Filing # 7828 E-Filed 09//2018 07:41 : PM IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SIXTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PINELLAS COUNTY, FLORIDA CIRCUIT CRIMINAL NO. l5-oo6cfano STATE OF FLORIDA, VS. JOHN N. JONCHUCK, Defendant. PLACE: HILLSBOROUGH COUNTY PUBLIC DEFENDER'S OFFICE 700 East Twiggs Street, 5th Floor Tampa, Florida 33602 DATE: April, 2017 TIME: :53 a.m. 11: a.m. REPORTED BY: Marcy K. Guincho Registered Professional Reporter Notary Public at Large 333 Third Avenue North, Suite 5 St. Petersburg, Florida 33701 (727)8984 7407 ***ELECTRONICALLY FILED 09//2018 07:41: PM: KEN BURKE, CLERK OF THE CIRCUIT COURT, PINELLAS COUNTY***
APPEARANCES DOUGLAS ELLIS, ESQUIRE PAUL BOLAN, ESQUIRE Assistant State Attorneys Office of Bernie McCabe, State Attorney Pineas County Justice Center, Room 00 0 49th Street North Clearwater, Florida 33762 Attorneys for the State JANE MCNEILL, ESQUIRE JESSICA MANUELE, ESQUIRE GREGORY WILLIAMS, ESQUIRE Assistant Public Defenders Office of the Public Defender, Bob Diinger Pineas County Justice Center 0 49th Street North Clearwater, Florida 33762 Attorneys for the Defendant FREDERICK A. HIGHAM, JR., ESQUIRE LAW OFFICES OF DiVITO & HIGHAM, P.A. 45 Central Avenue St. Petersburg, Florida 33711 Attorney for the Deponent
BARBARA GRAY, the deponent herein, being first duly sworn, was examined and testified as foows: DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. MCNEIL: Q. Good morning, Ms. Gray. My name is Jane McNei with the Public Defender's Office in Pineas County. I'm going to be asking you a few questions this morning. Could you please state your fu name? A. Barbara Gray. MS. MCNEILL: And could everyone in the room please go around and identify themselves for the record? I'm Jane McNei. MS. MANUELE: Jessica Manuele also with the Public Defender's Office representing Mr. Jonchuck. MR. HIGHAM: Fred Higham, H i g h a m, representing the witness. MR. WILLIAMS: Greg Wiiams from the Public Defender's Office. MR. ELLIS: Paul Bolan and Doug Eis from the State Attorney's Office. Q. Have you ever given a deposition before? A. Many, many years ago. Q. Just a couple quick things before we get started. I'm going to be asking you some questions this morning.
We have a court reporter who is taking down everything that we say. So I need your responses to be in an out loud fashion. Okay? Q. And if I ask you a question that doesn't make sense or you don't understand please let me know and I wi rephrase it. I am not trying to trick you or anything. I'm just trying to simply find out what you know about the case, okay. Have you taken any medications this morning? Q. Is there anything that you're suffering from or affecting you and your ability to give a deposition this morning? Q. So you have a Clear mind and you're good to go? Q. A right. You were on the witness list in the case against Mr. Jonchuck in Pineas County and the witness list says that you are or were affiliated with St. Paul's Catholic church; is that correct? Q. One other question, prior to coming into the deposition today have you consulted with anyone about what your testimony might be today?
No. You do have a lawyer present? A. Q. Yes. Is the lawyer who is present with you your personal lawyer or associated with the Church? A. Q. Associated with the church. Okay. Did you at some point work at St. Paul's Catholic Church? A. Yes. Vicars Q. maiden Do you sti work there? Yes. What is your job there? Administrative assistant. Administrator... Pastoral administrative assistant. And what do you do in the course of that work? I'm the right hand person of the pastor and of the church. Okay. Have you ever gone by any other name, or married name? Barbara Wiiams. And was that your maiden name? Yes. How long have you been Barbara Gray? Since 79, 37 years.
Q. Okay. And I'm not trying to embarrass you with this question but it's something I need to ask a the witnesses. Do you have any sort of criminal record or arrest record? A. Arrest, yes. Q. Where was that? A. In Hisborough County. Q. What was that for? A. Don't remember the Charges but it was having to do with a car. Q. Would that have been under your name Wiiams or Gray? A. Gray. Q. And can you remind me or te me approximately when that was? A. Twenty eight years ago. Q. Were you convicted of anything as a result? A. No, no. Q. And do you reca if it was a felony or a misdemeanor? A. I'm thinking a felony. Q. You said you were not convicted? A. Correct. Q. Did you do any sort of probation?
Q. You did probation? Q. Anything else that you've ever been in the court system for? A. Not that I remember. Q. I may have already asked you this. Do you sti work at the Church? Q. Back in January of 20 did you have any sort of interaction with someone known or later known to you as Mr. Jonchuck? Q. And can you te me about that? A. A phone ca requesting to see a priest. Q. Did you speak personay with Mr. Jonchuck? Q. Do you remember what day it was that you spoke with Mr. Jonchuck? Q. To try to narrow it down a little bit do you reca back in January of 20 learning on the news that Phoebe Jonchuck had been kied? A. I'm not Q. Do you reca seeing on the news on TV or in a newspaper or anything that Phoebe Jonchuck, the young
child, had been kied? Q. In reference to that, can you te me approximately when you received the phone ca from Mr. Jonchuck? A. The day before. Q. Okay. The day before. And do you remember approximately what time of day it was? Q. Do you reca anything that Mr. Jonchuck said on the phone ca? A. Just that he needed to see a priest right away and he needed an appointment. Q. Did you set an appointment for him? Q. When was the appointment? A. The next day. Q. The next day. And did Mr. Jonchuck come in the next day? Q. And did you see him that day that he came to the Church? Q. What, if anything, do you reca about seeing him?
A. That he looked disheveed and he had a little girl with him. Q. A. Describe for me what you mean by disheveed. He was wearing pajama pants and his hair wasn't combed. Q. And what about the little girl with him? Do you remember anything about her appearance? No, she was just cute, blonde. Did Mr. Jonchuck originay I guess interact with the Church? No, the front office. Okay. And then did the front office send him to little priest little office Q. They caed me and I came out. And did you then take him to the priest? I told the priest he was there and I took the girl because usuay when they go in to see the it's a private conversation. So we just took the girl into the director of religious education's and I showed him into see Father Bi. First starting with the little girl, did she say anything during your interaction with her? A. Q. A. No. How did she appear to you? Just a little girl.
Q. Nothing out of the ordinary? Q. Mr. Jonchuck, during your interaction with him, do you reca any statements, anything that he said? Q. Did he, if you remember, at any point refer to himself as God? Q. Did he ca anybody else God? Q. Did he at any point if you don't remember certainly not remembering is a fine answer, okay? Do you reca if he at any point referred to himself as the Pope? Q. Or ca anybody else the Pope? MS. MANUELE: Are you saying you don't reca if he did or are you saying, no, he didn't? Sorry. THE DEPONENT: I didn't talk to him. He was taken right into the pastor's office and that was the end of our interaction. So, no, he didn't say any of those things to me. Q. If somebody asked you to testify what did Mr. Jonchuck say that day he came to the Church could
11 you relay anything? Q. And you were not present for his conversation with the priest; is that correct? Q. After Mr. Jonchuck met with the priest were you involved in getting him into a room to speak with the Hisborough County Sheriff's deputies? Q. Did you know why the deputies were there? Q. Did they te you anything about why they were there? Q. Did you give them any information? Q. Did you overhear any of the conversation that Mr. Jonchuck had with the deputies? Q. Were you involved in any way in getting church paperwork to Mr. Jonchuck, like paperwork that you would fi out to become a member of the Church I guess? Q. Did you do anything with Mr. Jonchuck in terms of initiating a process whereby he could become baptized?
12 Q. Did you make any referrals for Mr. Jonchuck to any other Churches? Q. Was Mr. Jonchuck holding anything or carrying anything when you saw him? A. No, just a little girl. Q. Were you at any point asked to give a deposition in any civil case regarding Mr. Jonchuck? Q. Have you given any statements to any other law enforcement, state attorneys or anyone else? Q. If somebody wants to become a member of the Catholic Church is there sort of a procedure that they have to go through? A. The front desk gives them a welcome package and they fi it out. Q. Are you involved in that personay? MS. MANUELE: Jessica Manuele for the record. BY MS. MANUELE: Q. Did Mr. Jonchuck ever fi out a welcome package? A. I don't know. Q. How long have you been with the Church?
13 A. Going on 20 years. Q. The priest that was there that day that you walked Mr. Jonchuck back to speak with, is he sti with the Church? A. Yes, he's the pastor. Q. Okay. At the same location? Q. When Mr. Jonchuck had caed the day before requesting an appointment was that something did you say, you know, Okay. Your appointment is at X time, or was it just come by some time tomorrow afternoon or morning and you can see the priest? A. I don't reca. Q. Do you know is there a standard practice one way or the other? A. If it's an urgent matter we te them to come on in and whoever is there would be able to help them. Q. In this case specificay you don't reca if it was a set appointment or not? A. Correct. Q. The little girl that was with Mr. Jonchuck, did she talk to you at a? Q. Did she appear frightened?
Q. Did she appear upset? Q. Do you know how long the deputies were at the Church? Q. Did the deputies at some point ask you to bring the little girl out to speak with them? MS. MANUELE: I don't have any other questions. MR. WILLIAMS: I'm sorry. Just a couple quick questions. BY MR. WILLIAMS: Q. You saw Mr. Jonchuck when he arrived at the Church? Q. Did you see him leave? MR. WILLIAMS: Nothing further then. Thank you. CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. BOLAN: Q. So whose office was the little girl in? A. The director of religious education. Her name is Donna Koppy, K o p p y. Q. Was she in the office with the little girl? A. Yes, the entire time.
Q. Does she sti work at the Church? Q. Where is she now? A. I don't know. MR. BOLAN: I don't have anymore questions. Do you, Doug? MR. ELLIS: Guys? MS. MANUELE: I have a foow up for that. REDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MS. MANUELE: Q. Do you reca when she left the church, Ms. Koppy? A. Not the exact date. We have a new director now. Q. Okay. Do you know the reason she left? Q. Do you reca seeing on the news or in the newspaper when Phoebe was kied? A. I saw it in the morning TV. Q. Did you have any discussions with the pastor about what had happened? Q. So nobody in the Church ever mentioned that was the gentleman that was here earlier today or anything to that effect? A. Not the next day, no.
16 Q. Okay. Any time at a? A. Maybe a couple days after. Q. Okay. What was the extent of that conversation? A. They were in shock. Q. Did anybody based on seeing that and you know, that is kind of shocking did either the priest or anybody else at the Church bring up any observation they had of Mr. Jonchuck or Phoebe that would suggest they should have seen something different or knew this could happen or anything like that? A. No, we just relied on the expertise of law enforcement and if they let him go then they didn't see anything and there was nothing to worry about. Q. So more the discussion was kind of this is tragic and sad? A. Right. Q. What's your date of birth? A. May, 57. Q. Did you and the priest ever have any discussions about what the priest and Mr. Jonchuck had spoken about? A. No, that's under like a confession, private information and it's not divulged. Q. Like in law firms we can share information with each other. The Church is different? It's specificay reserved?
A. Correct, private conversation is not given out. MS. MANUELE: I don't have any other questions. MR. ELLIS: Put her as a read please. (Deposition concluded at 11:09 a.m.)
CERTIFICATE OF OATH STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF PINELLAS ) I, Marcy K. Guincho, RPR, certify that Barbara Gray, personay appeared before me and was duly sworn. WITNESS MY HAND AND OFFICIAL SEAL this MARCY K. GUINCHO, RPR Notary Public, State of Florida at Large MY COMMISSION # FF 70 EXPIRES: June 30, 20
l9 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER STATE OF FLORIDA ) COUNTY OF PINELLAS ) I, Marcy K. Guincho, RPR, certify that I was authorized to and did stenographicay report the foregoing deposition; and that the transcript is a true record of the testimony given by the witness. I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties, nor am I a relative or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financiay interested in the action. DATED this day of, 2017. MARCY K. GUINCHO, RPR
ERRATA SHEET STATE V JOHN JONCHUCK Case NO: l5-oo5cfano Deposition of: Barbara Gray Taken: April, 2017 Please read the transcript of your deposition and make note of any errors in the transcription on this page. DO NOT mark on the transcript itself. Please siqn and date this sheet and return to Morqan J. Morev & Associates, 333 Third Avenue North, Suite 5, St. Petersburq, FL 33701 within days. PAGE/LINE # ERROR/AMENDMENT REASON FOR CHANGE Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have read my deposition and that it is true and correct subject to any Changes in form or substance entered here. SIGN/DATE MKG Phone: 727 894 7407 Fax: 727 898 02 E mail: MoreyReporters@aol.com