The Axe Files - Ep. 21: Mary Kay Henry

The Axe Files - Ep. 21: Mary Kay Henry Released January 7, 2016 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And now from the University of Chicago Institute of Politics, "The Axe Files" with your host David Axelrod. DAVID AXELROD, "THE AXE FILES" HOST: When you look at the changing face of America and the changing face of the American Labor Movement, you need look no further than the face of Mary Kay Henry, the president of the Service Employees Union, the fastest growing union in America. Almost 2 million members and counting. I sat down with Mary Kay the other day at the IOP for a discussion about where we are in terms of wages, in terms of labor, in terms of politics. And she was honest, candid, hopeful and a little bit scary. Mary Kay Henry, president of the SEIU, so happy to have you here at the IOP. MARY KAY HENRY, PRESIDENT, SEIU: Glad to be here, David. AXELROD: So looking across the table, the first thing that occurs to me is, you know, when you mention labor leaders to the average person, they think of guys with 18-inch collars and big, beefy hands, and that's not you. HENRY: Right. But we love those guys. AXELROD: Yes. I'm not talking to them in any way. HENRY: Right, right, right. AXELROD: But you are -- but your route to this job is entirely different than the route that people traditionally think of as the path to being the leader of a labor union in a sense it reflects the changing nature of labor and the changing nature of the country. But talk a little bit about who you are and how you got to this point. How you grew up and what lead you to join the labor movement. HENRY: Well, I think I got to this point because I believe and have experienced in the power of a group. I was born as the third oldest in a family of 10 children. AXELROD: In Detroit. HENRY: In Detroit. And I think the things that have influenced me the most are my family, my faith as a catholic and the union. Those three things have given me the experience of -- as the oldest sister having to round up my nine brothers and sisters and get them to the bus stop on time. Fix lunches, make sure people had the right clothes. That was my job every morning. And so, I figured out how to get other people to help me and how much more fun it could be that we could accomplish things together. AXELROD: But your parents, just to be clear, they were not in the labor movement? HENRY: No, not at all. AXELROD: Your father was a salesman, is that right? 1

HENRY: Yes, he was a door to door salesman. AXELROD: And what did your mom do? HENRY: My mom was a teacher in the public schools in Detroit initially. And then when she had her third child, she would just substitute teach from child 3 to child 10 and then she went back to teaching full-time once my youngest brother got into kindergarten. AXELROD: And she was -- was she in a teacher's union then? HENRY: She was not. It was before the teacher's union in Detroit and then she was in catholic schools that were non-union in the Northwest Suburbs. AXELROD: And you went to college in Michigan or? HENRY: At Michigan State, yes. AXELROD: And not in -- what was your focus? It was like urban planning -- HENRY: I was urban planning. I really wanted to -- my big dream was to revitalize the city of Detroit. AXELROD: Still worthy a dream. HENRY: Yes, it's still worthy a dream. And when I -- AXELROD: By the way, just to interrupt for a second, things seemed to be happening in Detroit -- AXELROD: Did you get back there at all? I was in the Turkey tribe at Thanksgiving down Woodward Avenue. AXELROD: Is that right? HENRY: I was. Yes, with my six brothers and sisters. AXELROD: Wow. You must have taken the whole lane. HENRY: We did. We did. AXELROD: How -- and how did that city look to you? HENRY: You know, it's coming back. There's -- it's still like I would say the center city sees possibilities. It's unclear to me that the neighborhoods like -- I went to church with my mom at Gesu at 6:00 in Woodward where I was first born and where she grew up. That neighborhood is not in any better shape at the moment. And so I think the struggle for that city is how everybody is a part of the recovery, just like it is for the entire nation at this moment. 2

AXELROD: Exactly. AXELROD: So, anyway, so you grew up there, you went to Michigan State. And I was in -- I was doing a lot of lesbian women's organizing as a student. [0:05:03] And the most influential women were from the United Auto Workers. AXELROD: I think we should stop there because we shouldn't let that just go by because that's one other way in which you're not -- HENRY: I'm a little different -- yes. AXELROD: -- than a typical labor leader. HENRY: Right. AXELROD: So you knew from -- you were active from an early age on the -- you knew who you were and you acted on it? And I was part of the campus organizing that was happening in the mid '70s around the women's movement. And I was a part of sort of the lesbian influence of the women's movement at least in East Lansing, Michigan at that time. I didn't have the kind of global perspective that I have now about what was happening in that movement. AXELROD: Let me just push a little further on this. You came -- you said from this large Catholic family. HENRY: Correct. AXELROD: So, how -- what kinds of challenges did that pose to you in coming out and -- AXELROD: -- and being who you are. I think what prevailed in my coming out in my family is that my parents acted out of love. And because they loved me, they were uncomfortable for my safety I think because there were beatings of gay people that were pretty well-publicized at that time in the early to mid '70s, late '70s in Michigan. And so, their biggest concern for me was my safety. But they were completely accepting of me. And I was very fortunate in that regard, I think. My friends -- I had a lot -- I lost a lot of friends when I came out because -- AXELROD: How old are you? HENRY: I was 17. And so, a lot of my high school and then early college friends, because of our 3

religious practice, thought there was something wrong with me. AXELROD: Did you go to a Catholic school? HENRY: I did. I did. Grade school and high school and I went to one-year at public school in Michigan when the Catholic schools were too full. AXELROD: And you're -- so you were in high school when you came out? AXELROD: And how did the school itself respond to that? HENRY: I was in an all-girl's Catholic school. And I think the women religious there were, again, very unusual for the time in the sense that I was not isolated. I was not bullied. The kinds of things that you hear that happened to kids in school. But mostly, it was a good Irish Catholic response which was not to talk about it. AXELROD: Yes. HENRY: You know? And so, I didn't either feel accepted or welcomed. I felt tolerated, is the better way to describe it. AXELROD: What about by the church itself, you're still a practicing -- HENRY: I am. AXELROD: Catholic. HENRY: I am. AXELROD: Did you feel accepted by the church? HENRY: Not at all. I think the institutional church has a long way to go. I'd say my parish in San Francisco and my parish in D.C. are incredibly open and welcoming. And I think that what Pope Francis has done to talk about a year of mercy dealing with the -- not judging, like who am I to judge, has opened up a completely new conversation. My mother is now participating in LGBT exploration in our parish in Northwest Suburbs of Detroit that would have never happened without Pope Francis. So it's incredible. AXELROD: Yes. And we should get back -- we'll get back to him -- HENRY: OK. AXELROD: --because he relates to other issues that you worked on -- HENRY: Yes, he does. He does. 4

AXELROD: -- as well. So, when last we left you, you were -- HENRY: Yes, I was in Michigan State. AXELROD: -- still in Michigan State in urban planning, and so how did you move from there to the labor movement? HENRY: Well, I was a work-study student all through college. And every one of those works study experiences introduced me to unions, I would say. I was a student worker and as a janitor in the student union. The rest of the full-time workers were union members. Some of the best experiences I had, I was taken under the wing of the union stewards to kind of show me the ropes. And I experienced in that those early work experiences, the power again of people being in an organization and being able to think about each others in ways that supervisors could never imagine how workers look out for each other and help each other. You know, I fell asleep in a closet because I was, you know, studying too much. I ended up having mononucleosis. The union steward helped me out. Then UAW women -- AXELROD: I could advice you on that. [0:10:00] HENRY: You could have? AXELROD: I would have told you not to study, so that's how I got through it. HENRY: Right, right. And then UAW women were incredibly influential in the women's organizing that was happening on campus and they were very -- they were community members that we had like student community organizing happening in East Lansing around reproductive health hazards on the assembly line. Which I got really interested in because I was part of the MPRG (ph) organization in East Lansing and my student work study assignment that year was to help lobby on health hazards in the state legislature. And so I got to meet these women and I was just so kind of mesmerized by how they thought about action and it was so resonant with being the oldest sister organizing people in a group, that I got really attracted to the idea of working with them full time. And so, I did a second major in labor industrial relations in my junior and senior year, and I tried to go work the UAW just because of the experience of seeing how these women move together. AXELROD: And what happened there? HENRY: They -- AXELROD: Who change the course to history? HENRY: Right. Well the UAW did not hire from outside the ranks at that time. This goes to your first point about SEIU was a way in for somebody like me that didn't grow up in a union family, didn't grow up through union jobs. And the president of SEIU at that time wanted young people out of colleges to come into SEIU to help and fuse (ph) the organization. And the UWA said that if I went and got a PhD in 5

Economics, I could be in their research department. AXELROD: OK. HENRY: So instead Olga Madar who was an founding member of The Coalition of Labor Union Woman, saw me wandering around Solidarity House and went up to me and said what can I do to help you? Because as a woman trade union leader, she had a commitment to younger women coming into the movement. And she connected me to Joyce Miller in New York who was part of the American Clothing Textile Workers Union. And then she connected me to June McMahon at the SEIU. And that's how -- I didn't know what SEIU was when I was 20. AXELROD: And you went to California. HENRY: Well, at first, I was interviewed in D.C. and they gave me a math test, and I had a test to write a speech for -- AXELROD: A math test? HENRY: A math test, because I was going to be a researcher. AXELROD: I see. HENRY: And I failed the math test and then I was supposed to look at a newspaper article about the corruption -- AXELROD: I don't even understand what the math test has to do. HENRY: Averaging wages. If you're going to be an assistant of the bargaining table, can you do average wage? Can you figure out percentage increases? Can you do the formulas on pensions? That was the -- AXELROD: I guess you have some folks to help you with that. HENRY: I do. I mentioned folks who helped me with it now, since I'm failed then. This is like total serendipity working. I think of it, frankly, as the hand of God, you know? Because I failed the math test, I passed the speech test. They like what I said about the corrupt union official that I was supposed to write a speech for because he had been smeared in the newspaper for his handling of finances. And I was walking out having -- I thought lost the job and a friend of -- AXELROD: What did you write for the corrupt union official? Just in case there are corrupt union officials listening, there may be some tips for them. HENRY: I had him own what he had done and asked for forgiveness of the members and then commit to correctly what he had done like to -- AXELROD: My goodness, you could have been a political consultant. HENRY: Really? Yes, he had no idea at that time. It was pure instinct, and I thought for sure it must be 6

not the right thing to do in a labor movement, you know, at the -- AXELROD: But they appreciated it. And then this woman saw me leaving, she knew me from the high school I went to. She ran down to the guy that was saying no to me and said I know this woman, I know her family, I think you should give her a chance. That's how I got the freaking job. I mean, it was -- and then they sent me to California, that it was a training program that was modeled after the Peace Corps where you earn $12,000 a year and they trained you for a year and then they -- you agreed to go anywhere in the country for three years to pay the union back for the investment in you. AXELROD: And California was an interesting place -- HENRY: Oh my gosh. AXELROD: -- to be because of the influx of immigrants, young Americans, and so on. AXELROD: Who were very prevalent in the service industry. AXELROD: So what did you learn through those experiences? HENRY: Well, there was an intention to introduce you to every part of the membership. So I worked with janitors organizing in the suburbs because they were part-time in the suburbs, full-time in the city. We were trying to raise the wages. [0:15:12] I worked with Kaiser Permanente because Kaiser it agreed to do childcare on site and there was a committee that I staffed of women that work figuring out how to do 24/7 childcare for healthcare workers. I did wage surveys. I actually figured out my math problem when I wasn't under the gun and for all the public workers in California and compared city, county, state wages. I learned from this man that did the War Labor Board for our union after World War II, who was at that sort of end of his career and was an incredible gift to me because I was not welcomed. I was the one of the first women hired in this job. They did not really want women. All the people ahead of me had been white men. Primarily, there were few African-American men. AXELROD: And about as a lesbian woman? HENRY: You know, in San Francisco -- AXELROD: I see. HENRY: -- in 1980, that was not -- that wasn't an issue as long as I was performing. When I went to L.A. actually -- six months in San Francisco, six months in L.A.. When I went to L.A. it was a bigger problem, especially with the members, you know. And I had a lot of experiences where I learned fundamentally, something that has guided me as president that the power of the union is that what ever discrimination we 7

may feel towards each other in our neighborhoods or our schools, when it comes to the workplace, the people are willing to have each other's back in a way that wasn't my lived experience in the broader society. And that if you use the building of worker organization and union correctly, you can really hardwire into any person from any walk of life and openness to embrace what you have never grown up with. AXELROD: You know, I remember when I was a reporter in 1984, and I think it was then that I ran into Jesse Jackson in campaigning in Iowa, you know, wide-state (ph) and I remember a line he had which was "we're all the same color when the plant lights go out." Which was an out of powerful line. HENRY: Exactly. Exactly. AXELROD: Powerful line. HENRY: Exactly. AXELROD: So, what it would -- let's jump forward to today. Where do you see the labor movement? You lead a union that's actually growing, almost 2 million members and growing. Because the service sector has grown, but a lot of the labor movement is not growing -- HENRY: Right. AXELROD: -- and labor standing -- public standing has suffered, assess the state of labor movement today. HENRY: I would say that the in my lifetime, the labor movement has not been at a more critical point. I feel like we are at a make or break moment of whether workers ability to come together and improve their lives is a question. Because of the sort of systematic attack on organization and because of the labor movement's unwillingness to respond to what's coming at us, and because of a politics in the country that doesn't see how essential worker organization is to our economic and democratic life that there's all these forces happening that has makes us -- I think we have to stop looking at the way things were. I call it the rearview mirror and think forward to the next generation and what decisions are we going to make that are going to create the next form of workers collective power in our economy and democracy. AXELROD: What you think it is that the standing of labor among Americans has fallen and you were at a time where inequality, the flattening of wages and so on are front and center issues for most Americans, and yet they do not think of labor necessarily as the -- or collective bargaining as the answer. HENRY: As a party solution. AXELROD: Yes. HENRY: Right. Exactly. AXELROD: Why? HENRY: I think because we -- in '74, if we kind of peaked in 1974 in setting wages and conditions for the majority of people that work for a living, you know, an hourly and because we then kind of went into a crouch in thinking about how to protect our pensions and health care and started bargaining wage 8

increases a wave to maintain our health care and pension benefits in the '60s and '70s and '80s. [0:20:18] We ceased to be irrelevant to the majority of working people. We were no longer a catalyst for creating a better life for everybody. We became protecting very protection of our own membership and so the 35 million people that used to have collective organization is now down to 16 million. And by next summer, it's -- we're going to lose another 2 million because of a Supreme Court case for the public sector where public sector workers organizations will no longer be allowed to have union shops. Everybody will be a voluntary member. And I think that means that we'll -- another chunk of the movement will be gone and depending on the outcome of the U.S. presidential election, and 18 governor's elections, we could see more right to work activity which will weaken worker organization as well. So that's one set of facts. The other is -- AXELROD: Quite largest to have you -- the right to work element of this discussion, that's clearly an agenda that the right has pushed -- HENRY: -- and with some success. I mean, the state -- you could never have imagined as a young person in State of Michigan and Michigan would be a right to work state. But the argument is that people shouldn't have money deducted from their paycheck involuntarily. HENRY: Right. AXELROD: And that is found some resonance with people who actually, on the basis of their economic interests, should not feel that way. Why is that? Why do people not see the connection between what unions have done in their own self-interest? HENRY: I think because we are no longer raising wages for the entire country. And so in '74, when workers bargained their wages up, it changed the service in industrial economy for everybody. And now when workers wages are raised in a unionized setting, it has no impact on nonunion because our -- this -- what you said that stagnation of wages across the economy and growing income inequality and the shrinking of the labor movement means that what were doing no longer matters and we created this ethos of, if you -- if I can have a pension, why should you as opposed to -- when the '70s -- when people said how can I get a job that guarantees me a pension. Like you've got it, I wanted too. And I think that's the moment that we have -- we can re-spark. I think we have to acknowledge as a movement that we need to build a voluntary organization of workers like the rest of the globe has. And we found in our home care and child care units because they were ordered by the court last summer to be open shop that there's incredible resilience on the part of our home care and child care leaders who said no court decisions going to stand in the way of us joining together to fight for elders in the disabled, the people that we care about in that we serve, and for ourselves. And so, for minimum wage, poverty, jobs that we've taken the $15 an hour jobs with health care, sick leave, pensions in some cases, in about 14 states in the country, those women, primarily women of color are bound and determined to build a powerful voluntary organization. And I think that we're committed to making that happen across the public service sector as well. And it's why we've supported the fast food 9

workers movement because we believe that all workers across the servicing care sector can join together and do for the U.S. economy. What industrial workers did in the last century when auto steel and rubber workers joined together and raised wages in that sector. It transformed the economy and created a middle class. I think we have the potential to do that again. AXELROD: I want to pursue that in the second but this is not an idea the necessarily would be embraced by your brothers and sisters in the leadership of other unions, is that fair to say? HENRY: I think that's fair. I think that because of the systematic attack, David, that many of my brothers and sisters in the labor movement are waking up to the fact that whether or not we want to advocate, it's happening to us. And so, I'm trying to make the case across the American labor movement. [0:25:02] Let's embrace the idea that creating an organization where people can choose to join and change not only their economic life but the economic life of everybody in this country is something that I think we have found with fast food home care, child care, adjunct professors, airport workers, there's huge interest in people being able to join something where they believe they can make a difference in their life, but also have a fighting chance for their kids. AXELROD: So in your -- when you make that presentation, people who support right to work laws which I'm aware on the same page with you because we don't think -- we think people should voluntarily associate with these organizations. We don't think that they should be compelled to. And those same people are suppressing 5 million votes through the worst voter rights, you know, and going after Planned Parenthood funding and everything that we hold dear is being eviscerated by the people that are saying that in the right to work movement. So I wouldn't say that it may be that the means that we have are the same, but our ends are totally -- AXELROD: How much do you think the anti-union movement is motivated by trying to reduce the influence of unions in our politics? HENRY: That's what we hear when we listen to the CPAC. You know, Grover Norquist last year at a CPAC conference said, did a presentation with Scott Walker as an example in saying here's the cookbook for how to eliminate the influence of unions in the politics of every state. And, you know, they had Scott Walker do his presentation about it first. I did this, then I did this and then he passed right to work and, you know, we've lost just in the last four years, probably 300,000 union members in the State of Wisconsin alone. AXELROD: And it's had a political impact. HENRY: Yes, exactly. So, I don't know if it's motivated that way, David, because I have to tell you, my thought is that it's much motivated by a corporate agenda that seeks to not have government act as a leveler of being able to level the playing field between the influence of the wealthy and corporations in the democracy. And so, it could -- but again I think that's more of a means than it is that the actual end here is, you know, how do we have -- how do we act out of a value that were all in this together that we are our brothers and sisters keeper in that we want a nation where on people have a shot at being able to work hard and have their kids do better. And those are fundamental things that are threatened by the agenda that is being driven by the same people on right to work climate change, women's health, LGBT equality, immigrant justice, and the rest. 10

AXELROD: How do you persuade people that there is an image, I think it's fair to say, of union leadership as a brand of politician in their own right? They have their own constituency and they are, you know, they do what they need to do to sustain themselves in office. I think that's partly the image that some members of -- some union members have of their leadership. What would you do to combat that? HENRY: Well, I think we do it by acting as movement leaders. I'd say more and more of the American labor movement. I think see themselves -- I think of myself, both as a leader of SEIU, the institution, but also a piece of a movement leadership where I have to use the institution to fuel the black lives matter movement, the immigrant justice movement, because our members are the people and leaders in their communities that are helping to fuel each of those movements. And so, I think we combat the image by showing up in each other's fights and having our members tell these incredibly compelling stories about their lives and how their organization has transformed their ability to participate in the democracy and to make a change in the economic well-being of their communities. AXELROD: So let's go to fast food workers you've been very visible organizing outside of fast food restaurants. McDonalds is been a particular target, but so far there has been a lot of movement on this. What -- and you've been at -- what about a year now? HENRY: We -- I think the fast food workers in Brooklyn struck in November 2012 after the president's reelection. [0:30:07] AXELROD: So, where is this going in and what's your level of confidence that something is going to happen here? HENRY: Well, we feel really proud of the progress we have made in changing the debate on wages in this country. We think that the courage and fearlessness of people like, Terrence Wise in Kansas City, who is a 36-year-old, second-generation fast food worker, his mom is a fast food worker in North Carolina. He earns $9 an hour after 19 years of work. His fiancée is a homecare worker. You know he does two and three jobs to try and do right by his three kids and has been transformed by the opportunity to be a leader in an organization where the fullness of his potential is being realized. And that's happening for tens of thousands of fast food workers across the country. AXELROD: And that is valuable, but so is money in your paycheck. So when is it going to translate into that? HENRY: Well 11 million people have gotten minimum wage increases since this campaign started. And it hasn't been just this campaign. I think the president in the State of the Union leaned in on minimum wage. I think governors and mayors like the City of Seattle had a political debate. We financed an initiative at SeaTac on the $15 minimum wage as a way to kind of kick start what was seen as this bold dream and now has become a legitimate demand and a new benchmark. And so, we think those things have been incredibly valuable and have infused -- it has changed the bargaining in our union. Like, we now go to homecare and nursing home bargaining tables and the employers put their hands up and say, "We know. There is going to be a $15 minimum demand and we want you to know that we think we got to get there but we're not going to be able to do it in one bump. It's going to have to be over the -- "that's a huge sea change, David, from bargaining three years ago when people were getting zero. AXELROD: And this -- By the way, this sector home here -- healthcare. You know, healthcare workers generally given the aging of the population is going to be a blooming -- 11

HENRY: The fastest-growing job in the economy. There is 2 million today and by 2025, there is going to be another million. And by 2030, I think they project yet another million because of the escalation of aging. And because people want to be able to live independently. AXELROD: -- yeah. HENRY: You know on the shift, and frankly, the Affordable Care Act has created more choices for the entire population. And so, yeah we think there is an incredible potential across the servicing care sector to build new unions. AXELROD: The -- My father-in-law just passed away this past year, he is 99 years old. In his final years, he had a really wonderful guy who worked came through a healthcare agency who worked with him. There be -- They bonded in a way that was really touching. HENRY: Yeah. AXELROD: But he, the guy who worked for him, was making through the agency $10 an hour. And he was providing life-sustaining. HENRY: Right. AXELROD: Kind of attention. HENRY: Right. AXELROD: And we tried to help him along the way. But there are millions of people like him. HENRY: Right. And these are jobs as you know that have never been valued in our economy. They were jobs that were excluded from Social Security. They are excluded from fair labor standards. President Obama was the first person to recognize overtime for these workers who often worked many volunteer hours because of that bond. And I think because it's considered women's work and care work. It's never been valued in the way that auto jobs -- AXELROD: Well, if you are the fan -- if you are a member of a family and you have a loved one who needs care, you value it. HENRY: Exactly. AXELROD: The Affordable Care Act. You mentioned that there are a lot of stresses and strains on the Affordable Care Act right now. You know I was in the White House when we fought very hard to pass it. And I am proud of that, but also we dealt with a lot of rearguard actions to try. AXELROD: And undo it, what is your view of the Affordable Care Act and what's the future for it? HENRY: Well we celebrate it every day and we're incredibly grateful for the president's steadfast 12

leadership on pushing against enormous headwinds. Not just to pass the thing but to defend it every -- seems like every six months, we're having to re-defend it in front of the Supreme Court or this crazy Congress, or something. And our members were delighted to go into Latino Communities, especially, to get through the fear of signing up. And we're incredibly proud to have been part of the ground troops that helped get the 12 million additional people covered in this country. We're thrilled that 100 million people can go to bed at night not worrying about pre-existing conditions and the threat of medical bankruptcy. [0:35:09] It's -- I find us as a reminder of what's good about it. We agree there's pieces that need to be fixed and strengthened, but you're going to have to ring this out of our cold, dead hands before we'll ever going to allow this country to go back from where we're at. AXELROD: You know the problem with the Affordable Care Act just as a -- I mean, there are real problems, the high deductibility -- AXELROD: -- the absence of -- or the relative lack of young, healthy people, joining. HENRY: Yeah. AXELROD: Which is -- In which the economics of it rest and if there are people listening who haven't -- you know, you should look into that. But you mentioned some benefits that accrue to every American who has insurance, as well as people who don't have insurance. But to look like labor, you know, you win these guarantees and these securities, but people don't associate them with you. Sometimes they don't even know they have them until they experience -- HENRY: A crisis. AXELROD: -- a crisis. And so, very -- the program isn't credited with affording people, those kinds of guarantees, even though they are there. HENRY: Right. AXELROD: It is a difficult problem. Let's talk a little bit about politics in the time we have left. Your union has endorsed Hillary Clinton for president. I want to ask you about that because, as you know, Bernie Sanders has run a very strong, progressive campaign. And you would think that there were segments of your union that would respond very strongly to that. But you went for an early endorsement of Hillary, explain why? HENRY: You know she met with our homecare and childcare leaders. And did a roundtable where those leaders came back to our executive board and talked about how they felt she really got the value of homecare and childcare work in a way that they had not experienced from any other candidate. And so, that's one of the biggest reasons I would say we went for it. The second is we have a union that is deeply committed to citizenship for every undocumented worker and person in this country, and we feel like she was stand up in every way on immigration. And we -- I do acknowledge that even today, David, as we sit here, having endorsed. There are incredibly electrified volunteer members of ours that are working for the Sanders' campaign, but I believe 13

that over the course of the next four months we are going to unite our union on the 15 in a union voter agenda that we have that includes home care and childcare jobs, being living wage jobs, black lives matter, getting acknowledged by the presidential campaigns, and citizenship for immigrants which is kind of the core agenda. That we're signing up voters on everywhere in the country and throughout our membership, while at the same time working really hard off of the early caucus states for Hillary Clinton. AXELROD: Yeah, that's why I want to ask you about that because Iowa looms, February 1st. AXELROD: And it's a very big test if -- I am of the opinion that if Hillary wins Iowa, that she will be the nominee of the party. I think she probably is the nominee anyway and I say that as someone who has deep respect for Bernie Sanders. HENRY: Yeah. AXELROD: Our first Pod Cast guest. HENRY: Oh? Great! AXELROD: But my -- But what are you going to be doing in these early states in Iowa, in New Hampshire to secure victory? How much in terms of resources, manpower, and so on, to help her prevail in those context? HENRY: Well, immediately after our endorsement and Iowa where we did have pushbutton poll with every Iowa member. To identify early support quickly and then we moved a team into Iowa that is working with our local leader, who is part of a coordinated labor campaign, we're not running a separate operation from the rest of labor but we're going deep in our membership. And then we did -- Our biggest concentration of members is in Iowa City with University of Iowa Medical Center. And so, we did a special registered nurse event with Hillary Clinton there to help bring excitement. And then we have a volunteer groups moving in from Michigan, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Missouri in the next two weeks. That -- Some of the buses have left Minnesota today. I'm going to be there this coming weekend to do volunteer recruitment that is targeted on caucus turnout and Geo TV. That's has been part of an operation that we folded into, that was happening by the Clinton Campaign before that. [0:40:03] AXELROD: How important do you think it is to end process quickly? HENRY: You know, I actually think that the process that Senator Sanders has made a huge contribution to the debate, and that it's the process has actually helped sharpen the contrast between the values that Democrats stand for in this country, and the very dangerous debate that is happening in the Republican Party. And so, I have to tell you, I am not as concerned about the timing of our process as I am about how to push back against what is happening on the Republican side of this debate. I am deeply concerned about what is stirring even in our membership, David. We are -- Our members are responding to Trump's message, and hate, and divisiveness, and so the other piece of what we're doing right now is we're going into hyper-drive, especially in the pockets of our membership that have a lot of Muslim leaders. To stand against what is being said because he, as you can see and I have heard you 14

comment on, he has touched this vein. And so we are very concerned, and we feel like again Hillary Clinton and Senator Sanders have been really good about objecting quickly and using their bully pulpits to help dial this down. But this ad that Trump released today -- AXELROD: Yes. HENRY: Is you know, horrific in my mind and reminds me of Pete Wilson in California, on proposition 226. AXELROD: The P.Wilson One. HENRY: I know, I know, that's why I am -- I think this is a very dangerous political moment in our country. AXELROD: Could you see Donald Trump actually winning? HENRY: Yeah, I could. I could. AXELROD: And why do you think he appeals to your members, or some of your members? HENRY: I think he is touching this vein of the terrible anxiety that working-class people feel about their current status, but more importantly how terrified they are for their kids not being able to do as bad as well, as they have never mind doing better. You know so that broken sense of the future and not that emotion having an easier appeal to fear than to, what is possible. Is what we found is why it is so -- we're doing one on one's with every one of our members right now in this period. The 64 percent of our public members identify as conservative. And are much more interested in the Republican debate than the Democratic debate at this moment. AXELROD: Isn't part of the problem Mary Kay that wages have basically been flat. Median wages have been flat for a, I think good 90 percent of Americans have a raise, in constant dollars of 22 years, we've got the same median wage as we had in 1999. And politicians every four years say we're going to do something about that and nothing happens. Doesn't that sort of ripen the field for someone like Trump to come along and say, the politicians have failed you, I'll take care of it? HENRY: Yes, I agree. That is the sort of Petri dish that allows that fear to get stoked. And I think the contrast that we're trying to create is somebody like Governor Cuomo, of all people, was willing to step out and order a wage board that hadn't been used since 1955 in New York and that caused six dollar wage increase over the next five years for 200,000 fast food workers in New York. And frankly, David, that is what we're saying to fast food workers around the country. Your vote does matter because you can elect a politician that could actually take action that would make difference on your wages, either through minimum wage or demanding wage boards, or -- are, so we are trying to make this direct link as the antidote to the fear that is being stoked by somebody. AXELROD: You know you look at the map of Democratic appeal, Republican appeal, of Trump's appeal, and so on. It has a very regional skew. You know, Democrats have been become a bicoastal party very strong on the East Coast, and West Coast, and the middle of the country, not so much in the South, very difficult. Do you have those same difficulties as a leader of a national union? Do you find those same regional differences as you travel around and sound out the views of your members? [0:45:00] HENRY: That's a good question. I would say that our white conservative membership that is -- 15

that we hear are responding to the Trump appeal are more concentrated in the Midwest and the South. But this is why they want to tear down worker organizations, when people are in an organization, that is providing different information and is creating circles of conversation where people trust each other. We can be the antidote in getting people to think about how Trump isn't saying anything that's responding to the basic problem. Trump actually said wages are too high, taxes are too high. People need to work their way up into the -- I don't know if you heard what he said on the minimum wage. It was an outrage. So we're like, pumping that. You know our membership. Because he's just not going to deal with the basic economic anxiety. And it's our job to help communicate that to those members -- AXELROD: It is very effective, haven't you seen the apprentice? It always ends up... HENRY: He's just going to fire people. Yeah. Exactly! It was like what -- it's just absurd. AXELROD: Yeah. HENRY: But that absurd thing. AXELROD: But I think you have touched on the core of it, which is that, you know, in a country with stagnant wages and people who see their prospects diminishing and their children's prospects diminishing, that is right territory for a guy like him. HENRY: Right. AXELROD: To come along -- I mean, we have seen it before in history. So, the last point, I think a good place to end this. Where 10 years from now, do you see the American Labor Movement? HENRY: I see a vibrant, growing, 21st century organization of workers, millions more workers, joining organizations to raise their wages either directly with their employers or through a government. That they are going to transform because more and more of those workers are going to decide to participate in politics because they are going to understand the direct connection that if they show up, they can demand government officials acting on their behalf. And I think, it's not going to look like today's labor movement. And I think, there is going to be a new part of the labor movement that deals with how do we have portable benefits for the growth of the independent contractor, form of employment that's happening in the so-called gig or sharing economy that's happening. And there's lots of good, little innovations happening, some of which were part of others, of which we're just trying to help resource and finance. I think leadership is really key and the thing -- Terrence Wise was this fast food worker that introduced President Obama at this Worker Voice Summit, last in several of the members of the cabinet that were sitting in front of me turned to me and said, "Wow, he is just incredibly at such presence in telling the story and introducing the president and -- " I said to them, there are tens of thousands of Terrence Wises around. So I think, the other thing is like unlocking the leadership that exists of people that are making magic happen in their lives while they are living in poverty, but are taking the time to build new organization, I think it's incredibly inspiring to me. And so it is going to be a very, I think you are going to see another big hit to the American Labor Movement this year, and how we respond to the hit, and then how we do in this Presidential Election, I think are the breakthrough moments for the next surge in workers forming organizations like we did in the 30s. I think we will see another period like that. 16

AXELROD: Well, now we have this recorded. So I'm going to have to be back in 10 years, now hopefully many times that you have been chewing. HENRY: We'll be looking back at anything, shit can you believe how income equality has been reduced and one in five kids are not going to bed hungry, and there isn't that disparity in education anymore. AXELROD: We're putting this recording in the time capsule. HENRY: OK, great, fabulous. AXELROD: And we're going to open it up, but I will say this when you look at the face of the future labor movement. I think we are looking at yours. And it is -- it's great to have you here. HENRY: Great, thank you for having me. AXELROD: Sure. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for listening to "The Axe Files". For more podcasts like this, subscribe to "The Axe Files" on itunes. And for more programming from University of Chicago Institute of Politics, visit politics.uchicago.edu. 17