LEADERSHIP: A CHALLENGING COURSE Michelle Rhee in Washington, D.C. Podcast: Media Darling May 3, 2009 TRANSCRIPT

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1 GEORGE PARKER: You could replace every four every one of the 4,000 teachers we have. If you put 'em in a school district where you don't have the high quality professional development you need, if you don't have the resources you need, if you don't have a safe and orderly environment for them, don't have a good evaluation system for them, guess what's gonna happen? Two years from then, you're gonna wanna fire the next 4,000, because you didn't address the problem. And the real problem is, you ve got to have those components. JOHN MERROW: I M JOHN MERROW. IF YOU VE BEEN FOLLOWING OUR COVERAGE OF REFORM EFFORTS IN WASHINGTON, DC, YOU LL HAVE RECOGNIZED TEACHER UNION PRESIDENT GEORGE PARKER S VOICE. YOU LL ALSO KNOW THAT THE FORMER MATH TEACHER HAS BEEN LOCKED IN HIGHLY PUBLICIZED CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS WITH DC SCHOOLS CHANCELLOR MICHELLE RHEE FOR OVER SEVENTEEN MONTHS. WHAT STRUCK ME ABOUT THIS PARTICULAR INTERVIEW IS HOW COMFORTABLE GEORGE PARKER NOW IS, AFTER NEARLY TWO YEARS IN WHAT HAS TO HAVE BEEN A HOT SEAT. HE S FACED STRONG OPPOSITION FROM WITHIN HIS OWN UNION, EVEN WHILE HE S BEEN NEGOTIATING WITH RHEE. SHE S A MEDIA FAVORITE, WHILE HE S BEEN STEREOTYPED IN SOME CORNERS AS A UNION FOOT-DRAGGER. HE MAY HAVE BEEN AN AWKWARD INTERVIEW 17 MONTHS AGO---HE S NOT ANYMORE. YOU LL ENJOY THIS. GEORGE PARKER: I think we have an opportunity here for great failure or great success. I think if we get it right, we have an opportunity to set the stage and a model for the country, to talk about what kind of reform that is needed in urban school districts to make them successful in what kind of workin' relationship is needed between, uh, school districts in the union to make that happen. I think that, if we get it wrong, we can establish a format that's a nightmare for someone else to follow, and we can be just as ineffective in sayin', here is a great model of what the school district in the union shouldn't do in order to turn urban districts around. JOHN MERROW: MICHELLE RHEE HAS PROPOSED A CONTROVERSIAL NEW CONTRACT IN WHICH TEACHERS COULD CHOOSE TO TRADE TENURE FOR THE CHANCE TO EARN SIX-FIGURE SALARIES, CREATING A TWO-TIERED SALARY SYSTEM. BUT A RECENT SPATE OF SCHOOL STAFF FIRINGS, COUPLED WITH RHEE S COMMENTS TO THE MEDIA ABOUT INEFFECTIVE TEACHERS, ARE MAKING PARKER S 4,000 MEMBERS NERVOUS.

2 GEORGE PARKER: I think that, um... the level of fear, uh, and I'm out to get you culture that the chancellor initially, I think, developed, um... created an environment where the morale is so low, it would be very difficult to have folks truly buy in to where you want to go, and... and... and... and ride the train. Because, if folks are feeling that, look, they are just waiting to throw me off the train, then it's gonna be very difficult for me to ride it. JOHN MERROW: So, you don't have this... you don't have this two-tier, two... two different paths. That's not in your counter-proposal. GEORGE PARKER: No, our... our proposal does not include the two-tier system, or a system that in any way requires a teacher to give up tenure. Now, with that said, one of the things that we do realize is that, the concept of having, uh, some component of pay for performance, um... it... the day has come for that. Um... and... and we see that as being, uh, something that is additional to a very strong and solid base compensation system. The challenge is, how do you im... you know, implement a system that is fair and equitable, in terms of sayin', we are going to reward you if you're willing to do more, if you demonstrate a greater degree of success. So, we 06:04:34 still have those components within our proposal. But it is not, uh, presented in our proposal in a punitive manner, whereas you have to give up, uh, some of your rights in order to, uh, receive that. JOHN MERROW: The American Federation of Teachers, and President Randi Weingarten, are involved. GEORGE PARKER: Mm-hm. JOHN MERROW: Did you ask her to come in? GEORGE PARKER: Yeah, we talked. Yeah. Yeah, we... we needed some national support. We didn't have the kinda local resources to... to deal with this. We could've dealt with it on a local level if it'd remained locally. But, the fight for public opinion, the fight for, uh... putting forth the image of the union as it really is. I mean, I think we were losin' the battle, um... the pinnacle of that was when the chancellor appeared on Time... Time Magazine cover, with the broom, sweeping out, and et cetera. JOHN MERROW: IN DECEMBER 2008, MICHELLE RHEE MADE THE COVER OF TIME MAGAZINE. SHE WAS PHOTOGRAPHED IN AN EMPTY CLASSROOM, HOLDING A BROOM.

3 GEORGE PARKER: It painted a picture that was offensive to a lot of our members. Likewise, our members let us know that. They were very, very... uh, for the most part, upset about it. They felt that the symbol, um... represented the answer to solvin' D.C. public 06:07:16 schools is to just sweep everybody out. And... and... and, our teachers, uh, overwhelmingly are aware that there are so many other problems that... that exist, that has created, uh... some of the failures that exist in our school system, includin' lack of support, lack of resources, lack of 06:07:33 adequate professional development, lack of safe and discipline environments in which you tea... teach. // JOHN MERROW: Do you... do you think that cover, and... and maybe even other actions, uh, by the chancellor, somehow demonize teachers, or... paint teachers as... the pro... the problem? GEORGE PARKER: I don't know if the word demonize is... is... is the best word for it. I think, clearly, the, uh, language initially, uh, about firing, the attempt to, um... go after some form of tenure, uh, the initial move to... make central office employees atwill employees, uh, and consistently talkin' about firin' poor teachers, I think it... it gave the impression to teachers that, uh, the chancellor's solution to solvin' D.C. Public Schools' problems was all wrapped up into this little ball called fire everybody. I think that, uh... clearly, it created, uh, a... culture, of... of low morale, one that was the lowest that I've seen since I've been in D.C. public schools, and I've been here for 25 years. So I think that... clearly... if there's one negative side to the... the broomsweeping and the... the, uh... consistent talk about firing persons, I think one of the critical areas where it has had a negative impact is on morale. JOHN MERROW: You said, it's the lowest you've seen... GEORGE PARKER: Yes. JOHN MERROW:... in 25 years? GEORGE PARKER: Yes, yes. Without a doubt. JOHN MERROW: Now, we've heard from some teachers that they're basically afraid to speak out. That, um... just take... speak out against a principal or against the central administration, that there's a fear of retribution. Can you speak to that?

4 GEORGE PARKER: I think, again, it comes from... a lot of the talk, early on, about firing, firing, firing. And, that leads to fear. And a culture, a... uh, that... it doesn't matter how well I'm teaching. What matters more is whether or not my principal likes me. And so, that creates a fear that criteria other than your professionalism, your quality of teaching, will be used to determine whether or not, quote, unquote, someone gets you. And I think that's what creates the fear. I don't think any teacher, uh, who feels that he or she will be judged fairly would ever fear. I think there is a culture now that, the principal knows all. Knows what's best. And, therefore, whatever you feel you need to do to move the school forward, whether it's right or wrong, do it. JOHN MERROW: I was looking at some scores at one school today, and they looked a lot better. And I... you hear these... stories, anecdotal, well, it's... things are better here, things are better there. And I wonder, um... you know, Michelle Rhee is well into her second year. Um... are... are schools better today than they were when Michelle Rhee arrived? Is the education of kids here better? GEORGE PARKER: I think you have to... to... to make that decision based on specific categories. I think, uh, clearly, test scores last summer were pretty good, based on previous test scores. Now, does that say that all of the areas that need to be put in place to make a great school system have been put in place? No. Ha... is professional development where it needs to be? No. Is safety and discipline where it needs to be? No. Are equity in classroom resources where it's supposed... where they supposed to be? No. I think, clearly, special education... got worst, temporarily. I... I think that... now that they've changed, I think that, um... the person, DCS person who is now in charge of special education, seems to be a lot more competent and able to move things forward. But I believe, for a moment there, special education actually got worst. Um... but that's just one phase. So I think, it's very dangerous to just use a p... uh, a broad brush and just say things are worst or better. There are certain categories that they may be better. There are certain categories where they may be worse. I think that, clearly, um... there might have been too much too soon, in terms of tryin' to t... create too much change too soon. I think, initially, the public was locked into the, okay, let's fire 'em. That'll create change. But I think folks are finally beginning to see, well, if we really gonna have a great school system, we got to address all of the issues. JOHN MERROW: Is the school system worse off today than it was when Michelle Rhee arrived? GEORGE PARKER: Oh, I think it depends upon who you ask.

5 JOHN MERROW: I'm askin' you. LEADERSHIP: A CHALLENGING COURSE GEORGE PARKER: Mmm. You know, I would not want to answer that question right now. I think that, at this point, it's different. And I would like to leave it at that. I think, evaluating, uh, worst off, I would need a lot more data on key things, in terms of student successes and et cetera. Uh, I can say at this point, it's different. JOHN MERROW: TO HEAR WHAT MICHELLE RHEE HAS TO SAY ABOUT THE NEGOTIATIONS AND THAT TIME MAGAZINE COVER VISIT OUR WEBSITE, I M JOHN MERROW. THANKS FOR LISTENING. THIS PODCAST WAS MADE POSSIBLE WITH THE GENEROUS SUPPORT OF THE ANNENBERG, GATES, WALLACE AND HEWLETT FOUNDATIONS. WE APPRECIATE THEIR SUPPORT. IT WAS PRODUCED BY SELLY THIAM AND JANE RENAUD. I M JOHN MERROW. THANKS FOR LISTENING.

!EADERS'IP: A,'A!!E-.I-.,O0RSE Michelle Rhee in Washington, D.,. Podcast Aitle: Media Darling May 3, 2009 ARA-S,RIPA

!EADERS'IP: A,'A!!E-.I-.,O0RSE Michelle Rhee in Washington, D.,. Podcast Aitle: Media Darling May 3, 2009 ARA-S,RIPA MICHELLE RHEE: So, a lot of the... things that were coming out in the press were sort of saying, you know, "Rhee wants to fire people. It's all about firing people." And I don't think that it was a comprehensive