The Flourishing Culture Podcast Series How to Be a Servant Leader October 31, 2016 Ken Blanchard Male: Welcome to the Flourishing Culture Podcast, brought to you by the Best Christian Workplaces Institute, helping Christian organizations set the standard as the best, most effective places to work in the world. This is the podcast where you ll learn how to build a flourishing workplace culture that can take your organization to the next level. In the next few minutes, you ll hear practical insights to create employee engagement that drives the effectiveness and impact of your organization, your church, or your company. Now here s your host, BCWI president, Al Lopus. Al Lopus: What can leaders learn from the greatest leadership role model of all time? Our guest today not only coined that phrase but is also known as one of the most influential leadership experts in the world. Today we have the great privilege and pleasure of speaking with Ken Blanchard. Ken s writing career includes over 60 books, including The One Minute Manager that has sold over 13 million copies. Many of us know Ken as a passionate conference speaker and co-creator of the Lead Like Jesus movement. Ken s official title is Chief Spiritual Officer of The Ken Blanchard Companies, a global firm that allows organizations to create results-oriented and people-focused leaders. Hi, Ken, and welcome to our podcast today. Ken Blanchard: What a pleasure and a joy to be with you, that s for sure. Al: It s so good to have you with us. I ll bet you get a lot of questions about your title at The Ken Blanchard Companies. Tell us how you came to choose the Chief Spiritual Officer title. Ken: Well, it s interesting, Al. I was having lunch with Max De Pree one time, the legendary chairman of Herman Miller. I said, What s your job as the chairman of this great company? He said, Ken, I have to be like a third-grade teacher. I have to say the vision and values over and over and over until people get it right, right, right. I thought, That s really interesting. What could I do for that? Best Christian Workplaces Institute 1
Right about that time, one of our top people who worked with us had just married a fabulous guy. They went on their honeymoon and came back home and found out he had melanoma. She called me, crying, and said, Ken, would you pray for us? I said, Absolutely. Then I thought it was kind of silly for me to pray just by myself. We have an intercom system, a voicemail system, so I went on it and I said, Kathy and Al are in trouble. Let s pray for them. There was such an outreach from that. People said, Ken, you ought to do that more often. Right about that time, my wife had stepped down as president. She s the head of the office of the future. I think a lot of companies get in trouble, because they realize you have to manage the present and create the future, but if you send people with present-time responsibilities away to create the future, they ll probably kill your future, because they re either overwhelmed with the present or vested interest. So Marjorie decided, when I came up with that concept, to step down from president. She said she promoted herself up to head of the office of the future. They started doing studies about what s happening in our industry. One of the studies they did was, What makes an organization that has a really high-spirited culture? So they did. You know, you have to have some clear values. You have to have a mission that s bigger than yourselves. People love to invest with companies that really are making a difference, like Chick-fil-A. You need to have culture that really builds on that. So I said, Boy, I think I m going to leave morning messages, and why don t I become the chief spiritual officer? We have every faith and non-faith, but nobody minded that. That s really my role: to keep the spirit up. I do three things, Al. I tell people who to pray for and send love and support to, and nobody objects to that. Then I praise people, and then I give them an inspirational message on something I ve read or heard recently. It s been fun. Al: That s great. So you re the Chief Spiritual Officer, creating a highly spirited culture. Fantastic. Our listeners know a lot about your contributions to the disciplines of leadership, and many have heard you speak at large conferences, but not many know about your most recent role in your church. Tell us about that. Ken: Well, what happened is our pastor, who is a good buddy of mine He was with us 17 years. All of his kids and grandkids were back east, so they decided to retire. So we were saying, We need an interim pastor. I know what happens with interim pastors. They go find some semi-retired guy. He comes in and does all the preaching and all that kind of thing. We have two fabulous young pastors, a man and a woman who work with the youth, who nobody had ever heard preach, and a great Egyptian pastor who has an Arabic service. He gets a big crowd coming in, including people from Orange County. The only one they had ever heard was the executive pastor. A friend of mine told me how you can always tell when God is talking to you, because you think of an idea you never would have thought yourself. I m driving home one day from work, and I was thinking about the church. All of a sudden I said, Why don t you become interim pastor? I said, Where did that come from? He said the second criteria is "Would the Devil like you to do it?" So I said, Well, it s an interesting idea. I emailed the committee that was looking into this and said, What do you think if I come to interim? They got all Best Christian Workplaces Institute 2
excited, and they got it through the presbytery, but they said I can t be considered an interim pastor because I m not ordained, so they call me interim coach. It has really been fun. I got the five of us, the four pastors and me Every five weeks, one of us preaches. One of the things I found is the reason why a lot of pastors don t engage in leadership in their church is they don t have time. I mean, if you re giving 45 messages to the same audience, it s hard for you to have extra time. You ll get a kick out of this. When I met Norman Vincent Peale and we were going to write a book together on ethics, he had just retired from Marble Collegiate in New York at 80. I said, Norman, why did you retire? He said, Blanchard, someday you ll realize it s easier to find a new audience than a new speech. I ve also re-visioned the whole church so that we really have a sense that our mission is to worship God and reflect the love of Jesus in serving others, and our vision is to be a church that embraces the community, gathers his followers of Jesus, shares life together, and joins in what God is doing in the world. Then we have four values: love, grace, integrity, and community. It s just amazing. We had a card printed up, and people have them in their office. They re using it when they re in meetings. Is this consistent with our mission, vision, and values? I m loving seeing that too. Al: I was looking at the website, and I saw the purpose and the vision and the value statements. It looked familiar in terms of just process that I ve read that you ve written so well in so many of your books. I thought, Great. Already Ken is practicing what he preaches. Ken: I tell you, this preaching that I get to do every five weeks Boy, I ve learned so much. My wife is tracking. She said, It takes you about 50 or 60 hours to prepare a good sermon. Al: Well, it sounds like at least she said it was a good sermon. Ken: Yeah, it has really been fun. That Bible is a really good book, Al. Al: There you go. There s a lot in there, isn t there? Ken: Wow. There s not one problem that you can t find a solution in there. Al: That s great. Ken, you re very familiar with Christian organizational and church leadership issues, and I know you re friends with and coach a number of senior pastors of large churches and leaders of Christian organizations. What do you see as possibly two or three key leadership challenges that exist today? Ken: A lot of people don t understand servant leadership, which I think is what we really Jesus said that s what we re supposed to be. Even I have come to serve, not to be served. There are two parts to it. One is the vision and direction part, and that s where you have to have your mission, vision, and values, and then you can put goals. Best Christian Workplaces Institute 3
One of the big issues is a lot of pastors haven t clarified what their organization is all about and what s going to guide their journey, their values, and haven t set really clear goals. So they kind of work from week to week or month to month and don t have a sense. That s the biggest problem. Once they set that vision (and you want to involve as many people), the next problem they have is turning that pyramid upside-down. When Jesus washed the feet of the disciples, he was saying, This is the servant part of servant leadership. He had a vision for the disciples. He wanted to make them fishers of men. The vision was to go and make disciples of all nations. Then the values were to love God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul, and to love thy neighbor as thyself. He had kind of a slow group. It took them a while to get it all. Then the tough part for people is to turn that pyramid upside-down, because somehow they think they re going to lose their position. What did Jesus say right after he washed the feet of the disciples? The first thing he said was, You call me Teacher. You call me Lord, rightly so. He wasn t giving that up, but he said essentially, What I have done for you, you need to do for others. I find that is a real challenge of pastors and leaders in churches: to realize, Well, God, if we set this vision and direction and goals and all, then we should be at the bottom of the pyramid, cheering everybody on, not at the top, walking around with a frown, evaluating and judging people. We re supposed to be the head cheerleader. Al: The head cheerleader. There you go. So, first, servant leadership and, second, turn the pyramid upside-down, and really cheer others to do the work that needs to be done. Ken: That s the second part of servant leadership, the leadership part, which is vision, direction, and goals, and the servant part is helping people accomplish and live according to the vision and values. Al: That s great. Ken, I love your exhortation in Lead Like Jesus that servant leaders ask for feedback while self-serving leaders spend a lot of time protecting their status. I know you re familiar with the Best Christian Workplace Survey, because your team at Lead Like Jesus is certified as a Best Christian Workplace. From your perspective, how do leaders benefit from conducting a broad-based employee engagement survey like ours? What are your thoughts? Ken: When I got involved with the church, one of the first things I said was, We have to take the Best Christian Workplace Survey. As I ve said for years, feedback is the breakfast of champions. We need to know what we are doing well and what we need to do better. Your whole survey is about engagement and culture. As Peter Drucker said many times, culture can eat strategy for lunch. If you don t have a good culture and an engaged workforce, then you can have the best strategy in the world; you re just not going to have people who are going to implement it. What we did is right away we got ahold of you and said, How can we set this thing up? It has been really helpful, because the pastor who had left was a wonderful guy but wasn t too much for a lot of the leadership kinds of issues. So we wanted to see, Where are we? What is the benchmark? Best Christian Workplaces Institute 4
So we found out what we were doing well and what we needed to work on. It s really powerful stuff. We found out we really needed to work on our communication. We also learned we needed to look at how we re paying and dealing with people. It was really good data that all of our different ministries now are looking at. What s great about your survey is not only you get it for the total church, but you break it down in departments, if you have enough people in it. I think it s a really powerful thing. It s kind of a starting place. I m so proud of my buddy Bill Hybels. I showed Bill s video. It s so important to look at who in your group are culture builders and who are culture busters. What a fabulous concept that is. Al: He has been really helpful in the church world, just promoting this concept of staff engagement and having healthy cultures. I love your comment, Ken (and I quote you frequently, especially after a leadership team has received some feedback that maybe their culture isn t as healthy as it could be), that feedback is the breakfast of champions. There s no question. Ken: Somebody said, I m getting a little bit too much breakfast lately. As long as you don t get defensive and you say, Wow, I want to know where we are, and then how do we get better? I think that s what we re excited about. People are working on different issues, and then next year we want to take it again and see how we ve improved. We don t expect to overnight go from having problems to being on the All-Star team. Al: Exactly. Measurement is a key aspect. One of the domains of leadership is the condition of the leader s heart. This is something you ve talked about in Lead Like Jesus, but it s not something that s talked about much in the marketplace. You get right to the heart issues by identifying that some leaders edge God out (or EGO, in that sense) and operate from a place of pride and fear, while a spiritually mature servant leader operates from a place of humility and God-grounded confidence. Talk about these two contrasting heart conditions and how someone s heart and leadership can be transformed to become more like Jesus. Ken: Well, you ll get a kick out of it, Al. In Lead Like Jesus, we developed a 12-step EGOs Anonymous program. In our training, we actually hold an EGOs Anonymous meeting. If you ve ever had anybody who has been involved with Alcoholics Anonymous or Overeaters Anonymous, or whatever, it s all voluntary, but we get people in groups standing up and saying, Hi, I m Ken, and everybody will say, Hi, Ken. I say, I m an egomaniac, and then what I have to do is tell them an example in the last 48 hours when my ego has gotten in the way, either with false pride, where I ve acted like I m more than ( I m smarter than, I m brighter than this or that ), or fear or self-doubt when I have a less-than outlook, where I think I m not as smart as, I m not as good as, you know, all that kind of thing. What s really important for people to understand is if they can t tell me an example in the last 24 hours where their ego has gotten in the way, they lie about other things too. God sent Jesus down to the earth because we all fall short of perfection. One of the ways we separate ourselves from God is to start focusing on ourselves as the center of our universe, either with false pride, where we think we re better than other people, or fear or self-doubt, when we think we re not as good as other people. Best Christian Workplaces Institute 5
It gets to really be powerful. People laugh, because they can give examples at home. They can give them all. We have some managers now around the country and some pastors and all When they have their weekly meeting with their staff, they begin it with an EGOs Anonymous meeting, and they say, Wow, does that really create a culture and an environment of support. First of all, we all realize that we re not perfect. That s why we need the good Lord in our lives. It s a really powerful aspect of the whole thing. It s really important to understand that the way we stop edging God out with false pride is with humility. Fred Smith, the great business guy from Dallas who wrote You and Your Network, said that people with humility don t think less of themselves; they just think about themselves less. He said people with humility don t deny their power or their skill; they just recognize that it passes through them not from them. Who is more humble than Jesus? The second one, the way we overcome fear and self-doubt, is to trust the unconditional love of God. Jesus modeled that perfectly in the garden. Like any kid, he asked his Father three times, Could I pass this up? Do I really have to go through this? But he said, Thy will be done and trusted his Father. It s a very important part of our whole Lead Like Jesus program. Al: To stay away from false pride we need to think about ourselves less, which is a good definition for humility, to really deal with fear (for many of us, fear is a core reaction), and just to realize that God loves us unconditionally. That s great advice, Ken. I ll bet you have a favorite story of seeing this transformation in somebody s life. Is there a story that comes to mind? Ken: You probably will say, Ken, why did you mention this? but Bill Hybels is a perfect success story. He was finally willing to take a look at his own leadership and all that kind of thing. When they took your survey the first time, it came out toxic. Bill has made a tremendous turnaround in realizing the power of the way you interact with people and what it can do for culture. After I saw the film, I called Bill and said, Atta boy! I m so proud of you. It takes a lot of guts for people to ask for feedback. I said to our staff at the church, Are you all ready for this? Because we re going to find out some things that maybe we didn t want to find out. It was a little tough. One of our least favorable items was My organization conducts its activity openly and honestly. What do you mean? Could you all give us some examples? That s one of the things we started asking people, departments, to give us examples. You learn stuff that But you can t get better if you don t get feedback. Imagine somebody trying out for high jumping in the Olympics and nobody will tell him how high he jumped. How do you get better if you don t get some feedback? Al: That s right. You ve been a champion for that. I ve read your book The One Minute Manager, and we can t leave our conversation without mentioning the book that you re best known for, The One Minute Manager. In fact, just last year, you published a new You called it The New One Minute Manager with your coauthor Spencer Johnson. In the book, you have changed one of your practical secrets. Tell us what it is and what s behind it. Ken: It s interesting, Al. We had never done an ebook in The One Minute Manager. That came out in 1982, which is a few years ago. So our publisher a couple of years ago said, We d love to get an ebook. Best Christian Workplaces Institute 6
Do you want to read it to see if you want to make any changes in it? I hadn t read it in years, and I started to read it. I started to laugh, because, first, the One Minute Manager was on his intercom system. Are you using your intercom system much, Al? Even though the secrets were great, it was really kind of a command and control, you know. The One Minute Manager was the one who was setting the goals and he was deciding who to praise and who to reprimand and all that. Nowadays, I think people, particularly younger people, want to look at leadership, rather than command and control, as side-by-side leadership, that we really have different roles but we re on the same team. So we took a look at the original secrets. One-minute goal setting is still very important, because all good performance starts with clear goals, but we made it much more collaborative goal setting in the book. The second secret is probably my favorite of all. If people said to me, Blanchard, I m going to take everything away from you you ve ever taught over the years, I d hold onto the second secret. The key to developing a great organization is to wander around and see if you can catch people doing something right and give them a one-minute praising. Then, of course, we want to deal with, What do you do if somebody is not behaving as well or the performance is not as good? In the original we called it a one-minute reprimand. When I looked at that, I said, Whoa, that doesn t sound really collaborative. So we changed it to one-minute redirects. Now when a manager sees performance that s not up to snuff, he goes to that person and says, Do you mind if I share an observation with you? The person will say, Sure. Well, I don t think the performance in this area is going as well as we had anticipated. Are you seeing the same thing? Because you want to check with them. When they realize you re not there to slam them, they re going to admit that, but if you re coming there to reprimand them, people like to cover up any mistakes they can. Once they say, Yeah, I can see Well, let s talk about how I can help you get back on track. That s what a redirect is, which is a really powerful thing for people. That s the big change: the one-minute reprimand to one-minute redirect. Al: I love that. How can I help you get back on track? The one-minute redirect. Fantastic. Thanks, Ken. It s really an honor to be with you today, Ken, on this podcast. I appreciate you making time for us. I certainly have enjoyed what we ve learned today. I really like your idea of the Chief Spiritual Officer, creating a highly spirited culture, and that you help people know who to pray for, you praise somebody, and you create an inspirational message; that you re also amongst leaders today focusing on servant leadership, helping to create a vision and direction and goals and involving people in doing that, but also then turning the pyramid upside-down, as you ve expressed for so many years, and actually helping people accomplish the work that needs to be done. That s fantastic. Best Christian Workplaces Institute 7
And, of course, feedback is the breakfast of champions. You articulate that so well. We ve learned a lot today. I really appreciate it. Give us one final thought you d like to leave with Christian leaders and churches, Christian ministries, or even Christian-owned businesses in the marketplace. Ken: Well, the big thing I d like to leave with them is if you want to lead in a way like I ve been talking to, go to the Gospels, because the greatest leadership role model of all time was Jesus. That s why we started Lead Like Jesus. I first started thinking about that when right after The One Minute Manager came out I was asked to be on the Hour of Power with Bob Schuller in his heyday. This was in 1983. Schuller said, Ken, I love The One Minute Manager, but do you know who s the greatest One Minute Manager of all time? I said, Who s that? He said, Jesus. I said, Really? He said, Yeah, he was really clear on goals. Wasn t that your first secret, one-minute goals? I said, Yeah. He said, Ken, you and Tom Peters didn t invent management by wandering around; Jesus did. He wandered from one little village to another little village. If anybody showed interest, he d praise them, heal them. Isn t that your second secret, one-minute praising? I said, Yeah. He said, When people stepped out of line, he wasn t afraid to give them a one-minute reprimand or redirect their energy. He threw the moneylenders out of the temple. Isn t that your third secret? Yeah. He said, He s the greatest One Minute Manager of all time. I was on my spiritual journey then, and I went to the Gospels, and I just started to laugh, because everything I had ever taught or written about leadership Jesus did with these 12 inexperienced followers. He s the greatest leadership role model of all time, and it s all in the Bible. Al: Yeah, it is. I ve found that all of that works in the marketplace. If you follow those principles that Jesus taught, it works in the marketplace. That has been my experience. Ken: Yeah, it really does. Al: Certainly it works in Christian organizations. Thanks for sharing your wisdom, stories, and insights, and thank you for extending your ministry to leaders who have been listening and benefiting from all we ve shared today. Well, my friends, remember: your leadership is a gift. Let s work together to be sure Christian organizations set the standard as the best, most effective places to work in the world. We ll see you next time on the Flourishing Culture Podcast. Male: For a free transcript of today s podcast, visit blog.bcwinstitute.org. Your feedback is very important. Leave a comment on our blog post or reach out on social media (@BCWInstitute). Also please click over to itunes and simply rate the Flourishing Culture Podcast. Your help lets us reach more people with the same content you ve enjoyed today. While you re there, be sure to click Subscribe to get a fresh episode delivered to you each Monday morning. The Flourishing Culture Podcast with Al Lopus is a presentation of BCWI, the Best Christian Workplaces Institute, dedicated to helping Christian organizations set the standard as the best, most effective places to work in the world. Best Christian Workplaces Institute 8