RAN KONG 1 START OF TAPE ONE/TWO, SIDE A RAN KONG November 25,2000 BARBARA LAU: Okay. Today is November- what did they say- RAN KONG: 25th. BL: - 25th, 2000. My name is Barbara Lau. And we' re in Greensboro, North Carolina, at the Greensboro Buddhist Center. And I'm interviewing Ran Kong for the Listening For A Change Project of the Southern Oral History Program. Ran, why don't you just say, if you wouldn' t mind, tell us your name and where you live. And then maybe you could talk a little bit about how you remember coming to Greensboro. RK: Okay. My name is Ran Kong. I live at 1211 Kinley Street, Greensboro, North Carolina. And my memories of coming to North Carolina I was so young then. I was only four years old when I first came here. And so my memories of like exactly when we came, and you know, when we settled and aren't exactly all that clear. But I do remember the very first house that we lived in. It was an apartment complex with a small kitchen and a small living room. And we were all cramped in, but it was really fun. So I just remember, I guess my family back then, not exactly one specific thing that we did, but just the fact that we lived there in that neighborhood in that particular house, who our neighbors were and who the people around us were. BL: Could you tell us where your family is from and who the members of your family are? RK: My family is from Cambodia. The members of my family, my dad, my mom, my grandmother who is very old, and an older sister and a younger brother. BL: And could you tell us what their names are?
RAN KONG 2 RK: Yes. My father' s name is Kep Kong. My mom' s name is Uch Real. My grandmother s name is Loch Krang. My sister' s name is Yi Kong, and my brother' s name Chamroeun Kong. BL: So you were four years old when you came here. RK: Yes. BL: What did your parents tell you then about why you had to come to the United States? Do you remember that? RK: We were young, so they didn' t really say anything. Growing up, though, I always remembered my father mentioning it was this about Cambodia, it was that about Cambodia. Whatever it was, I knew that it was bad. It wasn t a good reason why we came. You know, it was like my first impression when I first heard about why we were here is that there was a war over there, which there was. But you know, there' s a whole lot more to there just being a war over there. And so it wasn' t until I was older, like maybe in my teens, that my father and my mother really started going into detail on what happened over in Cambodia, and you know, all of their experiences, and why they made the decision to come here to America. BL: When you were little, when you were first here, do you remember your parents being kind of nervous or afraid being in a different place? RK: I don' t know. I don' t think as a kid you ever really observe that. But I remember, though, that my father was the one in our family who ran everything. He was the one who always seemed to be talking and you know, taking care of things. He got a job as soon as he got here. And it seemed like to me and to my family, he was always the stable one that took care of everything, that made everything all right. So, you know, I guess as a
RAN KONG 3 child you place complete trust on your parents. And you know, I never really questioned what he did for us when we were little, just that he did everything. BL: Did he speak English when he came here? RK: Very little. I do remember whenever he talked, it was broken English, like halting and stuff. But I guess he communicated well enough, because you know, we did just fine. But I think that he also got help from people in the community who knew how to speak English and Khmer. BL: Well, you mentioned that there were other Cambodians here. RK: Yes. BL: So did you live near other Cambodians when you first moved here? RK: Yes. In our apartment complex, it' s like there was just like two rooms or two houses, and it was like A and B. And we lived on one side, and there was a Cambodian family who had gotten to America earlier than us who lived on the other side. And down the street from us was a Cambodian family whose kids we later babysat for. And I think there were also some other Asians in the neighborhood, not just us. BL: Do you remember whether people were sort of nice to you or welcoming to you, Cambodians and non-cambodians? RK: I think in general they were. It' s kind of weird, though, because my earliest memories of when I lived in that apartment complex were not of American-1 mean, not of Cambodians, really. They just sort of came and went. But I guess, Americans, I remember more about my experiences with Americans, particularly with my sponsors Mark and Stephanie Foster. And I just always remembered that they would come over and visit and bring things, or they' d come and take me and my sister, and my cousins family who later
RAN KONG 4 came, over to their house to spend the day with them or to you know, take us trick or treating on Halloween, and take us over to their house for Christmas. And so I think my earliest memories are of those happy times with them. BL: So they taught you a little bit about what was American as opposed to what was Cambodian. RK: Yes. BL: Was that a problem in your family? Did your parents have any problems, say, with you going to their house for Christmas when you were little? RK: No. I don' t think they had, you know, a problem with that. I think it was nice that here we were, and was this nice American couple who is trying to help us adjust to what goes on around here. You know, sort of like, Christmas, you know, what is that? And just the fact that they came over and invited us to have dinner with them. And you know, we got to see the tree, and they had presents for us and stuff. I think that was just very nice, coming from what you know, they had just come from over in the refugee camps to this, you know, it was sort of like a nice little introduction to America. BL: Was there any pressure, do you think, on you to become more American when you were a really little kid? RK: I guess at that age, you don' t really know who you are. I would say my name is Ran and, you know, but I think I' ve told you before that my impression of Cambodia was that it was on Mars. And so I don t really- you know, it' s kind of silly how, you know, when I think back to how when I was little, I used to think that my country was on a whole other planet. That' s how different I knew that I was. Just the fact that I don' t look like anybody here, and I know that I' m not from here. But then again, who am I really, and why
RAN KONG 5 am I really here? And so it' s just kind of funny how when you don' t know you don' t feel pressured to be anything at all. And when you re small, I guess nothing really matters except, having fun, and being happy. So there' s not really any pressure to be really Cambodian or to be really American. But early on, I do remember my parents always saying, you' re not we' re Cambodian, we're Cambodian. We' re not American. Remember that. BL: So did they, for example, want you to learn English, or did you- because you were younger than school age then. RK: Yes. BL: Did you stay home for a little while and that kind of thing, or did you go right to school? RK: I think I went right to school. I think- yes, except for my brother who was about two years old at that time. I was five when school started, so they put me into kindergarten. But you know, my father was like, well, we' re living in America, obviously, we have to learn English. So he never really said, go to school, but don' t try to learn, or anything like that. It was always, go to school, learn what you can- keep talking? BL: Yes. RK: Go to school, learn what you can, because we' re here. And I guess my father is a person who values education very much. And so to him it was always, no matter what kind of an education you got or where you got it from, the more knowledge you have, the better. And so there was never really any pressure from my parents' part to say, don' t learn English in school or whatever, because when we came home, we had to speak in Khmer anyways.
RAN KONG 6 BL: So nobody spoke English in your house. Is that in part because of your grandmother? RK: Yes. And also in part because my mom didn' t know English then. And my father' s grasp on English wasn' t a lot either. He wasn't, at that point, very fluent in it. But now, we speak English in the house to our parents. And they' 11 understand, and they' 11 respond in Khmer, and then tell us, to shut up, speak in Khmer. BL: Can you talk a little bit about the role of your grandmother in your life when you were a young girl? RK: When we were young, both of my parents had to work. And so in the household it was really convenient that my grandmother was there, that she could take care of all of us, sort of like our babysitter. But obviously, in our culture, grandparents are a very important part of the household. And so she was like our second mom in a way. I think personally, with me, my relationship with her is even deeper because you know, I sleep with her, and when I was small, I didn' t really follow my parents. Like wherever my grandmother went, I had to be there. And so out of the three of us, I think it was my grandmother and me spent the most time together. But she was the one in our household who, you know, before my parents made a decision, it was kind of like, well, is it going to be good for her? You know, is it going to benefit my grandmother? Is it going to benefit the kids? And then, okay, then it' s good for the family. So the decision to move, will it be good for my grandmother? Will it be good for the kids? And then, okay, we move. BL: Well, when you first started going to school, did you feel really different than the other kids? And how did teachers and other people that were around you, did they help
RAN KONG 7 that, make it worse, or what was that experience like? RK: I think it helped a lot that I went to a school that had other Cambodians in it. My elementary school was Caesar Cone Elementary School. And I think that at that point that was the only elementary school in Greensboro that was offering English as a second language. And so I wasn' t the only Asian there. And my sister and my cousin also went there, and a couple of other Cambodian kids who I knew from the community. So in a sense, I didn' t feel totally different, but at the same time, we were going to ESL classes with our teachers. And you know, so I knew that we weren' t exactly, you know, like other American kids who were just staying in the classroom, you know, the whole day. We had to go to a special class and learn English. BL: You said before that even with the kids in your neighborhood you realized that you looked different. Did kids tease you? RK: Well, yeah. You know, I think the most common phrase that I heard thrown at me when I was little was "Chink." So I don't know, I don' t look very Chinese to me, but I guess you know, what kids pick up from their parents or what kids pick up from the media, that' s all they can use against you. BL: Were there people in your school that kind of tried to counteract that, or did you feel like some of the teachers felt like you were really different too? RK: Well, I don t think I really knew what that word meant back then. You know, it wasn' t really until fifth grade when one of my friends actually called me that name again, that I really understood that it was derogatory, and I knew that it wasn' t nice to call somebody that. You can sort of like sense that and pick that up. But I didn t really know what that meant, until fifth grade. So, you know, kindergarten, first, second grade, whoever,
RAN KONG 8 you know, like whatever. Nothing really matters. You know, we' re all on the playground, we all play together. It doesn' t really matter. BL: So what happened in fifth grade? Can you describe that experience? RK: Well, I' m going to leave out the person' s name. Actually, I still remember him to this day, and my fifth grade teacher, I loved her, actually, Mrs. Knight. And I was sort of teacher' s pet. And so everybody in the class was like, she' s teacher' s pet, you know, like don' t mess with her, type of thing. And so I was outside and my teacher had said, go out and take the erasersfromthe chalkboard, and bang them against the wall of the building and get all the chalk out and stuff. And so of course, I always volunteered to do this. And so I went outside and I was just banging away, chalk dust flying everywhere. And the guy comes out. He was actually one of my friends. And he was like, Chink, hey Chink, what s up? You know, just, Chink, Ran is a Chink. And that just really upset me that, like this guy who I considered one of my friends was calling me this name. And I actually hadn' t heard it in a while. I developed this like image of myself that I' m teacher' s pet so nobody should mess with me. And so of course, like it upset me to the point that I burst out crying. And I went inside, back into the classroom. And the teacher was like, what' s wrong, Ran? And I was like, this person' s name, was calling me Chink. And the bell rang, and we all got into a line, leaving the school building. And it' s funny because Mrs. Knight grabs, one of those little padsfromher desk and goes, you know, person s name, you don't go around- you know, that' s not very nice. You shouldn t say that to Ran. And this is what you re going to have to do. So she wrote down on her pad, I will not call Ran a Chink anymore. You have to write this down 500 times and turn it in to
RAN KONG 9 me tomorrow. So that was his form of punishment for calling me that. But I guess it was just kind of funny, because later on he did come up and apologize. And I guess I ve seen him in high school, and I think later on he dropped out. But he still remembered me, and I still remembered him. And I think we both remembered that incident very well. BL: What do you think you and he learned from that incident? RK: I think I learned that, it' s really horrible, but when somebody makes a comment like that to you, it does hurt no matter how much you try to bar yourself against saying that it doesn' t hurt and even in fifth grade, I don' t think I really knew like the full extent. I just knew that it was bad and I didn' t want to be called that. And so I guess I learned too that sometimes like-1 guess like after he was punished, I guess I felt like a little bit happier that he was punished, but at the same time, it wasn' t like completely, he deserved it, you know. I don t know. I think I wish that it had never happened at all, like that incident had never happened at all, because it' s just something that I remember very clearly from fifth grade. And to him, I don' t know. I hope he learned a lot more than just to never mess with a teacher' s pet, I guess. So, I don' t know. BL: You were talking a little bit about how you weren' t the only Cambodian kid. Can you describe in some of your classrooms, say in elementary school, what kind of kids went to your school? RK: At Cone Elementary, our ESL classes were all-1 think all of the English as a Second Language students, so not just Cambodian kids, but I also think like Laotian kids and Vietnamese kids were also there. I think we had a Vietnamese teacher as one of our English as a Second Language teachers. And the other teacher, she was Hawaiian-American.
RAN KONG 10 But it was funny, because I think that the ESL classes were like the best classes out of the whole entire day at school. We all looked forward to it, I guess, because in there we were all equally as, I don' t know, I don' t want to say like dumb, but just, you know, enough that speaking English, you know, together. So it was kind of funny, because I remember Mrs. Outlaw trying to teach us not to ever say ain' t, and you know, just the fact that like, wow, 20 kids looking at this crazy lady saying, take ain' t and throw it out the window. Take ain' t and throw it out the window and- - cause she was trying to emphasize to us to never say ain' t. And so my sister was actually in that class with me. So just the fact that, you know, gosh what is this teacher doing? She' s saying take ain' t and throw it out the window. Take ain' t and throw it out the window. I guess it never really hit home until, you got older. But you know, it was fun. BL: But even in the rest of the school, what other kind of kids were at the rest of the school in your classes? RK: My class was mixed. We had, African-American kids, you know, White American kids, and then I had one Chinese friend who was in my second grade class. But otherwise, I think that was about it. BL: But in general the kids were sort of nice to you, or was this a real big change, to have a lot of, you know, kids that didn' t speak English at the school. Hold on. Okay. Try that. [Adjusting the microphone] RK: I don t know, actually, kindergarten, first and second grade, I don' t really remember much. I was at Cone for those first three years. But then third, fourth grade I was at another school. And at this school, it was different because in our third grade classes there were two other Cambodian students. And the whole attitude was different. At this point,
RAN KONG 11 like, it was still a mixture. The school was still pretty diverse like in terms of there being White, Blacks and Asians. But we' d sort of like developed this image that, you know, we' re really good students. And so it wasn' t like negative attention, but at the same time, it was like, they' re different. I think we all got along very well third grade. BL: So just because they were Cambodian doesn' t mean they were kids that you got along with? Is that what you were trying to say? RK: No. I think, you were just asking me in terms of, you know, how did the other kids treat you. I think it was like the other Cambodian girls who had been there had-1 guess what I' m trying to say is that they had developed, they were cool. You know, they had developed this image that they were really smart. They were more Americanized than I was. And so when I came in, they were like, oh, this other Cambodian girl, she' s our friend too. And so I was accepted. But it was always in a way there was always like this competition, sort of to see who' s smarter and stuff. I remember that with our multiplication tests. BL: Where else did you see Cambodian kids, I mean, outside of school? RK: Outside of school I' d see them in the community at the temple, basically, is where I' d see them. BL: So tell me what it was like when you were a kid and you were at the temple here at the Greensboro Buddhist Center? RK: It was fun. I just remember, jumping across the tables that the monk had built, just running around playing hide and seek, or playing whatever games that the kids thought up around here. And so whenever there was a ceremony we' d come and I' d stick with my
RAN KONG 12 grandmother for five minutes and then run and play. And then she' d come and call me back. And then I' d have to go back and sulk because I couldn t play with the other kids. BL:So being with other Cambodians and community kinds of celebrations, that' s something you would look forward to? RK: Definitely. BL: Tell me why. RK: I don t know. It was just fun. Like just as a kid, all you want to do is play, play, play, play, play. So you know, we play at school, but at school, you know, there' s a certain time, you can only go out to the playground and play for like 45 minutes each day and then you' d have to come back in and work some more. But here at the temple, it was just like whatever, you could just do whatever, get together with a group of kids and play hide and seek for hours until your parents call you to go home or whatever. And I guess just like that freedom of having like no constraints like at school, that was what really made it like fun here at the temple on the weekends. And plus, you stay at home, there' s nothing to do. BL: So you didn' t play as much with the neighborhood kids, you played more with other Cambodian kids at the temple? RK: Yes. In my neighborhood, let s see, as far as I remember, every neighborhood that I ve lived in has always had a Cambodian. After we moved from that apartment into our second house, right, our backyards were connected to another Cambodian family s backyard. It was actually Romato' s family. And Romato and I grew up- you know, sort of grew up together. We were about the same age. And so I always remember going over, you know, going across the fence to her house and playing with her on her swing set, or she
RAN KONG 13 would come across to by backyard and play. And also I think my mom babysat for Cambodian kids. And so I was always busy, helping her, entertaining them. So I never really got a chance to go out into like the neighborhood and play with other kids. BL: So your exposure to other kids was sort of limited? RK: Yes, just basically school. That was my exposure to other kids. BL: And were there things that your parents or your grandmother said to you when you were little that were important for you to learn because you were Cambodian, or lessons you think they wanted to teach you when you were little? RK: I guess like just the usual. Like for my grandmother and from my mom, like the lessons that they taught me were different from my father. From my grandmother, it was always more how to be a good girl. When you come to the temple with me or when you go to somebody' s house with me, it' s always important to be respectful, you know, to the older people, to the people who own the house, respectful to the monks. So just always from like my grandmother s side, respect, respect, respect. How to behave properly. She' s like, it s not good to be a noisy, playful, kid who runs all over everywhere, which I still did anyways. And from my mom, it was sort of the same type of lessons. You should get up early, and you should help me do this, do that. But from my dad it was on a more serious note, like always be good in school. Why aren't you doing good in school? Why aren' t you studying harder? I remember making a bad grade in third grade, and he was just furious, absolutely furious. And you know, I sort of cried and my grandmother held me. But so I remembered,
RAN KONG 14 you know, from early on an important lesson from my father was that you take education very seriously. It s always, do as good as you can in school. Like it's not something that you take lightly at all. BL: Did they tell you anything about how to relate to other people who weren' t like you? RK: Not particularly. Always just that, you know, be good in school. You know, make the teachers like you because, they' re the ones in authority, so if anything happens they can side with you. And don' t mess around at school. Don' t get into fights. Don' t get into arguments. I never really so I guess like that from that point of view, I never really had any problems at school. That whole fifth grade incident, my parents never knew about it. I just I just never told them. And so basically, my father was so strict about school, I knew that if I ever got, into an argument or into a fight with one of the other kids, I would be the one that would get into trouble, no matter if it wasn' t my fault or not. And so I just avoided it. So they never really had to tell me like how to interact with other kids besides, don' t start anything with them. BL: How old were you when you got to be really proficient in English? RK: After second grade they said that I didn' t need English as a Second Language classes anymore, so they sent me to third grade at another school that didn't have that program. So by that time I' d picked up the language easily enough to like speak it fluently. BL: So having proficiency in English, did that change your relationships in your family as you got older? RK: Yes. I guess like as I got older and I spoke it more fluently, and combined with
RAN KONG 15 like my personality, like I talk to much, and I' m not as shy as the other members of my family were in terms of like my sister and my cousin. Even though they were older than me, I would always be the one that my father would say, okay, translate for me, okay, speak for me. And so as I got older I took on more of the responsibilities of translating and interpreting, taking people to, taking my family members to the doctor. So I picked that up more and more as I got older. BL: Tell me what kind of jobs you did as the translator. Was it just in speaking, or did you also read things, or what kind of things did you do for your family in that role? RK: At first it was just speaking. At first it was just, well, my mom goes to the doctor and I translate. Like I remember it was third grade, my cousin who was pregnant, you know, this was her first kid. She went into labor, and later on, my sponsors and everyone else told me it was me, the one that like translated in the hospital. I wasn t in the delivery room, but you know, just like the preliminaries, they said it was me. And they were, you did a good job. But I don't remember that incident at all. But my father didn' t trust me, when I was younger, to sort of read letters or anything yet. So at first it was just speaking to my sponsors or speaking to whoever- whichever American had called him, was on the phone. Or you know, talking- like translating between my teacher, telling my dad what my teacher was saying about my progress in school and stuff, which is not a bad thing. And, just-at first just speaking. But then later on when I could, you know, also read better, my parents stopped going to our neighbor, our Cambodian neighbor who could read and speak English. They stopped going to him, and, coming to me for like little matters, just like, you know, what is this saying, what is that saying.
RAN KONG 16 And I think my first big job was when we bought the house that we live in now, just sort of, helping out with my parents and with my dad' s friend, who was the one that we had been going to for, you know, questions concerning like what does this letter say, and stuff like- so just like helping with that process. BL: How old were you when that was? RK: That was after fourth grade. BL: So you would have been 10? RK: Yes. 9 or 10. BL: Did you write letters or write checks or pay bills or do any of that kind of stuff for your parents? RK: That didn' t come until later on, until probably middle school. BL: So tell me what you were doing then, as you got to be 12 or 13, what kind of jobs did you have then as a translator? RK: You know, more of the going to the hospital thing. I got better at that. And I actually liked it after a while. It was really fun poking around in the doctor' s office, seeing what he had. And at 12 and 13, paying for the bills. Like my mom, in Cambodian culture, the wife is the one who takes care of like the bills and handles the money. The husband is the one that works. So my mom was the one who picked up the responsibility. I think when we first came it was my father and her, but then after a while my dad was just like, okay you can handle it now. You know, Ran can help you and Yi can help you. And so she would get the bills. And she d be like, okay, what day do we pay this, so that it won' t be late? And I' d be like, okay, well we can pay these two bills first, and we can pay these two bills later on in the week. And so just helping her with that and you know,
RAN KONG 17 writing out the checks and mailing them off. But you know, my dad was the one who had done that, but later on he was like, okay, she can do it. So you know, my mom and I just did that. And so even now my father doesn t worry about how much money we have in which account or whatever. He just works and puts it there. And my mom is the one that like checks, and she gets the statement from the bank and she calculates. She goes through the checks and like, okay, this is right, this is right, this is right. She always jokingly says, it' s just to safeguard against my father, taking money out of the bank and doing something bad with it. Obviously she s joking around. But it' s just really important that I do my job because he does his. BL: So part of doing that was also teaching you about what your role was supposed to be RK: Well, now that you put it that way, well, I don' t know. I don t think it was ever meant as that way. BL: Did you still do translation stuff for your dad? What kind of stuff did you do? RK: Well, I guess like the things got bigger over the years. Pretty soon it was like I could go with my dad and my mom to like buy the car without having another Cambodian translator present. And so it progressed to that point. And you know, also helping out with my cousin' s side of the family, determining, you know, this is the car, this is how much it is, this is what the monthly payments are, this is the interest rate, warranties, or buying life insurance or health insurance, sort of like explaining to them what' s going on, what these things really are and stuff like that. So I mean, it' s all things we need to know anyways. BL: So as you got older you also interacted with a lot more people outside the
RAN KONG 18 Cambodian community? RK: As I got older I also translated for some people outside of the community, and not just within my family. Just like my mom' s friend, you know, whenever she needed somebody to go to the doctor, I'd be like, I' 11 go, miss school, lots of fun. BL: Well, what did you think about the Americans that you came into contact with at that point when you were 12 and 13 and sort of, you know, acting as the translator for your family or for other Cambodians? RK: The Americans that I came into contact with, like the doctors and stuff? I don' t know, it was good for me to deal with these people, because I was like, wow, I really want to be like them when I grow up. For the longest time I wanted to be a doctor, when I got older. And so in a way they were like my role models. And like my experiences with them were always good, just in terms of, these people, they' re really nice. They' re the ones that help get us better. They' re the ones that always cure us. And so it was always good. Sometimes they' d come in and they were like, who are you? You know, like what are you doing here? You' re kind of young to be in here. Can I ask these questions in front of you? But always before I left, they were always like, I am so glad you were here, because you made things go a lot smoother. So in a way it was, it was good to know that- it felt good to know that I was helping not only like the doctor, but like my family as well. BL: But that was pretty different than maybe some of your other friends, not necessarily your Cambodian friends, but other kids in school. They had kind of different jobs in their family, didn' t they? RK: In a way, as I got older, sometimes I would get frustrated because I' m reading
RAN KONG 19 this letter, and I m like, well what the hell is a premium rate? What is a premium? I mean, what is that? And then you call up the people, the customer line, right? And so customer service, and you know. So you' re like, What is the premium rate? And sometimes they talk to you as if you should know this. And they' re, like, well let me speak to your parents. My parents can' t speak English. Well, I need to speak to another adult. Well, there' s no other adult that can understand this, and so you need to say it to me. And then sometimes they get exasperated with you because you' re speaking, and then you' re like, okay wait a minute, I need to tell that to my parents. And then you' d stop for five minutes and tell your parents. And then you come back and you' re like okay, I have another question. And so basically, I guess that's the worst part about having this type of responsibility, is that you know, dealing with people who just don' t understand, like who were just never really exposed to like oh, this could be happening. There' s a kid in the family that has to actually understand this, and, do you know what I' m saying? BL: I want to adjust the mike again. RK: Okay. BL: But you should still speak to me. RK: Okay. BL: Try that again. Just talk a little bit. RK: Hello, hello, hello. BL: A little bit more. RK: Excuse me. So do you hear the rain? BL: Yes, a little bit.
RAN KONG 20 RK: A little bit. It s very soothing. It makes me want to sleep. BL: Okay. Try that. Talk a little bit. RK: Hello Barbara. BL: That's good. Okay. RK: Okay. BL: Okay. So we were talking about being in sort of unique situations because you were translating, and sometimes you had to understand adult concepts it sounds like, and get people to try to explain that to you. So at this point you' re in middle school, or you' re getting into junior high school, you' re starting to get into high school. What' s school like, and what are the other kids like and are they nice to you? And what s all that about? RK: Well, let' s see. In middle school, there were other Asians in the school. There were a couple of Laotians and a couple of Vietnamese, and also like two of my Cambodian friends from third grade. We were all like in this middle school. So middle school was actually really fun. It was good. At that point I was also dancing in the community, and so, I was pretty busy, what with school and just like studying and stuff. And at that point I had become a pretty good student, so I was making fairly good grades. And so, I was happy. So i think middle school was like just good. It was like easy going. BL: Can you elaborate on your dancing and what that meant to you? RK: Dancing. Well, the monk here at the community, he started a dance group. And I joined, I think towards sixth or seventh grade. And atfirstit was like, I just love the art of dancing, seeing it on tapes and stuff, I' m like, wow, I want to be able to do that. And so when the monk was like, okay, well, we' re going to offer classes or whatever, I was like,
RAN KONG 21 hey, I want to join. I want to do this. And you know, I just want to learn. So basically at that point, it was just like something fun, something that I was like learning. At that point, I don' t think the cultural importance of it had really hit, in a way. So it was just like, this is something fun I get to do. I get to go and perform and you know, at different places, and see different things. And I get to be with these other girls who are my age who are doing the same things I m doing. And so basically it was more of like a fun hobby than anything else. BL: So at that point you weren' t really sort of thinking, oh, this is sort of who I am, or this is about who I am. Was there any of that message in your dance instruction? RK: I think at that point it was just starting, everything was just starting to fall into place. My father, my parents are starting to tell me more a little bit about their experiences. And, the monk himself would always say, well, you know, I' ve started this because I know it' s important for Cambodian kids to have this, to be able to like remember this. So I knew that it was important, but still, I hadn' t really focused on why it was important for me yet. So I think that didn' t really hit until like a little bit older. BL: High school? RK: Probably like eighth grade, ninth grade. But at the same time, I think in a way it was accumulating. I was slowly working my way towards I guess like full awareness. So at the same time, though, in middle school, my two Cambodian friends, it was nice that they were there, in a way I guess, like growing up, because it was always like, okay these they're Cambodians, but they're different from me. They would have more freedoms from me. They can go to the mall with their American friends and shop or whatever. And they can go spend the weekend at each other' s house. And they can even
RAN KONG 22 come and spend the weekend at my house. But for my parents, it was always like, well, I can never go over to their place. And so it was always like, they' re Cambodian girls too, Dad, so why? And, he' d launch into this long lecture about you know, this is what' s right, and this is what' s wrong. So what they' re doing is wrong? No, it' s not wrong, but we' d just really like for you not to do it. And at school, I guess just like in terms of like our friends, always the fact that they were always more American than me. Like so they always like I guess like fit in more. But at the same time, I don' t know, it was just weird, because seeing us then and seeing us now, it really makes sense, how our different upbringing, how differences in our parents views have changed, you know have sort of led us onto the different paths that we now live. We' re all in college at different places, but I'm still here with the Cambodian community, which is what my parents always stressed and always wanted. And whereas they, whose parents didn' t really stress you know, the importance, are just fine isolated from the Cambodian community, which I could never deal with. BL: They' re more Americanized. RK: They' re more Americanized, definitely. BL: Did your parents ever think about leaving North Carolina when you were younger? RK: My mom told me that she has a really good friend who lives in California. And her friend is always like, oh, come on, move out here. We can start a business here together. It was a really good time to start Cambodian stores, whatever, because there' s so many Cambodians living there. But my dad-i think he took a trip to like Philadelphia or New York or some big city
RAN KONG 23 where there was a lot of Cambodians. And he came back and he absolutely hated it. He was just like, I don' t want my kids growing up in that kind of environment. So the question of leaving North Carolina has never really, entered my parents' mind. They really like it here. They really like the fact that it'sa small community and there' s not many people. And it' s not a really big city where kids can get into a lot of trouble. And I think he' s made a good judgment to stay here in North Carolina. BL: What other things do you think your parents like about North Carolina that helped them stay here, outside the Cambodian community? RK: Outside of the Cambodian community? The fact that there are jobs, you know, that you can get a job. And I don' t know, I think also it helped that like our sponsors were here. They used to live in Greensboro, but they' re now in Mississippi. The fact that our sponsors were here, and they maintained contact with us for a long time. But I don' t think that if there was no Cambodian community my parents would have opted to stay here at all. BL: They would have left if there was no~ RK: They would have left, definitely. So you know, it' s kind of like hard to answer. I guess like besides like the accessibility to like a job or whatever, there really wouldn' t be any like attraction you know, of North Carolina, for them. END OF TAPE ONE/TWO SIDE A ***** START OF TAPE ONE/TWO SIDE B BL: It' s hard to say exactly what your parents think, but do you know if they' ve experienced a lot of discrimination here or acceptance, or have they found that it' s easy to be here or not easy?
RAN KONG 24 RK: I guess, you know, of course like discrimination. Sometimes when you don' t understand, I think it's a lot easier, like for my mom, her grasp of the language isn' t as fluent, but my father can understand English very well. And so I' ve heard of like incidents that he' s experienced at work in terms of just like you know, discrimination. But you just can' t escape it. I don' t think anywhere that you go you could escape it. But you know, you meet good people and you meet stupid people, obviously. Like he was just telling me he works at Gilford Mills, and he works in shipping. And one of the truck drivers who came in saw him like unloading whatever was in the truck, like rolls or cloth or whatever, goes, I have a dog at home. Like, do you eat dogs? And you know, he was just like, wow, I' ve gotten jokes about, you know, do you wok a dog? You know, like, walk, w-a-l-k versus w-o-k. And I' m just like you don t really understand it. Well, I didn' t really understand then until somebody explained to me later. But you know, to my dad, he understood just the way that the body language of the person speaks more for itself than the words. And so you know, the fact that this guy was making this remark to him-that' s why I say it's easier that you understand, I mean that it' s easier that you don' t understand, because if you don' t understand, you' re just, what the hell is this guy talking about, like a dog, you know? If you don' t eat dogs, why do you think we eat dogs, you know? So my dad was just like, oh, well, whatever, you know. I' 11 go on my way. But he' s the type of person that' s, I want to avoid conflicts, simply because if it was a Cambodian person, he would have had no trouble like responding, to that type of derogatory comment. But in the workplace, and knowing that he is a minority, that he is not American,
RAN KONG 25 and knowing that there' s always bias, he' s like, if I go up before my employer, well, who you do you think my employer is going to take the side of? what am I compared to a nativeborn American? So because of that he says he doesn' t want to respond. He says, it' s no use to respond. So that' s always to us, that' s what we' re taught. That' s why when we go to school, we' re told not to get into conflicts with other students, because in the end when it all boils down to it, we re not Americans, we don' t look like Americans. So whatever happens, always remember that. You know, always, in a way, you' re not welcome here. Do you know? BL: So there is some sense from which you felt that, that you' re not welcome here? RK: It' s like you understand that, but you understand things only when bad things happen to you, in a sense, which is really ironic in a way. But you do, you just, you know, you just understand things like when bad things happen to you, like when you' re having fun, at school playing with' all of your friends or whatever, you don' t just like the fifth grade incident, like it was really exciting being with my friends, I felt like I was fitting in. I ran for class president in the fifth grade. I lost, but just the fact that I feel like a part of the school. I feel like these other kids. You don't distinguish and say that you're different until something like that happened. Like out of the whole school, that kind of comment was made to nobody but me, you know? So in a way, like when things like that happen, it' s then that you understand, oh, you' re different. BL: So as you got a little bit older, and I know that you went to a pretty special high school here in Greensboro. Maybe you could tell us the name, but also tell us a little bit
RAN KONG 26 about that experience in high school. RK: I went to Smith High School, which is probably the most diverse high school in Greensboro. And it also has one of the worst reputations in terms of academics. But let s see. High school was pretty fun. But at the same time, I' m Cambodian, you know, like I' ve always known. I' ve always known that. And you know, I like being Cambodian. But in high school, I saw Cambodians who didn' t like to be Cambodians. And that was something that made me like being Cambodian even more. Just the fact that here s this person who' s not being truly true to themselves, that' s just lying to themselves. It' s kind of like, well why do you want to do that, why? It' s not really good to do that. And so I guess it was good that there was that diversity in terms of not only like other Asians there, but also in terms of there being other Cambodians there who weren' t exactly like me. And it' s your choice, whoever you want to be. It' s all good with me. But just the fact that like you know, like their attitudes, it' s just different. BL: Well, when you say that, when you say they didn' t like being Cambodian, how did you know that? Did they do things? RK: Well, I mean they would say that they re not Cambodian. And they would dress and act differently, and not associate with us. BL: What would they say they were? RK: Blacks, or Vietnamese, or just plain American. I m American. I was born here. Sure you were BL: Were there a lot of other kids that were like you, who were proud of being Cambodian? RK: Definitely. I think the majority of us were just like, we re Cambodians, hello.
RAN KONG 27 We know where we' re from. Like Vandy and I are close friends, and we went through high school together. And so we were always the ones that were together. We were always the ones that were like, okay, International Day, Cambodia is going to dance. So we' d get up there, organize all the kids and do a dance. And it'd be good. But at the same time, there would be people who' d be like, well, why are you so adamant about doing this? It' s really not all that important. But at the same time, they don' t care about it. BL: You mentioned International Day. What other ways do you think Smith High School helped you kind of figure out, you know, where you were and where you stood? What were the teachers like? RK: It' s kind of hard in a school setting to really do that. In school, I went to classes, I just did what I needed to do in class or whatever. We didn' t really ever talk about it. But I remember in history class, we' d talk about you know, the Indian civilization and all these other great civilizations. And I' m like, wow, well, I wish we could mention the Ankor Civilization, because you know, I can relate to that. I know a little bit about that. But you know, Cambodia is not really important, so, you know, skip. We didn' t really hit on that much. And then just in terms of whenever we had an intro to all the religions,, and then you know, Buddhism comes up. And, I know about that. But then we' d spend ten minutes on it. So it was just kind of like this is the teacher' s agenda, you know. Cambodia or Asian history is not on the agenda. It's all American history, which is understandable. We' re here in America so that' s what you' re taught in high school.
RAN KONG 28 BL: Do you think there were other kids who weren' t Cambodian but weren' t also Americans that felt the same way you did, that they didn' t see themselves much? RK: Definitely. All the other Southeast Asian refugee students who were there, definitely. I guess like the Vietnamese people feel like they get a little bit more simply because of the Vietnam War and stuff. But then again, it' s negative attention. Do you know what I mean? And then, when we talk about communism and Karl Marx and stuff, like brief mention of Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge and stuff. So in a way it was all the attention, whenever we get the attention, that we got, is not good. So in a way, I can understand some people who were like, we just want to forget about it. We just don' t want to remember it. Whatever they bring up, whatever they remember is not good, so why bring it up at all? So in that aspect, I understand. BL: Did you ever mention any of that to your teachers, about being interested in studying more about Asian history or Buddhism or anything like that, or did you just look for that information in other places? RK: I just looked for it in other places. Like whenever we had a paper due, out of all the list of the topics there were to do, I' d be like, I want to do it on the Khmer Rouge. So, I d do it on the Khmer Rouge. Or pick a country and make a booklet of it or whatever, okay, I' d pick Cambodia. So in a way, I d always try to combine what the teacher wanted me to do with what I wanted to learn, really, because I want to learn about my country, because I don't get the chance to in a classroom setting. So I'd always take whatever opportunities I could. BL: Did some of that learning happen at home? Did your parents try to teach you a little bit about your
RAN KONG 29 RK: Definitely. My father would go on about all of what happened, like the politics and stuff, like with dates and stuff, how he remembered it, and, what happened, and his opinions and his views and stuff. So that was good for me. It sort of gave me a perspective. And it gave me the initiative to find out more. Because I was like, wow, this is really unclear for me and for him, so, you know, like look it up, see what really happened. How do Americans view what happened, you know? So you open up the text, the encyclopedia or whatever, and you read up on this brief little caption about the Khmer Rouge, and you' re just like, wow, it leaves out a lot of stuff. BL: Were there other places that you learned a little bit more about where you came from? RK: Cambodian community. The old people would always talk about it. Somehow or another, conversations would just turn to that, or some incident or some remark would just pop up into somebody' s head, and then they would mention it. And sometimes, it' s funny how you can sit back now and you canfindhumor in like during all these times, just the fact that somebody was hiding in, you know, find out they were hiding in a pile of crap or whatever. And so then it was scary, but now it' s kind of funny what you did. But definitely like hearing the old people talk about it. BL: Well, tell me what kind of stories they told you. Can you remember any of the things they told you? RK: From my parents it was always like you know, just like in a way it was always like different, like the experience. Like this is what happened in Kao-I-Dang [refugee camp]. This is where we lived, this is what your dad did. And when your sister was born, this is what happened. We were making our way to Thailand, you know, on foot, this is
RAN KONG 30 what happened. This is what I saw. This is what your grandmother said. And never actually really what happened with the Khmer Rouge besides like, they wanted to send me here. They told me that I had to marry between these two people, I had to pick somebody, so I picked your mom. You know, stories like that. And with the other Cambodians in the community, whenever they talked, it was always about a bad experience. Like what one of the Khmer Rouge people said to them, or how their families were separated and they didn' t end up together again until this time, or again, what happened in Kao-I-Dang or when one of their kids was born. BL: So people do talk about that, they think it' s important for young people here to know more about the history? RK: I think it' s up to their parents. I think for some parents, they definitely want to put it behind them, and so they don' t mention it as much. But there are other parents who are like, you know, I really want for my kids to know. BL: Now, when you were in high school, I think you also did a little bit more dancing. RK: Yes. BL: And so maybe you could talk a little bit about what you did, what you learned. Why was that important in shaping who you are? RK: In high school? Let' s see, the dancing, when we first started, like I said, it was just kind of, this is fun. This is something that not many other people can do, so it's something really special that I want to hold onto. But then I got older, and it was just like, wow, you know. And this type of dancing BL: Can you say what kind of dancing it is, and describe it?