COOPER SCHOOL ORAL HISTORY PROJECT Betty Beavert Dunn Audiotape [This is an interview with Betty Beavert Dunn on November 17, 2003. The interviewer is Judy Bentley. The transcriber is Jolene Bernhard.] [Tape begins as Judy is speaking] JB: Judy Bentley. I m interviewing Betty Beavert Dunn for the Old Cooper School Oral History Project. [Tape cuts out] JB: Today is November 17, 2003. Betty, let s start off with just some of your first memories of Cooper School. Maybe even your first day at school. BD: Don t remember that. Do remember I was very anxious to go to school. I had just turned five, so I was a young kindergartner. And, of course, my brother was going there, so I felt very protected knowing that I had my big brother to look out for me. Other than that, I can t honestly say I have a real strong memory of that first day. If I m not mistaken, my classroom, though, was on the lowest level of the school. I remember things like we had to go downstairs. I may be wrong but that s what I remember. JB: Had your family just come to this area? BD: Yes. We had just moved from the north end of Seattle. My father was going to work for Mobil Corporation [General Petroleum, changed to Mobil Oil Co., now Exxon/Mobil] and his place of employment was down at Harbor Island. So, it was a close area. [Tape cuts out] JB: What was the neighborhood around the school like then? BD: It was a wonderful place to be. At first, we lived probably two to three blocks away. And then we moved about six blocks away but, as long as I can remember, from the time we were first there, I could go with my brother freely down to the park. There were always things to do and activities going on both on Saturdays and, as I got older, I could ride my bike and take part in everything that went on. It was just a wonderful family neighborhood to grow up in. JB: Was this the park that s along Delridge now? 1
BD: Directly across from the school, correct. There was a field house there at that time and they had activities for youth. Many things, from sports to crafts. There was always something we could take part in. JB: This was 1938 when your family had moved here? BD: Yes. Of course, probably not at five did I do that. But I can honestly remember I wasn t too old, probably seven, eight years old, when I could ride a bike and I could safely go on my own down the sidewalk. Take part, meet my friends and play. JB: So, it was a safe neighborhood to ride a bike in? BD: Very safe. JB: Not too much traffic? BD: No, no. In fact, at that time, there was a boulevard through the center of Delridge Way, so there was a separation of traffic. You didn t have all the lanes paved. It was just a boulevard through the center. JB: What were some of the issues of the day for the school and the neighborhood while you were a student? Did anything change or get people talking? BD: I really can t say that there was ever anything diverse, or that made you frightened or anything. The only thing that we ever were warned about, you had to be careful of those kids that lived in The Gulch. [chuckling] That was down closer to the steel mill and, supposedly, we weren t supposed to go down there. Maybe it was too far away from home. I don t remember there ever being any trouble, to be truthful, because I had friends that lived in that general area. You know, I could go to their houses. But we just weren t to venture down that far. JB: Was there a dividing line? Where did The Gulch begin? BD: When you said The Gulch, it had to be almost to Spokane Street. It was way down. You could go down to the fountain, which was, right now, where Food Services of America offices [are]. Right by the steel mill. There was a fountain there that we could go down to a nice little [shop] and have ice cream and penny candy, and get our chocolate sodas or cherry Cokes, Green Rivers. [laughing] JB: Green Rivers? BD: The Green Rivers. JB: What are those? 2
BD: That was a drink, just like a soft drink. It was green and bubbly. And, of course, they made it at the fountain. They had stools. I d forgotten about that, to be truthful. There was a little drugstore there. JB: Do you remember a name of that drugstore? BD: It probably was just Youngstown Pharmacy or something like that. I really don t remember the name of it, no. JB: Was the school called Youngstown or Cooper when you went? BD: When I started, it was Youngstown but that was just for the one year. Then it became Frank B. Cooper when I was a first-grader. JB: Do you remember anything about that change? BD: No. I don t remember at all. No, I said then I went to Cooper. JB: And how did you get to school? BD: Walked, always. Don t ever remember not walking. It was just you walked. When I was a little bit older at that age I think I was about, maybe third-grader, third or fourth when we moved but we had a couple friends along the way that would meet you. They d come out from their street or whatever, their house. Then I had a cousin that lived a little bit down the way from where we lived, so we went to school together. Our mothers were sisters, so we were close with them, too. We would always meet and go to school together. JB: No trouble crossing streets? BD: No, we had crossing guards [but] only at the school. In fact, my brother was chosen when he was an eighth-grader to appear on the certificate that was given to all patrol students in City of Seattle, which was a big honor for him and our family. JB: Had he been on patrol for a long time? BD: Ever since he d come to the school as a seventh-grader. Correct. I don t remember any problems crossing streets or I don t think there were any lights. I don t remember any lights at all. JB: So, there wasn t much traffic? BD: Not a great deal. No. Uh-uh. JB: What kinds of activities were available to students through the school? Any clubs or you mentioned the activities at the field house. 3
BD: We had intramural sports as we got a little older. Not necessarily as you were in the lower grades but from the time you were probably in sixth, seventh grade. We played softball, which we played against other local schools. We played in Highland Park. So, we had even a little bit of traveling that we did. My parents must have taken us, that s all I can think. I can t remember. Really, it was mostly park department activities. JB: Can you describe the other children in the school? What were they like? BD: Well, I had many friends. I was always involved. The activities that were there, whatever was going on, I usually was involved in. In fact, I still keep in contact with several people that I went to Cooper School [with]. I still talk and see and correspond with a girl that I went from kindergarten all the way through Cooper and West Seattle [High] with. I just spoke to another young lady young lady! lady s same as I am now who was my very best friend when I was from about the fourth grade on. We still see and talk to one another. And, of course, my cousin. [Her name is Earlene Stewart Bowen and she now lives in north Seattle.] JB: You were talking about something related to the May Day experience you had had. BD: I think, in that one picture you had looked at I remember the courtyard. I was either a kindergartner or a first-grader. May Day was a big thing at the school at that time. They did a big Maypole. I remember the streamers and I remember taking part in the program, and I fouled it all up! I went the exact wrong way or something. Anyway, it messed up the whole event. JB: Describe what was supposed to happen with those because we don t have Maypoles today. BD: You were supposed to be able to weave in, out and around. The details, I honestly can t tell you. All I know is I made a wrong turn somewhere and things just didn t work. [laughing] But it was fun. JB: You mentioned the fountain at the drugstore. Were there any other places that kids hung out together after school? BD: Well, you didn t really hang out. If you went there, you only went because you had enough money, and you had permission to go and get a treat. JB: From your parents. BD: From your parents. I don t ever recall hanging out. Ever. You came home, and if you had permission to do that, you did that. The other thing that I remember from that drugstore, too, they had little chocolates. Were a penny apiece. You d bite the end off of it and if you got a pink one, you got a free one. Otherwise, they were white. But as far as activities, you mainly did things right around your house. Your friends, you just played with neighbor friends. JB: Can you describe any of those activities that you played? What did you play? 4
BD: We played house. We built camps in the woods. We played Kick the Can. Not a lot of board games, it was mainly outside activity. And then if we went to the park, it was sports. You know, some kind of sports that you took part in. JB: Where were the woods? BD: Right behind our house [a little north of South Seattle Community College]. We could come up the hill you know, right here, right from where I lived and that was just all woods and trails. [I actually lived across the street from the new library at 5416 Delridge Way. The woods were the hill to the east.] JB: East of Cooper School then. Up the hill. BD: Yes, a little bit southeast. Further south from Pigeon Hill. Just to the top of the hill here. We were allowed to go up the trails there, and play and build our camps. JB: Were these trails that had just been beaten by BD: People. To traverse from coming from the hill down to Delridge to take a bus. Because, if I remember right, I don t think there was any bus service up here at all. You know, up on the hill. You had to go down to Delridge to get a public bus. And, of course, we only used buses. We went everywhere by bus. JB: Do you remember Longfellow Creek being something you BD: Oh, absolutely! JB: Did you play along that, too? BD: You bet we did. Then, I had a friend that lived only a little bit further south from where I live, probably in about the seven hundred block of Delridge. They had the creek very near them. We played a lot with frogs and there was a lady that lived nearby that was a bird lover. Maybe that s why I still love birds, I don t know. Taught us a lot about showing us different birds in the woods and bird nests and so forth. You forget about these things until you start talking about them! JB: Let s come back to the school, but still the idea of playground or recess. Did you have a play period during the school day? BD: Yes. JB: And what was that like? BD: Most of the time outside. I m trying to remember, if you had recess and it wasn t nice outside, I don t remember going to the gym. P.E. was a big part of the curriculum, too. You had P.E. together, boys and girls together in the gym. We always looked forward to that as we got a 5
little older. But we did just play games outside. They would have balls. Don t remember any basketball hoops outside. I mainly remember balls as a young child. We probably played tag, now that I think about it. On occasion, if it was nice, they would take us across the street to the park for our recess, too, because it was right there. We could play over there at the park. JB: Can you talk about the teachers? Do you remember the teachers that you had or any particular teacher? BD: I remember how fond I was of my kindergarten teacher. I really liked all the teachers. I just liked school, I really enjoyed school a lot. I was always ready to go. But as far as any one teacher, I can t say a particular teacher that had any big influence on my life. Probably the one I could picture the most, I think her name was Jennie Jones. I must have been old, like in sixth, seventh or eighth grade to be able to remember her. I don t remember why, I don t know if she made me feel so I just don t know. She wasn t a young lady but I remember having a very positive outlook. I think she was also the one, you had to take home ec while you were eighthgrader. We had to sew the dress that we were going to wear for our graduation picture. And to this day, I don t even like to thread a needle. [chuckling] It was a big deal! But we all had to make our dresses. JB: And wear them. BD: And wear them. Another thing I remember about home ec, which I did for a long time, I learned to make marshmallows in home ec. After I was older, I did that many times when I baby-sat. I would show the kids. I haven t done it for a long, long time, now that I think about it. JB: What did you make them out of? BD: Well, you made them out of egg whites and sugar. It was fun. You know, you d learn how to do that. JB: I assume that home ec was just for the girls? BD: I really can t remember because I know you could take home ec once you got to high school. Boys took home ec in high school. But I honestly don t remember. It seems like only girls took home ec and the boys took wood shop, or some type of shop [at Cooper]. JB: What about holidays at school? You mentioned May Day. Did you celebrate other holidays? BD: Oh, yes. We acknowledged Christmas. You acknowledged all the holidays. JB: Presidents Day? Lincoln s birthday I guess was a holiday? BD: Lincoln s birthday, Washington s birthday, I remember those. During the war, I kind of remember emphasis on taking care of what we had and following the rules. And maybe I 6
remember that more through my family, I m not too sure. I can remember we talked about it to make sure that you saved your cans and put them out on the street corner to be picked up for the war effort. I remember one strong earthquake we had that I was at the park, coming home on my bicycle. I remember the ground going up and down. I was probably seventh grade. Sixth, seventh, somewhere in there. I can t remember which one that was but I know I was at Cooper at that time. JB: Did you make it home OK? BD: I made it home fine. I was glad to get home. But you knew what was happening. JB: You did know? BD: You did know, yes. I remember a couple heavy snows, high snows while we were at Cooper. We were walking to school when they still kept the school open. The snow was pretty deep. I think if you look back, we used to get more snow it seems like. Up until now. Things changing. JB: I ve heard snow stories. BD: Yes. JB: What was your favorite room at the school? BD: Favorite room. Probably the gym because it was just fun. Oh, I remember the teacher there. That s right. Mr. [Tony] Allasina. He was just a great influence on youth, I think. He got everybody involved. It didn t matter how good you were. How poor you were. Everybody took part. JB: Do you remember anything about what happened when people got in trouble in school? BD: Real young, they d put them in the cloak room. I can remember them talking about being hit with the paddle. But I can t honestly remember any one person that I knew or could be an authority to say, yeah, they went into the principal s office and boy, did they get in trouble! I never even thought about it to this day. JB: Did you see any changes in the neighborhood as you were growing up? Or did it stay pretty much the same? BD: During my time there, it stayed pretty much the same. There weren t a lot of problems that developed in later years. During the war, it was a big change because they built all the projects on Delridge. So, we had a lot of families came in that were new. Just between where I lived and the school, there was a field that they put a dirigible there. In those locations, the men that manned them, they had very limited access to comforts. My parents volunteered for two men to come to our home on a regular basis and take baths. Then mother often cooked dinner for them or cooked a meal for them. They would come. We lived probably block and a half away. 7
JB: These were men who BD: In the army. JB: Were they related to the dirigibles? BD: Yes. That was their duty, to guard them and take care of them. JB: If you could sum up your experience at Cooper with one word, what would it be? BD: That s hard. One word? Future. It prepared me for a future that was wonderful. JB: What haven t we covered that you d like to talk about? Or the pictures that you have? BD: [explaining her photographs] This is a picture in front of the school, of my brother and I. I was obviously just about five years old. My brother took it upon himself to have our picture taken. We had gone down to the park to play. That s a picture of [my brother standing and me sitting on a pony]. JB: Yes. Where is this? Where did you find a pony? BD: In front of the school. Well, this is a man that went around and took pictures. Of course, my parents would never have had the picture taken because it wasn t something that was in the budget, to have something like that done. But when the pictures came, Mother had to buy the pictures. [laughing] So, that s how that ended up. I adore it! It s wonderful. There s pictures of the graduating class of the eighth grade. You can see us all in our nice little dresses that we made. Isn t that wonderful? JB: Did you get to choose, buy the fabric yourself? BD: Yes, we did get to buy the fabric. JB: And the styles? BD: No, they were all sack dresses. It had to be a simple pattern so that you wouldn t foul it up. Because nobody was a seamstress for sure. JB: A sack dress is something that just is straight and you put a belt over it. BD: You put a belt, yes. [chuckling] And I found this picture, too. On the back it says The Jolly Ten. This was in 1946 and there s ten of us girls. I can name all of them by looking at them now. Except one. I do know where several of them still are. One of the young ladies has passed away. She died when we were in eighth grade, which was unusual. JB: What did she die from? 8
BD: She had a tonsillectomy, complications from a tonsillectomy. She lived real close to the school, too. JB: So, these all went to Cooper? BD: They all went to Cooper, uh-huh. Then they also all went to West Seattle High School with me. JB: Did everyone from Cooper go to West Seattle High School then? BD: Yes. Of course, we went as ninth-graders when many of the kids that came to West Seattle, a lot of them went to James Madison Junior High. So, they came in as sophomores. We had a smaller freshman class because, at that time, we went up as freshman [and also students from Highland Park School]. JB: Because Cooper was K through eight but Madison Middle School went through ninth. BD: Correct. Then I also have a picture of my brother s graduating class and signatures from all the members of his class. He graduated in January of 1941. He graduated early. He skipped half a grade when he was in the seventh grade or something. They did that then because you went 1-A and 1-B or 6-A and 6-B. He skipped half a grade and consequently ended up graduating mid-term in January. JB: The boys, for their picture, I assume they didn t make anything but they all are wearing ties. BD: Yes, all are wearing ties. It used to be the requirement, or the expectation. In ours, they all had jackets it looked like in my graduating [class]. JB: But no ties. BD: But no ties. Well, here s [Mr. Roblee, the principal.] JB: I m not sure. I have heard other people talk about the change in principal. BD: I think he was the principal. I think Roblee, that s his name. That s what comes to mind. Lester Roblee. R-O-B-L-E-E. See, when I looked at these, then I can remember. JB: Looks like they still taught handwriting then. Everyone had such good handwriting. BD: Oh, yes. They did. They truly did have wonderful handwriting. I have a couple of pictures, too, from papers of my girlfriend and I with a young man. They spelled my name wrong in the paper. We were supporting him. He was competing when the paper used to have contests for throwing for football and so forth. So, we were out there to support him. They did a report. 9
JB: This picture has the boy in the middle and Betty. BD: And my friend. JB: Leavert, it says. And Barbara Johnson on the other side, looking very supportive, with your hands on your chin. There s also a photograph here of Jack O Brien, Delridge Champ, with a football and it s poised in his hand. BD: Right. And this was I m sorry I don t have a date on it but I know that if you went back, he was a teacher at Cooper. He was my brother s teacher, so it would have been in the late [19]30s. Engebretsen. JB: John Engebretsen? BD: Uh-huh. He was the teacher. JB: Spelled E-N-G-E-B-R-E-T-S-E-N [don t find him in the teacher list]. BD: And he was married. It was a big deal. They had a double wedding. His sister and he, they had a double wedding together. JB: Now, was it unusual to have a male teacher? BD: [sounding surprised] No, no. Because we had several male teachers. Although academically, maybe, it was unusual. Sports-wise, no. I mean as far as P.E., I don t ever remember having a female P.E. teacher. I didn t. Not until I got into high school. Now that you say it, I think about it. Right. I also brought some interesting things, I think. War ration books while I was in Cooper. What s kind of interesting to me, you had to give your height and your weight. If you couldn t sign for it, one of your parents had to sign for it, for your gas and your margarine and sugar. What else? I have my brother s also. JB: But you didn t use them all. BD: No, they didn t need all of mine. We were very conservative evidently. [chuckling] I don t know why. JB: [reading from the document] The United States of America Office of Price Administration, War Ration Book 4. BD: Um-hmm. It s kind of different because it was part of our life while we were there at Cooper. What had to go on during the war. JB: But these came to your family? Not through the school? BD: Not through the school. From your family, that s correct. Yes. I don t know if you re even interested in these. I had kept them [a small paperback]. In the eighth grade, you wrote 10
history of your life. Mine happened to be, This Life of Mine, talking about your beginnings and your future and what you hoped to do in your life. It s kind of interesting for me now to read to my grandchildren. They re all old enough, so they like to see what my thoughts were then, too. JB: And every eighth-grader did this? BD: Every eighth-grader did that, yes. This is from kindergarten. [flipping the pages of a scrapbook] This is a Christmas card I made for my mother. When I was in kindergarten, they did a silhouette of your profile. Wrote a little story and I should say, they had a poem that you copied and put in there. And there s a Christmas card to my mother. JB: Do you remember a Cooper School song by chance? BD: Cooper School song? JB: I saw one in the auditorium when we were there on a tour. BD: I don t remember any song. I have a play day ribbon from the park. JB: Third in [Tape cuts out] END OF AUDIOTAPE, SIDE A JB: Dunn, the Old Cooper School Oral History Project. November 17, 2003. And you were saying that this is a play day ribbon. It says May 24, 1946. Third and it s white. [Betty laughs] JB: And this was the certificate you mentioned, too. BD: Yes, it is, that I did mention. JB: Seattle Police Department, Junior Safety Division in the schools of Seattle. Seattle Junior Safety Patrol Merit Certificate to F.B. Cooper School, January 31, 1941, certifies that Frank Beavert served as a member of the above patrol for a period of two years and, at the time of presentation of this certificate, held the rank of captain. Is that your picture? BD: That is [my brother[. He was chosen to be on every certificate in the City of Seattle. JB: Oh, I see. Not everyone got their picture on it. Was it just boys who were patrol or were girls safety patrol? 11
BD: Don t ever remember girl safety patrols. JB: W.C. Marshall was principal at the time. BD: There were several principals during my stay there. Probably three different ones, if I remember right. JB: The principals were frequent changes. BD: I don t know. I just never even thought about it. JB: It was wartime. BD: Yes, that could very well have been. Yes. I did work in the office, I do remember that, too, the office of the elementary principal. Like when you were in the seventh or eighth grade, you could work in the office answering the phone, doing errands or taking papers, go getting students. That type of thing. JB: Were you there when Thelma DeWitty came to the school? She was the first African- American teacher. Started right after the war. BD: No, must have been after me. I don t remember her. No. We had very few African- American students. Maybe one. But it didn t matter, there was no oh, yes, there was too prejudice. Of course there was. There was prejudice. JB: Among the students? BD: Well, I won t say among the students. I guess just what you heard. I don t remember it being an emphasis. In my life, it certainly wasn t negative. You know, it just was you weren t around African-American people. JB: Now, was The Gulch associated with any particular group of people? BD: They were just tough! [laughing] Supposedly, not gangs, they were just tough. And again, how do you know? I never experienced any problems. I never knew anyone that was hurt or anything like that. My brother, he had many friends that lived there and, yet, I was allowed to go with him. He was going to the park, I d get on the back of his bike and go. Our friends came from out of The Gulch to play with us at the park. JB: Did you go up to Thirty-Fifth much? Was there a divide between the Delridge area and West Seattle? BD: Didn t even think about going up there. JB: It was too far away? 12
BD: Just too far away, yes. Occasionally, there would be something at Camp Long. That must have been through Girl Scouts or something like that I belonged to. We d go to Camp Long. But as far as activities in West Seattle, none. JB: The transition from Cooper to West Seattle High School, how did that go? BD: I felt it was fine. I didn t have any problems at all. We were just a few freshman up there. It seemed to be fine. We had to take the bus and transfer at Riverside because we had no school bus per se. You had to take public transit. JB: Transfer at Riverside? BD: There at Spokane... well, it was called Riverside. JB: Along the river? BD: Yes, just before you go over the old West Seattle bridge. JB: OK. Thank you. [Tape cuts out] END OF INTERVIEW OF BETTY BEAVERT DUNN ON NOVEMBER 17, 2003. 13