0 THIS UNCERTIFIED DRAFT TRANSCRIPT HAS NOT BEEN EDITED OR PROOFREAD BY THE COURT REPORTER. DIFFERENCES WILL EXIST BETWEEN THE UNCERTIFIED DRAFT VERSION AND THE CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT. (CCP (R)() When prepared as a rough draft transcript, the transcript of the deposition may not be certified and may not be used, cited, or transcribed as the certified transcript of the deposition proceedings. The rough draft transcript may not be cited or used in any way or at any time to rebut or contradict the certified transcript of deposition proceedings as provided by the deposition officer.) Q. Okay. Was there another instance in which the City pursued nuisance abatement actions against another entity other than PPPG? A. Yes, there are two -- there are two -- the ZAB makes recommendations to the city council on what to do, and so the ZAB made a recommendation on both collectives as to whether or not they were deemed public nuisance. Q. These other entities, were they owned or operated by African-Americans? A. No, they weren't. Q. Okay. MS. McKINNEY: Can we -- which other entities?
0 MR. LEIGH: Q. There are two other entities that you described. First there's this entity that's referred to in these minutes, that's the Berkeley -- let me give the full name. We've been calling it PPPG, but it's actually the Perfect Plant Patient's Group. Is that group owned or operated by an African-American? A. No. Q. Okay. There was another entity? A. Yes. Q. That was another entity that the City went through the zoning adjustments board to pursue its nuisance abatement proceedings? A. Yes. Q. And what was the name of that entity? A. Perfect -- no. Perfect Plant Collective? No, whatever -- whichever is the name of the one on Dwight Way. Q. Dwight Way. Okay. And was that entity -- A. No. Q. -- run by or owned by African-Americans? A. No, it wasn't. MR. LEIGH: All right. I would like to pursue this in more detail, but I understand you made a determination that I can't pursue the equal protection defense. So if that's the case, I'll move on.
0 THE HEARING EXAMINER: That's the case. MR. LEIGH: Okay. THE HEARING EXAMINER: But I'm not sure where you're going with the references to discrimination and the race of individuals owning particular enterprises. Are you making a discrimination claim? MR. LEIGH: Yes. Equal protection is a reference to -- equal protection in -- can be -- can arise out of an individual -- I mean outside of the context of race, but the standards that apply will vary depending on the nature of the basis for the denial that's being alleged. And in this case, the record will show that the City has elected to treat 0 Acres and Mr. Smith differently in that the only distinguishing characteristic between Mr. Smith and these other entities is his race, and that is -- that is why he is being denied equal protection. MS. McKINNEY: Objection to "The record will show." I'd rather counsel phrase it as that's your argument and that's what you seek to prove. MR. LEIGH: Well, statement of counsel is always argument, so I don't think that needs to be explained. THE HEARING EXAMINER: Okay. Do you continue to take the position that you will not be putting
0 Mr. Smith on at this hearing? MR. LEIGH: Yes. THE HEARING EXAMINER: All right. Then I invite to you make a representation as to his race. MR. LEIGH: Oh. Mr. Smith is African-American. I don't think that's disputed. I can also get that from the witness if the -- THE HEARING EXAMINER: Well, I will tell you, just so you know where my mind is on the issue, he doesn't appear to me to be black. If that's your position, then fine; I accept that. But I don't consider that to be obvious. So I understand your representation. MR. LEIGH: I'm a little -- THE WITNESS: The founders are all black of 0 Acres. MR. LEIGH: I am a little -- I just need to understand what you mean by that when you say -- THE HEARING EXAMINER: He doesn't look black to me, sir, and didn't from the moment he walked into this room. If you're telling me he's black, that's information I don't have. How could I be more clear on that? MR. LEIGH: Well, what does a black person look like to you?
0 THE HEARING EXAMINER: You, sir, look black. I employ -- I employ black people. I know what black people look like. Mr. Smith does not look black to me, so I hope that you and the witness are enjoying this moment, but it is a serious inquiry for me. I don't understand how you make a discrimination claim based on race. If he's not black, you're telling me he is. Okay. Let's go. What else do you have? MR. LEIGH: Okay. THE WITNESS: The name? MR. LEIGH: I'm sorry? THE WITNESS: The name of 0 Acres. MR. LEIGH: I'm sorry. Good point. Q. 0 Acres was -- who start -- you started 0 Acres with Chris Smith; is that right or -- who started 0 Acres? A. Well, the founding people are myself, who is African-American and white, but I'm a black woman, Christopher Smith who is also African-American and white, a black man so he considers himself. Darro Hudspeth and Damon Tims who is also African-American. The name of our collective, 0 Acres medical marijuana growers' collective is taken directly from a historical time in history, the 0 Acres and the mule which constantly consistently represents the African-American
0 community in a historic piece of time where African-Americans were denied -- were initially given 0 Acres and a mule after slavery and then the forefathers never gave it to them. So if you have knowledge of history and you know 0 Acres, it's the -- Q. It's a signal fire to the black community? A. Exactly, to the African-American community. Q. Okay. Okay. I'm going to try to get through a few more points. A. Can I ask a question? Q. If it's okay with the hearing officer. THE HEARING EXAMINER: Ma'am, it depends. You're not supposed to be coaching your attorney. What is your inquiry? THE WITNESS: Well, my question I guess is -- and I just learned of this case recently and what's going on, and I guess just my question is why is this a private hearing and not a public hearing at the ZAB as was done with other collectives? THE HEARING EXAMINER: Okay. That definitely is a question that we will not entertain. So Mr. Leigh, please proceed. MR. LEIGH: Okay. I will. THE WITNESS: Just curious. MR. LEIGH: No, I have no further questions.
0 Thank you. THE HEARING EXAMINER: All right. Very well. Ms. McKinney representing the City may have questions of you, and so counsel are going to change chairs here for a moment. THE WITNESS: Okay. MS. McKINNEY: So actually, Mr. Cowan's going to conduct the cross-examination of Ms. Groves. THE HEARING EXAMINER: Mr. Cowan. MR. COWAN: Thank you. EXAMINATION BY MR. COWAN MR. COWAN: Q. Good afternoon. A. Good afternoon. THE HEARING EXAMINER: Okay. We'll take a moment off the record while we get some water for the witness. (Recess taken from : to : p.m.) THE HEARING EXAMINER: Mr. Cowan. MR. COWAN: Thanks. Q. You ready? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. So you testified that you were a member of the Medical Cannabis Commission and a member of the ZAB. A. Yeah.