The Axe Files - Ep. 232: Stephanie Schriock

Transcription

1 The Axe Files - Ep. 232: Stephanie Schriock Released April 9, 2018 Axelrod: [00:00:00] Stephanie Shriock it's good to be with you. Good to see you again. Thank you. You know you don't come from a particularly political family. Schriock: [00:00:11] No I don't. Axelrod: [00:00:11] Tell me Tell me about your folks. Schriock: [00:00:13] It's great. Well you know I grew up in Butte, Montana parents of well of good Midwesterners. My dad's born and raised in this little town called Mountain Lake Minnesota. My mom was from Mason City Iowa. And you know anything about Minnesota and Iowa they hate each other so they overlook their differences and got married. And right on the border right on the border right. And then they moved moved out to Butte Montana where I was raised. And the funny thing about about the whole family is that we never talk politics now. I I was very active. I was just that I was that kid. I just wanted to change everything I ran for student government all the several times several times Axelrod: [00:00:59] Not successfully. So you ran for student government president. Schriock: [00:01:05] I did. I tried to be class president a few times. And I just was not convincing to my classmates. I just it didn't work. Did you did you did you win ultimately. Well I figured something out was one of my first most important lessons of campaigning. I realized if I ran for student body president my junior year. The electorate changed and it wasn't just my class but the freshmen and sophomores were going to vote too and so then I focus my entire campaign to the freshman and sophomore class. Axelrod: [00:01:40] Expanding the electorate. Schriock: [00:01:43] Really that expanding the electorate deal is important. I learned my lesson the other lesson I learned as I got the endorsement of one of the younger sisters of one of my opponents. Axelrod: [00:01:55] Oh Schriock: [00:01:56] Oh yeah. There's one thing being a sister that I learned about the sisterhood and that was that and I did I did become the Butte high school student body president my senior year. So that's I love that stuff. I wanted to do that. You know my parents raised me to you know do anything I wanted to do. They really I'm lucky that way. I get that there wasn't any sense of like there's any doors close to you. And as a young woman I don't think I ever thought about the fact of how lucky I was to have parents like that. So I think that was a big you know just a big part of it. And I was a type-a kid and I just wanted to do a little bit of everything. You know my mother was a Democrat but my mom and I were so certain that my dad who is a he's a sportsman he hunts and fishes he's a gun owner he owns quite a few actually. Vietnam veteran yeah we just clearly was a Republican and so my mom inquired. No because my mother Midwesterners and my mom's like don't rock the boat here honey we're just not going to talk politics. That's great and I'm like OK. You know it was I was very dutiful and Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 1

2 and tell I went to college and I was I was dating a Republican at the time this was Mankato State Minnesota where I was in school and my Republican boyfriend walks up to my dad and says oh how did he put up with this liberal daughter of yours and my father says oh I was really proud of her. I said well dad that's really nice. Being a Republican and all. My dad says are you kidding? I have been a Democrat Axelrod: [00:03:45] All those years. Schriock: [00:03:47] Here's the here's the big one. He says it's your mother that's the Republican. We all came out of the Democratic closet we're like we're all Democrats and talk more about politics. Axelrod: [00:04:00] Let me ask you a question about your dad. And you mention his Vietnam veteran who was a sportsman and a hunter and all of that talk about that the gun issue because it's it's very much on people's minds now and I don't think we kind of talk past each other. I think I've told the story here before about Barack Obama when he was a state senator was having a debate with a guy from downstate on a gun issue and he said listen I understand that you grew up hunting your father grew up hunting. That's been passed down from generations and it's it's it's important to you and it's. But he said I come from a place where mothers sit by the window and worry about whether their kids are going to come back from school alive because there's so much gunplay on the streets you said. And he said there has to be a way to preserve your rights and your culture and all of your traditions and save these kids. And but we don't have those discussions like that. You know it's a very shrill discussion and it becomes more so as you see these massacres like the one we saw in June in Florida and then the one that just just as we speak just this week on YouTube. So but but but I want you to talk about it from the other direction first of all did you go hunting when you were a kid. Schriock: [00:05:28] I did it well I very proudly took my hunting safety course. I mean I can't tell you exactly who was sponsored by but it probably would not be surprised if it was not paid for and sponsored by the National Rifle Association because that's that's what they do all over the country. I took it at 11:00 because you could get your permit at 12. So you were ready to go hunting and. And then I went a couple of times. It was so cold and there was so much snow that was like I don't know when I went to mom like I don't I have to do this hunting thing is it OK if I get out of it. So that ended my head. I love the fish. I was much better at the fishing thing but I grew up in absolutely in a hunting household. And it wasn't that like I just didn't like to be that cold. Honestly that was the whole problem for me. We grew up eating game. You know I hardly ever had beef in the house ever. I mean we grew up eating venison and elk and ducks and pheasants and that was just that's who we were. And it was really good. And I know we still do I go I go home. My dad lives in Kansas now. And what's great is like the freezer still filled with that. But you're right we do. We do talk past each other in this. Axelrod: [00:06:46] You manage campaigns in places where this is. This was [crosstalk] Schriock: [00:06:53] It really is part of the culture. And you know I had a shotgun all through myself and a shotgun all through high school and you know my dad still has it at the house and I've lived outside of Washington D.C. for a while now so I have the shotgun so I never really thought growing up about it. It's just a different time to in the 70s and the 80s that you know everybody had guns growing up and everybody was respectful of those guns. You know that's Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 2

3 why we had to go take the hunters safety course. Were you sat down with dad and you were taught how to clean and put together and take care of like. And it's a real but it's a culture. But I think it's Montana right. This is a kind. Axelrod: [00:07:41] But it is still true. That's probably still true. Schriock: [00:07:44] You bet it is. Axelrod: [00:07:45] And so and Schriock: [00:07:46] I mean my nephew's gone through the process right now. Well he's going to he'll learn the same things I learned from from his dad. Axelrod: [00:07:54] And you read these polls and you see among gun owners there is there are there is a majority for universal background check Schriock: [00:08:03] Yes. And I think that's where we've got to get out of the extreme debate here which is not the only issue we have this and try to find some common ground and the background check piece of this seems completely sensible. I mean my father is not an NRA member. I can't speak to if he ever has been my uncle is. But they're very open to having some common sense laws put in place that that protect people with the background check being the easiest of those all. So why we can't come together on something as simple as a universal background check. I don't know where you can get messier along the way. I know they feel like it's a slippery slope is the argument right. [crosstalk] Axelrod: [00:08:58] How much of that is the NRA. I mean you know growing up I know you'd think of it as the voice for hunters and sportsmen. But it's but but it's also a big time lobbying group for the gun industry which doesn't want any restrictions that would impinge on their bottom line. And it's become sort of a rallying place for these folks who believe that we should be armed against the hegemony of an overweening government which is kind of crazy because there's no weapon you're going to buy even an AK 47 or an AR 15 or whatever that is going to stop stop a tanker or a plane. But there is that element of it but I don't think that's the majority of gun owners. Schriock: [00:09:56] And I would guess that it's not majority of members of the NRA. I mean you talked about it is the voice the National Rifle Association for so long as the voice of you know hunting and fishing and you know sort of that really sportsmen the hunting side not fishing out the English side of it. But the hunting side of it and a lot of folks that I'd run into in Montana when I was managing Jon Tester's race or even in Minnesota there are members because there's benefits to being a member of the NRA and you get access to you know investing in new equipment or you get a read information that makes you better at hunting and and so so much of it is that benefit if you separate that and say boy it's a ban it's a benefit to those folks. That's what they're looking for. To me that's an that's a good association. The lobbying power though and the an unwillingness to have any conversation that's unacceptable and that that is really where I think they've gone just because Axelrod: [00:11:08] I think we're also reached a tipping point where it's and you can see and I think the parkland kids get a lot of credit for this but you can see that in what happened in Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 3

4 Florida and some other legislatures what just happened in Vermont that it's just becoming untenable to hold the line and say we're not going to do anything and that's that seems like a increasingly difficult position. But you know as you say it's not just on guns there's so many issues on which we run to our corners and I think it's one of the problems we have in the country I would I think the president himself is deeply responsible in that he exploits these these divisions so expertly and with great panache. I don't know that he'd call it panache but with great enthusiasm but let's get back to. Schriock: [00:12:06] Very dangerous. Axelrod: [00:12:07] It is very dangerous Schriock: [00:12:10] It's you know outside I mean obviously I am a Democratic operative who cares deeply about the Democratic Party but you know what I care about the country more yeah. And that seems to be getting lost in. And this president has really really driven into these divides. And it's it is shaking us to the core and the Middle East where we haven't really seen. I think that's I think I surely haven't seen that. I will say that I have never seen anything like this. And as I travel around the country and we see particularly for Emily's List this wave of women who are coming into the political process for us it's women saying they want to run for office. But on the ground it's women marching and organizing and pulling their communities together. This is not the direction they want to go. They believe in community they believe in family they believe in bringing people together. And they're really really afraid that they're going to take action and that's what's so powerful. But this is what we need. We need 67 percent of the population to take action which can't be just 50. At this point we've got to go. This is a we've got to save our democracy. Axelrod: [00:13:27] I want to get to all of that. I don't want to I don't want to lose track of your own story. So I want to go back to Butte for a second. Tell me what Butte was like because it was. There was a there was labor activism in Butte when you were growing up and you must have been exposed to that Schriock: [00:13:46] Some folks are like well how did you end up being a Democrat when you know your parents weren't all that involved in politics and I say you got to understand I grew up in Butte, Montana. It's like you're stewed in a democratic, working class, labor pot like this. It's everywhere and you really did. Even if it wasn't said to you directly it was so understood that you were either with the company or you were with the worker. And that was it. And my parents even though they did not work Axelrod: [00:14:18] The big company was Atlantic Richfield. Schriock: [00:14:20] Yes which like Earl in the early 1900s is known as the Anaconda Copper Mining Company. And then of course got bought up by Richfield and just you know of course got bought by a number of entities. This is a copper mining town and it was so significant in the early 1900 a late 1900 early 1900s obviously way before my time. When you think of all the folks I always tell there used to be these phones that are attached to the wall in your house that you would pick up number. Some of us remember that some of you may not. There actually were phones in the house and all those phone lines that connected all those houses and all of the business all took copper and out east almost all that copper came out of Butte, Montana. Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 4

5 Like that's how big and powerful that copper mine was in Butte, Montana and the wars that happened between the Anaconda Copper Company and the unions and the organizing was historic. I mean there's entire union movements and rules that came out of the fights in the in the copper mines and Butte. They're all shaft mines back then and then in the early 50s it became a big open pit mine. Now it's a big Superfund site. We didn't do well on that front there. Axelrod: [00:15:49] So that's why there was a lot of labor unrest in the 80s. Schriock: [00:15:54] Yes yes. And I mean I remember when you know the workers went on strike once again. You know I mean this is tough life. Working in a mine at the time this was an open pit. They were driving these gigantic I mean you can envision it these gigantic dump trucks on these tiny little roads. It was so unsafe and they go driving down to the bottom of this pit and get the cop around and drive back and they're you know fighting for better working conditions better pay. And that year you know in the early 80s they went on strike and the strike went on for a long time. And you must have gone to school with a lot of children of mine workers who are either mine workers or fill in so many of those jobs in town are affiliated with the mine. And so all of a sudden you could feel everybody doing that. And I my my parents are like well we were we did the one thing we could do which is you know make some casseroles and bring them over to the union halls and just try to support the families because of course nobody was getting paid. This went on for over a half a year. That's a long strike. Axelrod: [00:17:01] And what did you take away from it. Schriock: [00:17:03] I want to say one last thing they closed that mine and then they busted the union and that's what I remember. I remember when they closed that mine. Now I also know they closed the mine because copper prices collapsed at the same time. But as a as a kid I saw that company knock out those families and there was that it had nowhere to go. And the town went from to about today. And it all started right there in front of me and I just really like you have to care about the working people. They have to have jobs. And if you can just knock it out that fast that is how powerful you know those companies can be. We've got to do something about it so that's where I come form. Axelrod: [00:17:50] You add to it you know what technology globalization is doing. Schriock: [00:17:53] Absolutely Axelrod: [00:17:54] There are. There's a lot of change going on and there's an opportunity for people who are well positioned and if you're not well positioned it's completely disruptive. You'd made a decision pretty quickly that you were going to pursue politics. I mean that was a conscious career choice of yours. Schriock: [00:18:14] It was it was and I always I always believed in and still do today believe in the power of good people getting elected and doing good things. And if you get the right people elected you can make some real change. Axelrod: [00:18:32] [crosstalk] The whole thing is premised on the notion that reigns in a democracy that there's real power in that Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 5

6 Schriock: [00:18:44] And look at and look at what happens when you do have good people in there. It's you know it gets lost because the coverage is so often the the mass of the big thing that they're trying to get done that everybody forgets to look at all of this. This is a thousand small things that get done every day everywhere including in Congress. And people forget that and we have to remind them as you know I've you know recruited a lot of candidates over the years and now of course a lot of women candidates. So the question is like I'm looking you think Dunham is going to sit there and get beat up. And I said you know it's just not true. And I tell the story if I may about working as Senator Jon Tester chief of staff yes which was such an honor. And Senator from from Montana I was his campaign manager. I I after all my years of politics I finally actually got to do a race in Montana in He won I became as chief of staff out of debt. He was doing. I mean he's a huge champion of veterans. I was and I believe still is the second highest per capita number of veterans in the country. Big important deal and he was doing a series of town halls and he ran into a veteran who said you're not going to believe this. I can't afford to get to the V.A. hospital at the time. There's only one in Montana and Montana is a big state because I can't afford the gas and I only get 11 cents a mile reimbursement and the senator called and he said Do you think this is true I'm like I can't be true. 11 cents a mile when he doesn't get you anywhere. And at that time I think that the federal level was forty six cents probably am I mean even for those and this is low. Axelrod: [00:20:32] For federal workers Schriock: [00:20:33] For federal workers right. Right. Thank you. And you know these are folks that had you know how to get there. Well we've got to change that. No this is not some big national bill that's going to be covered on CNN. Right. But he sat down he rolled up his sleeve he talked to a number of other colleagues he's like how do I get this done. And they're like well let's let's see if we can push it through and it took a little bit of time. But not only did he get it to 23 cents but I think he ultimately got it to the level of what a federal employee would get which is what our veterans deserve. Right. But he did that he made that change for every veteran in the country. Axelrod: [00:21:07] Right. Schriock: [00:21:08] Those are the things that we don't talk about Axelrod: [00:21:10] And they happen all the time. So there's the ability to do things for people individually. You know who just have problems and they need someone to help solve them. No. Look I'm not I'm not cynical about the value of serving in public office but I just know that it's a hard sell to some these days. Now we're going to get to the fact that there are a whole lot of people who are raising their hand right now and saying they want to but you you bounce around you did a number of campaigns at a very young age some as a finance director some as a manager. What tell me just what were the ones that stand out in your mind that were formative for you. Schriock: [00:22:00] I always feel like my journey every step of the way you feel like this to lead me to the next thing it's like it's just all tied together and they tell particularly up and coming you know young folks who want to do this might just keep going. The one thing I tell her is just say yes when the opportunity comes up if you can say yes don't give it it's like about just go back up your car and go or or move or do whatever. But I would say you know my first paying job a big Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 6

7 deal and campaigns. I got Bay was working for Mary Reider in Minnesota. She was running for Congress in Axelrod: [00:22:41] Gil Gutknecht Schriock: [00:22:42] It was against Gil Gutknecht. And I actually had convinced her that I should be her scheduler because I thought I'll learn everything about the campaign because everything has to go through a scheduler. Little did I know then that that is one of the hardest jobs. I didn't know that I know this now. I did not know what I was getting myself into. And I ended up not doing it that long because I showed up on the campaign. They just fired their finance director. And for every student who's done an internship here this one I had done an internship at a at a place in Washington D.C. That doesn't even exist anymore in their development department and they're doing fundraising sort of. I mean I didn't really do much fundraising at the time that that internship on my resume was enough for that candidate to say would you like to be my finance director. And I don't know what in the world I was thinking. But I learned that lesson which is just say Yeah absolutely and I said yes. And that was the beginning my fundraising career. I learned a ton and out of all ironies EMILY's List in 1996 sent out a finance adviser to Mary Reider to teach this kid Stephanie how to learn fundraising and how you build finance plans and how do you do. Call. And sure enough we got EMILY's List endorsement at the beginning of everything and then and then yes she did not win but I stuck with fundraising for a long time until I went to management. Axelrod: [00:24:24] I want to jump ahead in your in your in your life journey to And Howard Dean you are the finance director for the Howard Dean campaign. I know we get a lot of credit the folks who are involved with Barack Obama for doing innovative things. I would be the first to say that we so much of what we did was derivative of and built on what Howard Dean did and what you did especially as it relates to grassroots fundraising on online on the Internet which was really pioneered in that campaign as well as organizing on the Internet organizing mediums and so on. Schriock: [00:25:12] That's right. Axelrod: [00:25:12] Tell me about the whole Dean experience. Because I think that was a that for when you think about losing campaigns that actually had a impact on American politics. I think that one was one of the big ones. And you know I know my buddy Joe Trippi was in the middle of all that. So tell me about that experience. Schriock: [00:25:35] As I as I went and as I came out of that presidential campaign I asked our friends I'd known for a while like how long does it take to get over the loss of a presidential campaign. And they're like at least eight years. I laughed at them. That may be true. It's you know it was so the campaign itself was the most amazing crazy thrilling exciting exhausting painful. You just. Everything hurt. At the end of that campaign I've never felt as physically or emotionally exhausted than I did at the end of that campaign because it was so high so fast. I mean folks who may not remember so I came on so I came on that campaign in December of It was like one of the first ten employees I was that was that crazy meeting where he gave his to represent here to represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. Yes. It was either it was like late January early February of Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 7

8 Axelrod: [00:26:55] So right after you Schriock: [00:26:56] Right after I came in and it was like it caught so fast and I went you know I knew it was a stage in my career that I was I had been working at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee sort of on the establishment path to be honest just like our very establishment path and some folks on other presidential campaigns had talked to me about maybe joining them. There were there were a lot of establishment candidates that cycle and I was more inclined in the fall of that year to go manage. I always wanted to manage at some point. But two things happened to me why I sort of took that diversion to someone who was not seen as the establishment candidate. One was the Iraq war vote which I was very upset about. Now you've heard them of my Minnesota like I went to school in Minnesota. I love Paul Wellstone and I was so proud of Senator Wellstone and he voted. You know he voted against that war. And I just was so angry at so many of our Democrats at that moment. And I was like I don't think I can do this anymore get beyond this. You know I was like my you know my 20s you know we are really can't do this anymore and then we lost Paul Wellstone in a plane crash and the combination of that for me was so devastating. I had to go to Vermont. Axelrod: [00:28:24] I think that that was a real watershed event for a lot of people because there was a sense that a lot of Democrats cast that vote because they felt that the political winds were blowing that way and they had to had to do it. And and I think that kind of exposed something about politics that I especially young people was deeply disturbing because I think young people want to believe that you're going to go there and you're going to do what you think is right. And here you know clearly there were people who were putting their fingers to the wind not everybody. You know our own senator here Dick Durbin did not. That's right. That's right. War Ted Kennedy did not vote yes. That way there were you know when Barack Obama was a young state senator he spoke out against the war. But most did Schriock: [00:29:23] And as a scrappy governor from Vermont spoke out against the war, Howard Dean. And you know I got the call and they said it is so funny he was so scrappy and had so little foundation that the call I got from his consultant was. Stephanie do you know anybody that would take this job. Well usually but do you have any suggestions. He's a pugnacious fellow and I find there are a lot of I take the job and that was it. I was on my way to Burlington Vermont. And what when I got there I mean we really had nothing. And this was during that time nobody will remember this. I mean remember this remember matching funds. So this was the last the last era where there was a chance that a presidential candidate was actually going to accept the federal matching funds and there's a whole process to get there you know and there was a spending cap so matching funds you could only spend so much money and I can't remember exactly how the system worked but I knew that the maximum we could raise was 36 million dollars. That was the max. And so I wrote out a plan to raise 36 million dollars. I lose my job. We got to get to 36 million and I asked Howard. Governor Dean at the time is that so you know how much do you think he could raise and he said oh I don't know maybe 10 million I said I'm not taking this job I must be serious about this. Like we got to do the whole thing. 10 is a lot of money and it was a huge amount for him as well. How are you going to get to over 30 million of them Jerry. It's a lot. It's a lot. And we built it and when I got there we started it we started putting together. We'll never forget this is how new this all was. So there was a Web site and there was a link on that website to donate. And I would get these cash flow documents of income coming in in the first two weeks. There was this one line that just had none. It was like an account. And I had money coming in every day. And oh well what is this. Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 8

9 Where is this coming from. Oh I don't want to know. I mean we don't know where the money is coming from what is this from. And it took me and this is embarrassing but it's true. It took us a couple of days to figure out it was the merchant account on the Web site. Nobody was getting money just over the transom on a Web site. I'd never seen it before. And all these all this work with Senate races I had never seen just money over the transom. No ask, just coming in. And that's that's when I knew we had something really good we didn't even have anybody managing the Web site at the time. Axelrod: [00:32:01] It's like Isaac Newton getting hit on the head. Schriock: [00:32:05] I was like we got something going on here. We need help and then thankfully Joe Trippi came on board I hired Joe was very fluent in the Internet. He was sort of a visionary on that. Yeah. And he was and he was great and very very helpful. And I I had always been very interested on the online fundraising and I watched move on because move on of you know came up in will came up during the impeachment hearings of Bill Clinton. That's what Moveon started. Move on from the impeachment hearings. And then after that in 2000 they decided to support a couple of candidates who had defended Bill Clinton in the Senate or no excuse me who had who had gone against him. That's what it was. And so they did some fundraising and it worked online. Yes. And we've never seen that really before. So I've been watching this and really interested in how it was working but I didn't know I was not in this in the language of it yet. Axelrod: [00:33:16] I remember because I was working for another campaign at the time when your fund raising just exploded. And it was like a lightning rod. Washington was shaken I forget what your June filing was but it was seven point six began in the fall. [crosstalk] So here's Howard Dean and he's doing it all in these small contributions. Schriock: [00:33:52] And it was small increments from everywhere. It was online. It was direct mail it was telemarketing. We were doing these these event these meet ups. We called them yes or people organized but they're also making small contributions. I used to call them paid a rally. They do rallies and they would just all make contributions. This is like a pay at a rally. It is true that when did all these other events too everything was on fire. But the June 30th of which I'm sure many remember on other campaigns is I hear about it still today like we at the Dean campaign decided to go live with how much money we were raising online. Axelrod: [00:34:35] So you raised this money and he took off and you know in the fall of 2004 three in Iowa he was the man to beat. Schriock: [00:34:48] Yes he was. Axelrod: [00:34:49] And it really I won't name who but someone I was in another campaign as I mentioned someone in your campaign called and said. Look this is over. Howard is going to win Iowa. And I want to talk to you about how this is going to go after and so on. And I mean that's how certain people felt about this what happened was was where was the campaign and was he prepared for being shot out of a cannon Schriock: [00:35:19] No no nobody was prepared for what happened. You know the explosion happened over the summer. I mean June was sort of the beginning of that that July. He was on Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 9

10 he had full covers on two of the three big news magazines which was a huge deal particularly then the next quarter we raised nearly 15 million dollars which surpassed the most amount any presidential campaign ever raised in a quarter by a million. But there was also a lot of shakiness going on in the campaign because what we had like awesome good people but very green outside of a couple of us. And you know Joe Trippi but if you went like under One-Step and we're talking to folks who these are first campaigns we're just like you started thinking about at one point I remember sitting with Joe and saying when when do the people come to help us like we were sort of like they're coming because we're leading and it's time for some of the more established people who do these races. I haven't felt like as a financier. I've never been a finance director for presidential. It was working like they're going to come soon right. I mean there was sort of a sense of I know I'm sure we can [crosstalk] Axelrod: [00:36:45] Story that your strength is your weakness and weakness is your strength. There was a beautiful sort of purity to the Dean campaign but there also was a lack of experience. Schriock: [00:36:58] Yes. And and you have to have I think you just have to have both of those things you need some experienced hands but you need the energy of youth and newness to make those work. And one of the things we also did and it's a failing of I take personal responsibility. I hope others do as well. We ran our guy into the ground. And we really you know it was one of the lessons I walked away with. I worked with many but you can not exhaust your candidate. And we exhausted him. I was just exhausted nobody was thinking clearly and everybody no one was sleeping in the pressure. And you know this better than any breaks you've done you know a handful these presidential campaigns the pressure of a presidential campaign itself the recognition that once you're the frontrunner getting really thought about being president and all of a sudden it's not it's not a house race. Everything you say it's like nothing [crosstalk] on your shoulders. Axelrod: [00:38:00] We've got you know probably about 6 million Democrats planning to run for president and no one really knows who are very few. Some of them have run before. What this is like. But the better you do the harder it gets. It's like a pole vaulting you know you clear the bar and the bar gets raised. Schriock: [00:38:21] That's right. Axelrod: [00:38:22] And you know no I think there was a clear sense that and by the way it's worse today than ever because of social media and cable and at the ferocity that cable runs today. And you know the pace and you know. So you're you are constantly under a microscope and everything you say can be consequential. But of course that's true of the presidency as well. Schriock: [00:38:55] I mean you know Trippi always said the thing about the presidential primaries and the presidential election is that if you survive it you get to be president. Axelrod: [00:39:05] Yes. Schriock: [00:39:06] And and most don't survive the process itself makes the president. And I think that's that's absolutely true. And it's so because nobody knows nobody who's going to run. Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 10

11 Axelrod: [00:39:18] Now we're you know we've had a perverse sort of test of this because you've got a guy who seems impervious to any concerns about the impacts of what he says and therefore he was willing to say anything that he thought might be marketable and that has its own issues so he's in a special category. But let let me let me ask you about you managed the Tester race as you said which was a great win for for the Democrat by Jon Tester is a is a wonderful guy just as decent a person as you'll find in that in that Congress. Farmer [crosstalk] just just the best the best guy. Absolutely. In 2008 they sent you in to save Al Franken who has had a very tough race than you know I think he wrote about this partly blames us for it because we didn't exactly ride to his rescue. Yeah in that campaign which was a mistake. [crosstalk] Schriock: [00:40:41] Right. And you know folks asked me because the point of that is when we were we all believe that if the Obama for America plane had landed at the last weekend in Minnesota that we would have just gotten a few extra votes we needed. And that didn't happen it landed in Iowa instead. And you got make your decisions. But I do remind people what that cost. Yeah. One is simply it cost twelve million dollars of Democratic money to get through the recount and the trial and everything. He didn't get seated. But would it really cost was a huge cut in the stimulus package. Yes. Because you needed another vote. Right and you had to get Olympia Snowe and to get Olympia Snowe there. If I remember correctly there was a hundreds of millions of dollars cut out the stimulus package. Remember whether Snowe or Collins I can't either I apologize I don't know. Axelrod: [00:41:40] But you know there was Senator Nelson who was a Democrat also was on the same program. But there's no doubt that that was a consequential thing that having not having frank and in the Senate at that time so I can't bring him up without talking not just about the way he got to the Senate but the way he left the Senate and I've said you know candidly that you shouldn't say that about yourself. That's never good when you say I said candidly. Well what about the rest of the time are you. But I've said I I really I regret what happened to him because what he was asking for was a hearing. He never got the hearing. I felt like he was collateral damage in pursuit of the Alabama Senate seat because he was an inconvenient problem for Democrats as they were heading into this race against Roy Moore. And I think it was unfair. I think it was unfair. But I want to ask you because of the position you hold and you know you're you're right there and the ME2 movement is driving a lot of our politics right now and driving a lot of candidacies and a lot of energy. And I think in a positive way. Schriock: [00:43:07] That's right. Axelrod: [00:43:08] But in this case it feels like it was politics run amok a little bit. Schriock: [00:43:14] You know it was it was such a painful time for everybody involved. And I think that's that's important to note here. It ended up being a perfect storm that we we just nobody could pull him out of. And that is incredibly frustrating. Well what I will say he was never going to do anything that wasn't going to help the people of Minnesota and it when it became clear and clear particularly when the senator started calling for his resignation that he was he was going to have a hard time doing his work and he loves loves Minnesota and did not want to do anything to hurt or damage the people there. But the the moment itself it's so important that we know that women feel like they can can tell their story and we need to listen and that's what meeting is about right. And thank goodness because it's been you know thousands of years Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 11

12 where women haven't been listened to at all. Right. And they do need to be listened to. And they needed to be taken seriously. And that's that's really important. We also need to have processes in place to figure out what should be done and what the ramification of a situation should be and what the problem I feel like was in Congress and by the way still is today is that there's no clear process. There was no immediate Ethics Committee hearing there was no immediate of conversation but what to do next. There's no H. Our human resources department really and in these institutions in Congress. And so there's just no no one really knew what it was in a real way and yes there's an ethics committee is going to be six months later and that wasn't good enough for that momenr. And you're right. Then there was Roy Moore just stare in there like Axelrod: [00:45:30] Both parties had you know the Republican Party had an interest in stringing the Franken thing out. The Democratic Party had an interest in cutting it short. The Moore thing was coming down and within days. Schriock: [00:45:42] Well and you had and you had more women coming out. Axelrod: [00:45:47] Right. Schriock: [00:45:48] You're saying they'd had these. And you know this is not pleasant experiences with the senator before he was in the Senate. By the way no none of it was during the Senate. And you know so it was just incredibly frustrating. The other frustrating part because I am heartbroken over the whole thing. Axelrod: [00:46:06] The odd thing about it was he apologized and not that that should that that that alone was not that's not a like pass to get out what you. But it's like you know he was earnestly trying to address this and that the people who are denying what they had done were getting a pass. Now Roy Moore ultimately didn't get a pass. But you do have you know still accusers Schriock: [00:46:36] In the White House. Axelrod: [00:46:37] Yeah exactly the point right. Exactly so. Schriock: [00:46:40] I mean it is you know the other thing that was happening though in a and I want to speak to this because it was really hard particularly the women in the Senate were looked upon as like as the leaders like what. What are we supposed to do. And the the press and everybody was on them every single day. And then you had. So there's that. You know and you know when you start just building up the pressure and the is building building building and we had an understandably particularly young women it's a generational difference. We have found on what should be the punishment but younger women are really done Don. They can't even believe we're dealing with this stuff. And so you'd walk into your office and look at your fabulous young staff who's working so hard for you. And they're all looking back at you going. Why is this guy still here. Axelrod: [00:47:35] Right. Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 12

13 Schriock: [00:47:35] And that was real. And that happens all the time. So this is such a complicated moment and it's so important for us as we move forward. We've got to get clear processes in place for you whether it's if we can't get it in place in Congress what is the waitress at the diner going to do. Like we have got such gigantic problems across this country with sexual harassment in the workplace and we've got to start dealing with it right in Congress first and then start putting in there are things we can do in this country to help women and and have these conversations. So we've got to start doing it and I really hope to see that Congress and I don't even know why this would be a partisan thing. I don't understand why all of the leaders don't get together and go you know what the There seems to be incidences on both sides. We just got to fix this. Why can't we do that. Axelrod: [00:48:26] I have to ask you about Hillary Clinton we met at one point and talked about her and I know that you were someone who people thought of as a potential manager of that campaign. And I know you were invested in it. What happened in that campaign. I mean I know what happened. I know but you know it's not good enough to me to say it. Russians call me and all of that all of which were. But as a campaign professional What was your analysis of what happened. Schriock: [00:49:05] Well I think you've got to start with what we were going into early forget about Donald Trump when that campaign started it was clear to us at Emily's List that we had an uphill battle because it was a change environment just had eight years of Democratic incumbent is like the party. It is really hard to elect a party for a third term. It can be done. But that is that so. First off we knew we were going into that environment. We knew in our polling at Emily's List that Millennials are the millennial vote wasn't all that excited about didn't really know. To be honest I just did which is so hard for you and me. We all know her right. They knew some things about her but they did. There wasn't sort of a fully rounded picture of who Hillary was. So that that was a problem we knew that early on. And so you get those things. Oh and by the way we've never elected a woman as president. So we don't have any idea really deep down how folks are going to feel about that. So that was sort of the beginning. So that's the beginning challenges. And then you know and then we've got you know what I would say was a constant constant beating on the s and Benghazi and I often said particularly when we got to the action like this like every day it's the same you know two or three things against Hillary Clinton is the same. Boom boom boom. DONALD TRUMP There's 20 terrible things to talk about with him today. But there's so many that nobody can focus on one. I still think that's the proper that he's brilliant at that. I think if we get all stick to one thing know liars that's for sure it's amazing. He really does. And so that was not helpful. I'm not sure what I would have done to try to alleviate that situation. You know did she. Maybe she didn't have more things bad happen and she needed to money like Donald Trump you only [crosstalk] Axelrod: [00:51:26] And so what it felt to me like there was too much reliance on this sort of demographic you know theory that you know if we got that women that young people that minorities. And so there were if there was an emphasis on these issues to try and galvanize the base right and the end it made it easy for Trump to say you know they don't care about you. They disdain you the deplorable and so on. And it seems to me that I'm saying the reason I raise it is because we're going into another campaign. We are. And it goes back to the issue we talked about at the beginning which is are we going to run you know are we going to see a campaign or are Democrats going to run a campaign that speaks to a big diverse country or are or are they going to play that sort of demographic roulette again. Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 13

14 Schriock: [00:52:32] We have in my opinion to win a presidential campaign you need to find a way to bring the country together with and and with some excitement or joy or hope which you did so well with President Obama. Folks are looking to be together. I've always believed I think Americans want to be together in finding ways to bring us all together is the most important thing. And so I do worry about playing as you call this. We can't be like this niche group and in this group and this group and this group there is more that unites us and we make a mistake by not using a vision that unites us together as Americans. There's a set of values and I think they are Democratic Party values that that extend into independents and in a lot of Republicans maybe not all. Maybe not like the core base of Trump but a lot. That's like every single American deserves an opportunity to earn a good living to have a good unifying. It does seem like a unifier. And then they have to believe in that. I think that's really important Axelrod: [00:53:57] Also to recognize that you need some solid big solid ideas about what that means in a time when we have this dramatic change in our economy. So 2018 we've seen this absolute you know avalanche of women you know avalanche [crosstalk] Schriock: [00:54:27] I like avalanche not because sometimes it sounds dangerous and it is avalanches are dangerous but what's so powerful about an avalanche is it gets bigger as it goes down. That is what's happening. It is getting bigger as we keep moving away like this like it gets just growing and growing every day. Give the stats on how many women are running for Congress this year as opposed to past years. You have that in the top of. You know there are hundreds of women. There are hundreds of women running for the House right now across the country. I mean I think the most I mean we're still filing deadlines and know yet how many EMILY's List is actively involved in races of over 70 now. So these are key races that are going to swing over. I said to Leader Pelosi I would like Emily's List to help deliver the majority by delivering the majority. We'd like to elect 23 women and pick up seats to give you the majority. Some good men can win too. And there are some good men. Thank you Connor Lamb I'm thrilled to hear Jason Grow in Colorado. Great job like there's greatly good men. We really feel like there is an opportunity here to pick up 23 seats maybe some more with women. And what that would do to the caucus. But it's so much larger than the house and that's an important piece of it. I mean we have a historic number of women running for governor now across the country legislative and the legislative seats. So I'm Virginia that huge historic numbers and we're seeing that as filing deadlines close over and over and over again. We're on the ground doing some of the recruitment sort of. It's almost like trying to get folks in the right places at the right time. There's also the issue because like I don't know I don't like trying to put boundaries on it like everybody needs to go on. Yeah we've got more primaries than we've ever had. I'm fine with that. I think it's great. Axelrod: [00:56:23] I don't want to close on a negative note but you know every. Every great thing has its potential challenges too. I remember when EMILY's List was started by Ellen Malcolm and the goal was to try and get women to run for office. Now you have this stampede or avalanche or whatever you want to call it of women running for office and you have this situation we just saw it here in the Illinois primary in a suburban district here Illinois 8. Where I think there are four or five women running and none of them won because they diluted each other's strength. And you've got you know you have other districts I think the 10th district in Virginia which is a very competitive district has a lot of a number of women running. I don't want to be parochial because men ran against each other all the time Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 14

15 Schriock: [00:57:20] For hundreds of years. L iterally hundreds. Axelrod: [00:57:24] But but EMILY's List one of the strengths of it has been that is to sort of channel resources behind female candidates said this is a whole new thing. And are you concerned about more situations like the one we saw in Illinois and also in California where they have this jungle ballot where so many Democrats run in a district that you're going to see Republicans slide into the general election who otherwise wouldn't have gotten into the general Schriock: [00:57:57] The California things a little bit different. I can address that too. But this is what I would say. I mean I think this is all in all a good thing. We have been waiting and waiting for this many women to say yes I want to run and we're winning. A lot of races. I mean look at those Virginia delegate races. Democrats picked up 15 seats 11 of them were EMILY's List. Women who won those seats. You know one of the news outlets a couple of weeks ago said with more women running there'll be more women losing. Really? Yeah that is true or just like there's so many men who lose when they run as well. But there also be a lot more winning. And that's how it should be. There's no reason why there isn't isn't a woman in every race in the country period. Right. I mean there are there for the most part men in every race there should be women. Our challenge is to marshal our resources to get the most advantage out of the numbers like we want to see a historic number of women in the U.S. House wants him in the legislatures. How do we best do that in some cases we make hard decisions to go in with one woman over another woman. We're very careful when we do it. We look at viability we look at personal story we'll look at straight that Axelrod: [00:59:18] You did that in that Illinois race Schriock: [00:59:20] We did. We did well in 13 Yeah. KELLY Mazursky. And try to get her there and she was a close second. We did just didn't quite work on the other hand Lauren Underwood in Illinois 14 actually had the opposite situation just one woman there are five men one and she won by a lot a lot. So we're seeing a little bit of a mix on these. That's OK. We've got more opportunity to win. And that's that's going to work and I'm really excited about this moment because this isn't just about 18. Yes is going to be the next decades of leadership. Axelrod: [00:59:57] Maybe it's about our country maturing. Schriock: [01:00:01] I hope so. Axelrod: [01:00:02] To the point where men and women are fighting it out on equal plane. Schriock: [01:00:08] It's way beyond time for that. Axelrod: [01:00:10] It is. Stephanie Shriock it's great to have you here. Schriock: [01:00:13] Great. Thank you so much. Axelrod: [01:00:14] Thank you. Ep. 232 Stephanie Schriock 15