Filing # 83132848 E-Filed 01/10/2019 10:20:20 AM IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT OF THE STATE OF FLORIDA IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY State of Florida, Plaintiff,. vs. : Case No. 006CF I John Nicholas Jonchuck, Jr., Defendant. : / : / Taken by: Doug Eis, Esquire On Behalf of State Date: Tuesday, October 2, 2018 Time: Place: Reported by: 1:49 p.m. 3:03 p.m. State Attorney's Office 140 49th Street North Room OO Clearwater, FL 33762 KayLynn Boyer Court Reporter Notary Public State of Florida at Large Deposition of: DR. JOSE HERNANDEZ Pages l 55 BOYER COURT REPORTING, INC. Post Office Box 3812 Seminole, Florida 33775 (727) 455 5818 ***ELECTRONICALLY FILED 01/10/2019 10:20:19 AM: KEN BURKE, CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT, PINELLAS COUNTY***
APPEARANCES: Douglas Eis, Esquire Assistant State Attorney 140 49th Street North Room OO Clearwater, FL 33762 Appeared on behalf of Plaintiff Paul Bolan, Esquire Assistant State Attorney 140 49th Street North Room OO Clearwater, FL 33762 Appeared on behalf of Plaintiff Gregory Wiiams, Esquire Assistant Public Defender 140 49th Street North Clearwater, FL 33762 Appeared on behalf of Defendant Jessica Manuele, Esquire Assistant Public Defender 140 49th Street North Clearwater, FL 33762 Appeared on behalf of Defendant
l P R O C E E D I N G S 2 THEREUPON, 3 Jose Hernandez 4 Was adduced as a witness herein, and, after 5 first being duly sworn on oath, was examined and 6 testified as foows: 7 DIRECT EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. ELLIS: 9 Q. Would you state your name and occupation for the record, please. A. Jose Hernandez, I'm a psychiatrist. Q. And who do you work for? A. For the Sheriff's Office. Q. Exclusively or do you have a practice as we? A. I do have a part time job in Polk County at the crisis center. Q. So you work for a government agency in that county? A. No, it's private. Q. It's private, okay. What is that agency? A. It's Peace River Center. Q. And how long have you worked there? A. Four years. Q. And you say that's part time? A. Part time.
Q. And how long have you worked at the Pineas County Jail? A. Q. About seven and a half years. What education and training have you had that qualifies you to be a psychiatrist? A. Q. I went through medical school. Where? In the Dominican Republic. And from when to When? I graduated in '82, so however many years. The questions only get harder. I know. It's not like it's been ten years. believe it was '82. Q. Okay. And then did you do a residency or a feowship subsequent to that? I A. Q. I did. Where did you do your residency? Hoand Hospital in New York. What hospital? Hoand. How long did you do that residency? Three years. And did you -- I did a Feowship in Child adolescent psychiatry for two more years.
Q. A. Q. Foowing Hoand? Yes. After you did the Feowship in child psychiatry what did you do? A. Q. I was working in New York in the hospital. At Hoand? No, Woohu Hospital. How do you spe that? W o o h u l l. A. Q. hospital? A. And that's in New York City? In Brooklyn. Brooklyn, okay. And what did you do at that I was the assistant director of the Child Psychiatry Program. Q. A. Q. A. And how long did you work at that hospital? About three years. And then what did you do? Moved to Florida, and I was working in Hisborough for five years. Q. A. Hisborough what? Hisborough County, the jail. Okay. As a psychiatrist in Hisborough? Yeah. Why did you go from child psychology to working
in a forensic facility type situation like the jail? A. It was just by chance. Q. Okay. A. A friend of mine recommended me there, I liked it so I stayed. Q. Why did you leave Hisborough? A. One of the guys who used to work there with me, he moved to this jail, Pineas, so he caed me, I came, and I liked it better and I stay here for seven and a half years. Q. Okay. We received records from your jail indicating that Mr. Jonchuck, the defendant in this case, was a patient in the jail that you had seen? A. Yes. Q. One of the first entries in this record is a Gail Newby. Do you know Gail Newby? N-e-w-b-y. Provider Gail Miranda Newby? A. Probably was a medical, not psych. Q. Okay. And that occurred on January 8th, 20, at 6:12 a.m. When would you have first seen him, do you reca? A. I think I saw him the first day when he had came to jail, if I'm not mistaken. Q. Now, in Ms. Newby's records she indicated that under suicidal ideations, thoughts, or attempts --
MS. MANUELE: Do you have a date or page for it? MR. ELLIS: That's the January 8, 20, at 6:12 a.m. BY MR. ELLIS: Q. And she's indicated under number five here, under Ideation, that the command haucinations to hurt self or others, the answer is no. Is that a question that is normay asked of the patient? A. Yeah, that's part of when they come through booking, like a screening question. Q. So when he was asked if he had any haucinations to hurt himself or someone else he indicated no? A. Right, that's what I see. Sometime for, you know, safety issues when we do the screening, the screening and intake, and even sometimes if they are not suicidal we put on suicide watch, especiay a high media case, and you know, stress, and the nature of the crime sometimes they are on suicidal watch even if they don't say they were suicidal. Q. Now there's another category caed abnormal behavior. And it says, abnormal behavior, speech, thinking, psychosis, agitation, the answer is no. that an observation or is that a question? Is
A. That's observation. Remember, people who do this usuay is the nurse that would be working, it's not a mental health person. Q. I understand, but they are somebody who has seen lots of people come through, correct? A. Right. Right. Q. So that's not a question, that's an observation? A. Right. Q. Also, it indicates that, the patient states that they have been sexuay victimized. Is that a typical question to ask an inmate? A. Yes, at the screening. Q. Why? A. Because any patient that have been sexuay abused in any institution, so they can get counseling. Q. And it says, depression evaluation. It says depressed mood, sad, the answer is no. Would that be an observation as we, or is that a question, are you feeling sad or depressed? A. Most of the time it is a question. Q. So the answer to that is no? A. Correct. Q. Do you reca why you were referred to Mr. Jonchuck that day?
A. He got placed, if I'm not mistaken, he was on suicidal watch. Q. Even though it was indicated that he did not have any suicidal ideations and was not depressed, they put him on suicide watch? A. Yeah. Like I told you before, any time somebody comes with these kind of Charges we usuay make sure they are safe. So even if they deny sometimes we, you know, we make our decision and we put on suicide watch or close obs. Q. Better safe than sorry? A. Definitely. Because usuay this is in the first few hours when the patient kis himself, especiay in a high media case, it's a lot of stress that comes with that. Q. Now, I have a report here from Bernard Yukna, Y u k n a, do you know who that is? A. Yeah, that's a medical doctor. Q. Medical doctor? A. Yes. Q. What kind of medical doctor? A. I believe he's family practice. Family practice, yeah. Q. He would have seen, encounter date it says January 8th, 20, at 10:19 a.m., and he does a mental
assessment of Mr. Jonchuck, says he's conscious, alert, not disoriented, and no mental impairment. Is that based on observations or questions? A. Both ways. I mean, Dr. Yukna asks question sometimes. He's a medical doctor, not mental health. Q. But he indicated there was no mental impairment? A. Right. The patient, if you ask the question they deny a the stuff. Q. We just talked to Mr. Jones, if an inmate refuses medications you guys don't force it on them? A. We can not. Q. Not even psychiatric medication? A. Right, we can not. Q. Even if it was previously described? A. Yeah, we cannot force it. Even sometimes when they come from the State Hospital, when they come here to jail and they refuse, we can not force them. Q. Even though the State Hospital prescribes it? A. Right. Q. It looks like you first saw him on January 8th, 20, at 5:16 p.m.? A. (Nodding head.) Q. Does that seem to be correct? A. Yes, that's my record.
Q. I didn't see any records that you saw him before that time, this is the first day? A. I remember that. Q. Because he had been put on a suicide watch, is that why you were seeing him? A. Right. Q. You spoke with him for how long? A. I think the first time he was very uncooperative, so I probably didn't put that. I remember the deputy was looking for him to take him in front of the Judge and he refused. So when he saw me at the door he came to the door. The first thing he did was like checking my ring. He asked, how you find this? So, you know, he was looking for conversation, but then he went back to sleep again. Q. It says you asked him if he knew why he was in jail, do you reca doing that? A. We, I usuay ask that question. Q. Do you reca his answer? I' let you read this. A. He said he kied his daughter. Yes, I kied my daughter. Q. And you had some more conversation with him and then you have that he appeared to be very paranoid, behavior was erratic, and very ambivalent, what did you
mean by that? A. You ask questions to the patient sometimes, they don't give us the answer. They, you know, they probably say, I ki my daughter but I didn't do it, or something. Or, I'm not sure. They are very ambivalent, they don't give us an answer sometimes. Q. So do you know how long you were with him that first meeting? A. For how long the first time? Q. Yes, sir? A. Probably minutes, I guess. Q. Now you put DX, and it says Psychosis NOS. What does DX mean? A. Diagnosis. Q. And then below Psychosis NOS is R/O, R, O is capitalized, Chronic Paranoid Schizophrenia? A. I was thinking that. Q. So at that point you did not believe it was Chronic Paranoid Schizophrenia? A. Right. I was thinking about it, but I didn't have the whole information for that diagnosis. Q. So at that point that's something it might be? A. Right. Q. I got you. Why did you say Psychosis NOS. A. We, he definitely was psychotic when he got
there. His behavior was very, you know, unpredictable and made no sense anyway. Q. Again, how was it unpredictable? A. We, he was coming to the door, then went back to, you know, to his bed, and then, you know, was doing something very erratic. I believe he mentioned something about John the Baptist, I don't know if I wrote it in there. Q. Yes, you did. You indicated that he denied any alcohol or drugs, he said, I want to redeem myself, my name is John the Baptist, even the name given to me was Jonchuck. He did not have any medical problems, blood pressure, et cetera. He said, I do not need to take any psych meds, they don't work for me. You wrote in here under mental status, that judgment is very poor. A. Right. Q. What do you mean by that? A. We, judgment is like, you know, normay when you do something either you have good judgment or poor judgment. Whatever he did, that particular situation, I mean, throwing his daughter in the water. Q. Did you know the facts when you talked to him? A. I knew about the incident, I didn't know him. Q. Did you have any history other than what he gave you?
A. I don't remember, but at the time there was a little writing in the newspaper about him, so I probably, you know, I got it from there. Q. I mean, his history, as in any psychiatric history, any physical history, you know, at one point you said he had a spinal stimulator, were you aware o a that? A. No, unless he said it. Q. And you wrote that you considered that it wa f S chronic paranoid schizophrenia. Without a prior history how would you think it would be chronic? A. We, I mean, in the statement he did mention Q. I' give them to you. A. -- no psych medication was working for him, was teing me basicay he was not on psych meds before. Q. Did he te you what psych meds? A. No, no. Q. Did he te you who he had seen before? A. I don't know. Q. Did he te you what diagnosis he had been given before? A. No. Like I told you he was not reay communicating, he was not open to that. he
Q. Who is Thomas Carro? A. It's a medical person. Q. A nurse? A. Yes. Q. On January 9th, 20, at 10:42 p.m. he gave a mental assessment and said he was conscious, alert, not disoriented, no mental impairment, sleep pattern normal. A. (Nodding head.) Q. So this is after you saw him but he didn't think there was any of mental impairment? A. Yes. Again, remember, they are medical, you know, sometimes they don't know what they are looking for. Q. Okay. A. They mostly focus on the medical issues. Q. They are not trained to look for psychiatric issues? A. We, they are trained, but you know, it is different. I mean, that's what we work with in psych, so we have different approach sometimes. Most the people ask the same question, want to ki yourself, "yes" or "no"? No, okay, no. We don't proceed that way, we go a little deeper. Q. So every time that appears in the records, and it appears many times, that's not professionals is what
you're saying? A. We, not professionals in psyche. Mostly medical. Q. I meant professionals in psychiatric medicine. A. Right. Q. Okay. Do you know why you were listed in this case? A. I guess because I was the one who was seeing him the first month. Q. Okay. Are you anticipating giving any testimony regarding the sanity of Mr. Jonchuck at the time of the murder? A. Not at a. I mean, I handle patients every day, different cases. Q. So you're not here for a sanity situation, you're here to describe the conditions of Mr. Jonchuck while he was in the jail? A. I guess so. Q. That's your belief? A. Yes. Q. No one told you why you would be testifying? A. No. Q. Do you have a vacation or something coming up? A. This Friday. Q. This Friday. For how long is that?
A. Ten days. It was around a conference at the same time. MR. BOLAN: Can I ask a question while you're looking? MR. ELLIS: Sure. EXAMINATION BY MR. BOLAN: Q. So did you ever do any malingering test of Mr. Jonchuck? A. No. Q. Is that something you would normay do? A. I don't. Q. Why is that? A. That's not my position as a treating psychiatrist, not for competency or, you know, nothing like that. So if a patient is sick I wi give medication, I treat him, if he wi aow me to. the right to refuse. But malingering test, no. Q. Okay. So you're a treating physician as opposed to a forensic doctor, I guess, is the comparison? A. Not reay. He has Q. Explain to me what you mean by when you say you're a treating physician. A. We, any patient, as we know of mental health
patients, there are more in jail and prison than other mental institution in the United States, so a the patients get there, with mental iness there is anxiety, Bipolar, drugs, and they don't get treatment outside. When they get there, if I believe that they need treatment and I can help them, I do. Q. Is it possible that he was malingering psychosis? A. To be honest with you, I once had a patient who had psychosis for like l5 years. I don't believe he was pretending to be sick at least in the beginning, he was sick, mentay i, psychotic. Q. And you can say that without even having done a malingering test? A. Right. Q. What is that based on? A. Based on observation, based on communication, you know, seeing him every day. Q. How much time do you think you spent with him overa the entire time he was in jail? A. I would say basicay not every day but at least three or four times a week for the time being that he was there. He was there in the beginning so if I'm not mistaken for a month. Q. So three or four times a week?
A. Probably. Q. How long each time? A. We, the thing with him, he was not cooperating so, you know, you go to the him questions and he won't answer them. out if he's eating, drinking water, he' patient and ask So I just find s alive. Q. So when you would meet with him it would just be for a few minutes at a time? A. For the most part, yeah. At times it was very aggressive, it was threatening. If you don't get out of my door I'm going to throw juice on you, things like that. Q. Is it a possibility he could be malingering even though in your opinion he was not? A. We, I don't know. I haven't three years. But when he was got there seen him for he was very psychotic, there's no doubt about it, for whatever reason, whether he was high on drugs or very psychotic. not, but he was Q. Could have been drug use you said? A. It could be. For the most part people using drugs, and the first couple weeks, you know, they are acting very bizarre, out of control, and then they start getting better. He did not. I mean, he was the same the whole time.
Q. You said he was psychotic but he knew that he kied his daughter, correct? A. He said so, yes. From my experience most of the time the malingering ones, they lie basicay. So sometimes when somebody like that tes you they know what they did, maybe they are reay sick. With malingering, do you know why you're here? I don't know, no Clue. You te me. You know, they pretend not to know anything. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. ELLIS: Q. Do you do any testing at a, any psychiatric testing at a? A. No. Q. Have you have ever been qualified as an expert in court? A. I've been in court a couple of times. Q. Where? A. In Hisborough. Q. When was that? A. A few years ago. Q. And what did you testify to in court? A. The same issue right now, the patient got there to the jail, I was treating the patient and, you know, the defense says he was sick and the prosecutor says he
was not, so they ca me for that particular case, you know. I don't like what he did, I don't have nothing against him, so you know, if I reay believe he was sick I treat him. Q. You said you did that two times in Hisborough? A. I believe four times. Q. Do you remember the names of the cases? A. One was Ragusa, accused of having sex with a student; another one was Delgado, he kied, he was at home and then kied his son in Hisborough. Q. That's two, do you remember the other two? A. The other one was, I don't remember the name. Q. That's okay. A. And the other one I didn't go to court because the guy, he pled guilty. It was Covington, the one who chopped his girlfriend's head, the arm, and the leg, and did the same thing to the daughter and the boy. Q. Okay. So you didn't have to testify in court? A. I didn't have to go to court for that, but I had a deposition like this. Q. Have you ever been to court for your part time job? A. No. Q. Not civil court or civil court?
A. No. Q. On January 14, 20, at 7:01 p.m. you apparently had a foow-up visit with Mr. Jonchuck, and you wrote, patient remains showing unpredictable disorganized behavior. At times threatening writer, later on aowed vital signs be taken, and later decided to take pis for HTN? A. Let's see what it is. Q. What is HTN? A. For high blood pressure, hypertension. Q. Hypertension. What did you mean by remains showing unpredictable disorganized behavior? A. A the time what he was doing was he was getting out of the bed and came to the door and then, you know, he start to talk, and then decide not to talk and went back to bed. Very unpredictable. He didn't know what he wanted to do. Q. On January at 3:39 p.m. you wrote that you met with him and he looked at your badge, is that similar to the badge you're wearing now? A. Yes. Q. For the record, it's a clear plastic bag, or type of holder that has a picture of Dr. Hernandez, and a star above it, with Pineas County Jail. Is that what you would have had back in January of '?
A. Yes. Q. Okay. And you indicated that he wanted to know how you were a medical doctor, and he said, I can't talk to you any more, my lawyer told me not to talk to you, and then turned his back towards the wa. You said he appeared to be paranoid. Is that because he wouldn't talk to you? A. We, not necessarily that particular moment, but, you know, his behavior in total. He want to know who you are, he want to talk to you, then he Change his mind. Q. Then apparently you met with him again on February 17, 20 at 10:45 a.m. You indicated that he was oriented to person, place, and time, and then you had a diagnostic impression, and you have an Axis 1, Axis II, and Axis III. The Axis 1 diagnostic impression was HX: Bipolar PT. What is HX: Bipolar PT? A. By the patient. Q. What does HX mean? A. History. Q. So Mr. Jonchuck told you that he was Bipolar at that time? A. If I wrote it there, yeah, that's what it says. Q. Axis II deferred, what does that mean?
A. We, Axis II has to do with the personality. If you are, you know, antisocial, passive aggressive. Q. So it's personality disorders? A. Right. Q. You deferred that, what does that mean? A. Means I didn't have enough information to say he's not antisocial or he's borderline personality. Q. Is that kind of like your R/O that you put 9 earlier? A. Rule out. Q. Rule out? A. Yes. Q. And then Axis III it says, denied, but taking meds for heart. What is Axis III? A. Axis III is for the medical, if you have a seizure, hypertension, or diabetes. Q. It says denied but taking meds for heart. What did he deny? A. I believe the history of hypertension. Q. I' let you see a the records so you're not guessing. A. Right, right. Q. (Handing) A. I believe he said he wasn't taking any medication for that. That was not me writing, it was
one of the social workers. Q. Okay. It has your provider name? A. I'm the supervisor so any note that they write my name is there. Q. So when it says that thought processes are blocked, you didn't write that? A. No, that was not me. Q. Do you know who would have written this since your name appears? A. That was one of the social workers that used to work with me before. Q. So that whole page that has your name on it, none of that is from you? A. Right, it's not. Q. Okay. So he would have told her he was Bipolar, not you? A. Yeah, she wrote it there. Q. Okay. Now, I have that you are listed again on January 18th, 20 at 2:17 p.m. Would that have been something that you had a visit with him or is that again someone else using your name? A. That again was the same social worker as before. Q. So when it says that his mood was euthymic, which basicay means normal mood, that's not your
26 evaluation, that's her evaluation? A. Right. Q. I guess it gets a little bit easier when most people put their own name up there when they are providers. Like the next person to see him was Mauricio Rangel. A. She's the medical part. The lady, she was working with me, she's a social worker. Q. So she thought his mood was normal, but that's not something that you made a determination on? A. No. Q. I have a note of foow up on January 19, 20 at 5:02 p.m., is that you or is that someone else? A. That's another lady, social worker, she work there with me too, Ms. Watt. Q. So the two of you were together and she wrote the notes? A. No. Q. She wrote the notes? A. Yes. Q. And she saw him? A. Yes. Q. Okay. On January 20th, 20, 6: p.m., is that yours? A. That's mine.
27 Q. So you actuay saw him on that day? A. Yes. Q. And he wouldn't talk to you on that day? A. Yeah, he was not interested in talking to writer. When I asked him if he was taking medication for blood pressure he said, I don't want medications, and faced the wa and wouldn't talk. Q. On January st, 20, at 5:55 p.m., is that you or is that someone else? A. That was me. Q. You say, he remains delusional and paranoid. What delusions were you speaking of? A. We, I remember that particular situation. The new social worker started working that day and we went to see him together and she was working there with me. We went to see him together and he came, he was lying down on the mat and then he said, oh, Ms. Bernadette, you came to see me, you don't remember me? Q. Was her name Bernadette? A. No. Her name is Yvette. Q. Yvette? A. Yeah. He said, you are the social worker on my daughter, the case worker. And then she was mute, she didn't say anything. So, you know him? And she said, no, never seen this guy. But he believed she was
28 Bernadette. Q. So you determined that was a delusion? A. Delusion, yeah. Q. Not mistaken identity, that was delusion? A. Right, yes. Q. Okay. On January nd, 20, 5:48 p.m., is that you or is that someone else? A. That's me again. Q. Okay. And he totay ignores you at that point? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And it says you continue SR, what is SR? A. Suicidal risk. Q. Due to unpredictable behavior? A. Right. Q. What unpredictable behavior had you seen besides totay ignoring you? A. We, the thing is, even when I was not there, you know, I would ask the deputy, how is this patient doing? They are watching them /7, so again, anybody show unpredictable behavior, you talk to him, you don't know what they are going to do, they don't want to talk to you, or they want to jump from the thing, or they want to hang themselves, we don't know. So, you know, it's unpredictable. Maybe want to talk to you that day,
29 maybe not talking to you, so it's not interaction with the patient. Q. And what is SR? What are the protocols for SR? A. We, anybody that, as I explained at the beginning, who is high media case like he was, and they showing that kind of behavior, very irrational, we put them on suicidal watch, suicidal risk. Most the time they find them hanging themselves. So they have a paper gown instead of Clothes so they can not hang themselves with paper gown. Q. And do they give them like utensils to eat with, those kinds of things? A. No. Q. Did you see him on January rd, 20, at 6:41 p.m., is that you? A. That's me. Q. And he showed you some sarcasm that day, correct? A. Right. That's what I wrote there. Q. Okay. A. He was never so polite, put it that way. Q. Now on January, 20, at 11:51 a.m. you saw him and he said he was experiencing suicidal thoughts but would not go into detail, is that your report? A. No, that was not me. That was another social
3O worker. Q. Okay. So that's another time someone else used your name during this visit? A. Right. Any other social worker who sits in for me from mental health, my name is there. Q. Okay. And you get copies of a these reports, correct? A. Oh, yes, yes, yes, it's in the system. Q. So on the th when he said someone had told him not to eat, you don't know what that was about because you weren't present? A. Right, I don't. Q. On January th, 20, at 12:30 p.m. it has your name again, did you meet with him at that time? A. Yeah, that was again the social worker. That was on a weekend, I don't work on weekends, I was on ca. Q. The th was a weekend? A. Usuay when the social worker notes usuay they saw him during the weekend, Saturday or Sunday. Q. So when it reads, when asked if he was suicidal he nodded and said, I just don't want anyone else to get hurt, you weren't there for that? A. Right. Q. On January 27th, 20, at 9:28 a.m., Mr. Rangel
31 indicated that the defendant took the blood pressure cuff off of his arm and swung it at him, were you aware of that? A. I was reading the notes. Dr. Rangel is the medical doctor. So, yeah, probably, when things like that happen, usuay they write it down and we read it. Q. Is that something that is unusual for somebody in the jail to react that way? A. We, it's not too unusual, it happens from time to time. Q. What medications was he taking from the start? You said hypertension medication, what was he taking? A. I don't remember. I don't know. Q. Did they change over time? A. The medication? Q. Yes. A. I don't know from medical, but I do remember when he had came from the State Hospital he was on medication. Yeah, they put him on medication. Q. We' get to that part of it in a little bit. Before he went to the State Hospital the first time did you recommend any psychiatric medication? A. He was seen but he didn't want to talk about it. Q. So you did not recommend any?
32 A. Right. Probably because he is not a typical communicator. He's not. Q. Did you see him on January 27th, 20, at 7:19 p.m.? Is that you or is that someone else? A. That was me. I was working late. Q. And at that point you indicated he was scared. Do you know why it indicated that? A. Yeah, when I asked him why, I wrote in here he said he didn't know why. Or he didn't respond. Q. Do you remember Craig Wa? A. Yes. Q. When was Craig Wa put in the same area as Mr. Jonchuck? A. They were, if I remember, at one point they were, the ces, they were neighbors. Q. Okay. A. And Craig Wa was, he was there for, you know, for the charge of kiing his kid, but he denied he did. Q. And kiing his wife, right? A. And his wife. He said he kied his wife, and the wife kied the kid. But anyway he was giving a hard time to this guy, Jonchuck, the whole day, kid kier the whole day. Q. Was that a time when Mr. Wa was present or was that before Mr. Wa was present when he said he was
33 scared, or do you reca? A. I don't remember exactly if it was at that particular time. Q. But the next day, on January 28th, 20, at 5:29 p.m. is that you that saw him? A. That was me again, yes. Q. And it indicates that you asked him how he was feeling today and he smiled but did not answer? A. Right. Q. So whatever scared him before was not bothering him at that point? A. When there was the situation with Craig Wa I made sure they Changed his ce. Q. Okay. A. But I feel sorry for him but sometimes that's what you do to keep people calm. Q. On January 29th, 20, at 5:09 p.m. is that your report? A. That was me. Q. You gave a diagnosis there, if I may have it back just to read it correctly then I' give it back to you; Diagnosis, Psychosis NOS, and then Personality Disorder NOS? A. Right. Q. Why did you write that at that time? You gave
34 a diagnosis early on, and then until January 29th you had not given any other diagnosis, why on that date did you give those diagnoses? A. You know, the more you see the patient the more you become familiarized with their behavior. And therefore, besides being psychotic he has personality issues, I didn't know exactly which ones. Q. And why didn't you know exactly which ones? A. We, most the time the people in jail in general, most the time their main personality disorder is antisocial but I don't know a the details to see if he's antisocial, you know. Q. But you believe he had personality disorder at that time? A. No doubt about it. I think he always had one. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. BOLAN: Q. What kind of personality disorder? A. We, again, most of the people who are there are, you know, antisocial, and/or borderline, across the beat, we ca it across the beat, borderline antisocial, narcicisstic, you know. Q. Personality disorder I know can be very broad, I just want to narrow it down. Do you think Mr. Jonchuck's behavior was more antisocial or borderline --
35 A. There's no doubt about it. Yeah, no doubt. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. ELLIS: Q. The foowing day January 30, 20, 3:09 p.m., is that your report? A. That's mine. Q. And in that you wrote, diagnosis, or DX - r/o schizoaffective disorder, Bipolar type. So you were ruling out schizoaffective disorder? A. Right, ruling out. Q. So you don't believe he had that? A. We, again, because when the patient don't talk to you so much, you know, you rely mostly on his behavior. And Q. Go ahead. A. Yeah. So, you know, I was with him for so long, I started thinking he was more like schizoaffective disorder. Q. Why did you decide on the 29th to write psychosis NOS, personality disorder NOS, and then on the 30th to put that on a separate day? I don't understand why you wouldn't put it a on the one day? A. We, the thing is, when the patient is acting so, you know, different, showing different behavior every day, and I mean, also you get a little confused in
36 the sense, oh, this guy is always acting schizophrenic, Bipolar, you know, you watch him and look for something new. Q. Okay. What changed between the 29th and the 30th that made you write that? A. I don't know. Probably my observations. Q. Because it says that he was seen today, refused eating breakfast, he was selectively mute, he would just look at you and Dr. Kyle but did not say any word and continued facing the wa, totay ignoring us. It says, later on in the afternoon patient reported eating lunch, sti refusing medications for HTN and psyche. So what about that that he refused to talk to you caused you to write that? A. We, again, not necessarily that particular moment, but they had been observing him for a long time. Q. Okay. MS. MANUELE: Can I ask a question quick? It might clarify. MR. ELLIS: Go ahead. MS. MANUELE: When you put r/o, are you saying I have ruled this out or you're saying I need to rule this out as it is a possibility? A. Right. MS. MANUELE: Okay.
37 A. Thinking about it's a possibility. MS. MANUELE: Just wanted to Clarify that, I think there was some confusion. BY MR. ELLIS: Q. Does it make a difference whether it was capital R/O or non-capital r/o? Because you wrote it two different ways, I don't know if it means something. A. No, no, it doesn't mean anything. Q. Is this your report on 2/1/ at 4:53 p.m.? A. No, that was the social worker. Q. Okay. So they use your name and you didn't do it. When it says, thought content revealed compulsions, we don't know why that was written? A. I don't know. Q. Had you seen anything prior to that date of February 1st that you would think that showed compulsions on the part of the defendant? Had you seen anything? A. No, no, I don't think so. Q. And every time you saw him you did a report? A. Yes. Q. On February 3rd, 20, 7:40 p.m. did you do that report? A. That was me, yes. Q. That was you?
38 A. Yes. Q. On Valentine's Day at 10:04 a.m., is that your report? A. No, I was not supposed to be working that day. Q. So when it says patient is unable to understand and cannot agree to refrain from harmful actions, we don't know what that meant. A. We, I mean, it's a problem that he didn't feel comfortable getting him off suicidal watch, probably asking him. Q. It says that the inmate in the next ce was harassing him and he wanted to talk, would that have been Craig Wa? A. Could be. Q. I thought we moved Wa before February 14th? A. I don't know, that probably was another incident. Q. I assumed the person harassing him was Mr. Wa? A. That I reca at the time, yes, but I don't know if it was someone else. Q. May have been someone else harassing him? A. Right. Q. Did he ever te you someone else was harassing him other than Mr. Wa?
39 A. No, he never told me. Q. Did he te anyone in your staff? A. Not that I reca, no. Q. February 13th, is that your visitation? A. Yes. Q. Okay. February 12th, is that your visitation? A. Right, yes. You can te, most the notes show that he was not communicating with me. Q. February 11th, is that yours? A. That was mine too. Q. And then we have February 10th. It seems like you saw him several days in a row, was there a reason for that? A. No. I usuay am in Charge of the floor, so most of the patients are there, so I'm the one who is seeing them, except for weekends. Q. We, in your other reports it was few days or longer. There seems to be a span where you saw him every single day in a row, is there a reason for that? A. No, probably just chance. Q. Again, he was not talking to you, he ignored you during this time? A. Right. Q. When did he go to the State Hospital, do you reca?
4O A. I don't reca exactly. Q. How long was he gone? A. I'm not sure. Maybe a year. Q. When he came back did he come back with a prescription for medication? A. He did, yes. Q. Do you reca what those specific medications were? A. We, I was looking at the record yesterday, I didn't remember so I looked. I saw he was on Seroquel, it's an antipsychotic; he was on Haldol injection that they gave him every morning, and Haldol is another antipsychotic, it's a pi. Q. That's a pi? A. Pi, yeah. Q. Nothing that was liquid? A. Not that I reca, no. Q. Did he take his medications when he came back? A. I believe he was starting, I don't believe he was taking them. Q. He was offered these medication? A. Oh, yeah, yeah. Any person that comes from the State Hospital we offer medication if they are prescribed. Q. So if someone aeged that he was not given
41 medications that would be wrong? A. Oh, yeah, it doesn't happen. Q. So it was his refusal to take them? A. Right. MR. ELLIS: Anything? EXAMINATION BY MR. BOLAN: Q. Can a person be oriented to person, place, and time and sti be psychotic? A. Oh, yes, definitely. Q. Explain how. A. We, some people are very, I mean, you can be oriented to time and place and at the same time you're psychotic. It depends. Some people hear the voices, have lost touch with reality. Those people probably they are not oriented, fuy involved. But some psychotic people, you know, they can talk to you normay, you have different conversations, there is nothing delusional about it, and they know what you are talking about. But yeah, they can be very smart, remember you sometimes even haven't seen for a couple years, oh, you're the doctor who saw me before. Q. What were the behaviors that you observed at the jail that made you say he was a Cluster B?
42 A. We, his behaviors, like I said, he was not polite at a, you know, he always like, if you don't get out of my door I'm going to throw juice on you, something like that. So, yeah, that kind of behavior. Q. The antisocial behavior, or maybe even psychopathic behavior, does that raise a concern for possibly exaggerating symptoms? A. It could. I mean, a lot of people with mental health, they are antisocial. The fact that you have mental iness doesn't take away that you are antisocial. So sometimes combined. You could be antisocial at the same time. Q. And does that antisocial, could that cause someone to exaggerate the schizophrenic behavior? A. It could, yes. Q. Do you think that that could have happened in this case, there could have been some exaggeration? A. With him, no. I think when he came, you have to keep in mind what he did, it was not a stranger, it was his daughter. If you lose someone in a type of crime like that, and then you want to play like mentay sick, there is another person maybe tries to play it. But what he did to his daughter, that was real, that was very close to him. I'm not offended in any way, but I do feel he was very sick when he got there, and I don't
43 know now. So yeah, you have to pu things together. You know, it was not somebody else, it was his little daughter that he did what he did. Q. The fact that it was his own daughter, explain to me how that makes a difference in terms of your analysis. A. Antisocial usuay have a plan, right? And always it's a gain to them usuay. I mean, a gain to you. In that particular case I don't know what he was going to gain kiing his daughter. It's a why did he do it, you know. Q. Are you saying antisocial people never hurt their loved ones or never hurt their families? A. No, that's not true. I mean, you can be antisocial, the definition of antisocial is personal disregard for other people's rights, you know. You know, they ki you, they rape you, they steal from you, they don't have no remorse. But when they come to their own family, sometimes they don't think that way. So this particular case, again, that was the daughter. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. ELLIS: Q. You were saying when a person is psychotic and hears voices they can be oriented to date, time, and place?
44 A. They can, yes. Q. Did Mr. Jonchuck ever te you he was hearing voices? A. Like you can see in my notes he barely communicated with me most the time. Q. So he never said that? A. Right. Q. He never described any other haucinations? A. No. I just remember when he had got there he said he was John the Baptist or something like that, he was very delusional. Q. Yeah, haucinations. I was getting to haucinations, you say he didn't have any? A. Right. Q. Now, the delusions you talked about, the John the Baptist, thinking the nurse was someone else, thinking a corrections officer was a police officer, any other delusions that you were aware of that you witnessed or read about? A. No. Q. Okay. When he came back the second time was there any delusions or haucinations that you remember? A. Yeah. He was not communicating much either when he came back. Q. The second time?
45 A. Correct. Q. He didn't like being here? A. Got a feeling, no. Q. Are you aware how he communicated at the State Hospital? Did you get any records or anything? A. I did, yes. Q. And he communicated at the State Hospital fairly regularly? A. I don't know. I believe he was found competent. I believe he was found competent the first time. Q. And came back and went back incompetent? A. Right. MR. ELLIS: Thank you, Doctor. MS. MANUELE: I have some questions. MR. ELLIS: I'm sorry, go ahead. CROSS EXAMINATION BY MS. MANUELE: Q. Good afternoon, Dr. Hernandez, just to clarify a couple things for the records that we have from the jail here; you're listed as the provider. Fair to say the name that is associated with the user is the one who actuay inputs the notes? A. Right. Q. Okay.
46 A. See both names there, that was me. Q. Right. So the user name is who guides as far as who actuay charted it? A. Right. Q. Got you. LMHC, is that Licensed Mental Health Counselor? A. Yes. Q. And LCWS, Licensed Clinical Social Worker? A. Yes. Q. Is Dr. Kyle a medical doctor? A. He's a medical doctor. He's medical director. Q. Medical director, okay. There were a few questions that Mr. Eis had asked you about some of the initial intake things, and then I guess there were a couple other foow-ups where he said was that a question that was asked, or an observation that they made, and you answered some of them most of the time it a question, or most the time an observation, something to that effect. Are you testifying in this case those specific examples that Mr. Eis asked you about you can say whether it was a question or an observation or are you trying to make an assumption? A. We, I mean I don't have the paper of that particular one.
47 MR. ELLIS: Do you want to show him one? MS. MANUELE: Yeah, a couple of the ones you asked him about. MR. ELLIS: The intake. MS. MANUELE: Like I think one was the suicidal or homicidal ideation. MR. ELLIS: I'm not sure what date she's looking at. I'm looking for the intake. A. BY Q. states, right? A. Q. A. Q. verbal. MR. ELLIS: I have a of them right here if you want to look through a of these. I found this one. MS. MANUELE: Okay. So if it specificay says patient you're assuming it's a response to a question, Right, that's the question. We, were you there? No. Or are you just hoping? Yeah, I was not there. Okay. Was it what he said? It just says states, would certainly seem
48 A. Right, that he's saying it. Q. Is it something that if it doesn't say states do we know if it's in response to a question or not? A. We, if it doesn't say states they can not answer that question because being sexuay abused, no, the patient has to respond. If asking have you ever been sexuay abused and he doesn't give an answer, the answer is you don't know. Q. Right. That's what I'm saying. And Mr. Eis had gone over another one that it didn't say states, and he asked you was that in response to a question or was that was denoting their observation? A. We, this is a question because he states. Q. Because it says states? A. Right. Q. I'm saying generay if it doesn't say states? A. Right. I see what you're asking. For that a question is asked. Any single patient that comes through booking they ask that question. Q. Right, the prea. A. Right. Q. There was a question about the same thing about whether there was delusions or haucinations, and he said was that something they asked him or was that an observation?
49 A. Oh, I see. Let me see what it says. Yeah, that's a question because you're asking the patient, are you hearing voices? If they say yes, then you ask, are the voices teing you to ki somebody? So they have to answer yes or no. Q. Right. You're assuming because there's a question there's an answer that somebody responded. Do you know if Mr. Jonchuck specificay answered these questions? A. I don't know, I was not there. Q. That's what I'm curious about, okay. The social workers and the mental health, the nurses that do the mental health stuff, you kind of supervise them, correct? A. For psych. Q. For psyche. The medical nurses you don't supervise, do you? A. No, I don't. Q. Okay. When you're not there, like on the weekends, would it be normal for you to you come back in if there's a patient that is on your regular route that you would review the notes from the weekend that were input? A. Yeah. We usuay, any mental Changes and behavioral Changes I am notified. Besides where they
50 write it down they usuay let me know. Q. Okay. So kind of like the observations that you weren't necessarily present for, would that have been something that you kind of discussed as a team? A. Right. Q. Okay. A. You know, for something like, oh, he's not taking his medication, or he's not eating, something like that, they let me know. Q. Okay. And you would ask the deputies casuay sometimes too what his status is and everything? A. Oh, yeah, they see him every day. Q. There was a question about the medications that were recommended on whether you had recommended psych meds, and you say you didn't think he would take them or didn't think he needed them or something? A. We, I believe he needs them. Q. That was going to be my question. Was it your opinion that he didn't need psych meds? A. No, no. Q. Okay. A. I believe he needed them in the beginning, but you know, the way he was behaving I knew he was not going to take them. Q. Got you.
51 A. He wouldn't take them. MS. MANUELE: I don't have anything else. MR. WILLIAMS: Nothing. FURTHER EXAMINATION BY MR. BOLAN: Q. One question as to Craig Wa, we talked about him earlier, would you say he's Cluster B? A. Oh, yes. Q. So antisocial people do ki their families sometimes then? A. That's a good question. Craig Wa, after being in prison before coming in here and being arrested multiple times. Jonchuck didn't have that history. I don't believe he was ever like in prison or anything like that. So, you know, somebody that's been in prison the whole time, Craig Wa, he was there before for years in prison for armed robbery and stuff, being arrested multiple times, that's different. Cluster B includes antisocial. Jonchuck, again, I didn't know him, it was not in his history being in jail or prison before. I didn't have the, you know, the knowledge to say he's that antisocial personality. You know, everybody make mistake, that doesn't make you antisocial.
52 Q. Okay. But you did think that he fit that personality disorder, you just wanted A. Right. Definitely Cluster B. narcicisstic or antisocial, you know, to narrow it down? You know, that's borderline histrionics of Cluster B. So I'm sure he's one of that Cluster. MR. BOLAN: Okay. I don't have anything else. MR. ELLIS: Thank you, Doctor. Appreciate your time. (Whereupon the taking of this deposition was concluded at 3:03 p.m. and reading and signing were not waived.) ********** Deposition Testimony of Dr. Jose Hernandez
53 CERTIFICATE OF OATH STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF PINELLAS I, the undersigned authority, certify that Jose Hernandez appeared before me and was duly sworn. WITNESS my hand and official seal this date: December 30, 2018. Kang/m/ Bayer KayLynn Boyer Court Reporter Notary Public State of Florida Deposition Testimony of Dr. Jose Hernandez
54 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF PINELLAS I, KayLynn Boyer, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographicay report the foregoing deposition of Jose Hernandez and that the transcript is a true record of the testimony given by the witness. I further certify that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' attorney or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financiay interested in the action. Dated: December 30, 2018. [@nger Bayer KayLynn Boyer Court Reporter Deposition Testimony of Dr. Jose Hernandez
55 ERRATA SHEET PAGE LINE ERROR OR AMENDMENT and REASON FOR CHANGE Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have read my deposition and that it is true and correct, subject to any Changes in form or substance entered here. DATE Jose Hernandez
'[1] - : '82[2] -4:10, 4:13 1[3] - 1:, :, :17 1000[3] - 1:13, 2:4, 2:8 10:04[1] - 38:2 10:19[1] - 9: 10:42[1] - :5 1 3:09 [1] - 35:4 3:39 [1] - :18 3rd [1] - 37: 455-5818 [1] - 1: 4 49th [5] - 1:13, 2:3, 2:8, 2:13, 2:17 4:53 [1] - 37:9 10:45[1] - :13 55[1] - 1: 10th [1] - 39:11 5:02 [1] - 263 11:51 [1] - 29: 5:09 [1] - 337 11th [1] - 39:9 5:16 [1] - 102 12:30 [1] - 30:13 5:29 [1] - 33 12th [1] - 39:6 5:48 [1] - 28:6 13th [1] - 39:4 5:55 [1] - 27:8 14[1] - :2 140[5] - 1:13, 2:3, 2:8, 2:13, 2:17 6 1 V3sn5 enzm-62q7a [3] - 18:10, :18, 51:17 6: [1] _ 26: -0066F-l - [1] 1:5 6:41 [1] _ 29:14 17 [1] - :13 18th [1] - :19 19 [1] - 26:12 1:49 [1] - 1:11 727m - 15 1stm - 37:16 2 [1] - 1:10 2I1I[1] - 37:9 20[1]- 12:11 201sp1y-6n9,73,9,10,5, 2 7:01 I11 - :2 7:19 [1] - 32:3 7:40 [1] - 37: 5 7 8 8[1]-7I3 8thBl-5fy9y10 :2, :13, :19, 26:12, 26:, 27:8, 28:6, 29:14, 29:, 30:13, 30:, 32:3, 9 33:4, 33:17, 35:4, 37: 9:28 [1] _ 30: 2018[3] - 1:10, 53:12, 54:18 9th [1] _ :5 20th [1] - 26: st[1] - 27:8 nd [1] - 28:6 rd [1] - 29:14 [1] - 29: 17 [1] - 28:20 th [1] - 30:9 th [2] - 30:13, 30:18 27th [2] - 30:, 32:3 28th [1] - 33:4 29th [4] - 33:17, 34:1, 35:19, 36:4 2:17 [1] - :19 3 30[3] - 35:4, 53:12, 54:18 30th[2] - 35:, 36:5 33762[5] - 1:14, 2:4, 2:9, 2:13, 2:18 33775[1] - 1: 3812[1] - 1: 3:03[2] - 1:11, 52:12 Deposition Testimony of Dr. A a[143] - 3:4, 3:11, 3:14, 3:, 3:17, 4:3, 4:5, 4:14, 4:, 5:, 6:1, 6:4, 6:10, 6:13, 6:, 6:18, 7:1, 7:8, 7:11, 7:18, 7:, 8:3, 8:7, 8:11, 8:19, 8:, 9:14, 9:16, 9:18, 9:, 10:5, 11:4, 14:1, 14:6, 14:10, :2, :3, :5, :, 16:, 16:, 17:1, 17:3, 17:14, 17:16, 17:19, 17:20, 17:, 18:9, 18:13, 18:, 18:, 18:, 19:8, 19:13, 20:17, 20:, :9, :, :3, :, :, :, :3, :, :, :20, 26:3, 26:8, 26:10, 26:12, 28:2, 29:8, 30:16, 30:18, 31:20, 32:1, 32:, 32:, 33:20, 34:1, 35:, 35:, 36:16, 36:18, 36:, 37:1, 37:5, 37:20, 38:8, 39:12, 39:18, 39:19, 40:3, 40:4, 40:13, 40:14, 41 :8, 41:, 41:, 42:6, 42:8, 42:19, 42:20, 43:5, 43:7, 43:8, Jose 43:10, 43:, 44:17, 45:3, 45:20, 46:10, 46:11, 46:12, 46:14, 46:, 46:18, 46:, 47:2, 47:, 48:3, 48:11, 48:13, 48:17, 48:, 49:2, 49:6, 49:, 50:4, 50:13, 51:12, 54:10, 54:12, 54:14 a.m[7] - 6:20, 7:4, 9:, :13, 29:, 30:, 38:2 abnormal [2] - 7:, 7: about[] - 4:3, 5:17, 12:20, 13:7, 13:, 14:2, 19:17, 30:10, 31:, 34:, 35:1, 36:13, 37:1, 41:19, 41:20, 44:, 44:19, 46:13, 46:, 47:3, 48:, 49:11, 50:13, 51:7 above [1] - : abused [3] - 8:16, 48:5, 48:7 accused [1] - :9 across [2] - 34:20, 34: acting [3] - 19:, 35:, 36:1 action [2] - 54:, 54:16 actions [1] - 38:6 actuay [3] - 27:1, 45:, 46:3 adduced [1] - 3:4 adolescentm - 4: after[4] - 3:4, 5:3, :9, 51:12 afternoon [2] - 36:11, 45:19 again [18] - 11:, 13:3, :11, :12, :18, :20, :, 28:8, 28:20, 30:14, 30:, 33:6, 34:19, 35:12, 36:, 39:, 43:20, 51:20 against[1] - :3 agency[2] - 3:17, 3:20 aggressive [2] - 19:10, :2 agitation [1] - 7: ago [1] - 20: agree [1] - 38:6 ahead [3] - 35:, 36:20, 45:16 alcohol [1] - 13:10 alert[2] - 10:1, :6 alive [1] - 19:6 al [14] - 10:9, 14:7, 16:13, 18:2, 20:12, 20:13, :13, :20, 30:6, 34:11, 35:, 42:2, 47:10, 47:11 aeged [1] - 40: aowm - 17:17 aowed [1] - :6 also [2] - 8:10, 35: always [4] - 34:, 36:1, 42:2, 43:8 am[5] - 39:14, 49:, 54:12, 54:14, 54: ambivalent[2] - 11:, 12:5 AMENDMENT[1] - 55:2 an [16] - 7:, 8:7, 8:12, 8:18, 10:10, 12:6, 20:, :, 40:11, 46:16, 46:18, 46:, 46:, 48:7, 48:, 49:7 analysis [1] - 43:6 and [162] - 3:4, 3:5, 3:9, 3:12, 3:, 3:, 4:1, 4:3, 4:4, 4:9, 4:14, 4:, 5:10, 5:12, 5:16, 5:18, 5:19, 6:9, 6:10, 6:19, 7:6, 7:17, 7:19, 7:, 8:17, 9:4, 9:9, Hernandez