,I 1 U.1 U.1 1 1 1 U I U TETON ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM Ricks College Idaho State Historical Society History Department, Utah State University TETON DAM DISASTER Carl J. Johnson Interviewed by Mary Ann Beck July 13, 1977 Project made possible by funds from the W.K. Kellogg Foundation Idaho State Legislature through the Idaho State Historical Society and National Endowment for the Humanities
1 ' U 1 ', 1, 1, 1 1 1 U 1 U U UTAH STATE UNIVERSITY & RICKS COLLEGE HISTORY DEPARTMENTS COMMUNITY IMPROVEMENT THROUGH LOCAL HISTORY ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM INTERVIEWER AGREEMENT In view of the historical and scholarly value of this information contained in the interview with ry, I, J 4 (name, please print) (interviewer, print) knowingly and voluntarily permit the Milton R. Merrill Library at Utah State University, the David 0. McKay Library at Ricks College, and the Idaho State Historical Society at. Boise, Idaho, the full rights and use of this information. -(12 Interviewer's Signature 7\/ 77 Date
,I 1 U.1 U.1 1 1 1 U I U UTAH STATE UNIVERSITY & RICKS COLLEGE HISTORY DEPARTMENTS COMMUNITY IMPROVEMENT THROUGH LOCAL HISTORY ORAL HISTORY PROGRAM INTERVIEWEE AGREEMENT You have been interviewed in connection with a joint oral history program of the History Department, Utah State University, Ricks College, and the Idaho State Historical Society. The purpose of this oral history program is to gather and preserve information for historical and scholarly use. A tape recording of your interview has been made by the interviewer. A verbatim typescript of the tape will be made and a final typed and edited transcripts, together with the tape will be made and a final will then be filed in the Milton R. Merrill Library Special Collections, David 0. McKay Library at Ricks College, and the Idaho State Historical Society in Boise. This material will be made available according to each of the depositories' policies for research be scholars and by others for scholarly purposes. When the final transcript is completed, a personal copy will.be sent to you. * * * * * In view of the historical and scholarly value of this information, I, Cid /vs.) L-J;J, ).,1, do hereby assign full (please print full name) and all rights of this material to the Merrill Library at Utah State University, to the Library at Ricks College, and to the Idaho State Historical Society at Boise, Idaho, for scholarly purposes according to each of the institutions governing policies. Inter ewee's Signature -;7 P/77 Date
1 ',I 1 ' U.1 U.1.1 1 1 U ORAL HISTORY INTERVIEWEE; Carl J. Johnson INTERVIEWER; Mary- Ann Beck DATE: July 13, 1977 TETON DAM DISASTER B: Mr. Johnson, where were you born? J; I was born at Lyman, Idaho. B: How long have you lived in Rexburg? J: I have lived in this county all of my life. I have lived in Rexburg about forty years. B; Will you spell your full name? J; Carl John Johnson. B; How old are you? J; I' am eighty-six years old, B; Do you have a family? J; Yes. B; How many were living in your home at the time of the flood? J; I was living there alone. B: What was your address at the time of the flood? J: 311 West 4th South, Rexburg, Idaho. B; Is that your present address? J: It is. B; What do you do for a living? J: I suppose the popular thing to is is that I was retired. I work for a living and find that taking care of the yard and the garden is about what I do. B: How long have you lived this area?
1 ',I 1 ' U.1 U.1.1 1 1 U JOHNSON 2 J; All of my life, B; Did you own your own home? J; Yes. B; Did you support or oppose the construction of the Teton Dam? J; Well, T suppose I would call fit support because I: was in favor of it, B: Why? J; Because it was necessary for flood purposes as well as for irrigation purposes. I think that it is a necessary thing for this valley. B: Did you have a premonition about the flood? J: No, I did not. B; Where were, you when the flood hit? J: II was here at home. B: What was your first reaction when you heard that the dam had failed? J: My reaction was that it wouldn't make any difference. There wasn't enought water up there to even reach here, B: Did you try to save any household or personal items? J; No. I never thought that the water would even get here, B; Did you see the flood coming? J: No, not until I could see it up the street here about a block away, just a little sheet of water coming, that's all. B; Can you describe anything else about It? J: It surprised me' to even see a little water coming. It wasn't just a few minutes until it was coming both from the north and from the east, so it came quickly when it did come, B; What kind of debris was in it? J; Everything that there is loose on the face of the earth was in it. Barrels and boxes and cans and barrels and woods, lumber, trash of all kinds.
,I.1 U.1 U.1 IIU, 1 1 U I U JOHNSON 3 B; What color was the water? J; It had kind of a little bit of a brownish look to it. B; How fast was it coming? J; When we saw it and we left the house here, it was just coming across the street. By the time we walked south a half a block it wasn't ten minutes until there was water up there. B: What time did you leave your home? J; I guess it was about 11;30 or something like that. B; The flood came about noon then? J: Just about noon, yes. B: In vacating the area where you live, tell what happened to you and your family. J; I was working in the garden with my tiller and Gerald came over about 10:00 or maybe 9:30 and said, "It came over the radio that they are vacating the block north of us. Don't you think that you had better go now?" I said, "No. I am going to finish this tilling," So I tilled while he went back and then he came back again and said, "Well, they are vacating the other block right straight north of you." "Well," I said, "that is alright. I am not quite through yet but I am not going to go." So he came back at about 11:30 and said, "Well, they are vacating this block, now what are you going to do?" r said, "I'll go if they are vacating it." So he said, "Alrtght, we are going." And we left. B; Is that your son? J: Yes, that is my son. B: Did you have any unusual or miraculous experiences in connection with the flood? J: No. B; Did you see animals trying to escape the floodwaters? J; Not even a cat. B; Where did you and your family stay during the first two or three days after the flood?
JOHNSON 4 J: The first night we stayed over here at the Targee and then the next five nights I stayed at Gerald's place and then after that I stayed here at home. B; How soon after the flood were you able to return to your home? J: The next morning. B: How did you get there and what was your first reaction when you saw the destruction of your property? J: We just walked down here through the water and got the doors open. We started to shovel mud and dirt. We cleaned three rooms out that morning. B: How much water was still in the streets? J: I imagine about a foot. B: How much water got in your home? J: On the liying room floor it was a little better than eighteen up to twenty inches. B; What was the damage you suffered as a result of the flood? J; Everything that was on the floor of that was tn drawers or where it was up to about twenty-four inch level, of course, was soaked and wet and had to be thrown out or dried. You cared for it the best you could. B; What is the most cherished item that you lost? J; I suppose the most cherished itmes we lost were pictures and some of the history of my father `s life that he had written in two or three volumes. Lots of things you don't think amount to anything you don't even know you have got them until you want them and can't find them and then you begin to appreciate the fact that you will never see them again. B; What did you think about and how did you feel as you watched the flood waters rolling through the area? J: I wondered where the water came from, We were up on the hill and looking over west from us, we could see cars being tumbled over. Some cars, the water would
,I.1 U.1 U.1 1 1 1 U I U JOHNSON 5 raise them up and they would get their front wheels, up on the top of the other car and as we said in the beginning, all kinds of debris was in the water. Wood, cans, buckets, anything that you wanted to see, it seemed like it was there bobbing away. If you looked farther away you might see a building going, a little building floating away. I don't know how I felt. You just marveled at what water could do, I didn't know water could pick up things that were heavier than water, but it did, B; How many people were on the hill and what was their reaction? J: They were all excited, T guess there were hundreds up there and we just paced up and down that hill until, I imagine about 7:00 or so, it started to recede some. We could see it was going down a little. Then it wasn't long until we went up and went to bed. B; So their reaction was what? J: Some people were excited about it. Now- let's see, I didn't see a living thing, I did too. One of the neighbor girls over here had a couple of dogs and she had them on a leash up on the hill, tied up. I could hear them all right, They were excited. Some of the people had boots on, hips boots, and they would walk down here at the highway and they would try to get across the highway because their property was on the other side, but the stream was too swift for them. They couldn't do it, they would have to come back. One neighbor came down to the highway, walked up east and when he got east, he walked diagonally down west and crossed the highway in that way and got on to his. property. I don't know if it did him any good, but he got to the property anyway. B; How fast was the water going? J; It wasn't going too fast, I imagine it took possibly fifteen minutes for our garage and wood to move across the pasture and into Gerald's place, so it wasn't going too fast.
,I 1 ' U.1 U.1 U 1 1 U I U JOHNSON 6 B: How did you go about cleaning up your property? J: You try to evaluate what was to be done first, if that was possible. Whatever you thought would be for the best advantage, that is what you did. I started to work on the lawn and outside and got the walks cleaned and things like that. Others came and they worked in the house. B: What were some of the problems with which you were confronted that gave you the most frustrations? J: After we got the carpets out then, of course, we thought we would just sweep the dirt off and scrub the floor and it would be clean, You would scrub the floor and by the time you got it dry, it was messy again. You would sweep it again, you would mop it again and by the time it was dry, it was ready to be swept again. So, I finally got some old paint I had and as it had dried off, I painted it and that helped settle the dust better than anything that I could do. I don't know if that was anymore frustrating with me or anybody else but it was here and it was hard to do. The electric things, you didn't dare to turn them on because they had been in the water you know so you had to be-careful with that, too. I don't know what to say. It was a mess. B: Did you receive any help in cleaning up your property? J; Lots of help. David, my son, lives up at Teton. He had four or five men with him and they came up, I think, at least five days. Those five men and myself and one or two others pretty well cot the mud and the stuff out of the basement and got it cleaned up. We kind of got an idea of what we had to do. B: Have you had any unusual or uplifting experiences connected with the flood or cleanup operation? J; Well, the unusual thing that struck me was the willingness of people to come long distances every day for over a month. We would often count fifteen
,I 1 ' U.1 U.1 U 1 1 U I U JOHNSON 7 buses as they came in, they stopped across the street here at the church and that is where they got their assignments. There were thousands of people that came everyday, dozens of them came here, asked if I needed help and I didn't think I needed it because I thought there were others so much worse off. Then our bishop came to us and the Relief Society presidency and the neighbors came, too and asked if they could help. Even if they had more to do than I did, they came and asked anyway. B: Did you personally suffer any vandalism or any form of lawlessness? J: Not at all. B: What kind of government aid did you recetve immedi'ately after the flood? J: We were advised to come up to the college and the Red Cross was there. They asked us what we needed and what they could do to help us, if we had food and bedding and things like that. They wanted to know what we needed right at the time to tide ourselves over, B: Did HUD help you any? J: Yes. They came and made some sort of an evaluation and then they sent people, too. They took down the heat pipes from the furnace, washed them out and things like that. B; Did they give you a water heater? J: I got a water heater, they didnq give it to me. I bought, but it came through them, that's right. B; How did the BOP. treat you? J: All of them treated me fine, I don't know one from the other. I haven't had any unpleasant experiences at all in this. Everyone of them treated me very good. B: Then do you think that the BOR treated you fairly in your dealings with them? J: Yes, I think so.
,I.1 U.1 U.1 1 1 1 U I U JOHNSON 8 B; Do you feel that any who assisted in recovery operations took. advantage of you or the government, especially getting a lot of money without really earning it? J; Not that I know of. B; Without divulging any names, do you know of anyone who filed fraudulent flood claims? J; No, I don't. B; Do you feel that the flood was divine punishment or a man-made diaster? J; I don't know what it was. I don't know whyit should be called divine punishment. There is. a lesson in it if we are willing to adjust ourselves. to the results. It taught me a great lesson in the human family's love for a human. People. came here who didn't know us at all'and- they spent days and days helping us. They paid their own transportation, they brought food and they were as kind as humans could be. I' think. that it was one of the greatest eye openers tome that humanity is kind, when a disaster comes, B: Do you feel that the dam should be rebuilt? J; Yes. B; If so, should it be rebuilt in the same place? J; As far as I, am concerned if that is what those whb understand the situation feel is best, that is fine with. me. B; How has- the Teton Disaster changed your life? J: Well, I suppose that the biggest change is I couldn't conceive that a human family would be so kind in a general way and keep. helping, That is, when they weren't anymore concerned than they were here. The came. for hundreds of miles, some of them stayed here for two or three months. and that was one of the greatest blessings of my life. Humans have lots: of kindness in them if they are willing to accept it,
1 U 1 ' U.1 U.1.1 1 1 U 1 ' U JOHNSON 9 Did you go to the Bishop's. Storehouse and get commodities.? J; NQ. B; Did you eat your meals on campus? J: I had a few meals on campus. I guess maybe seven or eight, B: How was the atmosphere up there? J: It was fine. People were happy and they were chatting and having a good time. I wasn't hilarious, but the feeling was good and kind. B: Do you think that it was a good learning experience, then? J; Tremendously good. B: Do you think that it is a dry run for something bigger in our lives? J: It can be, if we let it be. People would again be kind, we may have the opportunity of reversing it and being kind to other people. If we have learned our lesson and it does come, I hope that we are willing to do our part as kindly and as happily and as appreciately as the people who came and worked for us. They gave their service to make us feel that they were interested in our lives and in our ability and in our making ourselves a home again. - B: Do you think that it was a good missionary tool? J; Yes, I do. B; Why? J: It was good for us to find out that we needed help. We worked no matter what our financial status was. When we get to a certain point we finally are willing to say, "I guess I better take help. I' can't do anything else I have got to take help." So we got that idea, I think, rather quickly that we could easily have things turn against us and we would need help, and we needed the experience to know that as they gave us help, we could give help in return. I think that it was a great missionary experience.
1 ',I 1 ' U.1 U.1.1 1 1 U JOHNSON 10 People learned of the organization of the church that they never knew existed. The found that we were already fully organized and able to care for the situation. We were glad to get help but we did have the organization and we just moved along and the church, it gave to the world a new idea of what the Mormon Church was able to do and what they did do, That they were a practical group of people that had tn mind the need of the human family and it's care. They were willing to do their part. T think it was a great eye opener to the public to see what the organization of the church really was. B: Did you go to President Kimball's assembly? J: Yes, I did. B: Would you like to describe the feelings of the people there? J: The people were true, They were there with their troubles but with the spirit of peace in his heart, the president was able to tell us in simple words and in a kind way, that work and service and devotion to purpose and faithfulness to the cause of righteousness would bring to us a new view of life and a new light in our attitude toward other men as well as toward the government-and those who are helping. B: What did you think about the Appreciation Day which was held in June? J: I was disappointed in the Appreciation Day. I thought there would be a lot of people locally that would take an interest in it. I rather think that our local people felt, that is those who were in charge, were disappointed in we local people that didn't turn out with greater number and with a greater feeling of an expression of appreciation for those who had helped us. B: Is there anything else you would like to add? J; I think that this is a great opportunity in our lives to have something as big and as challenging come to our lives and to be able to make up our minds that this is our home, we are going to make the best of it. It has always
,It U, It U.1I U.1I, I 1 IIU, U It U JOHNSON been a good place and it is going to continue to be a good place to live. So I think that there are may cood things that will settle down and become a part of our lives as we go on in this reconstruction work. 8: Did you write any poems or stories about the flood? J: I have a note of two here that might be of some interest. Qne is dated June 5, 1976; Life in the Snake River Valley is unnormal this morning. 11:45 am, June 5: Attention, everyone, everything!` man has discarded one of nature's laws. Now comes new rewards, new compensations, new harvests and man's ability to understand nature's laws are limited. On June 18, I have this notation; Peace. Quirks of nature and of men combine to bless, chastise and then open the gates of brotherhood, of charity, of peace, of service, and understanding. Brothers and sisters found they must come in search of shelter, food and homes. Life for everyone means contentment but homes were viciously destroyed in the wild course of the river's run. Oh Father, we need Thy strength, They enduring love, Thy charity, Thy understanding so we may share. Preserve, refresh, keep and be fair. During the time of sharing our care, give us patience, understanding, knowledge and comfort from above. Help us share so no one has: lost his all. Help us to love, to care, to know, give sympathy and feel charity through prayer. Help us find a solution men can bear as they seek Thy shelter and Thy care. The storm is past, the sky is clear. Thanks Lord for our faith, our ability to avoid fear. May Thy people always be prepared that Thy eternal abundance they may share. So help us always so sweetly share. Remember as neighbors to give and to be fair that men's heart's shall grow and fill with love, even overflow. --Carl J. Johnson August 18, 1976 11
1 ',I 1 ' U.1 U.1.1 1 1 U JOHNSON 12 B; Thank you very much, Mr. Johnson. This. tape will be placed in the library at Rick's College and at Utah, State University and the Idaho Historical. Society.