike. First steps for inclusion. What's the first thing you would do in your church if you had to include people with disability? Just shout it out, I'm sure we can hear you. You should invite them. Invite them. Excellent. Then what would you do? Excellent. Engage the parents. Okay. Go pick them up. Excellent. Then? Feed them. Feed them, oh... Feed them? Feed them. Food. Okay. Oh, oh, all right. Okay. Excellent. Talk to the congregation. Encourage them. Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 11 of 20

13 Encourage them. Yes. Excellent, pray. All right. Okay, make sure they can get into the church. Excellent. Pray for them. Now, interestingly in the conversation there we talked about other things as well, but some of the things that stayed on with the pastors because we spoke to them later was about, they talked about ramps. Making the building accessible for people with disabilities to come in. We talked about preaching and everything that happens in the church to make it accessible for people with disabilities. And some of those pastors have house churches, so they don't have a church building. So they rent a place where they hold church meetings and so they walked up later and they were like, 'But we rent a place, how do we make that place accessible. We usually don't have electricity. So how on earth are we going to have multi-media happening when there's not electricity. And we're a group of maybe 20 people, how do we make that accessible?' But I thought it was a great conversation to have. Because suddenly you're like, 'Okay, let's bring ideas.' So, what can the church do now? Somebody said, 'Pick them up.' That'd be great but in India where in some of our villages where our roads don't really work and people don't have wheelchairs... Or if they have wheelchairs you can't get them out onto the road... Picking up... And most people don't have a car. At least in the villages, they don't have a car. So, picking them up is not the easiest thing to do. So then suddenly you're having a conversation about what else or how will the church be engaged as the first steps to inclusion. And that conversation is important and this was just an example for it, but how Beyond Suffering helped us have that conversation was quite interesting as well. Sorry, I went on too long. Allen: Missions for so long has been from the West to the rest. And now, from everyone to everywhere. That doesn't mean that we all have an equal place at the table. What ends up happening is the majority of Christians are now living in Africa, Asia, and Latin America. The West still has the majority of the money and has the books and the publishing and the power and the influence. It's kind of like the cities, if you look at the biggest cities in the world, of the top 20 cities in the world in terms of population - only two are in the West, New York and L.A. - the other 18 are all in Africa, Asia, or Latin America. But you don't hear about them as much, even though they have the numbers, they don't have the influence of New York or L.A. or maybe London or Paris, which are quite small actually in terms of population. Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 12 of 20

14 So how do we give equal voice to every people group, every continent? So there's two ways of going about this, I think, you can either have people from the majority world come to the West, or you can have the West go to the majority world. I think both work, but one of the encouraging things that I've seen is John Stott, who recently passed away, he had a scholarship that he set up called the Langham Scholarship with his foundation. What he would do is take very promising majority world scholars and bring them to the West to be trained and get their Ph.D. here in order to influence the world that way. I just feel like there is this disproportion between the numbers and the influence. We may say the majority world has the majority of the population but that does not mean they have an equal voice at the table. I think the willingness to listen but also to gain accessibility for people in the two-thirds world to have a voice... I don't know... If somehow, you are able to through your organization or your church or something to be able to invite people from two-thirds world or from a disabilities ministries who... And often, we focus so much on ethnic diversity and the disabled are often the last to be recognized, right? So, we'll think, Oh we did the ethnic diversity bit and therefore we're good, right? Or they might throw in a few other forms of diversity, even socio-economic diversity, then the disabled really get marginalized even among those groups. Right? I think if you have a platform from which you can speak and to invite somebody who maybe doesn't have a voice but has something significant to say and have them piggyback on your platform, I think that would be great. Also, there's this concept in sociology called intersectionality, so everybody is a mixture of different things - whether your gender, your class, your race, and your health, or whatever it may be. All of us are a mix of powerless and powerful in some ways, right? Instead of always claiming the weak side of what we are able to... Of our identity, but to leverage the strong side of our identity on behalf of those who are perhaps less powerful than us. For example, one of the things that I do, even though I am an ethnic minority, I also recognize that I am a male. I always try to speak up on behalf of females, especially in the academy. There are... The proportion of male professors to female professors is very skewed. There's so many more male professors and so I always try to encourage my female students to go get a Ph.D. and to try to make some inroads in the academy. In the same way, any of us who have any sort of power or influence in Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 13 of 20

15 anything, we should speak up on behalf of those who have less of a voice and I think that's what God calls us to use our power for, not for ourselves. That's a great comment, Allen. Let me phrase that as a question to each of us and then we'll open it up to the audience for some questions and hopefully some good answers from the panel. Clearly, there's a role for the West to play, whether it's in terms of influence, resources, educational... There's clearly something, even if it's not sending people and we want that to be a dialogue, as Jubin mentioned, so it's not one-way communication. What do you think is... So we'll narrow it down, 'cause this can be an overwhelming question. When it comes to disability ministry, what do you think is the role of the West in the church as we send, whether it's resources or people or influence, what is a valuable contribution the West has to contribute to the majority world to our brothers and sisters in Christ around the global when it comes to people affected by disabilities in the church? You can focus on one thing that's okay, or if you come up with a long list, Jubin, that's all right as well. Natalie: I think one of the things that we need to... First of all, I really appreciate what you're talking about... Is really appreciating disability as one of the minority groups. So one of the things that I've been doing at Bethel is... There's a lot of talk about diversity and inclusion and it's always about race and gender and culture and all of those things. But it's changing that conversation to include people with disabilities. Because I work a lot with the ADA and the mandates of the... The ADA is the Americans with Disabilities Act, which basically allows students with disabilities to have certain accommodations or whatever. Because I have to learn that and know the different laws or whatever, I also realize that there are no specific guidelines for churches that they have to ensure that people with disabilities have access. That's really strange to me. But the thing is... I think when the laws were being established, they just thought that this was common sense and common knowledge and they shouldn't have to mandate the church to make teaching the gospel and being in the church something that is accessible to all. But that is the struggle that we find, and as a parent, and as students that I work with, and just even in my experience for this past years is that, that's where the challenge begins. It begins here. It's not all always about going to the global south or Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 14 of 20

16 whatever because a lot of Christians and a lot of churches here in the U.S., there is little accessibility, there is People with disabilities are pretty much isolated. They don't get the support that they need. One of the things I tell my students, 'I can advocate for you as much as I'm able to. As much breath as I have. But you're going to have the biggest voice. You're going to have a bigger voice than me.' So, it is to allow those students or individuals to have the access that they need because everybody brings their own culture, their own personal things that they bring and they all have a call. We all have a call on our lives. So utilizing these individuals who have a call to maybe be a missionary or whatever to do the things that we who are maybe not having disabilities or who are the advocates, we do all the work. I feel like more can be done by utilizing the people who are experiencing this and the people who have to suffer and who has to struggle. Because it touches others when they learn from your experience. And the narratives that we bring to the table and they bring to the table has a much richer discussion about what faith is, what journey is, what Christ is, what Christ's love is all about, and so that's why I think it's really important for us to do that. So about what the West can bring across to us. I guess... I'm going to be speaking very from the feeling there, from the place of work that we come from. I guess one of the main things that often a whole lot of us who work in the places that we do... We feel often that we are alone in what we are doing. So we don't have so many disabilities organizations or support groups as perhaps the West has. In those places when you're working some rural village where you've been trying for the last... I don't know... For us, it's been 14 years, we've been trying to work with families, get people to change the way they look at life. It can get discouraging. Also, on the other hand, perhaps we recognize that disability ministry is part of our presence there in the community and when we do so we're actually... Our fight is not against flesh and blood but against the powers of darkness. We're quite aware of it when we're in the communities. So, I think one of the things that we ask for whenever we are with groups of people is for prayer. Sometimes I wonder if we realize the power... I wonder if we have started taking it for granted or downplaying the power and significance of prayer when it comes to those who are in the front line. Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 15 of 20

17 So for... I mean, from my point of view to all of you who are here, would be that remember those who are in the front line. It's not an easy place to be. It's often quite costly to be up there in the front. So to know you're not in it alone, it makes a lot of difference. I guess that's the first thing. The other thing... Ben did say I could come up with a list right? The other thing was... At least our part of the world, we're not very good with research, we might actually have materials, we might actually have stuff out there but we don't have the time often nor do we have the educational background to be able to put things together that can get published or that can come out as information for others that we can learn from each other. That's the other thing that perhaps we can be helped with because we don't think academically very well. The other thing I was thinking of was a lot of technology that's used here in the West can be adapted to be used. It will need to be adapted. But can be adapted to be used in our part of the world as well. But the expense of it is something that we are unable to often cough up. So the support there makes also a lot of difference. Especially in terms of looking at it to be adapted in our part of the world. Only three. Allen: Great. For now. Great. Thanks, Jubin. Yeah. I want to piggyback on what Jubin said and it's absolutely true that money is a big part of it. Because before we did frontier missions, which is the West to the rest. Right? The West bringing evangelism to places that had never heard, but most of the world has already heard because like I said, most of the Christians are there in Africa, Asia, and Latin America. So, they don't need more evangelism, look they can... Their own people can evangelize better than we can and they know the language and the culture. But we're an era of facilitation. We're in the era of partnership. And I think... But part of that is also sharing our resources such as finances. The technology piece as well. I heard a Sri Lankan theologian say one time, he said, 'You know, I think the West has to stop thinking of us just as superstitious people.' He says, 'All the dissertations that have been written about south Asia are all about the superstitious religious practices and all this stuff and the spiritual world.' And he says, 'If you realized that Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 16 of 20

18 China and India produce more Ph.D.s in science and engineering than all of the West combined.' He says... That is a reality of that world today. It's kind of this both/and. I think another thing that the West can contribute though... It's sometimes seen as a detriment, but I think it can be harvested as a boon, is it's organizational approach and programmatic approach to things. People often talk about relational-focused cultures versus goal-oriented cultures. In the non-western world it often seems more relational and in the Western world seems more goal oriented. And yeah, sure goal-orientedness can be bad if you see everyone as just a program. But sometimes organization is absolutely needed, especially in situations when there's so much to manage. So, if management and organizational skills and programs and structures can actually be implemented in some of the parts of the world that really need that as a lattice, as a framework. Then by all means, I think that is a great thing to contribute. As long as there is mutual learning and the relational learning going the other way as well. They call these primary cultures and secondary cultures in history. Yeah... So the intersection of the two is the best place to be. Natalie: Natalie: Absolutely. And I had one more. Of course. So, what I was going around and around to say is, a lot of times I feel like I'm the missionary as opposed to the U.S. coming to the Caribbean islands. But when I talk about my relationship with students I think about the many lives that when a student graduates and moves on into God's purpose, the amount of influence, the things that God has them do. So my little mustard seed that I plant with that one student when they... And we do have quite a few international students at Bethel... When they go back to their countries, they are taking with them that knowledge so they can do the research. So they are providing. They are connecting with resources and all of those things. So they are bringing back things to their country that I wouldn't be able to do. I just wanted to also to add the importance of the individuals themselves because we are our resource too. Speaking of individuals, we have a couple minutes for some of you to ask a question Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 17 of 20

19 or two. If you don't get a chance, don't worry, the panel will be around and as we make our way off to dinner, feel free to catch any one of us and ask your question. But for the last five minutes, if there's any question, raise your hand, we'll get a mike to you. Chip, in front. Chip: Hi. I'm Chip Kingery and my wife and I have had the privilege of having a ministry for about Almost 30 years. One of the questions that we continue to struggle with is this idea that funding comes from the West, resourcing comes from the West. And I believe that we've really bought into that... That it is something that a foreigner brings into a country. And I'm just wondering how we can get out of that mentality because that dependency model continues in so much of the ministries. If the doors in India shut, it would be frightening to see what was left with foreign funds funding all of that. I don't mean to be negative, I just think we really need to ask that question. We're able to raise almost 75 percent of our funding needed for our disability ministry in India and we remember the days when we first went in, people said, 'No, no, no. They're so poor. They cannot afford to do that.' We found that wrong and it takes a lot of energy, but I guess that's one of the questions we would like to address or have other people address. 'Cause I think it's a mentality that we've gotten sucked into and we've got to get out of that because the friends with whom we bring the gospel to, have to have ownership in that and that means financial ownership to. Allen: Can I speak into this? Yeah, so you're absolutely right. I think that the West can provide seed money, to launch things. But it cannot be the long-term solution. You might have heard of the Three Self Church, it's often referred to as the Chinese governmental church, but it actually has it's origins far before that in the 18th century with Henry Venn of the Church Missionary Society. And he came up with the Three Self, he said, churches in the two-thirds world ought to be self-supporting, self-propagating, and self-governing. And now, we add a fourth one, self-theologizing. Self-supporting is definitely one of those and that is a goal, long-term. The other thing is, not just for the churches themselves, but for missionaries. If missionaries are being funded solely from the West, I think, you look at the biblical model, the apostle Paul did tent-making. Certainly he did get some support from the churches but he also said I do not want to be burden on any of you and he says I'm going to... Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 18 of 20

20 He's going to generate his own income, by doing that not only is he not a burden on the churches but he's incarnational by being one with the people in terms of living with them, working with them, having the same salary as them. I do think a lot of our funding models do need to change. I absolutely agree with you, the dependency needs to stop. Natalie: Yeah. And I completely agree as well because when we are engaging in ministry, we not only have to think about the initial money - you said, the seed money - but it has to be sustainable. And so, going always to the West to find the resource, it actually is a West project, so it won't be... There wouldn't be that identity that this belongs to us, unless there's an investment. Like I said before, it might not be grandiose as far as the resources are but there are wealthy people in every country. If they are... It's a matter of knowing your sphere of influence, knowing the people that you need to be connected to, that have those resources, and when it boils down to it, the greatest advocates are their families that are living this life every day. Or the teachers, or people that are down in the trenches, they are the ones who are going to be the biggest advocates. Sometimes, I think God has a sense of humor, in that sometimes we have a president or somebody who is in politics or government who actually has a child or a family member with a disability and all of the sudden they become your greatest buddy, right? So to tap into those opportunities. If you get people to be passionate about the things you're passionate about and utilizing those resources that are internal. And then having people build that capacity of those individuals then it's something that's sustainable. One of the things that we encounter... 'Cause we did a hearing screening in several Caribbean countries. And the first thing they ask is, 'Why are you coming to our country? What are you bringing here? What resource are you doing? What are you going to say about us?' And so, it is that national pride about okay, what is the message that you're going to take back to the U.S.? So they want to know what can we do, what is our role in this? We're not just... We don't expect you to come and give us. And I know a lot of times that's the mentality is... And we get sucked into that, okay you're going to bring something for us but then we sit back. And so, I always hear a parable that my mom talked to me about and it says, 'You can teach somebody... Somebody who's hungry, you can give him a fish today. But tomorrow they're going to need a fish. But if you teach them how to fish, then they're fed for life.' And so that is the goal, is to teach people how to fish. Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 19 of 20

21 Jubin, last word? If they want to fish. I just want to say, the problem with funding or thinking about funds is we automatically move into a project mode. So everything then becomes a project that you're working with or working for. And that I think defeats the purpose of our involvement with lives in the first place. So, our dream for what we are doing is basically to say, there shouldn't be any projects or NGOs happening any more. The ideal situation would be where the church reaches out to people in its community. Just neighbors. We did it earlier, as a culture we've done it earlier, we looked after our sick and our elderly and those with disabilities. But then we went on to a model where okay, if you are elderly you go into this place, if you are a disability you go into that place, mental health issues you go into this place. But that's not how we started, we started as communities caring for each other with whatever resources that we had. Not probably the best care you could have given but people would still belonged. Today we are talking about barrier not just to inclusion but barriers to belonging. At least people belonged and I think the moment we've become funding focused, we've become projects. And as long as there are projects, we'll always be looking for funding one way or the other. But the idea is to move away from projects and programs to lifestyle, community-approach to living. I think that's one way to balance it up, perhaps. Joni: Thanks, Jubin. Would you join me in thanking our panel for their contributions? Hi, I'm Joni Eareckson Tada and thank you for listening to this audio resource from the Global Access Association, sponsored by Joni and Friends. To find more disability resources and to connect with others involved in disability ministry around the globe, go to and sign up for a free membership today. Rhodes, Varghese, Yeh & Beazer Page 20 of 20