PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL. January 28, 2014

PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL The met on Tuesday, at 5:30 p.m. in the County Administration Center, 155 Indiana-Suite 205, Valparaiso, Indiana. Members present were Jim Polarek, Karen Conover, Sylvia Graham, Bob Poparad, Jim Biggs, President Dan Whitten and Jeremy Rivas who was not present at roll call. Also present was Attorney Scott McClure, Auditor Robert Wichlinski, Ryan Kubal, Michelle Lesniewski and Vicki Urbanik. Mr. Whitten called the meeting to order with the Pledge of Allegiance. Approval of Minutes Mr. Whitten, What s your pleasure with the minutes of November 26, December 17 and January 7? Mrs. Conover moved to approve the November 26, 2013; December 17, 2013; and January 7, 2014 minutes as received. Mrs. Graham seconded. First Reading Mr. Whitten, Any changes or discussion? Motion carried on a unanimous voice vote. Mr. Whitten, Minutes are approved. At this time Mr. Rivas joined the meeting. Mr. Whitten, Let s have First Reading, please. At this time Mr. Wichlinski read the Notice to Taxpayers. Resolution 14-1-27 Mr. Whitten, Thank you very much. If I may, just for a second, it seems to be the flavor of the week to be hearing the State of the Union addresses and State of the City addresses and I thought that maybe we would just have some numbers for the county as we move forward into this exciting New Year that we re going to call 2014. We are in the red, without question. I kind of want everybody to be on the same sheet of music with respect to our numbers. The budget that we passed for this year had out of it or in it hospital interest money at a little over $2,000,000; $2,020,000 that we pulled out of hospital interest that would accommodate social services; Opportunity Enterprises, Family Youth Services Bureau, Council on Aging, things like that and a $1,000,000 expenditure to 911. Also, in this year s budget we pulled $2,000,000 from unallocated CEDIT funds to shore up the General Fund expenditures. Those two alone are a little over $4,000,000. I had a meeting with Mike Anton and asked him some questions about our insurance. It s my understanding that the money we allocated for the insurance is about $2,500,000 short. So between the three of those we re about $6,500,000 give or take short on our budget. Of course, we ve plugged some of that with non-general Fund money, but that s being depleted. Also, as you all know the state cut us $2,800,000. If you add all those numbers together we re coming into this year about $9,300,000 short. We ve shorted up for about $4,000,000, like I said, between now and the end of the year. We ve got to find a little over $5,000,000-- $5,300,000 would be my estimate. Now, that s if we don t have any additionals, if we don t have any TIF ing going on. Maybe we can hope from a little help from the growth factor. Of course, we all know that there s this being bantered around down state to cut the business personal property tax. I m told that will cost us another $2,000,000 give or take if that occurs in the county. That, of course, would be devastating to us and I believe some of us have some resolutions here that we re going to get to in a second. That led me to wondering where are going to find the monies to plug the holes. I m told that, estimated, we have about $7,900,000 in hospital interest left. We have about $4,500,000 in unallocated CEDIT left. So we have two tasks ahead of us in my humble opinion. One is to plug the hole to get us to the end of this year, which I said is a little over $5,000,000, without any additionals, and then that takes us into 2015. If we did nothing else, I m thinking that we re probably somewhere in the area of 7 to $8,000,000 short, again, because I said $1,000,000 of that was a one-time expenditure to 911 that we allocated for this year. Well, we ve got about $160,000,000 give or take in hospital principal. We ve talked about moving that investment, Page 1

which we absolutely 100% have to do. That will do probably not a ton for us this year because the way investments work, if we were able to move that money immediately they have to be invested and then you have to start receiving the benefit of your investment and that just takes a little bit of time, but that s certainly something we have to do for the long-term future and we have to do it soon. Let s assume that we continue to make about $1,000,000 on our hospital interest money a year and let s assume we don t TIF our growth factor away with a backdoor tax, we re still stuck with that hole that we have to plug for next year. If we were somehow, and I ve heard numbers thrown around, that if we move our investments maybe we would be able to receive 5% return on our hospital proceeds investment, I m not sure that number is exactly accurate, but let s assume that we found some place that would do that, that would give us about $8,000,000 on our money give or take. That s not enough. My suspicion is that if we were able to pull $8,000,000 of our hospital interest money each year and spend every penny of it to operate government we would probably still have to cut government about $1,000,000 and that s not counting the personal property tax cut the state is going to hands us or hopefully they don t hand us, but they re contemplating handing us. So I want this board and this Council, as we move forward into this year, to understand that those are our two most pressing priorities. There are certainly other things that we have to deal with, but without question, those are our two pressing priorities. We have two ways of handling this year; we can completely deplete the unallocated CEDIT and then get into the hospital interest a little bit more. That seems like a bit of a fool s errand or we can mandate to the departments to do some cuts or we will cut for them. One of those two things has to occur. We certainly have to watch our expenditures with the additionals that are coming in front of us. Then next year, let s hope we find some money. Any questions? Mr. Biggs, I applaud your homework, Dan. It s really long overdue and we need to take this portion of this meeting and probably the next and determine exactly where we are going to start because taking it another two or three months to think about it or discuss it is just worsening the problem, so. Mr. Whitten, Thank you. Did you guys want to present the resolution? We have a resolution in front of us. Let s get it out of the way; it seems to be right on topic. Mrs. Graham, Right. RESOLUTION NO. 14-1-27 RESOLUTION OF THE PORTER COUNTY COUNCIL REGARDING THE PHASE-OUT OF THE PERSONAL PROPERTY TAX IN INDIANA WHEREAS, the is required to provide critical governmental services to residents and businesses; and WHEREAS, providing high-quality governmental services is essential to Porter County s economic development and continued growth; and WHEREAS, Porter County s ability to provide critical governmental services has been strained due to declining property tax revenue resulting from property tax caps; and WHEREAS, the property tax caps provide sufficient protections to property owners; and Page 2

WHEREAS, elimination of the personal property taxes is projected to result in a loss of $2.25 million for Porter County Government; and WHEREAS, a loss of $2.25 million of annual personal property tax revenue would have a significant impact on Porter County s ability to provide critical governmental services to residents and businesses; and WHEREAS, a phase-out of the personal property tax would result in an unfair shift of tax burden from businesses to residents. NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the : 1. Requests that the Governor reconsider the proposal to phase out the personal property tax; and 2. Requests that the Indiana General Assembly reject the Governor s proposal to phase out the personal property tax; and 3. Requests that any proposal to phase out the personal property tax should include a sufficient replacement for lost revenues derived from those taxpayers currently paying the personal property tax. PASSED AND ADOPTED by the this the 28 th day of January, 2014. s/dan Whitten, President s/karen Conover, Vice President s/bob Poparad s/jim Polarek s/jim Biggs s/jeremy Rivas s/sylvia Graham Mr. Whitten, Now, you ve heard my numbers and those don t include a $2,000,000 or a $2,250,000 hit on top of that. It would be devastating to this county. Mr. Rivas moved to approve Resolution 14-1-27 as submitted. Mrs. Graham seconded. Mr. Whitten, Any further discussion on this or any discussion on this? Mr. Poparad, Is the hit to the county, is that total or is that our share? Atty. McClure, Our share. Mrs. Graham, That s our share. Mr. Poparad, That s our share? What s the total hit to the county then? Atty. McClure, It s like 13% of the entire tax, over of the entire property tax revenue. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Atty. McClure, It s significant. Mr. Whitten, Any further discussion or questions? Let s get a roll call on this resolution, please. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Mr. Whitten, Thank you very much. We ll get this out to the powers that be. Sheriff s Department Recognition Mr. Whitten, Next on the agenda is a Sheriff s Department recognition. Sheriff? Sheriff Dave Lain, Thank you. I ll go over here so I don t have my back to your body. Sergeant Chavez, if you would join me up here. This is truly one of the great rewards that I get serving as Sheriff. I grow weary sometimes at reading in social media, not the Times or the Post or the Chesterton Tribune by the way, but about how police officers are viewed and sometimes the negative comments that I see about the way police officers do their jobs. Somebody will see a video and interpret it any number of ways so that the police officer seems to be doing less than a professional job. That s not fair. That s not what police officers do. This is what police officers Page 3

do. Tonight we re recognizing, and I won t embarrass him by using the H word. I think you ask any police officer if whatever they have done does that make them a hero and every police officer that I ve ever met would emphatically say no, absolutely not. I m just doing my job. There s a young lady that most definitely would describe Sergeant Jeremy Chavez as a hero to her and there s another person that would describe him as a hero, but she s not old enough to talk yet so it s going to take a while. Back on December 21 st, Sergeant Chavez was responding to a call that a young 2 week old, I believe? Sergeant Jeremy Chavez, Four weeks. Sheriff Lain, Four weeks old, okay. Make a liar out of me for two weeks, Jeremy. That s alright. But she was in distress, the mother was frantic and Sergeant Chavez was responding to help this young child who reportedly wasn t breathing. On his way there he sees a car flagging him down. It happens to be the mother with her young four week old child in the car seat in the back. Officer Chavez stops, gets the baby out, her name is China, get s the baby out, determines that she s not breathing; can t feel a pulse or breathing and starts CPR immediately. EMS personnel, did they arrive or did you continue on? Sergeant Chavez, They arrived. I did CPR for three minutes and then they arrived on scene. Sheriff Lain, And then took China, got her to the hospital and she s just fine. She s just fine. It s because Sergeant Chavez acted the way he routinely acts. This is just another day in the office to him, but certainly you can see for that family and for that little girl who now has the chance to do imaginable, wondrous things in our world we ll never know, but thanks to your quick action, your response to your training and your compassion that young lady is going to grow and hopefully take care of all of us in our old age. This, by the way, is not Sergeant Chavez s first time around the block--this is his second Lifesaving Award. We normally give a bar that he wears on his uniform, but he s already got one so he just gets a plaque. We don t let him get bard for every time they get the award because he d end up looking like some Peruvian Dictator. I just want to proudly read this and it is the Porter County Sheriff s Department Lifesaving Award is presented to Sergeant Jeremy Chavez for performing lifesaving CPR on a two-month old infant. I m very proud of you. It s an honor to serve with you and I m sure the people of Porter County feel much safer with you on the road. At this time there was a round of applause. Sheriff Lain, You have to say something. Sergeant Chavez, I m humbled by receiving this. I certainly didn t expect this much recognition. I just want to say, like the Sheriff said, I don t consider myself a hero. I did the same thing that any one of those guys over there that I work with would have done had they been the first one on scene, but I thank you. Mr. Biggs, No, thank you. Mrs. Conover, Thank you. Mr. Whitten, Well done. Mrs. Graham, I just want to say one thing. I ve given CPR a lot. Anybody that s giving CPR; you re trained and I thank you so much for not giving up. That first three minutes seems like it isn t that long, but that is long and thank you for persisting. Mr. Biggs, Actually, that s why we have her sitting next to Bob Poparad. First Amendment to Porter County Police Retirement Plan Mr. Whitten, First Amendment to Porter County Police Retirement Plan. Scott, do you want to explain this? Sheriff Lain, Chris, can you come up in case there s technical questions? Atty. McClure, My understanding of the proposed amendment is that it s adding a section to the Number 1.3 allows for the lump sum distribution. I think that s the plan to try and help the plan specifically with the retired group of people who are not necessarily lifetime police officers. It gives them the option to take the lump sum. My understanding is that the other changes have no, are minor tweaks, and don t have any financial or actual cost changes to the county. Page 4

Mr. Whitten, Sheriff? Sheriff Lain, And I think in the email when we sent those, I think I explained that it s really just, it kind of mirrors something that happens in PERF pension. My understanding is that that lump sum of that officers own contributions can be written up front with a single check; it kind of jump starts that retirement pay and then other payments will continue on. I did bring Chris Dilts who can explain any questions you might have. As I said, it doesn t cost the plan anything and we just thought it would be nice for some of the officers that have asked for it in the past and weren t able to obtain it. Mr. Biggs moved to approve the First Amendment to Porter County Police Retirement Plan as submitted. Mrs. Conover seconded. Mr. Whitten, Discussion? Questions? Mr. Poparad, Yeah, Sheriff, obviously me and you have been going back and forth on this for what, a decade? I guess I m a simple person. Mr. Dilts, let s use round numbers. Officer X has contributed X. Upon his retirement he gets that in a lump sum and his monthly benefit is reduced by Y if I m reading this right. Chris Dilts, Typically in your item here you would find in the amendment it says by the actual actuarial value thereof. Mr. Poparad, Right. Mr. Dilts, Very clear on all three points; it s in three different spots in here. Mr. Poparad, Okay. Mr. Dilts, So that amount would be if you ve ever done a lump sum calculation, if there s $1,000 it might get somebody $3 a month. Mr. Poparad, Right. Mr. Dilts, I m just making up a number. So if he gets $3 or if he receives $1,000 in refund of their own contributions then it would equal $3 less. So it s the same calculation that would go both ways whether it calculates the lump sum or calculates the monthly. I might point out only that there is no plan anywhere except the county Sheriff s Plan; all other plans are not allowed to ever hold anybody s own contributions. They must always be 100% vested. They must always be the employee s, and this is the only plan that doesn t allow it, and it only doesn t allow it in one place, and that s if you take monthly and that s what most of them take, so. Mr. Poparad, But isn t the, and we haven t talked in a while. Mr. Dilts, Sure. Mr. Poparad, If the merit officer takes out his contribution, and that is a number that they contributed, that takes away from the big pie. Mr. Dilts, No, it takes only away from their own pie. Mr. Poparad, But the plan is the pie, isn t it? Mr. Dilts, Yes. Mr. Poparad, Okay, so they take off their little slice, which they re entitled to. Mr. Dilts, They take off the same size slice no matter which way they get the benefit. Mr. Poparad, Well, what I m saying is if they take their contributions out doesn t the pot get a little bit smaller and in order to maintain the benefits for the rest of them we now have to generate a little higher interest or more contributions? Mr. Dilts, I follow your argument, the answer is no. It s based on, one of the things that we need to come back and talk about is this plan was written a long time ago, it is based on 7.5% interest assumption. The state has dropped theirs down way below that Page 5

Mr. Poparad, Right. Mr. Dilts, These guys still have to live with 7.5 so it assumes everything can make 7.5. The sooner you get that money out the less interest you have to earn. It s backwards of what you re thinking and when we get Mr. Poparad, Well, not to the individual, but for the health of the plan. Mr. Dilts, To the health of the plan if we can get any monthly out of there than anybody that s left, like you say, is required to earn 7.5%. Now we ve done very well four of the last five years and have beat that number, but if you look at a ten-year average nobody was making that in the mid-2000 s and we had three years that were losses of the first seven. Mr. Poparad, But the way I m reading this, if they get their contribution out they are still entitled to a defined benefit. Mr. Whitten, But it s reduced, right? Mr. Dilts, But by defined benefits, let s take an officer s defined benefit; it s $2,000 a month. Mr. Poparad, Right. Mr. Dilts, $2,000 a month; that s what they receive. Same thing in PERF except you now have the choice; do you want your money back in cash only and get $1,980 a month? So that is the only choice we re adding. Your point is clear. That means there is a little bit coming out of the plan and it goes to them all at once. If that money was left in there it is assumed that it will always make 7.5. If you get it out of there, there s no more requirement that it makes 7.5. So I m saying your thought is correct, as always, you know, that if there s a little less money in the plan that we have to pay in more, but because of the assumption you ll be better off both ways if you want to get into the intricacies of that small of a number. Anytime we don t earn 7.5 the County Council share would have to go up. Mr. Poparad, Right. I know at one time you made the comment to me that if the officer wanted a huge lump sum the plan was much better off by paying Mr. Dilts, The same thing even for a small one. Mr. Poparad, By paying them X and they re out of the plan completely. I don t mean this, Sheriff, we talked about this for years, the five-year vesting schedule; is that one of the things Mr. Dilts, It s currently eight. Mr. Poparad, I thought it was five? Sheriff Lain, Well, after we had established this I was going to suggest that we do want to sit down and go over the plan again, look at some options. Chris has actually devised an idea, a concept that would potentially save the county thousands of dollars that now go toward the plan. That s something that, I think, we d like to have a summit meeting, if you will, with any Council member that wants to be there, Mr. Wichlinski, Ms. Urbanik. I think it s a good idea that we look at things just as we ve talked about for a long time and that will (inaudible) this plan down a little bit. Mr. Poparad, Yeah. Mr. Whitten, So maybe, Bob, you d like to be that? Mr. Poparad, Yeah, I ve been with this for 10 years, yeah. Mr. Whitten, Anybody want to join him? Mr. Biggs, I do. Mr. Whitten, Alright. Mr. Dilts, And any of those questions that you have, if you d like to submit anything in advance we will get the answer from the actuary so it s not me saying it s this or this. We will get an actuarial valuation for your questions. Page 6

Mr. Poparad, Because defined benefit plans, which is basically what this is Mr. Dilts, This is, absolutely. Mr. Poparad, They re dying on the vine as fast as, you know, it s like you almost can t put enough money into them. I know at one time, who was the woman we met with? Mr. Dilts, Oh sure, yeah. Mr. Poparad, I forgot her name to be honest. Sheriff Lain, Elaine. Mr. Poparad, Elaine, yes. The bottom line is people are living longer. Mr. Dilts, Yes. Mr. Poparad, That s what s new. They used to figure 72 or 78 or 80. She said, this was five, six, eight years ago, she said we have to start figuring these people living to be 100. Mr. Whitten, Alright, if we can just get Bob and Jim, you guys can coordinate with the Sheriff a time when you can all kind of get together. Mr. Poparad, Can we, I mean, obviously this has been on the table for a decade, is there any reason we can t put this off and come back? I ll be more than glad to meet with them and, I mean, these changes, if we Mr. Biggs, My motion stands. I understand that, Bob, but I think what the man has clearly explained is that there is, that this does, that this plan or this program does not or cannot over obligate the bigger plan. Mr. Dilts, Correct. Mr. Poparad, Yeah, but I m going to reinforce my point; you agree when the lump sum payment comes out, however minuscule, that does have an aggregated effect on the health of the plan? Mr. Dilts, Helpful, not hurtful. Mr. Poparad, But it effects the health of the plan. Mr. Whitten, Yeah, but he s saying, I think what he s well, let s get a roll call on this. Mr. Poparad, I just thought we could work it all out at once. Mrs. Graham, Well, can I have one clarification? Mr. Whitten, Sure. Mrs. Graham, You said then that you re going to work; you re going to have this committee that works this out? Mr. Poparad, Yeah, I mean, I m not adverse to this. Sheriff Lain, The plan as a whole. Mr. Poparad, Yeah. Sheriff Lain, I m presenting this as a separate piece because it s something that we ve had a number of officers ask if they could get their money back and the answer always had to been no. If it had been under another plan they would have had it. We kind of want to level that playing field and then in the bigger picture we re very willing to talk about some of the other aspects of the plan to see how the whole pension could be addressed. Mr. Biggs, To save the county money. Sheriff Lain, Yes. Page 7

Mr. Poparad, Well, I m going to go back to the vesting; the problem is, based on Elaine, when the last time we met with her, it is not the 20-year guy; it is the 7-year guy that leaves and is entitled to $80 a month or whatever miniscule it is, but we have 300 of them and we have to plan out for 30 years. The biggest single problem with the health of the plan is not the 20-year and out guy or the 30-years and out; it is the six, seven, eight year guy. Mr. Biggs, Right, I understand that and I think this program does not jeopardize that. Mr. Dilts, It doesn t change this. This is a little one; that s why we asked for it separately. To your point; the committee meeting would be to talk about that and that interest rate assumption and tradeoffs to say fine, yes could we have this? And that s why we would need (inaudible). This is simple, fast and done and why we brought it separate. Mr. Poparad, I m not adverse to this proposal Mr. Whitten, I understand your point. Sylvia, did you get your answer? Mrs. Graham, Yes, that there would be further, you know, talk. Mr. Whitten, Any other questions? Let s have a roll call. Motion carried on the following roll call vote: Mr. Poparad - No Mrs. Graham - Yes Mr. Biggs - Yes Mrs. Conover - Yes Mr. Rivas - Yes Mr. Whitten - Yes Mr. Polarek - Yes Sheriff 1000-1005-05 Additional Appropriation $1,197.66 to 1130 Overtime Mr. Whitten, Sheriff, additional, $1,197.66 to 1130 Overtime. HIDTA/USMS. Mr. Biggs moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Sheriff 1000-1005-05, the amount of $1,197.66 to 1130 Overtime. Mrs. Conover seconded. Mr. Whitten, Discussion? Let s have a roll call, please. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Mr. Whitten, Thank you, Sheriff. Have a good evening. Make-A-Wish Foundation Charity Event Mr. Biggs, Just one more thing before you go; you re involved in some kind of program with the Make-A-Wish Foundation where you re going to box three rounds. Sheriff Lain, I am. Mr. Biggs, Could you tell us a little bit about that? I m curious as to who she is. Sheriff Lain, Well, Councilman Biggs, since you brought it up, yeah, there actually is a fundraising event that s taking place April 5 th at the Hammond Civic Center and it is the 911 Slug Fest. It pits police officers from all over Northwest Indiana against firefighters. It s our two fraternities duking it out. What, actually, Chief Lawrence suggested was, I m not sure why he suggested it, but Steve said, Sheriff, I think you should box. I think he just wants to see me get pummeled, but it is with the intent of raising a lot of money. I m pretty confident that we can raise thousands of dollars extra above what the event is designed to raise for Make-A-Wish and that s where the proceeds are going from this event. Mr. Poparad, Do we get to sponsor you, maybe? Sheriff Lain, You can sponsor me. Mr. Poparad, Which way, up or down? Page 8

Sheriff Lain, I am no stranger to the ring. Although, I don t have a great memory because it s been 40 years, but I think I want to see if I still got it and we re going to have fun. We have a lot of officers that want to participate and we re just going to go and have a good time and raise money for a great cause. Mr. Biggs, If we wanted to support that cause how would we go about that? Sheriff Lain, Well, you would let us know. We re still actually, this is new, we re not ready yet, but if checks can be written to the Sheriff s Department Donation Fund; it s our intent to present a big check when we show up that night. We ll have everything funneled probably through my Assistant, Wanda. We re going to advertise this pretty extensively so stay tuned for now, but yeah Mr. Biggs, Where is this going to be held? Sheriff Lain, It s going to be at the Hammond Civic Center on April 5 th, which is a Saturday night. You all come and we re really going to have fun. Mrs. Conover, Who are you sparring with? Sheriff Lain, I have no idea. They ll have to find some old fat guy who s a firefighter. No, we re going to have fun. I m actually going, I haven t called him yet, but I m actually going to try and get the guy that taught me to box 40 years ago to be in my corner. Mr. Poparad, I bet he s in good shape. Sheriff Lain, John Saylor was a middleweight champion years ago so I hope it s not him. Mr. Polarek, You re not boxing in the middleweight class, obviously. Sheriff Lain, Well, probably not, but, hey, it s not until April so maybe by then. Mr. Biggs, Let us know. Mr. Whitten, Thanks, Sheriff. Sheriff Lain, Thanks so much. Thanks for the ad. Mr. Whitten, Have a good evening. Commissioners 1000-1030-30 144 Form Jail Museum Director from $33,650 to $40,000 Transfer $1,800 from 2350 Building Maintenance to 2220 Uniforms & Clothing Mr. Whitten, Commissioners 1000-1030-30, there s a 144 Jail Museum Director from $33,650 to 40 and then there s a transfer of $1,800 from 2350 Building Maintenance to 2220 Uniforms & Clothing to purchase jeans and boots for facility service/maintenance employees. Mrs. Graham moved to amend the 144 Form as submitted by Commissioners 1000-1030 -30; Jail Museum Director from $33,650 to $40,000 and grant the request for transfer of funds, the amount of $1,800 from 2350 Building Maintenance to 2220 Uniforms & Clothing. Mrs. Conover seconded. Mr. Whitten, On the 144 and transfers? Mrs. Conover, Yes. Mr. Whitten, Discussion? Let s get a roll call, please. Motion incomplete on the following roll call vote: Mr. Rivas - Mr. Rivas, Well, I mean, since it s together I have to vote no on it, but it s because of the 144 and the raise. It s not the transfers. Page 9

Motion carried on the following roll call vote: Mr. Rivas - No Mr. Whitten - Yes Mr. Polarek - Yes Mr. Poparad - Yes Mrs. Graham - Yes Mr. Biggs - Yes Mrs. Conover - Yes Hospital Trailing Liability 4901-0000-30 Additional Appropriation $350,000 to 3420 Building/Liability/Comp. Coverage Mr. Whitten, Hospital Trailing Liability, additional $350,000 to 3420. It s a bookkeeping error; not posted to Gateway. What s your pleasure? Mr. Polarek moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Hospital Trailing Liability 4901-0000-30, the amount of $350,000 to 3420 Building/Liability/Comp. Coverage. Mr. Poparad seconded. Mr. Whitten, Any questions or concerns? Mrs. Conover, I just don t know, I don t understand why there s all these. We ve already done all of this and not posted to Gateway. What does that have to do with tonight s meeting? Why is this coming before us again? Mr. Biggs, That s a good question. Mr. Whitten, Yeah, Vicki, go ahead. At this time Mr. Poparad left the meeting. Ms. Urbanik, These were, these three were properly advertised, but they weren t posted to Gateway and the Auditor s office asked, just to be safe, if we could bring it up before the Council. That s why they re on the agenda. Mr. Biggs, Better to be safe than sorry. Mr. Whitten, Do you agree with that, Auditor? Mr. Wichlinski, Yes, sir. Mr. Whitten, Okay, any other questions on this? Let s get a roll call. Motion incomplete on the following roll call vote: Mr. Polarek - Yes Mr. Poparad - Mrs. Graham - Yes Mrs. Conover - Yes Mr. Whitten - Yes Atty. McClure, He left the room. Mr. Whitten, Elvis has left the building. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Hospital Interest 4902-0000-30 Additional Appropriation $1,000,000 to 3950 Contractual Services $50,000 to 3962 Assn. Retarded Citizens $600,000 to 3963 Youth Service Bureau $370,000 to 3981 Council on Aging Hospital Proceeds 4903-0000-30 Additional Appropriation $1,045,417 to 3950 Contractual Services Page 10

Mr. Whitten, Hospital Interest, additional, same stuff; $1,000,000 to 3950, $50,000 to 3962, $600,000 to 3963 and $370,000 to 3981 Council on Aging. Bookkeeping error; not posted to Gateway. Mr. Rivas, Can we move to approve the next two additionals, the Hospital Interest and Hospital Proceeds, based upon that they re bookkeeping errors? Mr. Whitten, If that s your desire. Mr. Rivas, That s my desire. Mr. Rivas moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Hospital Interest 4902-0000-30, the amounts of; $1,000,000 to 3950 Contractual Services, $50,000 to 3962 Assn. Retarded Citizens, $600,000 to 3963 Youth Service Bureau and $370,000 to 3981 Council on Aging and grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by Hospital Proceeds 4903-0000-30, the amount of $1,045,417 to 3950 Contractual Services. Mr. Biggs seconded. Mr. Whitten, Any further discussion on these? Hearing none, let s get a roll call. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Mr. Polarek, Quick note, though, since it s proceeds Mr. Poparad has to vote on that, right? Because it has to be 10-0 on proceeds. Mrs. Conover, It s interest. Mr. Whitten, But didn t he already vote on it? Didn t we vote on this before? Mr. Polarek, I just don t us to have to Mr. Rivas, He may be right. Mrs. Conover, You re right, good catch. Mr. Wichlinski, You voted on this as part of the budget process. You re just voting on it again because it wasn t posted into Gateway. Mr. Biggs, So he s on record for voting for it. I don t remember his vote. Mr. Wichlinski, We have that, but, I mean Mrs. Conover, We re doing this all again anyways. Mr. Whitten, We ll ask him when he comes back Mr. Polarek, When he comes back in from his smoke break. CEDIT Improvements Right of Way 1112-2070-30 Additional Appropriation $21,086.56 to 4320 Roads & Taxiways Mr. Whitten, CEDIT Improvements Right of Way, additional $21,086.56 to 4320 Roads & Taxiways. 2013 active Highway projects not completed. What s your pleasure? Mr. Rivas, Where are the Commissioners? Are they absent today? Mr. Biggs, This is Highway. He s right there. Mrs. Conover, Al s here. Mr. Biggs moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by CEDIT Improvements Right of Way 1112-2070-30, the amount of $21,086.56 to 4320 Roads & Taxiways. Mrs. Graham seconded. here? Mr. Whitten, Do you have any questions of Al? Is there anything we need to know about Page 11

Al Hoagland, This project was put on hold due to the fact that we already had signed a contract to pave 700 North and then the process of getting the project underway we found out Portage Township had made an agreement to (inaudible) people and their property and there was just absolutely no way to do that job and not destroy the road, so we cancelled it. Mr. Whitten, Understood. Mr. Rivas, Are you going to, Al, be able to do the striping then around that intersection on 700 North by the fire station once you get through there? Mr. Hoagland, Once it gets above 50 degrees we ll be on it. far. Mr. Rivas, Thank you very much and thank you for everything you ve done this winter so Mrs. Graham, Exactly. Mrs. Conover, Yes, yes. At this time there was a round of applause. Mr. Hoagland, I just answer the phones. Mr. Whitten, Let s get a roll call. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. CEDIT Special Projects 1112-2090-30 Additional Appropriation $135,780 to 1130 Overtime $500 to 2120 Office Fixtures under $100 $2,500 to 2250 Other Supplies $24,720 to 3130 Training & Education $2,500 to 3210 Travel $350,000 to 3220 Telephone $150,000 to 3610 Maintenance Agreements $5,000 to 3630 Equipment other than Vehicles $1,000 to 3930 Dues & Subscriptions $1,318,000 to 3950 Contractual Services $5,000 to 4440 Furniture/Fixtures over $100 $5,000 to 4540 Other Equipment Mr. Whitten, CEDIT Special Projects, there s a string of additionals here; $135,780 to 1130 Overtime, $500 to 2120, $2,500 to 2250, $24,720 to 3130, $2,500 to 3210, $350,000 to 3220, $150,000 to 3610, $5,000 to 3630, $1,000 to 3930, $1,318,000 to 3950, $5,000 to 4440, and $5,000 to 4540. Approved budget exceeded advertised figure. What s your pleasure? Mr. Rivas, Does Vicki have something? Ms. Urbanik, If I may. Mr. Whitten, You certainly may. At this time Mr. Poparad joined the meeting. Ms. Urbanik, Okay, the reason why these are before you is because, you might recall during budget hearings, the Commissioners offered $2,000,000 to take over the $1,300,000 jail medical contract and the 911 costs. Now, the next item on the agenda, the next two items, deals with 911. After the budget was adopted John with 911 said that he could handle moving two of those items, Overtime and Training & Ed, into his other funds. So the question before you today is whether you just want to reaffirm what you did during the budget hearings, keeping Overtime and Training & Ed in CEDIT or take those out of CEDIT, potentially freeing up CEDIT for something else, and moving Training & Ed and Overtime into his other two 911 funds. This is something that came up after the budget adoption. It doesn t change any of the final, well, the overall net numbers. So basically the first part is what the Commissioners offered and what you approved. The only reason it s before you is because the total CEDIT came to $5,700,000 and that was above the advertised amount. Page 12

Mr. Whitten, So the CEDIT Special Projects, the additionals I just read, are what we already approved, correct? Ms. Urbanik, Correct. Mr. Biggs, How much over what we advertised is this? Ms. Urbanik, The original advertisement was for, as the Commissioners submitted, about $4,800,000. Mr. Biggs, And this is what? Ms. Urbanik, Well, this is just $2,000,000, but the total CEDIT came to $5,700,000. Mr. Whitten, But I don t understand; we re not going to bring in $5,700,000 in CEDIT funds, right? Mr. Rivas, No, 4.6? Ms. Urbanik, 4.8. Mrs. Graham, Yeah, 4.8. Mr. Rivas, So we re spending over $1,000,000; we re dipping in even further, the reserves. Mr. Biggs, John Mr. Rivas, Will you and the Commissioners come up here and help us out? John Jokantas, Me and all my friends. Mr. Biggs, Is there, if I may Mr. Whitten, Does this have to be done? I guess we have some questions of the Commissioners on this. Does this have to be done at tonight s meeting or do you have some sort of Mr. Biggs, Or is it something that can wait until the next meeting? Mr. Jokantas, Well, my phone bills are going to be overdue soon. Mr. Whitten, So why don t we Mr. Jokantas, Really, my phone bills are the biggest one out of them. The Overtime, we can discuss that. I do have the money in Surcharge to take that over, if necessary. We don t necessarily need to move it to Rainy Day. I would do that in February, at the February meeting. We have a little bit of a surplus in the Surcharge Fund because we ve been rather smart at spending it, but, you know, desperate times call for desperate measures, so. Mr. Whitten, So, Vicki, if we, or Bob, if we approve what I just read, the additionals that I just read through, that would just reaffirm what we already voted on? The next two things are a change in what we ve approached? So maybe what we want to do is, so if we voted on the first and tabled the next two what result would that be? I mean, if we vote on the first do we kill the next two or do we basically, essentially it s one or the other? Is that right, Scott or Vicki or Bob? Anyone? Mr. Rivas, A lot coming from over there. Atty. McClure, Okay, the one you read, Dan Mr. Whitten, Yes. Atty. McClure, Is what we approved in CEDIT projects. Mr. Whitten, Yep. Page 13

Atty. McClure, The next two requests modify that to some extent. There is nothing stopping us coming back at our next meeting and reducing the CEDIT appropriation and moving things around. If we do the first one that you just read we would not do the next two. Mr. Whitten, But we could come back and modify later if we so desire? Atty. McClure, You can come and modify, yes. Mr. Whitten, Does everyone understand that? I don t want his phone bills to be late. We can come back later and readdress this. We won t deal with the next two things; we ll just table them off until February until the Commissioners are here. Mr. Biggs, And that will keep us from approving an amount of money that exceeds our expectations of what we re going to collect next year? Mrs. Conover, No. Mr. Polarek, No. Mr. Whitten, No, absolutely not. Mr. Rivas, We re going to approve that excessive amount right now. Mr. Whitten, But we can come back. Mr. Rivas, He needs that money. Atty. McClure, We already approved that. Mr. Whitten, Yeah, that was part of our budget. Atty. McClure, That was part of the CEDIT project. Mr. Whitten, Understand that our short-sheeted budget already contemplated that. Mr. Biggs, I didn t vote for that budget. Mr. Polarek, Yeah, you re on your own there. Well, not you, but Mr. Biggs, I understand, but, and John and I have been talking about half a dozen times over the last couple of weeks and the Council and the Board of Commissioners need to have a special meeting or two to come Mr. Whitten, We re going to get into that; we re going to coordinate that before we leave this building. So, I guess, my question for the board, and it s up to us, we can do none of this tonight or we can do some of it tonight or we can decide all of it tonight or we can just leave. Mr. Polarek, I take it the top additional there on the CEDIT, since it matches the Rainy Day, that s Overtime for your department. Mr. Jokantas, That s correct. Yeah, the only thing that isn t mine is the $1,300,000 of the Contractual Services. I d love to have that. Mr. Polarek, Well, maybe we just approve all of it except the 1.3 of Contractual and have the Commissioners come back and explain it. Mr. Jokantas, $19,000 of that is mine, but that s part of the Jail, I think. Ms. Urbanik, The jail medical contract, the 1.29, is lumped in with your Contractual. Mr. Biggs, I think Councilman Polarek makes a very good proposal in that we forego the contract, contractual portion of the cost and let s deal with the Commissioners with that and go ahead and approve the rest of it. Mr. Jokantas, Sure. Atty. McClure, No, no, no, no because the $1,318,000 is not just 911. Page 14

Mr. Jokantas, That s correct. Atty. McClure, That s also the entire jail medical contract. Mr. Polarek, Oh. Mr. Whitten, Yeah. Mrs. Graham, How did these get lumped? Mr. Whitten, Go on, Bob. Atty. McClure, Because it s in the one Mr. Whitten, Hold on, Scott. Go on, Bob. Mr. Wichlinski, We need this to pay bills. Mr. Whitten, Yes, now Scott. That says it all. Go on, Scott. Atty. McClure, This CEDIT Project not only had 911 money in it, but it had the jail medical. Mr. Whitten, So what we could do is we could revisit this. We could pass this, but we can always come back next month and adjust it. Atty. McClure, The only confusion is that this is what we passed at budget time. The confusion is that now, at looking at things after a while, there are a few things that we can take out of the CEDIT Plan for 911 and put it into his fee budgets. Mr. Whitten, Right. Atty. McClure, That s why we have two options; so that s why the Overtime amounts match. So we could say Mr. Jokantas, As well as the Training. Atty. McClure, As well as the Training. We could approve the first request without the Overtime and the Training and then go down here and do the additionals and that would work or just do the CEDIT request. What we would be doing if we did that, if we said we were going to approve the CEDIT additional without the $135,780 in Overtime and the $24,720 in Training & Ed, it would just reduce the amount of money we re spending out of the CEDIT. He thinks he can absorb it out within his fee based budget. Mr. Whitten, One thing I d like to do is, Michelle, would you please send a letter out to the Commissioners that says anytime a Commissioner request is in front of us somebody has to be here. John or Laura has to be here to explain it. Mr. Rivas, What about Nancy? Mr. Whitten, I mean, come on. So we need to have someone here that can explain it to us; what they re asking for and what they re looking for and the consequences of their request one way or the other. Mr. Biggs, How does the board feel about, I ll motion to approve as presented, and with the caveat of the Commissioners coming to our next meeting to talk about what needs to be adjusted. Mr. Biggs moved to grant the request for additional appropriations submitted by CEDIT Special Projects 1112-2090-30, the amounts of; $135,780 to 1130 Overtime, $500 to 2120 Office Fixtures under $100, $2,500 to 2250 Other Supplies, $24,720 to 3130 Training & Education, $2,500 to 3210 Travel, $350,000 to 3220 Telephone, $150,000 to 3610 Maintenance Agreements, $5,000 to 3630 Equipment other than Vehicles, $1,000 to 3930 Dues & Subscriptions, $1,318,000 to 3950 Contractual Services, $5,000 to 4440 Furniture/Fixtures over $100 and $5,000 to 4540 Other Equipment. Mrs. Graham, Aren t we overspending, though? Page 15

Mr. Whitten, We already did that, we already did that. Unfortunately, we already did that. Mr. Biggs, He has bills that he has to pay. Mr. Whitten, So, Scott, what do you think about that suggestion? Atty. Scott McClure, That s fine. to. Mr. Whitten, And we can come back in February and we can adjust it again if we wanted Atty. McClure, We could. Mr. Rivas, So do you want to put it on the agenda right now? Just say it s on the agenda for next month. Well, whatever. Mr. Whitten, Well, we re going to table these other two things. Mr. Polarek, Well, we don t even need Mr. Whitten, I want them on the agenda. Mr. Polarek, I just want to make a mention on that 911 Rainy Day, obviously, that s a fixed amount; once it s gone it s gone. Mr. Jokantas, Right, well, that was going to be my suggestion that if you re going to approve, if you re going to approve the Overtime out of Rainy Day, remove it from the CEDIT, I just need about $25,000 just to make sure because we have a large training thing going on. Then we ll come back in February, we ll take whatever amount we need for the remainder of the year out of Surcharge. Mr. Whitten, Okay. Mr. Jokantas, That way it gets it out of CEDIT, it gets it out of Rainy Day and then it puts it into the Surcharge where we do have enough money to cover it this year. Mrs. Conover, John, is it not true that if we aren t spending our surcharge money and the state has a whirlwind of extra money down there that they promised to allocate X around the state and they have extra we won t get anything unless we have Mrs. Graham, Good point, good point. Mr. Jokantas, We ll get it; however, it doesn t, you know, we want the surcharge to increase, obviously, we all do. Mrs. Conover, Yes. Mr. Jokantas, And the money that we had put away was earmarked for a project last year that we ended up having to take out of Rainy Day. So, now, that money is now sitting there and there s a secondary project that this year we wanted to pay for out of surcharge and I still don t have an answer from down state on whether or not I can do that one out of surcharge. So this money keeps on building while Rainy Day keeps going down. So I would prefer that we take the Overtime and Training out of Surcharge and start spending it. Mrs. Graham seconded. Atty. McClure, And we can t do that, what you just said, we can t do at this meeting because it s not what it s advertised at. Mr. Jokantas, Right. Mr. Whitten, So here s what I would suggest; we have a motion and a second on the floor to approve the additionals I ve just read through, understanding as we move through this roll call, yay or nay, that we can come back in February and we can adjust those things and have some answers and suggestions and advertise whatever we need to advertise to, alright? Now, with that in mind, let s get a roll call. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Page 16

911 Rainy Day 1186-1000-31 Tabled Additional Appropriation $135,780 to 1130 Overtime E-911 Surcharge 1222-0000-3 1 Tabled Additional Appropriation $24,720 to 3130 Training & Education Mr. Whitten, Thank you. I would ask for a motion to table the two additionals. Mr. Polarek moved to table the request for additional appropriations submitted by 911 Rainy Day 1186-1000-31, the amount of $135,780 to 1130 Overtime and table the request for additional appropriations submitted by E-911 Surcharge 1222-0000-31, the amount of $24,720 to 3130 Training & Education until the February County Council meeting. Mrs. Conover seconded. Mr. Whitten, Give me a roll call. Mr. Jokantas, John s over here begging. Mr. Jokantas, Can we move the Overtime into the Rainy Day for now and then come back next month or did you approve it in CEDIT? Mr. Polarek, It s approved in CEDIT. Mrs. Conover, It s approved. Mr. Jokantas, It s approved in CEDIT? Fantastic. Mrs. Conover, Yeah, it s approved. Mr. Jokantas, Okay, good deal. I m happy. Mr. Whitten, Let s get a roll call to table the next two items. Motion carried on a unanimous roll call vote. Mr. Whitten, So whatever suggestions you ve got or thoughts or requests make sure we get those on the agenda for next month. Mr. Jokantas, Oh yeah, they will be. I ll be for a few things next month. Mr. Whitten, Alright. 911 Funding Discussion Mr. Biggs, Before you go, John, I just wanted to point out that it was in the news, the media reported that the Town of Chesterton and the Town of Porter has combined their dispatching systems. Mr. Jokantas, That is correct. Mr. Biggs, That s why, and being the 1 st District Representative, I think we need to have a serious conversation about those municipalities incorporating their own costs for their own operations while at the same time having to pay for the dispatching for other municipalities outside of their corporate boundaries. I think that needs to be more balanced. If right now, if Chesterton, if the Town of Chesterton, and you correct me if I m wrong, were to turn over their dispatching to us we re probably talking another $300,000. Mr. Jokantas, Correct because we have to hire additional people plus put in additional consoles. Mr. Biggs, Right. We must have a serious conversation with the municipal leaders on how, what s best for all of us concerned and how we re going to fund this consolidation in the future. Page 17

Mr. Whitten, That s a great idea. Actually, in the years past, reached out to them and, of course, the response wasn t always what one would hope, but it was certainly what one would expect. Mr. Biggs, But your opening statements, Dan, I think, paint a very clear picture as to our situation, as well. Mr. Whitten, Right. Mr. Biggs, So the days of us acting like Santa Claus are over. Mr. Jokantas, Yeah, I believe, the CEDIT project is good for four years; this current one. I think that the worst thing that we could probably do is go to the municipalities and say, hey, you got to take $300,000 out of your budget next year to pay for 911. If we use a combination of the CEDIT and then a percentage and just increase that percentage over the years so it becomes more tolerable for those municipalities Mr. Biggs, Nobody up here wants to put any of the municipalities in a situation that they re going to lose it, but we are not going to know where that medium is until we all sit down and start talking. Mr. Whitten, Okay, so what I would suggest, if we want to pursue that thought, is that go talk to them. Mr. Rivas, Well, as the 4 th probably include Winfield too. District Representative, I think that conversation should Mr. Jokantas, Yes, Winfield and Eagle Creek. Mr. Biggs, Yes, actually that s a Mr. Whitten, So let me ask you this question, Councilman Rivas, your constituency in the Town of Kouts; how do they feel about this? Mr. Biggs, No, in all seriousness, I mean, that is a really just to give everybody an understanding of how lopsided or how much work needs to be done here. We currently provide free dispatching, emergency dispatching, for the Winfield Township and the Town of Winfield. Mr. Jokantas, As well as Eagle Creek; Hebron covers it. Now, that s just fire and EMS; police are still handled out of the Sheriff s or Lake County. Mr. Whitten, So this is a huge conversation that we ll probably, I mean, it s a great idea Mr. Biggs, Yeah, I agree that it s a huge conversation, but we need to have it. Mr. Whitten, You re right. Mrs. Graham, It needs to be started. Mr. Rivas, Can I add one more element to it? Mr. Whitten, Please do. Mr. Rivas, And I m not completely clear on this, but the dispatching, I ve been told, the dispatching of Porter Hospital, with our contract with them, do we dispatch everything they do? Do they have a dispatch center like every other private ambulance service? Mr. Jokantas, No. Mr. Rivas, So we dispatch for them on everything for free? Mr. Polarek, So if they transfer from one of their things to another spot Mr. Jokantas, There are some things that are handled by telephone, I believe, but usually the emergent transfers like from Portage Porter Hospital to and vice versa are called in through dispatch, yes. Page 18