Interviewee: Interviewer: Otha Jennifer Dixon TRANSCRIPT ROSETTA SIMMONS Interview Date: Wednesday, June 25, 2008 Location: Local 1199B Office Charleston, South Carolina Length: Approximately 32 minutes Otha Jennifer Dixon: For the record will you state your name please. :. OJD: Were you born in Charleston? RS: Charleston born. Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina. OJD: Do you mind telling me what year? RS: No. I don t tell my age. OJD: OK. My name is Jennifer Dixon and today is June 25, 2008. Is it the twenty-fifth? I think it s the twenty-fifth. RS: Yes, because yesterday was the twenty-fourth. OJD: I want to talk to you a little bit first about your background. You are from Charleston. Are your parents from Charleston? RS: Yes. OJD: What did your parents do when you were growing up? RS: My mother was a homemaker. My father worked for the highway department. He died when I was about eight months old. OJD: Was your mother involved in political activity? RS: No.
OJD: Not at all? RS: No. OJD: Was the strike your first introduction to political activity or social movements? RS: Yes. OJD: Going to school, you went to segregated schools or no? RS: I went to Burke View School. (1:14) Elementary on Calhoun Street. Yes, it was segregated. Burke, I m a Burkite. That s my alumni. We were totally African American. OJD: Ms. White mentioned that her neighborhood was integrated which I thought was really interesting. Do you live in a segregated neighborhood? RS: No, my neighborhood was integrated, also. OJD: Oh really? RS: I was born in Mt. Pleasant, but I was reared down --. Do you know where the auditorium is? OJD: [audibly responded with the negative] RS: Oh, you re not from here? OJD: No ma am. RS: It s Calhoun Street --. The Gilliard Auditorium, it s a big auditorium where they have a lot of affairs to and that s the area I grew up in. There was a local little grocery store, white owned and then there were white neighbors in that area also. OJD: Which is interesting, you didn t go to the same high school but you lived in the same neighborhoods. 2
RS: Right, well actually, Burke School was considered the school because it was an industrial school and run as a trade school. Grandmother --. My little bit of cooking experiences, I learned in home ec and also sewing. OJD: Was the hospital your first job? Where did you work before you started working there? RS: When I finished high school I worked in a home, a private white home. I didn t like that very well and so I left there and I started working at St. Frances Hospital in the housekeeping department. That was a little bit better but it still was not what I really wanted to do. I didn t think that, as far as my growth --. It was interesting because the sisters there, they saw potential in me. The lady that was the administrator of the LPN school was a Catholic. So they introduced me to her. I applied for LPN school. That s where I got my initiation, really, into working, going into training. That s where I went, right here in Charleston, Roper s School of Practical Nursing. Was chaired by, the administrator, Julia Walls, I will never forget her. White woman but she was so compassionate. I was young coming out of high school but (4:08). But she was so compassionate and saw potential in myself. I did not want to be cleaning nobody s floor other than my own. This is why I went into nursing school. OJD: When you finished nursing school, did you get a certificate? A license? How did that work? RS: A license. South Carolina in Columbia, passed state boards. OJD: Is that when you started working at --? It was called Medical College back then wasn t it? 3
RS: No, I started working at old Roper. It was a hospital. It was Roper Hospital, medical. Then there was two parts of Roper, the white Roper and the black Roper. I worked in the black area, until it closed down. OJD: When was that? RS: In fifty-nine. And then I went to Medical in the latter part of fifty-nine. I left Medical in 1965. OJD: This is the same hospital where they had the strike? Is this Medical College Hospital? RS: Yeah, Medical but I wasn t working at Medical when they had the strike. I was working at Charleston Memorial Hospital. That s where I was. OJD: Oh ok, right, I did read that. RS: I started work at Charleston Memorial in 1966 and the strike was in 1969. OJD: Going into the strike, Ms. Moultrie mentioned that you all spent over a year organizing before the strike even happened. Tell me a little bit about that. What that was like. RS: I got involved through a friend of mine, Mr. Isiah Bennett is how I knew about the organizing of Medical because I worked at Charleston Memorial. I attended that meetings that they were having and in so doing I was taking this information back to some of my coworkers. Since I was an LPN, I didn t know what was going on in the housekeeping department and the dietary department or other departments. In so doing, I found out that these people were having the same kind of complaints as some of the persons at Medical. So, I in-turn, started organizing Charleston Memorial Hospital. 4
OJD: In the meetings, you had them every week. They were having meetings every week. I understand that Mr. Saunders was heavily involved. I think I heard a Rev. Grant or Gant? RS: Harvey Grant. OJD: Harvey Grant. What were those meetings like? Can you help me understand or give me an example of what a meeting might have been like. RS: It was more like addressing complaints from the different areas because it was two hospitals involved. There were community people who were also involved. They all came together and saw that the need was that something needs to be done, because people weren t treated fairly and weren t treated as human beings, without respect. OJD: You were an officer. What was your position? RS: I was second vice-president. OJD: And Mr. Bradford --? RS: Jack Bradford was first. OJD: The timeline between the time that you all began organizing and whenever the SCLC and 1199 came in, did they come in together? Did one come in after the other? RS: I think 1199 came in first because the need for organizing was through a union which was Hospital Workers Union which was 1199 from New York City. They came in first. I think when it got really to the point where it heated up, I guess, we needed the community. You need powers to be that could handle these kinds of situations. OJD: Which was the SCLC? 5
RS: Right? OJD: Why not the NAACP? RS: I don t know and I really haven t given it a thought. I don t know how heavily they were here. When you flashback and just thinking about--. Why wasn t they --? They were locally here, assuming they should ve been the one that was but I don t remember them. I really don t. I don t how -- why they did not get involved. The ministers got involved, more than the NAACP here. I am sure they were organized. OJD: Talk to me a little bit about how it was, because that is a lot of people, when I sit and think about over 500 people and over 500 women. What was organizing that many people like? Ms. White mentioned that you all picketed in shifts. Who was in charge of that kind of organizing because that sounds like a well-oiled machine? RS: Mary and myself, we didn t have --. With 1199 coming, they knew about organizing, about shifting, about who to go where and how. Those responsibilities were actually the union s. OJD: The union was the one who organized it? RS: Um hm. OJD: The SCLC was in charge of --? RS: Motivating the community. Naturally, (10:41) you need somebody to enclose those people safely. OJD: Ms. White mentioned something about scabs. RS: We had, at Memorial, I know we did. It was brought to my attention that we did so we went out to prove that fact. And we did, we got together to meet at a certain 6
point, I was the driver, and to catch the persons who were going to work. Didn t let them know that we saw them. When they came to the meeting, they were exposed. OJD: What did that look like? How did you even handle that? RS: It was getting out of hand. We didn t mean to hurt anybody. The purpose was to let them know that you aren t really who you say you are. It almost got out of hand but we squashed it. OJD: During that time, were you married? Did you have children? RS: I wasn t married. I was with child. That child died. We came out March twenty-eighth, I believe. Twenty-ninth...twenty-eight. Then I had an early premature --. OJD: Oh, you were pregnant during this time? RS: I was pregnant. I had a premature delivery, April 2 nd. She died four days later. OJD: So in the midst of all of this you were pregnant. How long did it take you to get back on the line? RS: I came right back on. As soon as my prayers allowed me to get up, I came out and came back. OJD: That s amazing motivation. What was in your mind during that time because that s a devastating experience? RS: I was devastated because I lost my child. I stayed out for a while but I said it s God s will and I can t question the work of the Lord. I said my job is to get back out there, and I did. I just wanted to be a part of what we started. I said God s willing, I was able to get back out there. 7
OJD: I asked Ms. White about sacrifices and that s amazing sacrifice, personally, physically, --. RS: Financially. OJD: Absolutely. I was going to ask about that, financially, how was that for you because you weren t working. RS: No, being that was with child, I was saving. I wasn t really out on my own. My older sister and I lived together so, we shared shared in the plight that we were in. But I was always able to do my share because I had set aside X amount of dollars because I was with child saved a cut for that reason. That s how managed. OJD: How was it for other women who were single mothers and --? RS: The sacrifice was great. I can see why, to get a job, some persons should ve gone back to the hospital but I can see that plight. We were out for a long time. OJD: It was like a hundred days, over a hundred days? RS: One hundred thirteen days. Now that s Medical. Medical went back on June 18 th. Charleston Memorial went back on June, no July 18 th, everybody went back to work. I didn t go back to work until November 10, 1969. OJD: Why did you wait so long? RS: I didn t. What they did was, after we negotiated, that picture up there of me and Mitchell Graham, we negotiated, it fell through, and we negotiated again. Then finally said we ll take --. We had a hundred but they started fading away because of the longevity and we ended up with sixty-nine persons. They only rehired forty-two, so that left twenty-seven. I was among the twenty-seven. Since they realized that I was the agitated that I was going to be the last person --. They said I was not going to ever be 8
rehired back at Charleston Memorial Hospital. But in the meantime, while we were out, we organized, we registered rather, 800 plus persons registered to vote during that time. OJD: During the strike? RS: After the strike. OJD: After the strike. Oh, in between you not going back. RS: Those twenty-seven were never really rehired but they went and found jobs elsewhere. I didn t, like I said because I had prepared myself financially, because I was an LPN I was making more than a dollar and something an hour, naturally. But I didn t flaunt that either. I was with the cause and they were some instances, as far as LPN s were concerned versus the black and white, we still had some issues too. But in the meantime they said there weren t going to rehire me. My manager, who s white, where I was working, she had an eye out for me on the job. They hired an LPN after they wouldn t rehire me. So that called to let them know they were hiring an LPN and they said they didn t have an opening for me. He told me there wasn t. I gave him the person s name, the date, the place where she was rehired because my manager gave me the information. That was a Friday, they made room for me that Monday. November 10, I ll never forget the date, 1969. OJD: How was that, going back, for you? RS: I knew going back was not going to be easy. So, I prayed and I said I am not going to let this, meaning my mouth, get me in trouble, and I didn t. I went back to work. I was working seven to three on one day, three to eleven two days later, and eleven to seven in that same week. Three shifts in one week, which is against the hospital policy, trying to wear me down. I didn t work it. I worked two shifts and called in the third one. 9
I worked that way for about a month and a half. One day I said, you know what, work that third shift. I did and they stopped. OJD: So you didn t have any problems after that? RS: Well there was a little tension but like I said but I let this little thing in my mouth --. I let it rest. I prayed and I just did my worker. They knew I was a good worker. I had certificates of recognition in certain areas because I worked in a specialized unit. I worked in ICU. That s where I used to work. I spent fourteen years up there. OJD: So you went back to the ICU? RS: No, they did not put me back there. I guess they figured she is not going to go back there, we re going to put her on the floor. I started working around the regular floors, so it didn t bother me. I came there to do (18:53) work, that s what I was going to do and I did it to the best of my ability. So they didn t have any problem with my working. They didn t stand over my shoulder to make sure that what I m supposed to do that I m doing. Slowly, slowly, slowly it started fading away. OJD: You were there for a total of how long? RS: Twenty-nine years, total. OJD: So you retired --? RS: I retired in 1996 from Charleston Memorial. OJD: You were at Charleston Memorial for twenty-nine years? RS: Um hm. I left Medical in 65. I started at Memorial in 66. 10
OJD: You were there for many many many years even after the strike. Was there ever any tension between those individuals who were involved in the strike and those who were scabs, or those who were on both sides of the fence was there ever any tension? RS: A little bit. A little bit, naturally. We tried to let those who were going back in, naturally it s not going to be the same as you coming out. You have to look at where you are going to go if you need to work. They could back-ball you in certain ways trying to give someone else work. So what you do is go back into work until it gets --. When I went back to work, there were a couple of guys who had gotten in trouble on the job, they knew they were wrong. They called me down to the administration. We talked and I told them, in front of the administrator, when you re wrong, you re wrong and I am not going to come down here and try to right your wrong because you have to admit that you were wrong. And he was wrong, he apologized. I remember two occasions when they called me down there because they knew I was involved with the strike. OJD: Were you still involved in the union when you went back to work? RS: Yes, for a while. Everybody asks what happened to the union. Well, it s hard trying to manually obtain union dues, people could volunteer their dues to you. It was ok for a while, then it started fading, fading. You have to get it in your head they are not going to really pay voluntarily. If we could get the hospitals to take it out of their salaries there would have been a union today, but they didn t. This is not a union state. OJD: Talk to me a little bit about what the overall feeling was for people whenever the SCLC and 1199 came in. Were people welcoming of them? Were they excited about them being here? 11
RS: They were excited because they said we are in trouble and we need to help, here s help. It s coming in from all angles. They were welcoming. I never felt like they were uncomfortable jittery about somebody else taking over certain aspects. Robert Ford, our Senator, he was here. It was his first time here in Charleston because he was part of the SCLC and getting the community together, a community developer. OJD: Mr. Saunders mentioned something in the interview about a discussion about he and some of his colleagues that weren t workers that were involved in the strike or supporting you all in the strike there was a discussion about asking them to move out and let some other leadership move in. Do you know anything about that? RS: [Negative audible response] The only other person that I know of that was not a worker, Mr. Isiah Bennett, who got the union involved because he was a union organizer himself. Any other --. He wouldn t be involved on that level anyway because he organized the workers. OJD: I understand that so much of Charleston shutdown, people weren t shopping on King during the strike. How has the strike impacted Charleston? You would know more about this because you were born here. How has Charleston changed from then until now? It became a nationally known event. How has that changed Charleston? RS: During the strike, economically, it really hurt those pockets. It really hurt those pockets. When they finally felt it, it really got to the powers that be they said we ve better do something here because we are feeling the pinch of this in our pockets. Gaining anything, in some aspects I feel that persons who were involved felt more at ease and really letting people know how they feel and demanding respect and dignity for oneself. I am more relaxed now because I am older. I was never really a fighter but I didn t allow 12
people to intimidate me or talk to me in a condescending way. If I m right, I will go down swinging but if I m wrong then I am wrong and I apologize. OJD: I understand that you are involved now. 1199B has been revitalized and you all are doing work to try to organize sanitation workers? RS: We had a reunion last year, in February. (26:06) and two other ladies from the Charleston County library. Because of that there were concerns from persons who feel some pinches now in the hospital area. Although, they are mighty mighty scared for coming forward. They saw the need at that time to have us address these issues. The national president was here, Mr. Henry Nicholas and saw fit to see what s going to happen. OJD: People aren t as receptive? RS: I get frustrated, especially with the sanitation workers. We have eight-six almost a hundred cards signed. I don t know what they re afraid of. The time is right. They won t have to strike like we did. They are so afraid. Look at all the ladies who were out. I get so frustrated. Some of your black men are saying that independent African American women are something but we have to be. You won t stand up to the plate so we have to do ourselves. OJD: Wow, that s powerful. RS: I let them know. If I could do it why can t you? You all are supposed to be our protectors. And then you go run and hid behind me, you ve got a problem. OJD: Did you all have that since back then whenever you went out, in 1969, and stood in that line that you had to do it for yourselves because didn t have anyone else to do it for you? 13
RS: I feel that we as African Americans, especially, we have to come together. We have to stick together, men, women, and there weren t that many men. It was just us women, and so yes we had to stick together. OJD: There weren t many male workers out? RS: There wasn t that many men in the first place because the salary was so low. They couldn t take care of their families on that meager salary. OJD: I want to switch gears just a little bit and ask you if you know anything about the Tobacco Strike of the 1940s 1945? RS: No, from what I understand that song We Shall Overcome came from that, but no. I m not that old. [Laughter]. My friend my significant other, Mr. Bennett, he was involved in that. He would talk about bits and pieces about it. But I don t know much about it. OJD: At this point, considering all that you all went through, the more that I hear I have a better sense of the sacrifices that have been made, considering how fearful people are at this point with the work that you are trying to do in the community, what s going to have to happen to get people to come together again like that to address what needs to be done, what needs to change? RS: I don t know. We have meetings here every Friday. People from the community come in, ministers have been here, councilmen have been here, community persons have here and they re saying we re here we re here to back you guys. I want to take a baseball bat and use it. I don t know what it is and I don t know what you can do to let them know. They are having all kinds of problems, safety problems, and health issues. One of the guys, he was in my area where I live, this was three or four years ago, 14
he came to the meeting. He said I remember you. I said, you do? He said, yes, you came out when we were picking up the garbage. I was asking them about their health issues. Do me one favor, I said, whatever you do daily drink yourself a glass of milk. It s soothing for your insides and helps fight germs and bacteria. And he was told me that. I said, I do, I remember saying that. I said here you are right now, we re trying to organize you and you re just sitting back. I don t know what you are waiting for, something to fall on your head? Because help is here, I mean all around, help is here. The hospital workers, we just can t --. We ve tried, we ve tried. I know it s bad. I ve had family members in Medical and I tell you it s bad. And they know it s bad. Employees have to come to us. We can t go in and do it for them. They have to do it themselves. OJD: Thank you so much. RS: Are we finished? [Laughter] OJD: Yes. END OF INTERVIEW Transcribed by Otha Jennifer Dixon July 23, 2008 15