Interview with Mildred Pooler Miscall

Transcription

1 Interview with Mildred Pooler Miscall AS: Sure. MM: Ok. Interviewer: Amy Stevens Interviewee: Mildred Miscall January 26th, 2006 Eastern Fine Paper Oral History Project [Begin Interview, Begin Track 1-5:03] Amy Stevens: and I ll start by saying; this is Amy Stevens and it s January 26th, 2006 and we re at the home of Mildred Miscall and this is in Sandy Point, Maine which is near, part of Stockton Springs and I ll just have you say hello Ms. Miscall so I can test your mic. Mildred Miscall: Oh just to say hello AS: Just to start out, ok, everything looks good so I wanted to ask you first, how did you hear about our project? MM: I was listening to the news on Channel 10 AS: Oh wonderful and you saw our little piece. MM: Yes and then a neighbor went on the internet I guess it was or and got your name and phone number and the whole works. AS: Oh great. AS: Well we are so glad to hear from you. AS: Now can you tell me a little bit about growing up in South Brewer? MM: Well let me see, this is my birthday by the way. AS: It is, happy birthday. MM: Yes, yes, yes you want to know how old I am? AS: I would love to.

2 MM: 91 AS: You are? MM: Yes I am AS: You don t look a day over 60. MM: I am. I m 91 today and I grew up, so you see I was born in 1915 in South Brewer. AS: Wow, that s great. MM: Right on Main Street in South Brewer. MM: and all the years I was growing up actually it was Eastern Manufacturing Company then and it, your whole life revolved around that paper mill because just about every man I think in the little town worked at the Eastern Manufacturing Company. And it was just part of our life. Things I can remember about it, one of my first memories of Eastern Manufacturing was a Christmas party they gave for the families, the employees and their families and every child received a big bag of candy. AS: Really? MM: and that was special in those days. AS: I bet. MM: That would have been in the, oh very, maybe in the late, probably the early 20s but it could have even been you know at the end of say 1919 but probably 1920, probably around when I would be four or five. AS: So your father worked in the mill? MM: My father worked in the office. I think he, I couldn t tell you exactly what he was, you know what he did but he was in the maintenance department and he took care of, the ships when they came in with supplies, see they come in from Sweden and places like that and I think they brought in the you know, sulfite. AS: oh ok. MM: What they called sulfite. Oh and another, do you want to know something that they used to do, that was during prohibition days in our country and the captain was allowed to give those that took care of him while he was there, whiskey. AS: Really. MM: And they had to break the seal on it before they could give it away and my father was in charge of going onboard ship and I presume getting their paper, what they called I suppose the [bill the lady] and things like that and they always gave him whiskey, enough to give the other help you know. AS: Really, that s interesting. MM: Yes, that was something different because then it was prohibition time and you couldn t buy it. Well you know that. AS: Right, so he was bringing it over from Sweden or from where ever he came? MM: Yes, they were allowed to have so much on the ship you know and apparently so much for who ever was

3 helping them. That was one of the things that I remember about the mill and we children, even then you didn t have the restrictions you have today of course about going in places, a business. We could go in and out, see our father at work and they always gave us paper to bring home. AS: Oh to draw on or to write on? MM: Oh yes they had what, and I think they still have it in paper mills, what they called broke boxes and that was for rejects, paper rejects. MM: And they d be tablets with lines you know and then writing paper and you could have all you could carry. AS: Oh wow. MM: You d take that home. AS: Oh that must have been great as a kid. MM: Yes it was and they made beautiful writing paper. It was what they called linen weave and it had their watermark on it. The big E, has anyone told you that? AS: I ve seen it on the side of the truck I think. [End Track 1, Begin Track 2] AS: In a photo MM: Well that was in the paper and the paper looked just like linen because it was made on linen in those days, on real linen. AS: So really high quality. MM: Oh yes. It was beautiful paper and they had, oh it would be huge sheets of linen that was on the paper, see that was right on the paper machines. That s how they got that linen weave. AS: Oh ok. MM: And they, I don t know, I imagine the employees could buy it or they were given it when it was finally used, finished as far as making paper went. And the women used to clean that out. It would be full of starch and they would bleach it and clean it all up. Then they would dye it to make clothing. AS: Really. MM: Yes and it was what we called, I don t know if you know about handkerchief linen. MM: That was a real, fine, silky linen and it was, so you see that would make it a big part of our lives AS: Yes, absolutely. So there was a lot of recycling from things at the mill to take home? MM: Oh yes, nothing used to be wasted. Yes the paper that, I think a lot of that broke, some of it went back into the machines, you know into the finished but I remember that. I remember, I remember people, the women making clothing out of it. AS: Wow.

4 MM: And they d make little girls beautiful dresses because see they would dye it once they got it all bleached and they d dye it the different colors. AS: Now did you ever have a dress made out of that? MM: I don t remember. I might have. I might have, you know because so many of our clothing was homemade then and what else. What would you like to know? AS: Well did you have any other family that worked at the mill? MM: Oh well the whole town. AS: Really. MM: Yes, I have a lot of cousins. Actually they were my fathers cousins you know a lot of them were his age, you know a few years this way and that. We called them all Aunts and their husbands all worked at the paper mill. AS: Really? AS: What was your father s name? MM: Pooler. P-O-O-L-E-R. AS: Ok, and his first name was? MM: Waldo. AS: Waldo. AS: All right. I ve seen some photos of Pooler s but most of them are from the 1950s so I thought they would be a relation or not. MM: Yes, oh that would be probably Victor Pooler, some of his might work there. AS: Yes. Is he a relation of yours? MM: No but he lived right, we lived right near each other. AS: Isn t that funny. MM: Isn t that something, yes and most of his, he had one boy that was the same age as one of my younger brothers. I can t remember all there names but the oldest boy was Victor. MM: I think they had one daughter Marilyn and Ronald, there was a Ronald and one of them at least must have worked at the paper mill. AS: Oh I m sure. I ve seen pictures of Victor Pooler. MM: Oh yes. AS: And probably a lot of his children and his relatives as well.

5 MM: Yes and then there was Ed Pooler that worked at the paper mill. MM: And he was another neighbor, they were all neighbors. How about the name Artelle Palmer. AS: I haven t come across that one. MM: you have come across a Palmer? AS: No, nope but there may, you know we only have pictures that are donated to us from some of the families. MM: Oh yes. When I find that picture I ll get a copy. It s a picture of my father and all the maintenance, the office workers. I guess it s what they called, I can t remember what they called that but they are all in the office and there s even a girl. AS: Oh really. MM: Yes, and she was from Bangor. Her name was Milligan. AS: I was going to ask you if many women worked at the mill during that time. MM: Oh yes, quite a few. I think a lot of them worked, did office work. Yes, I don t know if they worked in the mill. I suppose some of them worked in the mill. There were the [Verricose]. One of them worked in the mill. She just died a few years ago. AS: Oh really. MM: And I think Ruth Bennett worked there and there was a Maryanne. I can t think of her married name. She was a Pooler originally and she was in the Edward Pooler family. MM: Almost every family had someone that worked there. AS: Did you have any women in your family that worked at the mill? MM: No. AS: No. MM: We moved away from there when I graduated from high school. AS: And what year was that? MM: AS: 31 Ok. [End Track 2, Begin Track 3] AS: So you went to Brewer High school? MM: No I went to John Bap s. AS: Oh you did.

6 AS: Ok, all right. I went to Brewer but I had a lot of friends that went to John Bap s. MM: Oh did you go to Brewer? AS: Yes. AS: Now did you have any brothers or anything that worked in the mill? MM: No, no. They were younger than I was yes, so they weren t even out of school when we moved. You know they were still in high school, one had just gone into high school, the other was still in grammar school. AS: And where did you move to? MM: Albany. AS: Albany, wow. Was that for your father s job? MM: Well he went into a different line of work then. He went into radio work. AS: Oh wow. MM: So he had an opportunity to go there and so he went. AS: Wow. MM: And it was depression time and you took, you know it was hard times then. AS: Had to take what you could fine. MM: Yes, you see at that time you didn t have any union in the paper mills. AS: Oh really. MM: No. MM: No, and it wasn t high paying paper mills then. It was different from today. AS: Yes. MM: Yes, and it was, a lot of it was hard work. AS: Yes, a lot of labor jobs. MM: Yes, there was a lot of labor jobs. AS: So did your father have one of the better jobs in that he worked in the office? MM: He worked in the office yes. Well it wasn t, I mean it was a good job but I mean it wasn t anything real big. Did anyone tell you ]about the, oh the booms they used to have in the river? AS: No tell me about those. MM: Oh my, maybe you ve seen pictures of them over the year. They had logs, well they made a trap out in the river with logs and the logs were all hooked together and that s where the pulp wood was dumped, inside those logs.

7 AS: Oh ok. MM: And in fact I had a brother drown there. AS: Oh did you? MM: Yes, yes. AS: That s awful. MM: And that probably was one of the first drownings in the, it was I think the first one in that area. AS: When he was a little boy? MM: Yes, he was 10. AS: Oh that s terrible. MM: But that s what, and they called that the boom. AS: And so would the logs come down the Penobscot River? MM: They d come down the Penobscot River. You know, you ve seen pictures probably of log rides. Ok that s the way some of them came. AS: Ok, then they would get stuck on the boom. They would go inside that boom until they used them. AS: Oh isn t that interesting. MM: Yes, that was part of the Eastern at that time. Another thing I remember about in the 20s, of course they had also connections with that, was it the Lincoln mill or the Old Town? I don t remember which it was. Probably the Old Town wouldn t it be because that s the one they just, well anyway that was when one Christmas, the first Christmas they made green tissue and red tissue. AS: Really. MM: Wrapping paper. AS: Oh wow. MM: Yes, I remember that in my paper mill days. AS: Oh that must have been a big deal huh? MM: Oh it was, yes it was. Yes. AS: Now when you and your, did you have sisters? MM: one, older one, yes. AS: you and your siblings were young, did you used to play down around the mill area? MM: They had oh, they had what was called a sand pit and we played there a lot but then in the 20s sometime, I can t remember just what the date was but was when they built, they enclosed the whole holdings with a fence.

8 MM: It was a high fence and it was one that kids couldn t climb over and that was about the same time that they built what they called the guest house on Air Street. I think that s still there but I don t know what it s used for now. It s right at the end of Air Street. AS: Ok and you lived on Air Street? AS: After you lived on Main Street? MM: Yes AS: Ok so what was the guest house used for? MM: When you know, I think when visitors came from, to go to the mill, engineers and [managers]. MM: And different ones, yes and they were entertained and they stayed at the guest house. AS: Did you ever get to go in there and look around? MM: I don t think I ever went in. AS: No. MM: No, I don t think I did and everyone that, the people that built the house right across from us, he worked at the mill. [End Track 3, Begin Track 4] MM: and their name was Mooney AS: Mooney ok. MM: You probably haven t heard that? AS: No MM: I m trying to think what names, are there any [Kirer s]? AS: I don t think I ve come across anyone yet either. MM: No. They didn t all work there anyway. I think only one, Clarence I think worked there. And that, oh I know what I remember that was, and I was just a child then, one of my cousins, her husband worked at the mill. [ ] is my father and he did work on shift work and I mean it might be day time or night and if he was working the day shift at noontime his wife would pack up a lunch, a hot lunch and send it to him in his lunch box. AS: Oh really. Now did your father work during the day time? MM: No, he, his was a day, his was all day work. He was what you called salaried. AS: Ok, Ok. MM: and the people on the machines were what you called wage and so he came home for lunch. AS: Oh ok.

9 MM: Which they called dinner and then at night we had supper which would be a fairly hearty meal because he had worked all day. And they had, in those days they also had the mill whistle. AS: Oh yes. MM: And that blew, I think it was 12 o clock and 5 o clock. That was the end of that session. AS: So was that loud enough so that MM: Oh you could hear the whole town. The whole town could hear that. It was, as I say your life revolved around that paper mill because everyone had someone that worked there. AS: Now did you, do you remember anything about the inside of the mill when you used to go visit your father? MM: Just machinery you know and the big broke boxes. I can remember them and looking in them. AS: Was it awful loud in there? MM: Oh always, yes, yes. Yes, yes and people moving around you know. It was noisy in those days. I don t know how it is in a paper mill today. I don t think it s that noisy. AS: Probably not. MM: It s still noisy though. AS: and I heard it used to get really hot in the machine room. MM: Oh terrible. Yes, yes they used to really. It was a paper mill town AS: Were there a lot of businesses around there that the mill workers would go to: restaurants or general stores? MM: Oh we had grocery stores. We had, lets see, there was Herrick s and there was Wentworth's and there was [a Kirer]. There were three of them. AS: Right down in South Brewer? The buildings are all still there. You know where [Tosures] is in, ok that was Wentworth s store AS: Oh was it. MM: And that little building right next to Saint Theresa s School or what was Saint Theresa s School I think it s a business now. It s that red brick building. AS: Yes. I think it s an engineering store. MM: Engineering outfit yes and there was, oh that was [Kirer s] store and Herrick s was down below, it was on the end of Elm Street. It was at the corner of Elms Street and that buildings still there. AS: So they all served like sandwiches? MM: No, nope, the men carried their lunches. MM: I don t think there was even a cafeteria there. AS: Ok so would it be like where you could get tobacco, that type of thing?

10 MM: Oh, the grocery stores carried all kinds of food. AS: Ok, like a general store. MM: General store, oh yes because we had an ice cream parlor. AS: Did you? MM: Which carried newspapers and they had a soda fountain in there, what we called the soda fountain, you sat at a counter and they had all kinds of smokes. They didn t have any food I don t think but they had magazines and that was right where the recycling, you know where Cat Marls, the restaurant. AS: Yes. MM: Ok that was, that was a, that was a store, Cat Marls; it was right next to the recycling building [End Track 4, Begin Track 5] MM: You know, a redeeming place there. AS: Yes. MM: That building, that was Herrick s Store. AS: Oh ok and that s where the soda fountain was? MM: No, no the soda fountain was [Groupies], that was next to Marls. MM: Marls fish store and they have a rest-, I don t know if they still have a restaurant there or not. AS: I think they do actually. MM: I think they do. AS: Yes, that s been there for a long time, hasn t it? MM: Oh, oh my goodness all my, the restaurant hasn t but at one time I think it was, well at one time it was a [Speak Easy] AS: Was it? MM: Yes, it was. I m quite sure. And there was also the speak easy on Oak Street. We didn t know much about it you know but in later years I found out that they could get a drink there, the men could. AS: I bet they used to go there after their shifts got done and things like that. MM: They, you know they didn t stay because, any length of time because it was against the law. AS: Isn t that interesting. MM: And they also had, when I was growing up there was an Epstein s. AS: Oh really MM: Yes and that was next, there was one of them next to Cat Marls and there was one down where it had been and across the street from Epstein s in South-, you know where well where the paper mill was and then that became a warehouse and that big building is still there, right across from what was Epstein s.

11 AS: Yes, it s an antique store now actually. MM: Oh is it. Well that was the school. AS: Was it? MM: That was, yes, that was one of the grammar schools. We had two grammar schools. AS: Oh you did. MM: Yes the other one was [on Pebbleton Street] and that buildings been everything. I don t know what s in there now. AS: Oh, ok. MM: But that s still being used. AS: Yes, yes. MM: And that was a business. That was schools, those were the two schools. AS: Now which school did you go to? MM: Well first I went to the lower one for the first grade, then I went to what they called the upper, that was Pebbleton Street on the Main Street then I went to Saint Theresa s. That was built 19--, I think that opened in 1922 so I went to all of them. AS: Wow. MM: It was, I was trying to think if there were any other, no Groupies was the big place where they had the soda fountain. There was a drug store. AS: Oh really. I can t remember the name of it now but that was down, below the paper mill and it was where you saw the curve to go out to Brewer, near the congregational church. AS: Oh ok. MM: Yup. AS: So you said you were one of the first houses on Air Street. AS: Do you know, do you happen to know if Air Street was named after Fred Air? MM: Yes it was. AS: It was? MM: It was. AS: And he had the first saw mill on the site, is that correct? He was the first one and his, that oh, there s a house still there; what is that at the corner- it s across from Saint Theresa s School and it s still there? I don t know. I think it s a residence now but he had a barn there. That s

12 where they lived when they first settled. See my grandfather was one of the first settlers in South Brewer. AS: Was he? What was his name? MM: Pooler. Peter Pooler. AS: Peter Pooler, ok. MM: Yup, Peter and Eliza. AS: Now did he work at the mill? MM: I don t think he did because he was, oh I know what he did. You know there used to be a boarding house. It s right behind, that building is still there. Didn t it become a [Ford] employees, was it a ford. It s still there. It s, just to, well our house was just the second house about St. Theresa s School. MM: And behind that there s a building and it was a boarding house and my, I think my grandfather owned it. Because we used to go over in there a lot so he owned that building and it was just called the boarding house. As far as I know that s all it was ever called. AS: That s interesting. So yes, he was one of the early settlers. The Air s, and the Pooler s and the Palmer s were another early settler. AS: So your family has been in Brewer for a long time. MM: Oh yeah, yeah. AS: Now you moved away, your family moved away and then when did you come back to the area? MM: Oh well I, we used to come summers after we had the children. [End Track 5, Begin Track 6] MM: And we rented a cottage for a number of years but I had relatives here. I had a great aunt and uncle right across the road and my grandparents lived just two miles from here. AS: Oh ok. MM: So this was familiar land so when it came time to retire, this is what, we bought this place and came back. AS: Great. MM: Even though my husband was originally from Albany. AS: Oh he was? AS: Yeah. Now how did you two meet? MM: In the paper mill. AS: Did you really.

13 AS: Wow. What a coincidence. MM: Yes, well we left here, I had just graduated from high school and I went to a business college in Albany and my first job was in the laboratory in the paper mill. AS: Isn t that funny. It runs in the family. MM: Yes, yes that is all I have known all my life are paper mills. Of course that s what my husband did. He was working in the lab when I went to work there. AS: Oh, isn t that great. MM: Yes so I ve been connected with paper mills all and he worked for paper mill s all his life; not for the mill itself but he sold to paper mills in later years, oh earlier in our marriage. But I worked in the office for seven years. AS: Wow. MM: So all I ve known is paper making. AS: Wow. MM: It s just a part of my life. AS: It sure is. That s a neat story. AS: Now when you were growing up in South Brewer did most of the people there own their own homes? AS: They did. MM: Yes, they did. AS: And so, I heard that there were some houses at one time that were owned by the mill that people could rent and I m not sure when that was. Did you ever hear of a place like happy town or something like that? MM: No that must have been real early. AS: It might have been yes. MM: Because as far as I know, most of them owned, owned their homes. AS: Now were there many families that had cars or any of that type of thing? MM: Not early. AS: Not early. MM: No. AS: A lot of farms still in the area or was that away from the city center? MM: It was all country at the top of, you know when you re going down to Brewer, South Brewer, it s all hill. You know you go to the different, called Elm Street to go to Brewer. AS: Right.

14 MM: And that was all country. At the top of the hill, houses ended and it was country and woods and you just didn t go there because there was nothing and there were farms there. In fact there was also quite a bit of livestock right in the village, even when I was growing up. Our milk man lived right in South Brewer and had his cows. AS: Oh really. MM: Yes, yes. Their name was King. AS: Ok, now did you have animals at all? MM: No just, we had cats. AS: Just cats. MM: Yes, when I was real young we had a dog but in later years we didn t. But my grandparents did of course so we had our pets there. AS: Do you think your father enjoyed working in the mill? MM: Oh yes. He had a load of friends. AS: He did. MM: Oh yes, yes, yes. He had a lot of friends. AS: And it was a good job and it supported his family? MM: Oh yes, yes. Yes, I imagine they had it kind of rough you know during, but we always seemed to survive. AS: yes. MM: I really didn t know anything about the depression too much until you know after I got out of high school because actually it didn t start until after 29. And in a little place like that, I don t think you felt it as much because neighbor help neighbor and I don t know. I don t remember being deprived or anything. AS: Yes. MM: I suppose, I know they were in the cities but in a place like Brewer it was, oh and something interesting; you know of course there were, even then there were people that lived in Bangor that worked there and people that even lived in Hampden [End Track 6, Begin Track 7] MM: And there was one family that lived right across the river from the paper mill and he worked in the mill. His name was Dunk McDonald and in the winter, he came across on the ice. AS: Did they really? MM: And in the summer, the rest of the year, he rode across in his boat. AS: Oh wow MM: That s how they went back and forth to work. AS: Wow. MM: And even the boys, they had a couple of boys, our ages, my age anyway and some of my friends and they would row over and play over on our side of the river, yes.

15 AS: Isn t that neat. MM: And that was, so that was still mill connection because you wouldn t have known them if it hadn t been for the mill. AS: Right, right. Huh, so it really was a very connecting part of the community. MM: Oh yeah, it really was. Yes. AS: I have to stop just for a second AS: And flip the tape over here. It s almost running out. Ok, I think we re good. Well is there anything else that you can think of to tell me? You ve told me so many good stories. MM: Well I was telling you about my brother drowning in May, you know and of course; oh years and years later I met friends [of association]. They were cousins and different ones that grew up with him and knew him well and they never forgot that drowning. AS: Really. MM: Because it was so, it was May first and the ice was, you know still going out some and it was on those booms. That s why the booms are so familiar to me because they were walking on them and they fell off. AS: Oh gosh. MM: Yes and he couldn t swim but those boys never forgot that. They used to speak of it to me whenever I run into them you know they would say oh we remember Bus. They called him Bus and it would all come back to them of how, and they had, and the paper mill at that time; there was also a man who was a professional diver. AS: Really. MM: Yes, this is how paper mills and he even, you know did some diving, professional diving and went down to see if he could find, of course they knew exactly where he went down. But the current was so strong, you know. They never found a thing. AS: They never did. That must have been so hard on your parents. MM: It must have been you know. Of course I don t realize, I didn t realize at the time how awful it must have been for them AS: Because you were so young. I was 8 but I remember it all. AS: Was you brother younger or older? MM: Older. He was ten. AS: And what was his name? MM: Charles AS: Charles

16 AS: Oh, that s awful. MM: It s funny the, well the Pooler s, there are other than Victors Pooler s, his boys, as you said you ve got that name, Pooler, Victor. But then the younger generation, how about Blackman? Is that name in your AS: No, it s not one I ve come across yes. MM: How about Verow? AS: Verow I recognize, yes. MM: Yup. AS: There s a man named Arthur Verow in Brewer and he s the city clerk. AS: And I ve talked to him and his family used to run a store I guess in I think the 50s or 60s. MM: Oh that would have been Clem. Clemet Verow, he ran the one right next to St. Theresa s. AS: Oh, ok, ok. MM: That s where he ran his store. AS: So that s an old mill family too, huh? MM: Yes, his father worked in the paper mill. AS: Oh all right. MM: His father s name was Otis. AS: Otis. He was my cousin. AS: Oh, ok. MM: Well I had a lot of cousins. AS: So a lot of relatives in the South Brewer area? MM: Yes, there were and there were a lot of, there were Irish families and a lot of French. AS: Really. MM: Yes, yes, there were a lot of French families. AS: Now do you think the Irish and French families came to the area to work in the industry? MM: Oh yes. AS: Or had they settled long before that? MM: No, I don t know if the paper mill was running then or not but they immigrated to South Brewer. Well my grandfather had a lot of them come of his, you know his, his wife, my grandmother had a lot of sisters and he had them all come to Maine once they got settled here. Then a lot of the town was divided up that way. [End Track 7,

17 Begin Track 8] MM: They gave them a deed to a piece of land. AS: Oh so did they come from Ireland? MM: No they came from Quebec. AS: Oh ok, so they were a French family. MM: They were the French family. MM: And then you had, you had the English that came from Canada but they came from New Brunswick, they came and then the Irish and you know, there s came from Ireland, I imagine most of. AS: Did everybody seem to get along ok? MM: Oh yes. AS: There wasn t any you know, we re Irish and we re French? MM: Oh no, no, no. There wasn t any division until the KKK came in. AS: Yes, do you remember that? MM: Yes AS: Do you remember anything happening in Brewer? MM: I don t remember anything happening in Brewer, no I don t. AS: You were pretty young. MM: I was young. Yes, I know we did go and watch, we had relatives of some kind in Portland and we made a trip to Portland one time. Oh my, that was a trip and on, what was it, [ ] in Portland, I think so and when we were driving past there, they were burning the cross. AS: Really? MM: Yes and I can remember that because of the flames. AS: Oh my goodness that must have kind of been scary for a little kid. They were, they were actually burning the cross. Yes and that did divide some of the people, you know but which was sad. AS: Yes. MM: Yes, but to see that at that time they hadn t been in Maine too many years except what they came in the mid 1800s I presume. Yes, they must have. AS: Yes. MM: Yes, it would have been in the mid 1800s, that a lot of them came. I don t know when Fred Air s came. AS: I m not sure but that would have been my guess, in the 1800s.

18 MM: Yes, about the same time. AS: Yes. MM: Maybe a little bit earlier because I think they were one of the first and I don t know who built the mill. Who built the mill? AS: That s a good question. I ve heard some people say that Fred Aires was the first person to build a lumber mill on that side. MM: Ok, yes. AS: Then I ve also read that, way back in the 1780s when John Brewer first came to the area, he had a sawmill and so we re not quite sure if it s on the same location or MM: Oh I see. AS: Because of that little stream that runs near it. It would have been a good spot. MM: Yes, where it goes down in that hollow. AS: Yes, so MM: And that stream goes right by there. Oh I know a little interesting item that they used to have there. In the, it was one summer that I remember and they had a baseball team. AS: Oh they did. MM: Yes and a lot of the industries had them that year and they recruited college students and a lot of them were from, they were from Massachusetts and they, of course they were paid, the players were paid and they played ball. One boy, one man, young man I should say lived right near where we lived. He lived right on Main Street. He boarded, roomed and boarded there and I don t know if you ve ever heard, oh you probably, maybe you have, have you heard of Normie Dow? There was something in Bangor in his memory, a scholarship or something. AS: Ok, it sounds familiar. MM: He was head of the something in Bangor. When I went to John Bap s he was the athletic director and taught there. MM: And well anyway, he had a brother in college, in Holy Cross in Worchester Massachusetts and he was here that summer playing ball. And I remember we girls were all just overwhelmed. AS: So you would go and watch the game? MM: Oh yes, see there was a ball park there then AS: Where was it? MM: You know where the playground is on Main Street, right next to the church, Saint Theresa s Church? AS: Oh yes. MM: Ok that was all fenced in and there were bleachers. AS: Wow.

19 MM: And I could go upstairs in our house on Air Street and watch that game from the window. AS: Oh wow. MM: Yes but it was, it was bleachers. Yes that wasn t, I can t remember when it was torn down but they had a lot of games there. AS: So that was a pretty big event in the town? MM: Oh yes. AS: Did a lot of people go? MM: Yes a lot of people went to the ball game. [End track 8, Begin Track 9] MM: Baseball was a big, a big thing then. AS: Did you have any relatives that played on the Eastern team? MM: I don t know, not that I know of, no but I remember Normie Dow s brother Tommy, he was one of the players. And he roomed at one of my friends homes and their parents rented out a room to them in the, during that season. AS: Sounds like fun. MM: It was. It was exciting and there again it s connected with the paper mill. AS: Yes. MM: It is, that s what I say our lives revolved around that mill really. That s how you knew everyone of course. AS: Now you said that the mill had Christmas parties and you remember going to Christmas parties when you were young. AS: Would they do other community events? MM: I don t know. I don t know of any because, no I don t but I imagine they took part in a lot of things. AS: Now what about if for instance when your brother drowned out there, would they, would the mill do like collections for the family? MM: I don t know. I wonder, I wonder. These are things you wish you had asked your parents. AS: Yes and then again it is hard because you were so young at the time. MM: Oh yes, oh yes, yes. AS: But it was a very big community so I m sure everybody knew about it. MM: Oh yes, yup. It was something that had never happened like that before. I mean there were children that could swim, other boys could swim. AS: Did they fall in also but they could get out? MM: Yes but they could swim. AS: Oh, I wonder if that was in the newspaper at the time.

20 MM: Oh it must have been. Yes it was. AS: Was it. MM: Yes it was because in my scrapbook I have a telegram from my, one of my fathers brothers that lived, now I don t know which one, I d have to look it up, to my father and mother saying how, how grieved they were to read in the paper about my brother drowning. AS: Oh wow. MM: So apparently they didn t even telegraph them. Well see they wouldn t come and they probably wrote a letter but they didn t apparently, but I have that, my mother saved that telegram. AS: Really. MM: And I have it yes. AS: Wow. MM: And it was from one of my, from my father s brother on the West Coast. AS: Wow. MM: So it was in the news-, and he says in it saw in the paper, was shocked or something. Yes I ve kept that though. I wouldn t want that to get lost. AS: yes. MM: So you know communication wasn t that good. You had mail of course but that was, that wasn t very speedy. AS: Right. MM: To the West Coast. AS: Yes, it s interesting that he was way out there and he got it in the newspaper. That shocked me I remember and I didn t know my mother had that telegram until after she died and I had her scrapbook and it was in it. AS: Wow. MM: Yes so. I m trying to think if there were any other little incidents. AS: Did you ever hear of any other accidents? MM: No. AS: Related to the mill. MM: Not bad ones, no. No. AS: That s good. MM: No that was good wasn t it? AS: yes.

21 MM: Yes, I can t think of any. AS: Did you ever have, you were saying how they used the linen for clothing, did you ever have a felt blanket that came from the mill? MM: Not from that mill. No but I did from other mills. AS: Oh ok. AS: That s something that I had heard about from some other people. MM: Oh you had? AS: Yes. That they would take the felt off the rollers AS: and use it for blankets. MM: Yes, yes they used to bind them. And if they, I think they used that whatever they called that, feather stitching or something around the edges. AS: Oh yeah. MM: I doubt very much that they bound many but they were warm, they were of course a 100% wool and they would never shrink. AS: Right. [End Track 9, Begin Track 10] MM: and they didn t have to be dry cleaned because they had been washed many, many times on the machine. They were pre-shrunk. Yes, that was, I ve had them from other paper mills and they used to sell them by the pound. AS: Oh really? MM: Yes so they didn t cost much of anything and they were only sold those to the employees. AS: Oh ok. MM: Yes, most of them were taken by the employees. Of course some paper mills had a side line of blankets. AS: Oh ok. MM: And they were beautiful blankets and they d fluff them you know and they d be softer, much softer and they d bind them with satin binding. AS: Wow, yes I ve heard some folks say they were the warmest blankets. MM: They were, they were yes. AS: Were there any other things you can think of that were recycled from the mill that people would use at home? MM: No, I can t think of anything except the linen in that mill, yes. AS: And the paper you could get. MM: And the paper that you could get. And of course today children would never be allowed in, unescorted in a

22 paper mill. It would be too dangerous. AS: It must have been kind of exciting though as a child. MM: Oh it was. It was fun. You could just walk in there. Yes, that same year that my brother was drowned, it was flooded into the mill and it went back, they went into the mill in a boat, in a rowboat. AS: Really. MM: From the Main Street in across, you know where the stream. AS: Yes. MM: Well that all overflowed AS: Oh my goodness. MM: And they couldn t walk in, and of course and I don t think, well they wouldn t be able to drive either if they drove but practically everyone walked to work. Of course they had to in the 20 s. I don t think anyone, I imagine some of the superintendents, like that probably had cars but I know my father walked back and forth to work. Yes, every morning. I don t know what time. I would guess he probably was at work at 8 o clock. I imagine he worked 8 to 12 or something and then probably 1 to 5 and the whistle would blow and of course you also had that, when the sulfite mill was running you had that smell AS: Oh yes. MM: In the whole town. AS: Was that a constant or would they just burn that MM: No that was intermittent you know. Yeah, yeah and it was sort of a sharp smell. It wasn t like the wood, like they have where Old Town that they get the, in Westbrook and those places. AS: Yes. MM: I don t know what that, we didn t have that smell in Brewer but we did have the sulf- of course they had what they called the sulfite mill. AS: Oh really. Now would you go swimming in the river there when you were a kid? MM: I didn t. AS: No. MM: No, we weren t allowed to but they did swim there. AS: They did? MM: Yes the boys did mostly. AS: For fishing? MM: I don t know if they went fishing but they were, but they did go skating in the winter. AS: Really. MM: Yes because you know the ice, I don t know when the ice breakers started but they did have an ice breaker but see they d only break it to a certain point and I don t think it had the power that one has today of course.

23 AS: Wow. MM: But that river would freeze right over. AS: Would it? MM: Oh yeah and they d skate out there. AS: Oh wow. MM: Yes, that was a skating rink and then you had hills that you d go skiing on. And now again, you still had the same families; that s how you knew everyone. AS: So were most of your friends growing up children of mill workers also? MM: Oh all were children, I think they all were that I knew, that I, yup. Yes I was [friends with the Dawashers], and the Palmers, well just everyone, the Tardiffs. Have you heard the name Tardiff? AS: Yes MM: Yes of course my best friend was Anna Tardiff. AS: Oh really. MM: Yes, yes one of my best friends in Brewer and Williams. Did you hear the name Williams? AS: Williams sounds familiar. MM: Yes there was a, Ben Williams was the father and he worked there and there were the [Goullettes] and the Parents. Now there s one that s still alive [End Track 10, Begin Track 11] MM: Last I knew Francis Parent but I don t know. He lives in, I think he lives in Orono or some place. AS: Oh really. I don t think he s very well. He s younger than I am too, quite a bit. I m trying to think how old, and he was one that used to take his fathers lunch to him. AS: Oh really. MM: And I used to be, I was fascinated. I can remember that, I went in to my, I called her Aunt Ella, that was a Parent and I used to stop, well we went in and out of everyone s house like that to see you know the Parents always had a cookie or something for us. AS Oh yes. MM: And I was in there and she was getting his noontime lunch ready for Francis wrapped for the son to take and as soon as that whistle blew and I could see, I can still see her packing that, they had a good size lunch box with compartments in it and she put in mashed potatoes with gravy and there was some kind of a chop and a vegetable AS: Wow. MM: And a hot apple pie. I can, and some hot, I think he drank tea. AS: Oh wow. MM: And a thermos of tea. I don t know if they had a thermos. I think they had a jar you know and the boy would take off on a run and take that lunch down to his father.

24 AS: Wow. That s a lot better than a sandwich isn t it? MM: Isn t it, isn t it and that s the way they did so AS: Wow MM: I presume they didn t have a cafeteria of any kind because the men all went home to eat. Otherwise I think some of those, like your supervisors and those would have eaten at the mill probably at the cafeteria but that was the way they did. They all carried their lunch and if he was on the night shift of course. Don t you love that? That lets me know what time it is. AS: It s a good thing to have. MM: Oh yeah. All my, all my clocks and thermometers talk AS: Oh good. MM: Oh well, I wouldn t know what time it was otherwise but when they were on the night shift of course they carried their lunch with the one they went. And you d see the men going down, walking down the street carrying their lunch boxes. Yup. I just thought of that. I can see them. AS: Yes. There were a lot of them. I don t, I don t know many families that didn t have someone working in the paper mill, especially the father. AS: Right. MM: I just heard on the news, on the local news there was a fire down there in South Brewer, on Kings Court wasn t it? AS: Yes. AS: Yes, I heard about that too. MM: Yes AS: That was not far from MM: That s not far from the mill. No, that s not far at all. And there were Pooler s that worked at the mill come to think of it. What was his name? Paul and his wife worked there too and her name, before she was remarried, was Irene Comings. AS: Were these Pooler s that were related to you? MM: No MM: If they were, it was distant you know and there were Calhan s. Oh how about the name James Day? Did you ever hear of James Day? AS: That sounds familiar. MM: Because he got into politics and now his father worked there. I know that and I think probably some, they were all big families so some of the others worked there too.

25 AS: So it was very common that if your father worked there then the sons would go to work there as well and follow in the tradition. Yes. Of course there wasn t much industry around then. AS: Right, do you think that was probably where most people worked in Brewer, the majority of people? MM: I was, what else, well there were small industries because at that time you had your ice industry. AS: Right, that s right. That was in Brewer. I remember that. There were several industries like that, small ones and they were, you know you had a littler shopping area in Brewer up in middle of Brewer we ll call it. AS: Yes. MM: Middle of Brewer, up where they put the drug store and there are still little shops there. When you cross the bridge AS: Right. MM: W e won t say which bridge. They finally named the new bridge going [End Track 11, Begin Track 12] MM: Across the Penobscot down here AS: Oh really? What s the name of this one now? MM: Down East Gateway. AS: Oh ok. I hadn t heard of that name. MM: That s what it s going to be apparently. I don t know why but that s, it s still going to be a big bridge. AS: It sure looks like it. MM: Isn t it something. AS: It is. The cranes out there are huge. Now when you were a child in Brewer, were there still big ships coming up the river with supplies. MM: Yes, you know to the mill they would bring, and I think they were coming right into Bangor. I don t know what they d be bringing to Bangor. And you had the passenger boats from Boston. AS: Oh yes. MM: That was a big ship. That went right to Bangor. MM: That went from Boston to Bangor because they called it the Boston Boat. AS: Oh all right so that was like a touring boat. No it was a part, no it had a regular schedule. AS: Oh ok, instead of using the railroad.

26 MM: Yeah, they went by boat, yup. AS: Now did you ever use the ferries or anything? MM: I was on, once I can remember being on the kicker, what they called the kicker [pool] in Brewer, in Bangor, go from Brewer to Bangor and just once and I couldn t have been very old. AS: And they have the MM: The trolleys. AS: The trolleys, oh yes ok. MM: See they came to the paper mill, the ones that worked in Bangor, a lot of them would come by trolley. AS: So it came right across the bridge there. MM: Oh yes. AS: Oh ok. MM: Yes, yes it came from downtown Bangor and then it would go right down to the foot of the hill going into Orrington. AS: Oh ok. MM: so a lot of your mill workers used that of course. AS: Gosh, you ve told me so much. I appreciate it. MM: Oh well. AS: I have a great picture of Brewer in the 20 s in my head now. MM: Oh you do. AS: It s amazing, yes. MM: Yeah. AS: I wish I could have seen it. MM: It was quite a little, you know, area. It was quite a settlement and it was a nice way to grow up. You had a lot of friends, children did because our [ ] would play together. I mean you had no organized play of course in those days. It was all get together and play. I mean you didn t have boys and girls ball teams because there weren t enough of one sex for a whole team and it s hard you know so they would pick, the girls and boys played baseball together. And where Saint Theresa s Church is now in South Brewer, in Brewer there was a little children s ball park. That s where we played baseball. AS: Oh really, next to the bigger ball park? Yes that s where the kids all got together and played and we did a lot together. Yes it was, there was always a bunch of kids. You knew everyone and you knew their families. AS: So you were never short of playmates. MM: Oh no, no. There was always plenty. Yes it was, I was trying to figure the different names you might have, what other names have you heard in your gathering information.

27 AS: Oh well a lot of them are from later, like 80s and 70s MM: Yes, that s what I m thinking, yup. AS: Not too many of the earlier names that I know of other than those that you ve mentioned, like the Pooler s and the [Verricelles] and the Verows. MM: The Verows, yes. AS: So. MM: and the [Kirers]. I only, only one of them because Bob Kirer went with the Bangor Daily News. AS: Oh really. He had a big job there. He was one of the big mo-jo s. I forget what he was, yup. Bob was older than I was but not you know a lot. He was a nice person and there was Richard. Richard s wife was in politics. AS: Oh really. MM: Well I don t know if she, she might have been on the Brewer Council or something like that. I don t know, I didn t know her that well. I met her a few times but he worked at the airport so I didn t know them as well, in later years. And Clarence moved away so I didn t know him that well in later life. But it was, it was a good life. AS: Well thank you very much. I ve really enjoyed talking with you. MM: Well I ve enjoyed reminiscing. AS: And if you do come across that photo. MM: I will AS: Give us a call. MM: I will, I ll make sure, I will. I ll get it to you. AS: We d love to see it. MM: Because I couldn t, of course now I can t see them but I can picture them and I know I could, I think I could see it enough to point my father out in it. I think a couple of others, did you run across any Coalman? AS: Coalman. I m not sure. MM: Probably not. He worked there because he and my father were close friends and then there were the Marls, some of the Marls worked there. I think one of the women worked there. AS: Oh really. MM: Yes, I think Amelda. I think her name was Amelda. I think she worked there. There again, it s another relative, another cousin. AS: Wow. MM: I had a lot of cousins. AS: I guess.

28 MM: Oh yes, well they immigrated together. AS: Right. MM: They came to Maine together and so you just had them. That was, that was it. AS: Well great. I think I m going to end it here because we are almost out of tape. MM: Good. AS: But I ll say thank you very much. MM: Well you re welcome. [End Track 12, End Interview] Maine Folklife Center 5773 South Stevens, Room 112B Orono, ME (207) folklife@umit.maine.edu Maintained by 3rd Millennium Encoding University of Maine logo University of Maine Otherwise, all text, images, and forms on this web site MFC The Maine Folklife Center is a proud member of Table of Contents Last updated: