Univrsity (now Wolfson) Collg, an thn from 1973 to 1978 Prsint of Hughs Hall, Camrig. H is also th translator of Plato's Timaus an Critias in th Pnguin Classis. Dsmon L i in 1993. MELI S SA LAN E riv hr PhD in philosophy from Camrig Univrsity, whr sh tahs th history of politial thought an politial philosophy in th history faulty. Sh is a fllow of King's Collg. Hr ooks inlu Mtho an Politis in Plato's Statsman (Camrig Univrsity Prss, I998) an Plato's Progny: How Plato an Sorats Still Captivat th. Morn Min (Dukworth, 2001). RACHANA KAMTEKAR tahs philosophy at th Univrsity of Mihigan. Hr rsarh fouss on anint thial an politial philosophy, an sh has writtn on th rlationship twn soial justi an happinss in Plato, an on moral vlopmnt an moral motivation in oth Plato an th Stois. Sh was uat at Stanfor Univrsity an th Univrsity of Chiago. Sh prviously taught at Williams Collg. PLATO Th Rpuli Translat y DESMOND LEE With an Introution y MELISSA LANE SECOND EDITION.5 PENGUIN BOOKS
PENGUIN CLASSICS Pulish y th Pnguin Group Pnguin Books Lt, 80 Stran, Lonon W2.R ORl, Englan Pnguin Group (USA) In., 375 Huson Strt, Nw York. Nw York 10014. USA Pnguin Group IC.l1lIa). 90 EgIinton Avnu East, Suit 700, Toronto, Ontario, Canaa M4P 1Y3 (a ivision of Parson Pnguin Canaa In.) Pnguin Irlan, 2.5 St Stphn's Grn, Dulin 2., Irlan (a ivision of Pnguin Books Lt) Pnguin Group (Australia), 150 Camrwll Roa, Camrwll, Vitoria 312.4, Australia (a ivision of Parson Australia Group Pty Lt) Pnguin Books Ini. Pvt Lt, I I Community Cntr, Panhshl Park, Nw Dlhi - 110 OI7, Inia Pnguin Group (NZ), 67 Apollo Driv, Rosal, North Shor 0631, Nw Zalan (a ivision of Parson Nw Zalan Lt) Pnguin Books (South Afria) (Pty) Lt, 2.4 Stur Avnu, Rosank, Johannsurg 2.I96, South Afria Pnguin Books Lt, Rgistr Offis: 80 Stran, Lonon WC1R ORL, Englan www.pnguin.om First pulish in this translation I 955 Son ition (rvis) 1974 Rprint with aitional rvisions 1987 Rissu with nw Furthr Raing 2.003 Rissu with nw introution 2.007 5 Copyright Th Estat ofh. D. P. L 1955, 1974, 1987 Furthr Raing Rahan. Kamtkar, 2.003 Introution Mlissa Lan, 2.007 All rights rsrv St in ro.2.5/12..2.5 pt PostSript Ao Saon Typst y Rowlan Phototypstting Lt, Bury St Emuns, Suffolk Print in Englan y Clays Lt, St Ivs pi Expt in th Unit Stats of Amria, this ook is sol sujt to th onition that it shall not, y way of tra or othrwis, lnt, r-sol, hir out, or othrwis irulat without th pulishr's prior onsnt in any form of ining or ovr othr than that in whih it is pulish an without a similar onition inluing this onition ing impos on th susqunt purhasr Contnts Introution Furthr Raing Not on th Translation Translator's Aknowlgmnts BK I BK II PART I: INTRODUCTION (327) I. Prlu 2. Th Convntional Viw of Justi Dvlop 3 Thrasymahus an th Rjtion of Convntional Morality 1. First Statmnt an Critiisms 2. Son Statmnt an Final Rfutation 4 Aimantus an Glauon Rstat th Cas for Injusti 1. Glauon 2. Aimantus Xl xli liii Iv 3 8 15 24 40 46 j) Mix Sours PI ) I"(l~' "~fl 110m v.t' ~ ~'gf~.~ till 1MI ~'t! t n:"1fo',~!(\uf(~, FSC ~\;~~;~(~,~\C;:!l;W~;~ O~( 1 Q, www.grnpnguin.o.uk Pnguin Books is ommitt to a sustainal futur for our usinss, our rars an Our pl.nt. Th ook in your hans is ma from papr rtifi y th Forst Stwarship Counil. 5 PAR T II: PRELIM IN ARIES (367) -i I. First Prinipls of Soial Organization 2. Civiliz Soity 3 Qualitis Rquir in th Guarians 53 60 63
GUARDIANS AND AUXILIARIES II3 PART IV GUARDIANS AND AUXILIARIES I. Th Thr Classs an Thir Mutual Rlations Th Guarian lass is suivi into Guarians propr, or Rulrs, an Auxiliaris. Th Rulrs xris suprm authority in th stat an ar slt y xating tsts (th uational aspt of ths is alt with latr, Part VIII). Th Auxiliaris (1 rtain th traitional translation: thr is no singl trm whih sris thir funtion ompltly) isharg Military, Poli, an Exutiv utis unr th orrs of th Rulrs. Evrything whih th Rulrs o is on for th goo of th ommunity. Plato skths a Founation Myth an stringntly rquirs that hilrn ar to mov from lass to lass aoring to mrit an apaility; h os not giv tails, whih might hav n iffiult to work out, ut thr is no rason to out his sriousnss. Plato has n ritiiz for his Founation Myth as if it wr a alulat li. That is partly aus th phras hr translat <magnifint myth' (s 4 I4 ) has n onvntionally mistranslat 'nol li'; an this has n us to support th harg that Plato ountnans manipulation y propagana. But th myth is apt y all thr lasss, Guarians inlu. It is mant to rpla th national traitions whih any ommunity has, whih ar intn to xprss th kin of ommunity it is, or wishs to, its ials, rathr than to stat mattrs of fat. An on of Plato's own ritiisms of moray was that its politiians onstantly misla it, govrning y propagana rathr than rason (f. 488a-, 493a-). 'That, thn, is an outlin of th way in whih w shoul uat [412.J an ring up our Guarians. For w n not go into tail aout thir horal prformans, hunting an fil sports, athlti omptitions an hors-ras. Th tails follow naturally from what w hav sai, an shoul giv no partiular iffiulty. ' 'Ys, I ar say thy won't partiularly iffiult,' h agr. 'Wll,' I ontinu, 'what oms nxt? W shall hav to i, I suppos, whih of our Guarians ar to govrn, an whih to govrn.' 'I suppos so.' 'Wll, it is ovious that th lr must govrn, an th youngr govrn.' 'That is ovious.' 'An again that thos who govrn must th st of thm.' 'That's qually ovious.' 'An th st farmrs ar thos who hav th gratst skill at farming, ar thy not?' 'An so if w want to pik th st Guarians, w must pik thos who hav th gratst skill in wathing ovr th ommunity.'1 'For that shan't w n mn who, sis ing intllignt an apal, rally ar for th ommunity?' 'Tru.' 'But w ar most for what w lov.' 'Invitaly.' 'An th pst afftion is as on intity of intrst, whn w fl that our ow,n goo. an ill fortun is ompltly oun up with that of somthing ls.' 'That is so.' 11 'So w must hoos from among our Guarians thos who appar to us on osrvation to most likly to vot thir livs to oing what thy jug to in th intrst of th ommunity, an who ar nvr prpar to at against it.' 'Thy ar th mn for our purpos.' 'A los wath must kpt on thm, thn, at all ags, to s
II4 PART IV [BOOK Ill] GUARDIANS AND AUXILIARIES II5 if thy stik to this prinipl, an o not forgt or jttison, unr th influn of for or withraft, 2 th onvition that thy must always o what is st for th ommunity.' 'What o you man y jttison?' h ask. 'I will xplain,' I sai. 'It sms to m that whn any lif lavs our mins, th loss is ithr voluntary or involuntary. Voluntary whn th lif is fals an w larn ttr, involuntary whnvr th lif is tru.' 'I unrstan what you man y a voluntary loss, ut not y an involuntary on.' 'But why? Surly you agr that mn ar always unwilling to los a goo thing, ut willing nough to ri of a a on. An isn't it a a thing to iv aout th truth, an a goo thing to possss th truth? For I assum that y possssing th truth you man living that things ar as thy rally ar.' 'Ys, you ar quit right,' h on, 'an I agr that mn ar unwilling to los a lif that is tru.' 'So whn it happns it must u to thft or withraft or for.' 'Now I on't unrstan again,' h sai. 'I'm afrai I'm talking too thatrially,' I answr. 'By "thft" I simply man th insnsil pross y whih popl ar prsua to rlinquish thir lifs y argumnt, or ls simply forgt thm in ours of tim. Now prhaps you unrstan.' 'By "for" I man what happns whn mn hang thir opinions unr th influn of pain or suffring.' 'This too I unrstan,' h sai. 'You ar right.' 'An I think that you too woul all it "withraft"3 whn popl hang thir opinions unr th spll of plasur or impuls of pani.' 'Ys, suh lusions always sm to at lik withraft.' 'To go ak to what I was saying, thn,' I ontinu, 'w must look for th Guarians who will stik most firmly to th prinipl that thy must always o what thy think st for th ommunity. W must wath thm losly from thir arlist yars, an st thm tasks in oing whih thy ar most likly to forgt or l astray from this prinipl; an w must hoos only thos who on't forgt an ar not asily misl. Do you agr?' 'An with th sam n in viw w must s how thy stan up to har work an pain an omptitiv trials.' 'W must.' 'W must also wath thir rations to th thir kin of tst, withraft. If w want to fin out if a olt is nrvous w xpos him to alarming noiss: so w must introu our Guarians whn thy ar young to far an, y ontrast, giv thm opportunitis for plasur, proving thm far mor rigorously than w prov gol in th furna. If thy ar thmslvs wll an ar not asily with, if thy show thmslvs al to maintain in all irumstans oth thir own intgrity an th prinipls of alan an harmony thy larn in thir uation, thn thy may xpt to of th gratst srvi to th ommunity as wll as to thmslvs. An any Guarian who survivs ths ontinuous trials in hilhoo, youth, an manhoo unsath, shall givn authority in our stat; h shall honour uring his liftim an whn h is a shall hav th triut of a puli funral an appropriat mmorial. Anyon who fails to surviv thm w must rjt. 'That in rif, an without going into tails,' I onlu, 'is th way in whih I woul slt an appoint our Rulrs an Guarians.' 'An that's th way I think it shoul on,' h rpli. 'Stritly spaking, thn, it is for thm that w shoul rsrv th trm Guarian in its fullst sns, thir funtion ing to s that frins at hom shall not wjsh, nor fos aroa al, to harm our stat: whil th young mn whom w hav n sriing as Guariths shoul mor stritly all Auxiliaris, thir funtion ing to assist th Rulrs in th xution of thir isions.'4 'I agr,' h sai. 'Now I wonr if w oul ontriv on of thos onvnint storis w wr talking aout a fw minuts ago,s I ask, 'som magnifint myth that woul in itslf arry onvition to our
II6 PART IV [BOOK III] whol ommunity, inluing, if possil, th Guarians thmslvs?' 'What sort of story?' 'Nothing nw - a fairy story lik thos th pots tll an hav prsua popl to liv aout th sort of thing that oftn happn "on upon a tim", ut nvr os now an is not likly to: in it woul n a lot of prsuasion to gt popl to liv it.' 'You sm to hsitating to tll us mor,' h sai. 'An whn I o you will unrstan my hsitation,' 1 assur him. 'Nvr min,' h rpli, 'tll us.' 'I will,' I sai, 'though I on't know how I'm to fin th ourag or th wors to o so. I shall try to prsua first th Rulrs an Solirs, 6 an thn th rst of th ommunity, that th upringing an uation w hav givn thm was all somthing that happn to thm only in a ram. In rality thy wr fashion an rar, an thir arms an quipmnt manufa- tur, in th pths of th arth, an Earth hrslf, thir mothr, rought thm up, whn thy wr omplt, into th light of ay; so now thy must think of th lan in whih thy liv as thir mothr an prott hr if sh is attak, whil thir fllow-itizns thy must rgar as rothrs orn of th sam mothr arth.' 'No wonr you wr asham to tll your story,' h om- 4 1 5 a mnt. I agr that it was in no wonr, ut ask him to listn to th rst of th story. 'W shall,' I sai, 'tll our itizns th following tal: 7 "You ar, all of you in this ommunity, 8 rothrs. But whn go fashion you, h a gol in th omposition of thos of you who ar qualifi to Rulrs (whih is why thir prstig is gratst); h put silvr in th Auxiliaris, an iron an ronz in th farmrs an othr workrs. Now sin you ar all of th sam stok, though your hilrn will ommonly rsml thir parnts, oasionally a silvr hil will orn of goln parnts, or a goln hil of silvr parnts, an so on. Thrfor th first an most important of go's ommanmnts to th Rulrs is GUARDIANS AND AUXILIARIES that in th xris of thir funtion as Guarians thir prinipal ar must to wath th mixtur of mtals in th haratrs of thir hilrn. If on of thir own hilrn has tras of ronz or iron in its mak-up, thy must harn thir harts, assign it its propr valu, an gra it to th ranks of th inustrial. an agriultural lass whr it proprly longs: similarly, if a hil of this lass is orn with gol or silvr in its natur, thy will promot it appropriatly to a Guarian or an Auxiliary. An this thy must o aus thr is a prophy that th Stat will ruin whn it has Guarians of silvr or ronz.,,9 That is th story. Do you know of any way of making thm liv it?' 'Not in th first gnration,' h sai, 'ut you might su with th son an latr gnrations.' 'Evn so it shoul srv to inras thir loyalty to th stat an to ah othr. For I think 1 unrstan what you man.' 2. Th Rulrs' an Auxiliaris' Way of Lif Th Rulrs an Auxiliaris ar to liv a lif of austr simpliity, without privat proprty or {as will appar mor larly latr, in th opning not to Part VI, stion 2} family lif; for privat proprty was, Plato thought, th hif tmptation that l mn to sarifi puli to prsonal intrsts {f. 464C}. Th happinss of oth will li in thir srvi to th ommunity; for it is th happinss of th ommunity as a whol, an not of any partiular lass, that is th ojtiv. 'But lt us lav that to popular traition to i, an arm our arth orn itizn~ an onut thm to thir ity, unr th larship of th Rulrs. On arrival th Rulrs 10 must pik a sit for a amp whih will st nal thm to ontrol any intrnal isafftion or to rpl any attak y an xtrnal nmy, sning lik a wolf on th fol. Whn thy hav ma thir amp, thy will sarifi to th appropriat gos, an thn arrang slping quartrs. Do you agr?' II7
4I6 a II8 PART IV [BOOK III]. 'An ths quartrs must provi aquat shltr oth in summr an wintr, mustn't thy?' 'Ys; for I tak it you man thm to liv thr.' 'I o; ut as solirs an not as mn of mans.' 'What is th iffrn?' 'I will try to xplain. It woul th most raful isgra for a shphr to kp shp-ogs so aly r an train, that isoin or hungr or som a trait or othr l thm to worry th shp an hav mor lik wolvs than ogs.' 'It woul of ours raful.' 'W must thrfor tak vry possil praution to prvnt our Auxiliaris trating our itizns lik that aus of thir suprior strngth, an having mor lik savag tyrants than partnrs an frins.' 'W must rtainly try to prvnt that.' 'An th gratst possil praution will hav n takn, will it not, if thy hav n proprly uat?' 'As in fat thy hav n,' h sai. To whih I rpli, 'W oughtn't to too positiv aout that, my ar Glauon; what w an positiv aout is what w. hav just sai, namly that thy must givn th right uation, whatvr that may, as th surst way to mak thm hav humanly to ah othr an th sujts in thir harg.' 'That is tru.' 'It woul thrfor rasonal to say that, sis ing so uat, thy shoul hous an thir matrial ns provi for in a way that will not prvnt thm ing xllnt Guarians, yt will not tmpt thm to pry upon th rst of th ommunity.' 'That is vry tru.' 'Wll thn,' I sai, 'if thy ar to hav ths haratristis, I suggst that thy shoul liv an hous as follows. First, thy shall hav no privat proprty yon th arst ssntials. Son, non of thm shall possss a wlling-hous or storhous to whih all hav not th right of ntry. Nxt, thir foo shall provi y th othr itizns as an agr wag for th.guardians AND AUXILIARIES utis thy prform as Guarians; it shall suital for rav mn living unr military training an isiplin, an in quantity nough to nsur that thr is nithr a surplus nor a fiit ovr th yar. Thy shall at togthr in msss an liv togthr lik solirs in amp. Thy must tol that thy hav no n of mortal an matrial gol an silvr, aus thy hav in thir harts th havnly gol an silvr givn thm y th gos as a prmannt possssion, an it woul wik to pollut th havnly gol in thir possssion y mixing it with arthly, for thirs is without impurity, whil that in urrny among mn is 4I7 a a ommon sour of wiknss. Thy alon, thrfor, of all th itizns ar forin to touh or hanl silvr or gol; thy must not om unr th sam roof as thm, nor war thm as ornamnts, nor rink from vssls ma of thm. Upon this thir safty an that of th stat pns. If thy aquir privat proprty in lan, houss, or mony, thy will om farmrs an mn of usinss insta of Guarians, an harsh tyrants insta of partnrs in thir alings with thir fllow itizns,. with whom thy will liv on trms of mutual hatr an suspiion; thy will mor afrai of intrnal rvolt than xtrnal attak, an haing fast for strution that will ovrwhlm thmslvs an th whol ommunity. 'For all ths rasons w shoul provi for th housing an othr matrial ns of th Guarians in th way I hav sri. So shall w lgislat aoringly?' 'Lt us o so y all mans,' answr Glauon. 'But look hr,sorats,' intrrupt Aimantus, 'how BK IV woul you answr th ojtion that you arn't making your Guarians partiularly happy? It's thir own fault, of ours, 4I9 aus th stat is in thir ;ontrol, ut thy on't sm to gt any goo out of it.. Othr rulrs possss lans an uil thmslvs fin largf! houss an furnish thm magnifintly; thy offr thir own privat sarifis to th gos, thy ntrtain visitors, an aquir th gol an silvr you wr just talking aout, an vrything ls whih is ommonly thought to mak a man happy. But on might almost sri your Guarians as a st of hir mrnaris quartr in th ity with nothing to 420" o ut prptual guar-uty.' II9
120 PART IV [BOOK IV) 'Ys; I rpli, 'an what is mor, thy o it for thir kp only, an gt no pay ovr an aov it lik othr mn, so that thy an't go for a holiay aroa on thir own if thy want to; thy hav nothing to spn on womn or on all thos othr things on whih thos who ar ommonly rkon wll off spn thir mony. An thr ar a whol lot of othr hargs you hav omitt.' 'Lt us tak thm as ra thn; h sai. 'An you want to know how w shoul rply?' 'I think,' 1 sai, 'that w shall fin our rply if w stik to th path w hav n pursuing, an say that, though it woul not in fat in th last surprising if our Guarians wr vry happy in, our purpos in founing our stat was not to promot th partiular happinss of a singl lass, ut, so far as possil, of th whol ommunity. Our ia was that w wr most likly to fin justi in suh a ommunity, an similarly. injusti in a rally aly run ommunity, an in light of our finings al to i th qustion w ar trying to answr. W ar thrfor at th momnt trying to onstrut what w think is a happy ommunity y suring th happinss not of a slt minority, ut of th whol. Th opposit kin of ommunity w will xamin prsntly.ll Now if w wr painting a statu, an wr mt with th ritiism that w wr not using th most autiful olours for th most autiful parts of th oy - fqr w ha not olour th ys, th oy's most prious fatur, purpl, ut lak - w oul, 1 think, rason aly rply as follows: "It is asur to xpt us to rprsnt th auty of th y in a way whih os not mak it look lik an y at all, an th sam is tru of th othr parts of th oy; you shoul look rathr to s whthr w hav ma th whol autiful y giving ah part its propr olour. So, in th prsnt' as," w might go on, "on't mak us giv our Guarians th kin of happinss that will mak thm anything ut Guarians." W oul prftly wll loth our farmrs in ros of stat an put rowns on thir has an tll thm to ultivat th lan at thir plasur, an w oul mak our pottrs li on ouhs roun th fir, an lt thm rink an njoy thmslvs, putting GUARDIANS AND AUXILIARIES 121 thir whl at thir si for thm to mak pots only as thy flt inlin; in, w oul try to mak th whol ommunity happy y giving vryon ls similarly lissful onitions. But you must not tll us to o so; for th rsult of suh avi will that our farmrs ar no longr farmrs nor our pottrs pottrs, 421 a an that all th lasss that mak up our ommunity los thir propr haratr. In othr ass this os not mattr muh - th ommunity suffrs nothing vry trril if its olrs ar a an om gnrat an prtntious; ut if th Guarians of th laws an stat, who alon hav th opportunity to ring it goo govrnmnt an prosprity, om a mr sham, thn larly it is ompltly ruin. 'So if w ar making gnuin Guarians, who will th last to harm th ommunity, whil our riti prfrs ilrs12 happily njoying thmslvs in somthing mor lik a fun-fair than a ity, thn h is not thinking of a ommunity at all. W must thrfor i whthr our ojt in stting up th Guarian lass is to mak it as happy as w an, or whthr happinss is a thing w shoul look for in th ommunity as a whol. If it is, our Guarians an Auxiliaris must ompll to at aoringly an prsua, as in must vryon ls, that it is thir usinss to prft thmslvs in thir own partiu- 1ar jo; thn our stat will uilt on th right asis, an, as it grows, w an lav ah lass to njoy th shar of happinss its natur prmits.' 'That,' h sai, 'sms to put it vry fairly.' 3."Final Provisions for Unity ",5 Th Guarians must s that in th Thir Class, whih is alon allow to possss proprty, xtrms of walth an povrty ar xlu. Thir military training will nsur suss in war, ut thy must maintain unity y not allowing th stat to grow too larg, an y nsuring that th masurs for promotion an motion from on lass to anothr ar arri out. Aov all thy must maintain th uational systm unhang; for on uation vrything ls pns, an it is an illusion to
42.2. a 122 PART IV [BOOK IV] imagin that mr lgislation witho~t it an fft anything of onsqun. Rligious arrangmnts ar to lft to th Oral at Dlphi, 'whih was normally onsult for th founation of a nw ity'. 13 'I wonr,' I ask, 'whthr you will think a losly rlat viw of min as rasonal?' 'What xatly is it?' 'That thr ar two things that an ruin an orrupt th rst of our workrs.' 'What ar thy?' 'Walth an povrty,' I sai. 'An how o thy o it?' 'Wll, o you think that a pottr who has om rih will want to ply his tra any longr?' 'No.' 'H will om mor il an arlss than h was, won't h?' 'Muh mor.' 'An so a wors pottr.' 'Ys, muh wors.' 'An again, if h is prvnt y povrty from proviing himslf with tools an othr nssitis of his tra th quality of his work will triorat, an his sons an anyon ls stuying th tra unr him will not taught it so wll.' 'Invitaly.' 'Both povrty an walth, thrfor, hav a a fft on th quality of th work an on th workman himslf.' 'So it appars.' 'So w hav foun two furthr things,' I sai, 'whih our Guarians must at all osts prvnt from slipping unosrv into our stat.' 'What ar thy?' 'Walth an povrty,' I answr. 'On prous luxury an ilnss an a sir for novlty, th othr mannss an a workmanship an th sir for rvolution as wll.' 'I agr,' h rpli. 'But hr's anothr qustion. How o GUARDIANS AND AUXILIARIES 123 you think our stat will al to fight a war, Sorats, if it has no walth, spially if it is ompll to fight against an nmy that is oth larg an walthy?' 'Oviously it woul mor iffiult to fight a singl nmy of this sort than two,' 1 sai. 'What o you man?' h ask. 'In th first pla,' 1 sai, 'if thy hav to fight, our Guarians will fight as train solirs against thir rih antagonists.' 'Ys, 1 grant that.' 'But om, Aimantus,' 1 sai, 'on't you think that on oxr in prft training is asily a math for two mn who ar not oxrs, ut rih an fat?' 'Not if thy oth st on him at on, prhaps.' 'Not vn if h is al to rtrat a littl, an thn turn on th lar an hit him, an rpat th pross oftn in th hot sun? Surly in this way h oul gt th ttr of mor than two?' 'Ys, of ours: thr woul nothing surprising in that.' 'An on't you agr that rih mn ar likly to hav mor knowlg an xprin of oxing than of war?' 'Wll thn, it woul appar that our train solirs shoul asily a math for two or thr tims thir numr.' 'I will grant that,' h sai; 'I think you ar right.' 'So suppos w sn nvoys to on of th two stats to say, truly nough, "Unlik you w hav no us for, silvr or gol, whih ar forin us, though not to you. If thrfor you will fight on our si you shall hav all th othr stat has." Do you think that any stat haring ths trms will prfr to fight against our tough an wiry wathogs, rathr than with thm an against fat an tnr shp?' 'I shoul think not. But on't you think that our stat might in som angr l:j'aus of its lak of walth, if th othrs pool all thir rsours?' h ask. To whih I rpli: 'You'r luky to al to think of any ommunity as worth th nam of "stat" whih iffrs from th on w ar uiling.' 'But what shoul 1 all th othrs?' h ask. 'W ought to fin som granr nam for thm,' I rpli. 'Eah of thm is, as th provr says, not so muh a singl stat
124 PART IV [BOOK IVJ GUARDIANS AND AUXILIARIES as a olltion of stats. For it always ontains at last two stats, th rih an th poor, at nmity with ah othr; ah of ths in turn has many suivisions, an it is a omplt mistak to trat thm all as a unity. Trat thm as a plurality, offr to han ovr th proprty or th powr or th prsons.of on stion to anothr, an you will hav allis in plnty an vry fw nmis. As long as your stat maintains th isiplin w hav lai own, it will rmain suprm, I on't man in ommon stimation, ut in ral truth, vn though it has only a thousan fnrs. You won't asily fin a singl stat so grat anywhr among th Grks or ararians, though you'll fin many, ma,ny tims its siz, that ar thought muh gratr. Or o you isagr?' 'No, rtainly not: 'I suggst, thrfor,' I sai, 'that our Rulrs might us this as th st stanar for trmining th siz of our stat an th amount of trritory it ns an yon whih it shoul not xpan.' 'What stanar?' 'Th stat shoul, I think,' I rpli, ' allow to grow so long as growth is ompatil with unity, ut no furthr.' 'A vry fair limit,' h sai. 'So w an a to th instrutions w shall giv our Guarians on to th fft that thy ar to avoi at all osts ithr making th stat too small or rlying on apparnt siz, ut kp it aquat in sal an a unity.' 'A ni asy jo for thml' h rmark ironially. 'An hr's an asir on,' I ontinu in th sam vin; w mntion it for whn w sai that if any hil of a Guarian is a poor spimn, it must gra to th othr lasss, whil any hil in th othr lasss who is worth it must promot to th rank of Guarian. By this it was impli that all th othr itizns ought iniviually to vot thir full nrgy to th on partiular jo for whih thy ar naturally suit. In that way th intgrity an unity oth of th iniviual an of th stat will prsrv,.14 'Ys, a still asir jo!' h rpli. 'But sriously, Aimantus,' I sai, 'w arn't asking a grat al of thm, as might suppos; it will all quit asy, provi thy tak ar of th rally "ig thing", as th provr has it, though "suffiint onition" woul a ttr xprssion. ' 'An what is that?' 'Th systm of uation an upringing. If thy ar wll uat, an om rasonal mn, thy an asily s to all w hav ask thm to, an in a goo many things w hav for th momnt omitt, suh as th position of womn, marriag, an th proution of hilrn, all of whih ought so far as possil to alt with on th provrial asis of "all things in ommon twn frins".'15 'Ys, thy an al with all ths prolms.' 'An on w hav givn our systm 16 a goo start,' I point out, 'th pross of improvmnt 17 will umulativ. By maintaining a soun systm of uation an upringing you prou itizns of goo haratr; an itizns of soun haratr, with th avantag of a goo uation, prou in turn hilrn ttr than thmslvs an ttr al to prou still ttr hilrn in thir turn, as an sn with animals.' 'That is likly nough.' 'In a wor thrfor, thos in harg of our stat must stik to th systm of uation an s that no trioration rps in; thy must maintain it as a first priority an avoi at all osts any innovation in th stalish physial or aami urriulum. Whn thy har somon saying that mn p~y most attntion to th latst song on th singr's lips,18 thy must afrai that popl will think that th pot mans not nw songs, ut a ntw kin of song, an that that is what h is rommning. But suh innovation shoul not rommn, nor shoul th pot so unrstoo. You shoul hsitat to hang th styl of your litratur, aus you risk vrything if you o; th musi an litratur 19 of a ountry annot altr without major politial an soial hangs - w hav Damon's wor for it an I liv him.'
126 PART IV (BOOK IV] 'An you an st m own as a livr too,' sai Aimantus. 'An so it is hr, in uation, that our Guarians must uil thir main fns.,20 'It is in uation that isorr21 an most asily rp in unosrv,' h rpli. 'Ys,' I agr, 'aus popl trat it as hil's-play,22 an think no harm an om of it.' 'It only os harm,' h sai, 'aus it graually maks itslf at hom an quitly unrmins morals an mannrs; from thm it issus with gratr for an invas usinss alings gnrally, an thn, Sorats, spras into th laws an onstitution with omplt lak of rstraint, until it has upst th whol of privat an puli lif.' 'Is it rally as a as that?' I sai. 'Ys, I think it is.' 'Thn osn't it follow, as w sai to gin with, that th amusmnts in whih our hilrn tak part must ttr rgulat; aus on thy an th hilrn om isorrly, it 'oms impossil to prou srious itizns with a rspt for orr?' 425 a 'Ys, it follows.'- 'But if hilrn play on th right lins from th ginning an larn orrly haits from thir uation, ths prou quit th opposit rsults, following an fostring thir growth an orrting any prvious flaws thr may hav n in th soity.' 'Tru nough.' 'An popl so rought up isovr ruls whih sm quit trivial, ut whih thir prssors ha ntirly nglt.' 'What sort of ruls?' 'For xampl, that th young shoul osrv a propr siln in th prsn of thir lrs, giv up thir sats to thm an stan, an look aftr thir parnts; sis th whol usinss of on's rss an aring, kping on's hair an loths an shos tiy, an so on. Do you agr?' 'But I think it woul silly to lgislat for suh things. Writtn rgulations won't ithr prou thm or maintain thm.' GUARDIANS AND AUXILIARIES 127 'No, thy won't.' 'No, Aimantus,' I sai; 'for it's th irtion givn y uation that is likly to trmin all that follows - lik alls to lik, osn't it?,23 'Ys, of ours.' 'An w shoul xpt th final onsqun to a gran rsult that is goo or th opposit.' 'Invitaly,' h agr. 'An that,' I onlu, 'is why I shoul not try to lgislat for suh minor mattrs.' 'An you ar quit right,' h sai. 'Thn what aout usinss transations? For xampl, ontrats ma in th markt an ontrats for manufatur, qustions of slanr an assault, th loging of lgal ations an mpanlling of juris, xation an paymnt of markt or harour us, an th gnral usinss of rgulating usinss an poli an harour-hargs an othr similar affairs. Ar w to vntur on lgislation in ths fils?' 'Goo mn n no orrs,' h sai. 'Thy will fin out asily nough what lgislation is in gnral nssary.' 'Thy will,' I agr, 'if go nals thm to prsrv th laws w hav alray sri.' 'Othrwis,' h sai, 'thy will spn thir whol tim making an orrting tail rgulations of th sort you'v sri, always xpting to ahiv prftion.'24 'You man,' sai I, 'that thy will la livs lik invalis who lak th rstraint to giv up a viious way of lif.' 'Exatly.' 'An a vry attrativ lif thy la! For all thir urs an miins hav no fft -, xpt to mak thir ailmnts wors an mor ompliat - yt thy liv in hop that vry nw miin thy ar ro'inmn will rstor thm to halth.' 'Exatly,' h sai; 'that's just what happns to that sort of invali.' 'Thn,' I rpli, 'is not anothr attrativ trait thir way of tsting anyon who tlls thm th truth - that until thy put an n to thir ating an rinking an womanizing an ilnss, thy will gt no goo out of rugs or autry or
128 PART IV [BOOK IV] oprations, or out of splls or harms or anything ls of th kin?'zs 'Not so vry amusing,' h sai; 'thr's nothing attrativ in rsnting goo avi.' 'It looks as if you on't approv of this sort of popl.' 'I rtainly on't.' 'An you won't approv if a whol ity follows th ours w hav sri, I suppos. For 1 think you will agr that this is what itis ar oing whih mismanag thir affairs ut fori on pain of ath any altration in th stalish onstitution; thy will honour as a gr~t an profounly wis man anyon who lavs thm to thir mismanagmnt, ut flattrs thm agraly an givs thm plasur y running thir rrans, or is lvr at antiipating an fulfilling thir wishs.' 'I agr that that's what thy'r oing,' h sai, 'an I on't approv in th last.' 'An what aout thos who ar willing an agr to apply th flattry? Arn't you surpris at thir olnss an irrsponsiility?' 'Ys, xpt whn thy ar iv y popular applaus into thinking that thy rally ar stat$smn.' 'Oh om,' 1 sai, 'won't you forgiv thm? Surly a man who osn't know how to us a foot-rul an harly avoi thinking himslf a six-footr if lots of popl lik himslf tll him h is?' 'Harly.' 'Thn on't har on thm. Thy ar rally vry amusing. Thy lgislat for all th affairs w sri, an thn improv on thir own lgislation, unr th imprssion that thy an put an n to rahs of ontrat an all th othr things 1 was talking aout, an not knowing that th opration's aout as hopful as utting off a Hyra'S ha.' 427 a 'Yt that's all thy'r oing,' h sai. 'I shouln't hav thought, thrfor,' I onlu, 'that a ral lgislator ought to othr aout making laws an institutions of this sort ithr in a a stat or a goo on: in on aus thy ar no us an nothing oms of thm, in th othr aus thy ar partly ovious an partly th automati rsult of arlir training.' GUARDIANS AND AUXILIARIES 'Thn what hav w lft to o in th way of lgislation?' h ask. 1 rpli that thr was nothing in for us to o ourslvs. 'But,' I sai, 'thr rmain for Apollo an th Dlphi oral laws of th highst importan an valu to mak.' 'What aout?' h ask. 'Th founing of tmpls an th institution of sarifis, an othr srvis to th gos an spirits an hros, sis th arrangmnts for th urial of th a an th rits w must pay to th powrs of th othr worl to sur thir goowill. W know nothing aout all ths things ourslvs, an whn w foun our stat w won't ntrust thm, if w hav any sns, to anyon ut thir traitional intrprtr. An it is Apollo who y traition is th intrprtr of suh mattrs to all mn, livring his intrprtation from his sat at th arth's ntr.' 'You ar right; w must at aoringly.'