How to Apply Mindfulness to Your Life and Work

How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness Ram Dass, PhD - TalkBack - pg. 1 How to Apply Mindfulness to Your Life and Work How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness: Expanding Our Capacity to Give and Receive Unconditional Love a TalkBack Session with Joan Borysenko, PhD; Ron Siegel, PsyD; and Ruth Buczynski, PhD

How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness Ram Dass, PhD - TalkBack - pg. 2 A TalkBack Session: How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness: Expanding Our Capacity to Give and Receive Unconditional Love with Ruth Buczynski, PhD; Joan Borysenko, PhD; and Ron Siegel, PsyD Table of Contents (click to go to a page) What Stood Out Most... 3 How Every Kind of Suffering Can Make Us More Open... 4 Separating the Judging Mind from the Loving Soul... 6 How Loving-Kindness Meditation Brings Loving-Awareness Identification... 7 Conscious Aging and Taking Refuge... 8 About the Speakers... 10

How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness Ram Dass, PhD - TalkBack - pg. 3 A TalkBack Session: How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness: Expanding Our Capacity to Give and Receive Unconditional Love with Ruth Buczynski, PhD; Joan Borysenko, PhD; and Ron Siegel, PsyD Dr. Buczynski: Wow that was an incredible session. I am so eager to hear what the two of you thought and your insights into what Ram Dass said. Let s start with you, Joan: what stood out to you in the interview? What Stood Out Most Dr. Borysenko: His equanimity and loving-kindness totally stood out. Ram Dass has always been such a brilliant teacher and psychologist, and it is always amazing to see, when he describes everything that he lost with the stroke the sports car, the golf, and everything else that he has been able to turn that into a spiritual teaching that he lives, and it has made him such a pure teacher. There is simplicity because his language is slow. He chooses his words very, very carefully. Then, there is his good humor, his lightness, and his spaciousness really moves through. The pureness and simplicity with which he discusses the difference The pureness and simplicity with which he discusses the difference between role and soul is really explicit. between role and soul is really explicit. I thank you so much, Ruth, for that interview. I think it was very instructive for all of us. He is a great role model. Dr. Buczynski: How about you, Ron what stood out to you? Dr. Siegel: I had similar feelings to this. First of all, it s Ram Dass he is the guy who, for so many of us, introduced us to the notion that it might be possible to be here now a bit more, and he has been such a His ability to take a difficult experience and use it as a learning experience is just inspirational. leader this way. His ability to take a difficult experience and use it as a learning experience is just inspirational. Here he was, this extremely bright, verbally gifted and funny guy, loved by so many because of his talents, and he lost so much of it but he has managed

How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness Ram Dass, PhD - TalkBack - pg. 4 to use it as a spiritual teaching. I still remember him talking early on after his stroke I don't think he mentioned this in the session about being wheeled into the emergency room by the EMTs. He was trained as a psychologist so he knew he had had a serious brain incident, and he said, There I was, Mr. Spiritual and I ve got to tell you, I wasn t feeling very spiritual! I m imagining myself in his shoes, not feeling very spiritual to have gone from that shock, the mourning, and the losses involved in this and to say, Well, what can I learn from this? He tells us that what he learned from this was that none of the stuff of what he had and we are not just talking about material goods here but even the sense of faculties and human abilities is really who he feels he is. He noticed that that made up all of the attachments that were unnecessary to him. It reminds me of this wonderful Tibetan saying that says, Looking for Looking for happiness in things outside of the self is a lot like looking for sunshine in a northfacing cave. happiness in things outside of the self is a lot like looking for sunshine in a north-facing cave. It actually doesn t work very well and it is because we are looking in the wrong place. The other thing that really struck me and we will talk about this perhaps a little bit later is his emphasis on soul. For those of us who are a little bit more steeped in Western or Buddhist psychology, neither of those traditions talk about there being a soul. I find myself grappling and trying to feel what it would be like to go through the world as though everybody I met had a soul and the soul was simply manifesting right now in this incarnation and it has a very interesting psychological effect in terms of connecting to others. I also found that very valuable. How Every Kind of Suffering Can Make Us More Open Dr. Buczynski: One of the things that struck me was how he was talking about the opportunities that he has to increase his mindfulness after his stroke and perhaps to some extent as a result of his stroke.

How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness Ram Dass, PhD - TalkBack - pg. 5 Joan, how can we learn to be mindful without having a stroke? Dr. Borysenko: There are infinite ways that we suffer, Ruth. Having a stroke is just one of them: we have financial reversals, we have relationship problems, and we have the suffering of other people that can make us suffer as well. The teaching here that I heard so strongly from Ram Dass is that every kind of suffering every kind of setback can be used as a way to become more loving, more aware, and more mindful. For example, back in 2008 right after the stock market crashed, I was giving a presentation at a success conference not the kind of conference I m often at! There were two people who were volunteering at the conference. One of them was a very successful person and he had just lost all of Every kind of suffering every kind of setback can be used as a way to become more loving, more aware, and more mindful. his money, and he was already suffering terribly with every kind of psychosomatic problem and dwelling in regret over what he had done and hadn t done. The second person reported it to me like this: Well, I lost the big mansion that I lived in with my family. We ve had to move, all four of us, to a small two-bedroom apartment and it s so interesting; I m so curious, she said to me, about how it is that we are going to do as a family here about the new business that I can take part in. They were telling themselves two very different stories. One was the story of the world has come to an end and the other was an open, curious story about, I wonder what s going to manifest next. We all have those choices throughout our lives and in a smaller way, throughout each day. We are always telling ourselves stories that either open up the ground of possibility or close it down. Hearing a story like Ram Dass s is very important because it cuts through resistance. People will frequently say, You re going to tell yourself a different story perhaps but my situation is really We are always telling ourselves stories that either open up the ground of possibility or close it down. bad. When you look at Ram Dass s situation, it s hard to mobilize that kind of thinking. You realize it must be possible for us all to draw back from our stories and be present in a different way.

How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness Ram Dass, PhD - TalkBack - pg. 6 Separating the Judging Mind from the Loving Soul Dr. Buczynski: Yes. Ron, Ram Dass talked about separating the judging mind from the loving soul but I would say that is easier said than done. How can we cultivate this approach and particularly, how can we cultivate this approach with people that we don't like or maybe people who have caused us harm in the past? Dr. Siegel: We were talking the other night about self-judgments and another whole source of problematic judgments are the judgments we have toward others, particularly toward others who have hurt us in some way. Who, actually, is the person? Is it the behavior we are seeing or is there something underneath? I think Ram Dass s emphasis on soul becomes very interesting here. Who, actually, is the person? Is it the behavior we are seeing or is there something underneath? I like to think of this developmentally. If a one- or two-year-old child misbehaves, most of us don't think, How evil. What a terrible person. They should be ashamed of themselves. Most of us think, Gee, I wonder what factors and conditions and forces are causing this child to behave this way. The child must be suffering in some way. Something must be difficult for him or her. Yet if our twenty-odd-year-old child starts to behave in a way which is nasty or cantankerous, we may be far When do we start blaming others for their behavior as opposed to seeing it as a natural result of environment and genetics and the way that any psychologist would view behavior? more judgmental; we may tend to think, How could they do this to me after all I ve done for them? This is particularly so if it is one of our own kids right? Where does that shift take place? When do we start blaming others for their behavior as opposed to seeing it as coming together as a natural result of, basically, environment and genetics and the way that any psychologist would view behavior? One technique we can use with this is simply to take whoever we are struggling with and begin to ask, How are they suffering? What is causing them to behave in this way? We might even imagine them as a young child evolving from being very young to the point at which they are currently behaving in the way they are behaving.

How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness Ram Dass, PhD - TalkBack - pg. 7 A similar way to approach this, which I will often do, is to say, If I were behaving the way that person is behaving, what might I be feeling inside? The reality is, all the times that I have behaved like a jerk in the world, it is usually coming out of some kind of suffering it is because I m insecure about something, or I m frightened about something, or I m hurt in some way and as soon as I start trying that on, I realize it is very likely that that is what is happening for the other person as well. Once we have felt the anger for a bit, these techniques can be very helpful. Of course, when we do this, we don't want to do a spiritual bypass. We don't want to jump immediately to, Oh, I forgive everybody who s ever hurt me before we first feel the anger. But once we have felt the anger for a bit, I think these techniques can be very helpful. How Loving-Kindness Meditation Brings Loving-Awareness Identification Dr. Buczynski: Thanks. Joan, Ram Dass talked about identifying oneself as loving-awareness. We have talked about loving-kindness meditation is that the same? Or how are they different? Dr. Borysenko: They are different. Loving-kindness meditation is a way of opening the door to that feeling in your heart where you really are loving-awareness itself. We have all had the experience of that physical sensation of our heart actually opening. Ram Dass says, Point to your heart Put your finger in your chest and repeat, I am loving-awareness. I am loving-awareness, is sharing the fruits of his own long practice and loving-awareness is part of that practice. When he points at his chest like that, physically, he is saying, I am loving-awareness, and what he is doing is sharing the fruits of his own long practice and loving-awareness is part of that practice. I would like to just go back a little bit and remind our listeners about something that Jack Kornfield has suggested. He was saying one way of practicing loving-kindness is to think about a person who loves you very, very, very much and to do the loving-kindness blessings for that person with the sense of them doing it for you. That opens up the sense of loving-kindness in the heart that is another portal.

How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness Ram Dass, PhD - TalkBack - pg. 8 Once you have done a practice like that, or any other kind of practice even the kind of practice, Ron, you were just talking about, when, instead of judging somebody, you are thinking, What must their inner experience be? What kind of suffering does this come from? again, you feel this sense of loving-awareness in your heart, and little by little, you can recognize it as definitely a state of being. But at some point, certainly if you are Ram Dass, you recognize it as more than a state it is a trait. Loving-awareness is a manifestation of your true nature of compassion, awareness, and loving-kindness. Loving-awareness is an actual place a manifestation of your true nature of compassion, awareness, and loving-kindness. He demonstrates that so beautifully: I am loving-awareness itself. Conscious Aging and Taking Refuge Dr. Buczynski: Yes. Ron, let s talk a little bit about conscious aging, both within ourselves and with the people we work with. How can we encourage conscious aging? Dr. Siegel: Ram Dass is a wonderful example of this. I remember him saying some years ago that when he was a younger man, he helped guide a generation of younger people to figure out how to live that stage of life now he hopes to be the pioneer for these later stages of life. He is being a wonderful model that way. A big part of aging is a constant letting go of attachments to how things were previously. I like to think that we can take refuge in reality by asking if we are resisting some aspect of aging the body changing, losing mental faculties, our friends dying, all the things that happen with aging and we will be able to some degree take these as lessons as well. I like to think that we will be able to ask, What identity or what vision of the world have I been clinging to, and how is this reality challenging that and can I let go of it? A big part of aging is a constant letting go of attachments to how things were previously. I think of the research that I did with Chris Germer, in putting together a book on wisdom and compassion in psychotherapy, and in particular, we ask: Do people get wiser as they get older? The answer is a resounding

How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness Ram Dass, PhD - TalkBack - pg. 9 sometimes. Sometimes people just become crustier and more stuck in their defenses more stuck in their points of view. But other times, they open up, they identify with a world much larger than themselves, and they become very flexible and deeply accepting of what is happening. There are exercises that can help us with this. There is a wellknown set of reflections in the Buddhist tradition called five subjects for frequent reflection. Sometimes people become more stuck in their defenses. But other times, they become very flexible and deeply accepting. Here are the first three. I m sure to grow old aging is inevitable. I m sure to become ill sickness is inevitable. I m sure to die death is inevitable. Then, this may be even harder for many of us, All things near and dear to me are going to leave either because they grow old and die or they will depart from me. There are exercises that can help us called five subjects for frequent reflection. Finally, I am the owner of and heir to my actions that what I do in the world today will have repercussions. Initially, we might think that putting our face right into these things would be terribly dismal, but I don't think it needs to be. I remember visiting a monastery in Thailand that was like a death theme park. They had skulls instead of ashtrays on the tables and literal skeletons hanging up on the walls and these people were, every day, contemplating that, It s just a matter of moments. This is a very short journey. But they were not a depressed lot! They were using this to really appreciate this moment this day. So I think that is what conscious aging looks like. Dr. Buczynski: Thanks. That again wraps up this session.

How to Help People Connect to Loving Awareness Ram Dass, PhD - TalkBack - pg. 10 About the speakers... Joan Borysenko, PhD has been described as a respected scientist, gifted therapist, and unabashed mystic. Trained at Harvard Medical School, she was an instructor in medicine until 1988. Currently the President of Mind/Body Health Sciences, Inc., she is an internationally known speaker and consultant in women s health and spirituality, integrative medicine and the mind/ body connection. Joan also has a regular 2 to 3 page column she writes in Prevention every month. She is the author of nine books, including New York Times bestsellers. Ron Siegel, PsyD is an Assistant Clinical Professor of Psychology at Harvard Medical School, where he has taught for over 20 years. He is a long time student of mindfulness mediation and serves on the Board of Directors and faculty for the Institute for Medication and Therapy. Dr. Siegel teachers nationally about mindfulness and psychotherapy and mind/body treatment, while maintaining a private practice in Lincoln, MA. He is co-editor of Mindfulness and Psychotherapy and co-author of Back Sense: A Revolutionary Approach to Halting the Cycle of Chronic Back Pain.