GOALS To grow in our understanding of the Islamic faith To better love the people in our city of Islamic faith To be better equipped in our hearts and heads to address and communicate with Muslim people TIPS Try to help people grapple with the possibilities of having respectful relationships and conversations with Muslims, more than trying to completely equip them for the task Consider stories that you could share that will get the conversation started Consider looking over the notes from Sunday s sermon For this series we re leaning a little more on the Sunday sermon so encourage your group not to miss Sunday meetings DISCUSSION 1. Who here has any Muslim friends? Do you understand what they believe? What did Sunday s sermon add to your understanding? 2. What is your understanding of the difference between tolerance and respect? (after some contributions, discuss why respect is more important than tolerance when considering other faiths) 3. What is it about Muslim people s lives and convictions that you respect? 4. How has media shaped your view of Islam and how have your interactions with them or Sundays sermon changed your view of it? 5. Although there are similarities between Christianity and Islam, what are the notable differences in the two religions? 6. A portion of the Quran says this in Surah 23:1-2 - Then those whose balance of good deeds is heavy they will attain salvation. Those whose balance is light. They will lose their souls in hell will they abide. Another verse says that good deeds blot out evil deeds. a. Break into pairs for an exercise: Which scripture verses in the bible respond well to this conviction of the Muslim faith? b. Give your group some time to do this and then let them read their scriptures out loud to the group (See notes for some suggestions of where guys can look)
7. Considering the gospel of unmerited grace, how would that inform a conversation about your faith with a Muslim person, what characteristics should you display in that conversation if you are going to grow the friendship, deepen trust, and remain true to your convictions? 8. How can we as people grow in our love for, instead of our judgment of people of the Muslim faith? NOW SPEND A FEW MINUTES PRAYING Pray prayers that align to your answers in questions 7 & 8 asking God to equip and strengthen you as a group to love and care for your Muslim friends and acquaintances. NOTES Q 6 see some references if your group might struggle to find Romans 3 Romans 5 Romans 11 2 Corinthians 12 Ephesians 2 2 Thessalonians 2 Titus 3 John 3 Romans 8 Galations 2 Hebrews 4 INTRO: ISLAM TALK About the series. The two reasons we re doing this series. About me. A thank you for any Muslims present. I m sure you could do this talk better than me Islam is not monolithic - FACTS ABOUT ISLAM: What Muslims believe 1) The belief that there is no God but Allah, and Mohammed is his final prophet - In Arabic religion, there were many gods but there was a supreme God his name is Allah so he took that name and gave new meaning.
2) Islam means submission. God, the Creator and Judge, is supreme the only worthy response it to submit our entire lives to him and to the revelations that came through Mohammed. 3) Judgment is coming and God will send people to either hell or heaven, depending on what we believe and how we behave, and ultimately depending on Allah s sovereign choice. 4) God has revealed himself through the prophets starting with Noah and Abraham and including many of the prophets mentioned in the Old Testament and then through Jesus. 5) Islam is the heart of true religion at the core of true Judaism and Christianity is Islam but Jews and Christians have distorted the Scriptures and so God needed to send it one last time through Mohammed. There are 5 main pillars 1) Profession of faith: There is no God but Allah and Mohammed is his final prophet 2) Prayer fives times a day: believers are to pray five times a day facing Mecca but only after washing of arms, feet, mouth and nostrils. The prayers are generally set prayers of praise and adoration. Every Friday they meet for a prayer service at the Mosque, with two sermons by trained laymen. Women sit separately to men, though women generally don t attend. 3) Almsgiving: Depending on the sect of Islam, they give anything from 2,5% to 20% of their income to support the Muslim needy. 4) Fasting during Ramadan for a full month Muslims abstain from food, drink, liquids, tobacco and sex from first light to full darkness. 5) If possible, a pilgrimage to Mecca. How many? 1,3 billion Muslims - Where they live North Africa and Middle East but most live elsewhere:120 mil in sub-sahara Africa, 150 mil in India, 163 mil in Pakistan and 210 mil in Indonesia, the most populous. How they re growing? Fast-growing second only to the Pentecostals of Christianity - many factors for its growth, main one being child birth! In the largest Muslim countries the average woman has 6 children! SA 1,5% of the population is Muslim but in the last 15 years has doubled in size, through child birth, and through conversions especially in the townships. The book they re based on? The Quran 114 chapters called Surah - long shortest to longest Muslims believe it effectively 114 dictations from God through Mohammed.
It doesn t capture much narrative the story of Mohammed for example for that you must look to the Hadith the collected sayings and deeds of Mo. The Bible many books written by different people. The Quran one book. / The Bible the word of God through the words of men God used the personalities and experiences and levels of education of the writers still getting his message across / the Quran, however, Muslims believe that Mohammed s personality or experience played no part at all in it. Total dictation. The reason Salmon Rusdie got in trouble with his novel, The Satanic Verses is book his novel questioned the total dictation. He implied there may have alterations. The title comes from the phrase Satanic verses referring to the Islamic tradition which tells us that early in his prophetic life Mohammed received a revelation that besides the one God there were 3 goddesses. Later he claimed the devil had given him distorted revelation so he insisted they be removed from the earliest Quran. Started by Mohammed - 22 crucial years in the life of Mohammed. Romans Xnity was en vogue. Except for 1 part of the world Saudia Arabia (called Arabia then). They were aware that Jews had a book. As did Jesus. Moses and Abraham were prophets. People generally grew up knowing little bits of knowledge about Jews and Christians all the evidence is there that Mohammed, though illiterate, had spent time with various people who had explained various aspects and stories of these religions to him not much detail but a little. While Europe was becoming centralized, Arab peninsula was filled with warring tribes where there was no economy, govt tribal lords each with own gods, even multiple gods traded with each other, but no unified govt or religion. As the Christians and Jews moved there, there was relative peace but there was this sense of being left out other regions were moving ahead with this new religion and their own Scriptures but not us. 610 that changed in month of Ramadan. 40 th birthday - Came from a cave in a mountain and said he had a revelation depending on who you read although at first he thought it may have been an evil spirit - he eventually he came to conclusion it was Gabriel. He could not read or write so he recited to his wife and cousin (a Christian) the revelation. They began to write it down. For 2 or 3years depressed, suicidal, Gabriel kept assuring him he was a messenger - he d come back from the cave they wrote it down it was a secret.
After a few years he started to talk about these revelations. His intent was at that time was not to start a new religion he believed history is open to interpretation read for yourself he believed that he was God s mouthpiece for the Arab people in much the same way God has spoken through Moses to the Jews. It was the same God. In his mind, there was no conflict between Mohammed and Christians / Jews. His focus was on the polytheistic, pagan, idol-worshipping Arabs. Because Christians and Jews already knew about God. When he began to preach publicly and call people to repentance and prayer he had them kneel and face the city of Jerusalem. It was the Holy City. Moses and Abraham and Jesus they all got revelation there. In his mind his revelations were an extension of what had happened there. In his earliest teachings focal point he focused on the injustice he saw in Arabic culture a few rich landowners who were abusive to poor people. A lack of righteousness he gathered a people around him who cared about the poor. He taught much about judgment and giving an account because in that culture the thought was that there may not be any afterlife or what it was like so rich people did what they wanted to do Mo shows up and says, there is a judgment and you will give an account he became a champion for justice and righteousness in Arab society. Some loved him. Some believed that would get in the way of their livelihood. 616 persecution against Mo they passed a law no one can marry or do business with a follower of Mo. We tend to think that if you re Arabic your Islam. But to start Muslims were a tiny group. It was difficult. They were poor. He lost followers. In 622, he and about 70 families went to Medina, north 250 miles North. The people of Mecca tribal leaders were happy to see him go! In Medina several interesting things happened: 622 -In the area of median there were several Jewish tribes that were part of the culture. They were peaceful. One of those Jewish tribes took him in. There he learnt more
about Judaism. He was methodically exposed to the teachings of the Old Testament. Many scholars believe that Mo believed Ab to be the greatest prophet it was only after his death that he was exalted by his followers above Ab. Jews got there through Moses and Ab. Christians through Jesus. Arabs through Mohammed. But the Jews and the Christians began to disagreed. He started taking these stories about the Old Testament and about Jesus and began to mix them with his own direct revelations and began to retell their stories with new spins spins he claimed that God had given him eg Joseph they were highly offended. Koran Noah, Moses, Ab, Joseph his take is very different. How did he know these characters at all the assumption is that he learnt about them in his time in Medina but he merged his revelations with these stories they were offended. We don t acknowledge you as a prophet. In 624 2 years later while he was in Medina he began to attract more and more attention political leaders, judge, many poorer tribes came to him, In 624 one day during prayer he announced that we will from now on face Mecca we no longer see ourselves as those attached to Judaism and Christendom. From now on we are our own people. This was a break from the past. TWO ATTITUDES TO JEWS AND CHRISTIANS IN THE QURAN: 1) Early years in mecca - Koran a quote he saw no clash between - Do not argue with the followers of the revelation otherwise in the most kindly manner we believe in that which has been bestowed from high upon them as well as that which has been bestowed upon you for our God and your God is one and the same and it is unto him that we surrender ourselves. It was more of the same. 2) Later years in medina Sura 5 take no friends from among the Jews and the Christians for if you do you will bring their condemnation upon you. As we will see his clash was primarily with the Jews so most of the more antagonistic verses in the Koran are directed to the Jews.
Something else happened in medina an agricultural community He developed a raiding party it was like a sport raid by the rules you couldn t kill or hurt people and you couldn t raid someone you knew along with being a spokesman for God, he was a very talented military leader that led people to raid their caravans to and from Mecca. He enriched himself they rejected him he became wealthy from them. The Meccans hired an army but still Mo was successful anyway. The Meccans did a full scale attack 627 a very sign battle took place 10000 Meccan soldiers came to attack Mo. Mo had 3000 people he should have been annihilated through his prowess but some would say God s blessing the battle on the trench he routed the army. He was a spiritual, military and political leader. This accelerated loyalty to him. Soon after battle of Trench an event that has been spoken of since by Islamic historians he discovered that many Jewish tribes were working with Meccans to overthrow him. First, he expelled two Jewish tribes. Then he discovered a third Jewish tribe who were planning to overthrow him so he pre-emptively attacked them he killed all the men (700-900 men) and enslaved woman and children. How could he do that? Think of king David - Having defeated the Meccan army, he was now established with no one to come against him. He was the reformer of that day. Later he marched on Mecca when they saw the size of his army and welcomed him in as their leader. He took down every pagan shrine and idol and he established Islam of the important city of Mecca. He brought all these disenfranchised into one cohesive group around a leader, a ideology, a religion. 2 years later he became ill and he died. Since then what happened upon his death 632 people speculated what happened. After his death people argued who leads one group said that he appointed Ali his cousin alone - bloodline his cousin another group picked 3 other caliphs, not family members and Ali. A split Sunni/ Shiite - That division continues today and is the root-division that feeds much of the present conflict in Iran and Iraq! That s the life of the most NB person who ever lived. A lot more of course.
That info is available to all of us. An extraordinary leader launched a religion didn t need to be propped up by Judaism and Christianity. What Christians and Muslims have in common 1) Some people a minority have hijacked the religion and have used it to justify atrocities. Crusades / Alqaeda although there are some. There are some aggressive texts like 9:5 - slay the idolaters wherever you find them moderate Muslims like the one in our country explain that it needs to be understood in the context of the war against Mohammed and his followers the standard posture of the Muslim is governed by texts like 5:32 whoever slays a man without reason slays all humanity. 2) We believe that the Scriptures are God s Word in his early years Mohammed spoke often of how the Jews and the Christians should continue to trust the Scriptures they had since they were God s Word. Long before the Prophet Muhammad, Allah revealed the Torah and the Gospel for mankind's guidance (3: 3, 4, 48, 65*) and light. (5: 46*). Observing the Torah and the Gospel brings nourishment from above (5: 66*). 3) We believe that God is One. 4) We believe there is a day called Judgment Day where God will deal with everyone individually. 5) We believe that we re meant to live our lives before the Audience of One who looks not only at our deeds, but also our motivations who looks at us not only what we do in public but also in private. 6) We believe God wants us to live lives of devotion where we pray, give and give to the poor, and fast from time to time 7) We share many common beliefs about Jesus 25 references 2. Allah gave to the world Jesus, exalted him above all others, and supported him with the Holy Spirit as proof of his sovereignty (2: 253*). 3. Allah caused the miracle birth of John the Baptist to the aged Zechariah and his barren wife so John could be the messenger to announce Jesus as the Messiah (3: 33-41*). 4. Allah appointed Mary to be the virgin mother of Jesus, the Messiah (3: 42-45; 19: 12-22; 21: 90*). 5. Jesus would be righteous [sinless] all his life (3: 46; 6: 86; 19: 19*).
9. Allah taught Jesus his religion and commanded Jesus to establish it (42: 13; 43: 63*). 10. Allah caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow [the prophets], gave him the Gospel, and placed compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him (57: 27*). Allah strengthened the group of Jews who believed Jesus and his message, so they overcame those who disbelieved (61: 14*). 14. Allah did many miracles through Jesus including raising the dead, healing the sick and cleansing the leper (3: 48, 49*). 15. Allah gathered Jesus and caused him to be resurrected and ascended to Allah himself (3: 55; 4:158*). What differences there are maybe, I can help Muslims to understand why believe what we believe each time, I d like to respectfully As a Christian, in my conversations with Muslim friends and people over the years, and in my readings of books and websites, and my watching of lots of youtube clips I have experienced the same general line from Muslims: 1) They affirm that I am a person of the Book. 2) As a pastor I get respect because I am at least a devoted Christian 3) They ask why I don t embrace Mohammed as the final prophet too I am so close; I have Jesus, why not just take the next step and trust in Mo 4) They express some concerns about some wrong beliefs that I as a Christian have namely that the Bible is fully trustworthy, that Jesus is divine, that that Jesus is the Saviour. Let me take 10 minutes explaining why after much thought over the years I haven t embraced these arguments Why, after reading the Quran, and appreciating what parts of it concur with my faith, I cannot bring myself to embrace some of the major claims of Islam 1) I cannot agree with my Muslim friends when they say the Bible has been changed. a. The Quran mainly directed at Jews and only one occasion at Christians 5:14 says that Jews and Christians have distorted the Scriptures we have. But it is not clear whether this means we changed the text itself, or whether we placed an incorrect interpretation of the text. Muslims scholars are disagreed. However, whatever the changes the Quran says that they are minimal, since the Torah and the Gospel are God s Word. b. Yet, many Muslims attack the Scriptures more strongly than Mohammed did:
c. Some say it is full of contradictions. 1) There are apparent contradictions which can be explained it is the same with the Quran where there are many such contradictions imagine I said, Su 2:56 2:91 no compulsion / there is! 3:85 / 4:1 back and forth! d. Some say it has been changed in translation. i. Of course, only the original language is truly inspired we need careful translation, none of our translations is infallible but the same is true of Islam. e. Some say it was changed by the Roman church in 300s. i. We have 24000 ancient documents, many of which were were written long before AD 325 when Rome boosted the status of Christianity to a respected religion in the empire! See Tough Qs. f. Taxi driver in Melbourne read the Injil I have read it but have you read the Injil? Allah commands Christians to obey the Gospel that Jesus has brought them. 2) I cannot agree with my Muslim friends when they say God is not Father. a. In Islam, the general picture is of us as slave, and God as our Master. There are mentions of the fact that friendship with Allah is possible. But It specifically condemns calling God Father, and ourselves children. b. Yet the Injil tells us that God is a Father. J.I Packer on the importance of knowing God as Father: You sum up the whole of New Testament teaching in a single phrase, if you speak of it as a revelation of the Fatherhood of the holy Creator. In the same way, you sum up the whole of New Testament religion if you describe it as knowledge of God as one s holy Father. If you want to judge how well a person understands Christianity, find out how much he makes of the thought of being God s child, and having God as his Father. If this is not the thought that prompts and controls his worship and prayers and his whole outlook on life, it means that he does not understand Christianity very well at all. For everything that Christ taught, everything that makes the New Testament new, and better than the Old, everything that is distinctively Christian as opposed to merely Jewish, is summed up in the knowledge of the Fatherhood of God. Father is the Christian name for God - Knowing God P 224 3) I cannot agree with my Muslim friends when they say Jesus is not God visiting the world in human form. a. Many Muslims, when they hear we believe Jesus is the Son of God, react because they think that God had sex with a woman. But that is not what we believe like the Muslims we believe in the miraculous conception the virgin birth. b. The Quran attacks the belief that God took a son 19:88-92 yet we don t believe that either. Taking a son refers to God deifying a human being. We believe the opposite It is not like God made a human God. We believe God made himself for a time a human. c. Muslims often say that is not possible that God took on human form, since he is great and exalted. To which I respond: There are two kinds of
greatness. On the one hand, there is the greatness of a king who has many servants who do his bidding. On the other hand there is the greatness of a king who dresses as an ordinary civilian for a time, and walks among his people, to see and feel their suffering, to bring them a message of hope. We believe that God is great on both counts as a king who deserves our worship and obedience, and as a king who once walked amongst us and felt our suffering, and brought us a message of hope. There is a made up story of a man who saw that a colony of Ants were in trouble a combine harvester was soon to destroy them so he warned them verbally but they could not hear him he was too great. Then he started to cry, saying to himself, If only I were an ant then I could tell them face to face. Amazing at it may seem that is exactly what the Bible tells us happened: Heb 1:1-3 d. The Quran attacks the belief in three gods which according to 5:116 seems to refer to the worship of God, Jesus and Mary. We don t believe that either. We don t believe in three Gods either. The doctrine of the Trinity the word is not in the Bible but it summarizes many truths in the Bible: There is one God. This one God is a Father. This one God took on human form, Jesus. This one God visits us by the Spirit. And yet, mysteriously the Father is distinguishable from Jesus and the Spirit. And Jesus is distinguishable from the Spirit. He is a God who is one, and yet reveals himself to us as three Father, Christ and Spirit! I can t understand this but I experience it all the time. I know God as Father. I know God as Christ. And I know God as Spirit. e. Muslims says that Jesus never claimed to be God. Then why was Jesus crucified Muslims say God put another in his place. Even if that were true why was Jesus condemned to be crucified? What was the charge? The Romans did not find him guilty of Treason. That can t be it. We re told that the Jews found him guilty of blasphemy. What blasphemy? John 8:58 the Jews wanted to stone him because he said of himself, Before Abraham was, I am. He gives himself the very name of God! f. Lastly, Isa 7:14 the prophecy told us that the virgin will be with child, and his name will be Immanuel which means God with us the prophecy continues and in Isa 9 we re told that this coming son, to be born of this virgin his name would Mighty God and that his kingdom would be an everlasting one. As Christians we believe that this is exactly what happened God fulfilled this prophecy by taking on a human body! 4) I cannot agree with my Muslim friends when they say that Jesus did not die on the cross for the sins of those who trust in him. a. One of the most well attested facts of history is that Jesus who lived 2000 years ago was crucified. He himself prophesied that it would be so Mark 10:45 he was giving himself as a ransom for many. God was taking our sin, putting on the sinless Jesus, and punishing it there. b. The Quran never even once condemns the belief that Jesus is the Saviour. It does not mention it at all. Instead, later Muslims say, How can one man substitute all of us? It cannot be true. I remind you that the concept of substitution is in the Koran. Think of Abraham s sacrifice of his son most
Muslims claim was Ismael not Isaac. Just before he is about to sacrifice him the Quran says - For this was obviously a trial - And we ransomed him with a momentous sacrifice..." (Surah 37:99-107). This refers to how God provided a substitute a ransom instead of Ab s son dying, a lamb dies. c. We all deserve to be slayed because of our sin all the sin we had ever done! Yet Christ took the punishment we ourselves deserve. 5) I cannot agree with my Muslim friends when they say that salvation comes from the scales. Surah 23:1-2 - Then those whose balance of good deeds is heavy they will attain salvation. Those whose balance is light. They will lose their souls in hell will they abide. Another verses says that good deeds blot out evil deeds. At the beginning of life you live and day by the scales! Everything either goes on the good or the bad scales. You have to be 51% righteous. This is the straight path. Tell me the accounting. You can see the angst we re dealing with, You hope you do more good than bad. But you re not sure. It s a guessing a game. Birth erases the scales post 9/11 even if there Muslims who disagree and many of you Muslims will disagree roughly about 85% will agree to die as a martyr in a declared fatwah in an act of Jihad. Think of the aeroplane hijackers of 9/11 the night before they died some slept with prostitutes. Why because they knew that the following day their sacrifice would wipe away the scales. Jesus came to wipe away the scales! It is not good people who get to heaven; because none of us is good enough it is forgiven people! The hour I first believed was the hour I knew my sins were forgiven, and I had been accepted as God s child!! "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, That saved a wretch like me... I once was lost but now am found, Was blind, but now, I see. T'was Grace that taught... my heart to fear. And Grace, my fears relieved. How precious did that Grace appear... the hour I first believed. Some Muslims argue, That is our problem with Xnity you claim to be forgiven, and yet you make no effort to be righteous and godly. I agree that is a problem many Christians disobey the Scripture that says, Do not use God s grace as an opportunity
to sin! My experience is that God s grace made me want to obey from the depth of my heart out of gratitude and love. Think about that In Islam, I obey and then God accepts me. In Christianity I am accepted and then I obey. In Islam I first need to love God and then, because I love him, I he loves me. In Christianity God first loves me and then because he loves me I love him back. This is love relationship I have with God as my Father that is made possible through the death of Jesus, and is empowered by the presence of the Holy Spirit this is too precious for me to let go of. My Muslim brother it is my privilege to be your friend - we must respect each other; we must have honest conversation; we must work together for justice in our city but we cannot say that we believe in the same God. They are similar, but different in very fundamental ways.