Lillian Daniel On Collegial Friendships Nurturing Pastoral Agility (Third in a three-part series of conversations with members of the Pastors Working Group) Interviewer: Tracy Schier Introduction: This is the last of a three-part series of conversations with pastors who participated in the Pastors Working Group, an initiative sponsored by the Louisville Institute and one of several Lilly Endowment programs designed to assist and study pastoring in the United States. Through conversation, shared readings, and writing the participants examined in depth their greatest concerns and joys, their challenges and hopes. This and the numerous other programs for pastors contribute to the Endowment s commitment to create, in the words of Vice President for Religion Craig Dykstra, a cycle of learning from and for pastoral leadership for the sake of congregational life. The 12-member Pastors Working Group met eight times, for two and a half days over eighteen months. They were accompanied in their spiritual and intellectual journey by Craig Dykstra and Chris Coble of the Endowment Religion Division staff and Jim Lewis and David Wood of the Louisville Institute. The first conversation in this series was with Father Jack Wall of Old St. Pat s in Chicago. The second was with Rev. Ann Svennungsen of Trinity Lutheran Church in Moorhead, Minnesota. For six years Lillian Daniel has served as Senior Minister of the Church of the Redeemer (United Church of Christ) in New Haven, CT. Under her leadership the congregation has increased membership to become a diverse community Page 1 of 1
that welcomes families with children as well as retirees, gay couples, and graduate students. Rev. Daniel holds her bachelor s in religion from Bryn Mawr and her M.Div. from Yale Divinity School where she currently serves as a lecturer in homiletics. She is a founding member and board chair of the Connecticut Center for a New Economy which seeks to bring leaders from labor, religion and the community together to work on issue of economic justice. She is the co-chair of Elm City Congregations Organized, a grass roots community organizing group in the IAF tradition. She is married to Lou Weeks, and is the mother of Calvin, age 9, and Abigail, age 6. This conversation is edited. Q. When you were invited to participate in the Pastors Working Group did you have any particular expectations? A. I had been part of a group with David Wood at the Louisville Institute so I had some experience with this type of activity. Nevertheless, before we actually got started I was a bit skeptical about the purpose. We were given many books to read and I thought that perhaps we were supposed to be a kind of sounding board for the Endowment an experimental lab maybe to critique the books that they fund and help them determine what kinds of publications are successful with pastors and congregations. But once we got started I soon realized that we were there for much more profound reasons. We were able to mutually shape the experience and to learn together. The leadership of the group truly became open to the Holy Spirit and was useful to all of us in many different ways. It became clear that many of the books were geared for our spiritual and pastoral growth, as were the conversations and the writing assignments. And we made clear from the start that we were not there to whine, that we were there to focus on challenges we could do something about. Q. The others in the group to whom I have spoken referred often to the pastoral imagination and how each person in the group applies that term to him/herself. How does the pastoral imagination work for you? Page 2 of 2
A. I think our work together as a group assisted my understanding of the pastoral imagination, the ecclesial imagination. I was able to see what things in my day-to-day work in my congregation stand in the way and to try to figure out if the pastoral imagination is something that can be nurtured or is it something you are born with. And I think the answer to both of those questions is yes. Just as some people are born with and nurture their musical imagination or their poetic imagination, we pastors must do the same with the imaginative processes that we put into service for God and others. The wonderful thing about the group was that we went so far beyond the usual gripe session that often occurs when pastors get together. Each member was extremely thoughtful, and at the same time, able to be self-critical. Interestingly, during the period when we were meeting, several of our members made significant life changes, for example, leaving pastoral ministry to go into seminary administration or teaching. I truly believe that their decision-making was not unconnected to the group s soulsearching conversations and our renewed emphasis on thinking vocationally. I learned that the pastoral imagination cannot be taught but it can be nurtured and must be treated lovingly. A lot of gifted people don t stay in ministry because their pastoral imagination has not been nurtured. Along with the pastoral imagination one needs to develop a kind of pastoral agility. All week long we are doing a delicate dance balancing the job parts of pastoring with the creative part. That s why we need reinforcement from colleagues and friends. And we need to be told by others and realize ourselves that we are not schizophrenic. Q. Can you talk a bit about the books that the group read and how they influenced both your conversations and your own understanding of your vocation? A. One of the best books that we read was Eugene Peterson s The Unpredictable Plant. Peterson hammers away at the professionalization of the clergy and has the courage to name those things, like ambition and ego, that can be so disruptive to one s pastoral ministry. Another wonderful prompt for all of us as we re-imagined our pastorates was Rick Lischer s Open Secrets. This book is a memoir of Lischer s first years in ministry and we could identify with his experiences as we thought about our own challenges and shared, with each other, some of our own high and low points. Bear in mind what I said before, however, we amazingly avoided becoming a therapeutic session or a gripe session. Page 3 of 3
We also read some books that had to do with money why pastors are uneasy about money issues, why this attitude is endemic throughout the churches. One of the most enlightening books along these lines was Sandra Eli Wheeler s book on the New Testament and money, Wealth as Peril and Obligation. She helped us to understand why it is so hard to proclaim the good news to those who are poor and she delved into practical issues such as tithing. Q. Were there surprising points of ecumenical agreement (or disagreement) as the group progressed with its conversations? A. This group was able to absolutely shatter stereotypes of other denominations. I think I already knew this, but the group really reinforced in me how well being in an ecumenical group can shape one s own imagination and challenge us to understand our own ability to ask social analysis questions. One of our members, a Canadian Mennonite, was like our conscience. For example, when we would go out to an upscale restaurant he would remind us to think about the ramifications of spending money in such a way. Also, something else that the group prompted in me was the understanding that from here on my collegial friendships will often be with people outside of my denomination. The group was very supportive of my own dedication to economic justice work here in the city of New Haven. And they made me understand something that I knew about myself, but had been avoiding that is, that I should be writing more for the wider church. And I am doing that now. So you see, we really did push one another, not in a therapeutic way, but in a holy rebuke way. After the Working Group sessions were over I started teaching preaching at Yale. These members of the group challenged me to gain more confidence to think more broadly about the church. They helped me develop a confidence that I did not have before. Q. Has the experience of the Pastors Working Group influenced your own spiritual life? A. It did not change my practices drastically, but certainly I was enriched learning about the others practices. One example: a Catholic member of the group who introduced me to readings about contemplative prayer. That was a Page 4 of 4
wonderful influence. I also have to say that our worship together was incredibly meaningful. At the end we decided that we wanted a really big worship service and so we developed a ceremony of baptismal renewal. Craig Dykstra led special prayers for each person that included laying on of hands. It was one of the most memorable experiences of my life having such a service in this ecumenical setting. Q. After this experience, is there any advice you would give to someone who is starting to work as a pastor? A. The importance of collegial friendships Christian friends across denominational lines. It is so possible to have deep friendships with people whose theology differs from yours, and it is immeasurably enriching. You have to be selective about your clergy friends, but once you have found good ones they can infuse you with hope. From the experiences of such friendships you are able to look at your own ministry and vocation with new, fresh eyes and I m certain that a congregation benefits when a pastor has such relationships. I would also stress the importance of mentors. The Pastors Working Group was so rich for me because I was one of the younger members and it was like having a room full of mentors. Young persons starting their pastoral ministry should seek out persons with experience who can be mentors as well as friends. Q. Are there things you learned in the Group that should be shared with seminaries? A. As I have discovered the importance of recovering writing as part of my pastoral vocation I have thought a lot about the huge gap that exists between academy and church. You see this gap when you go to seminary there is the divide between those who are planning to go into seminary or university teaching and who must write for tenure, and those who intend to spend their lives in pastoral ministry. So we find that there are the works of scholarship produced by seminary professors and then at the other end of the spectrum are the popular works. But the huge gap in the middle is what needs to be filled in. Scholars like Dorothy Bass recognize this. Her books, such as Practicing our Faith and Receiving the Day, are doing a lot to fill that gap. Other scholar/writers such as Stephanie Paulsell (Honoring the Body) and Richard Lisher who I mentioned before, are also contributing greatly. Page 5 of 5
Something that needs to be addressed can seminaries help people with this? I would hope so is how do persons in pastoral ministry fit writing into their busy lives of administration, preaching, serving their congregation? How does such a person develop the discipline of writing as a part of pastoral vocation? Seminaries could help by not stressing the divide between pastoral ministry and teaching as much as they do and by encouraging those who are called to pastoral ministry to consider writing for the church. Q. We hear a lot about all of the challenges that pastors face on a daily basis. From your perspective, what are the greatest of these challenges? A. Unlike a lot of people in ministry, I am not at all feeling depressed about my work. I love my ministry. But I would say that good preaching is one of the biggest challenges for anyone. So many pastors get sucked into the lists of tasks they have to do, the meetings they have to attend, and so on, that they do not put enough of their energy into producing good sermons. A pastor really cannot have a vital ministry without good preaching. The people are hungry for good preaching. So much hinges on the worship moment. Also, I think a challenge is having the confidence to do things differently than the church down the street. And I think the role of lay leaders in worship services is a big challenge that we need to address. In my congregation for the past couple of years we have invited lay women and men to share their experiences and witness to their faith through testimonies. This is something that has not been a traditional part of the UCC worship life. You really have to trust the Spirit a lot in this process. We invite persons to give testimonies but we do not coach them in any way. Initiating this in our congregation was a leap of faith on my part. I had to trust our laity s ability to communicate to fellow members of the congregation on those aspects of their faith life that are most meaningful. The results have been worth the risk. This has been good for developing the sense of community among members of the congregation. And if you are really honest about why people join a congregation it is for community the hunger for God is there also, but it often is buried under the surface. Opening the worship service up has caused me and my staff to let go of some control sometimes the testimonies take the sermon right out of the spotlight! Page 6 of 6
Q. Has anyone in your congregation ever said no when asked to give a testimony? A. You would think so. But everyone who has been asked has come through. You really have to respect the risk that they are willing to take when they do this to share the most important aspects of their faith life. Q. What insights might you have about recruiting young people to pastoral ministry and about serving young people in general? A. I have become very intentional about this. And I m happy to share that right now three members of our congregation are studying for the ministry. Getting young people in and keeping them in is a challenge. We lose people in the seminary who might be wonderful pastors but they decided on academic careers instead. We need to recover a sense of intellectual rigor in the life of a pastor. In my teaching at Yale I do a kind of side ministry with students, encouraging them to consider ministry to the wider church. In my own congregation we have many members who are transitional. They are graduate students who will move on. I worried about that when I was looking at attendance six years ago, but the Pastors Working Group helped me to see that working with these young people was a special ministry. And something must be working because when I started at this church we would have about 30 people at services, now we have 130 and a flourishing Sunday School as well. Q. You make pastoring sound like a charmed life? A. Well, while not to diminish the importance of all the challenges, I do believe that there is a beauty to this pastoral life that is a rare gift. It is a privileged life to serve God, to serve God s people what could be better? Page 7 of 7