having a discussion about Mormon church history, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Patience Dadzie BARBARA COPELAND: And today's date is October 21 st, Sunday in the year 2001. We are having a discussion about Mormon church history, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Patience, I just wanted to start off by asking you a couple of basic questions about I would say maybe your early childhood life. Wanted to know how many brothers and sisters do you have in your family. PATIENCE DADZIE: Okay, in my family in all I have five brothers and five sisters all together. BC: I remember you had mentioned to me that you're not African American, that you're African. So I was just curious as to which country, which part of Africa. PD: Okay, I'm from Ghana, West Africa. That's where I'm from. BC: What year, when did you come to the United States? PD: 1991. BC: '91. PD: Yes. BC: What was it like back in Ghana with your family? PD: It was a big difference like in Ghana especially in family tradition you are allowed to like, it's legal to marry more than one. So for example like my dad he's had like four wives, and my mom was the first one, but as soon as my dad started dating somebody. She said she couldn't, wouldn't tolerate. So they got separated. My dad remarried. So even though we are I said we have five brothers and five sisters this is like from the three wives. It's not--. But with my mom and dad I'm the only child from my mom and dad. My mom remarried, and she had another two, a girl and a boy. So a big family. BC: So that makes up your five brothers and sisters. PD: Yeah. BC: That's interesting that even in a culture that condones having more than wife that still the women have a problem with or they just don't really feel comfortable with their husband, sharing thenhusband with other wives because that's very, very common here in America where a lot of women they wouldn't hear of it. This is the first time that I'm hearing that a lot of the African women even though it is just their culture that the husbands would have more than one wife they still don't feel comfortable with it. PD: Yeah, sometimes even though it's legal I know not all the men can do it because you have to be rich to be able do that. I mean you have to be rich to marry more than one. Some of the women don't

OCTOBER 21, 2001 care. So as far as you are take care of them, feeding them or whatever giving a house they don't even care. Like with my dad all the women have their separate houses. He just go to like once in a while. So for us they give them the money to feed them and that's what really matters to them. BC: Right. But now so they all have their different houses, but so where does, where would he choose. Would he just choose to live with one for maybe a few months or something like that and thenhow does that work? PD: Normally like the first wife is the one who stays in the house forever. But the next one she would live in a different house and the third in a different house. But that's what happened. But with my dad and my mom were separated. So the first wife unfortunately she didn't get a chance to live with him. She lived in a separate house. Then the second one came and lived with him for a while. But the third wife also lived in a separate house. But like what happens I know he just goes visit them for maybe a day and comes back. So that's like even though they were married he only stays over night or something. BC: So he doesn't stay like a few months. PD: Like a few months. No. BC: Okay. Do those other wives, how would you say the other wives would feel about not having a husband in the home permanently? Like he would the first wife he would be home with the first wife permanently, but how would you say the other wives would feel about him just coming to visit and still being married? PD: Married. Like I'm saying I think it doesn't really matter to them so far as they see each other everyday, and he give her what she wants and I think that's really matters, take care of the family. BC: So aside from that what else would you say, how else could you describe like the community there in Ghana like when you were growing up? PD: When I was growing up. BC: Do all of the children from all of the different wives do they see themselves as brothers and sisters or do they- PD: Some of them do. I know a different culture like they all stay in like a big house, with like three wives, but they're all in the same big house. They are like brothers and sisters, but this is like a different tradition. This is a whole tradition they are in. When I was in school, I had a friend whose dad 2

OCTOBER 21, 2001 had like four wives and they live in this big house. They have brothers and sisters they get together. But some of the, like example like my stepmom I know she was like that, very jealous way. She was in that house none of the stepchildren were able to go the house because of her. She didn't allow any stepchild to come there. So it depends on the culture. BC: So what and you said you met your husband, I remember you saying previously that you met your husband there in Ghana. PD: Yeah. BC: And did you ask him about how does he feel about having more than one wife or were you going to make sure that- PD: Actually it never occurred for me to ask him that. I know that he always say that there is no way that he is going to marry more than one wife because if you don't love somebody, then don't even marry them. He doesn't believe in that. BC: So then there are some men there who just would rather just have one wife and who don't. PD: Like I'm saying even though it's legal you have to have money or rich like my dad example he used to be one of the richest men. He had his own printing presses and car. So he has all this money. Like I'm saying even though you have all these wives he was (). So the women just come for the money. As soon as the money () they just leave him. BC: Really. PD: Of course it's not easy over there. For example in America I know when you get married the, normally the bride's mom takes care of most of the stuff. I don't know the culture here, but in African culture when you get married, we have something like a dowry. It's like- BC: A dowry. PD: Yeah, it's called dowry. That is like if they believe that you've raised your daughter who go to school and high school. So if the man is going to marry her, then they're going to ask you for some dowry. Like you have to present something like whatever the bride's parent ask for you're supposed to give it up before you get married. They're giving your daughter for marriage; so you have to give something back to the family. BC: To the family. 3

PD: Yeah. OCTOBER 21, 2001 BC: So it's sort of like, you pay a price for them to release their daughter to you for marriage. Because otherwise the daughter would stay at home and support- PD: Support the family. Yeah. BC: I see. Oh okay. Describe your holidays there in Ghana. Do you all celebrate some of the same holidays that we celebrate here like Christmas, Thanksgiving- PD: The only holidays we celebrate is Christmas. There's nothing such as Thanksgiving over there. The only holidays are Christmas and Easter, and they have like festivals. Every state has its own festival. So that is the only holidays we celebrate, and Christmas is different from here because here Christmas I know Christmastime is like you have something like exchange gifts and something that over there it's not like that. It's like a poor county. So they don't exchange gifts like we do over here. Normally on Christmastime that's when the kids get like new clothes and new shoes during Christmas. That's what they do. Example is like I know here during Thanksgiving is like turkey is the main dish like everybody has. But over in Christmas it's like chicken. BC: Oh chicken, okay. PD: Or like a cow, something of the main food they have because fish is less expensive over there than chicken. We wouldn't get a chance to eat chicken over every day like here. So it's like if you have a chicken on Christmas, it's like oh-. BC: That's the main delicacy since-. PD: That's why everybody makes or cooks chicken and all this stuff at Christmastime. BC: What do you recall about weddings, baptisms, funerals, family rituals. How do they guide their ceremonies there for the different types like for weddings and funerals and things of that nature. PD: With weddings it's almost like the same over here. But the only difference is like I'm saying if you get whoever is going to get married, it's the bride and the groom's responsibility to take care of everything. BC: As far as paying. PD: Paying for it, the wedding and everything. It's their responsibility. With the funerals it's a little bit different here. Actually I haven't been to a funeral here before so I can't even say much about that. 4

But over there normally they have something called wake. It's called wake. You stay overnight like here to mourn the dead body. So that everybody comes and looks at the dead body go around and cry until the next day. Then you go and bury the dead body. Normally if you are the bride or whatever the custom has to be like wear black for like one year. The wife if for example if the dad dies, the wife and the children have to wear black for like one year before they change into white. () They're still mourning. BC: Yeah, like they have funeral homes here and mostly people will sit around. They'll go to a wake. They'll sit around the body and they will mourn. Some will get up and say something, maybe special about the deceased, but they'll stay for maybe a few hours, and then they'll sign the guest book either as they're coming in or as they're leaving. Then after that they leave then maybe the next day or the day after is when they have the funeral. So it's almost similar but not exactly the same. PD: Yeah, not exactly. Then after they go and bury the body that's when they meet together and drink and they have something called like a dowry. Everybody has to come and give the family something. So you have like a guestbook and they write whatever you give to the family write it down. They'll write it () I give you this to help support the family. BC: Oh okay. So you said they drink. Do they like maybe cook? Is it a celebration afterwards? PD: Yeah, it depends on the tradition. Every state has their own tradition. Where I'm from normally it's like we have to wear like mournings just you have to start like starving. But in a different state it's festival. They cook a big meal and serve everybody. So every state has their own tradition. entertainment. BC: What kinds of things did you family do together like for entertainment in Ghana? PD: There's nothing such as entertainment. BC: There's no entertainment. PD: No in Ghana. It's just like (). BC: Like after school when you all go to school, what do you do when you come home? PD: We help our mom cook and clean the house and do our homework. There's nothing like BC: So the kids here I guess are really spoiled. PD: Yes. You have to help cook, wash dishes, clean and if somebody, if your mom is selling something. You have to go around and sell whatever. 5

BC: What were the religious traditions like there in Ghana? Was it all one same religion or- PD: They have like Christians and Muslims and () one of them is the most religious country because they believe generally on Sundays they believe to, Sunday is like worship. If you go to a grocery store, there's no grocery store open on Sunday. Every grocery store is closed. So they really believe in it. BC: I guess what would be similar here is that on Sundays mostly everything is closed up until like one o'clock. So that would be the similarity that they have here. PD: Yeah. But over there they just close all the Sunday. BC: For the whole day. PD: For the whole day. BC: You all practice religion on just Sunday only. PD: Yeah, they have different like (). But normally those who go to church on Sunday, they don't open business on Sunday. BC: Oh okay. That's interesting. When your parents were both of the parents were away from the home, who would care for the children? PD: Neighbors and friends and family. BC: In the neighborhood. So basically everyone in the neighborhood would watch PD: Watch, yeah. BC: So how close or how far apart did like neighbors live from one another? PD: It's just like here. Your houses are close to each other. BC: Close proximity. PD: Yeah, that's like the whole community. I mean it's not something like (). My son can tell you you can see the kids walking around the streets with others. Your mom and dad would be out going to work. So yeah they care for each other, and you aren't scared that someone is going to do something to your child. It's not like here where you have to~ BC: Really. PD: Yeah. So it's like, raising a child here is not easy. Over there you can have like four kids and you have friends would help you. Friends will help you come to take care of the child. But here you have take them to the babysitter or the daycare and pay money. So it's more expensive here than over there. 6

OCTOBER 21, 2001 BC: What do you remember about the care of like just babies in your home like when they're just infants? PD: I know when you are born they believe that I don't know how to call it like molding the head. When a child is born the grandparents believe in at first if the baby doesn't go you have to wrap him in a blanket and keep in the room. When you are bathing him, you have to mold the head. They say if you don't mold the head and shape it, when the baby grows up they're going to get a big head. I remember when I was pregnant, when I told my dad I was pregnant, he said well remember to mold his head when the baby's born. I don't want you to bring that American head in the family. BC: So how long do they do that, up until what age? PD: They do it until like three months. BC: Three months old. PD: Yeah, three months and then they stop. BC: Do they keep the head covered like with a hat or something like that during that time? PD: Yeah. Normally they keep the head covered, but any time they bathe they have two washcloths one trying to massage the head, mold it and to make it round. BC: That's interesting. I think some of the families do carry on that kind of tradition here. But from what I understand it's almost like an old wives tale here where they'll pass it down from generation to generation, and they'll say well you're supposed to mold the head or you're supposed to keep the head covered when they're infants that sort of thing. What kind of work did your father do? You said a little while ago that he was one of the richest men in Ghana. PD: He was a managing director of a printing press. He had his own company called (Roco) Printing Works. BC: Printing press. PD: Printing press. Yeah. BC: Oh okay. Oh. That's interesting. What kind of work did your mother do? PD: My mom, she used to work at the gas station as a cashier, but later on she had her own business. I don't know how to call, how you are calling it. She had a like street side business where you set the table around- 7

BC: A vendor. PD: A vendor, yeah. She was a vendor. BC: Who were you, who would you say you were closer too? Was it your mother or your father? PD: I would say my mother. BC: You were closer to your mother. Okay and how were you disciplined? Were you ever disciplined unfairly by anyone other than your parents? PD: Over there, they believe in spanking. That is the only way they discipline you. Spanking is the main thing. I mean- [interrruption] BC: It's okay. PD: Yeah, spanking. They believe in spanking. So whenever you do something bad everybody can, it doesn't matter whether it's your mom not. If you see a child on the street doing something bad, everybody has the right to spank that child or take you home and explain to our mother what the child is doing. BC: Oh okay. That's definitely not the case here. It might have been like years and years and years ago. But definitely everyone here is like afraid to chastise or not spank them but just even afraid to say anything because they're afraid that the parent will say retaliate. PD: Retaliate or something. BC: So I agree that that's, I think that that's a good way to~ PD: They discipline you really well. They believe that every child should have a respect for an adult no matter. BC: Because yeah, it does take a village to raise a child and I think that that's really the whole concept. So when, did you marry in Ghana or did you marry once you got here? PD: I married in Ghana. BC: You did get married in Ghana. What type of work did your husband do before he got here? PD: He was working as an engineer in one of his dad's boat like a fishing boat before he got here. BC: Oh okay. Did the two of you date long before you got married? PD: Yeah, we dated for about eight years. BC: Wow. How old were you then? 8

PD: I was like, let's see. Probably like fifteen or something. OCTOBER 21, 2001 BC: Fifteen. PD: Yeah. BC: Because they do marry early there or no. PD: It depends. BC: Really. PD: Yeah, it depends. I was born in the city and raised in the city, but like in the villages where they are uncivilized some people do that. They don't even marry, but they get pregnant all the same but. It depended. Over there it's not () marriage like here because like I'm saying because of what they spent for me, when you get married. So there are a lot of people who can't get married because of the tradition of what you have to go through to get married. So it's hard to get. BC: Right. Do they sometimes like the families arrange marriages for- PD: I know they said they used to. I heard that when I was growing up, but since I've grown up I've never seen that ever happen before. BC: That they don't do that. PD: I know at one time they used to arrange marriages. I even at some point like my dad since he was from a rich family he wanted, he always wanted me to marry someone like a rich. Yeah. So I tried. He never liked my husband when we were dating, until he had a chance to come to America. So when he came to me, well before he had said that he was like he's from a poor family. Why would you marry someone from a poor family and all this stuff. But when he found out he was coming to America that was the only way he allowed him to marry because he wouldn't allow that. BC: What were the major differences in your education and the education that your parents had? PD: Let me see. Well, my dad had education I think. I know after high school he went to like a technical school and learned how to operate a printing press. My mom too after high school I think she went to a teacher's training, and she used to be a teacher. Yeah. BC: Okay. The way that your parents raised you, would, do you adopt those same values in raising your own children? PD: Yes I do. Except that since they're in America you have to adapt. Yeah. 9

BC: Adapt to some. I forgot, I know that you have children, but how many children do you have? PD: I have two, a boy and a girl. BC: Their names are? PD: Precious and Jewel. BC: That's beautiful. Those are two beautiful names. So in raising them you have to adapt to because you're here in America. What would you say that there were some changes that you would have to make or adapt that were different from the way your parents raised you? Are there some like leeways that you have with them that your parents would not have had with you? PD: Yeah, especially like discipline. Over there they were very disciplined, and they believed in spanking, and also I know what my dad and mom did to me I wouldn't do it to my kids. Like they believed that if for a child should () dinner of lunchtime the child has to wait for the adults to finish eating before they get a chance to eat. Normally during the food time they believe, they eat the more portion of the food. Instead of giving like the meat the adult- BC: To the child. PD: Adult to the child the child gets the least meat and the adult gets like most of the meat. BC: Oh so the families there don't all eat together with the children and the adults. PD: No, they don't eat together. BC: The adults eat first and the children. PD: Children eat, they sit down at the table and eat all the rest. BC: So that is one big difference. PD: Difference, yeah. BC: Then here you definitely would let your, you see where it's more beneficial to let your children have before you do. I know that's pretty much the American way. Well, I don't know if I should say the American way, but- PD: Then also for example like the kid's sitting right here. Over there it's not allowed. If you see your mom has a visitor in the living room, you know you have to definitely leave the room and go and sit somewhere, give them their privacy. Don't sit and listen to whatever conversation is going on now. But here it's totally different. 10

BC: Right. Right. Okay. Do you remember well what are your views about women being able to vote or women being involved in politics? PD: I don't have much to say about that and politics and voting because I'm not a citizen here yet. So I don't even vote. BC: Right. Did women have authority in Ghana to be engaged in any kind of political- PD: Not really. BC: No. It was just all the men. PD: Yes. Over there normally women normally are allowed to stay home and care for their children. So most women in Africa don't work. They stay home and care for their children while the man goes to work, [interruption] BC: Okay. What would you say were some of the favorite family stories your parents and grandparents told you that you particularly liked to hear? Or did they tell any family stories? PD: I know they told us at school, but I don't know about parents telling us family stories at home. I know normally at night when the kids get together and they play like hide and seek and tell stories to each other, but I don't remember family telling me stories I don't think. Basically they told us at school. BC: Oh at school they do. PD: Yes. BC: Okay. Did your mother make clothes for you all or like sewing and things of that nature? Was everything just maybe like passed down in the community or bought, the clothing? PD: My mother didn't know how to sew. So she never made clothes. I know she could hem or alterations, but she never learned how to sew. So everything was like bought from the community. BC: Okay. What was, what would you say was your reaction of your friends when they found out that you were getting married in Ghana? PD: They were happy for me. They were happy for me. BC: Did your friends ever worry about, they themselves the ones who weren't married. Did they ever worry about being an old maid? That's a term that we have here in America where a lot of women sometimes they worry about whether or not they're going to become an old maid if they don't get married. So some of them try to hurry up and get married. 11

PD: Some people worry about that too. They do, yeah. They do. BC: What were some of the things were you ever able to discuss the joys and trials of your marriage with your close friends and relatives like when you first got married? PD: No. Not really. I didn't even discuss with my close family but my () friend like during my marriage my husband was already here. Over there we have like different kinds of marriages. You can have the church marriage, the custom, the traditional marriage. I had a traditional marriage because my husband wasn't there when I was getting married. So his family had to represent him in a marriage. BC: They had to? PD: Represent. BC: Present. PD: Present, yeah. BC: Even though he wasn't here. PD: Yeah. He wasn't there in present. Normally what they do is I know is you have to hide in a room and his family and my family will sit down and discuss what my family wants and then what they are presenting all the presents. BC: So he was here in America- PD: Yes. BC: And you were there and the wedding ceremony was being taking place. PD: Yes. BC: That's interesting. So he was never present for the wedding. PD: No, he wasn't here. No he wasn't here. Like I'm saying it was like-they stay in a room. His family would be here, and my dad and mom were sitting right here. You have someone like a secretary that is speaking today we are gathering here to ask your daughter for marriage. Then my dad would say okay, but in order for me to give my daughter up for marriage I request for you to give me this amount of money, this amount of drink, this amount of clothing. BC: To his parents. PD: Parents. Yeah, to my dad and (). I don't know if you get what I'm trying to say but- BC: So the two families negotiated on a dowry. 12

PD: A dowry and the daughter's husband. The bride's family is the one who is going to request the dowry from the groom's family. So the groom has to pay everything that the bride's family asks for. BC: But if your husband was here in America when that was taking place, how would he-i mean how would he be able to say okay we will take care of that or the family will pay for that? PD: Before we sit down that day the bride's family always tells them what he, who he wanted. Then they tell him () call my husband on the phone and tell him what that he was sending money over for them to get everything ready whatever I know. They were going to be asking for that to be ready. I mean they know, he already told him what he is expecting () for money. BC: So they just carried out everything that he~ PD: Yeah. Everything. BC: Oh that's interesting. So once you came to America then did the two of you decide to have a wedding together here? PD: Well, we haven't decided about that something we wanted to do but yeah. We would like to do it. We would like to go back home and have the wedding since we have friends and family over there. BC: Over there. Because I was going to ask you if you were going to have it here would it be just a regular American marriage or would it be like a traditional African marriage but over here? Okay I guess I could, I had some questions that I wanted to ask you about pertaining to religion and more so towards the Mormon church history. But I wanted to know I guess primarily well first of all did your family back home did they attend a church or a temple and what were their religious beliefs? Was it Muslim or Christian? PD: My family they were Christians. BC: Christian. PD: My mom was a Presbyterian. My dad was a I would say a Christian. The church was the Church of Jesus Christ of Brotherhood, one of the Christian churches. BC: What about your husband? PD: He used to be a Roman Catholic. BC: A Catholic, your husband? PD: Yeah. BC: Roman Catholic and they, gee they have that in Ghana. 13

PD: Yeah. BC: How interesting. PD: They have Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, (SGA)~ BC: They have all those- PD: All those denominations over there. BC: They do. Do they also have Mormonism? PD: Yes, they do. They do have Mormonism. BC: Were you, did you know about the Mormon church while you were in Ghana? PD: Yes. BC: Were you, did you, were you affiliated with them or when did you join the Mormon church there or~ PD: I joined, I was baptized in Ghana. I joined the church in Ghana and that's where I was baptized. I was baptized in Ghana before I came to America. BC: Inthe- PD: In the Mormon church. BC: Oh in the Mormon church, okay. That's very interesting because most people that, well, most African Americans, but then you're just African. You're not African American. Most that are not from this country who have joined the Mormon church have joined it here. So this is different that for the first time. So now if you're family was belonged to a different denomination, how did you decide to become a Latterday Saint in Ghana? Did someone introduce you? PD: Yeah, my husband when we were dating he went to this meeting, to the church. BC: So he converted from Catholicism to- PD: To Mormon. BC: To the Mormon church. PD: Yes, uh huh. BC: Oh okay. And how long were you a Latter-day Saint in Ghana before coming to America? PD: Probably like four to five years before I came here. 14

BC: Are there any differences in the way the Mormon church is here in America than it is in Ghana? PD: Yeah. I would say they are different, yeah. Because like I said over there normally the woman basically stays home and takes care of the kids. So they have more time over there than over here. Over here it's like you don't have more time. You have to work, take care of the children, take them to daycare and all of this. So it's very hard especially for me to take a lot of calling in the church, but over there there was more () it was that much big difference over there than here. BC: Okay. So I guess once you got here in America you immediately wanted to find a Latterday, a Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? PD: Yeah. When I go here, my husband had already found it and was going. BC: To one here. PD: To one here. BC: Is that the one that you are presently in now? PD: Yes. BC: So altogether how many years were you a Latter-day Saint? PD: I'd say about fourteen years, [interruption] BC: So it was fourteen years. PD: Yeah. BC: That's a pretty long time. So have you ever been called to do a specific function in the church here? Like I understand that the men they're called into the priesthood and women have different types of calling. Were you ever called? PD: Yeah, I used to be the young woman's teacher. I was teaching young women. BC: And usually how long do those callings last, [break] So yeah how long was the calling again? Is it like for a year when they call you in the church to do a specific function? Is it for a year's time or PD: Normally it's like six months to a year or three months to a year. BC: Then after that if you were to decide that you wanted to continue in that function, could you then just say to them I want to continue doing this or do they vote on it or how is that normally done? 15

OCTOBER 21, 2001 PD: I think that they always try to give everybody a chance to participate. So normally when it's time, they move you to another calling somebody else takes over. This way everybody gets a chance yeah to do something. BC: Do you, have you ever known wherein maybe someone maybe the bishop had said to someone this is your calling and we want you to do this particular function? Maybe someone would say well this is not what I want to do. How is that? Like for example if someone has like a time conflict or they can't fulfill that calling, how do they negotiate that? PD: With that I don't know how you call it. Something like that happened it is between the bishop and whomever. So I don't think anybody else would know what is going on something like that. But I know give an example with me, I used to go to a visiting teacher. Before they gave me the visiting teaching the relief society president asked me whether I would like to go to visiting teaching, and I told her oh yeah sure I would do it. So I was going to visiting teaching, and () my son was going to school, I told them with all my school work and job too it was hard for me to be going visiting teaching. So I want them to relieve me so that they can replace me. They said that's fine and they did. BC: Right. PD: () somebody else. BC: Right. Right. So what is visiting teaching? What kind of calling is that? PD: It's like they assign in the woman's relief society they assign everybody like four people to visit. It's like they are like your family in case of an emergency. So every once in a month you make an appointment and go to the house visit whatever visiting teacher and ask, give them scripture and say whatever is going on, find out how they are doing, if they need some help with housework or taking care of whatever they need and say how are you doing and everything. At the end of the month you give the report to the relief society president. BC: Oh you have to give a report of what you're visits were like. PD: Yeah. That's the only way we can get to know each other's families because if we don't do that, we don't know- EC: You don't know your church members. PD: Know members. Yeah. So everybody is assigned to one. 16

BC: So it's sort of like a support system. OCTOBER 21, 2001 PD: Support system yeah. We go every month and give them a scripture and talk about how they are doing and if they need help or anything and whatever they need you can pass it on to () this needs something. So if anybody can just stop by or something like that especially when somebody has a baby and you know that () you try to make something. I know having a baby is not easy in the first week. BC: Right. Exactly. PD: So we try to visit and give her some () the first week. BC: A little extra. What would you say about the Mormon church? What are some of the things that you like about the Mormon church that remind you about home and how you were brought up? PD: I have to say everything. They are just like a family to me. Surely for me when I am far away from home. It's like a family to me. When I first came here, I didn't know anybody but as soon as I started going to church. They are always coming, visiting me, calling me to see how I was doing. I was trying to offer to help me with () job and all this stuff. BC: So did they help you get familiar with being in the country here and helped you with finding jobs and that sort of thing. PD: Yes, they did. Yes they did all those sort of-yeah. () BC: That's good. That's good. So they're sort of like an outreach would you say. PD: Yes. Something like that. BC: Do you ever keep in contact with your Mormon sisters and brothers in Ghana? PD: Yeah. I do. But it's hard to like once in a month. Because of the phone bills I try to limit my calls, call homes. But we do keep in touch. BC: How often do you get a chance to go back home and visit? PD: When I first came, I never went home until like eight years, was it eight years? BC: Eight years. PD: Eight years that was my first trip home. When I went I travel, the reason why I went was because I heard my dad was sick. BC: Oh your dad was sick. 17

PD: So I went over there with my kids to make sure he sees his grandkids. Unfortunately when I got there, he was totally blind. So he wasn't able to see even though he could hear their voices. He wasn't able to see them. BC: Was he still working? PD: No. life in Ghana? BC: No, he had stopped working. PD: He was totally retired (). BC: What would you say were the most important things that you remember about your religious PD: Well, like I was, when I was raising up, I know my mom was Presbyterian. So we used to go to Presbyterian, which I was an inactive. I wasn't really into that church because it's like whenever I go to church I just sit down and listen to a sermon. Sometimes I don't even understand what is being said, and I just come home, and I don't get anything out of the church. So I was really inactive. BC: Inactive. PD: Yeah to- BC: As a Presbyterian. END OF TAPE 1, SIDE A 18

START OF TAPE 1, SIDE B BC: You were saying that you didn't really get anything out of the Presbyterian churches. PD: Yeah until I find the Mormon church and I have the missionaries come to me. BC: The missionaries. PD: Yeah, come to my house and teach me about the Gospel. I was investigating and reading the Bible () because in the Presbyterian church I didn't have anyone to sit down with me, go to the Bible and explain to me what is written or read. I started going, I started investigating the Mormon church I found that it was the true church because I learned a lot of () supposed to sit and read the Bible, pray about it and have a discussion instead of having somebody sitting down and just telling me how to ask questions. That was a big difference between the Mormon and the other churches. BC: So you did that when you were still at home. PD: Yes. BC: How did your mom feel about that that you were getting involved in a different church denomination? PD: She didn't really, during that time she wasn't even in the country. She was out of the country. So I was staying with my aunt. They didn't really care. BC: They didn't- PD: Yeah. () BC: Did you ever try to introduce them to the Mormon church? PD: Yeah. Actually I asked most of the missionaries to go there and talk to them. Like I am saying when they get old, it is very hard to convince them about the Mormon church. I remember there was an incident. I don't know what year it was. There was a rumor going around that the Mormon church was a CIA church in Ghana. BC: A CIA? PD: CIA, how do you call? CIA, like FBI. BC: Like the FBI in Ghana. 19

OCTOBER 21, 2001 PD: Yeah, because they were winning a lot of souls. People would convert and that just had a, when they saw the white people, they said they were FBI. So the government banned the church in Ghana. I forget what year it was. BC: They bombed the church. PD: They banned it. They put it, they stopped it like-how to, I don't know how to explain it. Banned it, they weren't able to worship anymore. BC: Okay. Oh okay. So they, did they say that no more members could join or did they just dismantle the church completely? PD: They dismantled the church. They closed everything. We couldn't worship. BC: And they closed the church down. PD: Close the church and everything down. The government had its own investigation and found out what was in the Mormon church. So during it was almost () when this happened. We weren't able to worship, but no matter what it was we go to one's house maybe to the meeting this house they would worship. But we would go to the meetinghouse to worship like we used to because, but after a year-when they found out that it wasn't true, then they release the ban and we were able to worship again. BC: So did you all build a new church, a new PD: Well we still have, they didn't bomb the church but the church was still there, but it wasn't open. It was closed like- BC: So you were allowed to go back in the church. PD: Yeah, we were allowed to go back in the church. BC: Also did they have, did the Mormon church have a temple there like they do here? PD: No. They don't have a temple. I know they have a temple in~ BC: Apex here. PD: In Nigeria. BC: Oh okay. PD: But I just had an email last Friday from a friend in Ghana that they were going to have a temple right now. So they're going to have a dedication I think next week or something. BC: Next week a dedication for this new temple in Ghana. 20

PD: Yeah, they're going to build in Ghana, and they're real excited about it. BC: Oh okay. That's interesting. So I guess when you go back to visit you'll-. Now have you been to the temple here? PD: I went during the open house. I went to that but since then I haven't been there here. They, my only reason is my husband has been inactive BC: Oh inactive. PD: Inactive you know he's not been going to church because of his job and all this thing. BC: Right. PD: It's very hard for me. I like to go as a family. So I'm just praying that one day he will change his mind and become active again so we can go. BC: So what does it take, what are some of the requirements? Well I guess what I'm trying to say is how do they go about determining whether you are inactive? Is it just that you've missed a couple of church meetings or you have missed several months. What is the cut off point and how do they come to say well this person has become inactive? PD: Probably like several months or several years. Months and years. () inactive yeah. When I came here, I was inactive too because of my job. I was working nights. So it was hard for me to go to church on Sundays until I had another job where I was working on days. I went back to church. But during the nights it was hard for me to go back to church on Sundays because I worked all nights. Then in the daytime it was like I was sleeping. So I was like inactive for a while for about three to six months until I found me another job and I started going back. Sometimes when you become inactive it is very hard for you to go back to me because I know it was very hard to go back. I feel like well nobody knows you. I'm like oh gosh I haven't been to church. How are they going to accept me if I go back or something like that so you feel like you might. It's like you always join back, but the real reason I went back I was saying one of my kid's primary teachers I just thank her for bringing them back to church because how, what happened is one day she called and she missed us. I feel like one of your kids are in primary, and we're having a primary program. So I would like the kids to participate in the primary program. So () if I come bring the kids to church and I try to use the kids as an excuse to church. () when I go to meeting well call me like- BC: So that was sort of their way to try get you back. 21

PD: Yeah. BC: In church. Well, that was good. So but so does your husband want to go back or is it just that his job wouldn't allow him to go back now because of his hours? PD: Yeah, his job is hours. That's what won't allow him to go back. BC: So what do the church leaders the authorities there, how do they look at that? Do they frown upon that when you put other things in front of or give other things priority to worshiping in church. How do they feel about that? PD: I don't think they feel bad because they believe that everybody has a job. Like I'm saying we have like a Sunday is our Sabbath day. We have some doctors at church who have to work on Sundays because of their jobs. So it's up to you. I know they are always saying that Sundays are Sabbath day. BC: Sabbath. PD: Yeah, Sabbath day we should always try to don't do these things on Sundays. Rest and then just come to church, but here it's not like that because we have patients in the hospital to take care of. The ER medicine, so it depends on what kind of job you are doing. Some of them, even though sometimes they work on Sunday, they'll be at church. () they try to come on the days where they don't work on Sundays. So even though- BC: Is that the only day that they have services? Is it just Sunday only? PD: Yeah. Only Sundays, they have it twice. BC: No evenings. PD: Day and evening. BC: Right and no other time during the week. PD: No. No. BC: Okay. That's interesting. So now like when you became inactive and like when your husband is inactive does that mean that the home teachers stop coming around or do they continue? PD: No, they continue to come. They continue to come. Actually I have, I have a visiting teaching lady who has been inactive for like six years and I was still going to visit her. BC: So she's been inactive for all that long time, but the church members still go around to visit her. 22

PD: I have a home teacher. The home teacher comes to your house and visits the family. They still come. They come and sit around. We sit down as a family. BC: That's good. That's good. So they don't stop coming just because you've become inactive. PD: No they don't stop. They still come. BC: That's good. PD: That's the good thing about it. Yeah. BC: I understand that one of the main things about the Mormon church is they place a heavy emphasis on everyone being married because they say that being married allows you to have the highest to gain the highest exaltation or salvation. When there are members there that are single, how do the church leaders do they make a push to get them married or do they try to match them up with other members in the church? PD: I don't think they try to push them, match them up. I know they have single adult meetings where they go on Sundays. So I know, I was, I have never been to that; so I can't tell here, but I know they have a single adult meetings where the mostly the single people go to have meetings on Sunday. So they can see each other and pick up a date or something. BC: That gives them a chance to meet other. PD: Chance to meet, yeah, singles. BC: Singles that are in the church. PD: Church, yeah. BC: Another member told me because she's single and she's thirty-one, and she said that once you become thirty-one that's the cut off point that you can no longer go to the singles meetings that they have there at the church. Do you know anything about that? PD: I really don't. I wish. I really don't. I have a friend who used to be in a single meeting. She probably can tell you. She's very nice. Because she was one of the single people in the church I know. They used to go there, but now they tell her to come to the main because () meeting rather than the singles. So I've never been there so I don't know anything. 23

BC: I guess because the majority of the singles there are like teenagers, older teenagers, eighteen nineteen years old. So at some point I guess they have a cut off age. So that they don't feel like they are mingling with a lot of teenagers. know anyway. PD: Yeah, probably would be some-yeah you're right. I'm not sure but might be one-i don't BC: Okay. Oh there was something else I wanted to know about the temple. What are the qualifications for people for the Latter-day Saints to be able to go into the temple. I understand that the temple is a very sacred place and that not everyone, not everyone who's in the Mormon church can gain access. What are some of the qualifications that you have to have in order to be able to go to the temple? PD: You have to try to be well in the church, pay your tithings, accept your call, fulfill your callings all that stuff. BC: So is there something like a card that they give you, some kind of ID. PD: You have to have an interview with the bishop. BC: An interview. PD: Yeah, before you go to temple. He has recommended you before you go to the temple. You have an interview with the bishop. BC: Have you ever had an interview with the bishop before? PD: He told me, he asked me all these questions and then told me whenever I'm ready I should let him know. But I told him I don't think I'm ready to go the temple. That's what I told him. BC: Why did you think that you weren't ready to go to the temple? PD: Like I was saying, you have to be well, pay your tithings, be active and I've been unanswered for my timings all this kind of stuff. He even told me that I don't really have to do the tithings. I don't have to unless I want to. It's up to me. If I want to pay my, if I cannot afford it, I should not worry about it. BC: So what are some of the things that they do at the temple? PD: Sealings for those who, baptisms for the death, our forefathers who didn't get a chance to hear the Gospel before they died. We can baptize them so baptize them in their name so~ BC: So how is I'm a little confused about that. How does that work? You're saying the people who didn't get a chance to be baptized before they died or~ 24

OCTOBER 21, 2001 PD: Yeah or even accept and knew the Gospel, learn the Gospel before they died. BC: So they weren't Mormons before they died. PD: Yeah. BC: Is that for family members or~ PD: Family members like genealogy work. You've heard about the genealogy work to know your great grandfathers and all this stuff. BC: Right. So it is your ancestors that you're doing the baptism for or just people, family members that are in your that are in your immediate family. But like say for instance if your grandmother or grandfather lived with you now in the home, and they were to pass away, but they weren't Mormons. That's when you go to the temple to baptize, to do a baptism for them? PD: Yeah, you do that for them and like ancestors, not those who are living but those who you didn't get a chance to know them. They baptize for them too. BC: Ancestors from way back. And so you would go and do a baptism for them. PD: Ancestors. Baptism for them, yeah. BC: How would you know if they were not Mormons or not once you've discovered that they were your ancestors? PD: Your ancestors. Well, I guess that's how I would do a family tree and can ask your mom a question and it goes to grandmother and pass () that's where you get all those answers from. BC: Oh okay. So what is really the purpose then to do a baptism for them in their name even though they're dead. What does that do? PD: Because in the scriptures I forgot the name of this, but it says a man is born with a water on the spirit. He cannot go to heaven unless you are baptized with water your spirit cannot go to heaven. It's based upon that. BC: Okay. So this PD: To enable you to go heaven you baptize. BC: Okay. So this makes it so that they would gain entry into heaven. PD: Heaven, yeah. BC: And is there some kind of afterlife in heaven? 25

PD: Yeah. OCTOBER 21, 2001 BC: What is that like? PD: Just like we live in a spirit world. If you know do good deed in your lifetime you () spirit. BC: So the same family that you have here they will be there. PD: Yeah. You seal them in the temple afterlife you're going to be together. () temple like same family for eternity. BC: Okay. How does the sealing ceremony. How does that work? PD: I know, I haven't had mine yet. So I can't tell you about it. I know one of my friends was telling me, I know both families go there in a room, and it's like a big mirror right there. BC: A mirror. PD: Yeah. So you look inside and you see yourself in it. What is it like-you say a prayer. BC: Is it the bishop that has to do the sealing? PD: I don't really know. I think whoever is over the temple or something. It can be the bishop or whoever on that day the temple can do it. BC: So does the sealing guarantee that you and your family will be together then? PD: Yeah. BC: In the afterlife. PD: In the afterlife, yeah. BC: If you weren't sealed, then that means that there's no guarantee. PD: There's no guarantee. BC: That's interesting. Okay, what are some of the roles that the men play in the church in the Mormon church? PD: I know they have the priesthood holder which allows them to baptize and also confirm a member of the church, pray and- BC: Do the women, are they ever able to do some of the same functions that the men do or no? PD: The women don't have any priesthood in the church. The men have the priesthood. They have the authority to use their priesthood to baptize, confirm and pray when somebody is sick, your home 26