Date: November 28, 2015 Interviewee: Marco Albarran Interviewer: Danette Turner Danette Turner: All right the date is Saturday, November 28th, 2015. We are here at the Red Mountain Mesa Library Branch located at 635 North Power Road in Mesa, Arizona. My name is Danette Turner and we are here with local Chicano artist Marco Albarran. Thank you for being here with us. Marco Albarran: Thank you for inviting me. Danette: And let s begin with just a little bit of your background where you were born and raised. Marco: I was born actually in a small town a border town on the other side of Yuma called San Luis, Rio Colorado, Sonora in Mexico. And I was the first one of the eight members in my family that survived that was born in Sonora. The rest of my family we all came from the state of Guanajuato, Central Mexico. Danette: And how did your family come to the United States? Marco: My father started coming to the United States through the Bracero Program. And he was actually invited by one of my uncles which came over here with my grandfather before prior to the revolution in Mexico and worked in some you know some of the vans some of the even the car industry when it was first started in Detroit. When the first when the revolution started in Mexico they went back to fight over there. And then after that you know they, when the war was kind of started in Europe that s when the Bracero Program kind of almost at the end started. And that s where my dad started to get involved into the reserve program and come over here several times and then go back and eventually brought the whole entire family to the Sonoran border area. And so from there we all got our green cards per se because of the program. Danette: Now your family spent some time in Yuma? Marco: Yeah that s where my mom lives right now actually but we moved to Yuma in the 70 s. And then but it was I mean it s it was there on the border so it was back and forth in terms of, since from the beginning. But they actually got a house and moved (3:00) to Yuma in the 70 s. Danette: So would you say you kind of grew up in that area? 1
Marco: Yes I had that quite pleasure and pleasant experience of living on the border and going through many of the dynamics that usually happen on the border towns. And I got bicultural experiences from both from both countries living in going to school in Mexico and then going to school here and experiencing both type of cultures and going through that cultural change basically. Danette: So I noticed that you attended school at ASU did you go straight to college after high school? Marco: No I went from high school to a community college, Arizona Western College over there in Yuma. And because I took many of the drafting classes in high school I started taking drafting classes in the community college. And eventually me and two other friends which I met at two different high schools decided to come to and apply to ASU in the College of Architecture. And we were accepted in the College of Architecture and went through that program and then changed to Construction Civil Engineering after that. Danette: So what led you to art? Marco: Well I d been doing you know sketches and art when you re a kid you start working and doing your own thing. But the it was something in there since I was a kid that kind of was inside me I guess that prompt me to create. And after I finish you know with my degrees in ASU I work in different fields. But there was something always there that kind of got me going in the arts and literature as well. And first experience I had coming to ASU was that I got into a theater group. And it didn t last that long after a year, year and a half I actually started helping the theater with management and public relations trying to get performances for them in other places. But yeah art was something that was put in me for quite a long time. Danette: And when did you decide to act on those impulses? Marco: Well in 2001 actually cause I d been (6:00) doing you know working and doing as a part time kind of thing. But in 2001 I was traveling to New York and Washington, DC at the same time when the 9/11 happened. The same week basically. And fortunately, I mean fortunately, I was not traveling those - during that day but it was I was gonna be going over there late in that same week. And then of course they cancelled all the plane traveling and everything, so I had to postpone my flights to December. But from September through December a lot of things came into my mind. And I think that happened to many people where they kind of assessed themselves and figured okay what s important in this life? And at that time I was working as a State Director for the American Cancer Society in government relations. And basically passing some of those tobacco laws and ordinances within the cities. But that got me kinda thinking and I decided that art was something that I really, really enjoyed and I made me happy basically. And so that s I quit my job in December and I didn t I didn t have another job 2
I was just thinking okay, I m gonna quit my job and do something related to the arts. And when that happened I make a commitment to myself that anything that - that any job that I will get it had to be related to the arts or a creative profession. And then that s when I started getting involved and working with museums and galleries. And I created also my own organization. Danette: So that was quite a jump because your degree was a Bachelor of Arts in Liberal Arts and Political Science with an emphasis on Latin American studies from ASU. Marco: But at the same time I was going for that degree I was also studying engineering. Danette: Which also incorporates a lot of elements of art. Marco: Um hum. Danette: So you mentioned that you started your own organization. Would you like to talk a little bit about that and fill us in? Marco: Well I started because back in the 93 I started a magazine called (inaudible) and it was a multi-cultural magazine that I setup to basically promote some of the writers and artists and tell the story about a positive story about Chicano history here in the United States compared to that time where people were hearing the news about mostly negative. So I was, (9:00) in my mind, I was trying to reflect something more positive. So I started publishing from short stories to poetry to promoting artists to and open it up basically those opportunities to other artists. And I started local eventually I got a state distributer that was interested in doing that and pretty soon I got people from different community college and universities interested in purchasing subscriptions. Eventually, I had an international distributer and I was distributing to England and France and Japan and Australia and Germany and Latin America, Canada, here in the US, so it became international you know. And through that it brought different other writers, other artists, other ways of basically getting people to know each other. And I met many others you know. And this all this prior to emails and prior, I mean prior to how popular digital world was. So everything was in print and kind of started the whole thing of me trying to create something bigger than just myself basically. In terms of promoting other artists. But of course you know that s something that I think started way back through that peer group. Danette: That s interesting. And so you said that 2000 was about the time you phased out the magazine and (inaudible). Marco: Well when I decided to no yeah in 2000 I phased out the magazine because of the changes that were going on at that time through the digital implementation and getting wider audiences more than the print. And so many other smaller publications actually ceased to exist because of that. Many of the bigger publications changed as you 3
know through this time and what we know as present and they not very very strong as they used to. So it changed completely how people were reading their material you know...so. Danette: So now you re into the arts and encouraging the arts both yourself and in the community. You mentioned earlier that you considered yourself a Mexican artist? Marco: Well when... Danette: That this is going to evolve over time? Marco: Right. I mean I was born in Mexico (12:00) and from early days when I went over there in elementary the schools make sure that the that you are know the history that you know the national fervor that was going on in Mexico that s still going on in terms of making sure that you were a nationalist Mexican. So that is in your veins all the time you know. And then after a while you you know when I first came here to United States I got to experience some of the discrimination that was going on at that time here. And that prompt me to learn more about the history of Chicano history and Latin American history. And then eventually it start it got me to learn about the Japanese experience the Chinese experience. You know and that s something that came from the experiences I had from discrimination. You know instead of me going to something negative it got me into think of something positive from this and trying to teach that. And that time for me was okay how can I teach this to future generations you know? Danette: Okay. Well you did mention that you wanted to one of your goals was to reflect something positive about Chicano and of course that term being considered derogatory at one point by many people and so do you have an opinion or or some kind of thought with regards to... Marco: Well yeah back then when I went to ASU as a student I did work for community organizations a lot. I went in community a lot. And I got a sense of that kind of experiences for some families in terms of what their were their experiences back in the 40 s or 30 s and how things changed in perspectives in terms of what they wanted to be called. And many of those families even told me you know before our grandparents they wanted to be called Mexican. And then eventually evolve into you know Mexican American and Chicano. And in the 80 s when I first was at the university Hispanic was something new. It was starting to get more national attention. And people were rejecting that word Hispanic you know compared to Latino or other terms. But I interviewed many of the families actually with, was doing oral histories, and some or communities and I interviewed some of the families. And they explained to me their what they like or didn t like about Chicano or Mexican American or (15:00) any of those terms. But for me it was more Chicano was more of the connection that the word had to the indigenous part of my background. And that really opened up a whole new 4
perspective on myself in terms of how eventually - made a play in how I make the art that I do right now you know. And we have to remember that many of the artists that come from Mexico or other parts in Latin America they have a very strong influence from European art. And the way they express and the way they even do their colors and they work in mediums is very very, and the way I see it, is very European influence, heavy influence. So many of the Chicano actually artists in here are trying to do something that reflects more of the core of what was the indigenous part of that communication was that was going on. And I think that s still very strong right now. And that s how I play in terms of what I create and how it transform from an ancient knowledge to a contemporary knowledge. Danette: That s very interesting. And now you were mentioning earlier a tie into the Calavera and skull is part of the symbolism in that and also that your art was had deep religious undertones to it. Can you take a little time and explain that for me basically. Marco: Right. Well I mean learning from going through school in terms of not only the political parts of it was also the cultural and the and the difference that was created within Latin America and Mexico specifically. And how people were view and what their background was. Let s say if you were a mix of this a mix of that you were more considered to be this or that. So they create all this kind of cast systems. Danette: Right. Marco: From that cast systems then they became privileges. And from those privileges became what were you going to be doing or do for the rest of your generations you know. Well one of the things that I did was how can I break, if I m gonna be an artist how can I break from that perspective of creating something that was very, images that were very European to images that reflect that more deeper background of you know some of my family. (18:00). I have family members that are full Indian native Indian from Mexico. So those are the things that kind of I think and it those are the things that kind of play within the Chicano culture is what is it that binds us that gets us closer to that type of roots within Mexico you know. So I started creating some of the art that reflected symbolism, that reflected part of the culture, that reflected ceremonies, that reflected sometimes the mixture of what happened during the conquista in Mexico. But primarily I was trying to create something that was preconquest you know. And eventually you have work into contemporary ways of doing the same kind of plays in the symbolisms of pre-columbian and to what we consider today more contemporary. But in reality many of the symbolisms are Asian you know. But people see us in more contemporary - it s just a way of how you and what you use to create you know. So. Danette: Your works are unique too. I ve heard the term repurposed and green. So could you explain... 5
Marco: Yeah I was doing actually other repurposing green before it got very popular. But I think all this is started because you know growing up poor and I as a kid I didn t have the privileges of having toys and you know that kids have right now in abundance over here. Over there I had to create my own toys. I created toys with blocks of wood and pieces of tabs of water or soda bottle caps. And whatever was there, Carnation small cans, and whatever was there to create my own little toys. You know so from that time I started to reuse things and it strangely got into how I m creating things right now you know by using anything almost that I find to incorporate into my art. Danette: And where do you look to find these things? Marco: Everywhere... Danette: Every. Marco: From second stores to things that I find on the streets to sometimes I m driving in an alley and I see something and create it into something else. Danette: I like it. Marco: And that s why I have a big old pickup cause then I can (21:00) just go and throw it in there and bring it home. Danette: What do you think is the most unusual thing you ve incorporated into your art? Marco: Oh. I m not sure, but everything is kind of unusual. Danette: Unique. Marco: But I m not sure exactly what I consider to be unusual for me is just something common to incorporate I don t see it very unusual. But I m probably gonna start incorporating more bones into my art skulls from animals or you know. Danette: That s great. Okay so you mentioned earlier that you did experience discrimination and that you had seen a negative bent more or less to Chicanos have you seen that change over time now especially through the medium of art? Marco: Right. Danette: And the promotion of it? Marco: You know it s I remember when I was first started creating and I said you know cause I first started to do actually some art that was a little bit different from what we sometimes call self-identity. There s artists that refuse to call themselves Chicanos, Latinos or anything like that because they don t want that to reflect on what they create. 6
Cause there was many many times in the in the past that only they call us when Dia los Muertos was coming up or Hispanic heritage month or you know. And I think some of the artists refused to be in that label and they don t want that label they want to create what they want to create. But because I come from a very social kind of activism within my experiences where you know what I experienced then it reflects a little bit of that. And that s very hard for me to stray away from that. And I ve tried in the past and it s and I m hoping that you know things change and everybody get along and we don t need to have those kind of things. But it seems to come back and come back in different times in different decades. And it s just seem like it s never going to disappear and so I just keep creating you know what I ve been creating for all those years. And but I do it in not as direct as I used to I do it more as a cultural now. Danette: Okay. Marco: And through what I you know I was talking a little bit before in terms of the pre- Columbian symbolisms as through that deep root cultural connection that we have (24:00) that I ve tried to educate people about. Cause they usually ask me about it and that s when I start talking about how we all in some way and form we are connected. Danette: Do you feel that you ve been able to change through your art just from the comments and feedback perceptions? Marco: You mean from people? Danette: From the public in general (inaudible). Marco: You know it s hard to know if there s been deeper changes. I mean I ve been involved in community I ve been going to schools talking to kids and not only through my art but my experiences. And years later I get sometimes I get somebody telling you know my name and it s one of those students that I went to the schools before and they remember little things here and there and it makes changes you know. I got students that I d helped when they were they were dropout students and later on they were getting their masters degrees you know. And they and they remember you know. So through the magazine I was trying to promote positive cultural connections and because it was distributed in so many places and universities and stuff like that I sometimes I traveled to some cities and there were people there they came to me and they re like Marco because of your magazine I decided to go for a PhD and this and that or a masters or this is my thesis you know. Or I one time went to Porto Rico and talked to some, a couple universities there and I talk about how it was important to reconnect back into the indigenous path. And at that time what s happening there was that they were actually finding some of those artifacts and breaking them. Because there was a, sometimes there was a disdain or disconnection of their indigenous paths within some of those parts that and they were kind of ashamed of it. But you know, through that presentations that I did then I got feedback back from them said you know we started 7
this organization to save some of those things. And now they re, I mean they re very very prominent in terms of saving their pasts and. But I cannot say it was because of my presentation but it was a conscience... Danette: Contribution. Marco: Right. You know so... Danette: (Inaudible). Marco: Little things here and there. Sometime you do and you make people smile. And that s one thing that I like sometimes in creating my pieces is that because I create two different facets in my art one is, which I don t (27:00) participate too much, but in some markets. In the markets I usually create art that are gonna make people smile you know. And then my other art that I created for the galleries art they re a little bit darker but it has a deeper meaning a deeper message and you have to think about it. Cause it has different layers of cultural layers that if you don t know all the history if you don t know the culture you re gonna get lost. But that s the challenge you know. So those are the things that I kinda and of course you touch with art it s a very universal thing that you touch people in so many ways. Danette: That s true. So let s talk a little bit about your experience as far as founding organizations. I know that you have your fingers in many pies or you wear many hats. Let s start with your initial organization that we began with and walk us through the evolution of these different things and what led you to where you are today. Marco: Well when I was young, kid basically, I used to go and work with my dad in the fields picking lemons and oranges. And eventually graduated to picking cantaloupes and watermelons and all kinds of things like that. But there... Danette: Why is that a graduation? Marco: Well cause it was harder work. Danette: Okay. Marco: I was 12, 11 and a half 12, when I was introduced as a full, not just my dad s side worker by helping him, but I was actually a member of - like any other grown up. Danette: Like (inaudible). I know what you re saying. Marco: Yeah, working in the fields. And then by the second year, I think I was 12, I was already full-fledged worker competing with the other workers you know like the regular workers that d been doing that for all their life. So yeah for me that was a graduation. But at the same time, during that experiences I got to meet and got introduced into 8
Cesar Chavez United Farm Worker Organization. And got to see what he was doing and what his principles were and what his beliefs were. And through my college years actually I participated in many of that and got to meet him. Got to drive him here in the East Valley. I used to take him to Chandler and here Mesa and Gilbert (30:00). Danette: He s from the Yuma area too? Marco: He s from the Yuma area that s where he died actually. We were waiting for him the day he died... Danette: Oh. Marco: To come and you know, we got notice that he died, passes away, but yeah we were waiting for him when that happened. Danette: Wow. Marco: But through that gave me the sense of what an organization was and the values of having an organization and the responsibilities of having an organization. But I think when I got involved into that theater group and start helping them getting some performances and public relations basically that opened up a whole different thing for me. Then eventually I became president of another student organization the university and that opened up a whole different thing. But from those experiences you know I kinda got that little hook in terms of me wanting to do more than just me but to help other people regardless of what they were what kind of experiences they were going through in those you know through those decades or years. So I started different organizations or the publication or different things like that. But between when I was ending my publication and I was kinda going closer to 2000, I had this idea of creating a international organization for artists, visiting artists. And that prompt from a opportunity I had of hosting people from all over the world in my house that were coming. And these were people that were engineers that were scientist that were artists that were different professionals. And they wanted to, they wanted to have that kind of experience you know of going through United States and gaining some knowledge and then going out to the world and passing that knowledge to other people of the world. Example I had this architect that came over here to study Native American architecture because what he did was going through other parts of the world and teach other native people from the world on how to create architecture that reflected their history and their culture you know. And kind of trying to get them to be more self-sufficient. Same thing with I got this civil engineer, PhD civil engineer that was helping people around the world creating roads, dams, and canal systems and systems in small little towns you know. So that prompt me to create an organization here that actually helped some of those (33:00) traveling artists. And I went through you know trying to convince people and everything for a while. And after three years of trying it just didn t work out. A few years later when I quit my job and I decided to get involved more in the arts I noticed 9
that many of the artists Latino artists specifically were very limited in terms of opportunities open up for them. And that s when I decided to create an organization at that time I call it ACLAA, Arizona Coalition of Latin American Artists. And that lasted for a year and then I got this other downtown Phoenix architect that was interested in helping me. So he offered me a building. So I took the opportunity and that s when I changed that organizations name to Calaca. And Calaca, I just name it the by name - no there was no like ACLAA they had all this (inaudible) you know this... Danette: An acronym? Marco: Yeah. Calaca didn t have any of that it was basically just a name. Which means the skull you know. And the basis for having the skull in there is for me, it was partly because I wanted to have a stronger foundation which is - was the bone, the head bone that I thought that it was going to project be projected by into the future and have that kind of knowledge. I was thinking more of the brain and the and the head you know. And then you work on the other sides of the body parts later on. But from that I started a group. And the reason I formed Calaca and I call it Calaca Cultural Center, specifically, was for people to ask me so where is the cultural center. So then I went through the whole spiel of well we don t have a cultural center and you know why? And I kinda start playing on that. And so I did many many events all over the state actually in Tucson, in here. I went to every single event they invited me. I did I did art walks I did you know whatever was open festivals. And that was to basically educate people and inform people of the need of a cultural center. After a couple of years I put together another group I start talking to community people from prominent politicians to business people to whomever will listen to me. I (36:00) and I m asking them and telling them or trying to get from them if they knew of a cultural center and why they think that would probably be important here in the state a Latino cultural center. So most of them they re like whoa I never really thought about it. So but eventually I form my group and from that group a new organization started and that s what you find now downtown Phoenix if you see that cultural center right there in downtown on 2nd and Adams. Danette: 2nd and Adams? Marco: It s called ALAC. And that s the organization that I started from that group that I put together. Danette: Is that A-L-A-C? Marco: Correct. Danette: Okay. 10
Marco: And that s basically the organization I put together from that. But I m a person that always changing that always moving forward that always finding ways. And when I create something I m already thinking of the next project you know when I complete something I m already thinking about next project. So it s just something that I ve it s always it s in me. I like to create and I like to involve and I like to implement and I guess that I like to do hard work. Danette: Well you certainly came from the right roots for that. Marco: Right. Danette: 12 years old that s remarkable. Well what would you say is your greatest success story or maybe your favorite... Marco: I don t think it s here yet. Danette: It s the next best thing? Marco: Yes. Danette: That s great. What would you say was your greatest struggle? Marco: Going to school actually. Cause... Danette: Going to school. Marco: You know I went to elementary in Mexico but once I moved to United States, I went to different three different high schools. Because as a my dad was a farm worker so we had to move a lot. But not only that I mean I graduated in Mexico in my sixth grade. And I came here United States and I went straight to ninth grade so I skipped seven and eight. So I was very young going to high school. And then going without a language. But then in high school I could ve graduated in my third year in high school but I didn t know what to do after that because I d been I approach counselors and advisors and they keep telling me that I was not a good material for college. And so and so I took it upon myself to basically move forward and I had I took at that time they call it a senior English. And it was not required for that time for students to take four years of English there was only three. But I took it upon myself (39:00) to take calculus and English, senior English. And yet advisors keep telling me that I was not college material. But that s to tell you what kind of discrimination was there at that time. So I enroll in a community college and that s and because I change different high schools that I met different people. And the community college, that s when I re- got again reencountering some of those friends and that s when two of the other friends got together and decided to do something as a group and help each other. And we applied all three to the to architectural college here at ASU and we all three were accepted. And we all three went to the same classes and we all three changed to engineering you know. So we just 11
follow each other and support each other and help each other and that s how we kinda got went ahead. You know there s obstacles and you always try to find a way of jumping through or going around those obstacles there s just - and there s no way that you just stop because there s an obstacle you know you have to keep going. Danette: Keep going and overcome it. Marco: Yeah. Danette: That s fantastic. Where are the others, your... Marco: One is working as an engineer. He s actually right now expanding the Panama Canal. And the other one works for a communication company and he does the national projects for communications for them. Danette: That s fantastic. Now you have been the recipient of a number of awards but you have an unusual attitude or life philosophy with regards to this kind of recognition? Marco: Well I think if you do things for community or things that are gonna benefit other people in whatever way this that you feel like it you should do it because you like doing it not because you re gonna receive any kind of awards or any kind of recognitions or. And so for me I mean there have been many many times where people trying to give me some kind of award or recognition and I ve been refusing those. It s very seldom when I say okay you know. But I was recently I was not awarded, but I was basically set as one of the participants for the governor s award, art award and that s one of the few that I said okay, you know let s try and see. But yeah, it s usually I try to shy away from any of those any of those things. (42:00) History will tell you know. Danette: History will tell. Marco: Yeah. Danette: That s very very true. All right so currently you are employed at ASU. Marco: I am employed at ASU. I... Danette: (Inaudible). Marco: When I made that decision back in 2000, when I quit my job 2001, and if I was gonna get a job or get participating and it involves some kind of creative professional employment that s when I started working with museums and galleries. And so I gained a lot of experience in that. Have to setup exhibitions had to design exhibitions had to prep exhibitions fabricate exhibitions. Going to the curatorial process, everything basically. And now I m working there at the, what they used to call the anthropology department. And I m helping them design exhibitions for the collections. And also help 12
students within the museum studies program. Help the instructor basically and teach some of those classes in terms of the practical part of being an administrative in a museum yeah. So and that s all related to what I promised back then to myself. And those are the things that sometimes you have to commit to yourself. Even before that when I was starting the university I told myself the first five years I m going to help go to school and help students. Because I went through that experience of that lack of advice you know. So that s what I did I worked actually in the community college an advisor for a time. Then I work at the university through the National Science Foundation Program as an as a program advisor and eventually coordinator of the program you know. So those are the promises you have to set to yourself follow them. Danette: Fantastic. So that s not the only thing you do it seems like every moment of your life is filled with something new (inaudible). Marco: There s always something. There s always things that I start or things that I get involved or ways of contributing back to the community. Danette: I would like to mention in that vein that this oral history has come about as a part of that commitment that you re currently helping the Chandler-Gilbert Community College with a Latino celebration that they re putting together and we certainly appreciate that effort. But you also have other shows that you re involved in. You have some art work on display in Mesa and you have something exciting that you re working on in Tucson. Could you tell us a little bit about that and maybe if I haven t mentioned something (45:00) that s going on you can tell me about that as well. Marco: Yeah Mesa they have one of my pieces that I was invited through the installation or art collection that Cheech Marin has. And if you don t know Cheech Marin is an actor and he s one of the biggest collectors of Chicano art nationally internationally probably. And so many times museums and galleries ask him to setup exhibitions in relation to his collection. And this time they invited about seven artists, local artists here from Arizona, to be part of the exhibition. I was one of those artists and so one of my pieces is there until January it s gonna be there. But I also have an exhibition that I just actually took some of my pieces to Tucson. From artists they re somehow in some way they have connection through the Bracero program. And my dad was a Bracero so they actually the reason why they approached me was to ask for some of my dad s artifacts. Apparently according to the Arizona Historical Society Museum, apparently I have one of the biggest artifact collection here in the state. Cause most of the time people throw those things away. I managed to save some of the artifacts of my Dad s (inaudible). And then some of them are even thrown away cause I used to have shirts that he used and but even those disappear already. So but apparently I have biggest collection. So they find out and then they contacted me because of that. And because I have a group of artists I told them hey, let s introduce some art into the exhibition. And I ve done this through the Chandler-Gilbert Community College before and I think that art and (inaudible) component of art within this exhibition is probably good. But it s even best 13
if the artists are have the connection to the Bracero program in some way or form. And some of these artists their parents or their grandparents were involved in the program. So. Danette: Okay. Now are these artifacts on display anywhere at the Historical Society perhaps? Marco: No I have all the collection. I took some of that some of those components to artifacts to Tucson but I have some of the other ones too so. Danette: Well that s a nice tribute to your father. What does your mother think? Marco: Oh she s happy. I mean and I keep telling her mom when you pass on you re gonna be the next and she just laughs you know. Cause she s 90 right now and (48:00)... Danette: Oh my goodness. Marco: Yeah so. Danette: That s wonderful. Well is there something you d like to talk about that we haven t touched on yet? Marco: You know one of the things I believe that arts or the art movement here in the United States for Latino artists is just basically starting. We re very young and what we re and how we approach art communities throughout the whole United States. Some of the some of the museums are barely recognizing Latino or Chicano art as a generally legitimate art form. And I believe that the future is just open up for us as artists. I m in a different generation but I think the younger generation hopefully they can appreciate the work that many of the older artists did for them. And I m hoping that the younger generation are gonna have an easier way of expressing, displaying, and working within the arts community than we have ourselves you know. So I think through these oral histories and these kind of projects are projects that are going to open up those opportunities for them. Danette: That s fantastic. We d like to thank you for your time and we appreciate your efforts and all that you do. Marco: Thank you. Danette: Thank you. 14