Parenting with Presence Parenting Adult Children with Presence with Kim Eng March 19, 2014 [0:00:00] Welcome to the Parenting with Presence Summit. I'm Susan Stiffelman. I'm your host and this is a production of The Shift Network. I'm so glad that you're all with us today and so very happy to welcome my heart sister and friend Kim Eng. Kim, welcome. I'm glad you're here. Thank you, Susan, for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here and to speak about Parenting with Presence. Wonderful. Kim was born in Vancouver. She travels the north extensively with her partner and associate, Eckhart Tolle, who as we all know is the author of the Power of Now and A New Earth. As a counselor and a public speaker, Kim, you focus on the transformation of consciousness through the integration of body, mind and spirit. Kim has developed her own teaching modality through her presence, through movement workshops; and she also writes and speaks on the subject of cultivating presence in our everyday lives and having raised her daughter as a single mother has a special interest in applying this to parenting. Kim has produced numerous CDs and DVDs and online videos including Presence Through Movement, Yin Yoga and Meditations for a New Earth, and the one that I really like the title of, Resist Nothing. Anyway, your practice can help parents and children regain a balance between the yin and yang and puts us in touch with who we are at the core of our being so that we as well as our children can blossom into our life's purpose, which is the awakening of consciousness. I'm very happy you're here. I'm so happy that we get to connect with parents around the world. Wherever you are, wherever you're listening from, know that we're honored to be part of your day to day. And Kim, I'm glad you're here. Thank you. We have such an interesting unfolding, you and I. Do you want to share our little story of how we've met? It's just sweet. Kim Eng p. 1
I love how we met, Susan. With such a synchronistic event, our team with Eckhart Tolle's office, looking for people to write in our newsletter and I believe somehow you crossed paths with somebody at our office. In an elevator. In an elevator, that's right. But I didn't know this. All I know is sometimes we would get this list of names of who would like to write in our newsletter and your name was there. I believe maybe it was even chosen at that point. I can't remember. I think so. I think I had just actually submitted my first article for the Eckhart Tolle newsletter. Right, okay. So anyways, Eckhart and I, we both did not read that article yet but we knew the name. We recognized the name. But anyways, we haven't met you. And Eckhart and I were wanting to find a little vacation rental place in Malibu where you live. So we drove to Malibu and we walked into this home and we looked around. Then just as we're about to leave and finish and thank you, you tell us who you are. We're you're like, "Wow, this is incredible. This is unbelievable." Before that, a colleague at our office said, "You know, you might want to interview her for Eckhart Tolle internet television." And I was like, "Okay, well I haven't read her article yet." I believe they said you wrote a book Parenting Without Power Struggles and I hadn t read that, but you kindly gave me your book. When we walked away and I thought this is too synchronistic, like it's just - - life is putting us together big time. [0:05:01] Okay. I opened your book and the first thing I read, "I love you to the moon and back and from every corner of my heart. May your dreams be blessed. May you be blessed with joy, peace, love, laughter and gratitude. And may you always feel how much you are loved." And this was dedicated to your son, Ari. And I went "Wow!" because I just felt so connected to you because I used to tell my daughter -- I still do in fact. I wrote it in a mug for her, where you write on a mug. I used to spread my arms out why this I can. I used to say, "I love you more than the whole universe." And it just connected. I read your book it was just like love, connecting that love. I think as mothers and parents, we have that deep connections of love, the love that we have for our children no matter how many mistakes we make or how irritable our own children can get. We just love them. But it doesn't mean that we're without challenges. Kim Eng p. 2
Yes, beautiful. Thank you. You know, I love what you said. I didn't know that; that you had said something like that to your daughter. I'm not surprised but that kind of love is so staggering and it's so overwhelmingly beautiful and so potentially crazy making because it lead us into a universe of feeling and impulsive and instincts that's just incredibly powerful. What I love about our conversation today, some of the things that we've decided to talk about, has to do with parenting children who are not little anymore, parenting adult children which you and I both have. You're further along than I am. Your daughter is about -- well, maybe we shouldn't say, but she's older than my son. I had a chance to meet her when I did the taping Eckhart Tolle TV and then you've gotten the chance to meet my son as well. So it does feel like there is a similar spirit with which we take on that opportunity to parent our adult children. Would you like to see more about what that's been like for you now that you're daughter is sort of out of the house and grown? It's not so much that we parent out children adult anymore, but it's more like we relate with them now. It's relating because they don't need that same kind of parenting. It doesn't mean that we don't perhaps guide them still when they ask for it, support them when they need it. disidentifying with your role and function as a parent. So we don't identify. Eckhart says every role is a fictitious sense of self. The role as parent is just that. It's a function we play temporarily. Children just as we do as adults, children, adult children, they need to learn from their own mistakes. If we take that away from them, we take away their capacity to really learn it for themselves, the ability to learn and grow to mature healthy human beings. That's so very true. I think what you've said is very profound really because I know I was listening to an interview a few weeks ago on one of the stations and a woman was -- I think it was an Oprah replay from one of the shows years ago. The woman was on the show whose daughter I think was about 26, and the woman, the mother apparently was stalking her adult daughter and showing up at the coffee shop where she frequented and trying to nose around and find out who she was meeting. The daughter, it was almost like an intervention to say, "Please stop doing that." They brought on a therapist or whatever. I remember the woman saying to Oprah, or whoever the audience was there, saying, "All I know to do is be a mother. That was always my role. That was always what I was. And I don't know how to let go of that or give that up." And boy, it was really powerful. Kim Eng p. 3
[0:09:58] Yeah. And if we don't give it up, that's the conflict that end up having with our children, our adult children because adult children, they want to be adults. They want to be themselves. We are all meant to be ourselves, our real selves, not our roles, not our functions, not what we do. I mean we are not a mother. We are not a father. We are not a doctor, lawyer, janitor, whatever. We are not even our name. So where does that leave us? The core of our being. And if we can reflect this family life, this is what we're there teaching our children because children learn by example. If they see us standing in our own core, our own inner self where we are in the moment, we are in the world but not of the world; and we are there as that parent or that adult, a parent for adults, if you want to call it that. We are just being present. We are there in balance. We are the balance and equilibrium. You speak of captain of the ship. Well, that's what we are. A captain of the ship has to be in the moment because if something were to happen, they have to be there present. They are the balance, the equilibrium of the whole system, the higher system. So if children are learning by example, are we present? Is there a presence flowing through us so that your own life force that's connected to the Divine within us, is that flowing through? Or are you there just as your identification with the idea of who you think a mother should be, a parent should be, or the expectation that we can sometimes have on ourselves and our children? So when we have that expectation, when we want our children to live out or expectations, we are not present with them. We are not relating with them. We are confining them into a little box. They'll grow. They'll wither and die the longer they stay in that box. So our real job as parents is to ourselves be connected to that divine flow within us so that our relationships with children and our parenting, that love, that connection that we have. It allows room for mistakes because that core, that solidness of love is there. And it's okay to make mistakes. There's more forgiveness in that because we are perfectly imperfect. That's the captain of the ship, being in the moment. You know, that's so great. I never really thought of it that way but it's really true because we have talked about that, and of course I talk about it all my work about being the captain of the ship. Everything I teach, all the programs I put together are really about helping parents be that. But I haven't thought about it in terms of how the captain has to be so present. The captain has to scan the Kim Eng p. 4
horizon all the time. You should take a reading on the weather and set out what's going on with the crew. [0:15:25] Exactly. Yeah. That's the balance here in the family, on the family dynamics, how do restore that equilibrium. Yes. Life is full of different -- just as the seasons are, there are storms that happen. There's rain. Yeah. There's a quote and I've thought about this a lot because it's a very sweet quote, and it does sort of speak to that kind of love that we feel for our children and that level of attunement and empathy that we can't almost help but feel especially when our children our young. It allows us when we need to be tuned in to what our child is experiencing because it allows us to captain the ship. It allows us perhaps to recognize that the winds are blowing and maybe a meltdown is on its way, and it would be better not to go to the supermarket with our three-year-old. So we want to be tuned in to what our child is experiencing but the quote is this: "We're only as happy as our saddest child." And while I think it's a beautiful sentiment, I also think that what you are saying speaks to that need for us to be differentiated from our children and not wound so tightly around their emotional experience so that we can still parent them without that attachment to their happiness in the moment or we're not so desperate to make sure that their problems are all fixed and solved. Do you want to say something to that? Right, absolutely right. I mean if we become attached to their emotions, to their outburst, to their pain-body, then we're not serving them in the highest level possible. We've become identified with them. In fact, what happened is that our own pain bodies has been triggered and activated. And then when that gets triggered and pain-bodies love to feed on other people's pain-bodies, and then you end up having a rival. I mean I think we've all know that with our own children. So if we can step back and the way to step back is to give that space; allow your child to perhaps go through that meltdown. So you're holding the space. You're being the space. You're acknowledging how difficult it may be that your child was experiencing this. We just allow them to go through their own process, their Kim Eng p. 5
own emotions. If they re too far into their pain-body, they won't be able to hear anything you say. So it is best just to let them. I have an exercise that I do in my Presence Through Movement, and that's shaking or dancing it out. It's literally just shaking your body and just freeing up all that energy. I suggest to parents, for children, their young children, you can get them just to shake it out; and when they kind of return to themselves, they become more present. You might want to just talk with them perhaps. And it could be, of course, when the pain-body subsides, it could be that day, it could be the next day, it could be the day after. You have to be in tune and just feel out when would be the appropriate time because you don't want to again activate it by bringing it up and you can activate something to bring it up. Yes. Well, that's really -- I mean it just sort of fits so perfectly in with what I teach which is one of the elements of my work, I think you know, is called Act I parenting, and it has to do with just helping the child kind of come back to him or herself by, as you just said, acknowledging what they're experiencing. I talk about getting three yeses or nods from the child. Gosh, I love that. I don't remember the example we've used it before, but I know that you desperately wanted to know they're a piece of cake and, honey, that cake is so yummy. It's so hard to see it sitting there and not be able to have as much as you want. And there is a compassion there and an understanding and an acknowledgment of that difficulty they're facing, but there's no follow-up with "But we're going to have dinner soon," or "But you've already had a piece." So you're just simply allowing the child to have the experience that he's having with great compassion and kindness, acknowledging the pain in that moment and, as you said, holding that space so that your pain-body is not triggered along with theirs which is where we'd end up having that lawyer or a dictator kind of relating where we're bribing or threatening or arguing and negotiating. Right. So moving to talk a little bit more about the adult children in our lives, and they re certainly not children. And I love how -- I think you really sweetly clarified that we're not that role for them as the parent. I've had a couple of calls even the last day, last night and today with my son about something he's going through; and it's so beautiful to have this relationship with him now where he can call, I can listen, I can weigh in if he wants my advice. Kim Eng p. 6
I usually ask, "Do you want me to weigh in, sweetie, or are you just kind of offloading?" We can bounce some ideas back and forth for things that he's sorting out. And when he is done, he yanks up the phone and he goes on about his life in his day and I go on about mine. It's a very different way than of course when he was five or ten. It's just beautiful to me to have a relationship with him now where there's that confidence that what he got from what he needed to be in an adult is more or less done as best as I could do. [0:20:18] Do you have more to add to that? Yes, well, exactly. When my daughter calls sometimes and she's upset, it's just that. I give her that space. Sometimes she just wants to vent. It's like that we have to have that for adult children. We have to now ask them, "Okay, do you want my advice? Do you want my suggestions?" Because what we've hopefully done, and even if we haven't done it when they were young children, you can do it while they're adults, and that is to help them find their own answers by helping them look within themselves first. They might turn around and say, "Yes, I would love your advice." But then we can even ask questions like, "Okay, well, what is it that you feel inside? If you could handle it the way that you wanted to handle it, how would it be?" And then you can talk it out rather than right away give your advice. But it may not happen that way. You have to be in the moment because it may happen that, yes, okay, well, I'm just going to just say what I think. Right, yeah. I say this to parents of young children a lot too that kind of the worst words to begin a request of a child is "I need you to..." because it can activate this part of the child. If we're not in a strong and deep connection in that moment or they feel shortchanged by attention from us or anything really or there's a lousy mood and they want to activate us or see what kind of mom TV they can turn on, that "I need you to" alerts a child to the fact that "Oh, now I know exactly what not to do." But in that same way, I think what you're talking about is that when we approach our adult children or, let's say, they approach us, we can really be needy. That's a place for us to work on if we have our own neediness around them solving their problem in a particular way. Yes, absolutely. If you have that neediness in you or if you have expectations, then you are not relating to them who they are and then the situation for them in that moment. You are relating to your own neediness inside your own head and the expectations that you have that are inside your own head. Kim Eng p. 7
[0:25:18] Right. And it's going to trip you over every time. Have you and your daughter ever talked about -- I don't know if I want to use the word "mistakes" because I'm not sure that I think of them as mistakes. But do you talk now that she's older about places in her childhood where either she used to get mad a lot about how you handle things? I know I've had those conversations with my son. Have you done any kind of dialogues with her around -- My gosh, yes. The apologies of, you know, when I was raising you when you were a teenager. I think it's important because it helps them to be able to release the conditioning because we are conditions even with us as parents. I mean we grew up in a family so we have this conditioning of the family unit, society, our peers, et cetera; and how we operate it as a family. Think if we don't speak about those moments where we operated from a conditioned state of mind. It will help them to realize, "Wow, that was just part of just family dynamics. It's not who I am." So long time ago, when my mother said or my father said, "Oh, you're stupid," because of some unconsciousness in the parents in that moment, and then that child takes it on and then lives with it probably for years and years and years. If we can't come to talk about that, then they may continue seeing themselves that way and they may do it unconsciously. So they look at life. They filter life through this conditioning of "Oh, geez, my parents once said I was stupid." So that's how they filter, how they see life. Or another child told them they were stupid. It doesn't have to come from the family unit. It could come from peers. So it frees them and it gets them to see, "Wow, okay, that's not who I am. That was an experience that I had, a sad experience that made me feel sad and doubt myself. But it's not who I am. Okay. So who am I? Who am I?" That's the question that they should really be asking, not "Who am I as what happened to me. Am I that?" No. You are not that. I love that you talked about that. Yeah. I'm sorry, go ahead. You are the space in which that experience happened. Can you repeat that? You are the space in which that experience happened. So anything that we experience in our life is not who we are. It happened, but it's not who we are. It's the spiritual essence of who we are, our purpose, our life, a child's purpose in life to discover who they are at the core, rest themselves that connection of who they are at the core. Kim Eng p. 8
That's really the path we're on, isn't it? Those listening to this call have signed up because they want to parent with presence. You've summed up something so essential to that which has to do with, first of all, recognizing that -- what did you say earlier? We're perfectly imperfect and that is part of the course. It's how it's going to roll out. If we were perfect and there is no such thing anyway, then our children would have no opportunity to bump up against experience. If you were perfectly attuned and happy and clicking your heels and singing songs every day and never ruffled or upset or frustrated as a parent then always tuned in to every need of your child, then the child would go forth into their own adult life completely illequipped to deal with ups and downs and inevitable disappointments. So I think it's that in our humility in the face of our imperfections or our challenges or, as you were saying, the conditioning that we bring to parenting from our own upbringings that our children really do become prepared to live amongst real people. [0:29:57] Yes. We're human beings. The human part is usually the conditioned self and our being is the unconditioned. Well, I know I've had conversations also with my son really so lovely and dear about those moments when I lost my way or, as you said, I was just moving from a conditioned response. And to see now at 23, his level of forgiveness and acceptance and kindness, I think as he steps more into his adult life and recognize, wow, that's not as easy as it looks, right? So I think it's beautiful that you talked about that with your daughter and acknowledging those times when you slip up a bit, whether it's when they're now adults. I'm a great fan of parents apologizing after there's been a problem even in the moment with younger children so that they get the sense not that we're perfect or should be but that we can stand and take responsibility for losing our way or stepping into that pain-body, being sucked into that completely and then we recover and we come back to ourselves again. Absolutely, yeah. The storms in family life, the unconsciousness that sometimes we might slip into. When we talk about when we come out of that, the unconscious and then to be more present and when we talk about that, we share that, we're developing an honest communication with our children. We're human beings present with each other as much as we can, and that's ultimately really our practice here as parents. I mean we don't sign up knowing everything. Right. Kim Eng p. 9
In fact, we totally signed up knowing nothing. Yeah, if feels that way, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, we have to wrap up soon, but there was something and we've sort of touched on that, but Eckhart had written in A New Earth this beautiful statement. I think we've touched on it, but I want to see if there's anything you'd like to add either from your heart or anything you want to share. "While the child is having a pain-body attack, there isn't much you can do except to stay present so that you're not drawn into an emotional reaction. The child pain-body would only feed on it. Pain-bodies can be extremely dramatic. Don't buy into the drama. Don't take it too seriously. If the pain-body was triggered by and thwarted wanting, don't give in now its demands. Otherwise, the child will learn: 'The more unhappy I become, the more likely I am to get what I want.'" Is there anything you'd like to add to that? Wow, no, I think that just really sums it up. Anything I'd like to add, feel for every parent. I know how the experience of how a child can -- when their pain-body is triggered, how if I'm not alert enough in my own self, I can trigger myself. And then perhaps the ways that the parents then need to be able to deal with it, if you find yourself that you're getting triggered, we might have to go into different rooms. I know. Have the child be in one room and you go into another room and just say, "Let's talk, honey, when we've kind of have released our pain-bodies." We have to remember that we're the captain of the ship. So our child may just go deep into that pain-body. They may not have enough self-awareness in that moment to say, "Oh, okay, I'm in my pain-body and my mother did my pain-body." There will come a time that your child will. If you do this work with them, they will. They will recognize, "Oh, mommy or daddy is in their pain-body," because you talked about it and then you've talked about when you're present with them, you've talked about when you were unconscious or when the pain-body is up. But if there are two pain-bodies in the room, sometimes it's best just to separate and give yourself and your child the space to work through it. I sometimes tell parents, just call Aunt Mary, even if you don't have one. Oh, my gosh, I have to make a phone call, right? You know what? I really need to run to Kim Eng p. 10
the bathroom. So you just create a little space and separation so that you can recover. [0:35:14] Exactly. Thank you, Kim, for sharing with us so sweetly. And I know that we've gotten the chance to wander around which you and I, we always have to watch the clock when we're together, don't we? We do. My pleasure. It was a joy to be here with you and a joy to be with everyone who is listening, and my heart is with every single parent really. It's like we are one. Well, thank you, Kim Eng, for your time and your participation and your sharing. And again, I don't know if you have a second website but people who want to learn more about what we've talked about can certainly go to eckharttolle.com. Is there a second site that you want to share? Not yet. Well, there's eckharttolletv.com. And I'm starting to build my own website but that's still in the making. Well, we'll watch for that and thank you. Thank you for your beautiful spirit and dear love. I thank you all of you for joining us on this call today. I hope that you have been able to take something of value. Sometimes it s good to even before you move on to new things in your day, consider one thing that you heard in this call, one takeaway that you want to carry forward into your next interaction either with your child, your teenager or your adult child, or just with yourself for your partner. So setting that intention to bring one idea into reality, into the real dayto-dayness of your life can be a powerful way to really make it your own. Please visit my Facebook page. I think it's Susan Stiffelman Public Figure. That's how you'll find. There are updates and comments and conversation going on there. If you find that these calls are of value, I do hope that you'll post or share or tweet or let your friends know about this summit and these calls, this incredible wisdom that's being shared with so many wonderful people. Remember that you can also purchase an upgrade package if you'd like to own these calls and that's at parentingwithpresence.com/upgrade. Thank you again, Kim. Thank you, Susan. You're welcome. Kim Eng p. 11
Thank you all of you for joining us for this Parenting with Presence series. Till next time. I'm wishing you all my best. [0:36:51] End of Audio 2014 The Shift Network. All rights reserved. Kim Eng p. 12