(TV2): Breivik Trial Transcript: Day 20: Utoya Massacre Testimony:

Transcription

1 (TV2): Breivik Trial Transcript: Day 20: Utoya Massacre Testimony: Survivors: Ingvild Leren Stensrud (17) Anon Male (18) Glenn Martin Waldenstrøm (20) Anon Woman (22) Geir Lippestad: Broadcast of Expert Witnesses Oslo District Court: #: MED May 2012 Breivik Report/TV2.NO Ingvild Leren Stensrud (17): was on the way to the information building when she heard the first shot and found people running up the hill. She ran to the Cafebuilding and hid in the Little Hall behind the piano with others. She was shot twice: once in the left knee and once in the left shoulder. She believes she survived cause Breivik thought she was dead. Anon Male (18): was at an information meeting about the Oslo bomb in the Cafe building; when they heard gills screaming and yelling and gun shots. He was shot in the Little Hall in his left foot. Glenn Martin Waldenstrøm (20): was in the cafebuilding when he heard the bangs and thought it was a bad joke. He was shot in the face in the Little Hall and bled very badly. Anon Woman (22): was in the Cafebuilding about the Oslo bomb information meeting. She was shot in the foot. Geir Lippestad: Regarding the importance of consistency and fairness related to the public broadcast of Expert Witnesses

2 8:51 The minutes of the trial against Anders Breivik Behring continues. 8:52 Wednesday, five surviving to tell the court about their experiences on Utøya. 8:53 Three of them do not want their name is mentioned. 8:54 All five were in the Café building at Utøya where Breivik killed 13 people. 8:55 The first to take the witness stand, is Ingvild Leren Stensrud (17). 8:56 She hid behind a piano in the little hall. 8:57 Breivik shot anyone who hid behind the piano. Ingvild was shot twice in the left knee and left shoulder. 8:58 She has previously said that she believes she survived because the perpetrator thought she was dead. 9:00 Also 22 year old Ina Rangone Libak hid behind the piano. Tuesday she told the court how she was shot four times. Yet she was right to smile. 9:01 Breivik are in place in Courtroom 250 9:01 The court is set. 9:02 Ingvild exchanger Stensrud takes place in the courtroom. 9:04 Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh management questioning of 17-year-old. 9:04 Stensrud: - When I heard the first shot, I was on the way to the information building. 9:05 - I thought it was something completely different, so I stood and looked down the hill. I saw that others ran out of the house and up the hill, so I ran with them. 9:05 Stensrud said that she ran down the hall in the café building and into the little hall.

3 9:05 It was full of people there, says Stensrud. 9:06 - There was a boy who stood in the door and held people back so they would not run out of my tent. 9:06 - I was behind him and saw people get shot. 9:06 Stensrud: - It was only when it dawned on me what happened. 9:07 - People started to lie down on the floor and pressed into the corner on the other side of the room. 9:07 Stensrud: - When the shooting began inside the room, fled people everywhere. 9:07 Engh: - You are facing the door to the tent and see people get shot. What do you do next? 9:08 Stensrud: - We put ourselves down on the floor, and I move to a corner. 9:08 Stensrud hid behind the piano. 9:08 There was no one around she recognized. 9:09 - Everything goes very fast, says Stensrud. 9:09 - I understand that shooting coming from the other door into the corridor. 9:09 - I'm trying to come up with away from the door and stood behind two pieces. They get shot and fall on me. 9:10 - When I lie on the floor, I get hit in the left thigh. 9:10 Stensrud: - We hear the shooting stops and a weapon is being charged for. Then the shots, not so fast, it's as if some aims. I get a stray bullet in the shoulder. 9:11 She looked very small, but as a black figure holding a weapon. 9:11 Stensrud says she concentrates to lie completely still. The next thing she remembers, the sounds from other people in the building and shout from the tent.

4 9:12 - I think that there are some who cry out messages to each other. 9:12 - Now I think that it sounded like fighting words or shouting. 9:13 Stensrud initially thought there were several perpetrators and that they shouted messages to each other. Since she now knows that only one person, she thinks that it sounded like fighting words or shouting. 9:13 Engh: - You go in a corner and heard shots and someone falls over you. Did you see that they were shot? 9:13 Stensrud: - No, everything went very fast. Suddenly, I was lying on the floor. 9:14 Stensrud did not recognize those who fell on her. 9:14 Engh: - After you fall, continued the shots then? 9:14 Stensrud: - Yes. It was after I fell that I was hit in the thigh. 9:14 She was also shot in the shoulder. 9:15 Stensrud do not know if those around her were alive or dead. 9:15 - I concentrated only to lie still and breathe very easily. 9:15 She thought that this is not a hostage situation, here they will kill. 9:16 - It was very terrible seconds. At first I thought it was over, but then I heard that he charged on. 9:16 Stensrud do not remember the shots that fell in the Great Hall. 9:17 Stensrud: - As I sit up a little and look around. I see two that are alive. We talk together and ask us to find another place to hide. But we are damaged and have no other option, so we are still waiting for the police. 9:18 She takes the phone to a friend. She realizes that her friend is dead. 9:19 - When I call my parents. First I try the emergency number, but never comes through. Then I call my mother. I do not speak very loudly. We have a very short

5 conversation. 9:19 - I say I'm shot, but they perceive not quite what I say. I put on quite quickly. 9:19 Stensrud trying to send the message and call the emergency number. The message comes through. 9:20 One that I know, rings. Thank God you are alive, he said. I say it is Ingvild, she who owns the phone is dead. 9:21 - Eventually, the phone starts to ring. It's my mom on the display, and when I put away the phone. 9:21 Many phones will ring the Café building. 9:22 She speaks with the others who have survived in Little Hall. 9:22 - The first time I sit up and look around, I think that this will not I see, so I lay me down again. When it starts to get quiet, I sit up and talk to the others. 9:23 Stensrud said that they were three survivors who talked. 9:23 She knew little about the injuries she had sustained. She was afraid that it would bleed too much. 9:23 - I said to one another that if I pass out, you must say that I live. I thought that they came to take the pulse of all. 9:23 He replied that I was not so very pale. 9:24 Stensrud: - When it's been quite a while, we dare to talk. We are waiting for the police. 9:25 - As we hear that there be someone in the house and shouting police. 9:25 At first she is afraid that the perpetrator will come back, but as time passes she feels safer. 9:25 - We call for the police, they will come and pick us up. 9:26 - The police were heavily armed.

6 9:26 Stensrud: - Police respond to us. They are inside the room and looks around but does not care so much about us. Survivors come out of the toilets. 9:27 - When the police see him, what's up with your hands. They ensure the place. 9:27 As borne out Ingvild. She sends a message to parents from another phone. 9:27 Police connects the wounds to stop bleeding. 9:28 She placed in a car to be driven to the pier. The AUF is being handcuffed and put in the car. 9:28 On the quay there are paramedics. She is morphine. 9:29 - All the schoolhouse comes while I'm on the pier. Then I think it's certainly a lot of living, says Stensrud. 9:29 - I had almost never in pain. It was like being beaten, in a way. The most painful was to be affixed to the stop the bleeding in the thigh. 9:29 Stensrud remembers almost nothing of the boat trip across to the mainland. 9:30 She started asking for her sister, who was also on Utøya. 9:30 Stensrud is operated at Bærum hospital during the evening. 9:30 At the hospital she was told that her sister was alive. 9:31 After staying at Bærum hospital, transported her to Skien hospital and stays there for a week. 9:31 She has a little ringing in the ears after the incident, but otherwise little ailments. 9:32 Stensrud goes to school. It's fine, she says. 9:32 Mentally, there have been some difficult things. - It has been hard at AUF events, large events where people walk around and talk, says Stensrud. 9:33 Defender Lippestad have any questions for the witness.

7 9:33 Lippestad: - Did you hear anything that was said in Minor Hall? 9:34 Stensrud: - No. During the rapid firing, I heard sound from the others shouted. During the slow-firing were those who lived, completely still. 9:34 She did not hear anything from the perpetrator. 9:34 Lippestad ask Stensrud deepen the cries of my tent. 9:35 - It sounded as if people were planning where to move on. I did not hear the words I knew, so I thought maybe they were talking a language I did not understand. It was logical that there were several. 9:36 Lawyer asks Hallgren Stensrud describe some of the others she saw in the Café building. 9:37 Stensrud said if she recognized the little hall. 9:38 - It seemed as if they had died away, says Stensrud. 9:38 Lawyer Larsen conveys a question from the family of one who was killed in the Great Hall. 9:39 Stensrud explained that she did not remember much of the runners from the Great Hall. She hears steps perpetrator enters the Great Hall, and some cry. 9:39 Stensrud finish the explanation. 9:40 Next witness is an 18 year old man. 9:41 Also he was in Little Hall. He was shot in the left foot. 9:42 Engh prosecutor asking the questions to the witness. 9:43 The witness said that he was an information meeting in the café building. Everything was normal until it got a bunch of girls screaming and yelling.

8 9:44 The witness shows how the building he was with someone else. It was in the dining room at Café building. 9:44 They ran after the girls to hear what happened. They said that there are some on the island to shoot. 9:44 - So we hear a bang. 9:45 The witness moves to Little Hall along with many others. They hear the bang outside. 9:45 A friend throws him and himself on the floor. They are in shock. 9:46 His friend knew pretty early that it is politically motivated violence. - We are AUF, there can be no other reason, said his friend. 9:46 Breivik comes in and begins to shoot. There is complete panic. 9:46 He ends up in a corner. 9:47 - He continues to shoot at the crowd. As he charged, we thought to set up a barricade. There was a piano and a table, we overturned. 9:47 - He stands in the middle of the room and shoot down on us. My immediate reaction was to throw me down and play dead. 9:48 - We were first. While he was shot, we threw ourselves down. 9:48 - I did not notice until afterwards that I was hit in the arm and foot. 9:49 The witness saw that another was shot several times in the body and finally the head. 9:49 - It seemed as if he shot wildly into the crowd. 9:50 - I played dead and treating the eyes. Finally, I thought it was just me and a friend who was left alive. But he saw (the friend) and shot him several times. When I was behind him. 9:52 He heard that the perpetrator charged for.

9 9:52 He realized that another lying across his legs, was dead. 9:53 Engh asked about the way the shots were fired on. 9:54 - After that he charged on, he went into the great hall and continued shooting there. I lay back and pinched his eyes and held my peace, says the witness. 9:54 He heard that the perpetrator moved further out in time. 9:54 He says Breivik went through a time, into the small hall and out the same way he came. 9:55 The witness saw nothing of what happened in the Great Hall. 9:55 Engh: - What kind of injuries did you have? 9:55 - I had bleeding from the leg, arm was swollen. I saw that I was hit in the arm. 9:56 He tried to keep his leg was crushed when he felt a little safer. 9:56 - I had pretty severe pain. 9:56 - After he had left the building, I observe that Ingvild alive. She asks if we should get out. I say we should stay and keep us quiet. 9:57 Another who is alive, bleeding in the very face and neck. 9:57 - I was sure he would bleed to death before we could help. He could hardly talk. 9:57 - We were lying there. It was almost a pool of blood as I lay in it. 9:58 - Blood may be hot at first but it gets cold later. So I lay and froze very, explained the witness. 9:58 Engh: - Do you remember what you thought? 9:59 - The varied widely. I thought something as absurd as that favorite shirt was ruined. So I had serious thoughts about what this would do to us as a nation.

10 9:59 He quickly joined the perpetrator with a right extreme. 10:00 - All traitors since the Second World War has been the extreme right, said the witness. Breivik smiled when the witness said this. 10:00 The witness did not hear that the perpetrator spoke. 10:01 The witness stayed pretty long in the Minor Hall. 10:01 Half an hour after the shots, found Ingvild a phone. The witness used the phone to call his mother. 10:02 After police arrived, they hoped to get off the island quickly as possible. 10:02 - I remember there was a AUF is entering the room. He got all lasersiktene on. 10:03 - I seem to remember that it took a long time to secure the place. We were helped out in the hallway that runs between the rooms and sat there until we could get transport to the wharf. 10:04 The witness was taken to the wharf and taken to the mainland. 10:04 He does not believe he came to the hospital until the time was 23 10:05 The witness was in the hospital for eleven days. 10:06 Today, the damage is still very painful. Especially the foot, says 18-year-old. 10:06 Engh: - Do you have pain all the time? 10:06 The witness: - Almost all the time. Doctors will not say anything until it's been a year. 10:07 He can not go very long before he has to pause or take analgesics. 10:09 The injuries have made it difficult to work. He has not worked since. 10:10 He is not happy with how it has gone to school. The school has taken several steps, but he is unhappy with the results.

11 10:10 Engh finish prosecution questions. 10:10 Defender Bæra have any questions about Breivik's conduct. 10:11 The witness said that the perpetrator did not say anything in Little Hall. 10:11 The witness said that the perpetrator charged on very quietly. 10:12 - It was raining really, and when the rain hit the concrete stairs outside, overdøvde much of the sound. 10:13 Aid lawyer asks how it goes in everyday life. 10:13 The witness tells very little profit. He does not have the energy to pursue things he wants to do. 10:14 About the future, he says that he first will be finished with exams. - It's the closest I have a long-term goals. 10:14 Lawyer Larsen asks about the conversation the witness had with his friend that this was all about politically motivated violence. 10:15 The witness has finished his explanation. 10:15 Court takes break to :24 One of the witnesses who would testify today, was moved to 29 of May. Thus remaining two witness statements Wednesday. 10:37 Next witness who will testify, is Glenn Martin Waldenstrøm (20). 10:38 He escaped the massacre at Little Hall with his life, like the two who testified earlier in the day. 10:39 Waldenstrøm was shot in the face. The previous witness testified that he did not believe Walde power would survive until they got help because he was bleeding so much. 10:40 The last witness who testified, a 18-year-old man, believed the perpetrator

12 seemed like a person who was "emotionally out of tune." 10:45 Breivik arrive in the courtroom, and exchanges a few words with his defense Geir Lippestad. 10:45 The judges are in place. negotiations continue. 10:46 Waldenstrom's counsel requesting that Breivik leave the courtroom before the diploma. 10:46 The witness has dreaded the very explanation. Aid lawyer believes it will affect the explanation of the accused being present. 10:47 There are no objections to the petition, Breivik must follow the diploma from an adjoining room. 10:47 Waldenstrøm takes the witness stand. 10:49 Inga Bejer Engh questions on behalf of prosecutors. 10:50 Waldenstrøm: - I was in a time in the cafe building with another. We heard the bang and thought it was a very bad joke. 10:50 - Eventually, there were more races, and we realized that something was not right. We ran the Little Room. 10:51 Waldenstrøm current shows on the court where he was and how he moved. 10:51 He followed a girl in the Little Room. 10:51 He does not get in touch with the girl, she panicked. 10:52 Waldenstrøm shows the hall in Lille he was. 10:52 - I turn to and see the man come walking up the stairs (the entrance). 10:53 - He runs very quietly. He looks confused. 10:53 Waldenstrøm: - I got eye contact with him. He looked very much and he looked very confused.

13 10:53 - He came into the room and lifted the gun. I take hold of the girl and drag her with me on the floor. 10:54 Waldenstrøm: - I can not remember what happens before I get hit. 10:55 Waldenstrøm: - As I get hit, I hear nothing but the very high whistling. When I came to myself, it was very quiet. I heard someone said "do not shoot, do not shoot", and then there was another shot. 10:55 Waldenstrøm: - As soon as I came to myself, I knew that it was running something out of my neck. 10:56 He tried to seal the wound with your index finger. Waldenstrøm was shot in the face. 10:56 He made contact with Ingvild Leren Stensrud. 10:57 Waldenstrom's trying to call but the phone hung up and began to turn. He was afraid that the perpetrator would hear him and beat of the phone until the battery fell out. 10:57 The witness seemed to hear that the perpetrator entered the building. 10:57 - I remember that I held my breath and lay down on the floor with a gunshot wound down. 10:58 - I did not dare to breathe again until I heard that he was out. 10:58 Waldenstrøm: - I had a feeling that he was back in Little Hall. 10:59 - I talked a little bit more with Ingvild, as well as I could. I remember that I lifted my head up and tried to wipe away the blood. 10:59 Waldenstrøm saw his own reflection and thought that the eye was completely destroyed. 11:00 He was told by Ingvild that her friend was dead. 11:00 He had known the girl since he was a member of AUF and had tried to protect her.

14 11:01 Engh ask about when he heard the first shots. 11:01 Waldenstrøm do not remember much before he was hit. Then he was gone for a while. 11:02 Waldenstrøm: - I understood that there were dead people around me. I could not take it inside me, I was too busy to keep myself alive. 11:02 He heard a shot from the next room and several shots from the outside. 11:02 Engh: - Did you hear voices? 11:02 Waldenstrøm: - I did not hear anything. 11:03 He said he had no particular pain. 11:03 Engh asks shot damage. 11:03 Engh: - When you were there, do you remember what you thought? 11:04 Waldenstrøm: - I thought that my family has gone through too much already, so I can not let them lose me now. 11:04 Eventually, he was pretty blunt, but moving the foot so police would know that he was alive. 11:04 He is helped up out in the hallway, where he is sitting on a crate. 11:05 Waldenstrøm comes that he must have given notice to the family that he is alive. 11:05 He can not bear to say the number. 11:05 He spit blood on the floor and write the number in the blood. 11:06 Because of gunshot injury he could not talk much. 11:07 Waldenstrøm was taken to the pier. 11:07 He laid on a stretcher and taken over with a friend. Waldenstrøm describes the boat as small and red.

15 11:08 The colleague covering him with clothes, he looks cold out. 11:08 On the quay on the mainland, he relaxed in the country. An ambulance carrying him to a helicopter. 11:09 In the helicopter, he told that he shall at Ullevaal. 11:10 After coming to the emergency room, he can not remember much on a couple of days. 11:10 Engh Prosecutors ask for damages. 11:11 Waldenstrøm tells of extensive damage in the face and damage to the eye. He has about ten per cent sight in one eye. 11:12 Waldenstrøm says that he has double vision. - It's worse when I'm tired. I get tired of it faster and. It is not very skewed, but enough that it is a pain. 11:12 The witness has been 90 percent sick pretty much all the time since terroangrepet. 11:12 Engh: - Will you tell how you feel? 11:13 Waldenstrøm: - It goes up and down. I tire very quickly and is very much shorter fuse. 11:13 He also struggles with guilt. 11:13 He thinks that there was nothing he could do. 11:14 Engh: - You said that when the defendant came into the room, you perceived him as confused. Is there anything else on his face, you bet your mark? 11:14 Waldenstrøm: - As a mixture of joy and anger. Her face looked very distorted. He looked angry into the forehead area, and then he smiled at the same time. 11:15 Engh: - So you saw him smile? 11:15 Waldenstrøm: - Yes.

16 11:15 His mouth was tight at the same time, he explains. 11:15 Engh is finished with their questions. 11:15 Defender Lippestad questions to the witness. 11:16 Lippestad asks how Breivik behaved in the building. 11:16 Waldenstrøm explains that he saw the perpetrator when he came into the room. 11:16 The witness can not remember the perpetrator said something. 11:17 Lippestad: - Did you hear any sounds after he had left the room? 11:17 Waldenstrøm: - Not more than hype. 11:17 Aid lawyer asks what Waldenstrom so after he was helped into the hall in the café building. 11:18 Waldenstrøm tells of a person who helped him after the shooting. 11:19 Waldenstrøm said he was afraid of drowning in his own blood during the boat trip. 11:20 Aid lawyer asks about the situation when he woke up at Ullevaal. He lay in a coma for two days. 11:20 Waldenstrøm: - The first thing I do is to apologize that I was unable to rescue (her friend). 11:21 Waldenstrøm tells of a trip to the Cathedral to lay down flowers. 11:21 He put down the flowers by the image of her friend who died in Little Hall. 11:22 The witness was about to start a folk high school last fall. 11:23 Aid lawyer asks mood. 11:24 Waldenstrøm says that the mood swings fast. He has also been very

17 frightened at times. 11:25 Waldenstrom get questions from counsel if there is anything he wants to add. - When I sat in your office and read through the interviews to Breivik, he told about a person who had been lying on the floor that had been bleeding very heavily from his neck. I got a very strong sense of victory and thought "ha, I fooled you." 11:26 Waldenstrom's finished with his explanation. 11:26 Court takes break to :27 The trial of Anders Breivik Behring resumed a few minutes. 12:28 The court shall hear the testimony of a 22-yearold woman who was shot in the foot in Café building. 12:28 The woman does not want her name exposed in connection with the explanation. 12:29 During previous testimony to the defendant leave the courtroom. 12:29 He followed testimony from an adjoining room. 12:30 It was the second time this week that a witness asked that Breivik would not be in the audience during the explanation. 12:30 The judges arrive in the courtroom. 12:30 The negotiations continue. 12:31 The witness takes place in the witness box. 12:32 Breivik is present in the courtroom during today's final explanation. 12:32 Prosecutors Inga Bejer Engh ask questions to the witness. 12:32 The witness: - We had heard about the explosions in Oslo. We did not know there was a bomb.

18 12:33 The witness called her parents to hear that all was well with them. Afterwards she went to an information meeting in the Great Hall of Café building. She was to charge the phone and she would watch the news along with several others. 12:34 A friend came over, he was very upset and said that there had been a car bomb. 12:34 They went in the dining room, where she comforted his friend. 12:34 The witness went to the Great Hall to find his brother. When she heard the bang. 12:35 The witness shows how right she was. 12:36 The witness had panicked because she did not find his brother. She did not think it was shooting, but would find his brother to calm him. 12:36 She heard several bangs and look out the window towards the tent. 12:36 - When I see a person in police uniform standing and shooting. 12:36 - People panic, throw down on the floor. I'm trying to find my brother. 12:37 She is little room and stands in the doorway when she gets shot in the foot. 12:37 - I do not think I'm shot. I trod I was struck with a knife or something, it felt like a pressure. 12:38 The witness does not come out of the door and jumps out of a window in the dining room. She runs down a slope. 12:38 The prosecutor brings up a map on the screen so the court can see where the witness was located. 12:39 The witness does not remember exactly what happened, but told others that she was shot. 12:39 She ran down to the water and ended up not far from the pump house. 12:39 She explains who she was with. His friends joined the bone.

19 12:39 - Many had panicked, but it was not me. I was calm and thought of my little brother. 12:40 - Minutes felt like an eternity. 12:40 The witness saw MS Thorbjorn leave Utøya. They heard several shots and runs, but fails for the bone is broken thighbone. 12:40 Friends carry her, but the shots coming closer and closer. 12:40 - I pulled the hood over his head and laid me down to play dead. 12:41 The witness did not want others to die because they carried her. 12:41 - I hear him come to the right of me. It fired and people screaming. 12:41 She hears that the perpetrator charges the weapon and shoot at people in the water. 12:42 The witness kept his eyes again to play dead, but think she has opened her eyes slightly. She saw the perpetrator five to ten meters away. 12:42 - Had he turned, he had seen me. 12:42 - I had put in a very uncomfortable position to make it look as if I was dead. 12:43 She hopes that the culprits will soon be taking his own life. 12:43 The witness was very scared. - I hope that if he hit me, it should go fast. 12:43 She gets scared when she sees boats, for she sees that there are no police. She feels that the police never come. 12:44 A stretcher is approaching, but she does not dare to cry. She waves to them. The boat adds, a boy comes and carries her to the boat. 12:44 - It is only then it starts to hurt. 12:44 She must rest on the deck. They will not see her down in the boat because of the damaged bone.

20 12:45 They pick up several injured children. 12:45 As they drove to landsida. The witness was taken care of. 12:45 Some said that it could be a bomb in the perpetrator's car. 12:45 She came in an ambulance and was taken to hospital. 12:46 Engh asked about the situation in the Great Hall. 12:46 - He was always very quiet. Very calculating, says testified Breivik's behavior when she saw him through the window from the Café building. 12:47 Engh ask the witness's brother. 12:47 He had been hiding in a cave, says the witness. 12:47 Engh ask about injuries. 12:48 - I will have surgery this fall. Mostly it goes very well, but I have some problems with a disc in the right leg. 12:48 Today she is inhibited. She can not jog, so she normally would. 12:49 The witness says she feels very good. Have received good help from a psychologist after the incident. 12:50 The witness tells us about some of the others she talked to during the shooting. 12:50 Lawyer Larsen has questions for the witness. 12:51 Larsen represents the parents of one of the dead who testified were in contact with. 12:51 Larsen ask more about the situation in the Great Hall. 12:52 The witness answered that she left the Great Hall pretty quickly. 12:52 No more questions for the witness.

21 12:52 Judge Arntzen says one record remaining on the current program. 12:53 The question of broadcasting of Breivik's comments. 12:53 The court pauses until at 13 13:02 The negotiations continue. 13:02 Judge Arntzen out the word. 13:03 The question is whether to allow broadcasting of witnesses and experts, with or without Breivik's comments, if any, explains Arntzen. 13:03 Arntzen points out a post Harald Stanghelle held on behalf of the media on Monday. 13:04 The judge gives the word to defend Geir Lippestad. 13:04 Lippestad: Starts with arguments in favor of maximum openness. 13:05 - Genrelt I want to show the contradiction, which is an important legal principle. 13:05 If you allow the broadcast of expert witnesses, it is important that the defendant's comments can be broadcast, argues Lippestad. 13:06 If we allow the broadcast of experts, one must be consistent, says Lippestad. 13:07 Lippestad also points to comments defendants have made so far. 13:07 - In light of the horrific actions are not comments uadekvate or particularly offensive. 13:08 The judge asks whether one can expect short comments from the accused allowed the broadcast. 13:08 Lippestad says he does not expect anything else.

22 13:08 Lippestad passes to the actual witnesses. When it comes to police witnesses, this faktabserte witnesses. Comments on the facts should be broadcast, said the defender. 13:09 - When it comes to other expert witnesses, they describe a political direction or reality. They will also describe what they consider Breivik's attitudes and ideas. 13:09 - If this is to be broadcast, it is unreasonable unless the accused should be heard. 13:10 When it comes to the medical experts believe Lippestad it is especially worrisome if not Breivik will get this comment on the experts to be broadcast. 13:10 The judge has a question for Lippestad. 13:10 Arntzen ask objectivity considerations take precedence over transparency principle. 13:11 Lippestad: - Our main point is that you should allow broadcasting. If it is not allowed, we believe neither the explanations or comments should be broadcast. 13:11 Equal treatment is most important, says Lippestad. 13:12 Prosecutors Engh takes the word. 13:12 Engh: - We believe the arguments used to deny broadcast of his explanation must apply with the same strength now. 13:12 Engh is afraid that the explanation will be affected by broadcasting. 13:13 Grassland is also not agree with the defense 'assertion contradiction. 13:13 - It is not those who are watching TV to decide this matter, it is the right to decide the case. It has no connection with contradiction to do this will be disseminated. 13:14 Engh also believes the openness of the trial is handled through the large press turnout. 13:14 Breivik discuss with Lippestad Engh while talking to the court.

23 13:14 Engh alerts a note about a child psychiatrist who is called up. 13:15 Lawyer Hallgren declare that their side supports the prosecutor's opinion. 13:15 The aid lawyers fear that Breivik's statements can be stained if it is allowed broadcasting. 13:16 Aid lawyers do not want broadcast. 13:16 Concern for the affected and survivors, it is normative for aid lawyers. 13:17 Lippestad has a line when it comes to contradiction. He believes one can not see so narrowly on the contradiction that the prosecutor argues. 13:17 - The public debate in this context must be seen as important. It may be significant. 13:18 Breivik is of the opinion that as much as possible to broadcast even if his comments are not being broadcast, said Lippestad. 13:19 Arntzen: The Court aims to reach a decision within the next week. 13:20 Breivik will make a comment. - I do not think there is a danger that something sensitive to broadcast. I think the media has a tight grip on what to broadcast and not, said the defendants. 13:20 The court is adjourned. 13:21 Negotiations continue on Monday 21 May at 9»»»» [TV2]