Student Name: Unit 4 THUCYDIDES AND THE PELOPONNESIAN WAR Due Date Reading Topic F 10/23 WW 39-44 Thucydides Burdens of Empire M 10/26 WW 45-55 Thucydides Mytilenian Debate T 10/27 WW 56-60 Thucydides War & Human Nature W 10/28 * WW 61-69 Thucydides Melian Dialogue F 10/30 WW 70-76 Plato Democratic Statesmanship T 11/3 NO HW Th 11/5 * PAPER # 4 DUE Option A Write a conventional analytical essay: In what ways and to what degree did Athens fall short of its ideals during the Peloponnesian War? Select two major Athenian ideals that Pericles promotes in his Funeral Oration in 430 and then show how actual Athenian conduct during the Peloponnesian War contradicts that lofty self-image. That is, discuss two significant instances of Athenian hypocrisy during the war. Option B: Write a Spartan Funeral Oration that conveys the major ideals and values of Spartan society. Use Pericles Funeral Oration as a model, but write from the perspective of a Spartan. And just as Pericles notes important contrasts between the two states that make Athens appear superior, you should note contrasts that make Sparta appear superior. You can include examples of Athenian hypocrisy in order to highlight Spartan honesty. Option C: Write a Speech to be delivered to the Athenian Assembly in the aftermath of the failure of the Sicilian Expedition. Review Athenian conduct during the war (where did the city go right or wrong?) and then propose a plan for the future. Continue fighting? Seek a negotiated peace? Explain your position.
Thucydides - The Burdens of Empire (WW 39-44) Due: Friday 10/23 Thucydides recreates Pericles speech in 429 BC after the Athenian people started to turn against the war and against Pericles decision to retreat behind the walls and fight at sea. Two military defeats on land and the outbreak of plague in the city have caused the Athenians to vote Pericles out of office. Pericles tries to win the people back and to renew enthusiasm for the war: He insists on protecting the interests of the city rather than of any individual. He asserts that he can see what ought to be done, that he loves the city, and that he is above the influence of money. He offers the Athenians the choice between submission with slavery or danger with the hope of survival. He calls on Athenians to endure hardship without complaint or discouragement. He calls the Athenian navy the basis of Athenian empire. He notes the superiority and confidence that results from control of the sea. He highlights the importance of maintaining the empire and the danger in loosening the tyranny over others. He laments the unpredictability of the plague, but calls on the Athenians to show the same toughness as of old. He urges the Athenians to bear the burden of envy that accompanies a great and glorious empire. Pericles convinces the Athenians to continue the war, but dies a horrible death from plague months later Passages: 1) I expected this outbreak of anger on your part against me, since I understand the reasons for it; and I have called an assembly with this object in view, to remind you of your previous resolutions and to put forward my case against you. (40) 2) My own opinion is that when the whole state is on the right course it is a better thing for each separate individual than when private interests are satisfied but the state as a whole is going downhill. (40) 3) You must remember that you are citizens of a great city and that you were brought up in a way of life suited to her greatness; you must therefore be willing to face the greatest disaster and be determined never to sacrifice the glory that is yours Each of you, therefore, must try to stifle his own particular sorrow as he joins with the rest in working for the safety of all. (41) 4) Remember, too, that freedom, if we preserve our freedom through our own efforts, will easily restore us to our old position; but to submit to the will of others means to lose even what we still have. You must not fall below the standard of your fathers, who not only won an empire by their own toil and sweat, without receiving it from others, but went on to keep it safe so that they could hand it down to you. And by the way, it is more of a disgrace to be robbed of what one has than to fail in some new undertaking. (42) 5) Then it is right and proper for you to support the imperial dignity of Athens. This is something in which you all take pride, and you cannot continue to enjoy the privileges unless you also shoulder the burdens of empire. And do not imagine that what we are fighting for is simply the question of freedom or slavery; there is also involved the loss of our empire and the dangers arising from the hatred which we have incurred in administering it. (42) 6) Your empire is now like a tyranny; it may have been wrong to take it; it is certainly dangerous to let it go. (42-43) 7) Nor should you be angry with me, you who came to the same conclusion as I did about the necessity for making war. Certainly the enemy have invaded our country and done as one might expect they would do, once you refused to give in to them; and then plague, something which we did not expect, fell upon us. In fact out of everything else this has been the only case of something happening which we did not anticipate. (43)
8) But it is right to endure with resignation what the gods send, and to face one s enemies with courage. This was the old Athenian way: do not let any act of yours prevent it from still being so. Remember too that the reason why Athens has the greatest name in the world is because she has never given in to adversity, but has spent more life and labor in warfare than any other state, thus winning the greatest power that has ever existed in history; such a power will be remembered by posterity. (43) 9) All who have taken it upon themselves to rule over others have incurred hatred and unpopularity for a time; but if one has a great aim to pursue, this burden of envy must be accepted, and it is wise to accept it. Hatred does not last for long; but the brilliance of the present is the glory of the future stored up for ever in the memory of man. It is for you to safeguard that future glory and to do nothing now that is dishonorable. (43) 10) Now, therefore, is the time to show your energy and to achieve both these objects. Do not send embassies to Sparta; do not give the impression that you are bowed down under your present sufferings! To face calamity with a mind as unclouded as may be, and quickly to react against it that in a city and in an individual is real strength. (44) Questions: What new challenge does Pericles face in giving this speech? How does Pericles description of the Athenian empire differ in this speech from his Funeral Oration? Are there any specific points on which Pericles contradicts his claims in the Funeral Oration? How do other cities now appear to view Athens? And how do many Athenians now appear to view themselves? And how do they now view Pericles? How much responsibility does Pericles take for the current state of affairs? What does he want Athenians to do in these new circumstances? Do you think Pericles speech is effective?
Thucydides - The Mytilenian Debate (WW 45-55) Due: Monday 10/26 Thucydides recreates the debate in Athens in 427 BC over how to deal with rebellious former allies in Mytilene: should Athens kill and enslave the rebels, or pardon them? The debate raises questions of morality versus expediency in foreign policy. Can a democracy rule an empire? Are the people wise and tough enough to do what needs to be done? Or should a democracy even try to run an empire? Does running an empire cause a democracy to lose its way? The initial decision in the Assembly was to kill all the Mytilenian men and to enslave the women and children. But there was a sudden change in feeling and renewal of debate the next day as the Athenian people considered reversing the order for execution. The speech of Cleon defends harsh punishment of the rebels by expressing: his concern that a democracy is incapable of ruling others; the danger that results from compassion and weakness; the importance of following the fixed laws; the danger in taking the advice of overly clever or corrupt speakers; the calculated aggression of Mytilene against Athens; that it is human nature to despise those who treat them well; that it is human natures is look up to those who make no concessions; that lenience will provoke future aggression; that Athens must either rule strictly or give up the empire; that Athenian self-interest demands harsh punishment. The speech of Diodotus urges leniency and calling off the execution by expressing: the danger in decisions made in haste and anger; the importance of free and open debate; that the question now is not the guilt of Mytilene but the self-interest of Athens; that the death penalty is not in fact a deterrent; that the condition of rebels becomes more desperate when denied the possibility of repentance; that Athens suffers when opponents have no choice but to fight to the death; the need to cultivate democratic allies in all Athenian subject states. Diodotus argument for pardoning many Mytilenians won in a close vote in the Assembly. The Athenians sent triremes out in a race to announce the new decision before the executions began. The news of reprieve reached Mytilene just moments before the executions begin. The new orders did not execute all of the men, but rather only 1,000 of them. Mytilene became a subject state of Athens. Passages: Cleon s Arguments for Harsh Punishment 1) CLEON: [W]hen you give way to your own feelings of compassion you are being guilty of a kind of weakness which is dangerous to you and which will not make [your subjects] love you any more. What you do not realize is that your empire is tyranny exercised over subjects who do not like it and who are always plotting against you; you will not make them obey you by injuring your own interests in order to do them a favor; your leadership depends on your superior strength and not on any goodwill of theirs. (46) 2) CLEON: And this is the very worst thing to pass measures and not abide by them. We should realize that a city is better off with bad laws, so long as they remain fixed, than with good laws that are constantly being altered. (46-47) 3) CLEON: Personally I can make allowances for those who revolt because they find your rule intolerable or because they have been forced into it by enemy action [But] to act as [the Mytilenians] have acted is
not what I should call a revolt (for people only revolt when they have been badly treated); it is a case of calculated aggression, of deliberately taking sides with our bitterest enemies in order to destroy us. (48) 4) CLEON: [I]t is a general rule of human nature that people despise those who treat them well and look up to those who make no concessions. Let [the Mytilenians] now therefore have the punishment that their crime deserves. (49) 5) CLEON: Now think of your allies. If you are going to give the same punishment to those who are forced to revolt by your enemies as those who do so of their own accord, can you not see that they will all revolt upon the slightest pretext, when success means freedom and failure brings no very dreadful consequences? (49) 6) CLEON: There was nothing involuntary about the harm [the Mytilenians] did us; they knew what they were about and they planned it all beforehand; and one only forgives actions that were not deliberate. (49) 7) CLEON: To feel pity, to be carried away by the pleasures of hearing a clever argument, to listen to the claims of decency are three things that are entirely against the interests of an imperial power. Do not be guilty of them. As for compassion, it is proper to feel it in the case of people who are like ourselves and who will pity us in their turn, not in the case of those who, so far from having the same feelings toward us, must always and inevitably be our enemies. (49) 8) CLEON: Let me sum the whole thing up. I say that, if you follow my advice, you will be doing the right thing as far as Mytilene is concerned and at the same time will be acting in your own interests; if you decide differently, you will not win them over, but you will be passing judgment on yourselves. For if they were justified in revolting, you must be wrong in holding power. If, however, whatever the rights and wrongs of it may be, you propose to hold power all the same, then your interest demands that these too, rightly or wrongly, must be punished. The only alternative is to surrender your empire. (50) 9) CLEON: Now pay [the Mytlienians] back for [the revolt], and do not grow soft just at this present moment, forgetting meanwhile the danger hung over your heads then. Punish them as they deserve, and make an example of them to your other allies, plainly showing that revolt will be punished by death. (50) Diodotus Arguments for Leniency 10) DIODOTUS: Haste and anger are, to my mind, the two greatest obstacles to wise counsel haste, that usually goes with folly, anger, that is the mark of primitive and narrow minds. (50) 11) DIODOTUS: However, I have not come forward to speak about Mytilene in any spirit of contradiction or with any wish to accuse anyone. If we are sensible people, we shall see that the question is not so much whether they are guilty as whether we are making the right decision for ourselves. (53) 12) DIODOTUS: In my view our discussion concerns the future rather than the present. One of Cleon s chief points is that to inflict the death penalty will be useful to the future as a means of deterring other cities from revolt; but I, who am just as concerned as he with the future, am quite convinced that this is not so. (52) 13) DIODOTUS: Cities and individuals alike, all are by nature disposed to do wrong, and there is no law that will prevent it, as is shown by the fact that men have tried every kind of punishment, constantly adding to the list, in the attempt to find greater security from criminals. (52) 14) DIODOTUS: Yet even with this, the laws are still broken. Either, therefore, we must discover some fear more potent than the fear of death, or we must admit that here certainly we have not got an adequate deterrent. So long as poverty forces men to be bold, so long as the insolence and pride of wealth nourish their ambitions, so long will their impulses drive them into danger. Hope and desire cause the greatest calamities, invisible factors, but more powerful than the terrors that are obvious to our eyes. Then too,
the idea that fortune will be on one s side plays as big a part as anything else in creating a mood of overconfidence and so she tempts men to run risks for which they are inadequately prepared. (53) 15) DIODOTUS: In a word it is impossible for human nature, when once seriously set upon a certain course, to be prevented from following that course by the force of law or any other means of intimidation whatever. (53) 16) DIODOTUS: Consider this now: at the moment, if a city has revolted and realizes that the revolt cannot succeed, it will come to terms while it is still capable of paying a [fine] and continuing to pay tribute afterwards. But if Cleon s method is adopted, can you not see that every city will not only make much more careful preparations for revolt, but will also hold out against siege to the very end, since to surrender early or late means just the same thing? (53) 17) DIODOTUS: [W]e should see that the proper basis of our security is in good administration rather than fear of legal penalties [T]he right way to deal with free people is this not to inflict tremendous punishments on them after they have revolted, but to take tremendous care of them before this point is reached, to prevent them even contemplating the idea of revolt, and, if we do have to use force with them, to hold as few as possible of them responsible. (54) 18) DIODOTUS: Consider what a mistake you would be making on this very point, if you took Cleon s advice [I]f you destroy the democratic party at Mytilene, who never took any hand in the revolt and who, as soon as they got arms, voluntarily gave up the city to you, you will first of all be guilty of killing those who have helped you, and secondly, you will be doing exactly what the reactionary classes want most. (54) 19) DIODOTUS: In fact, however, even if [the democrats at Mytilene] were guilty, you should pretend that they were not, in order to keep on your side the one element that is not opposed to you. It is far more useful to us, I think, in preserving our empire, that we should voluntarily put up with injustice than we should that we should justly put to death the wrong people. (54) The Conclusion: In a narrow vote, the Athenian assembly supported the proposal of Diodotus to spare the lives of the innocent. Word reached Mytilene just moments before the scheduled execution. On the motion of Cleon, however, 1,000 men directly involved in the revolt were put to death. Athens took over Mytilene as a subject state and required the payment of tribute. Questions: Why would the Athenian Assembly have felt torn over its treatment of the rebels in Mytilene? Do you agree that a city (or a school or a dorm) is better off with bad laws that remain fixed than with good laws that are always changing? Why does Cleon believe that harsh punishment makes Athens safer? What does he observe about human nature? Why does Diodotus value continued debate?
Why is leniency in the best interest of Athens? Do you believe that the death penalty works effectively to deter crimes or rebellions? What do we learn about the character of Athens from this debate?
Due: Tuesday 10/27 WW 39-44 Thucydides - The Effects of War on Human Nature (WW 39-44) Thucydides gives an account of the civil war in Corcyra between democrats and aristocrats in 427 BC; this was one of many bloody disputes unleashed during the broader conflict between Athens and Sparta. Thucydides makes many sharp observations about human nature in times of war. The democrats of Corcyra massacred many aristocrats while the Athenian navy provided cover. The democrats killed aristocrats because of either personal hatred or debt, and committed many atrocities. Many similar horrors spread throughout Greece whenever one side thought it had help from Athens or Sparta. According to Thucydides: War is a stern teacher and allows people to act with savagery. Words change their meanings and morality is forgotten as people put the interests of themselves and their party first. Love of power, operating through greed and personal ambition, causes evils. Violent fanaticism makes the evils worse. No room is left for moderation between competing parties. Greek character deteriorates as society divides between ideologically hostile camps. Human nature reveals its true colors during war, and is incapable of restraining passions. Men repeal the general laws of humanity when seeking revenge. Passages: 1) The [democrats on Corcyra] continued to massacre those of their own citizens whom they considered to be their enemies. Their victims were accused of conspiring to overthrow the democracy, but in fact men were often killed on grounds of personal hatred or else by their debtors because of the money they owed. They were put to death in every shape and form. And, as usually happens in such situations, people went to every extreme and beyond. There were fathers who killed their sons; men were dragged from the temples or butchered on the very altars; some were actually walled up in the temple of Dionysus and died there. (57) 2) [I]n time of war, when each party could always count upon an alliance which would do harm to its opponents and at the same time strengthen its own position, it became a natural thing to call in help from outside. In the various cities these revolutions were the cause of many calamities as happens and always will happen while human nature it what it is. (57) 3) In times of peace and prosperity cities and individuals alike follow higher standards But war is a stern teacher; in depriving them of the power of easily satisfying their daily wants, it brings most people s minds down to the level of their actual circumstances. (57) 4) To fit in with the change of events, words, too, had to change their meaning. What used to be described as a thoughtless act of aggression was now regarded as the courage one would expect to find in a party member; To think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; Any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise one s unmanly character; Ability to understand a question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action; Fanatical enthusiasm was the mark of a real man; To plot against an enemy behind his back was perfectly legitimate self-defense. In short, it was equally praiseworthy to get one s blow in first against someone who was going to do wrong, and to denounce someone who had no intention of doing any wrong at all. (58) 5) Love of power, operating though greed and through personal ambition, was the cause of all these evils. (59)
6) Leaders of parties had programs which appeared admirable on the one side political equality for the masses, on the other the safe and sound government of the aristocracy but in professing to serve the public interest, they were seeking to win the prizes for themselves. In their struggle for ascendancy, nothing was barred. (59) 7) As a result of these revolutions, there was a general deterioration of character throughout the Greek world Society had become divided into two ideologically hostile camps, and each side viewed the other with suspicion. (59) 8) As a rule those who were least remarkable for intelligence showed the greater powers of survival. Such people recognized their own deficiencies [and] boldly launched straight into action; while their opponents, overconfident in the belief that they would see what was happening in advance, and not thinking it necessary to seize by force what the could preserve by policy, were the more easily destroyed because they were off guard. (59) 9) [W]ith the ordinary conventions of civilized life thrown into confusion, human nature, always ready to offend even where laws exist, showed itself proudly in its true colors, as something incapable of controlling passion, insubordinate to the idea of justice, the enemy to anything superior to itself. (60) Questions: How did the broader war between Athens and Sparta contribute to civil wars in Corcyra and elsewhere? How do political opponents treat each other when they believe they have a free hand to do so? Does one side deserve more blame than the other for the atrocities that arise in war? Which words take on new meanings during times of war? What happens to concepts of morality and justice? How much faith does Thucydides show in human nature? Do you believe he is correct in his assessment?
Thucydides - The Melian Dialogue (WW 61-69) Due: Wednesday 10/28 (E) Thursday 10/29 (F) Thucydides recreates a debate between Athenians and the Spartan colony of Melos in 416 BC over whether Melos should submit to the greater power of Athens. The Situation: Athens planned to attack and subjugate the island of Melos, a colony of Sparta, but agreed first to debate the merits of peaceful surrender with the Melians. Melos, a colony of Sparta, had refused to join the Athenian empire like the other islanders, and at first remained neutral without helping either side; but afterwards, when the Athenians brought force to bear on them by laying waste their land, they became open enemies of Athens. In Thucydides recreation, the Athenians propose that each side put forth its arguments in a free exchange, but the Melians suspect that the Athenians will do whatever they want in the end. The Athenian envoys: acknowledge that they do not have right on their own side; assert that the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they have to accept argue that Melos can save itself from disaster by submitting, and Athens can profit as a result; reveal their concern about other islands that might revolt; declare the law of nature to rule whatever one can; deny that the Spartans will come to the aid of Melos; urge the Melians to look out for their own practical self-interest; proclaim the safe rule - to stand up to one s equals, to behave with deference to one s superiors, and to treat one s inferiors with moderation. The Melians: insist on justice and fair play; ask for neutrality and friendship rather than slavery and submission; argue that Athens will make enemies of all other neutrals if it enslaves Melos; refuse to show cowardice and accept slavery; maintain the hope for good fortune and trust in the support of the gods; decide to rely on the aid of the Spartans. The Melians ultimately refuse to submit. After two summers of siege operations, the Athenians seize the city, execute the men, and sell the women and children as slaves. Passages: 1) MELIANS: No on can object to each of us putting forward our own views in a calm atmosphere. That is perfectly reasonable. What is scarcely consistent with such a proposal is the present threat, indeed the certainty of your making war upon us. We see that you have come prepared to judge the argument yourselves, and that the likely end of it will be either war, if we prove that we are in the right, and so refuse to surrender, or else slavery. (62) 2) ATHENIANS: The standard of justice depends on the equality of power to compel, and in fact the strong do what they have the power to do and the weak accept what they have to accept. (63) 3) MELIANS: In the case of all who fall into danger there should be such a thing as fair play and just dealing, and such people should be allowed to use and profit by arguments that fall short of mathematical accuracy. (63) 4) MELIANS: And how could it be just as good for us to be the slaves as for you to be the masters? ATHENIANS: You, by giving in, would save yourselves from disaster, and we, by not destroying you, would be able to profit from you.
MELIANS: So you would not agree to our being neutral, friends instead of enemies, but allies of neither side? ATHENIANS: No, because it is not so much your hostility that injures us; it is rather the case that, if we were on friendly terms with you, our subjects would regard that as a sign of weakness in us, whereas your hatred is evidence of our power. (64) 5) MELIANS: We who are still free would how ourselves great cowards and weaklings if we failed to face everything that comes rather than submit to slavery. ATHENIANS: No, not if you are sensible. This is no fair fight, with honor on one side and shame on the other. It is rather a question of saving your lives and not resisting those who are too strong for you. (64-65) 6) MELIANS: It is difficult for us to oppose your power and fortune, unless the terms be equal. Nevertheless we trust that the gods will give us fortune as good as yours, because we are standing for what is right against what it wrong (65) 7) ATHENIANS: Our aims and our actions are perfectly consistent with the beliefs that men hold about the gods and with the principles which govern their own conduct. Our opinion of the gods and our knowledge of men lead us to conclude that that it is a general and necessary law of nature to rule whatever one can. (65) 8) ATHENIANS: Do not be led astray by a false sense of honor a thing which often brings men to ruin when they are faced with an obvious danger that somehow affects their pride. (67) 9) ATHENIANS: You will see that there is nothing disgraceful in giving way to the greatest city in Hellas, when she is offering you such reasonable terms alliance on a tribute paying basis and liberty to enjoy your own property. (67) 10) ATHENIANS: This is the safe rule to stand up to one s equals, to behave with deference towards one s superiors, and to treat one s inferiors with moderation. (67) The Conclusion: The Melians refused to surrender to the Athenian ambassadors. After failing to receive sufficient help from the Spartans, the Melians found themselves besieged by the Athenians. At last necessity Melians forced the Melians to surrender unconditionally. The Athenians put to death all men of military age and sold the women and children as slaves. Questions: Why do the Athenians not make an argument about right or wrong? What definition of justice do the Athenians now set forth? Why is it so important to the Athenians to punish Melos? What do they fear would happen if they do not? How does this argument compare with what Pericles asserted in his Funeral Oration? How does this argument compare with what Pericles asserted in his speech on the Burdens of Empire?
How would the Athenians of Themistocles day have responded to these arguments had they come from the Persian king? How have Athenian attitudes changed as the city has grown in power? Which side do you believe gets the better of this argument? And which side got the better of the military conflict? Does might make right?
Due: Friday 10/30 WW 70-76 Plato The Failure of Democratic Statesmanship [from Gorgias] (WW 70-76) Plato (in the voice of Socrates) criticizes Athenian democracy and the tricks politicians use to manipulate the people. Socrates argues that four of Athens greatest statesmen Pericles, Cimon, Miltiades, and Themistocles were bad influences on Athenian democracy because they failed to improve the souls of Athenian citizens. Passages: 1) Socrates: Surely your sole concern as a public man will be to make us who are citizens as good as possible. Have we not already agreed more than once that that is the duty of a statesman? (71) 2) Socrates: People say that Pericles made the Athenians lazy and cowardly and garrulous and covetous by his introduction of the system of payment for services to the state. (71-72) 3) Socrates: Yet Pericles made his charges fiercer than he found them, and what is more, fiercer towards himself, which is the last thing he would have wished. (72) 4) Socrates: But tell me now about Cimon. Did not the people ostracize in order that they might not hear his voice for ten years? And they did the same to Themistocles, and punished him with exile besides. As for Miltiades of Marathon, they condemned him to be thrown into the pit appointed for criminals Yet if these people had been good men, as you assert, they would have never met such fates. (73) 5) Socrates: [The sole duty of a good citizen ] is a matter of diverting men s desires into a new channel instead of allowing them a free course, or of driving one s fellows by persuasion or constraint to the adoption of measures designed for their improvement. (73) 6) Socrates: My man, you know nothing at all about physical training. The people you mention [bakers and cooks] are mere servants and caterers to the desires, devoid of any sound or true knowledge of their nature; they are the sort of people who may well win men s praise by cramming and fattening their bodies, and afterwards cause them to lose even the flesh they had; and the victims in their ignorance, instead of holding the purveyors of their feasts responsible for their ailments and loss of weight, will throw the blame on whoever happens to be their associates and advisers at a considerably later date, when their [overeating] in defiance of the laws of health brings sickness in its train [T]hey continue aloud in their praises of those who are the real authors of their troubles (74-75) 7) Socrates: You now, Callicles, are behaving in just the same way as these gluttons; you are extolling men who have regaled the Athenians by giving them their full of what they desired, and people say that they have made Athens great; what they do not perceive is that through the efforts of these earlier statesman it is bloated and rotten to the core. They have glutted the state with harbors and dockyards and walls and tribute and rubbish of that sort, and when the inevitable fit of weakness [comes] the citizens will hold their current advisers responsible, and go on extolling Themistocles and Cimon and Pericles, the real authors of their woes. (75) Questions: What have Socrates and Callicles already agreed is the duty of a statesman? According to Socrates, what did Pericles do to make the Athenians lazy and cowardly?
According to Socrates, were the Athenian people better or worse at the end of Pericles career? What evidence does he give? And how does he argue that Cimon, Themistocles and Miltiades were not good statesmen either? What criticism does Socrates offer of politicians past and present? In what ways are most democratic politicians like bakers and cooks? And what impact do they have on the true health of the people? To whom do you suppose Socrates wants the people to listen instead?