Interview with Craig Hodges

Interview with Craig Hodges During his ten years in the NBA, Craig Hodges achieved many great successes as a player, winning two NBA Finals championships with the Chicago Bulls and three consecutive Three- Point Contest titles at the NBA s All- Star Weekend. As an activist, he fought for and continues to fight for many of the most vulnerable in American society. The following is a transcript of Craig Hodges interview with Brian Burmeister on May 5, 2017. BB: Hi, this is Brian Burmeister with the Sport Literature Association. Today I m joined by Craig Hodges, one of the greatest three- point shooters in NBA history. He recently wrote and released the book Long Shot: The Triumphs and Struggles of an NBA Freedom Fighter. Thank you so much for joining me here today, Craig. CH: Appreciate it, man. BB: The book itself really explores your whole life, from your upbringing, through your college and NBA careers, all the way up through today. Much of the early part of the book focuses on your upbringing in Chicago Heights. Would you be willing to talk us through the role your family and the community itself played in shaping your mind and your values. CH: I appreciate it man. Once again just thanking God for an opportunity to speak about things that have been pertinent in my life. And nothing more pertinent than the family and the community that I was raised in. I wouldn t change it for anything in the world. Knowing that it was truly a village. To know that everybody cared. We lived in the projects where we didn t lock our doors, didn t have a key for our house when we moved out, stuff like that, memories that I know shaped how I think about life. And to be a baby and be part of the Civil Rights Movement. Seeing the activities that were going on not only in my household but within the community, it was part of my constitution early in life. To be able to go on and study, and my aunts were sticklers, as well as my mom and my sister, about me being able to read and write. And knowing the importance of that in comparison to my uncles, who taught me how to play sports, it was a good balance. I had the best of both worlds. I had a good educational support group, and I had an awesome sports group. So it was one of those things where I was destined to do what I m doing. So I feel good for that. BB: Wonderful. Certainly I feel that background influenced heavily the choices you were making throughout your career itself. As one of the most vocal activists of your era of the NBA, were you surprised at all by the hesitation you received from other players when you were advocating for certain causes? CH: At that point in my career, not really. Because, honestly speaking, I knew what I was up against. I would share with every player that I played with, basically for my ten- year career, what I was studying. And what I was studying all the time was something that was of a conscious perspective, something that most of the time was counter what you would learn in college, and it was more of a perspective of looking at things from history. History is usually taught on three levels: you have a perpetrator, you have a collaborator, and you have a victim. And the history books aren t told from the victim s perspective.

It s told from the perspective of people who conquered. And I think from that perspective I ve always been for the underdog, I ve always been for the oppressed, I ve always been for the masses, and I m with the masses. So from that standpoint, I ve looked at things from the alternate side of things. Often times I would share that, and it would be some great conversations, throughout my career, and it continues to be that. And I just think that at that period of time players were more cognizant of how much money they could make in this short opportunity in life, which is cool. But me, it was more of a thing where I understood the perspective of using the power, the visibility of being an NBA player to try to galvanize support for those issues that people in the inner- cities were facing. BB: One of the most famous moments where you were doing everything you could to be a voice for the voiceless was when you gave then President George H.W. Bush a handwritten letter during the Bulls championship visit to the White House. In the 25 years since there have been a whole lot of assumptions made about the contents of that letter. And so I was wondering if you would be willing to share with us here today what actually did you write to the President? CH: Well basically, it was so crazy in 2015 I was approached by a guy who was doing a thing for ESPN 30 for 30. And he wanted to do it about the letter. So we got together. Did all the filming. And they never released it. And it s been over two years now. So it s funny how the letter is pertinent to today and how the NBA won t allow it to come out. It s something that s striking to me, but I love it. I love it because it puts me on the right side of history. But the letter entailed basically it said, Dear Mr. President, I appreciate the invite for coming to this great edifice, understanding that I wouldn t get a chance to come unless I was part of a championship team. That being the case I want to thank you for this opportunity. But also I want to make sure that I speak on behalf of those who are disenfranchised, those who are voiceless, those who wouldn t get a chance to come here, like me being raised in the projects, I would have never had a chance to come here. And that being the case I want to make sure that you consider the issues of poor people, people who don t feel like they have any hope, and especially I want to speak on behalf of the African Americans who have been here under four years of free labor, and our issues need to be heard, as well as those of foreign policy. So would you consider these issues the same way you would consider foreign policy. And we re not being infringed, we just want a partner. So it wasn t anything that was disrespectful at all, and the garment that I went in was totally in line with a royal occasion. So it was one of those things that was looked at as being a slap in the face to the NBA and to the President. But President Bush was totally cool on that day. That s what s so funny when people are like, Man, Bush got you blackballed. Nah, man, I don t know what it was, I can t speak to it, but I just know I was taught to accept people for face value, and on that day he was cool to me. You know, I understand his politics and his policies. But as a human being, on October 1, 1991, George Bush was cool with me. BB: Certainly I think the culmination of that letter and some of the other things like trying to get Michael Jordan and Magic Johnson to boycott the NBA Finals, for example- - all of those things in context paint a picture where certainly there is a compelling case, and you make it in your book, that the NBA did blackball you. And so looking at things now, 25 years later, and you have players like LeBron James and Carmelo Anthony who are much more vocal and visible in their advocacy for certain causes. In those 25 years that have passed between then and now, what do you think are the main factors in the league s acceptance of activist athletes?

CH: I think one of the biggest things is when you talk about just the sheer economics of it. The sheer economics of knowing that you have 30 to 40 million in the bank. Knowing that you have another contract coming. You re in a political climate where you can speak. You have a safety net of social media, you have a safety net of that million people who will speak on your behalf, even if it s from far from afar. So it s a different climate. But at the same time I think so many of these same issues are still relevant. And even more so when we look at Chicago where this year we have already had over 1000 shootings or something crazy like that. So I think the issues are still prevalent, now it s just a matter of how as an athlete or an entertainer, how can you tight rope it? I call it tight roping because you have to play the corporate game and you have to be where you re from. And that s the part where I think you have to play this corporate role, but the natural, spiritual self is in a quandary, because we can do more, and we know we should be doing more, so it s a work in progress. And I applaud all those athletes like Kobe, Kaepernick, LeBron, D- Wade, the players who have spoken during the ESPYs, Carmelo whose a constant voice, we need to continue that. Like Dr. King told us, being a drumbeat, and the drum major for justice. BB: We ve come some ways in the past 25 years, and certainly we re seeing more athletes take that role now. Do you still think, looking at the situation, that it s just the superstars like the LeBrons, like the Dwayne Wades who are protected when they take that activist role? CH: The thing is, you look at that level of player that you spoke about, that would almost coincide with the level of players well we can break it down this way. When you go into a sporting goods store, what players are you going to see that s relevant? You going to LeBron. You going to see Curry. You going to see Harden. You going to see Westbrook. You re only going to see a certain percentage of players. Those are the players that have corporate endorsements. Those are the players that are somewhat protected. To a degree. But it depends on what types of action they make. Endorsements can be gone in a heartbeat, depending on what your action is. We haven t measured what level of ramification comes against an athlete of a LeBron s status if he decided to do something on a heavier level. Say he gets to the Finals and boycotts, knowing that that s the only time where we can truly affect ownership is at Playoffs and at All- Star Weekend. So now we re at that point in the Finals where true concessions are made where owners have to put their money where their mouth is. And as far as these issues concerning poor people, those disenfranchised, people who have been oppressed for the most part they need to start speaking to that issue. We haven t discussed it, because I don t know if players have really taken the serious, serious time to look at how we have a social protest, how do we handle civil disobedience and social disobedience. Those are the things and those are the measures I studied in college. So my movement was trying to get more players I tried to get all my teammates to wear a dashiki to the White House. None of them took it. They took it as, Nah, Hodge, that s you. But until we move as a rank- and- file of player, so you can have the upper echelon speaking, but we have to have that 11 th and 12 th player also speaking. One of the things with Colin Kaepernick when he did it, how many players in the locker room felt the same way that could have had his back and made even more of a solid protest of it. But you left him out there to his own, and that s not cool. BB: That moment of solidarity would have made all the difference in the world. CH: And that s the thing, you can capture that moment, we ve seen it around the world. We saw it in Poland with Lech Walesa and what he was able to do with the Polish people. We ve seen it in Romania in 1989 when they did things in their movement. We saw it in the Arab Spring. We ve seen it. And it s

disappointing when people are so upset with the hierarchy of things. We see it in America with the Black Lives Matter and with Occupy Wall Street. We see it. We see the women in the street against some of the Trump policies. So we see the social dissatisfaction of status quo, knowing there s that enough for everybody. My position is to much is given much is required. If you have a social media group that s two, three- million people, you have a platform. So we have to utilize it correctly. BB: One of the questions that I don t think gets asked enough is piggy- backing on where we ve been, is that everybody listening to this interview at home we re everyday people, we re not superstars, we re not NBA players, we don t have that microphone. So within our own lives, within our own homes, within our own communities, what advice do you have for the everyday people, the good folks listening? CH: One of the most interesting things that I ve been experiencing when I was writing the book, that I didn t really think about, like now, when I m doing interviews about it all I wanted to do, they told me I had to have 50,000 words, brother, so I wasn t thinking about no posters, none of that. But in the context of how it s been rolled out and taken a life of its own, you and me probably wouldn t have spoken if I hadn t written a book. So these types of friendships and journalistic type things happen, and it s been so eye- opening for me. The majority of people who ve bought my book are Caucasian. I was in Evanston, Illinois doing a book signing and discussion because the way I like to do it is I don t have a pre- statement, just questions and answers. So we can start a conversation. So within the conversation the question of white privilege arises. And a lady probably 45 years old says, It hasn t been until the last six months that I realized I was white privileged and that I was raising my children under an idea of that white privilege. And it was so shocking to me how subtle it was, and how easy it was for me not to truly think about how privileged I was. So it s certain things like that that have been eye- opening for me, that have been cool from the standpoint that conversations are happening, different people are looking at things from a slightly different angle. And I hope that my book has played a role in continuing the conversation towards a solution. As opposed to continuing the conversation for confrontation and combativeness and beefin. It s not about beefin. It s about us getting together and having some type of solutions for this next generation. BB: In terms of looking to that next generation, one of the things and there s certainly many that makes your story so special, is that your life has really come full circle now. You re back coaching basketball at your former high school, where you played at Rich East. Outside of the game of basketball itself and how to be amazing three- point shooters, what are those life lessons that you re hoping to instill in your young players? CH: The biggest thing is how valuable every time is we look at it in basketball sense, we say value the basketball, value the possession, value your life, value your next step, value the opportunity to have a chance to make decisions, now value getting the proper information to make correct decisions. So there s certain things I try to get to them and look at, and say my new level and how you can affect your own life s potential by making just a stupid, stupid, stupid mistake that you don t even think is going to affect anything in your life. But it ends up affecting everything that you can possibly do in the future. So it s a day to day, man. It s a day to day. So like today, like tonight, we ll be in the gym at seven o clock. And that s what it s about. Making sure that during those hours when things can go down, we want them to be going down to the gym. You know what I mean? We want them to be going down with us shooting jump shots not guns. We want them to be going down with us making conscious reads on the court. Making conscious reads in our class. And knowing that when I m making these reads and I m out

here on the streets, we re being conscious about the reads we make out here, too. That I m making a read not to go hang out on the corner with these brothers hanging out. So it s certain things that we have a choice, and we have to get them to feel like that they re in a position now where they can make conscious choices because they have been informed properly. BB: You ve got a hands- on role with those young men. Looking forward, 10, 20 years in the future, what are your hopes for the future? CH: I think the biggest thing is just peace. I think until we get peace and we get off of this aggressive mentality, until we get off of this you- versus- us mentality, and never saying who they are and the transparency thing, it s certain things that I feel the generation that is in this millennial that they calling it, I feel like they have a certain spirit about being right one to another. And I think that the old guard is really fighting not to let that energy come through. And I think we have to continue to maintain that, feed that hey man, I love humanity. So if it s a brother who s next to a white brother, we can do what we need to do as people. Now once those actions start to permeate hate, permeate hurt and Dr. King always tried to monitor about the evil triplets of racism, militarism and economic exploitation. If we can just always guard against those I think we can maintain good balance in life and move forward. My hope it ain t even hope, man my knowing is that it s going to be peace on Earth. And in knowing that, I m operating in that mindset and nothing else. So I m not operating in a mindset where I got a whole bunch of guns. I got no weapon. My weapon is I feel the force of the Creator and the creation of if I m on the right side of things, no weapon formed can prosper. So we have to dwell in that. BB: As many of our listeners and readers both are fans of literature and in many cases are writers themselves, can you talk us through the writing process that you went through in putting Long Shot together? CH: For me, I m an avid writer and I m like a lot of your listeners and your audience as far as appreciating writing for what writing is, appreciate it for how much of a lost art when we talk about keyboards and the like. It s something where when we pick up a piece of paper and a pen, and for me when I started a journey to write 50,000 words, I ve written well over 50,000 words in college and I have books written already, but they re not structured. And that s the biggest part of this process for me is seeing the structure. Seeing the ability to instead of just writing that I m sitting in the room, but to actually make that room come to life in somebody else s eyes through the words you put on paper. That s so cool to me. To be able to structure things and sentences and paragraphs, and to be able to get someone to visually see what you want them seeing. And they get it. And I think that s been the biggest thing, man, is to be able to finally see my book in the library. To see my book in a bookstore. And to know that it was a journey and a process. And to anybody out there, don t get discouraged by the process. Just understand that you have to be crystalized in your focus on your story. And that s was the thing that I was always confronted with in the ten rewrites that I did, before I got with somebody who showed me the process, who was Rory Fanning who was from Haymarket Books. And we got together and he showed me, You know Hodge, you got good stuff, but it s got to be focused. Sometimes maybe I have the tendency to go in the abstract and he d pull me back in. He d put the focus on making sure the story every story has a whole lot of parts, but not all the parts need to be in your book. And that s the thing that as a writer you have to know at some point you can t please everybody. And that in writing you ve got to write to what you re passionate about. And stay within that passion of which you re writing towards, and you ll get done. And when you get done, you ll be happy with the process as well as

the work. For me, I feel like when I look at my book, at my jump shot on the cover, it s so cool because my jump shot is almost indicative of the work I put into writing. It s the same type of energy that I had to it started with a thought, and then that thought went into a sentence, and now we re up to 10,000 words, and now we cut down, we at a 1,000 words to see the process and know that it has to be a process it s not just going to be, I m going to sit down and I m going to write and then I m going to come out with a book. It s a little bit bigger than that. That s not a real big portion of it, but that s just a small portion of it. There s a lot of other stuff that goes into it. And the biggest part is, don t get discouraged about it, and stay with it. Because if it s in your heart and in your mind to do it, do it. BB: 28:40 - You ve got an incredible story to tell, the book itself is quite incredible as well. Any chance at all we ll see a second book in the future? CH: No doubt. Actually, I have two more. I have one that I m writing and it s called, Apology to the Women. And it s based on me being able to apologize to any woman that I ve hurt in my life, as well as to any family members that I may have stepped on toes, as well as for people who haven t been able to apologize to women for what they may have done. Right now I m in the process of doing what I might call almost a survey just to see what type of things have happened in their lives that they felt like they someone should have been apologizing for, and they didn t get that apology. So I want to apologize on behalf of the person who didn t. It this works like that, I have a couple of after books that I m working on. I m working on one with Tex Winter s son, so that we can do a tribute to him, as far as the triangle is concerned. I love writing, man. BB: Wonderful. I certainly look forward to those books. And in general, I just want to thank you so much here today for taking your time to CH: I appreciate you, brother. BB: Thank you so much, this has been a true honor to me. CH: Tell all your listeners, have a blessed weekend and be peaceful and safe. BB: Wonderful, thank you so much again, Craig. CH: No doubt. Peace. Craig Hodges autobiography, Long Shot: The Triumphs and Struggles of an NBA Freedom Fighter, is available from Amazon.com and other major book retailers.