NATIONAL COUNCIL OF YOUNG ISRAEL Shavuot Nation JEWISH EDITION Compiled by Gabi Weinberg Teen Program Director
Pronouncing the Z in Pizza Does one say it mezonot or hamotzi? By Jo Jo Freundel, Associate Regional Director - Upstate New York NCSY How is pizza dough made? 1. Ingredients, Chef Bobby Flay s Pizza Dough 3 1/2 to 4 cups bread flour, plus more for rolling (Chef's Note: Using bread flour will give you a much crisper crust. If you can't find bread flour, you can substitute it with all-purpose flour which will give you a chewier crust.) 1 teaspoon sugar 1 envelope instant dry yeast 2 teaspoons kosher salt 1 1/2 cups water, 110 degrees F 2 tablespoons olive oil, plus 2 teaspoons Read more at: http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/bobby-flay/pizza-dough-recipe.html?oc=linkback Looks like bread? Why wouldn t we say hamotzi on it? 2. תלמוד בבלי מסכת ברכות דף מא: -מב. איתמר: הביאו לפניהם תאנים וענבים בתוך הסעודה;; אמר רב הונא: טעונים ברכה לפניהם ואין טעונים ברכה לאחריהם. וכן אמר רב נחמן: טעונים ברכה לפניהם ואין טעונים ברכה לאחריהם;; ורב ששת אמר: טעונין ברכה בין לפניהם בין לאחריהם, שאין לך דבר שטעון ברכה לפניו ואין טעון ברכה לאחריו אלא פת הבאה בכסנין בלבד... רב יהודה הוה עסיק ליה לבריה בי רב יהודה בר חביבא, אייתו לקמייהו פת הבאה בכסנין. כיאתא, שמעינהו דקא מברכי המוציא. אמר להו: מאי ציצי דקא שמענא? דילמא המוציא לחם מן הארץ קא מברכיתו? -אמרי ליה: אין;; דתניא רבי מונא אמר משום רבי יהודה: פת הבאה בכסנין מברכין עליה המוציא, ואמר שמואל: הלכה כרבי מונא. אמר להו: אין הלכה כרבי מונא אתמר. אמרי ליה: והא מר הוא דאמר משמיה דשמואל, לחמניות - מערבין בהן ומברכין עליהן המוציא! - שאני התם דקבע סעודתיה עלייהו, אבל היכא דלא קבע סעודתיה עלייהו - לא. Talmud Bavli Masekhet Berakhot 41b- 42a It was said: if figs and grapes were brought to him during the meal - Rav huna says, they require a berakha beforehand and do not require a berakha afterwards. And Rav Nahman said, they require a berakha beforhand and do not require a berakha afterward. And Rav Sheshet said, they require a berakha beforehand and afterwards, since there is not a thing that requires a 1
berakha beforehand and does not require one afterwards except for pat haba a bekisnin Rav Yehuda made a wedding feast for his son in the home of Rav Yehuda bar Haviva;; they put in front of them pat haba a bekisnin. He came in and heard them making the berakha of hamotzi. He said to them, what is this nonsense that I hear? Are you really saying the berakha of hamotzi? They said to him: yes;; since it was taughtl Rabi Mona said in the name of Rabi Yehuda, pat haba a bekisnin you bless hamotzi on it, and Shemuel said, the halakha is like Rabi Mona. He said to them: it was stated that the halakha is not like Rabi Mona. They said to him: but wasn t it the Master himself who said we rule like Shemuel, lahmaniot can be used as an eruv and we bless hamotzi on them! That is different because a meal is established on them, but here, where a meal is not established on them, not. What does pat haba a bekisnin mean? Three opinions. 3. רש"י מסכת ברכות דף מא: ומביאין עמהן פת שנלושה עם תבלין כעין אובליאי"ש (עוגות מטעמים) שלנו... ומתוך שנותנים בה תבלין הרבה ואגוזים ושקדים ומאכלה מועט - לא הטעינוה ברכה מעין שלש Rashi, Commentary to Masekhet Berakhot 41b And they bring before them bread that is kneaded with spices like the ovli ish (sweet cakes) that we have and because they put in it a lot of spices and walnuts and almonds and eat a little bit - it doesn t require the berakha me ein shalosh (al hamihya). 4. רבנו חננאל, מסכת ברכות דף מב. ואמר כיון שהזכיר רב ששת פת הבא בכיסנין, פירש זו הפת העשויה כמין כיסין מלאים סוכר ושקדים ואגוזים וכיוצא בהן Rabbenu Hanan el, Commentary to Masekhet Berakhot 42a And it says that when Rav Sheshet mentions pat haba bekisnin, he explains this as bread that is made like a type of pocket that is filled with sugar, almonds, walnuts, etc 5. בית יוסף אורח חיים סימן קסח:ז והערוך פירש עוד בשם רבינו האי שפת הבאה בכיסנין הם כעכין והיא פת בין מתובלת ובין שאינה מתובלת שעושים אותה כעכין יבשים וכוססין אותם בבית המשתה ושלא בבית המשתה... Bet Yosef Orah Hayyim 168:7 And the Arukh explains further in the name of Rav Hai [Gaon] that pat haba a bekisnin are pretzels, that is bread, both that is spiced and that is not spiced, that is made dry [to the point of being crunchy] and we munch on it both in and outside of a dining area... 2
An interesting claim by the Shulhan Arukh 6. שולחן ערוך אורח חיים סימן קסח סעיף ו פת הבאה בכיסנין, מברך עליו: בורא מיני מזונות, ולאחריו: ברכה אחת מעין שלוש סעיף ז...והלכה כדברי כולם שלכל אלו הדברים נותנים להם דינים שאמרנו בפת הבאה בכסנין. Shulhan Arukh Orah Hayyim 168 Se if 6 Pat haba a bekisnin, bless upon it: borei minei mezonot;; and afterwards: berakha me ein shalosh Se if 7...and the halakha is like the words of all of them [sources 3, 4, 5] that for all of these things we apply the laws that we explained of pat haba bekisnin to them. 7. ט"ז אורח חיים סימן קסח:ו ולי נראה דלא קשה מידי דודאי ברכת בורא מיני מזונות פוטר הכל אפילו עיסה דהא זיין אלא שמפני חשיבות הפת קבעו עליו המוציא ושלש ברכות משום הכי כל שאין ברור שיש שם חשיבות ואינו בכלל כיסנין יש להקל שלא להצריך המוציא ויש על זה גם שם חומרא שלא לומר בחנם המוציא ושלש ברכות: Taz Orah Hayyim 168:6 To me it seems that this is not a difficulty because it is definite that borei minei mezonot permits [eating] all, even dough that has wine;; rather, when it has the distinction of bread we establish hamotzi and the shalosh berakhot (birkat hamazon). From this, anything that doesn t clearly have that distinction and isn t really kisnin there is reason to be lenient since it does not require hamotzi;; and there is also a stringency in this so that we don t freely say hamotzi and the shalosh berakhot. What if the filling isn t sweet? 8. מגן אברהם סימן קסח:מד בבשר או בדגים - וכיוצא בזה אפילו לא קבע עליו דהנהו לא מבטלי תורת לחם דהם עצמן מזון משא"כ פירות דהוי קינוח... Magen Avraham, Orah Hayyim 168:44 With meat or fish - or things like that, even if you don t establish it [as a meal one makes a hamotzi] because here the Torah of bread is not nullified because they are in themselves a meal which is not the case with fruit, that is a dessert 3
9. ט"ז אורח חיים סימן קסח:כ אלא ברור דאין חילוק דכמו שבשר ודגים באים ללפת הפת כן באים פירות ללפת את הפת כדאי' בסי' קע"ז בפירות שאוכל עם הפת וכאן ודאי הוה פת בכיסנין ויש בהן ברכת המוציא אם קבע עלייהו... Taz Orah Hayyim 168:20 Rather, it is clear that is no difference [between salty and sweet fillings], since the way that meat and fish come to add relish to the bread, fruit also comes to add relish to the bread, like is mentioned in siman 177 regarding fruit that is eaten with bread;; and therefore it is definitely pat bekisnin. And there is a berakha of hamotzi if one establishes it [as a meal]... How is a meal established? 10. תלמוד בבלי מסכת ברכות דף מב. רב הונא אכל תליסר ריפתי בני תלתא תלתא בקבא ולא בריך. אמר ליה רב נחמן: עדי כפנא! אלא: כל שאחרים קובעים עליו סעודה צריך לברך. Talmud Bavli Masekhet Berakhot 42a Rav Huna ate thirteen rolls [Rashi: of pat haba bekisnin], three to a kav, and didn t make a berakha [Rashi: birkat hamazon]. Rav Nahman said to him, this is hunger! Rather, anything that others establish as a meal requires a berakha. 4
Pronouncing the Z in Pizza Does one say it mezonot or hamotzi? Guide for Facilitators and Independent Study This shiur seeks to address an often-asked question, what berakha does one make on pizza, by looking at the major line of reasoning concerning pat haba bekisnin and whether or not pizza falls under that category. In the process, it will also give a fair glance into the halakhic nature of sevara and how laws are determined in cases of safek. Sources 1 and 2 Begin by pointing out that pizza is made from dough that is lightly flavored (source 1). Point out that this should make it definitely a food requiring a hamotzi, because it is made primarily from flour (see, for example, Mishne Torah, Hilkhot Berakhot 3:1-2). This will lead directly into the gemara (source 2), which indicates that a certain type of bread, pat haba a bekisnin (also called lahmaniot in the passage), does not necessarily require a hamotzi. The second thing to get out of this source immediately is that the hamotzi is not made ONLY IF one is not kovei a seuda on these items. This idea is also mentioned in source 3 and source 5, as a given for the way pat haba bekisnin is consumed. On the other side, Rashi explains on the line that one can establish it as an eruv that it has the ability to take on the importance of a meal. Sources 3-5, 8, and 9 The next question to ask is what exactly is meant by pat haba a bekisnin. At this point you can introduce the idea of difference in sevara, as there are three main interpretations here. They are those of Rashi (source 3), Rabbenu Hanan el (source 4), and Rav Hai Gaon, quoted in the Beit Yosef (source 5, who writes that he saw it referenced in the Arukh, an 11th century halakhic dictionary of sorts). Explore the differences between the opinions, particularly how each one might include pizza. In general, Rabbenu Hanan el s position will be referred to later, in the disagreement between the Magen Avraham (source 8) and the Taz (source 9). Sources 6 and 7 After this has been explained, move on to the interesting claim of the Shulhan Arukh (source 6). In these two se ifim, R Yosef Caro repeats the three positions mentioned before (not included in the source sheet) but concludes that any food that falls into any of the three categories is considered pat haba a bekisnin, and one should make a mezonot and al hamihya on it. There are a few possible reasons for this, two of which are mentioned by the Taz (source 7). One explanation, hinted at in the last line, is that of a safek. Because each of these may require a mezonot/al hamihya instead of hamotzi/birkat hamazon, the rule of safek applies. Since saying God s name in vain is an issur de oraita (Biblical prohibition), we follow the principle of safek de oraita lehumra, to rule stringently on Biblical questions, and we err on the side of caution and avoid the hamotzi/birkat hamazon. His other explanation, which is more interesting for the primary discussion, is that mezonot/al hamihya is really a berakha that is different than hamotzi/birkat hamazon in degree, but not in type. For that reason mezonot is acceptable for any 5
kind of bread. The difference in his mind comes from when a meal is actually established;; when it is, then hamotzi is made. You can also mention the explanation given by the Mordechai, which is that each opinion could theoretically be included as subsets of the other opinions, and therefore the Mehaber uses a broad interpretation. The disagreement between the Magen Avraham and the Taz, coupled with the Shulhan Arukh s broad interpretation, allows you to put forward the widely accepted custom nowadays that pizza is not something one immediately makes hamotzi on, but is part of the category of pat haba bekisnin. If we accept the idea that a safek is enough to rule as a mezonot over a hamotzi, then the Taz s opinion establishes a basis for ruling in that way. Source 10 The last source (source 10) returns you to the gemara in berakhot, in a passage that comes in between the two cited earlier in source 2. This short passage is important, because it establishes an objective standard for the determination of what makes a meal. While you can mention the Mishna Berura, et al, who believe that birkat hamazon is only required when one is savei a, when one is entirely satiated, the point here is that whether or not something constitutes a meal relies on a determination of what is normal, and not on any subjective opinion. Since all poskim, including the Mehaber, believe that once pat haba a bekisnin becomes established as a meal one need make a hamotzi and birkat hamazon, you can end on a discussion of how much pizza one would have to consume before it was considered a full meal, requiring the hamotzi to be made. 6