Transcript- Laura F. Ziemba (Compiled April 15, 2008)

Transcript- Laura F. Ziemba (Compiled April 15, 2008) Interviewee: Laura Ziembla Interviewer: Laura Pierson Interview Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Hillsborough, North Carolina Length: Approximately 1 hour 8 minutes (Tracks One & Two) Track One/ 00:00 Laura Pierson: It is April of 2008 and I am here with Laura Ziemba. She is a middle school art teacher in Hillsborough, NC. How did you come to teaching art? Laura Ziembla: Right before I got married in FL which was in 1988 my husband was getting ready to go teach too and he said why are you not a teacher- because I was working with special ed kids and my major was art. I said, "I just never thought about what to go do with it." He said "you should go teach." I applied, it was a critical shortage area and I was hired with no certifications. I had to take a few education classes and the praxis tests both in Florida and here- I don't know why. And then I didn't have to student teach. P: Oh wow. Z: Yeah, so I was just sort of grandfathered in and I've been teaching ever since. P: It is really hard to find a job teaching art. Z: Yeah, especially now. But in Florida at that time in Palm Beach County they had just opened up seven elementary schools with 2 art teachers in each one of them. P: What year was that? Z: 1988. Yep, that was my first year teaching. I think I was born to do it. It comes

naturally. P: Wow. Z: Yeah, pretty wild. P: And retirement is 30 years? Z: I won't be able to because I moved from South Florida to North Carolina and because there is no reciprocity between the two states. I don't understand why reciprocity is not countrywide. So I lost time and I'm only nine years into my retirement. If I stay in the state of North Carolina and I'm forty-seven, so I would be sixty-eight. Track One/ 3:25 Z: Forest Hill, Pennsylvania. It is the highest point in PA. I go for nine weeks and run the craft shop. It's a blast. P: How long have you been doing that? Z: Four years. Track One/ 3:43 P: It is so nice to have a separation in the summertime. Z: Yeah, and I predominantly do adult classes. P: What do you do with them? Z: Ceramics P: Have you heard of Penland School of Crafts? It is kind of like art camp for adults. Z: Yeah, that sounds so nice. I'd love to be able to take a class and work on my own craft and I don't even know what that is anymore. P: Well, do you feel like you have a little more time in the summer?

3 Z: I teach a lot, but I have more time up there I think because I work at eight in the morning 'til twelve at night. P: Oh really? Z: Yeah, we have breakfast, lunch, and dinner off, but I'm there for all intense purposes. So I have more time to sit with the campers and the adults and paint with them and talk and show them how to do it, so I have more time to do stuff there than I have here. I'm too busy running after three kids. P: How old are your children? Z: Luke is 11, he will be twelve on Saturday. Zachary my oldest is sixteen, he is a sophomore. And Toby, my daughter, is fourteen and she is a freshman. She is at home sick. Excuse me. She addresses her son across the room. Lukie will you call Dad and make sure that he is picking Toby up? He is just a little upset, he had straight A's. P: And the one C. Z: Yeah, and the last time I heard from her it was a 99.6, so I am a little concerned. Her classroom is right across the hall, she could have told me. I work in the same building. If it were me I would go to them. As a teachers's kid, you know there are very few perks to being a teacher. P: How do you feel about the difference between elementary and junior high? Z: I taught elementary for fifteen years and I liked it, but I like my little kids. P: Forty-five minutes. And the classes are large and they don't give their assistant to you. So it is really difficult and I burned out. Z: Well, it's like it's activity time.

P: Yeah, and I ask "can I have your assistant because we would like to paint today." You know, you have twenty-five to thirty kids you have to put paint smocks on all of them. Z: You know their attention span. A child in kindergarten wouldn't sit in a kindergarten class for that long, so why are you gonna give them art for that long? P: Ten minutes. Z: Right, so I realized that I really liked 3 rd, 4 th, and 5 th grade. Track One/ 9:04 Z: My first semester in middle school was awful. You know the little kids love you for no matter what you do. I had never had a student raise their voice at me. P: Yeah, they'll be skeptical of you from the start. Z: Oh yeah, I'd never had a kid call me a name. And when they get mad middle school kids will do that. I just didn't know what to expect. It was overwhelming. The issues with the girls and the cat fights. You know, that happens. So, second semester my husband, who had been a principal here, said you have to be- excuse my language- a bitch. So I went in that second semester and I was a bitch. You have to. But now it has been five years in middle school and I could leave eighty dollars on this table and I would walk out, come back in, and it would still be there. P: Really? Z: Yeah. I had eight dollars stolen once. And I didn't tell them how much it was, I just told them I had money stolen. I told them I'd give them the shirt off my back if I had to. And they know that. So within two hours that money was right back here, exactly the same- it was five and three ones. They all put there phone numbers in my phone, you know I'm not gonna call

them, but when I say, "it is time to do work," they do there work. I think middle school isn't just about what I do in this room. It is coaching track it is going to any event that I can possibly go to and support them. What a tough age. I think they trust me more because I will help them. Like we had a young lady here today. Her mother just died of breast cancer. P: Oh boy. Z: Yeah, so she is in here and she says "I just want everything to be normal. Can I have your phone number in case I need a mom?" How are you gonna say no? "Yes, here is my home phone. Call me if you need me." You know and I think teachers in this building who meet their kids half-way like that, not necessarily phone numbers, but just letting them know I'm a human being too and if you want to cry, that is okay. I have kids coming in here asking me for- you know the clay comes in twenty-five pound blocks- 'cause they're mad. Well what are you going to do? We talk about this. Do you want to yell at the teacher or yell at the kid you are mad at? Or take it out in another manner. I tell 'em go in my back room and I'll tell 'em go scream or I'll give them the clay and they'll go punch the clay down. And they feel better. P: That is awesome, because I think this is why art is such a strong point in junior high. Z: And they should all be able to take it. They don't all get it. P: Oh, they have to sign up for it? Z: They are so programmed all day long and they are under such stress with the EOG tests. That is all anybody cares about anymore is that number. How many kids did you have pass? And I think that this is one class where they can come in-1 probably know more about the teachers than they would- because I will sit with them and we just do our work once I've introduced it. And I know who is going out with who and who did what. And I've been able to

6 stop fights because I've heard them talk about it or they'll come to me and these two are gonna go at it. So they just need some down time. There is no down time in schools anymore. They don't even take them outside. I mean it is required so their outside is walking from the top of the building down to lunch. It is ten seconds outside. P: So it is from one cinder block room to the next. Z: Right all day. So that is why in my room I let them listen to music. But they know, when I talk you be quiet and if they don't they know there will be consequences. P: Do they get to choose what music they listen to? Z: Yes, as long as there is no swearing I don't care. And I'm not a rap fan, but I will let them listen to it because they work harder. Sometimes I make them listen to mine. They know who ACDC is now. But, I would much rather teach middle school than any other grade level. I love these kids. I really honest to god love my job. I get to come to school every day and have fun. I have moments, like just now, but that wasn't even involved with my kids in class, that was because of my own child. But, whatever, that is not important... P: Well what kind of backgrounds are these kids coming from? Z: I would say seventy percent white, twenty-eight percent African American, and the rest are mostly Hispanic. And it is a real the have and the have-nots. There are very few in between. I would say we're about 35% free and reduced lunch which is not too bad, which is higher than Chapel Hill. But, I'd say most of the kids are really good kids. They come from stable homes. And every school has your tough ones. They are having trouble dealing with the Hispanic influx in this whole county because they are behind the eight ball. Coming from South Florida, I mean I worked in an ESL center because it was seventy-five percent Hispanic. I mean they were ready

7 for that influx, but they aren't ready for that here. The demographics have changed when they divided the boundary lines a couple of years ago. But, this is a good school. I would dare anybody to leave this school and go to another one. I bring my kids here and I'm not even in this district. I think we've got a solid group of teachers here. Track Two/ 00:28 P: But you don't have curriculum, you don't have standards? Z: We do, My curriculum, if I can find it and you'll laugh. Looking... P: And who sets that? The state of North Carolina? Z: Looking... It is this big. K-12 (small). That's it. When I was in south Florida we had a unified curriculum for art and the book was this big, they gave me lessons and everything. These are basically the national strands and they want you to follow the national strands. They don't give you lessons and there is no pacing guide or anything like that. The state of FL did it so if a kid moved from county a to county c they'd be doing the same thing in every class so that they wouldn't get lost. You know all the art teachers, even the middle school ones- we all do different stuff. You go under the guidelines of the curriculum but any project you want to use to meet that curriculum. P: What does the curriculum have in mind as the ultimate goal? Z: I couldn't even tell ya. The big catch phrases are the PLC's (personal learning communities). It is hard because when you have three totally different middle schools, plus all the kids don't take art in middle school so they come from elementary having art once a week for six years. They come to the middle school and some may not take it and then they go to high school having not taken it since elementary school. They forget stuff.

8 Track Two/ 2:58 P: What do you do with your sixth graders? Z: Sixth grade since I only have them for nine weeks. We do a lot of theory. Color theory, basic drawing techniques. It is nine weeks there is not a lot of things to do with them. The three middle school teachers, we decided to teach them the basics. Principles and elements of design. Principles and elements of art. No art history whatsoever because they are only here for such a short time. P: How many days a week are they here? Z: But it is only nine weeks and they pull them out for groups... I don't care if it is ESL That is fine. I understand this. And special ed in elementary school. But they pull them out as ambassadors to give tours of the school. Track Two/ 5:00 P: Do you get a budget at all? Z: Yes it is very small. This year they started out, they told me I had $600 from one budget and $300 from another. And then I started to do my orders and they said the $300 had been spent already. I'd never had that happen. In FL it was a formula. But here they never tell me. So I went into the principal and I said this is basically enough to get me some paper, pencils, and some markers. In FL I knew that every student I had would get three dollars. So If I had 1500 in a school that is good money. But here we are terribly underfunded and I am not allowed to charge a fee. Personally when I am paying out the wazoo for these kids in high school- my daughter's band fee is $300 dollars...i'd like to be able to charge a ten dollar fee year round. P: But you are not allowed.

9 Z: No, the school board feels that there are too many fees on parents. And I agree with that, but at the same time they need to keep up with who is doing fees. I even talked to a couple school board members to tell them how much this stuff costs and they just hadn't been aware. I spent $600 dollars alone on field trips. P: How much does clay cost? Z: Clay is cheap. We buy it in bulk from this place downtown for thirty cents a pound, but that comes from another budget. But the glazes are really expensive and my slab roller has been broken for two years. I'm not going to play with those cables, they're just too tight. And it is going to cost one hundred to one hundred and fifty dollars to fix it. But there is no budget to fix stuff like that. I have no drying rack and they keep telling me there is no budget for it either. P: Do you ever find that you spend your own money? Z: Oh yeah. Last year I spent about twelve hundred dollars. You know I don't make that much and my husband doesn't either and I have three kids. So that comes out of my kids. And even when I asked them to bring masking tape- we do these big 3D things and it takes a lot of masking tape- that was a chore. I couldn't even get them to bring 2 or 3 rolls of masking tape, it would cost 'em 5 bucks. But they got money for cookies at lunch baby. I think part of it is that they just don't get the notes home. P: Oh for sure. Z: I've asked for old stockings. This is my biggest source for curriculum and lesson plans, 'cause it is a great magazine. But isn't this great? Those are stockings. I love it. For a quick sculpture project that will cost me next to nothing. Cause I have plenty of hangers. P: It is kind of the constant battle, trying to figure out how you will be able to do it with

10 such a small budget. Z: Well and when you do cheap, the paper is cheap. When you do watercolors the paper peel, it is not right. And then they want you to be more creative. Well I can't buy anything else other than basics so I how can I be more creative? P: There is less interest if there isn't... Z: But this is a great magazine. It is called Arts and Activities and they have everything from elementary to high school in it. And it is just wonderful. I used to have quite a collection before I moved from FL. P: So this has been in print for a while? Z: Oh yeah. They're good because you know they don't (i.e. that state) give you curriculum activities. So when they do this you can see they put the materials and stuff and some of them even put the art standards they address in it- learning objectives, national standards... So that helps too so that you can justify what your teaching. Because that is the big thing they all want to see; are you doing what the state says to do or the federal government... and that is kind of ridiculous. Track Two/10:00 P: What field trips do you guys go on? Z: Oh, I'm talking about field trips for my own kids. I don't take these kids on field trips because- and this sounds terrible, but it would probably be more difficult for me because I can't take 6, 7, and 8 at once. So I'd have to not only do substitute lesson plans for the kids that stay here. I won't let a sub come in and do paint with the kids or clay. They are not going to know what to do. There are certain things you have to do when you are setting up. That just comes

11 with experience or somebody telling you. So I don't usually go on field trips. If they want to go the museum, let them go with their history teacher. I just feel like I have so little time with them anyway. P: You would have to take them out for the whole day. And a class only lasts for fortyfive minutes. Z: Right, so I would be taking them out of all their other classes and then you have to write pages on what is the justification on going. To me it is about seeing art that they wouldn't see otherwise, but this isn't what they want to hear. They want to hear this stuff (point to the magazine). And personally I think this is just a lot of words that nobody is going to read. I think we dummy down our kids. P: Yeah, well maybe not letting them create their own... Z: Well, that is why I have them write a paragraph. They compare and contrast. You know we have to have writing now in the classes. We watched Johnny Quest and we compared that to Spirited Away. Tape Two/12:00 Z: And so we watched both and they took notes. We did the ven diagram. Okay guys it is time to write. And they asked, "Well how many paragraphs?" And I said, "What do you mean how many paragraphs? "Well our teacher always tells us how many paragraphs." Well to me, what if a kid wants to write more than three paragraphs? Well think about it, you are comparing and contrasting, you'll have your introduction and your closing- that is four right there. Well, "how many sentences in each paragraph? I was like "Oh my god." "Well our teachers tell us that." I think that is ridiculous. That just either stifles them

12 P: Yeah, it totally stifles you. So you guys will watch movies in here sometimes? Z: Very rarely. That was just a bad week in general, I wasn't feeling well, I needed to switch over from clay to paint. There is no time after school because I coach track. But if I'm off it is so much easier to have someone have them watch it. But, I'll try to get artsy fartsty films. We watched one on Tesselations, M.S. Escher, Chihuly, and David Hockney, We watched one on art careers so that they know it isn't just about being an art teacher or a starving artist. I love introducing them to Japanimation stuff. We talk about recent projects that have been going on in class. Tape Two/ 19:33 P: You don't really have any assistants expect when you have the special ed assistants? Z: Parents don't want to come in any more when they are in middle school and this is when we need them the most. P: This age is one of the more tricky ones. What are your biggest complaints? Or what might you change first if it were possible. Z: I would like to be able to pick and choose my year round kids. I should be able to do more stuff like figure drawing. But when you give me kids that have never drawn before you kind of have to start at ground one. I would like for kids not to be pulled out of my class ever because some kids don't excel any where else. And I would like to have money to buy supplies. If you want to have a good art program you have to have money. And I've talked to some of the Chapel Hill teachers and they do fairly well with their money. Tape Two/ 22:00 P: Are there grants that you could apply for?

13 Z: There probably are, but my time is so limited. P: Right, when do you have time aside from... Z: It is tough for me, with three kids I don't have time. You know I get home and my husband is a principal so he is never home. P: What time do you get here in the morning? Z: I don't get here 'till quarter 'til eight because my other two kids can't be at the high school. They actually sit outside for about forty minutes because they start later. P: Then you are coaching track too. Until 5:30? Z: 6 o'clock P: And then you have to go home, everybody is gonna eat and do homework... And you have no time for yourself at that point. Z: So yeah, by the time I'm done I'm exhausted and I have no time. That is okay, I know at this point in time that I'm not suppose to. There will be a time when they are all out of my home and I'll be like "Oh my gosh, I'm bored." P: It's true, you won't know what to Z: So it's okay. I'd rather be busy than sit every day and eat. Phone call from daughter. Tape Two/ 24:03-27:10 Z: That is what I would change. I guess I would like more money. P: Well, what are the most exciting moments? Z: Daily. She shows me some more of their recent work. It really took a lot. That to me is a good moment.

14 P: When they get totally engrossed in something. Z: Or and they are talking and they have no idea what time it is. And they'll talk about he did this, and he did that, and I'm standing there and they have no clue that I'm a teacher standing here. I think just the fact that they are excited to come to class makes me feel good. It is so special when they come in and they are middle school kids that are so glad to be here and lining up to take my classes. That is kind of cool. I mean there are very little kudos in teaching. When they are successful. Even when a kid isn't successful in another class and they'll get an A in here and that is such a big deal to them. P: Well it encourages them because in art you have to learn how to take control of a situation. Z: I try to do my learning objectives, but that is secondary. They may never take another art class again. But I want them to walk out of here and remember what they did in here. You know some of the stuff that I do in here is considered craftsy, but some of them can't do fine arts so why are you gonna set 'em up for failure. My job is not to fail these kids. So I tell them when they come in, if you fail, you worked harder to fail my class than you did to pass it. Because you are always going to pass if you put forth some effort. I come to school and I have a good time. P: Well it is therapeutic, I think. Z: It is great putting them on the wheel the first time. They get the clay up and they are like "wow." You know, it is just such a neat experience. I think that there are a lot of moments that are just kind of "ah ha!" moments. I like my job, there is never a morning where I wake up andgo"aaah..." P: I can't believe I have to...

15 Z: Yeah and when I see people having to do that I feel sorry for them. Yeah, I'm tired. But I think that is just a state of mind for everybody when you are working, going to school, anything like that. P: Well it seems like a lot of people are going to get their teaching certification, but they aren't exactly passionate about the subject. Z: It is because there is so much that the state and the federal government puts on you. Tape Two/28:20 Z: Sometimes you gotta push stuff aside until they can get certain stuff off their chest. I tell my principle that it's organized chaos. Sometimes you gotta get past the I didn't eat breakfast this morning before you can go okay, that is a great self-portrait. I think middle school is like that more than either of the other grades are. Tape Two/ 34:07 Z: My craft is gone. These kids in high school are good. I don't know if I could teach them enough. We talk about the good in having student teachers and guest artists. Laura Ziemba never gets student teachers, but will upon a very rare occasion, have guest artists to the school. Laura Ziemba talks about how a graphic art major from Elon University, a graffiti artist, came to class and gave a power point lecture. The kids were inspired and excited for weeks. I mentioned how there use to be an exchange between UNC art grad students and Hillsborough junior high students back in the sixties. The possibility hadn't occurred to her, but she expresses a sincere interest. Tape Two/ 33:49

16 P: So you never get a student teacher? Z: I've never had a student teacher and I've been teaching for almost twenty years. I think I'm do okay, I don't get many complaints. P: Well, I knew a girl that was getting her art education degree and she only had to take studio art classes. And I thought that was interesting that she wasn't getting any studio practice. Z: Only two? P: Yes. Z: Well that is ridiculous. Well that is like, we got these textbooks last year, four new sets. It is pretty much idiot proof. You can throw in a DVD and it will do the whole thing. Everything is written out for you. It tells you when to breath and when to think. But, the thing is my problem was that this is probably 20,000 dollars worth of textbooks. P: Which you could have used to buy new materials. Z: But, they want us to have textbooks. And I'm thinking if I do everything that textbook tells me to do- which is great, and like I said it is everything from science experiment to math problems- when am I suppose to teach hands-on art? I believe this is art class I middle school and these kids should have their hands dirty every day. Yes I have a word wall, but I don't think it necessary. Then we talk about learning practical stuff and how it is possible to integrate art history. Z: But, you know, they need a break, they are so programmed all day long. P: Do you think that they will ever do away with art? Z: They have in South Florida, they have started cutting it in South Florida. It is always the first one to go. And I think the shame is that there are tons and tons of studies to show that

17 when kids are involved in any kind of art that their grades are better. I have living proof with my daughter. She plays the saxophone. I hope they don't do away with it, because this is sometimes the only thing a student succeeds in. I have this one girl. I'll show you her picture (a drawing), but she is very shy and very reserved. But, her talent is portraiture. P: Oh, that is awesome. Z: So, I had her teach how to do noses. P: Yeah, they love to be able to share their knowledge like that. Z: So her mom wrote me this three-page letter that Hannah hadn't done her artwork in three months. Some of these kids, you just gotta plug them in. And art is a way for this. Laura E. Pierson/ April 15, 2008