East meets West in academic retreat at Egypt s Red Sea

East meets West in academic retreat at Egypt s Red Sea Students from Islamic Al-Azhar University and Netherlands-Flemish Institute in Cairo enter the dialogue under audience of the Dutch Ministry of Foreign Affairs We are here to connect, says Alaa, medicine student at the Al-Azhar University in Cairo. They learn how we think and we learn how they think. Her words perfectly capture the idea behind of the academic retreat with students from the Al-Azhar University and the Netherlands-Flemish Institute in Cairo (NVIC), held in Egypt s Red Sea resort Ain Sokhna from 16-18 November. Throughout two and a half days 11 Al-Azhar students, and 11 NVIC students held dialogues on society related topics in order to gain a better understanding of each other s beliefs and points of view. The dialogues were organised in four sessions, respectively on the representation of East and West in the media; the importance of diversity in society; the role of women in society; and expectations of the future. The Azhar representation included one student from Nigeria, and counted nine male and two female students. The NVIC students are studying at Dutch universities. The group consisted of eight female and three male, some of them of dual Dutch -Egyptian, -Iraki, and -Irani nationalities. The NVIC students had various religious beliefs, from atheism to christianity, and Islam. During the first dinner upon arrival at the hotel some cautious mixing of the group took place, with Azhar students joining the tables where NVICs were sitting. Afterwards everyone came together for the weekend s opening by Baukje Dijkstra Public Diplomacy Hub at the Netherlands Embassy, NVIC director Dr Rudolf de Jong and Al-Azhar s Dr Said Faris. Open discussions is what we are here for, Rudolf de Jong said. Connecting cultures Knowing each other better. Connecting cultures and experiences. Building friendships. Sharing information and ideas. These were some of the expectations for the weekend the students expressed during the opening. The next morning started with an introduction about Al-Azhar and the NVIC, followed by the Friday afternoon prayer (for the non-muslims a chill hour at the beach). The NVIC was established in Cairo s Zamalek neighbourhood in 1971 and serves as an academic institution operating mainly in the fields of Arabic language, Oriental and Islamic studies, Egyptology, Archaeology and Papyrology. The NVIC is supported by eight Dutch and Flemish universities. Besides courses in Arabic it provides courses in Dutch and facilitates cultural activities and an open library. The Al-Azhar mosque was founded late 10 th century by the Fatamids as a centre for Islamic teachings, in order to preserve Islamic thought during times of unrest and decline of the Abassid Caliphate. It is

considered one of the first universities in the world. Al-Azhar grew to become the most prominent authority of Sunni Islamic teaching, and plays a central role in Sunni Islam up to the present day. In the 20 th century Al-Azhar was re-established as an official university, and non-religious faculties such as medicine and engineering were added to it. Dr Ibrahim Attia stressed in his introduction about Al-Azhar that the institute stands for a moderate approach, adding that Islam promotes coexistence, peace and tolerance. He described Al-Azhar s role as to clear misconceptions about religion. One s Islamic knowledge is not complete before he comes to Al-Azhar, he said. From cautious dialogue to vivid discussion The first session of the weekend was led by Dr Talaat Farouq from Al-Azhar. He first asked all participants to change seats, to get out of *their+ comfort zone. The students discussed the representation of the East in Western media and the other way around; they dove into how media influence perspectives. The role of cinema in particular was also highlighted, with classic examples of orientalism in movies such as: Aladdin and Rules of Engagement plus a discussion of the more recent movie American Sniper. Also the stereotyping of Jews in an Egyptian film as Hamam in Amsterdam was cited. To remain silent and indifferent, is the greatest sin of all, Dr Talaat said in conclusion of the session. Though interesting, overall it was a rather tame session, the students clearly still had to get used to the setting and warm up for vivid discussion. After lunch Dr Faris led a session about diversity in society. Diversity is a miracle of creation, he cited the Quran. The session witnessed somewhat stronger arguments. For instance remarks from the Azharis that there is religious diversity in Egypt, a notion which sparked some protest from the NVIC side pointing out that there are only three religions recognised in Egypt. Also when an Azhar student asked how to deal with unacceptable diversity, giving an example of Christians trying to convert Muslims in Egypt, he received some strong criticism for applying double standards. According to some, the moderator at times jumped a bit too easy over such controversial points, not allowing a true discussion to emerge and moving to a next subject. On the other hand, the Dutch society was critically assessed as well. Don t mix diversity with tolerance, a Dutch student said. Holland is a diverse country, but not always tolerant. Acceptance of newcomers in the Netherlands depends from where you come, another student noted.

It was at one point suggested that a homogenous society would be easier to rule and better to live in and hence perhaps preferable over a more diverse society. This statement proved not easily countered, even though most of the group had expressed his or her preference for a more diverse society. One student commented: Diversity is a fact of life, and efforts to limit it lead irrevocably to conflict. So it s better to accept and embrace it. If we don t deal with diversity, it polarises. After dinner, which took place in a atmospheric site along the beach of the Red Sea, the group sat down for a final dialogue to elaborate on a notion that had come up earlier during the day: Religion is not important in the Netherlands. Several of the Dutch participants noted that religion is not necessarily practised less in the Netherlands than in Egypt, but differently, in a more individual, personal way. On the other hand, it was said that the Netherlands undoubtedly is a very secular society in which atheism is abundant, and in which, for instance, less and less people go to church. Dr Ibrahim said: This is the first time to sit face to face with Dutch, and it is not enough. Traveling in other cultures is not always easy, it requires to stay open and be brave, Baukje Dijkstra added. Also, there was a discussion about whether one could be openly atheist in Egypt. An Azhar student said that one has the free choice to follow his own beliefs in Egypt, but an Azhari professor responded that if a Muslim would abandon his faith, this would lead to more than just criticism (it is forbidden in Egypt and in Islamic Sharia). Dr Said Faris, a professor of Islamic Law, pointed out a concept in Sharia that makes it possible to amend certain parts of the Islamic law when there is consensus among scholars. Some Azharis saw atheism in the Netherlands as a proof of a more material life, but not everyone agreed. One Dutch student said: Religion in the Netherlands is not part of the public discourse, but people practice religion in their own way. Pink or blue the role of women in society During the evening Azharis and NVICs enjoyed some snooker play and further discussions; the next morning gender and feminism was topping the agenda. Alaa, one of the two female Azhar students, was looking forward to the session. It s topics that people usually don t talk about, that people don t want to talk about. Now we discuss them openly. It s fun! The gender session, led by Jacinthe Assaad started with determining several issues that women face all over the globe, such as political underrepresentation, economic dependency, less access to education.

Then we moved into a deeper understanding of gender, discussing the difference between men and women. Physical biology aside, are the differences natural or cultural? The case study used in the session to address this topic was a child going into a toyshop choosing either typical girl (pink) or boy (blue) toys. It was argued that without preconception about what is suitable for a girl or a boy the child would have not preference, hence the gender difference is not natural. At birth we all are a blank sheet, one student said. Some of the male Azhar students were not convinced. If there were complete freedom of choice without preconceived ideas, preferences would still differ, they argued. What women prefer is different from what men prefer, one student said. Alaa responded: It s personal, not gender. Certain things we learn to do as women. A clear division in the group on the topic of natural or cultural differences emerged between the male Azhar students on the one side, and the NVIC students plus the female Azhar students on the other. One Azhar student argued: It s a universal fact that certain jobs are not appropriate for women, giving the example of a soldier. Later, one said: Physical ability *of women+ is different, God created us this way. In response, the moderator explained the difference between rejecting a woman for a job or position because she s a woman, or because she doesn t meet the (physical) criteria. A student from the NVIC gave an example that seemed to resound in the group. She recalled her sister making it into the army. It took her more effort than the average man, but she passed all the physical tests amply. The discussion moved into the origin of gender differences. If gender is cultural and a social construct, where does it come from and wouldn t there be a reason it has emerged in its particular shape? Again Alaa had her response ready: the habituation, and acceptability differs per society. In Scotland men wear a type of short skirt, in Egypt men wear a galabiya that would be considered a dress in the West. The session concluded with suggestions on how to narrow down the gender gap. There was discussion on the impact of laws protecting women rights versus social convention. For instance, in Egypt women have won the legal right to divorce, but this is still not socially acceptable. Raising awareness as a way to improve gender equality was also mentioned, but Alaa responded: We do have awareness campaigns, but no one listens. Jacinthe said: We need awareness that more women rights doesn t mean making life miserable for men. After the session some Azharis felt they didn t really have the space to openly express their preference for a society in which women primarily fulfil the role as wives and caretaker of children. However, Azhar student Mohamed said: I didn t expect to benefit so much from the session. We discuss this *gender roles+ in class, but now the counterpart is actually present in the discussion. Visions for the future

For the next and final session all students were asked to write two words on two separate papers that come to mind when thinking about the future. Then everyone laid down his or her two papers on the ground explaining the choice of words. The papers were clustered by theme. One cluster consisted of career-related topics, as job security and graduation. Another theme was technology, mentioning surveillance and artificial intelligence. Another cluster had a darker character, featuring words as war, chaos and polarisation. The largest cluster showed a more positive view on the future, including terms as diversity, tolerance, acceptance, equality, truthfulness and education. What followed was an exchange of thought on future perspective, focussing on the importance of education, the power of the individual to change the world, the means through which one can achieve his or her ambitions, and the role of power structures and privileges. If I change one person s life I change the world, one student said. We live in a reality that was the dream of the last generation, one Azhari said. If we dare to dream today, the next generation will have it better. Also, a discussion took place on whether social media as Twitter and Facebook are connecting and bringing people together, or instead fuelling polarisation. The session also debated the responsibility of Al-Azhar graduates and other religious leaders towards society. Al-Azhar imams are also social leaders, Dr Faris said. In his community an Imam can create chaos, or peace and coexistence. Hence, he stressed the importance Al-Azhar students receive enough training before they can fulfil their role in society. He further stated in order to change people for the better, one should encourage the positive first, before fighting the negative. Dr Talaat said in a final remark: Building a better society starts with an idea, then a plan to achieve this idea, and then realizing the plan. New friends cross cutting beliefs After the last session and final lunch, the weekend was closed. Aside the sometimes cautious, sometimes fruitful dialogues, the students could look back on an extremely fun weekend, in which indeed many new connections were made. An Azhari student said: The weekend gave the possibility to know about new people. One Azhari participant described his experience in a message to the organisation as follows: Words can t precisely describe my excitement towards this event. It is unusual for me to have such a number of friends in such a very short time. Each one there was enough to make my day. By the way, when I talk about you I use the term friends. This was an unforgettable experience. These sessions along with the side talks have dramatically changed my perspective towards the other and contributed to how I think to some extent. The benefits I received were much more than what I had expected. This event had an impact on my personality; I have become more passionate to know and discover the other. Travelling has become one of my favorite hobbies. Thank you so much.

Moreover, all participants joined in a whatsapp group in which the first plans for a reunion have already been made. Facebook has seen a particular spike in friend requests from traditional Muslim Al-Azhar students to progressive West-European NVIC students and vice versa, all cross cutting faiths, beliefs, gender and culture. You cannot imagine the positive feedback I got from the Azhari participants, Dr Faris said after the event. I think the thought exchange will leave its impact on the students for some time in the future.